Long-Haul Covid Recovery Using Neuroplasticity | Ashok Gupta | Gupta Program |

Hello and a warm welcome to our Facebook Live event with myself, Ashok Gupta from the Gupta Program. And thank you for joining us today where we're going to be talking about treatments for long haul Covid. And as many of you know, there are thousands of people who are now suffering from long haul Covid. And this is where people experience long term symptoms even though the original condition is gone. And they estimate that potentially 5 to 10% of people who contract Covid are going on to having symptoms for many months afterwards. So this is a real serious secondary epidemic that we're experiencing on the planet right now. And in the UK alone, they estimate potentially up to a million people are still suffering the long term effects of having the infection. And their plight is being ignored in a lot of cases. So certainly in the UK there are certain specialist clinics being set up the same in the US as well. But there isn't enough resources to really support people through having long haul Covid. And we here at the Gupta Program are contributing our resources and our treatment to see what's working for people. And we're also engaging in a clinical trial as well. So we'll be starting a clinical trial over the next few weeks, a randomised controlled trial to see whether this program is effective for long haul Covid. But in the meantime, we've had many people who've come to the Gupta Program who have engaged with the treatments that we offer and the support. And we're very lucky today to have a couple of those people who'd like to share their story and their experiences of having long haul Covid. And really, hopefully this is some inspiration that if you are experiencing long haul Covid, that there is a way through this and people are getting better. So I'm very pleased to first of all invite Kevin to come and speak with us now. So, Kevin, hello to you. How are you?

I'm good, thank you.

Good. And if you want to tell everyone, where do you live?

I live in Norwich, in Norfolk, in England.

Great. And you're very kind to contact us where you wanted to be able to share your story and inspire others that healing is possible. So, Kevin, you want to describe your story in terms of before you got unwell, how fit you were, and I believe you were running marathons and various things like that. And then what happened when you got Covid and so on?

Yeah, sure. So I am, I am very keen runner and cyclist and so I was training for the London marathon, for the 2020 London Marathon, and I was doing pretty well and then obviously the lockdown came. Along and every. And we all had to stop, but I was still feeling pretty fit. And then at the beginning, end of March, the day the lockdown was announced in the uk, I woke up in the morning feeling a bit rubbish. And the next few days I had obvious Covid symptoms, you know, all the classic stuff, but it wasn't that bad. And I thought, but in a week or so's time I'll be back running and cycling and doing all the things I like to do. However, this wasn't what happened. Every time I thought I was getting better and went out and tried to go running or cycling, within a day or so I was being absolutely awful again. And all I could do was spend the day lying down in my bed or on the sofa. My head would feel really light and faint and I'd feel really nauseous inside and just couldn't do anything and I couldn't work out what was going on. So this went on all through April and May and the length of time I was getting ill was getting longer. So I went from feeling ill for a day or so and then in June I was. I had a whole 10 days where I couldn't do anything. And this got me really depressed because I couldn't, you know, be three months, I couldn't get out. And then in July, August and September I did start to feel a bit better and. But I was still having little episodes of days or so until in October I suddenly had a really bad attack and I had to lie down and spend a couple of days on the sofa and I never really recovered from that. And after a couple of weeks I was still feeling worse and worse, not able to do anything. And I spoke to a friend of mine who had me in the past and they put me onto your Gupta program and said, have a look at this and try this. So I watched the videos and it all made sense to me. What you describe in the early videos about how your brain's wired and how it's. It needs rewiring and retraining. So I signed up for it and started doing the brain training, started meditating for the first time in my life, which is something I never thought I would ever do, but actually I really enjoyed it. So I was meditating two or three times a day, but I was still spending a lot of time lying down, feeling ill, feeling sick. And I went on for about six or seven weeks without, with only glimpses of health. But I stuck with it because I thought it just made so much sense to start with. When I was Doing the brain retraining exercise, the stops. I was doing them 50, 60 times a day because nothing else I could think of, nothing else but the fact I felt ill. But little by little, I stopped doing them so much as I sort of started distracting myself and thinking about other things and things I enjoyed doing rather than just being back. I felt ill. So we got to about December time. And by December, I suddenly started to have much longer periods of feeling well and less time feeling unwell. But I kept going to meditation. I kept going with the stops. And then as we went through January, I felt better still and I started cycling again. I started doing some running again, and I was feeling good. And then in February, I had a sort of wobble, for want of a better word. Well, I woke up one morning, felt really ill again, had to lie down. But this time, because I now have all these tools and techniques that I've learned from the program, I didn't panic, I didn't freak out. I didn't throw my toys, as it were, and stomp around saying, oh, no, I'm ill again. I just went with it. And in a couple of days I felt fine. In fact, by the end of the week, I was back riding on my bike again. But since then, I've stuck with the program. I've done my stops every day. I've meditated two or three times a day. And now I'm back to the sort of fitness I was before all this happens. So I'm now able to run, you know, half marathon distances. And training. I'm training for another marathon. I'm cycling. But I haven't let go of the meditation or, you know, the retraining. I'm keeping that going because I feel it'd be too easy just to let go now and relapse or have a big dip. So that's really my story. I mean, later on you'll speak to my son George, who also has had had the same problems. And it has been very useful that we know to do the meditation and the other things together over the phone. But anyway, that's really my story.

