The Impact of a Narcissistic or Borderline Parent/Relative- Q & A | Ashok Gupta |

Hello and a warm welcome back to our Facebook Live, the second part of our Facebook Live, where we'll be answering your questions on what we covered in the first part, which was our presentation on did you have a parent or someone in your life that exhibited borderline or narcissistic traits and what impact may it have had on your childhood? So let's go to your question. So in the Q and A box, or rather the comments box, of this particular Facebook Live for any questions that you have, I'd love to see if I'm able to answer them. Once again, we here at the clinic are very clear that we aren't experts on borderline or narcissistic personality disorders. But we really do see a lot of clients who are the children or the adult children of parents who've had these traits. And so we'll do our best to answer your questions. Certainly interested in your comments. And once again, I hope that we've really emphasized this idea of not wanting to label other people, because these labels in and of themselves are also not necessarily accurate. They are an assessment of a. Of certain traits that when put together, creates, you know, a profile. Okay. Some people saying, yeah, I hope you. Yes, I do hope you enjoyed the. The. So. Okay, so we have a question here from Bill. Can a narcissist ever be reasoned with? Ask Bill. You know, I can only give my personal experiences in this particular area. So now I'm answering from a personal perspective. I have had those types of personalities that have appeared in my life, and they can be very difficult to reason with because, remember, when the strategy is so powerful, why would they want to reason with you? They have no benefit in reasoning with you. And sometimes the only impact that it has is if there is actually a separation from that person so they recognize the consequences of those actions. But, you know, I would certainly say, never stop trying. You never know. Each. There's no such thing as a narcissist. There is a whole spectrum of people with narcissistic traits. So there can be possibilities for mutual understanding and acceptance and healing. But it can be tricky and difficult. And sometimes I'd actually say, why do you want to reason with them? If you've tried and you haven't been able to reason, focus on your own healing. And that can be much more powerful. Rather than trying to change somebody else, we can't even find it hard to change ourselves, never mind another person in our lives. David asks, can by healing yourself now, can you heal adult children? I have a child who has a borderline mother and she. Parental. Alienated me from her. Okay, David. So in this particular situation, I would say that all healing starts with the self. Yes, absolutely. When you're able to heal yourself, it brings the self centeredness, the balance, the correct energy to then make the right decisions in your relationships. And that's why mindfulness and meditation can be so powerful when you experience this. Yeah, yeah. Now, someone asking about a parent who's still narcissistic and perhaps still controls me. So thank you for asking that question. This we do also hear time and time again. And what's really important here is hopefully today's presentation helps you understand the interplay, that there is a complex web of enmesherments where the needs of the mother or the father who has those narcissistic traits enmeshes with the needs of the child. So the child now becomes an accessory to being, to supporting the parent's sense of self. And even once we're an adult, we find it difficult to reject that dynamic. Now, why is that? Because parents can have such a hold on us through that emotional blackmail, through that shaming and that guilt, we feel a sense of shame and guilt that I'm not supporting that person. If I'm not meeting their needs, if I'm not helping them heal, then I'm bad. And then we experience that shame. And that is the device with which certain people are able to keep us in that dynamic. And so if that is the case, once again, I do encourage you to seek help, to seek out coaching or therapy to understand how you can de mesh from that situation, break free, and move forward on your own so that you are not still a child. You see, if the dynamic is still there, then it means that your inner child doesn't have the opportunity to grow up and become you and integrate with you and be fully integrated and loved. Because the child is still experiencing the dynamic from years and years ago. So nothing's changed. So look at that sense of control. Recognize. It's beautiful that you've recognized that the control is still there. And work with a therapist to really help unlock that so that you can grow into the maturity that you deserve. Jerrianne asks, what is the best way to address the physical residue, especially the physical tension of the trauma from growing up with pervasive NPD and bpd once retraining has been well employed. So when she talks about retraining, she's talking about the brain retraining within the Gupta program. Okay. So in these particular situations, it's the same thing. The deep breathing and meditation can be very powerful to support the retraining. And then secondly, many of our coaches in the Gupta