Trust in Marriage: Are We as Strong as We Think?

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Hello and welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We're Dave and Ashley Willis. On this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And we're in a series talking about that intimacy word. What is it? Last week we kind of did a broad explanation of the three types of intimacy in marriage, which are emotional intimacy, sexual physical intimacy, and spiritual intimacy. So if you missed that, that's a good foundation for what we're talking about today. Today we're continuing that on talking about communication and trust in marriage, because intimacy is more than just talking and being present. It's communicating love and trust. And we want to help you restore trust if it's been broken and build unbreakable trust in your marriage. Because really, trust is the foundation of a healthy marriage. So many folks that write us are having issues or struggles. Really, it's a trust issue majorly. And so we want to unpack that.

That's right. Make sure you stick around to the very end because we're going to tell you one way. You are breaking your spouse's trust without even knowing it and what you can do about it. And guys, as always, please review and follow us. If you're on Apple Podcasts, you can hit the follow button at the top of our show page. And guys, this is the best way to get the word out about Naked Marriage Podcast. It also brings us up on the charts, which is good for the podcast in general. So please do that. If you guys are a fan, please go and do that. And also, you won't miss an episode.

Yeah. And also, if you're never watching these episodes, I want to challenge you to go over to YouTube, click subscribe. Follow to the Dave and Ashley Willis YouTube page, where all these episodes are video format. And we put a lot of bonus content there as well. It's not just the podcast. Check it out. Also, one last thing before we dive in. I want to give you guys a free resource.

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That's right. Okay, so we're going to talk about trust, okay? And we're going to start out with the power of presence. Like, you can't build trust with your spouse if you're not gonna be present. Now, what do we mean by that? We mean be physically present. I mean, it's really hard to have a great marriage and cultivate intimacy and trust without being there for your spouse. But it's more than that, you guys. I mean, we love the digital world. We love social media. We love all the different gadgets that we can have today. I mean, I love that we're living in a world where we can be more connected than ever. But I feel like one of the downfalls of this is we might be more digitally connected than ever, but. But we are not really present, right?

Yeah, it's true.

And we've struggled with this. You guys have heard us on previous podcasts talk about us challenging each other to put our phones down. I mean, I have my phone right here because I have some notes on here that I sometimes reference for the podcast. But I can get lost on TikTok. I can get lost in Instagram, and I'm not even, like, looking at bad stuff. I mean, I'm learning how to, like, reorganize my pantry. I'm learning, you know, some new exercise techniques or whatever it is. But, you know, he's more important than this phone right here. And your spouse is more important than their Phone. And I'm not saying that's the only thing that can keep us from being present, but some of you watching this and listening to this, or maybe like I'm present. I mean, I work from home. Like I'm there all the time. Like, what, what, what more would my spouse want? And I would say I get it, we both work from home. But there's been times where we've been challenged. Like we're, we're working together all day long and we're with our kids more than you know, then we're not with them. But are we really praying?

You know, we can be in the same room, but two different worlds.

Exactly.

Multitasking, looking on screens, doing other things and still kind of halfway having a conversation with each other.

Right. Just being distracted.

Yeah.

And when we're distracted, we're not present. And I'm not saying we can't do these things, but there's a balance. And we need to have mindfulness because mindfulness enhances connections. Now what do we mean by this? We hear this all the time. Mindfulness has become like the new age. People have kind of claimed that word, but it's not a new age concept. Right, sweetie?

No. Being mindful, every good idea is God's idea.

Exactly. You know, being mindful is having another way of saying it is presence of mind. Like just being aware of your surroundings, of where your mind is going and just having, you know, really those, those little check ins with God even. You know, I love it how David in the Bible, he talks about like God, search my heart. I mean, that's really having mindfulness towards, you know, following the Lord. And in the same way we need to have mindfulness towards, you know, are we connecting with our spouse? Are we really present with our spouse? And I think, you know, really just taking an evaluation. I think we do it individually but also collectively about where we are in this. And I think a good exercise would be to say, hey, do you feel like I'm present? Do you feel like when I'm in the same room with you that I'm present when? Or do you feel like I'm home enough? Do you feel like we're together enough and really listening to what your spouse thinks about that? Because their answer might surprise you and.

Not being defensive if you hear an answer.

Absolutely.

