GA 092 | How to Restart Your Lean Transformation with Zane Ferry

You're listening to episode 92 with Zane Ferri.

Welcome to the Gemba Academy Podcast, the show that's focused on helping individuals and companies achieve breakthrough results using the same continuous improvement principles leveraged by companies such as Toyota Del Monte and the U.S. department of Defense. And now, here's your host, Ron Pereira.

Hey there. This is Ron Pereira with Gemba Academy, and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the Gemba Academy podcast. As always, thank you so much for taking time out of your day and your week to listen to the show and for watching our Lean and Six Sigma trading videos over@gembaacademy.com now this is the first podcast here in 2016, so happy new Year to everyone listening. Hopefully everybody had a nice New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, and you were able to kind of relax and reflect on the year that was in the year that's that's coming. I know we're very excited for 2016 here at Gemba Academy. We have lots of fun things in store and many of them are well on their way. So as always, thank you for listening to the podcast. 2015 was a fantastic year for the podcast. The numbers grew and more and more people listened to each and every show. So thank you for that. Thank you for tuning in. Now today I'm excited to welcome my friend Zane Ferry to the show. Now, Zane, I've known Zane for quite some time and he's a prolific lean thinker. And as he shares, he's known my business partner John Miller for many years. In fact, Zane and John have many similarities. They both lived in Japan and actually worked together. When John first started his consulting business many years ago, Zane was part of that. So really great guy. And I think today's episode is really appropriate, really. Zane is going to talk about kind of how to reinvigorate or kind of restart, if you will, A lean transformation. Perhaps you've been on a journey for a while and things have stalled a little bit and you, you need to kind of bring some spark back into it. So Zane said are going to really talk about that and offer a lot of good insight. And even if you're well on your way with your lean journey, obviously, as we know we can always do better. So I think many of the things Zane shares is going to be appropriate for everyone. Now, show notes for this episode can be found over@gembapodcast.com and just look for episode 92. So again, just go to gembapodcast.com and look for episode 92. All the links and everything that we talk about in the episode will be found there. Okay, well enough for me. Let's get to the show. All right, Zane, well, thank you so much for taking time to visit with us. Where are you calling in from?

Calling in from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Today.

Yeah. Yeah, It's a balmy 70 degrees today there. Is that how it's going to be?

Well, you know, it's been like that lately. It's really been disappointing in many ways, but finally it's starting to snow just a little bit. It's going to stay under freezing today. And, you know, people are happy about that.

I shouldn't laugh. You know, it's early morning here right now. As you know, it's 32 degrees out here in Texas right now. But I have family in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and they were telling about their flip flops the last few weeks, and now they're in snow. So, you know, it's.

Yeah, you know, it's time for a little bit of a white Christmas up north here. So that's what we're wishing for.

Exactly. Very, very good. All right. Well, Zane, I'm excited to talk about kind of restarting Lean Transformation. This is the first podcast year in 2016, and so I think it's very apropos to be talking about this, but before we get into that, why don't you kind of tell everybody a little bit about your background and possibly how you first came to learn about continuous improvement.

Yeah, you know, it really started in Japan for me. I went over to Japan right after my, you know, got done with my undergrad degree, and I wasn't going there for the Toyota production system or to learn more about continuous improvement. I was, as, you know, a blank slate. I didn't know anything about anything. I was going there for other reasons. But when I did get there and had the opportunity to join a Japanese company, which wasn't part of my plan either, it was a manufacturing company, automotive supplier, and I was very quickly immersed in what eventually I understood to be Toyota production system practices and so forth. So that's where it all got started for me. I spent a long time there about 11 year. Toward the end of that time, I got to know John Miller. Obviously he's close to you, been close to you over the years. And then when John and Brad Schmidt came back and they started again in Seattle area, I quickly joined them and learned a ton from those guys. And John continues to be an important person to me professionally, personally. And, you know, the journey continues since getting back to the States in 1998 or so. I've had, you know, the privilege to, you know, to work with lots of good people, lots of good companies in different industries. And I can't tell you how much fun and how much of an education that's been, you know, dropping in and trying to contribute and trying to learn, you know, what the challenges are in healthcare, in aerospace, you know, all kinds of different industries. And there's so much that is the same as I'm sure all of your listeners will be familiar with. And then there's all of that unique stuff that comes with the unique group of people and product and customers.

Where are you working these days?

