Who's Your Daddy?

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Welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we are in such an exciting season in the marriage ministry we're doing as part of the team at Marriage Today. We're in the middle of what we call the XO Conference season where we are traveling around doing the exo marriage conferences at sites all over the country and we would love to invite you and your spouse, of course, to come to one of our live events. So if you go to xomarriage.com, you can get all the information. We've got a great, great topic for you today. We're going to be talking about just that dynamic that can sometimes happen that creates a negative dynamic where one spouse becomes more like a parent than a spouse. And we'll unpack that as we go. Plus stick around to the end. We've got a great question at the end of today's episode that have to do with some difficult in law dynamics and I think that it's really going to help you out if you have any situations like that happening in your family. But first, my brilliant and beautiful bride Ashley, who has her sexy reading glasses on, is going to read a recent review. And thank you guys by the way for all the great reviews you're leaving on itunes and other places as well.

Yes, thank you all so much. I mean this is the best way if you love this podcast and you want other people to know about it, the best way you can do that is by leaving a five star review and just letting people know why you love it. So thank you to those of you who've already done that. Today I'm gonna share one from Kade and Michelle and it's entitled Spiritual Eye Opener. It says I never hear Christian people talking about sex, much less linking it to biblical scripture. My marriage was about to strike out with divorce waiting up to bat. God put it in my heart to read the five love languages and I followed it with Yalls podcast and wow, my eyes are open now to the amazing way my marriage can be With God involved in leading it. My marriage is now better than ever. And me and my wife listen to you all and wait for new episodes every week. I can't believe it took me this long to realize the wrong way I was going in my marriage. Thank you guys so much for what y' all are doing. And please don't stop the great podcast. Kate and Michelle Hebert, thank you so much for leaving that review. And we're just, you know, it's like wind to our sails. Like, when you guys know that it's helping you, it just keeps us going. So thank you so much for sharing that with everybody. And we are going to dive into today's episode.

This is such a great topic today because the more we work with couples, the more we see that there can be a really unhealthy dynamic that can form. And it usually doesn't form intentionally, but it can form over time where one spouse kind of treats the other like they're a parent instead of a spouse. Or one spouse takes on the role of being a parent and kind of treating your spouse like a child, like it's your job to correct them, it's your job to lead them. And you're no longer functioning as partners and best friends and equals, but you're functioning in this weird power dynamic where one of you takes on the authority of like a parent child dynamic. And. And it could be in every part of the marriage, or it could be like in just one specific part of the marriage, like finances, you know, where one of you is like the dad given an allowance and the other one is just having to follow that lead. And whenever this happens, it always creates a lot of unhealthy side effects. And so we're going to talk about the way that a marriage is really supposed to look in partnership and how to identify and how to break out of that. That kind of parent child dynamic in marriage, which can happen in more ways than you realize. So even if you think that you're not falling into this, don't tune out just yet. Because I believe that there might be some circumstances we're gonna address where you say, oh, wow, that's us.

That's true. You know, I just wanna say this out front. I do think sometimes people fall into this innocently. And I think it can happen a multitude of different ways. And so, like, one way it might be that your spouse is going through a really hard season where they can't really take care of themselves as well as they. Nor like they're ill or they have an addiction or maybe they did something to hurt you. And so there's like this, there's a little bit of a different dynamic because you're working through and trying to heal. But what I want to say is I totally get how you can fall into this, but we have to resist it. And that's why we're doing an entire episode on this. Because when you do fall into it, it's really hard to get out of it. It's possible, but it becomes kind of your go to when it comes to communication. And it is so toxic. And I think some people fall into this too, by nitpicking. And I think they're like, well, I'm just making my spouse better. I need to make them sit up straighter. I need to make them make this thing the way that I like them to make it. I need to, you know, I'm forming them into a better spouse. But the truth is, really, it's about control. It's like you're just trying to control them. And it's so. Again, it's so easy to fall into this. And if you have a spouse that is more passive, it can really just become your go to. But what you don't realize, they're not saying anything. And so you're probably thinking like, well, they're not telling me they don't like it, and they're doing the things that I asked them to do, so it must not bother them. But the truth is, they just. It's kind of a way to bully your spouse. And maybe they're just afraid of the retaliation on the other end.