program, although they aren't necessarily trauma therapists or some of them, can deal with trauma, complex trauma. Many of our coaches are what we call trauma informed. So whilst they may not treat the trauma directly, they are trauma informed. They understand what trauma is and how it may impact on the adult. So they can certainly support you in your healing as an adult rather than going into the past necessarily. And that can be also a very beneficial way of healing. And there are other techniques, you know, eft, the tapping, the emdr, formal trauma therapies involving mindfulness and meditation that can all support healing once you've grown up. Alexandra says and comments, these diagnoses are responses to trauma. People get really caught up in the label and may want to consider what happened to the person instead of what's wrong with them. Sure. You know Alexandra, this is very, very much a complex topic. And these, as I've mentioned, these are profiles. We're profiling people to try and push them artificially into slots. At the same time, those slots can be useful to understand because there are some pervasive traits that I see time and time again. But at the same time, as I said with today's presentation, what I attempted to do was go deeper into understanding why they behave, the way that they behave, and each individual trait, how it might impact on the child. Dina says, my mother was a narcissist but but also had elements of BPD and I've had CFS for 32 years. Thank you for sharing, Dina. Rebecca asks, I live in my second narcissistic marriage relationship. I find it difficult to leave. Is my healing dependent upon leaving this relationship? Especially since I realize that he isn't changing. Right Rebecca, Very important. It isn't for me to say whether someone should leave a relationship or not really leave a relationship. Once again, I really encourage everybody to seek out a coach or a therapist that you have a rapport with that can help you through these difficult decisions in life because they are complex decisions and this is not something where someone can give an answer. Perhaps you can heal in the marriage. Perhaps you need to leave the marriage to heal. It's so many complexities within that, but at least you are heading in that direction. You recognize the need to heal and you recognize that you're in another type of relationship which you may have unconsciously attracted into your life. Jill asks, I'm 62, a 62 year old female. My mother was both BPD and narcissistic have four diagnosed autoimmune syndromes and testing now for EDS. My body is falling apart. 17 years of talk therapy didn't help much. Can your program help me? Okay, so, Jill, our program is very much around treating chronic conditions. And so if you have been diagnosed with one of the chronic conditions that we treat, then, yes, we believe that we could help you with the condition itself. And yes, many people have found as they come into our program, it's also supported their natural healing from past traumas, from past dynamics and interactions. So, Jill, I would love for you to go to our website to have a look at the different conditions that we treat. And if you've been diagnosed with one of those conditions and you've been through the traditional medical route, then I'd encourage you to try our program and see how it can support your healing. Tessa asks, what tactics do you have for dealing with intrusive memories of their behaviors? Right, Tessa. So if you've identified this in yourself, this shows you that the trauma is very much just under the surface and repeatedly keeps bubbling up and sending up those intrusive memories. So the tactics are first and foremost to work with a therapist, a trauma trained therapist, who can support you through understanding, healing, and awareness. That's incredibly important and as we said, supporting that through mindfulness and meditation. Because when those intrusive memories come up, imagine our minds are like a pressure cooker. When we've been through traumatic experiences, the heat builds up, the pressure builds up within our unconscious, and that pressure wants to be released as an adult. So each time we release the pressure valve, more and more of those intrusive memories, those intrusive emotions, those unresolved emotions, bubble to the surface with a background of trauma. And what we want to do is each time the memory comes up, if we get involved in the memory and catch onto the memory, then we actually create more heat within that pressure cooker. Instead, through mindful awareness, we want to stay in that centered space, allow these emotions and feelings to bubble up and be released from that pressure cooker, as a curious observer, as being objective as possible. And that can be more healing than getting, allowing those memories to overwhelm us. Yes. And someone is adding here. If I try to pull back from my mother, I think, who had narcissistic traits, she plays a suicide card if silent treatment doesn't work. Yes, unfortunately, this is a strategy that we've seen. It is well documented. So once again, I'd encourage you to work with a therapist to look at what you can do in those Situations and what are the best strategies? Iona asks, how do you deal? How do you heal in fact from the pain of relating