You know, like, well, what do you mean? I mean, I'm doing this and I'm working hard and I'm, you know. And you do this. No, it's like, guys, be a safe place for each other.

Exactly.

To be able to share those truths, even the difficult ones to hear, and make sure that you're both being. Being mindful, you're being intentional. I mean, just the fact that you're listening or watching to this podcast right now, you're mindfully investing in your marriage. And so good for you. Right. You're taking the time to invest into a resource to be a better spouse, to be more present, to build trust or to rebuild trust in your marriage. And so good for you. Yeah, I mean, so pat yourself on the back. But it's a daily process. I need to consistently keep doing these things because that's what builds trust. Kind of transitioning into the trust aspect of our conversation, which is why you're listening, most likely. That is so foundational. Our ministries founder Jimmy Evans has said, trust is built in drops and lost in buckets. And I just love that metaphor because it's true that it's the consistency. You can only build it a drop at a time, one day at a time, one act at a time, one word at a time. But in one careless moment, we can dump out a whole bucket load of trust. And maybe that's happened in your marriage. Maybe you're listening right now and you're thinking, man, we had trust. Or I thought we had trust. But now there are holes in that trust bucket because of words that have been said, actions that have happened, or I caught my spouse doing this or looking at this online or lying about this purchase or whatever it is. And how do we get that? How do we get that back? Well, we communicate first and foremost with sincerity and transparency. You can't have any secrets for there to be trust and intimacy in marriage. You know, secrecy is the enemy of intimacy. If you are keeping secrets from your spouse, you are sabotaging the intimacy in your marriage. Whatever the secrets might be, it could be secret passwords, secret purchases, secret web searches, secret conversations, secret motives. You know, whatever you're keeping secret from your spouse is ultimately going to sabotage that intimacy. Because for there to be intimacy, there has to be transparency. There has to be complete trust. And so shine the light on anything that you're tempted to keep in the dark. Bring that out into the open, and that's going to create an atmosphere where trust can really be built.

It's so true. And I think, how do we communicate trust? We communicate it by first being honest ourselves, by always, you know, choosing honesty over any kind of secret or over any kind of. Like, I think sometimes we get around this by withholding, by not withholding anything like Well, I mean, it's not that I'm lying to them. Like, I'm not keeping a. Like, I'm not telling them a lie, but I'm withholding part of it. Like, sometimes they'll be like, well, it's not a total secret. I just didn't tell them all the details. Like, I didn't tell them every part of it.

Sin of omission.

Yes, omission.

But it's got to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. The whole truth is the part there. If you're leaving stuff out to lead them in the wrong direction, that's dishonesty.

It is. And it's manipulative, too. And that's not going to build intimacy. But I think communicating trust is giving your spouse your eyes and your ears. And when you're talking to them, not just being on your phone, if you're watching, you see, like, a lot of us talk like this, and we don't, you know? And I know. I mean, hey, maybe you're looking something up and that's part of the conversation. But if you're literally. And I've seen. Okay, and I'm sure we've been guilty of this over the years. I've seen couples out on a date night, literally just the whole time, like, not even looking at each other, and.

Say, we went on a date. Why aren't we closer? Like, you know, we.

And then they're like, what are we missing? Why did that not feel good?

You're dating TikTok and you're dating.

Exactly.

Dating. That games on your phone and, well, imagine. And I play this. I'm on the phone, too. Like, I'm not. You guys are on. Phones can be good. You're listening to a podcast, probably on your phone right now. That's a great use of that technology. We all have these supercomputers in our pockets that are so powerful for good things, but they can just be such a powerful distraction.

They can I mean, just, like, visualize you and your spouse are in a booth, and all of a sudden, you know, you guys get on your phones and start scrolling, and all these people join your booth, and you're just, like, suffocated by the clutter and the distraction and, like, the loudness, and it's not having that presence of mind and that connecting. And I will say that when we're constantly distracted, it doesn't build trust because you're like, well, what's so important that you're looking at your phone? I will also say this how you communicate trust is not being weird about your phone, about anything. Weird, like keeping things from your spouse, like never having topics off limits. Like, I know over the years we've met with couples where this was. The issue is they're like, well, my work is my work and I'm not going to talk about work. And I remember we were talking to a couple years ago, and it wasn't that there was something bad going on at this guy's work, it wasn't that he was having an affair. It wasn't like there was some flirtation or anything. He really just did not want to talk about work with his wife because he didn't enjoy his job. And he was like, why would I want to bring that home? But it made her feel like, there's something you're not telling me.