Great. So, Kevin, thank you so much for sharing. And that's really a kind of inspiration for people because at the moment there's no real treatment for people going through this. And the thought of them being able to train for a marathon, you know, every day for them feels like a marathon. So it's great that you stuck with it. I guess that's the really important aspect of the program, is that even if you don't see Instant results. You stick with it and eventually the brain is retrained. Has that been your experience of it?

Absolutely. I mean, what I did to start with, I watched your videos two or three times each one. And that will keep me inspired, as it were, to keep going with this, with the stories and the also sort of stories of other people getting well. And I. I think you just have to have faith that there's no other. I think it's a phrase you use, there's no other game in town, as it were. So that this. So if you're going to commit to this, you need to commit to it and a lot and give it the six months that you say is a minimum. But I'm going to keep going for quite considerable times, even though it's been six or seven months since I started, because I think you just really need to reinforce.

Yes. And that's one of the challenges we have at the clinic is people get well, but then they become complacent and think, right, I can go back to the stressful life that I had before, or perhaps even over training or overstimulating in some way without having the toolkit, and then they have, you know, little dips here and there. But I think it's great that you're emphasizing the thing that we say, which is, we want you to get well and we want you to stay well. That's the most important thing for us. So keeping up with the tools and techniques, even if you feel great, I mean, you know, the amount of cycling you do and running, you do way fitter than even me. But, you know, it's keeping up and making sure that you never come complacent. So that's really great. And anything you want to share with people in terms of inspiring them to that recovery is possible.

Well, I remember lying on the sofa all through October, November, thinking, this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life, to try and stick with this, to try and, you know, be. Stay positive, where I felt so depressed and so rubbish. And I tried to visualize in the future that when I was better, what it'd be like to be back on my bicycle again or back running again. And that kept me going. And I think I just say to other people, even if they get in that state, they've got to believe that they stick with the program, that they can get out of it, they can get back to how they were before.

Great, great. Kevin, it's been amazing to hear your story. I mean, I'm inspired myself in terms of the contrast between lying on the bed and then know, training for marathons. So it's, it's testament to your own commitment to retraining your brain. And yeah, thank you for sharing your story. And now we'll go to George, your son in fact, who will also share his, his story as well.

Brilliant.

Thank you. Hi there, George.

Hi. Hello.

Hi there. So thank you for coming on to our Facebook live here as well. And yeah, do you want to, I guess in a similar vein, just tell us where you're, where are you, where are you based at the moment?