It's gosh. And when that happens and when you see it happening, there's a couple that we're around a lot. I'm not gonna reveal who this is, but there's a couple we're around a lot where the wife takes on that dynamic of constantly correcting the husband no matter what, no matter what he's doing, it's the wrong thing. And she's constantly correcting him. And when our boys are around that, because they're around this couple as well, every time we leave, I have to tell the kids, like, boys, listen, that dynamic you just saw is not healthy. It is not the way that marriage is supposed to be. And while we love these people, that is a broken dynamic. And they've been doing it for a long time, but that is completely broken. So never marry someone who talks to you that way and never talk to your future spouse that way, because marriage is a partnership, not a dictatorship. And again, it can happen innocently, even for this particular couple. I think a lot of it is blind spots on both sides. But this wife has the dominant personality, and she just kind of makes it her mission to nitpick everything the husband is doing. The Bible has a lot to say about this. In Proverbs, I love the verse that says it's better to sleep on the corner of a roof outside than to share a house with a nagging spouse. And so don't be that nagging spouse. That makes your spouse want to sleep on the roof of the house because they'd find more peace. Don't make it your mission to be your spouse's biggest critic, be their biggest encourager. And yes, in marriage, there sometimes have to be times where you have to have difficult conversations about potential changes that need to be made. But even in those, you have to approach it with respect, with partnership, with the humility of realizing that you have a lot to learn as well. And just because. Now hear me on this. Just because your spouse does some things differently than you do, it doesn't mean that they're wrong. They're just different. And so respect their differences. Stop trying to turn your spouse into a carbon copy of you. And that's the parenting dynamic. When a kid is little, we have to tell them what to do at first. We have to kind of put training wheels on their heart, so to speak, to help lead them in the right direction and give them rules to follow and correct them lovingly when they step out of line. But it's not your job to correct and discipline and parent your spouse. You have to approach these things with so much respect. And again, humility in meaning that I know I've got a lot to learn, too.

It's so true. And now I want to talk to kind of. We're going to shift the conversation a little bit. There's some couples where one spouse kind of wants to be like the child and they kind of want their spouse to tell them what to do because. Or maybe even serve them like a parent would serve a young child who can't really serve themselves. And that's toxic, too, because it's kind of in a one way for the. For the spouse who is kind of being more childlike. You're kind of using your spouse and taking advantage of them and expecting them to do all this. You know, we see this dynamic sometimes with husbands who just expect their wife to wait on them hand and foot. It doesn't usually make a good marriage. I mean, we've known. How many couples, sweetie, have we known where eventually it kind of. They crash because the wife finally One day snaps and is like, I can't take this anymore. I'm not your mother.

I'm done. Well, my mama would make her macaroni and cheese with extra butter. This doesn't taste right. Oh, my gosh, guys, if you ever want to have sex again, you do. Do not ever compare your wife to your mother in a way where you're trying to make your wife become more like your mother. She's your wife, not your mama, guys. And be thankful for that. Be thankful you got a mama, and be thankful you got a wife. And thank God every day they are two different people, very different people. And so don't try to make one the other. And so, yeah, that's huge. And likewise, ladies, don't look for your husband to be your daddy. You know, you already got one, and it's not your husband. What I mean by that is don't look for him to come in and rescue you and fix everything the way that a father would do for a young child. And, yeah, there are times that your husband wants to be the hero and let him be the hero and pat him on the back when he does. But ultimately, you can't always look to him to be in that kind of role, because again, over time, it's gonna create this unhealthy dynamic where you're not partners anymore. But all of a sudden, it's one caregiver and then one child in the relationship. And there's a reason why children can't or shouldn't get married. It's because, you know, they're not capable. So don't take on that child mentality in your marriage. So, again, this parent child dynamic we're talking about, it can happen in a number of different ways, and we've got to be vigilant to guard against all of them because none of them are healthy.

So true. And one particular area of marriage where we see this happen quite a lot is when it comes to finances. And I know Dave mentioned this at the beginning, but there's this notion of giving your spouse an allowance. Like, if one spouse is really good with money, they will sometimes arrange kind of the accounts in such a way where that other spouse who they consider not good with money won't even have access, full access to the account. So what they do instead is give them an allowance. But every time, guys, every single time we have worked with couples where they do this, it builds resentment. It is a breeding ground for secrets. It's a power trip for the one who's giving the allowance. And it really Holds the other spouse down. Now, listen to me for a minute. I do understand that there can sometimes be a dynamic where one spouse is much better with money, and that's okay. But there should never be a time where one, the spouse that is considered the one not very good with money should be kept in the dark. Maybe they don't, you know, have as much, you know, to say when it comes to budgeting, because maybe they're just not as fiscally minded. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't know what's coming in and going out. Because you are partners. You are both adults. There should never be one person in the marriage who is completely controlling the money and knows everything where the other one has no idea what's going on. Again, that's like parents and children. We don't tell our kids all the details of our finances because they're children and it's not really their business. But when it comes to marriage, it's absolutely both spouses business. And as partners, you need to be making all of those decisions together and looking at everything and not having any secrets about what's going on.