He's shutting me out.

He's shutting me out.

Like the biggest part of his schedule.

Right.

And I don't have access to that part of him.

Yes, right.

Yeah. And she needs the security of knowing that she has full access to every part of your mind, heart schedule. She wants to know what's happening in your head. And men tend to compartmentalize more. And it's like, no, I got work life, this life. But guys, you gotta let your wife in. She needs to know what's happening throughout your day. You need to check in with her, you need to share the struggles with her. And there have been seasons in our marriage where I fell into that trap of not wanting to talk about work.

Struggles because you're like, it was a terrible day.

I don't want to, I don't want to relive it. I'd rather just. But I realized that I needed the wisdom and the insight that she would provide. But more than that, I needed to let Ashley know that, no, you have full access to everything that I'm thinking, doing, feeling. And for you to know you have that kind of full access, I've got to be able to talk about all of these things.

That's so true. And I think too, if trust has been broken in the past for various reasons and you all have come through that, hopefully, if you haven't, we have a lot of resources on how to do that. But you've come through that and you're on the other side. But you really, you know, you don't want to go back there. The way you can communicate trust is by having frequent check ins and saying like, hey, like, you know, pornography is in our past. Like that's something that Dave really struggled with. And we have a ton of episodes on that. If you haven't heard about our testimony, and we talk about it every chance we get, but you know, something we do is we, I will check in and be like, hey, has that been a temptation? Or, you know, where's your mind? How is that going? You know, you check in with each other and it's important to do that. And if you're not willing to get, when your spouse checks in, you are throwing out some of that trust bucket. You're not building that trust. And so it's just really important to give our, you know, attention with our face, but also not being secretive about our devices or any relationships in our life, even if it's same sex friendships. I mean, anytime you're not willing to share an aspect of your life with your spouse, it does not build trust and therefore breaks down the intimacy. And I know some of you right now, like you're thinking, but Ashley, can I not just have something of my own? Like, we've heard this before, right? Can I not just have something of my own? I get that we're still individuals in marriage. You know, unity doesn't mean uniformity. But honestly, guys, when you're married, there just is no room for having secret accounts, secret relationships, secret things that we have in our life. Because that is where the enemy gets a foothold. That is where that's like the, the weeds that start cropping up in your life, choking the life out of your marriage and your intimacy. And so I promise you, I mean, I. You challenge me on this. Try it, try it this way. Try it this way where you don't have anything off limits in your life with your spouse. And then tell me you don't have more intimacy, because I'm telling you, it works.

It really does. And I know that scares people sometimes if they haven't lived that way, they're like, whoa, hang on a second. Like, that's, that's really vulnerable and scary, like Ashley just said. But imagine what your marriage could look like if you did have that. Like, imagine. Imagine being fully known by someone and fully knowing them in return. Imagine not having to feel the need to hide anything. It's all open, and that's a naked marriage. That's what God wants you to have. And if you're settling for anything short of that, then you're robbing your spouse and robbing yourself of the real joys of true intimacy and true trust. So we want to continue on the trust conversation by talking specifically about restoring trust once it's been broken. And I know just from, gosh, from the years and years we've been doing this, that when this happens, when trust is broken, I know from our own marriage, when I broke Ashley's trust with that secret pornography sin that I kept hidden early in our marriage, I know how devastating that can be for both spouses and how delicate it can be as you start working through the process of rebuilding the trust that's been wounded. And I also know that there's a good chance that the reason why you're listening to this episode in the first place is this aspect. You're like, guys, come on, get to the Rebuilding trust.

Yeah, because we're broken right now.

Yeah, we're broken. We're hurting. What do we do? So first, let's talk to the person who broke the trust. And hopefully if that's you, you're open, you're repentant for what happened. Repentant just means that you're willing to turn from that way of behavior back towards doing things the right way, doing things God's way. You're seeking forgiveness and you're working actively. Part of true apology and repentance is working actively to restore what's been broken. So what do you say to that?

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That person first, the one who broke the trust, man.

