Busting ME/CFS & Fibro Myths Together & Celebrating YOU

Hello and a warm welcome to our Facebook Live with myself, Ashok Gupta, with my colleagues, Frances Goodall and Pauline Lzinga. So welcome to all of you today for our fascinating discussion on busting the myths of me, CFS and fibromyalgia. So, as you know, today is me, CFS and Fibromyalgia International Awareness Day. It's all about bringing awareness to these very serious conditions. And to introduce myself, I'm Ashok Gupta. I'm the founder of the Gupta Program and I've spent the last 20, 25 years researching these different conditions and figuring out how we can support patients to recovery using neuroplasticity and brain retraining and holistic health advice. And I'm very excited to have with me today two of our senior coaches from the Gupta program. So, first of all, I'm pleased to introduce Francis. So, Francis, do you want to introduce yourself?

Yeah. So I've been a Gupta coach since 2008, following my own recovery journey from chronic fatigue syndrome, which I had for five years. And, yeah, it was a difficult journey to get well, but I got there in the end. And being a coach of the program for the Last many years, 13, 14 years, has been a joy. And, yeah, seeing other people transform their health as well and what's possible in terms of the approaches that the programme offers.

Great, thank you, Francis. And Frances has also been involved in our coach training program, supporting. We've got about 20 coaches right now and we've got another 20 to 30, perhaps even 40 coaches currently in the training program. So very exciting news on that front and I'd like to introduce Pauline to, who's one of our coaches, based in the Netherlands, but sees clients all around the world. So, Pauline, do you want to introduce yourself?

Yes. Hi, everyone, I'm Pauline. I'm also coaching for the Gupta program already for a while. I work a lot with people with chronic fatigue, people who have high sensitivity and people who in general find that their nervous system, the brain and nervous systems are very dysregulated. I also have my. Had my own health journey. I recovered from chronic fatigue syndrome, which also started in childhood very early on and learned a lot, healed a lot, and I'm, yeah, very passionate about talking about these topics and also helping others to heal. So thank you for having me here.

Yes, of course. Thank you, Pauline. So on this International Awareness Day, one of the key things that we want to do is if you are suffering from the condition and you feel like you haven't really been understood or you're battling this on Your own. We want to make you feel like there is a place that you can come where you can be in a supportive group and people can understand the experiences you're going through, because we've been through it ourselves as well. And I think just to tell you a bit about my story, so I actually suffered from ME and chronic fatigue syndrome when I was at university. And in the darkest moment, I remember a promise I made with the universe, that there are thousands, millions of people around the world suffering from these illnesses. And if I can just figure out what's going on, if I can just get myself well, then I will dedicate the rest of my life to helping others and really finding a solution to these conditions. So I spent many years researching brain neurology, understanding the neurology of emotion, the physiology of these conditions. And I got myself 100% better using some ad hoc brain retraining processes, published some medical papers, and then set up an international clinic to support others. And we were the first neuroplasticity brain retraining program to publish our treatments in 2007. So that's a bit about my journey. And I remember when I was unwell, I would go from doctor to doctor and they would say to me, oh, we're not sure what you've got, but we think it's psychological, so you've probably got depression. So they put me on antidepressants. Right. That was one of the myths, or the myths. You know, the main myths I had to deal with was in those days, in the 90s, it wasn't really recognized as much as it is now. And that was a real challenge for me. So if you've been through those experiences where either people don't understand, you're not getting the right treatment, you're not getting the right resources, we hope that today we can help bust these myths about your condition, make you have a deeper understanding of what's going on, and then hopefully guide you to the correct resources for yourself. Or there may be somebody else that you know. And what we'd love for you to do is please do share this stream on your social media. So your YouTube, your Facebook, we're live on those two channels. We're also live on Twitter. So please do share this stream, perhaps with other support groups or friends and family, and hopefully we can spread the message that these conditions are real, they're serious, they impact on people's lives, there's a huge amount of suffering, and how can we collectively bring awareness to this as well? Good. So I also wants just to Talk about what these main myths are, these myths that we experience about these conditions. And the first myth I think that's really important that I've mentioned is this idea that it's all in the mind, especially doctors who perhaps haven't really understood or read the latest research on what the science is saying about these conditions. And therefore it can make us feel like it's my fault. Oh, I've got fibromyalgia, or I've got chronic fatigue, and it's in some way I'm causing it. Maybe I'm just depressed. Maybe I'm avoiding something. Yeah. And we go and have the tests and nothing comes back on the test. So we think, oh, well, maybe it is in my head. And for those of you who are feeling like that, I want you to know that the latest research is clear on this, that there are huge amounts of abnormalities throughout the body in the both of these conditions. So we know there are issues with the muscles, there are inflammatory markers meeting. There's a huge amount of inflammation in the body and in the brain. And so these are real serious conditions which affects every muscle cell and fiber of the system. And this is also true for Long Covid as well. So for those of you who either are suffering from Long Covid or you know, somebody who's suffering from Long Covid, it's the awareness that that also is a serious condition, that that parallels a lot of the symptoms of chronic fatigue as well. So, to Francis and Pauline, when you were first ill and perhaps some of the stories of your clients as well, do you see this kind of fear that people have that I'm being told it's all in the mind or all in the head, and how does it make people feel?

Yeah, I mean, certainly when I first got unwell, I was told by a doctor straight away, it seems like you're depressed and you need to go on antidepressants. And I was like, oh, I don't know. I don't think it is just that there's definitely some secondary depression, but there's something else going on as well. Something. And then certainly with clients as well. Absolutely. I mean, I think there can be a lot of fear that comes up at the start of the condition of what's happening and how to solve it. And actually, I think there can be some trauma from that early time often that needs addressing as well to support recovery. So.

Yeah, you talk about trauma there, Franz. That's quite interesting. So you think that actually having either a misdiagnosis or being told it's in your mind, in itself could be traumatic.

Yeah, absolutely. And there can be some emotions from that time that still often needs processing later on down the road when there's more resources available as you start to recover and that sort of thing. So, yeah, absolutely. I find that with clients quite a lot, that. That is like one piece that often is addressing. Yeah.

And to add to that, I think we don't realize that we as humans are also sort of group people. And what we need is what makes us feel safe is to be acknowledged by each other and to be understood to being heard. So to have doctors say something that is very different from your own experience is emotionally very hard, basically, and can really mess with people. We need that support, we need that acknowledgement and we need to be taken seriously, else it's deeply distressing, basically.

Yeah, yeah. And we need hope as well. Like, I'd like the other end of the spectrum. I had someone from the local ME group telling me that I was never going to get healthy again, ever, and I should expect to be able the rest of my life. And, you know, I'm 19 years old. I need. I need to know that there's hope that I can overcome this.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think what both of you referring to is that validation.

Yeah.

This is not just something I've made up in my head or there's something wrong with me. This is a real physical condition with real physical symptoms. It's to be taken seriously. And the only reason that perhaps in the past doctors and clinicians have not taken it seriously is because the science hasn't kept up, or certainly the awareness of the science hasn't kept up with the latest research that's actually going on proving that this is real and it's physical and it's nobody's fault that it has occurred. And I think that's really important.

And to add to that, what I also see in class signs that actually many people who are dealing with these kind of illnesses have a lot of passion for life. And there is no, no, that's not a depression at all. Our dopamine might be low and serotonin, so we might feel in our moods lower than we normally do. But there is also a lot of. Yeah, the best word for me that comes up for me is sort of. Yeah, passion for life, I would say.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And how can. So if there is that trauma, or let's say it's not necessarily trauma, but just a lot of unresolved emotion about how we're being treated by the medical profession and Doctors, especially when those are the people that we trust. Right. So it even feels worse because they are experts in their fields, and therefore we don't feel validated with the condition. How can our clients, our patients, actually resolve that or let it go.

To be heard and witnessed and what they've experienced and to feel whatever's not being processed around that and to have some new perspectives as well, and understanding around something like the Gupta program and how, you know, how connected the brain and the nervous system is to the symptoms and actually to have hope that there is also something can do about it as well. So.

And with that, so it causes a lot of stress, and we hold that in our body, in our nervous system. So what. What you see is that there is, for a while, a lot of releasing, going on, a lot of crying. Very healthy. The stress needs to get out. Yeah. A lot of old sadness coming out coming up, which I think is very much okay. If we can allow that. Yeah.

Yes. And it's interesting, we get a lot of emails into the Gupta program that they say, ashok, when I first read your hypothesis or I watched your videos, I burst into tears because finally somebody understood what I was going through, and it made sense, and it made logical sense that this isn't my fault. This is unconscious without conscious awareness. But there's a logical reason why. Why my body has gone into this altered state, and it keeps triggering the nervous system and the immune system and causing these types of symptoms. And that's incredibly, I think, validating, but also gives people hope that if you can, you know, one of the problems with these conditions is we don't, or people don't really understand what the underlying reasons for it are, and therefore, you can't even feel validated with it. But as we're seeing more and more brain scans, we're seeing the underlying reasons, and I think it becomes easier to accept, essentially. Yeah. And I find in the healing journey, that idea of acceptance is the first step that I validate myself for having this condition. The condition itself is validated. So I don't need to waste energy worrying about what the reasons for this are, or is it all in my own head and all those types of myths that get perpetuated that makes it.