to narcissists? You see that pain was experienced at a certain moment in your life. If we hold on to the blame and the anger and the guilt and the shame, we stay stuck in the past in order to heal that. As we went through that process there, there's a process first of all of awareness and then understanding. And that's just that first step that we've taken today, awareness and understanding of some of these dynamics and these interplays that may have impacted on us. And that that next step is really how do we grieve for our past? Are we still holding onto sadness and grief about the childhood that we didn't have? Are we holding on to anger to one or more parents that can also be crippling to our emotional sense of well being? So is there any anger or hurt that we need to let go of? Once again, working with a coach or therapist, and once we've done that, once we've been able to release that anger or those pent up emotions, that pain that we experience, then we can begin to heal the inner child. What is it that that child within you needed that it wasn't able to get? What resources did it was to able require? And now you literally. And we have an inner child process which is within the Gupta program where we get to actually speak to these parts of us which have become isolated and fearful and actually have a conversation to nurture and heal these wounded parts because they're there, they need reparenting. And through this inner child work, we have the ability to say I love me rather than I need you to love me or you didn't love me. I love me. And that is the only thing in fact that can fill that yawning gap within. And a lot of the time we look to our romantic relationships to fill the gap and our partners become a proxy for one or more of our parents. And initially there's all the euphoria of being in that romantic relationship. Oh wow, this person completes me. And in some senses, falsely, you feel they have completed you because they've given you permission to love yourself. Because finally this person understands me and loves me unconditionally. But then as time goes on, there is no way that person in your life can keep filling that yawning gap within you. And that's when the relationship suddenly doesn't meet your needs. And you think, does that person really love me? Are they really showing me love and attention. Because that inner wounded child can't possibly believe that someone else could show me this unconditional love. And so either we become an anxious attachment style in that relationship or we become avoidant. So rather than looking from the outside for that healing, we then turn inwards and say, I heal me, I love me. That's far more important. And when we can feel that strong sense of inner resilience, the self love, I have all the love within me for myself, anything from the outside is a bonus, then we really feel so much stronger inside. We feel that connection to spirit as well. Because no one on the outside ever can make you feel loved. They simply give you permission to love yourself. So in that sense, all love might end up being self love. Harriet shares here very bravely. Thank you for sharing. Both my parents had most of the traits of BPD and NPD and they're now both dead. I now have traits of BPD and have done years of dbt. So DBT is dialectic behavioral therapy. I'm stuck at the self love part though. I'm emotionally intelligent and aware, but my self hatred is so loud and I'm stuck there. And that self hatred is often from, once again, the inner critic. That inner critic, especially if both of your parents had BPD and npd and I really sympathize with that situation. If both your parents had that, then the inner critic is the voice inside that may not allow you to self love. Because the moment you want to self love, that inner critic says, no way. You're not worthy of this. And all I would say to you is Harriet, keep going. There is a way through this. Eventually the mind will get it. It will catch up. It's designed to do that. We are neuroplastic beings. They used to think the brain was fixed, but we know from neuroplasticity that in fact our brains are malleable. They're flexible, they're constantly rewiring. So through brain retraining or other different methods, there is a way that you can gradually get to that place of self love. So keep trying, please. Someone sharing. I'm in a relationship with a BPD man who fits all nine criteria and also diagnosed with mpd. Seeing him or any communication at all leaves me drained, traumatized and exhausted. What can I do? So Dina, once again, as I mentioned to the previous person, this is a very complex situation. I can't possibly be give you advice. But working with a coach or therapist is so important for you here to really unpick what you're experiencing. In that relationship, how it's impacting on you, and whether this is the right relationship for you to stay in or not. David Shares thank you. I think I developed MCS around this situation and the emotional drama. Yes. So mcs, multiple chemical sensitivities often develop in people who have the safety seeker response where there is a lack of safety, a lot of emotional drama and the child doesn't feel safe and grows up so that then that safety generalizes to physical safety. So then chemicals and mold and