First and foremost, don't allow shame to set in, okay? Because shame is something that is not meant to be. One book I read many years ago, it says shame is not a staying place, like if it in the short term can bring you to conviction and repentance. For those of you who don't understand what that means, conviction is like, oh my gosh, what I'M doing is wrong. Odds are you've already felt that, like, this is wrong as a Christian, this is wrong towards God. And then as a spouse, this is wrong towards my spouse. You know, that's conviction. But then we move to repentance, which is turning away from the sin towards God and moving and walking out from it, avoiding that temptation, putting boundaries in place so that we don't keep falling back into the same sin. And then we walk in freedom, right? And it's a process. This isn't just like, oh, this just happened one day. And then we consistently keep on living out that repentance, and then we have to rebuild the trust, right? And I would say, you know, so don't stay in shame. You know, don't. Don't keep beating yourself up. Don't believe the lie. Like, well, now my punishment is that I have to live with this and beat myself up. That's not at all of God. You know, we, over the years have met with couples where they really believe this for a long time. And one spouse was, like, maybe unfaithful or was hiding money or something, you know, or flirtatious online or whatever it was. And they convinced themselves, like, they maybe ended it a while back, but then they're like, well, I don't really need to tell my spouse because I've prayed about it and I've, you know, sought counsel over it, and I don't want to hurt him or her, so I'm just going to kind of beat myself up. It's my cross to bear, you know. No, like, Jesus went to the cross to forgive us. We're not meant to hold onto this. Like, that's not the path that he set before us. We want to walk in freedom, right? He wants us to walk in freedom. And so that means that we have to do that hard next step. Once we know we're wrong, we've done something wrong. The right thing to do is first bring it to the Lord and confess it. And the second thing is, as a married person, we have to confess it to our spouse. And confession is scary. It's very scary. But it's such a freeing act, too. And I know sometimes people don't confess because they're like, well, isn't it cruel that it would be freeing to me and hurtful to him or her? Like, I've heard people say that, like, well, isn't it the kinder thing just to hold on to this and me not have peace in my life? And I would say, I get where you're coming I get the logic of that, but it's misguided thinking. And it's also a beautiful prison that the enemy wants to keep you in. And it also is very prideful, and it's also manipulated towards your spouse. And I know you're like, man, Ashley, you're bringing down the hammer, but I'm telling you, I know. Like, we know what it's like. Like, Dave knows. Especially when it comes back to the porn. I know, too. I mean, I'm a broken person. Like, I know those thoughts that can keep you. Like, no, I just need to keep it to myself. And I remember you saying, like, I felt like I was in a prison. Like, you said, I felt like. And you were convinced, well, she couldn't handle it. And that would be so mean to tell her about that. I don't want her to know because. Not just to save me from having consequences, but I don't want her to know because I'd hurt her. And I would tell you, you owe it to your spouse to be honest. And yes, it will be hurtful. Anytime there's a breach of trust, it's hurtful. But that is where God, when we bring what's. What's happened in the dark, the sin that's happened in the dark out into the light, it will ultimately give freedom to you both, because that's where you can actually get the healing that needs to happen.

Yeah. And so don't stay in that. That prison. Yeah. You know, don't say in that beautiful prison because your marriage is really a mirage. Yeah, you're living in a lie. If you're living. If you're carrying this big. This big secret that your spouse has a right to know, and they have a right to know every. Every secret. There should be no secrets in marriage. And yeah, I know that the enemy would like to get you to think, oh, my gosh, like, everything would collapse if this came out. But the truth is, a painful truth is always better than a hidden lie. It's always better to share that painful truth than to hold on to a lie and be just comfortable punishing yourself for it or keeping it compartmentalized or convincing yourself, my spouse doesn't really need to know about this. It would only hurt them. But the truth is everything in marriage has to come out into the open. And, yeah, I know that you would do anything to go back and change it, change the fact that it happened in the first place, but you can't do that. But what you can do is do the right thing now. And the right thing now is to apologize, to confess. Like, listen, I've kept this from you. I shouldn't have. I'm so sorry. I know that this, this is going to hurt you to hear. It devastates me to have to say it, but you have a right to know. And I want us to be able to have no secrets in our marriage. And so it will hurt at first, and it will create a healing process where you got to move forward slowly. And what does that look like, moving forward slowly when trust has been broken? Well, when trust has been broken, it's similar in a lot of ways to, like when an arm is broken, when. If you break your arm, for instance, first thing that has to happen is the bone has to be set right. It has to be set right in the place that it needs to be. Then it needs to be covered in a cast to hold it steady and still. And then you have to voluntarily give up certain freedoms for a while while that bone is healing. Now, the rebuilding trust process follows kind of the same pattern. When trust is broken, you have to set things right. Just like the bonus set right. You have to confess. You have to put things right as they need to be. You put the cast around it, meaning you put boundaries of protection around yourself to make sure that you don't fall back into that same sin. And then you voluntarily, not as a punishment, but as a protection. You voluntarily give up certain freedoms for a while. Just like with a cast on, you can't take a shower anymore unless you got a trash bag over it. You have to maybe take a bath. You have to do things differently. You can't get it wet. Those aren't punishments. Those are protections. In marriage, when that trust is broken, you might have to, like, completely limit your access to going certain places or being around certain people. Or you might need to give up your phone for a while. I don't know what it's going to look like, depending on the nature of the issue that caused the breach of trust, that voluntarily restrict your freedoms for a while so that trust can be rebuilt because it's delicate at first. And that's not a punishment. Again, that's a protection for both you and your spouse. And you need to talk together about what that looks like and how to navigate that together. And a good Christian counselor is often a healthy part of this process. To help you both figure out what that should look like, our team of mediators here at Exomarriage are an amazing resource to help you with that. You can go to xomarriagehelp.com and find out more about that. But the bottom line is, you don't have to figure it out all on your own. There are resources and tools available, and we want to come alongside you and help.

