GA 094 | How to Embrace Lean with Bob Rush

You're listening to episode 94 with Bob Rush.

Welcome to the Gemba Academy podcast, the show that's focused on helping individuals and companies achieve breakthrough results using the same continuous improvement principles leveraged by companies such as Toyota Del Monte and the U.S. department of Defense. And now, here's your host, Ron Pereira.

Hey there. This is Ron Pereira with Gemba Academy and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the Gemba Academy podcast. As always, thank you so much for taking time out of your day and your week to listen to the show and for watching our Lean and Six Sigma training videos over at Gembaacademy.com we definitely appreciate each and every one of you. Now today, I'm excited to welcome Bob Rush to the show. Now, Bob is a Lean Manufacturing Group leader at Tesla Motors. Now if you are on LinkedIn and you follow any of the kind of lean related LinkedIn groups, you've more than likely run across Bob because he is very, very active. In fact, it was because of LinkedIn that I reached out to Bob. He had been very active on Gemba Academy's LinkedIn group and I just hit him up and said, hey, would you be interested in doing a podcast? And he was so really excited to have him onto the show. So really our focus today is his journey, his lean journey. So Bob shares a lot of stories from his past, kind of how he got started. He tells a really fascinating story of his first Kaizen event that he attended was at Boeing and there were some high level consultants there running, running the event. And the morning of the event Bob explains that he fell asleep. So I don't want to tell you what happens next. You got to listen to the whole episode to hear that. But it's stories like that that Bob shares. He's got a really fun personality, super engaging, and I'm really excited for you to hear it. So show notes for everything Bob and I talk about can be found over@gembapodcast.com and just look for episode 94, that's nine, four. So again, that's Gembapod. And look for episode 94. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. All right, Bob, well, thank you so much for taking time to visit with us. Where are you calling in from?

I'm in San Jose, California right now.

All right, beautiful California. Thanks for taking time. And it's super early your time right now. So I really appreciate you carving out some time for us today. So why don't you, let's just start by telling us a Little bit about your background and maybe how you first got introduced to continuous improvement.

Okay. I started in manufacturing by accident. I was actually working construction, got laid off for the winter and got bored. So I went to work for a technology company and I fell in love with manufacturing. And as you go along, you discover all the problems that go with manufacturing. So if you love manufacturing, you gotta continuous improvement because it only gets better. And we've been through, you know, all kinds of improvement ways and schemes. So I finally stumbled onto world class manufacturing with Hewlett Packard way back when with Richard Schoenberger, and discovered later that it was just a piece of what we now call lean and it only addressed certain issues. But as I traveled, I just started applying those tools in all kinds of different industries. And it works.

Yes, it does.

And it's fun.

Exactly. Well, we're going to get a lot more into your Lean journey, but as you know, we like to start all of our shows with our guests kind of sharing a quotation or two that possibly inspires them. So do you have one?

I sure do. I use Ono quite a bit. My email tagline is usually an Ono quote, but the one I'm using lately is people who can't understand numbers are useless. The Gemba, where numbers aren't visible, it's also bad. However, people who only look at the numbers are the worst of all.

What does that mean to you?

It means we. We like to get results, but sometimes just looking at the results or for the results miss the point. It's all one package. We got to do measure, do measure. So I love it. I'm always trying to get people out on the floor.

Yeah, go to Gemba. Right.

Y.

All right. So what are you up to these days, career wise?

I'm a Lean Manufacturing group leader for Tesla Motors in Fremont.

Nice, nice. And. Well, that's got to be pretty fascinating daily, huh?

It is, it is. Yeah. And it's got a bit of history there. It was a GM plant, then it was a Nummi plant, GM Toyota combination. So the plant itself has some lean history.

How big is that facility?

It's over 500,000 square feet. Wow. Yeah, it's huge.

That's big. You drive around a little. Carts or.

Yeah, yeah, the carts throughout the plant. They do tours through the plant on. On electric carts. Everything's electric inside the building.

Yeah, obviously.

So, yeah, yeah, I. I do walking, so.

Yeah, there you go. It's healthier.

Yeah.

All right, so I guess, kind of, let's talk about your journey a little bit. How Were you I guess first introduced and trained and the ways of Lean.