external triggers become a proxy for the dangerous situations we experienced as a child. Joan asks, do you think it takes longer to heal when you actually have been abandoned by your parents? Joan that's a very good question and I'll be totally honest. I don't know is the honest answer. That's something that an experienced professional would only be able to answer in that situation. Someone asking about the crossovers between autism and bpd. So as I've expressed before, I'm not a psychiatrist or formally trained to be able to diagnose these conditions. I do know there can be crossovers between BPD and autism spectrum disorders where there can be a misdiagnosis. So once again, please do speak to a specialist about that. Zola Just saying. It's made me weep that someone so knowledgeable just acknowledged me. Thank you. My pleasure. Zola Rebecca asks, does one need to get away from the NPD in order to heal? As I mentioned to the previous question, it really depends on how severe the NPD is. If you are in a relationship or there is a parent in your life, where there is continual, severe narcissistic traits that are impacting on you, just like we've described in this presentation, then I would say it would be very important that you are able to separate from that person, whether it be temporarily or permanently, to be able to heal your inner core. Because if you're still stuck in that dynamic, in that relationship, then all that's happening is the wounded child. Tina the ballerina is constantly being re triggered. It's not as if the situation is still back in childhood. It's real here and now. So how can the child within you grow up and become an adult and heal if the same dynamic is running from so many years, from so many decades? So you may need to get away from the person to heal if it's depending on the severity of it. But I can't give you that answer. Yes, sometimes, and we see this comment here, sometimes there are people in our lives. If we abandon them or we don't want to be around them because we've got to heal ourselves first. They do threaten all kinds of things. They threaten self harm or suicide, all kinds of things in order to manipulate them. And this can be very challenging and someone sharing here. I'm growing up now into my adult self and I've become unenmeshed. Good word, unenmeshed. And it's been a massive shift and a positive for me. I've worked with a therapist and with coaches. Yes, this is very important. If you're still enmeshed with someone who has BPD or npd, it can be very difficult to let go because you still feel responsible for that person and they can exhibit threats if you abandon them. But actually to become unmeshed, focus on your own healing and your own self. And that self love can be incredibly powerful. And as this person shared, the other person didn't go ahead and self harm in those situations. Cheryl says, I think it can be good to understand npd. But staying with a narcissist or abusive relationship causes illness. Dr. Romini is a good source for women or men in toxic relationship. She's got a whole series on narcissistic personality disorder. Sadly, NPD can't be helped. The person doesn't think there's a problem. And yes, that's one of the challenges with NPD is that how could someone with NPD possibly admit that there's something wrong with them? Because to do so would be to suddenly look inwards and reveal the yawning, gaping pain within them. Narcissism is an attempt to cover up and hide the pain within with a massively thick shell, a strong shell that is only shown to others. So to actually break that shell and go inwards can take lifetimes. So I understand Cheryl's point of view is that staying in a narcissistic, abusive relationship can only cause illness. Shamini says, do you believe those with NPD can heal? I believe that everyone has the capacity to heal, yes, for sure. And everyone is on their journey and anyone who has npd, I feel incredible compassion for the experiences that you've gone through and the shell you've had to create. But remember that each of us will experience situations, people in our lives that inevitably will end up needing us to become aware. That is just the nature of this manifestation system that we live in. Salimaas may EMDR be a possible treatment option? Yes, there are certain therapists who use EMDR to support healing. There's eft, there's trauma recovery, there's a whole suite of different treatments that can facilitate healing. And I encourage you to seek out what works for you. Michelle asks, so when you say work with a therapist, do you mean a Gupta therapist? Okay, so on our website, guptaprogram.com coaches some of our coaches are trained to work with people with trauma. Most of them are trauma informed, which means that they don't necessarily treat trauma, but they can certainly help you recover from chronic illness with an awareness of background trauma. Zola shares it scares me doing the work. It feels like such a huge can of worms. I'm too scared to take the lid off in case I can't cope. Sure, I understand. And that's why working with a compassionate coach and therapist who really understands these types of conditions and takes it gently, step by step. All I will say is that in some ways, why are we here? Why are we here on this planet? Maybe we're