I'm at Polaris Industries now. We're headquartered in Minneapolis. Produce manufacturing facilities around North America and one in Europe and a couple that are starting up elsewhere. But another reason to hope for snow, because the whole history of Polaris started with the invention and development of snowmobiles. We make motorcycles and all terrain vehicles and a lot of other really cool things. Maybe you saw in the news our slingshot, which is this, you know, crazy fast and terrifically engineered asphalt surfing vehicle. It's just amazing.

Now what do they do at the facility that you're at right now?

Well, you know, this is interesting too. I'm at the corporate headquarters, which is here. What do we do? We try to run the business.

Yeah.

But I can tell you, not being attached to any of our production facilities directly right on site makes it more challenging, you know, especially when it comes to the, the operations and production related aspects.

Yeah.

Of an organization. So I mean, if it were up to me and I, you know, that's not how I would design things. But we all know that, that companies come into existence in a variety of conditions and circumstances, so.

Yeah. Well, good opportunity to travel around and go to Gemba in a different kind of way, I guess. Right?

That's true. We got plenty of Gembas right there in our finance, accounting, sales, marketing and all these other areas.

Fantastic. All right, well, Zane, you know the drill. You've listened to the show for a while. So as you know, we like to start everything with our guests giving a quotation or two that possibly inspires them. So do you have one?

There's lots of them that come to mind, but one in particular is universally applicable in my personal life, my professional life, everywhere. And it's from Shigiyo Shingo's, I think oft misquoted when it comes to improvement. How do you start? What's the progression? Easier, better, faster, cheaper in that Order. And it's just so true. And in order to make things easier, regardless of what type of activity you're involved in yourself or that you're working on with someone else, you've got to ask questions because you simply. The assumptions don't necessarily lead you where you really need to go. So I'm a big fan of that. It's short, it's sweet.

And you think it's misunderstood because people just jump to the cheaper.

Well, naturally I think they also get it. They think perhaps the word order faster, easier, better, cheaper, cheaper, better, faster, easier. I mean there are four words that seem to get mixed around in different orders depending on the bias or the situation that a person finds themselves in. But you know, it's interesting that Shigo Shingo himself said in that word.

So obviously people were getting it wrong even in his time.

Well, clearly, I mean, and he obviously a brilliant man that really distilled a lot of wisdom and helped to true industrial engineering discipline and principles really codified those in a way that made sense and that could be applied universally. So they must have been. I wasn't there. Yeah.

You know, Jane, I have a one question. Just I'm fascinated with people that have lived and worked in Japan. And now you spoke, you speak Japanese, correct? Or you at least did.

I did, I did, I do. I don't get to use it quite as much now, I'm sorry to say.

But yeah, yeah. Well, I'm curious, like when you are working there and those, what would you say, 11, 12 years, something like that?

That's right.

Did they, when you guys were practicing, you know, continuous improvement, tps, whatever you want to call it, were they running around kind of talking about Shingo and Ono and things like that, or was it just kind of an organic thing that they just did?

Well, it kind of depends on where you were and what time it was in the sense that. Was it the late 80s, was it the early 90s? The late 90s. So you know, when I was there in the late 80s to the early 90s, there was, you know, if you were, let's say a Toyota supplier and you naturally had criteria to meet NAND standards and baselines to improve upon. If you were receiving consulting advice and guidance from anyone from the Toyota mothership there, from some of the older gentlemen, you would definitely hear reference to more often Ono than, than Shingo. But it kind of depended, depended on where that individual got their training and what their particular emphasis was. But, but I would say Ono stories, lots of, lots of fantastic, fear inspiring stories. About Ono and. And I later realized too, that there were, you know, direct teachings from. From Shingo and quotes of his that were a part of what I was learning and a part of the way I was being taught. But he. He wasn't maybe referenced as readily by name for some.

I got you. I got you. All right, well, Zane, let's dig in a little bit. So, you know, obviously, and I guess, I don't know, unfortunately, it seems as though many continuous improvement transformations, lean transformations, fail. I don't know how else to say that, but. And ultimately they need to be. They may need to be restarted or perhaps maybe fails. Too strong of a word. Maybe they just kind of stall a little bit and they need to be reinvigorated. And perhaps, you know, it's the early part of 2016 right now, maybe someone's listening to that and saying, yeah, that's us. But first question I have is, why do you think this happens? Why is it that they. That they stall or fail?