Okay, well, first introduced I went through world class manufacturing. Schoenberger, he was directly tied to who I was working for at the time. So we were going through it and I started doing some consulting work and one of the clients I had was a supplier to Boeing and Boeing was doing these things called Kaizen events and I didn't know what they were and my client who valued their contract greatly, wanted to figure out how to do it and Boeing was gracious enough to offer them a slot and my client sent me. They figured I was the most qualified even though I wasn't really part of their organization.

When was that?

This was in 91 or 92.

Oh wow. Okay, so quite a while ago.

Yeah, long time ago. Shingajutsu was holding it. So I studied everything I could about Kaizen, which at that time wasn't all that much. I crammed the night before I flew there and I stayed up almost all night studying, went to the kickoff, met the sensei and his interpreter and promptly fell asleep. I was about 15 minutes into it and fell asleep and the sensei stun. He had me woken up, but not in a rude manner and just. And his only comment was I hope you give discounts for the sleeping time. Wow.

So. So why did you sleep? Just because you were exhausted from.

I was exhausted. I was so excited. I was and I was, I'll tell you the truth, I was a bit scared. I didn't know what this was going to be like. This wasn't like, you know, five days where you're going to change these big things. That was pretty, pretty unusual in my world at that time. You know, we had the big projects going on and they took weeks and months and years. But after about 15 minutes of talking and figuring out who did what role on the team, he took us out there and he pretty much turned us loose, gave us some advice. Which was the first lesson I took away, which was senseis don't do. They teach and everything they do has a lesson in it and you have to learn to learn. Kind of like the book Learning to see. It's a totally different skill set than what you're used to. And now I do it. It's just part of my life now. But when I first went through it, it was nerve wracking, that's for sure.

So tell them more about whatever you can. Obviously don't share anything confidential. But as far as that first event, what was the experience like? First day, second day, third day. Tell Us a little bit about that.

The first day was there was one person on the team that had been through a Kaizen before and the rest of us were newbies. So the first portion of it was really kind of the what do I do? And most of us weren't from their production. I wasn't even from their company. So it was kind of spent figuring out what to do. And the sensei just gently guided us to look at what the problems are. You don't have to be an expert to. And at the end of the week, I think the biggest thing I took away was fresh eyes are always good. You get so involved in it, you don't understand how bad it is until somebody comes along and goes, jeez, why do you do that? And that's what happened the whole week. It was a complete revelation to us. We changed multiple methods. I'm still dialed into a couple of guys that I was on the Kaizen with. One has left Boeing and is a lean champion at another company that I deal with on a regular basis now. And in fact, he was the inspiration for me going into lean full time. I've always been a manager and this is my first full time lean.

All right, so let's go back now. So it's the end of that Kaizen event and it's over and you're kind of back to normal, if you will, next week. Was it safe to say that you were. You were changed?

I went away completely changed? Yeah, I went away completely changed. I was a believer in continuous improvement and I went away a complete believer in Kaizen. And I knew that it could change organizations. It wasn't just a manufacturing tool. You could change anything with that. And in those days, that was unusual thinking. But I went away. Yeah. Was I changed? Yes. I started doing Kaizen right away. It took me almost a full year of practicing to realize that Kaizen is not an event. It's your thinking, it's how you live. I'm always looking for improvements. I'm always in the midst of improvement. I'm always teaching. I'm always interacting with people who see my problems differently and I see theirs differently. So once I figured that out, that it wasn't formal, that I didn't have to do an A3, that Kaizen events were structured for five days only that they could be done in a matter of minutes or days, or they could continue on. One of my favorite things now is after a Kaizen is a 30 and 90 day plan. These are what I'm going to do in the next 30, 90 days and then having them come back and do a mini Kaizen burst on top of what they've done over those 30, 90 days. So, yeah. Was I changed? Yeah, I was. I became a fanatic, I think.

Yeah, that's great. I guess that's a good thing to be fanatical about, right?

Yeah, yeah, well, in some ways, yeah.

So. So obviously Lean is impacted your career, I think that's safe to say. Right. You want to expand on that a little bit, greatly.

Yeah, well, it changed my. My whole way of doing things. When I started, I was very much traditional management. Although I was trained at Hewlett Packard in the management by Wander, it was still pretty structured. Whereas in Lean, my job completely changed. One of the core beliefs is respect for people. And as I've discovered, that means a lot more than just saying good morning and meaning means that I am committed to making those people better every day. So my role as a manager completely changed and my beliefs as a manager completely changed. I considered myself a Kaizen event. