Long Covid vs ME/CFS - Similarities and Differences Q & A | Ashok Gupta | Gupta Program |

Well, hello and a warm welcome back to the second part of our Facebook Live here, our Q and A, where we'd like to take your questions and anything that you personally want to share with us your experiences of having Long Covid or any questions that you may have for myself or Shona. So we're going to have a look at the questions on the Facebook Live here. Okay. And you can write those questions underneath in the comments section of this particular video so you can see the comments section there. Please do use that to ask us any questions that you like on Long Covid. This may be because you're suffering from Long Covid yourself or you know somebody who is and you want to help them. And we're here to answer any questions. This could be on the hypothesis, could be questions on the symptoms and how you cope with them, or what the prognosis is for recovery or how the Gupta program works. Great. So thank you for your questions. They're coming through here now. So Eva asks, is it true that the longer we suffer, the less there is a chance that we can get better? It's been 18 months for me now. So Eva, when we're talking about longer periods of time, we're really talking about many, many years, if not decades. And so many people, you know, have the ME CFS or fibromyalgia for longer periods of time. But I think in the shorter term, you know, six months, a year, 18 months. I don't think there's going to be too much difference in your chance of getting better. And of course, with these illnesses, it is about having the belief that you can heal. The body is designed to get back to homeostasis, back to balance. It's not designed to be in this altered state. So we are simply supporting the brain and the body to get back to its default position. Freya asks how much time per day is required for the program. I don't want to trigger any post exertional malaise. Good question, Freya. So the good news is that we have patients who use our program who are bed bound right through along the scale to people who are working part time or full time. And we encourage you to pace with our program. So there are other things out there that are bit like a boot camp where it's right, do this again and again no matter what you're experiencing. But we very much are a paced program. You take it in your own time, your own space. And so if you are at risk of triggering post exertional malaise, you can take it slower and do what Works for you. India asks, is there a risk of getting long haul Covid again after recovering for months? If we catch, I'm assuming you mean if we catch COVID 19 infection again. India, I would say that if you have recovered and perhaps learnt from the first experience, then if you do catch COVID 19 again, what we'd encourage you to do is to make sure that there is that deep down rest. So as you're recovering from COVID 19, sorry, long haul Covid, you'll be taking care of yourself mentally, physically, emotionally, eating well, sleeping well, all of those good things. And if you catch COVID 19 again, just making sure that you rest at an even deeper level and don't rush to getting back to work or anything like that. And hopefully that would reduce your chances of getting any further symptoms. Now, of course it's a question from a scientific perspective, but that we can't answer because there isn't enough data on the initial bouts of long haul Covid that people are experiencing, never mind if they recover and could it happen again. So there's not enough information to say it one way or the other at the moment. And Shona, is there anything you wanted to add here from any of those questions, from what people have been asking so far?

Well, they're great questions. Just to the last question, I do have one person that I have coached that did get test positive again for Covid as they were getting well with the program and they just used the program with it and it was like a little blip and then they were off on their journey to wellness again. But it was very surprising that she got Covid again. But she recovered using the program, putting her mind into that peaceful state.

Thank you for that, Shauna. That's actually really reassuring for India. So I hope that was a useful response for you and I hope that's put your mind at ease. So thank you for that. Once again, please do share this on your social media. Perhaps groups, Covid groups. We want to get more information out there and we always like seeing your emoticons as well. So please do let us know that you're tuning in and enjoying what we're saying here as well. Mark asks, why do I feel worse after exercise, having had long Covid for 17 months? It's a really good question. Why do we feel worse after exercise? There's actually a very simple explanation that makes sense to me, certainly. So as part of our hypothesis, we believe that the sympathetic nervous system and the immune system is being overstimulated. And in those particular situations, a Huge amount of resources are being used. And when we say resources, we're talking about energy in the subjective and scientific sense. We're talking about the neurotransmitters, the hormones, all of these things that need time and space to replenish themselves. And on top of that, if people aren't getting good sleep at night because of the overstimulation, the body itself is not rejuvenating and healing itself ready to give you energy the next day. So the body is depleted. And this would be an example of this would be, you know, your worst day of flu times 10, which is how I describe, you know, how it feels to have me or chronic fatigue syndrome. So in those particular situations, if you have extreme flu, you wouldn't want to go out and jog around the block. You wouldn't have the energy or resources to be able to do that because there's a huge amount of inflammation going on in the body. There's a huge amount of immune activation which uses up energy, as we said. So then when you exercise or do any kind of activity, the body's not ready for that, and therefore you feel much, much worse. It is the brain's safety valve to tell you that you're feeling worse after exercise, because that's not good for me right now. And some patients have this a day later or two days later, where they'll exercise and there'll be a delayed response. And that delayed response is very similar to when people go to the gym, let's say, for the first time, and they exercise and they have pain in their muscles a day later. You know, sometimes people say you're going to feel much worse tomorrow. You've had. Because you've played football for the first time or you've. Or soccer, as you guys say in the US or you've had a big gym workout after a long time. It's because it's a day or two days later that the body goes back into that healing state and starts rebuilding muscle fibers. That's why there can be a delayed response to exercise as well.

Can I say something, Asha?

Of course, yes.

We see that all the time with people doing the Gupta program and returning to exercise in an incremental and paced way, letting the brain and body know that exercise is safe if it's done in a healthy, incremental way. Like the woman who just sent me the picture of herself mountain biking. She just started out gradual and. Yeah, I just want to add that.

Great. Thank you. Thank you, Shona. And Charlotte is asking a question you mentioned sympathetic System being stuck in these conditions. I've also heard views that me could be the result of parasympathetic excess. Do you see a distinction between Long, Covid and me in this respect? Really good question. So sometimes it can be that there's plenty of evidence in me CFS that there is the sympathetic overdrive which then leads to depletion of the system. Because remember, your body is not designed to have this sympathetic response chronically stimulated. It's designed for a few minutes at a time. So that can lead to depletion of the system, which can mimic a parasympathetic response. Secondly, hypothetically, we could find that the parasympathetic nervous system is over responding at the same time as a sympathetic system and the parasympathetic excess causes that freeze response, where the freeze response literally is an animalistic response to danger, where we suddenly freeze. And that could be as a result of parasympathetic excess. But to be honest, there needs to be more research in this respect. Now, is there a difference between Long, Covid and me? I don't believe so. I think they seem to be pretty similar in terms of this sympathetic arousal, both subjectively and probably within the actual research on the body as well. Shamiya asking, could you please talk about heart issues related to Covid or Lyme? Now, Shamay, the most important thing is everything that we're talking about here is what we call for informational purposes. So if you do have any heart issues, if you think you have Long Covid or Lyme, it's always important that you go to your doctor and get all of these things checked out before you look at a program like ours because we are not experts in cardiovascular disease or anything like that. What we do know is that in COVID 19 infection, there seems to be widespread inflammation throughout the body. We classically think of inflammation in the lungs, but actually there's inflammation in the heart, in the liver, in the kidneys, and in the cardiovascular system itself in the blood vessels, which seems to show that this is the global impact of our own inflammatory response, even inflammation in the brain as well. Now, what impact that has on the heart, on the cardiovascular system? I don't want to necessarily talk to that because it's not my area of expertise. But we would hope that through calming down the nervous system, resetting the system and reducing the inflammation, hopefully some of those secondary effects would also begin to balance out and come back to normal. Shona, I don't know if you had any clients who had heart issues as a result of the COVID 19 infection.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And they're always followed by their doctor. And every client that I see with post Covid is still followed by their doctor. And they are recovering right now. I don't know the details of their heart condition. A lot of people have pots, postural orthostatic tachycardia, but they are recovering using the program.

Great. Thank you, Shona. Rebecca, sharing here. I'm in month nine of long Covid. I've been using the GUPS program for one month, and my breathlessness, chest pain, and post exertional malaise are so much better, but my neurological symptoms persist. How can the Gupta program help me reduce the long Covid neurological symptoms? Thank you for that, Rebecca. You know, you're early in the program, so you've only been using the program for a month, and you know my mantra, which is just keep going. Right? Keep going. So if you've seen those differences already, that's a good sign. Some of the neurological symptoms can sometimes be the first to go or they can be the last to go. It's different in each patient. So be patient, keep going. And I would hope that those neurological type symptoms will also begin to reduce as well. Shona, anything you wanted to share there?

Well, I just. I feel excited for you. If you've had that kind of improvement, it shows that you're able to be fully well. Your body, brain and body are responding to neuroplasticity. So, yeah, keep going. That's wonderful.

Ileana asks, have you seen people recover using Gupta program who have been long haulers for over a year? Is it less likely? As I said, Ileana, from our experience, we have had people who've had it for over a year. And personally, for me, it's not about how long you've had it. It is about the commitment to retraining. I'd love to say retraining was like that, an overnight process. Give you a pill and it's done right. But retraining the brain out of a survival response does require a certain amount of commitment to the program. And that, I think, is the. The main characteristic of who's likely to recover versus who is not. Shona, anything you want to add to that? No.

I think, yeah, it does require commitment. Yeah. I just reiterate what you're saying. Exactly.

Thank you. Stephanie asks, how can you possibly measure your physical or mental limits and that you haven't overdone it if your relapses happen around 24 hours later? Really good question, Stephanie. And this is about the Overall feedback over a number of days and weeks. So if you notice that actually you overdo it and the relapse, or what we call dips, happens 24 to 48 hours later, then for the future, you then know that I push my energy envelope too far and I want to come further back in to my limits, set those boundaries and limits depending on how I'm feeling and not overdo it. And the main thing that people find over does it is just that physical exercise or pushing the body a little too hard with even walking sometimes as well. So notice the feedback and then pull back. Okay, so lots of questions here, so we won't be able to answer all of your questions, but let's come to a few here. Eva, asking again, can your program help with muscle wasting? My fatigue seems tiny bit better, but my muscles are just not there, especially the legs, and I'm considering using a wheelchair. So, Eva, in our experience, the muscle deconditioning aspect of these conditions has been overstated in the literature. And what I mean by that is, sure, there may be little muscle wastage if people haven't been walking or exercising too much, but actually once people use the program, they can gradually be able to get back into gentle walking. And that means that any muscle wastage that has happened can be gradually overcome over time. Jerryanne asks. Hello, Ashok. Thank you so much for this valuable comparison of long haul Covid to me, cfs, I've learned so much. My question is, do people with long haul Covid that have experienced lung scarring experience full recovery and resolution of their scarring? Well, certainly. I know in the recent webinars that I've been conducting with long haulers, I know that some of them certainly had scarring that showed up on scans and were able to still recover. Shona, what's been your experience? Because you've been the Gupta coach who's treated the most long haulers.

Yeah, I definitely. I'm thinking of two people that reported to me that they had imaging that revealed scarring. I don't know what the post imaging revealed, but I know that they are regaining their health. One of them has regained their health entirely. 95% maybe.

Fantastic. Yes. And the reason I think that is is because, sure, there may be lung scarring and that needs to be addressed in terms of anything that the doctor can do. There's not a lot that can actually be done in those situations. But the thing is, what we're doing here is putting the body in its optimal state to be able to heal itself from various things. So that convalescence period after scarring can be helped with things like meditation, calming the nervous system, and just bringing your whole system back to the best state that it can be in to be its own best healer. And our body is its own best healer. Right. Most of modern medicine isn't introducing something new into the body. It is simply supporting your own body's ability to heal. Same with the vaccines. The vaccines are not helping you. Sorry. They're not fighting off COVID 19. They're helping your body become the best that it can be to fight off an infection. Okay, lots and lots of questions here. So we've got a short period of time, so I'm just going to go through a few that we haven't answered. Mikhail asking, can POTS be healed with a program as well? Oh, yes, absolutely. POTS often can be the main symptom or it can be a secondary symptom, or it can be its own condition. And definitely many people heal from that. And that's often quite a strong symptom at the beginning of long Covid. Shauna, anything I want to add there?

Yeah, I see lots of people there. The POTS heals from doing the program. Absolutely. And it's common in CFS as well. I had it and it absolutely resolves.

Great, thank you. Aerials. I read that your program requires not participating in other healing programs. You know, we encourage people to focus on the Gupta program, but at the same time, if there are other things that you are doing that are making you feel better, that's okay. The only reason we don't want you to start participating in new things or other programs is because they may take you away from the core hypothesis of the Gupta program or they may make you feel worse initially. But if you're doing things other healing modalities that make you feel better, that's okay. They can run in parallel. Carol says, I'm feeling so much better using the program, so thank you for that. I also take antihistamines daily when I feel like I'm due a hit or a rush of symptoms. Do you have any thoughts about taking this daily dose? So, Carol, we know that for some people with long Covid, they have a diagnosis of excessive histamine in the body. And there are things that people can do like take an antihistamine diet, which is very similar to our anti inflammatory diet, in fact, and there are certain supplements you can take as antihistamines. So this is something that I can't personally comment on. It does require, you know, doctor, anyone who's looking after you to really make sure you're taking the correct daily dose. So I don't feel prepared to be able to tell you what the right dosage is there. Okay, so we're just finishing off now to seeing if there's any further questions about long Covid. Specifically. Someone asking Tasman asks, is low appetite a sign of autonomic dysfunction? Yes, absolutely. So your appetite is controlled by a number of different brain structures via the hypothalamus to the autonomic nervous system. And some people can have low appetite, some people can have disruption in their appetite. It can vary between low and high. And first of all, once again, with any of these things, it's important to get this checked out by your doctor. But once they've given you the all clear, then that can be a sign of autonomic dysfunction. Some people asking about physical injuries. So once again, our program is designed to be to give the body its best ability to heal from many different things. And people find that they have used the program for a specific illness, like me, fibromyalgia or mold illness. And some of the secondary illnesses that they've had have also improved. Now, obviously this is anecdotal and we haven't done the larger scale studies on that, but so in terms of physical injuries, it depends what kind of physical injury. But if it's a physical injury that then resulted in chronic inflammation, as often happens with fibromyalgia, then yes, our program can help with that kind of continuing chronic response or chronic injury. Okay, so just finishing off someone asking, what are your thoughts about medical marijuana for long Covid symptoms? Okay, it's a really, really good question, especially because there has been obviously legalization in many states in the US and it can be available in Europe as well. So personally, we don't have any studies on this. We don't really have any advice that we can give. The only advice that I will give is that there can be many things that can give a short term relief from these types of symptoms. My caution will be, what is the psychological effect, the psycho immunological effect of marijuana in the longer term? We know that there can be more negative side effects in the medium to long term. So I would prefer that people use our program to heal fully and get strong, rather than using something where we know there can be damaging effects on the neurology of the brain from medium to long term use of marijuana. So I would tread very carefully in that area. Mary asks a question that I think is very important. I'm just starting, Gupta, for Myself for cfs, but I see COVID patients as frontline worker in an acute care hospital. Anything that I can do teaching wise to help prevent long Covid. Yes, Mary. And we did a Facebook live and a video on this as well, and I think had about 10,000 views. We really want to get this message out that we believe anecdotally that the best way to stop COVID 19 turning into long haul Covid is to make sure that a person fully rests and gets to 100% wellness or 95 to 100% wellness for a consolidated period of time before they push their body again. And pushing their body means going back to work. Physical exercise, anything that stresses the body at a physical, emotional, mental, or even a spiritual level. I guess anything that pushes the body too hard is probably going to increase the chances of the amygdala and the insular parts of the brain detecting danger and as a condition response, retriggering those defensive responses of the immune system and nervous system. So if you're seeing patients in acute care in a hospital, I would really advise them to take time out, take time out of life and fully heal, fully rest, enjoy the small things in life. Because we live in a culture where when we feel exhausted or tired, we are told to push ourselves. You know, we have a personal trainer or we go to the gym. It's like, oh, if you're feeling tired, come on, just push your body, get the energy back in your body. But in the case of these types of extreme infections, that is really not what we want to do. We want to give the body time to heal and rest. So hope we can all get that message out there with anyone we know who gets a COVID 19 infection. And perhaps we can share a link to that video that I did on that topic in this comment section as well. Okay. So Stephanie, just responding to the question about the medical marijuana, she said, thank you so much. I've seen it help with nausea and sleep, but it may contribute to mood swings and memory. Exactly. So we know there can be neurological effects. We wouldn't want you to experience those. So you've been weighing up your options. Although I have been asked to participate in a true CBD for long haulers study. Now, the difference with CBD, as I understand it, is that CBD doesn't necessarily have some of the downsides or the negative effects of medical marijuana. But I'm not an expert in that area. So that may be. It may be okay to take that. Brilliant. Great. So thank you to all of your wonderful questions. Thank you for watching. And I hope that we've been able to share some new ideas perhaps on the differences and similarities between Long Haul Covid and me cfs and also answer a lot of your questions about your personal experiences. And once again, we just want to give you that hope. And I hope if you're suffering or other people are suffering, just letting people know that Long Haul Covid or that diagnosis is not a prison sentence. People do get better from these conditions. We've been working with patients for nearly 20 years now. We've seen those recoveries. And whether you do it through the Gupta program or another avenue, just always hold on to that hope and faith that you can get better and that health and wellness is your birthright. Shona, anything you'd like to add as a kind of final thing?

I just thank you for having me and I wish you all health and happiness. Thank you.

Thank you, Shauna. And so if you want to find out more about the Gupta Program, Brain Retraining, Limbic retraining, Neuroplasticity program, then you can visit gupta program.com and there you will see lots of information. You can sign up for the 28 day free trial. So you watch lots of free videos. And there's also a special page for long haulers. So if you click Conditions at the top of the page you will see that Long Haul Covid is one of the conditions that is listed. And there you can see how we go more in depth into our hypothesis as to what causes Long Haul Covid and then it starts applying the program to those specific illnesses. And of course when you start the program, the program is used in exactly the same way as it is for all the other conditions that it's used for. So thank you so much for watching. Once again, please do share this on your social media channels with other groups and we look forward to seeing you next time. And of course, before I forget, we are starting a new webinar series. So when you purchase the Gupta program you get the following so you get a book that's delivered to your house in a floor chart and then you get access to 15 interactive online videos that were shot in the beautiful mountains of Switzerland. And you get about 20 to 30 audio exercises as well. And you also get access to weekly webinars with myself for 12 weeks just to support you and hold your hand along that journey of recovery. And our next webinar series is starting on Wednesday 22nd September. So just next week you can still join even if you purchase the program afterwards. And so now is a great time to join in that webinar series, and I'm able to then take you step by step along that healing journey. So thank you to everyone for watching. Thank you for sharing. Good luck with your recovery. Thank you and goodbye. And thanks to Shonna. Thank you, Shona.

You're welcome.

Bye, everyone.