Well, I think you're right. I mean, if you hear numbers thrown around, everything from 70% to 98% of initial lean transformation efforts fail. And quite frankly, I don't know what the real number is myself. And I also have to admit that I don't have the answer. If I did, I think a lot of things would be different. But I do have some of my own personal experiences that I reflect on a lot. And I think to say that they fail in most cases is an overstatement because as with so many things that involve learning, it's not a one and done kind of effort. And you don't get a home run when you're out to bat the first time. In fact, if you get a single, you're off to an unusually good start.

Exactly.

So those initial efforts have laid the groundwork in many positive ways and kind of planted seeds that haven't emerged yet. At the same time, the promise that most leaders of those efforts make are usually very emphatic and very confident and inspiring. And so when. When a full fledged sustainable system of improvement with all kinds of good standards that are easily accessible and great communication among team members, and then the performance results showing up for the company when some or all of those things don't materialize in the time frame that's often promised, people get disappointed naturally. And so they either give up or they find themselves just overwhelmed with the old ways of doing things. And so positive seeds have been planted there and interesting and valuable reference points that can be resuscitated in the future. There but then there's also resistance and, you know, also the emotional and the psychological sense of disappointment. I mean, who wants to go through that again? So I think a lot of times it's a matter of expectations and it's simply a matter of human nature. We want things to go beautifully, be a love affair that lasts and lasts and walk off into the sunset, but it's just not the way we learn as people.

But circling back to, like, do you have any theories on why it happens? Like, what are some of the major pitfalls?

Well, I believe that communication is a huge part of why some work and many do not. We have the assumption because we talk to each other like you and I are talking this morning, that we understand what we mean and that we are conveying a message. Because I understand what I want to say. I understand maybe a vision that I have for my team or a group of people. And we underestimate how much work and planning and simple repetition of a consistent message that that takes. And so in many cases that I've personally been involved in, a lack of sufficient, say, strategic communication and having an actual deliberate plan for communicating to the many different types of people in a company, whether it's in terms of their function, in terms of where they are in the organizational chart, or special expertise or influence that they have. I believe a lot of the success and. Or failure is defined in how well we communicate and how well we understand the phases of communication. You know, so, yeah, yeah.

Obviously, if you can't explain why you're doing it or, you know, how we're gonna do it, that you're gonna. You're likely gonna struggle, you know, so. All right, well, let's talk about. Let's say that we're in a situation and things have stalled and we need to kind of restart them. What are the major challenges and. And possibly opportunities that. That you see?

Well, the challenges are that in many cases, good folks with experience, usually outside of the company in question, are brought in and asked to make this happen. We did this in the past, but something didn't go right and it hasn't stuck. Now we need you or you and a team of people to come in and just to bring it back to life. And, you know, that's an exciting time if you're a person who's being asked to help do that. But already the expectations are perhaps steering the people who are trying to lead this restart of a transformation and the people who are going to be participating in it as members of the organization already, their expectations may be steered down the wrong track. It's not like we're trying to pave an entirely new scenario here because most importantly I think in the beginning is to ask questions, tread gently, understand that there's a lot that's in place organically in an organization that is both a part of the important homegrown culture. But then if previous efforts at continuous improvement or lean have been made they're still there in many different forms. If you go out and look for them and build time in to the roadmap to look for those I get excited at that time because everything is so new and the opportunity to really become something of an archaeologist is there which is, I love that kind of look around the company, identify and speak with all kinds of different people with totally open ended questions. So it's clear to them that they were here before you and that what you're really interested in and it's genuinely authentic, you're interested in learning about what they know and what they've experienced and how can they help you really understand where the opportunities are, where the challenges were in the past from their perspective and that can lead to a lot of great discoveries, a lot of good relationship and trust building. That is really the very, very I guess I would call it pre work.

Yeah. When you think Zane, I'm curious. You think about the two pillars. Continuous improvement, respect for people. Obviously you've talked a lot right now about the respect for people side talking to people, asking questions, trying to understand previous challenges. How do you balance that? Let's say you go into an organization and you're doing that, you're talking to the people and then it becomes obvious that from a technical tactical perspective it's been done horribly wrong. You know, they just we're going to do 5s and everybody's got to have you know, labels on where your stapler goes and you know, clearly, clearly they've, they're not getting it. From a technical perspective how do you balance those two things? Because you could talk, you know why and you know, let's understand your challenges all you want but if they have no idea, you know, from a tactical technical perspective you're also going to struggle, right?