Also not personal anymore in a way, it's not personal.

Absolutely. Yes, exactly. We can objectify it more. And I think that's something that leads us on to our second myth. So the first myth being it's all in the mind, and the second myth is something you touched on, Francis. There's no way to recover. Nobody recovers. You're going to have this for life. And that's often something that's said not only by doctors, but also support groups. Well, meaning support groups. And I understand why they may say that, which is because we don't have. Well, actually, until recently, the Gupta program, we don't have any clear randomized control trials showing significant improvement from one particular therapy. And therefore, from a purely scientific, reductionist philosophy, we'd say there is no treatment, there is no cure, there is no way through this. But in fact, certainly whether it's through the Gupta program, whether it's through other avenues, people do get better. That's actually the message of hope that we really need to give to people, is that no matter what the doctors or the support groups say, many people do get better. And I see this issue happening where people recover. People have told us this in the Gupta program. They go onto these support groups and say, hey, look, you know, I'm now 90% better. I'm 100% well, I'm exercising. You know, I did the Gupta program. And they are then told, oh, well, maybe you didn't have the condition in the first place, right? Now, how disempowering is that to people with the conditions? And really, we should be listening to people who recover and understanding more about that. So. Yeah. Have you both seen that with clients in your own experience?

Yeah, I've absolutely had that kind of response, personally. I mean, you must have just had some sort of minor adrenal fatigue, not proper chronic fatigue. I mean, that's a, you know, not recoverable kind of situation. And. Yeah.

Yeah, no, it's. It's funny, isn't it? Oh, well, if you recovered, you just had a mild bit of chronic fatigue. It wasn't me or chronic fatigue syndrome. So it's almost. But it's defining. It is putting the cart before the horse is defining it in the opposite way. Because you recovered, you did, you never had the condition.

But then it's like, not validating the journey it takes to recover. Like, it was five years for me, and for many clients, it's been longer as well.

And if it's even longer, it took me a very long time to slowly get to know, first of all, what is happening with me, and then you. And then, you know, what is going on. And then this understanding has to grow. And you see it constantly with people that, for example, had doing a webinar for the second time or watching sessions for a second time, or it's layers of awareness, basically getting more Understanding, seeing better. Oh, my. This is where my body is starting to get again. In a fight and flight or bracing. It takes time. It takes time. For some people, that goes very fast, and others need more time.

For those of you who are kind of newly diagnosed, perhaps just to give you hope, it can also happen very quickly, especially when you come up with the right kind of tools and advice early enough. So, yeah, that can really support a quicker recovery as well.

Yeah, absolutely. So for those of you who are just joining us, we've got this fantastically engaging conversation with myself, Ashok Gupta, with Francis and Pauline, two of our senior GUPS program coaches. And we're talking about busting the myths around me, CFS and fibromyalgia on the International Awareness Day. And what we'd love for you to do is share this stream with people who you think could benefit, people who feel they're not really being heard or are really lost with this condition. Please do share this video on your social media in the MECFS groups, fibro groups, and also Long Covid as well. So we are actively treating Long Covid. We're involved in clinical studies in this area, and we're getting great results with those who are unfortunate enough to suffer from Long Covid as well. So, yeah. And please do send us your hearts, your thumbs up, your smileys. Always nice to see those across the screen as well. Wonderful. So we have some other myths that need to be busted. We talked about this first myth that it's all in the mind. The second myth being once you have this condition, there's no recovery, you'll have it for life. So we want to bust that myth as well. The third one related to that is that there's permanent damage. So I hear this time and time again that, oh, well, I've had the condition for 10 years or 20 years, sometimes 30 years. And, you know, I'm going to have this forever. And there's permanent damage. So it doesn't matter what I do. Yeah. You know, this damage in my body. So it doesn't matter if I change my diet or do the Gupta program or do any other types of treatments. And it's really interesting. I love the story of there was a guy in New Zealand who was 84 years old and he had had fibromyalgia and I think mold for like 30 years. The whole majority is adult life. And then he came to us and he said, look, I don't even know if I can recover. Is it even worth recovering? You know, I'm 84. I'm probably going to be fatigued anyway. And he used the program and within six to nine months he got himself fully well. And he said, you know what, Ashok? This is fantastic. I'm going to travel the world now. I'm going to do all the things that I've always wanted to do. And it was such a beautiful story that if somebody at the age of 84 can find that inspiration not only to recover, but then to be, to have that passion about life and wanting to travel the world, if he can do it, then I'm sure most people can find that courage and that determination to work with themselves and heal. And I thought that was fantastic. And so I think from my perspective, we hear these stories about this permanent damage. In our experience, there's not necessarily any objective data showing that. Right. So certainly there are, for instance, neuroinflammation. There may be a shrinkage of certain areas of the brain. There can be impacts on the mitochondria and the body. But we believe here at the Gupta program that these are what we call functional conditions where the function of the system, the software of the body is going wrong, which is affecting the hardware, but the hardware itself, if you fix the software, the hardware will return to normal. It's like when your computer crashes and you think, oh no, it must be dead. There's something wrong with the physical hardware of the computer. So you take it into the IT geeks, the so called IT geniuses at Apple, and they have a look at your, your laptop or your iPad or whatever and they say, plug something in. They say, actually, you know what, the computer itself is fine. We just need to reset a bit of software or a software bug that's stopping your system from working correctly and keeps crashing. And in the same way, that's what I believe is happening with me. CFS and fibromyalgia and Long Covid, these conditions where the physical body itself is being impacted by our nervous system. So the problem is in the brain and the nervous system. And when we correct that, then the body itself can naturally heal, sometimes quite quickly. So that idea of permanent damage. So, Francis and Pauline, I'm sure your clients have kind of expressed this and the kind of depressive symptoms that may come as a result of believing that. Have you have any experience of that?