here to evolve and move to the next stage of our evolution. And maybe that will mean navigating some of these painful situations and experiences that we've been through and resolving them. I will say is that in some ways, why are we here? Why are we here on this planet? Maybe we're here to evolve and move to the next stage of our evolution. And maybe that will mean navigating some of these painful situations and experiences that we've been through and resolving them. But if we don't do that, the alternative is a constant bubbling up of these experiences that will continue to impact on our adult lives anyway. So either way, the pain has to be observed, held in a bubble of love and released. You can only release that which you hold. So if you push it down, it stays stuck. The moment you allow it to come up and observe it with a mindful state of awareness and hold it and briefly observe it and then allow it to be released, you can only release that which you are able to hold in your hand. Jake asks, thank you for this. I'm a past program user. What is the likelihood of a child of a parent with one of these conditions exhibiting the same traits or conditions? It can happen. We've looked at the research. There's not necessarily a definitive link, but maybe the one or two traits can occur because we integrate or imbibe some of the traits that we observe in our parents. So how our parents behave inevitably, even if we say, I don't want to be like that, there's inevitable unconscious copying that can be experienced. And Jake's also asking, I'm experiencing intense hyper vigilance from a large amount of sound in my house. Yes. So if you're Jake, if you're past program user, I would encourage you to be a current program user. If you've been using the old program, perhaps have a look at the new program and restart the retraining so you can retrain some of these anxious responses around sound. Magdalena says, how can you protect young children from narcissistic parents? Are there any tactics that can be used to minimize the impact of the narcissistic parental behavior? Very good question. So this is out of my area of expertise. What I would say is that it's absolutely the right thing to do to see what we can do to support the children's self esteem, to protect them from the kind of more damaging aspects of narcissistic parents and build up their sense of inner core, inner strength so that once again would be require the experience of a child therapist. Shamni sharing I've learned the brain rewiring tools to have ways to calm and cope and ways to have joy in my life on purpose, daily. You'll know when it's time to start down this journey. It is a process of learning what on earth even occurred, then feeling angry about it and a loss of childhood I didn't have and a loss that I can't have, the relationships with my mum and my brother that I want to have. So that's the grief, the understanding and then the grief and then letting go of that grief. That is almost like a grief cycle. This anger, there's sadness. What? Oh my God. This is what happened in my childhood. I wish it hadn't happened. And then moving to that process of acceptance. It was a big process of speaking my truth and feeling very vulnerable and having no contact and unenmeshing. But I've been emerging out of this and building my true self and building primal trust. This is what we talk about as step three of the Gupta program, which is developing that loving, wise self, that true self, that primal trust in life and yourself and the world around you in this universe. So it's beautiful, Shamni, that you've been working on that. Yeah, Good. Well, I want to thank you for the bravery you've shown in asking some of these very deep questions. I hope I've done my best to be able to answer them and show you options for the future in terms of where you can go to support your own healing. So thank you so much for watching our main event and obviously this Q and A. Please do share the main video on your social media, in other groups, groups of people who are perhaps in the healing modalities. We'd love to get this information out there from our experience of chronic illness especially. So it's been wonderful to be here. I hope it's been healing for you. And in a couple of weeks time we're going to be doing another Facebook live on the importance of joy and laughter in healing from chronic conditions. And in the future, because it's been such a popular topic, I hope to bring on some experts who regularly work with people in this area, people perhaps some of the authors of the books that I've mentioned to really get a deeper understanding and healing for all of our clients. So thank you so much for watching. It's been an amazing journey that we've been on to today. I look forward to seeing you next time and once again, hang in there. Connect to that beautiful, strong, powerful spirit that you truly are. When you recognize that within you, you'll realize that all these small things that happen in your life, we can put them in perspective and realize that you're more stronger, more grander, more powerful. You are pure bliss and love that has the ability to move through with grace and discover your true potential. So much love and light, much healing and see you next time. Thank you and goodbye.