Well that's true if you go in expecting to find things that have been done extremely well and primarily that what you describe is actually the rule, you're going to find some tactical applications that have been well applied in pockets and where they've been applied to negative effect and actually caused some harm in terms of the, you know, the operations they were intended to improve. Are actually worse and actually to the involvement and the sort of the psychological acceptance of the folks who participated in that misapplied effort. But what you are finding is evidence of people having earnestly been involved in trying to improve something. And so what that represents is you're finding these earlier cycles of learning that may be ongoing. Maybe it's not apparent at a high level within the organization, but when you get down out to where the work is really happening, you see that it's not like everyone has given up on it. There were some concepts and some principles that really resonated with folks or with teams, and they're still trying to make it. Trying to make it work. So.

So it's almost like, if I hear you right, it's almost like, let's say you have seen how such and such tools being, you know, totally misapplied or misunderstood. But that could be an opportunity, a great thing, right? Like, hey, let's talk about that. You know, how did that make you feel when you were told that you had to put labels on every piece of, you know, every pen on your desk, you know, kind of thing? Oh, made me feel like, you know, and those are great opportunities, I guess, to get. Get those frustrations.

Well, they are, and you should expect that they're going to be frustrations. And if you go out with advice, you're already putting yourself and, you know, the organization at a disadvantage. You're going out looking for advice, and you may not agree with what you hear, but the mission and the challenge is to genuinely listen to what you're hearing and then take the opportunity, after doing that as broadly and deeply as you can, to reflect. And I'm talking about a day or a week, I'm talking about, you know, weeks and months. And at that point, people will know that you're really there to listen. And what you're going to discover as well are pockets and patches of real, genuine passion and pockets, pockets of real, genuine resistance and opposition to any new efforts. But you'll have a better idea about why that is. And that gets to the other pillar there, continuous improvement. Because there's a concept that I refer to, and as in most cases, the best tools and approaches that I use weren't mine to begin with. I've learned them from others before me. But I call it mio Minimum improvement opportunity. So when I'm out trying to learn an organization and understand how I can maybe contribute to resuscitating what's been done before, I'm looking for mios and what I mean by a minimum improvement opportunity is that there are in any organization that you go to of any kind, whether it's a service provider product, what have you, best practices that are already established. And you need to find those treasures, those nuggets, validate and acknowledge the value that they have there, including the people who've worked hard to establish them and then bring them, kind of excavate them and bring them to light at a higher level so that those best practices in one area can be again validated more publicly for the company that they can then be applied laterally. So and right there you're really working to raise the level of other parts of the company up together where they're looking internally, not at you, they're looking internally to things that they did do well and that are still working and that will often low hanging fruit, you get some of that low hanging fruit there. And before you maybe even have a team or even a clear roadmap in place, an interest in improving has been resuscitated. And it's not a new system, new standards, new rules, new ways, new people. No, it's none of that. It's the seeds that have already been planted there. And that gives people confidence. And you need to start with confidence based on something that exists already within that culture.

Yeah, I have to share a story. It's crazy that what you just said, you know, talking about, you know, publicly recognizing people and how powerful that can be. And you know, we've spent a lot of time in, in 2015 talking about brain chemicals, serotonin, dopamine, these sorts of things that make people feel good. And, and last night, as it turns out, my, my daughter, my, my oldest daughter, she's on a, she's a cheerleader. And, and we were at, they had a little before Christmas kind of event where they're showing off some new stuff or whatever. And so everybody's there and, and all of a sudden they were towards the end. And the coach brings my daughter over to where all the parents and siblings and whatnot are sitting and she brings her into the front, she says, everybody just excuse me, I want to just tell you about something. And my daughter, so you could tell like what are you doing? And my daughter's not like the type of person that likes this kind of recognition. Right. And anyhow, the coach goes on to say about, tells a story about how they were doing a routine the other day and it was pom poms or something were involved and, and, and there was a little girl, a younger girl on the team One of the youngest girls who forgot her pom poms, which, you know, to me. And you were like, okay, whatever, you forgot your. But this poor. This poor little girl was just like devastated. Right.

I imagine. Yeah.