Yes. No secret, guys. That's why we call this the naked marriage. It's not just the physical intimacy. It's not just the, you know, sex. Naked marriage is about a lot more than that. It goes back to the Garden of Eden where God created the first couple. They were naked and unashamed. That nakedness is a picture of complete transparency and vulnerability. It's saying, I've got nothing to hide from you, and you've got nothing to hide from me. And we're going to walk through life together naked and unashamed, the Bible says, which means we're going to accept each other as we are. We're going to help each other be better, but we're never going to keep secrets. We're never going to hide from each other any part of ourselves from each other. And so if any part of your marriage isn't naked, then you need to get it naked. You need to get the secrets out. You need to share passwords, you need to share everything. And if you would be freaked out by the idea of your spouse picking up your phone and going through every aspect of it, then you've got issues, not them for wanting to know what's going on in your life, but you've got real issues for having things that you want to keep from them, right? So we've got to come to this place of recognizing that we've got to have full and total transparency and trust. It's the only way a marriage can really thrive. I also want to challenge the husbands for just a second. I think sometimes this whole parent dynamic can happen when a husband just wired up, as most men are. We're fixers. We want to fix stuff. If we see a problem, we want to fix it. And so if our wife's going through something and she's sharing about what she's going through, there's a natural tendency in us to instantly want to swoop in and fix and solve the problem. But what we don't realize, guys, is that for most of us, definitely in my marriage, the wife is already smarter than you. Right? She can come up with solutions, but to her, the way she's feeling about the problem is just as important, if not more important than the problem itself. And wanting to engage with you on an emotional level about what she's feeling about this situation is more important to her than just immediately finding a five step solution to solve it. And so you've got to be willing to engage with her right where she is to help her process what she's feeling and then together, together when she's ready to take that next step toward the solutions part of the issue and to work through that together. But if we just always swoop in and try to fix it, we think we're helping, but really what we're doing is we're showing some disrespect to our wife without meaning to, and we're taking on the I'm your daddy mentality and you're not her daddy and you need to be her partner and work with her and give her what she needs.

So true, sweetie. That's such a wise, a wise statement that can really change things. Because sometimes, like we said from the beginning of this podcast, I don't think, you know, we have blind spots. We may not even know that we've fallen into this negative dynamic. And so hopefully, if you're listening and you're like, that's me, I try to do that. You know, take this to heart and try to make those changes so that you have a better marriage.

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I want to shift the conversation a little bit to something that might be uncomfortable to talk about, but I think it's a real thing. I think sometimes people fall into this because they see it as their role to discipline their spouse or to punish their spouse in some way when something goes wrong. And this can be. And I know Dave's going to make a funny statement about this.

Well, I'm just laughing cause you said discipline. And I'm thinking like, well, spanking can be fun so it doesn't have to be discipline.

I'm not talking about like bedroom separate episode. But I'm talking. And we do have other episodes about this, but I'm talking about like when you feel like, oh, my spouse isn't doing what I want them to do. So I'm gonna just, I'm gonna give them kind of my emotional version of timeout and I'm just gonna give them the cold shoulder. And when they ask me what's wrong, I'm not gonna tell them because they're in a timeout in my mind. I. And so we kind of do these little mind tricks and these games to each other and manipulate one another and really it's a form of punishment and we see ourselves as kind of this disciplinarian and we've put ourselves. And so we, you know, we're very self righteous about it. Like, oh well, when they start doing what I think they should be doing, then I'll talk to them. But guys, what that creates is just a totally cold environment in the home and a huge disconnect between spouses. And so whatever it is that's going on, you can't give them the cold shoulder. It's not your job to discipline them. It's your job to be open and honest and to go through the problem together and get help. If you can't talk about it in a healthy way, what do you do? You go talk to a counselor and you talk through these things in the healthiest way possible. You go to people who can help you in your life who you know love, you, love God, love your spouse and are for your marriage and people that you can trust. You do whatever it is that you need to do to get to the kind of the heart of the problem first and foremost, and then do whatever you can to find the healing that you need to have. But you don't punish your spouse. You don't put yourself in that dynamic.