I'm living in Sheffield at the moment, but obviously I'm from, I graduated last year from uni here. Obviously I'm from Norwich as well. Same as dad.

Okay. And yeah, do you want to describe your story in terms of how you felt before you got Covid? So you know, in the months leading up to it and then what happened when you contracted COVID 19.

Yeah, gladly. So leading up to it I got Covid. Probably noticed I had it symptoms first a week after dad first did so third week in March beforehand I was in my last year doing engineering at uni and I'd come home because of COVID like sort of anticipation of a lockdown. So I'd rather be at home in Sheffield. And I was likewise in fairly good shape. Like I played quite a lot of volleyball, decent levels. So I was training. So like four or five times a week. So as you, I was in decent shape for a 22 year old. And when I actually had Covid again it was really mild. Like I've had colds that are worse. It really just wasn't. I didn't really think much of it and give it. I sort of took it quite easy for a week because I was thinking, okay, I don't want to do anything silly here. Like it maybe I'll get worse and got on my plate which finishing my degree. But I took it easy. But after that I was kind of thinking, yeah, I'm better. Like it's no big deal. I think I was very focused on uni work. So I was busy and a little bit stressed in that sense. But it was nothing like nothing I've done before, just exams and then likewise I'd start to do think, okay, I'm fine now, I'll go for a run, take it easy, but I'll go for a run. And then I feel okay at the time and afterwards. But then it's like it was always a day or two later that I'd then feel sick. Again, it was always the same. The best way to describe it was I felt hungover, basically, but obviously I hadn't had a drink. I felt tired, sort of really foggy, had a lot of brain fog and nauseous and sick. And this pattern basically continued all summer every. I was still able to do quite a lot first. Like, I could play a tennis match or I could go for a short run or a little cycle ride or play nine holes of golf or something. But every time I did it, and maybe I did a little bit too much, I would feel worse and then I would feel worse for longer and I would be able to do less the subsequent time. So I was able to push myself less and less and less, getting to the point where, likewise, October, November, I was really couldn't do much more than go for a walk, basically nothing more strenuous. And like, we started the program at the same time. And the reason particularly it was helpful. Like, it's obviously helpful because I have to say I'm better now, but I can sort of come back to normal. But the other thing is, in the moment, whilst I was ill, it was so useful to have a sense of agency, like, because I don't want to rag on the nhs, but the only stuff I got from them really was basically, don't overdo it and okay, great. But then I'm kind of just sitting around waiting to get better. Whereas with the program, I actually had things to be doing. So, like, I had the meditation to be doing two, three times a day, trying to have a routine in the morning and then doing the stops and the brain retraining. Like, I think particularly sort of the way I'm wired, like, having that sense of agency that I can actually be doing something to get better helps psychologically to cope with it so much. And also I think the thing that really helped me to get better, I think, is having this, like, understanding that or experiencing, rather than just simply understanding that it's kind of. This chronic fatigue is a loop in the brain that. So to have these times, this happens so often where I feel really sick and I'd be convinced that there's got to be something wrong my body. Like, I just feel so ill. And then I do a meditation on one of the guided ways of healing or a guided meditation, and then by the time I finish, I just felt normal. I felt completely normal again. And like, that's. That. That's not normal for, like, being ill, is it? You know, you don't just go like this. And I feel better now after 20 minutes of, of meditation. So having that happen over and over again, just really feel like it really drummed into my head that this is a loop in the brain. You stick at it, you will get better, I'm quite, quite glad to say so now last month or so I've been able to start exercising again. Leading up to that, sort of over Christmas, January, I was upping the workload. I was doing like normal work sort of 9 to 5. And now I've started training again, doing sport again. Like I said, don't get complacent. So I've not gone crazy. Kind of building up quite slowly. Don't want to do mental. But yeah, like I'm. It was always the case for all of this time, from March through to now, basically, or the last month. If I ever saw sport and television or thought about sport, I just thought seeing someone push themselves physically like that, that's just, that's impossible. Like if I do that, I'll feel sick. I can't. I honestly thought there's just no way I'm ever going to be, be able to push myself again. Like be in the gym and take a set to failure. It's just. I'll just feel sick. And then like literally today that's what I was doing and I feel completely fine. And I did that the other day and I feel fine now. Like it's. That's fantastic.