And. And my daughter, she's the. She is the captain of the cheer team and she's one of the older girls and she. She just immediately, immediately walked over to that little girl and gave her her pom poms and told the coach, she says, you know, I can sit out. It's no problem. And the coach was just like, wow, you know, I mean, and. And so then she says, no, you're going to come and help me lead the girl. So my daughter actually helped to go kind of coach him up or whatever. So anyhow, my daughter kind of told me about it and she was. It was just like no big deal to her. Right. And. But. But then the coach brings her to the front and tells a story and. And I'm looking at my daughter and I'll be honest, like, very touching. Right. And the coach was actually tearing up when she's explaining about the leadership and the love and, you know, that it took to do that. And I looked at my daughter and I could tell she was becoming deeply moved. She was embarrassed, but you could tell it was really impacting her. So I guess the reason I share that is I think that something that we lean folks especially, and I want to stereotype, but men in particular we stink at, is really publicly recognizing people and saying, man, you did a fantastic job, you know, and doing it in front of other people, not just some private email saying, great job, Zane, you know, like really making a big deal of it. Because I think that from a brain chemistry perspective, like I said, you know, it can change people and literally can change them overnight and really set them on a better path forward. Because I could guarantee you my daughter had a skip in her step like I hadn't seen in quite a while after that little.

You must be a very proud father. I mean, that is, you've got a young little leader there. And she apparently didn't really even understand the gravity and the kind of impact that that seemingly small gesture on her part had. Yeah. But clearly her coach, another outstanding people leader, apparently based on his or her actions, recognized the impact and the value of that kind of example and, and then built on it as you described. I mean, that's a terrific story. And the fact that it happened so early in the life of your daughter, again, it just. It does. I mean, I get excited hearing about that. I mean, in fact, I have something that's right here in front of me at my desk and has a cute picture of a couple very young kids, you know, at the knee and on the lap of an elder gentleman. And it says, every adult needs a child to teach. It's the way adults learn. And this is an example where it's that genuine, authentic behavior from the heart of an unselfish child that really leads the way for adults. And I guess I'll join in the chauvinism here and turn myself in for being not as good as plenty of other folks around me at not just giving credit, but pointing the spotlight at other people in a way that helps to broadcast that incredible example that some of these other folks provide.

Yeah, fantastic. All right, well, so we talked a little bit about challenges and opportunities, but now let's kind of turn the corner and talk about best practices. Okay. We've committed to making this thing better, to relaunching it, to getting it going again. What are some of the things, some practical things people can do?

Well, I touched on one before and I think it's an easy, though not always obvious approach. The MIO Minimum Improvement Opportunity. Go on that treasure hunt out there and maybe that'll help lead you if you're responsible for resuscitating or restarting a transformation effort or if you're part of a team. So that's something you can do in the early phases, which then provides additional on the ground information, person to person transfer of existing knowledge in the organization so that you can begin to construct what I'll call a maturity path or a maturity roadmap. In order to get that started, you really need to understand where the organization has been over the past 2, 3, 5, 10, 15 years, depending on who's been in place at what levels in the organization for how long. So baselining the organization, even among people who do this really well can take serious amount of time and investment for the team. And in doing that, there needs to be a sense of this is more or less where we're at. And if you have a geographically dispersed set of plants across North America or across the world, then that's going to be even more challenging to kind of baseline get a sense of what's the language that's in place there, what does it mean, what do you see in the behaviors of leaders and then down through the organization that give you a strong sense of the opportunities, the early opportunities, and then the early challenges. And chances are high that you're going to need just not just one map of a, you know, a three to five year plan for progressing through a transformation. But you're probably going to need lots of smaller maps for this site, for that organization, for that function, to help them understand, paint a picture of where are we going? And then to help rely on them to fill in where they think they're at now. Because more than imposing a sense of standards and of expectations with a time frame by the team that's coming in to help build this, it's the people who are already there that need to decide where they think they're at as a starting place. So that's definitely a best practice there. And then as I mentioned earlier, really consciously understanding what does strategic communication mean? Do we have a strategic communication plan? Do we understand who the key stakeholders are throughout the organization, tip to toe? And that means people who are already primed and ready and been waiting for new effort, attention to continuous improvement. That also means the people who are currently very strongly opposed to it or very strongly resistant to it because all of those people have unique backgrounds and biases and are going to require certain types of communication.

What do you mean by communication? Are we talking like conference calls or going to visit people? I mean like really, I mean, someone's listening to this right now.