No, never. And anytime that you're trying to punish your spouse in any way, whether it's through that kind of emotional timeout that Ashley talked about, or you're trying to, you know, withhold the best of yourself from them, or just any little way that you're trying to get at your spouse and make them feel some pain. That's a parent, child toxic dynamic in marriage where you're trying to be the punisher instead of the partner. And yeah, when you're hurting, you need to process that and talk about it with your spouse. But it's never appropriate and it's certainly never helpful to try to punish your spouse as an attempt to either wound them or to try to get your way or make your point. What that's going to do is just create more and more distance between the two of you. In just a minute, we're going to dive into our Q and A at this time, you know, this, this time of the episode, which I always love. The questions you guys send in, they're.

Always so good and we never see them until we do the recordings for this podcast. And so it's totally fresh and we try to, you know, lead you in the right direction and answer these to the best of our ability. But if you want to submit a question, you can always submit it@nakedmarriagepodcast.com that's right.

And we appreciate you guys sending it in. We also appreciate those of you who are following us on social media. We love engaging with you guys. We read your messages, we respond. If you follow us avanashleywillis on Instagram or you can also look us up under Marriage on Facebook or Marriage Today on Facebook, which is the ministry that we're part of. And one more website to give you while we're throwing things at you. If you go to xomarriage.com you can engage with our whole speaking calendar with the live events with our streaming service, which is called XO now, which is like a Netflix just for marriage. We want to just provide you with as many resources as we can through this podcast, through live events, through the articles and videos at Marriage Today, there's so much out there to help you guys continue growing stronger. And we also just wanted to say thanks. Thank you for listening and for learning. You know, the spouses who become the healthiest make it a discipline to keep learning and keep growing. And just the fact that you're listening to this, you're doing that, we want to say thanks. So thank you, guys. You challenge us, you inspire us, and we hope to in some way do the same for you. So, sweetie, would you like to use that lovely reading voice? You've got your sexy reading glasses on right now so that I always get excited.

Look how sexy they are. But they do the job.

No, they are cute. So why don't you read today's question for us? All right.

It says, hi, Dave and Ashley. First off, thank you so much for what you guys do. I love listening to you guys and so does my husband. And role models like y' all are. I love the y'.

All.

Thank you for saying that. It's so great. Role models like y' all are so needed in today's world where people seem to think marriage is easily disposable. My question is regarding toxic in laws. My husband and I have had issues with his sister and his parents since about a month after we started dating. His sister and I were friends before we met, but she turned into a completely different person once we got serious. Even though she said she wanted us to date, I soon discovered that she was a pathological liar. She has been insanely mean to me on multiple occasions, and she has completely ruined my relationship with his parents. After almost 10 years, my husband and I have finally decided it's best to have no contact with her unless absolutely necessary. I also believe she is a narcissist. His parents have been extremely harsh and do not understand boundaries at all. But we're getting to the point where we can tolerate. We can tolerate each other. My question is, how do I keep this from eventually ruining my marriage? Essentially, his sister blames me for everything, and so do his parents. To them, I pretty much run their family. I keep picturing that someday something bad will happen, like a funeral, and my husband will resent me for the boundaries we've set. But I cannot be mistreated for the rest of my life just because they're family. Wow. Thank you so much. And I can see, you know, in her heart, she wants to have a good marriage. She really does want to have a good relationship with her in laws and with her sister in law. But, you know, like we've said before, we have a whole podcast on setting boundaries, actually probably several, and even on toxic in laws. So, like, if you, if this is your issue, please go back and listen to those. But the bottom line is, you know, in the, in the word, it talks about how we need to do our best to be peacemakers with everybody in our life. But it also follows it up and basically says, you know, it says, like, do whatever you can.

Right. As far as it depends on you.

On you. But that's telling me that there are some people in your life who tragically refused to have peace with you for whatever reason. And so if you're doing your part, which this woman is, you know, it's a really hard situation because they're family.