It's really. One second. It's really inspiring to, to kind of hear your story and I guess people would be really interested to know. How do you deal? Like I think Kevin had mentioned as well, how do you deal with those days when it's when you do feel really down with it or when you did and you're having to retrain, what is it that kind of kept up that commitment or saying, right, I'm going to retrain my brain. I have the tools now when actually your brain, your body just doesn't feel.

Like doing anything well, similarly to Dad. I found returning to the video is really helpful because I think it's. And this is where also I'm really glad that we're in the same boat because it was quite easy to kind of feel alone and like this is a weird novel thing. Um, so likewise reading about other people like in the newspaper that went through the same stuff or was going through the same situation. Um, because, yeah, the. Like with. Certainly because some people, the. With chronic fatigue and CFS and me, like, it's not that reassuring that a lot of people don't get better. Like when you look at the NHS statistics, so looking at the success stories you have, or just the confidence in the way you were speaking about it. And just like again, when you were describing the videos, the symptoms, and I'm like, yeah, that's exactly how I feel. And you can completely almost predict the future with how I would feel in days to come with some of the things, oh, if you do this meditation, this is likely to happen. It was so reassuring that it just gave me hope, basically.

Great, great. I'm just going to bring Kevin in as well, so. Hi there, Kevin. Hi. Yeah, the same question for yourself, because a lot of our viewers, either they perhaps don't have the Gupta program or perhaps many do, and they're doing it in those days when you felt, you know, quite down and thinking, you know, I've got this brick wall in front of me, how am I going to progress? What is it that really gave you that inspiration each day to commit to the tools and keep going, even if you weren't seeing results straight away?

I think it's because it was the thing that made me give me little glimpses of getting better. So when I do, as George says, when I do one of the meditations, and that would suddenly make you forget some of the symptoms you've got, make you start to feel a bit better, that gave you confidence to keep going with the program. I think it was partly just.

The.

Fact that I didn't have any alternative to what, as you say, you speak to your doctor at the moment they're so snowed under, they can only refer you to a clinic, who is to say, as George says, only advice they give you is just to rest more and take it easy and pace yourself back. And that doesn't work in isolation. So I think it's just the fact there was no alternative and I was determined to get well. That's what kept me going. Just to say to other people that you've just got to. Got to go with it. It's no good trying it for a couple of weeks and decide and just have no effect, because it will just be a gradual thing. It's not going to be an overnight thing, but that's our experience anyway.

I think also like something, if I may, that helped me stick with it is the. It's kind of like. It's not like it's a huge sacrifice, like, to commit the time. The time commitment isn't enormous. It's not like you have to rewire, like, your whole life and particularly some of the things in it, like, say, meditation which obviously makes up quite a big part. I think certainly most people these days seem pretty switched on to the benefits, like a meditation. And there's like, so much evidence in the literature of the psychological benefits and people talk about it so much. So it was quite useful, actually, in a sense that irrespective of, like, long Covid the like, the fact that we committed to meditation as part of the Gupta program meant we've stuck at meditation and hopefully we'll continue to do so so we can reap those rewards. So it's not like you're wasting your time, say, if it doesn't work. And it's like, well, that was wasted because. Not because you benefit from all of this stuff anyway. Like, it has benefits for the rest of your life generally. So it makes sense. Just as a commitment to me.