That's right. And we want to talk now about the person who's been wronged. I think. And I know we spent a lot of time talking about the person who maybe committed the sin and broke the trust. But it's important. You know, I want to say first and foremost, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry this is going on in your marriage. It can rock your world. And, you know, we tend to hold our spouses on pedestals, and it really comes crashing down, and then we start doubting things. Like, it's understandable if maybe there was one sin they committed, one thing they kept from you. But then all of a sudden, you find yourself thinking, well, what else are you keeping from me? What else are you not telling me? And can I ever trust you again? I mean, we start. We have almost a grief process. I mean, what we don't realize is we experience grief for a lot of different reasons. And even through my counseling work that I've done, I'm getting ready to have my master's in counseling. And it talks a lot about in all my classes, like, in. In any area where things that once were can no longer be, like, it's forever changed. We tend to, as human beings, go through a grieving process. And so what I found, like, even when we were walking through the pornography issue, there was a bit of a grief process that I went through where I. I was so devastated that really, the Dave and Ashley, you know, that married on our wedding day was no longer. Now that this had come to light. But what I learned in that process is I had to grieve what once was, but I also had to move forward and know that God still had good things for us. And that not only that, but now that this lie was out in the open and we were doing that act of rebuilding trust, that we actually could have a stronger marriage afterwards. Because this thing that had been kind of a poison in our marriage was now out. It was cut out. Like, you're talking about a broken bone. It's almost like a cancerous tumor.

Yeah, it's painful and messy to cut that out. Yes, you're healthier the moment it's out.

Exactly. You're healthier. But then you got to go through your pt, so to speak. You got to relearn how to be married. Like, what does this look like?

And everything hurts for a while.

Everything hurts, right? And so, you know, one thing is, as a spouse who was wronged, is we have to allow ourselves to experience the emotions. We don't push them down, we don't push them away. We don't just like, say, oh, okay, sorry, you wronged me. I'm going to move on. Because it's going to come back, you guys. We have to go through it. We don't go around it, we go through it. And so it's okay to sit in the anger. It's okay to sit in the frustration, the disgust, the worry, the doubt. Bring them to the Lord. Don't stay in it too long. Like, I mean, you know, you have to go through them. Don't allow this to stunt you like the enemy would love it, to stunt you and keep you from moving forward individually and as a couple. But really work through it. If you feel like, though some of these emotions are like a stumbling block and just like the grief process, it looks different for every person. You might need a counselor to come alongside you to process this and say, like, let's talk about that. Like, have a trusted friend or counselor in addition to your spouse that you can talk through this with. And, you know, as a person who was wrong, bring it to your spouse and say, like, I'm so mad at you today. I don't wanna feel this way, but I'm so mad at you. And I keep thinking, how could you do this? And I don't wanna feel that way, but I just want you to know where I am in my headspace. And the one who broke the trust needs to be there and really hear your spouse out and just continually say, like, I hear you and I'm so sorry. What can I do to help you today? Like, what can I do to help you? But I don't wanna leave it there because even though, you know, as we're talking to the spouse who was wrong, even though you were the one whose trust has been broken, it's important that you also. And this, again, this takes supernatural strength, okay? It's not in our human strength, but it's so important that through your prayer life, you really lean into God and you pray for your spouse, okay? You pray for your spouse not just to get over maybe the thing that was causing them to break the trust or, you know, whatever the situation is, but really pray for them in their healing process and then go to them and say, listen, you know, I'm grieving, I'm hurting, but I wanna be here for you too. Because we're in this together. Like, I don't like this. It's not what I chose. I'm still angry. I'm still frustrated. I'm sad, you know, But I am here. I'm in this together with you. And I know some of you watching and listening, you're like, that sounds crazy to me, but this is the godly Christian way. And we cannot do it without God. Like, we just can't. It doesn't make human sense. But he will give you that supernatural strength to just walk day by day. And I'm telling you, when you choose to face it together, because as we say on here all the time, it's never his problem or her problem. It's always our problem, even if it is a sin problem. You don't have to experience the personal consequences that your spouse is going to naturally experience, but. And you're not going to maybe have some of the boundaries they have, I mean, because they have to walk that road. But you're still in the marriage. And if you're choosing to stay married, even if it is infidelity, I mean, yes, you could walk away, but if you're choosing to stay married, you have to choose to walk through it together and really pray through it and allow God to provide you that strength. And I'm telling you, it will shock your socks off like it did mine years ago. Going through that time with the pornography, you know, Dave, whenever he talks about this, he always really gives me a lot of credit for being there. But I'm telling you, there were many days I didn't want to be there. There were many days I didn't want to look at him. But when I would pray, just somehow we were able to. I was able to come alongside you. And God provided us the way, and he provided us the strength on a daily basis. It wasn't like a. It was a long process, but little by little, you know, I first forgave Dave because we are called first to forgive. Not because we're saying it was okay, not because we're saying it didn't matter, but because God first forgave us. It's something that can only be given. But because I first chose to forgive him, I let go of that bitterness and I just gave it to God. Because God is the God. You know, God is a God who chooses the consequences for our actions. And I knew he was going to deal with Dave, and it's not my place to punish Dave, right? But after the forgiveness, I have to. That path of forgiveness allows Dave, you know, Allows the person who broke the trust to regain trust. Right. And trust can only be, you know, it's a process of being earned. It's not something you can just give. I mean, you have to earn it by your consistent actions, by what you say is matching up with what you do day after day after day. And he did that. And I'm so grateful. This is many years ago and we've been walking in that freedom.

Yeah, it's so true. So, guys, lean into what Ashley just said. I mean, forgiveness and trust, two different things. Forgiveness can't be earned. It can only be given freely because that's what God does for us. None of us deserve forgiveness, the grace that he gives us, but he gives it freely. We have to give it freely. But trust, on the other hand, can't be given. It has to be earned or re earned if it's been broken. But this proven path for rebuilding it with consistency and vulnerability and transparency, it will get you both there.

And it builds intimacy.

It absolutely builds intimacy.

It's amazing. You can even be closer on the other side of it. So don't give up.

Don't give up. Well, guys, hey, at the beginning, we promised you there's maybe one way that you're breaking your spouse's trust without even knowing it. And we want to talk about what that is. And I think that there could be many ways, and each marriage is different, but one of the most common we've seen is in having passwords on your devices that your spouse doesn't have them. Not feeling they have access to your phone really shows them that they don't really fully have access to your heart because it's like, you know, the Bible says, where your treasure is, there your heart will be. Also, as much time as we spend on our phones, that's like our treasure. And you're not giving that treasure, your spouse, access to that treasure. So make sure that they have full access to every part of your life, including your passwords, your bank account, like all of it. If there's anything in your life that you think is mine, they don't have access to it. That's wounding your spouse.

It is. And if you want more on this, you can check out an article we have on this called Can I check my spouse's Phone? We'll put the link in the description. Thank you all so much for joining us. And we will be here next, next Monday. You don't want to miss it. We're going to be talking about spicing things up in the bedroom. I know you all been waiting for this. This is Dave's favorite intimacy topic. I told you we would be talking about sex. Don't worry. And don't forget to get Our free resource 10 unhealthy types of in laws by clicking on the link in the description. We will see you next time.