Yeah, it really, really is hard. And it sounds like that you guys have gone through the long and painful process of trying to reason with this person and trying to build bridges. And like Ashley said, there'll be some people in your life that you do as much as you can to live at peace, but because of their toxic behavior or narcissism or whatever it might be, or pathological lying, which obviously you can't have any kind of healthy relationship with someone who's a perpetual liar, it puts you in a position where you cannot win. There are going to be some people in your life where you just cannot win. They will refuse to let you win because a healthy relationship, everybody wins together. And this person is not in a healthy place right now. And I hate that you've been put in this lose, lose position of feeling like no matter what you do, you lose. But I will say that it sounds like you've made the wise decision to protect your marriage first and foremost, which is, is the first step. The Bible's clear about where our priorities should be. God first, our spouse second. For this reason, a husband will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. The two will become one. God gives us a clear pattern of letting us know where our loyalties need to lie. And from the moment we marry, our primary loyalty, it's always God first, but then right under that, it's our spouse and the family unit we create together as, as husband and wife. And then you continue to honor your parents, you continue to honor those other people in your life, and when possible, work to have a healthy, ongoing relationship with them, but never at the expense of your own marriage relationship. So the boundaries you've set are helpful, it sounds like now, just to give you a follow up to make sure that these boundaries are healthy and also are promoting the opportunity for future healing in this relationship. Because God's desire is always for healing and reconciliation to happen in family relationships when possible.

Right.

A book that we recommend often, in addition to the Naked Marriage book, which I hope you've read already or downloaded the audiobook. And we appreciate those of you who have, but a book called Boundaries by doctors John Townsend and Henry Cloud. It's been around for years, and it's helped literally millions of people with these very difficult family dynamics. I would encourage you to read that book, follow what it says, if it's challenging you to do things differently than maybe you've done right now in terms of the boundaries you're setting. And then I would encourage you to send that book to his parents to let them know, we love you, we want a relationship with you, but we also want to have a healthy marriage, and we want to do things God's way. And we sadly feel like that this sister has prevented that from happening and has created some division. That's not our desire. Our desire is for there to be peace in this family. This is a book that was recommended by us that is based on the Bible and on research. This is what we're trying to follow. And just so you can understand where we're coming from, I would love for you to read this, too. And then for all of us together to discuss what it can look like for us to have a healthy, thriving relationships. Understanding what clear and healthy biblical boundaries are supposed to look like. And it could be a path that sparks some healthy conversation.

So true. I mean, Boundaries. It's helped in our marriage. We've been married almost 20 years, and we look back to that book all the time. It's awesome. And it's not just for family relationships. It could be for others who are listening. And maybe it's not a family member who's causing some trouble in your marriage, but maybe it's a friend. It'll help you set boundaries with all kinds of different relationships. And so definitely check that out. I also wanna say this. I could tell at the end of that question, she said that she's just worried that deep in her husband's heart that he kind of doesn't feel totally on board with these boundaries. And I think, again, just be honest with each other. Ask him how he's feeling and say, like, listen. And just be compassionate and say, listen. I know this is probably even harder on you because these are your parents and this is your sister. You know, how can I make this better for you? You know, is there anything I am Doing or not doing that is causing you to hurt more through this situation. And I think just being honest about those feelings and owning the fact that this is his family. And so even though these boundaries do need to be in place, that it probably affects him a little bit more. And certainly it's hurting you as well. But I think just being sensitive to that will go a long way in keeping your marriage really open and honest and stronger ultimately.

Yeah, that's so good. And I would just add to that and don't complain about his family to him. I think that you're putting the clear boundaries in place and establishing why they're there is important. But don't just huddle up and use it as a time to just kind of talk in a toxic way, even though you might have those feelings. But you've got to find a way to rise above that and to pray for these folks and to pray for healing. Praying together for this situation instead of just always talking negatively about it could not only help change the situation, but change your hearts in the process.

And I just want to say this too, real quick, and then we're going to have to wrap this up, but I really believe in Christian counseling. We talk about it all the time, but there is such a thing as family counseling. And you know, when somebody is a narcissist and a perpetual liar, odds are they may not think they need it, but it doesn't hurt to ask or to go yourself. Even if his parents are willing to go, it can go a long way. I mean, it really can go a long way to create more peace in the family dynamic, because a lot of times both sides don't really fully understand how much they're hurting one another or the real story of what's going on. I mean, his parents probably don't even realize all that the sister has done to hurt you. And so it's good to have a neutral person to help have these conversations, get everything out on the table, and to really kind of have a fuller picture of what's going on and to be able to pray specifically about where healing needs to be taking place.

That is a good word, my love. That is a good, good word. Family counseling, individual counseling, couples counseling. With the Christian counseling can be a game changer. Guys, thank you for listening again. Thank you for all that you do to help spread the word about this podcast through subscribing, through leaving reviews, which we read every single time, and, and just for being part of this, this online community. And together, together we're building stronger marriages and hopefully growing in our faith at the same time. So, guys, thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next time.

Bye, guys.