Absolutely, whenever possible. And then some. Make it face to face communication. You can follow up with email, you can involve people, invite people to webexs and meetings. And I definitely want to do all of those things. But first and foremost there needs to be face to face communication with those folks. And it's not always comfortable. You're going down to a level, you're going out to groups of people that you may not perhaps personally understand. Well, maybe you're in a new industry and you don't feel comfortable with the technology, with the product or the service. And so you feel at a disadvantage in terms of know how well, great, make use of that, be vulnerable. Present yourself in the context of really not knowing what they know and it'll come across authentically because it's true. That's out on the shop floor, that's out in the service departments, that's out in their sales and distribution networks. And then maybe you're going to be meeting with executives at a level that is 2, 3, 4 levels above where you are. So how do you get in front of those people for 5, 10, 15 minutes even just to make that face contact, Let them understand the sincerity of what you're trying to do. So face to face, There's nothing like it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, got it, Got it anything else, Zane, you can think of from a best practice perspective?

Well, there certainly are a lot of best practices and we could go on and on. Team building, drawing from the folks around you, making sure that you have a diverse group of people. If you're organizing centrally and you're looking at developing a Kaizen promotion office or a centrally structured opex, whatever it is, you need to look around and think about your own team. Do I have a diversity of experience? Do I have a diversity of opinions and viewpoints? Do I have people with different skill sets? Those things are really critically important because we've all got blind spots and the more diverse we are in our teams, the less likely we are to fall off a cliff because we had a blind spot in that area. We can cover each other. Those are a few of the basic things that are always on my mind.

Now this next question is going to sound like I'm setting myself up for a Gemba Academy plug, and I truly am not. But I'm curious, what is your perspective on the importance of learning from, you know, tactical or just learning about lean in general, like as you're relaunching a transformation?

Well, it's fundamental. I mean, let me be honest here, that I've had the opportunity to use Gemba Academy materials in a number of different instances at companies where I've worked and at companies where I've been privileged to provide some guidance as a consultant. So a lot of organizations understand or have heard that becoming a learning organization is something to aspire to. But it's often very unclear what that means. And training is a part of that. But it's also not just training about lean concepts and ways, tactical ways of making improvements, but it's about how do we learn, what are the different ways that as individuals we really grow. And so identifying what those are and what the culture in place is, is the culture about meetings and about doing things that way and that way only are they about hands on experience and they do sort of on the job training and that's the one way that they do it. What kind of learners have you got there? What kind of learning environments have you got there? So you get at some point very important, I'm glad that you did, is what kind of an environment is the organization that you're in and what are going to be those two, three key modalities, if I could use that jargon, to open people up to ways of learning that they are really going to respond to. That's always an open question too. And it's not easy. Does your company have a learning management system, for example? How do you, how do you know what training's already been done? Because you're going to generate frustration as well among folks if you're coming through for say the third time. And then in their 10 years of experience with a very didactic slide based 5S presentation, they've been through it through eight, 10 times before, like to avoid that kind of frustration, you know, if you can.

Right, yeah, yeah. Fantastic. So of everything that we've talked about so far today, all the best practices, all the challenges, opportunities, what do you think is the most frequently overlooked thing that tends to happen when people are reinvigorating their programs?

Well, I think it's going to vary naturally from person, person, organization to organization. But again it does tie back to what I said, what I mentioned earlier. At least this is my impression is that we often don't give credit or take the time to really personally find surface and then share the learning that's already taken place there in the organization. It's again me speaking from my perspective and my own personal failures. I know that I've gone in, in lots of times, thought I have something to bring, I have something to share, I have a vision that will help unify this and resuscitate this. And really the learnings for me have been no, no, no, no and no. It's me, me, me, me, me. And that's just human nature. Perhaps I'm on the far end, the extreme end of that spectrum, but human nature is so much about who we are and so overcoming. And even at the risk of being wrong, you're still doing better by leading with what's already there, surfacing and sharing what's already there through the people who have been there through past attempts than you are coming in with something new. I would say that that in my personal experience has been often overlooked and it's and a source of a lot of not always easy lessons for me.

Yeah. All right, well the last question I have in this section, Zane, and I don't mean to put you on the spot, so feel free to punch if.

You'D like it from you, Ron, Put me on the spot.

But I'm curious if any of the things that we've talked about today are relevant at your current company or perhaps maybe one of the previous companies that you've worked at.

Oh, absolutely. I mean I say that without hesitation. You know, at Polaris for example, I'm excited to be here. It's a very dynamic, energetic culture with a tremendous Amount of personal initiative and just damn smart people who are fun to work with. But we're all human beings and there are many of those same challenges that I talked about a little bit earlier are in place there. So we're early on still and in really formulating the path forward in terms of a lasting, sustainable transformation. And so there's so many best practices in place. And quite frankly, it's been a very fast moving organization that's been tremendously innovative. And what, you know, the other side of that coin is that maybe we haven't always taken the opportunity to pause and reflect and quantify the learnings and best practices in a way that we could then surface and share across the company to really leverage and multiply the improvements that have been made. So I think that describes where we're at. Yeah. All right.

All right, Zane. Well, let's go ahead and transition into the reflection section in this first question. We've kind of talked about it a little bit already, but I want to expand on it. We did talk about the two pillars, respect for people, continuous improvement, continuous improvements, the tools, the things that we do. But respect for people can be harder to define. So I'm curious, what does respect for people mean to you?

Yeah, sort of the million dollar question. To me, listening is fundamental to that. And when I say listening, I mean that individual that day in that situation where I may find them or they may find me, what's going on. And that's never an easy thing to discern. And depending on whether I had my coffee that morning or what the traffic was like on the way to work, chances are high that I've been put at a disadvantage before I even get to work and that I may project that onto somebody else either because preventing me from listening closely enough to what that person cares about right now. And I think that's a big part of respect for people, being able to understand what they're challenged by, what's going on for this person in the context of not just their work life, but what is it that's going on? And they may never share that. It's not appropriate in most cases to ask, but you may notice they may share some things that indicate there's stuff going on in the rest of their life. You know, they do have a life outside of work and that that influences their ability to do their best work when they're there on the clock. And so factoring all of that in and going back again to that original quote, easier, better, faster, cheaper, how can you make, based on what they're sharing with you what are the right things to support that will make their work, doing their best work easier. And if you start there, I believe that you're really showing a lot of respect to people and that they can then begin to spread that in the contact that they have with people on their teams and so on.

Very good. Zane, what's the best advice you've ever received?

Wow, there's so much my head spins just trying to think of what the very best is.

And John's listening right now, so, you know, make sure that's kidding.

Yeah, exactly. Well, two ears, one mouth, you know, listen at least. At least twice as much as you dare speak. And I'm afraid in the context, even this podcast, I probably failed.

Well, no, you're supposed to, though. I'm supposed to be the one to shut up.

You know, two ears, one mouth. Listen, listen. And then before you go to offer something up, think about three things. Okay. Is it true what you're about to say? Reflect first. Secondly, is it necessary that you actually share that? And. And third, be kind if you do.

Very good. Very good. Do you have a personal productivity habit that others might benefit from?

That's a constant struggle. Honestly, for me, I have not always been the best at establishing and maintaining my own standardized work. And so those rituals in the morning are particularly important for me. For example, I want to get up and get a little bit of blood flowing. And by far the best days that I have are those that start with a certain amount of exercise, whether I'm going to a gym or whether I'm taking a brisk walk outside. I just have the quality of my thoughts and the level of engagement and how inspired I feel is really closely connected to getting some exercise before I plunge into the day. And then the second thing that I do is whether it's before I go to the office or whether it's. Once I get in the office, before I open email, before I look at anything coming in, I go back and look at some of my notes from the previous day. I look maybe because I'm kind of outlook calendar driven. What was on my calendar the previous day that helps remind me, together with my notes, of what was most important yesterday. And one of those few things are probably needed to be done that weren't done so that I can tie off on those or at least restart those before the onrush of all kinds of new demands and tantalizing distractions start pouring in.

So, Zane, I want you to think back all the way back to 2015, and I want you to think about the year, the whole year. Was there anything during that year that surprised you as it relates to practicing or implementing Lean?

There are always, believe it or not, as old as I've become, there's still things that surprise me every day. And yeah, I guess it's going to sound probably strange when I say it, but it was another reflection and learning for me is how important people are to me, feeling successful personally. And by that, in this particular instance, what I mean is having the privilege to work with a group of people that you identify as a team. Now, whether they report to you, whether you report to them, or whether these are just relationships that are trust and influence based. But some of us find ourselves in organizations or a place in an organization where you've had a lot of experience and you've done a lot of good work and that has moved you up in terms of where you are on the org chart. And sometimes that moves you into a place where you are maybe spending a lot more time alone having strategic thoughts or producing materials in PowerPoint or some other form to share with other higher level groups of people. That maybe isn't all that you thought it would be before you got there. And for me, I know personally if I'm not really engaged with all kinds of people at least a little bit every day, I'm not feeling as connected to what's vital and a sense of satisfaction with, you know, improving on a daily basis. So that, that's been a surprise for me. And I'm reflecting on that, you know, at the start of the new year and you know, how I can, how I can set things up for more of that satisfaction in the coming year in a more meaningful way for me and the people around me?

Yeah, yeah. Do you have a routine or ritual that you follow when things aren't going well and you need to recharge and refocus?

Yeah, I have a couple of those. And it really depends on whether I'm feeling overwhelmed with just the flow of information and the pace of the demands being made on me, or whether maybe I'm feeling like I'm not being effective or perhaps I haven't lived up to my own expectations in terms of engaging other people or leading some particular effort or just being a good, a team member and participant. So one of them is really about breathing. Just like, okay, when in doubt, when feeling overwhelmed or disappointed or angry or any of those other emotions we all have, stop, take a few deep breaths and clear, let your mind clear. I know one of your partners, Kevin he has a number of mindfulness types of practices. He sometimes brings up in what he writes that I appreciate and resonate with me. So that's something that I do physically. The other, just from a mindset perspective. I'm constantly reminding myself too that frankly, pardon my expression, I don't know what shit happened to this person or this group during the day or before we got together. And so the impulse to blame and to project what I may be feeling onto those people. Watch out.

Yeah, no, exactly.

So am I also, am I top 80%? Am I lower 20% in terms of my perceptions, in terms of how I'm feeling physically, what's happened so far during the day, I need to be assessing. That's something that I'll do. Where am I? Am I having a fantastic day? And therefore that's affecting my perceptions in a positive way? Perhaps I'm even over optimistic, enthusiastic, or have things kind of been a little bit dark, a little bit slow, murky, and therefore there's a dark cast from my perspective on things that really isn't there at all. It's really just about where I'm at. So monitoring my own physical and mental outlook so that I can make appropriate adjustments. Those are some of the practices that, that I use.

Fantastic. All right, last question. I have. Obviously you've been practicing lean for quite some time and tons of experience and knowledge, but is there a skill or knowledge area that you feel that you need to improve in order to become a more successful lean thinker?

Well, there's a whole bunch of them. You know where to start There, I think not. If you know, for me, not overcomplicating things. And this gets back to everyone needing a child to teach because this is how adults learn. And great thinkers and teachers before have said this in lots of different ways. If you can't explain it in a few words or if you're third grader, fourth grader, understand what you're trying to share with them, chances are you don't understand it well enough yourself, or that you're unnecessarily complicating it. I slip into the use of jargon, whether it's kind of some of the Japanese words that I grew up with in learning continuous improvement, or whether it's just some of the stuff that we end up reading in books. It's so easy to get academic, get technical. I miss the whole point, which is sharing and improving in simple but substantial ways together every day. So keep it simple, stupid. And I'm talking to myself in that case.

Exactly Fantastic. Well, Zane, I really appreciate you taking time. I feel like this episode episode has been fantastic and I'm so glad it's starting the New Year of 2016 with this episode because I think it's a message many people need to hear. So let's wrap things up, Zane, with you sharing some final words of wisdom and then why don't you tell people how they can connect with you over social media or any other format.

Well, it's great to be here with you, Ronto. I love talking with you. This is a fantastic way for me to kind of reset at the beginning of a new year. It's going to be a very important year for me and I think for most people it always is right the new year. I love to connect with people. It doesn't matter what you do, what you're involved in. If you're trying to improve and you have things to share, I'm always trying to learn as well. LinkedIn is probably the best way. It's just Zane Ferry. You can find me very easily out there.

It's F E R R Y. Correct.

F E R R Y like the boat. Let's connect and share best practices and, you know, kind of build, build a community. There are lots of good communities out there, but every new one to one connection that I make, you know, really makes my life more interesting.

Yeah.

Gives me more opportunities to learn and to grow. So I look forward to connecting with anyone out there who's interested in asking questions and looking for better ways to do things.

Fantastic. All right, Zane, well, thanks again. I really appreciate you taking time and hopefully we can meet up face to face this year sometime and enjoy a visit that way.

I hope so. Ron, thanks very much. I've enjoyed this.

All right, you take care.

You too. Bye.

Bye.

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