Yes. Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I think I also want to emphasize to people that because many people have tried meditation or doing meditation, first of all, the meditation obviously is a supporting tool. So it's something which supports the main brain retraining. But also the meditations that we encourage people to do are kind of unique in their own state as well, in the sense that there are mindful meditations, there's meditation with music, and they're designed for people with busy minds. Because I know many people who do the program never thought they would ever meditate because they've always had that idea, oh, I can't meditate. My mind doesn't, you know, naturally do that kind of thing, but actually have been able to. So I think that's. That's really important. And I think also it's emphasizing really to, I guess, individuals and the medical profession that this isn't psychological. We've got to be very, very clear here. This is a real physical illness where there's measurable changes in our physiology, in our immune responses, etc, and certainly we here at the Gupta program want to emphasize we aren't a psychological set of processes per se. It is neuroplasticity. It's brain retraining or brain rehabilitation. An example of this is when war veterans come back after they've been in a war zone and they perhaps lost a limb, so they've had a limb amputated. Now, what they'll find is the brain keeps taking inputs from that part of the body as if that leg still exists. And through specialized, once again, brain retraining, brain rehabilitation techniques, they're able to train the brain to recognize that there is no longer a leg there. Now, I wouldn't traditionally call That a psychological process that is a neuroplasticity brain rewiring process that requires commitment, repetition, etc. And that's a similar way how we define the Gupta program. It's a continual repetitive process of training the brain that we are no longer in that state of danger where the COVID 19 virus still exists in the body. Now, who knows, they may be some future research that shows that actually there are remnants of the virus in the body. We don't know. But the point is that by getting the body in the optimal healing state, it is its own best defender and it can begin to deal with any opportunistic viruses or infections that may be present in the body. And George, I was going to ask you the explanation of what caused COVID 19 for you. I mean, what's very interesting is that people might think people get long haul Covid if they've had it very severely, but actually in your case it was a mild infection and yet still had this effect on the brain, this unconscious effect. What aspect of the kind of hypothesis do you think really rang true? And you thought, okay, I can feel this. This process makes sense to me. Sorry to put you on the spot, by the way.

No, don't worry about it. Do you mean like in terms of the explanation of what, the vicious cycleness? Yeah, well, I mean intuitively, like logically, it definitely makes sense that. But also experientially, like, this is why I think meditation and mindfulness was really helpful because it made you quite switched on to look out for this. So you'd hear, you would explain in the videos, for example, what the mechanism is and what's happening. And you have like, your nervous system is sort of. It's like a vicious cycle. Like it's picking up its own symptoms as proof that it's still ill. Um, and then you think, well, I'd feel ill and then I'll worry about feeling ill and then I continue to feel like you, you notice it in real time, if that makes sense, when you start to look out for this. And obviously practicing mindfulness makes you better able to notice how you're feeling in real time and notice it as a thought or as a feeling as opposed to just getting caught up in it. So yeah, it was kind of like that two pronged approach that you understand it logically and then you would look out for it and experience it, which is then just further proof that this is exactly what's happening.

Exactly right. So there's an element of kind of intellectual understanding, but then also experiential understanding as well, to kind of match that. Because I think we always say to people, it's very important that you actually feel comfortable with the explanation and the hypothesis before you retrain. Otherwise you could be retraining, but then going off and believing something you've read on a Covid forum. For instance, a question for both of you. Did you find that it was useful to perhaps let go of some of the, I suppose, negative messaging or some of the other things that may have been going on around you and just focus on the program? Or were you okay, kind of still getting that messaging about what might cause it from other places?

No, I think it was. It really was negative when you started to hear other hypothesis and other people saying what was going on with COVID and what it was like. I think I was quite keen to avoid that and just stick with the hypothesis that you presented, which seemed to make sense, and have faith that that was going to. Going to fix me, which it appears to have done. So it was. It was a good choice. I think when you start reading horror stories, that just makes you feel more anxious and worse, and then that sort of makes the cycle even even greater. Because, I mean, the people quote that some of the doctors quoted me, that only like 10% of people get better, which is a really scary thought when you're not feeling well. Whereas, say you want to park all that and just concentrate on the hypothesis, the loop in the brain. I mean, that's a mantra now. It's just a loop in the brain, and that really helps. So I try to avoid all the negative stories.