Yeah, similar to that as well. But there's something different about me as well, because of X, Y and Z or whatever, but about why I won't recover or it's going to take me longer. So any of these beliefs obviously can sort of affect recovery if we're holding those kind of beliefs quite strongly, and to work on those beliefs and to release your sort of self from holding those beliefs as strongly and to choose something else can be really powerful to. Yeah. Support you to get to where you want to be. And, you know, personally, I'd say in many ways, actually, after having the condition, in many ways, I was reached levels of health that I'd never had even before having it. So actually, I think, you know, the reverse can potentially be true because you learn so much about how to take care of your mind, your body, your soul through the journey that you can actually perhaps even create more optimal health as the result is going through ultimately. So that's why I say. But. And also, I think once you've gone through something like chronic fatigue, you also learn to take care of yourself better. You know, if you. If you need rest, rest, you know, and things like meditation, which is part of the book program, are beneficial for the rest of your life anyway. And. Yeah.

Yeah, I totally agree. Totally agree with that. Yeah. Pauline, anything you'd like to share?

Yeah, I was thinking what in. In my own healing journey. Well, was always very clear to me that I had these. There were weeks where I was, let's say, off, where I was quite dysregulated, and it was always followed by weeks where I was doing a little bit better, and in these weeks that I was doing a little bit better. So in a way, our process goes and goes like that as well. What always was very clear to me was that I was less sensitive, less allergies, my menstruation cycle was better, my skin was better, my digestion was better. And when I had these periods where I was more off, that all went out of balance again. So it was very clear to me that there is something underlying that is influencing all the symptoms that I'm having. But depending on how I am doing, a lot gets better as well. So that gave me always a sense of trust, of it's really the brain and the nervous system, not so much all these individual symptoms going on. And I think it's also people who are going on holiday, they will say, oh, I felt so much better. Often they are less sensitive for their foods and they are more relaxed and sleep is better. You see so many signals that the system is doing, is having it a little bit easier.

Yeah. It's a really important point you brought up there, Pauline, which is we have these ups and downs. Most people experience the ups and downs with a condition. Now, if there was permanent damage like if you break your leg, you break your leg, right? It's suddenly not one day less broken than it was on another day. Whereas this condition is a condition of the function going wrong. So if the function goes wrong on one particular day, your symptoms get worse, but another day when the function returns to normal, your symptoms get better. And that should give us hope that there isn't that permanent damage necessarily. Of course, we can never say 100% and everyone should get their symptoms checked out by their doctor before starting any kind of program. But at the same time, time and time again, we see people who started with that sense of, you know, it's permanent damage. I've had this for 20, 30 years. But then they've still been able to use the Gupta program to recover and get their life back. And we shouldn't underestimate the, as you say, the strength, the power that they've employed within themselves and really respect that journey that they've been on to be able to achieve that type of recovery. And then finally, another myth that we see time and time again is this idea that the only way I can get better is if I go on this very strict dietary regime. And perhaps they see, you know, nutritionist, and don't get me wrong, there's lots of great nutritionists, dietitians, naturopaths, are doing great work with these types of patients and clients. But at the same time, sometimes going on this exclusion diet where, okay, the only way you're going to get better is if you go on this anti candida diet or you cut out all of these foods and that's the only way you're going to get better. What do you see as a result of when people hear that and they then try to get better through that type of route?

It's incredibly tempting. Let's start with that. It's incredibly tempting. And what I see, many people where work, we are constantly tempted by commercials on the Internet to start a diet again with the promise that this is going to heal. But many people have already been through many diets or supplement regimes or whatever, and if you would ask, did that heal you? Often the response is no, but it's had the, the seeking has something that, that, that died that might be able to heal us and that is giving something. It is an trying that is, is giving me a sense of hope or it's giving me a sense of, oh, maybe I am getting better, it's giving me a sense of safety, I will be okay in my life. All these things are not going to give that and that sense of safety or reassurance, that's something that is in us if we reconnect with our body. So in a way we are seeking it often a little bit at the wrong place. And we seek that reassurance or that comfort or that knowing it will be fine or that relaxation in, in doing all these things. But it's, it's to be found when we reconnect with ourselves. So that, yeah, that's what I see a lot. And, and I can even, I have also still have days that I'm like, I feel a little bit fatigued and I can, I can also be walking on the street and think, ah, shall I get a bottle with magnesium or whatever. I know deeply that it's not the solution for anything. I have, I've all had, I've all tried it, but it's so tempting.

You know, Paulie, it's so funny you say that because. Exactly that's the way we think of medicine, which is there's something wrong with the body. I go and see somebody, they give me a box of pills.

Yeah.

And then I get well. Yeah. And therefore it must be. And often many well meaning alternative practitioners will do the tests and say, ah, that enzyme is low. That's the root cause of your condition. Or that transmitter or that binder, we need to fix that. And then you're going to get better. And those things certainly may help, but they're not the root, necessarily the root cause of why someone's ill. But when we have that belief system, then we're constantly chasing that and we generally find people have 20 supplements there are. Right. But then they may feel better, but the moment they have a stressful period in their life, their condition just goes back to the same that it was, you know, before. Now, certainly we here at the Gupta program, we have an anti inflammatory diet and supplements that we recommend, but we call it the 8020 rule. Yeah. So, well, not the 8020 rule, the 80% anti inflammatory diet. So you can stick to it 80 to 90%, but if you don't, that's okay. That's not the thing that's making you ill. So it gives people a bit of leeway and doesn't put the strict pressure on them that I must do it this way, otherwise I'm not going to get better.

And I think what you're saying there, I must do this and then I get better. It already shows a little bit the dysregulation we are in. If we find ourselves in our minds very obsessed about and very Strict and controlling about anything. Food, supplements, but also routines. We are very much up here. That's what happens when we are dysregulated and have to ground ourselves back, breathe and have a stretch, have a meditation. But from here, it's never the state where we want to make decisions from or where we are clear about what we really need.

Yeah, some really wise words there, Pauline. Absolutely. And Francis, have you also seen that perhaps in yourself or the clients that you work with?

Yeah, certainly in myself and in clients as well, like latching onto things like, oh, it's Candida. As long as I do this Candida diet, I'll be fine. And then being really obsessive about cutting out sugar and then feeling really guilty if I ate a bit of sugar, you know, all that sort of stuff. And I definitely see that kind of thing with clients as well. And that sometimes it can sort of overtake someone's life. Being a bit obsessive about supplements or following the perfect diet. And actually that can in a way create more stress and anxiety potentially, but sometimes it can also give a sense of control. And of course, like a generally healthy diet is going to support your system alongside other approaches as well, to calm the nervous system and not be able to heal.

Yeah, absolutely. Here at the Gupta program, we have a both and approach, which is if you find there are things in the physical aspects that you are using that are helpful, of course, continue with them. That might be supplements, et cetera, but it's the obsessiveness and the anxiety and fear that associates with it. That then is disempowering and is making your condition worse. So if you're able to take the supplements or be like certain foods that you cut out, but be more relaxed about it and not have any anxiety about it, then it's not going to impact so much on your. On your nervous system. I think that's incredibly important. And I think the reason we're here today on International Awareness Day, for me, CFS and fibromyalgia, is because these myths are still being perpetuated. And we thought we'd left these, you know, back in the 90s, but unfortunately, it's still in popular culture that, oh, you have that me thing. Oh, that's in the mind. Right. Or, you know, it's yuppie flu. These myths are still being perpetuated. And I want to say, you know, I've spent my life 20, 25 years researching this condition. And absolutely, it's real. It's not imagined. But at the same time, the good News is that we don't believe there's necessarily long term, permanent damage. And we, all three of us, or all of our Gupta program coaches, see recoveries daily in our clinics. We see how people can get better and get their lives back. And that's just so empowering, you know, and I think we want to really, we're going to go through in a moment a prayer of strength for people who are suffering from these conditions and really honor the courage that it takes to have this condition and then to work through it and to attempt to live a normal life and then look for paths to recovery. You know, it's a very challenging time, but also we learn a lot about ourselves and we become stronger. And just a comment that we have here that I think is really interesting, Leonie is just saying in the comments section for the UK, the new Government Women's Health Strategy has over 80 of women saying they aren't heard and taken seriously and have to battle for help. That's over 80%. So there is a real serious problem in the system for women, you know, in the uk And I think that's really interesting as well. Why aren't women versus men being heard? And is it because the medical system, perhaps because we know people who suffer from these conditions, it tends to be more women than men. Probably 70 to 80% of people in these condition brackets will be women. Are they not being heard? And this is because perhaps they are women. So is there anything you've noticed about that?

Yeah, I don't know about specifically women not being heard, but I do know. Yeah. And I'm in the UK that it's not generally that much still understanding and awareness about it and certainly wasn't when I got it years ago. And yeah, I mean, I don't know about men as well, whether sometimes men don't necessarily. I don't know whether they would always come forward and talk about it to their doctor about. I don't know. In the same way. I'm not sure. But yeah, I don't know about this other than a lot more women get these kind of conditions.

Yeah, Yeah, I agree. And I think that not being hurt by the medical community and now especially for her, for women, it's happening everywhere. It doesn't matter where people are from. I see, I see it everywhere happening. It's extremely sad to me. Yeah. And it's, I think it mirrors something of the misunderstanding that there is by the medical community and in the Netherlands. I think for a long time it was just too complex.

Yeah. I think often they call it, but don't understand or know what to do with you. So they make you the problem kind of. Yeah.

Good. Well, I want to once again, everyone who's listening, hopefully you're finding this useful and interesting, please do once again share this with others. And I think something that Makosi is mentioning here, compassion, that self compassion, that actually when we go through these conditions what we really need is compassion from the medical community and people around us to feel that validation, but also compassion for ourselves, that it's not our fault that we got into the situation. And we certainly notice that people with these conditions perhaps aren't compassionate with themselves. And really I think having that compassion to say this isn't my fault, this is a challenge that I'm going through. Whilst I don't want to go into the victim state, of course, the same time I accept myself for having this.

You know, and that's incredibly important, really powerful. Actually I had a client today where that was, she was like, that's the key that you've really helped me with over the last few weeks. It's finding self compassion. And then I'm from that I'm feeling a difference in being able to accept where I am in the moment and accept different parts of me that are coming up and to have confidence that I actually can transform this now. So I think compassion is such an important piece. Yeah.

And that reframes also the word self care. Caring for oneself, caring for our parts that are hurt, caring for the parts that have been through a lot of difficulties in this healing process and being able to be compassionate to that. It's really melting basically. Yeah.

And I think related to that something Henny saying here, it's so true, the mythical attitude towards women is that women are over emotional or weaker than men or just being hysterical or you know, making this up. And these attitudes are so embedded in society and the medical establishment is still very patriarchal.

Yes. I think the big thing I'm passionate about is how the cyclical nature of women and women going through the menopause is not really seen in society or really supported in the way that it should be. I believe quite strongly and I think if that was honoured more that would support women to stay healthier as well. If they could really honour that more that rhythm every month.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the system is set up in a patriarchal way, in a male orientated way, which is you wait until something goes wrong. So once again we're waiting for outcomes versus a holistic approach to health. And then when Something goes wrong, you see your doctor, but you know the doctor, although. And there's a fantastic doctors who've got great bedside manners, be very calming and very compassionate, but ultimately they have five or ten minutes with you to diagnose and treat and prescribe. And it doesn't necessarily make someone come away feeling that this health system is acknowledging what I have and treating it holistically and seeing that it's more complicated than there's something wrong with my muscles or my legs and my energy levels and therefore give me a pill. It's more about my overall health, my mental health, my emotional health, my spiritual health as well as my physical health. You know that it needs to be approached holistically. And I do see some fantastic functional and integrative doctors now taking the holistic approach and realizing that we get better, longer term health outcomes when we look at life in that way. And I really, you know, respect the people who, and even mainstream doctors who are now certainly in the uk if somebody comes now with depression, they're not allowed to prescribe antidepressants straight away, but they can actually look at someone's lifestyle and say, well actually what kind of exercise are you getting? And they can even prescribe dance classes or activities that encourage socializing and helping people overcome depression, depression in a natural way or going for nature walks. So I think this is gradually we're seeing the shift in society more towards that holistic care, which I think is more of a feminine way and a holistic way of healing.

Very much needed. And many illnesses have been first few years of misunderstand, not being understood, not being acknowledged. And then at a certain point there's always a point in history and, and that, and disease becomes more understood and we are happened to be in this time of our lives where we have to go through the misunderstanding and hopefully the switch until there is more awareness and more help.

Absolutely. Well, it's been incredible chatting to you, both of you, Francis and Pauline, thank you so much for coming on. And just to let everybody know, we want to answer your questions, we want you to feel heard and understood. So for the first time, I'll be conducting a private webinar on Zoom with any of you who perhaps are new to the Gupta program or haven't got the Gupta program and have questions about your condition, how my hypothesis applies to your experiences, and how perhaps the Gupta program can help you. Now, this particular webinar will be on Thursday 19th May, so next Thursday. And if you want to find out more information about that, all you have to do is simply go to our website, which is guptoprogram.com Sign up for the free trial, and when you sign up for the free trial, you'll automatically, in a few days, get an email which will give you more information about our private webinar next Thursday. And on that webinar, you'll be able to ask me questions. I'll be answering lots and lots of questions. I want to make sure everyone is fully clear on our hypothesis, how the Gupta program can help. And we call it Ask Ashok Anything or. Well, almost. We have to put the caveat there. Well, almost. So hope you can join us next Thursday for that. And also to let you know, we have a webinar series with myself starting on Monday 23rd May. So if you're interested in finding out more about the Gupta program. So once again, you can go to our website and if you sign up, it's a great time to sign up right now, because starting the programme in association with a webinar series, starting is a lovely way of a gentle introduction, and we hold your hand step by step each week to introduce the tools and help you apply the program to your personal circumstances. So, once again, that webinar series is starting on Monday the 23rd, but you can still sign up for the Gupta program and for that webinar series afterwards as well. Great. Well, Frances and Pauline, anything else that you'd like to add that can really help people bust these myths on this International Awareness Day and hopefully help them come to a deeper sense of peace about their condition? Anything else you'd like to leave people with?

I think one of the most important things that you said in the beginning, it is all about the brain and the nervous system. And the nervous system goes to all our organs, all the places, the spaces in our body, so it's really the brain and the body. So don't doubt. You don't have to doubt that. And if you need any of that being more affirmed. That's how you say it, I think, go on the Facebook page and there's a whole community here that can handle this. Believing you, that is, hearing you use it. Use it in these times when you feel. Yeah. You're in need of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I missed that last bit, Pauline.

Yeah. And I wish people and had a lot of. Yeah. That they will heal. And then make little steps slowly and. Yeah.

Thank you, Pauline and Frances, anything you'd like to leave our listeners?

Yeah, just to really leave with a sense of hope that you can recover that these conditions are recoverable and. But also honoring of how real and valid the symptoms are and your experience as it is right now, and the power of bringing acceptance to that and bringing compassion to that, and getting support, like through the book program and the community involved and the coaches and lots of different support options available.

Wonderful. Thank you, Francis. And what I would also like to leave people with is, you know, if you are feeling misunderstood by doctors, perhaps even friends and family, we can sometimes use up a lot of our own energy arguing with those doctors or arguing with those people to try and persuade them of our point of view or try to help them understand. And I find there's a lot of frustration, a lot of anger that comes from that. In support groups, in individuals, and as. As much as you can, I would encourage people to really let go of that need to try and convince people, because it's a huge waste of energy. And sure, you can send them perhaps the Gupta program information and some videos or some articles, but really just focus on your own healing. Let it go. And it's not their fault that they are misinformed about this, because it's the media, it's the mainstream. It's information about these types of conditions. And the way that the medical profession looks at these conditions, it says, well, if we can't find anything physically wrong, then it's not a real illness. But sometimes they're not looking in the right place, and the hardest place to look is in the brain. And therefore, for me personally, at the time, I found it incredibly healing to, first of all, just release and let go of the need to persuade people or convince people. And eventually there was. And I don't say everyone else has to do this, but there was a feeling of forgiveness. You know, I forgive the people who don't understand this or the doctors who treated me in a bad way because it's not their fault. They've just, you know, this is not a mainstream understanding, and it's going to take time. So rather than trying to convince and persuade and getting frustrated, let me save that energy and focus on my healing. And that's the thing that matters the most. Yeah. Good. So thank you so much, Francis and Pauline. And to finish off today, what I thought we would do is a prayer of gratitude for those who are going through these types of conditions, a prayer of strength, honoring the courage that it takes to endure these conditions and move through them, and love for us to do this collective meditation and hopefully spread positive vibrations around the world for those who are experiencing this. So thank you so much Francis and Pauline. And we'll go into this meditation now. Okay, everybody, so if you'd like to sit comfortably and just close your eyes and just become aware of your body right now. Let's take a slow, deep breath in from the stomach. And breathe out. Another slow, deep breath in. And let go. And let's become aware of our own situation or the situation of somebody we know with this condition. And all the millions of people around the world who are suffering from these neuroimmune syndromes, these types of illnesses. It's just acknowledging and validating the challenges they go through, In some cases, the suffering they go through, that is often hidden. Let's spend a moment just acknowledging and validating that for people, including ourselves, if we are suffering from the condition. And to those people, may we send our blessings, our positive vibrations to those who are experiencing these conditions, and may they feel acknowledged and validated. And let's take a slow, deep breath in. And breathe out slowly through the nose. Let's now also honour the courage and the strength of those with these conditions. We ourselves have it. We can honour the courage and strength within us. Or if it's a friend or family member or the other people around the world who have this, let's honour their courage and their strength to go through what they're going through. Let's acknowledge the bravery and the tears that they experience, but they still soldier on valiantly. Let's send our blessings. May their courage increase. May they go from strength to strength to have that emotional and mental strength, to find solutions for themselves and to heal and recover. May they find the strength to do this. Let's send these positive vibrations from our.

Hearts.

To ourselves and those millions of people around the world. Let's take a slow, deep breath in. And breathe out. Let us pray that these conditions become more validated in mainstream medicine. And that we acknowledge the pain in the heart that these patients experience and that they feel listened to. When we now pray that people with this condition will find their path to recovery, whatever path that may be that's right for them, And that they will see this condition as a journey of transformation. And that they find their salvation. Let's spread this hope with everyone we know. Sending out these beautiful vibrations with love. And holding on to that message of hope. Let's take a slow, deep breath in. And breathe out with a smile. Energizing. Breath in. And let go. And with a smile, when we feel complete, we can just gently open our eyes. Kids, welcome back. Well, hopefully there we've spread some positive vibrations around the planet. And really, if you yourself are experiencing the condition or you know someone that is, hopefully those words have been soothing and help people feel a little better just by knowing that there are people out there who support you. Yeah. And as you bring Pauline back on, as we finish off our live stream. Hi there, Pauline.

Hi.

I just wanted to ask you finally, as we finish off, how do we create that sense of hope and that positivity that healing is possible? How do you create that within your clients to really help them on that road to recovery? That belief is so important, isn't it?

I think it's very much in looking at the small changes that are happening. So if you follow the Gupta program, you know that we talk a lot about the fight flight and freeze responses. And so every time we are, the fight response is not that. Not that strong or not that long, or you find you're able to. To bring yourself back into the state of rest and digest a little bit better or faster. And that's change. Or when we are in a freeze response and after meditation and we are able to lift the freeze response and get out of that. That's you doing that. That's you retraining your brain and nervous system. So it's often not in the big changes that we have to look at first. It's. It's way more in the small changes that. That show regulation is happening. We are a little bit less triggered, or if we are triggered, we are able to observe it more in ourselves than are fully identified with. With our parts. With. That shows you there's more regulation on board. That's. That shows that we are. That we're on the right track, basically. And often there are many of these small changes happening. And that's helped me that. I think that helps many people to look at that we are on the right path, basically, to healing.

Yeah, absolutely. Good. Well, thank you for those final inspiring words, Pauline. So, once again, if you would like to join me for a priority private webinar next Thursday, 19 May, simply go to guptaprogram.com you can sign up for the free trial. There's no credit card involved. And then you'll receive an email in a few days and that will be just a webinar for people who don't have the Gupta program. You can ask me questions. It's called Ask Ashok Anything. Well, almost. And hopefully that can be inspiring for you to realize that recovery is possible. Many people get their lives back through so many different avenues, and you can too. And of course, we start our next webinar series on Monday 23rd May as well. So thank you so much for watching. Please do once again share this on your social media with your friends and family. And let's get the word out on this International Awareness Day that your condition is validated, that mainstream medicine is now becoming more aware of how important it is to validate this and that recovery is possible. And that's the message of hope that we want to spread today. So thank you, Pauline. Thanks to all of you for watching, thanks to Jess and the whole team for putting this event together, and we look forward to seeing you hopefully next week on our Q and A. So thank you so much and goodbye.