Yeah, absolutely. Because although this is a new condition, it seems to follow some of the patterns of existing conditions. And our experience has been the earlier that you can catch it, certainly the first year, year and a half. And the prognosis is very positive and very good. So that's the inspiration that we want to give to people who are watching this, who perhaps are suffering from long Covid or, you know, somebody who's got long Covid. It's only been around for a year or so. And so with brain retraining, we think that, you know, the outcomes can be very good and very positive. George and Kevin, you know, it's been a pleasure to have you on our Facebook Live and for you to share experiences. Any final words that you want to share with our viewers who might perhaps. And then to our viewers, I just want to say, please do share this video on your Facebook page on social media, because literally there are hundreds of thousands of people who are suffering from this, whose lives have been completely destroyed by this. And we really want to give people hope that there is a way forward. So, George and Kevin, anything you want to finally share with everybody?

Yeah, basically, I'm somewhat reiterating the point we already made, but I definitely. You have to be patient and stick with it and commit. There's something you said at the start, one of the first videos that really resonated, really helped with this, that imagine, you said, imagine that I gave you like this magic pill and it just. I guarantee you take this and you'll just be better in six months. How much? How positive? And how much less you'd be worrying about the future and being ill if you had that reassurance. And obviously I don't want to say that is the case that you're guaranteed to be better in six months, because it's not necessarily the case, but.

You.

Just have to stick with it because you don't have a guarantee that you'll be better instantly. And it can often seem like tricky when you're not seeing the results instantly or if you initially get worse or you have these dips. But it pays off, as I think dad and I can sort of attest to or approve of to some extent. Yeah. If you stick with it, you'll get results.

Great. Thank you, George. Some, yeah.

Kevin, say exactly the same. It's worth sticking with it because when I would, when I was at my lowest, I couldn't ever see a way out of this, but I stuck with it. And now, as I say, I seem to be back to. Back to have my old life back, which made me ever so happy, obviously. So all I can say to people is just go with it, stick with it. It's your best bet, in my opinion.

Yeah, absolutely. And Kevin, George, would you describe yourselves as what, 95% better? 100% better. How would you describe it compared to before? COVID.

Like 100%. I don't really notice any difference, particularly now. The only reason I say 100 is because I'm not as fit as I was. Because as I say, I'm. Like you said, don't be complacent. I'm easing back up the level of activity. But I've had absolutely no evidence to say that I'm not better. Well, I couldn't do more. I just sort of playing it safe, so to speak.

Sure. No, absolutely, that makes sense, Kevin. I mean, you were already cycling 100km a week or something.

Yeah, yeah. So now I think I would say 100% as well. But with that same cautiousness that I want to keep I'm keeping with the retraining because I don't want to I don't want to go back to the sofa, as it were. And I think and keeping the meditation because that's a real plus in my, in my life now doing that. I think I'm almost better now that than I was previously because of the extra tools on there.

Absolutely. So, Kevin and George, it's been wonderful to have you on our Facebook Live. Thank you so much for taking the time. And also, there's a vulnerability in, you know, appearing here and sharing your story. So thank you so much for that. So for everybody else, we'll be doing another Facebook Live in a couple of minutes where I'll be answering any questions you have about Long Haul Covid. Perhaps you're suffering from Long Haul Covid or you know, somebody who is, any questions you might have about our treatment, about our hypothesis. And I'll go through that in a couple of minutes time. So if you're joining us on the Gupta Program Facebook page, wherever you're joining us, just give us a couple of minutes. We'll start another Facebook Live and we'll answer your questions through that. But for the moment, we have a webinar series starting right now has already started this week. So if you do choose to join the Gupta Program, we actually have a 15% discount right now using the code word study, and it's available@guptaprogram.com so thank you for watching and please do share this on your social media. Thank you and goodbye.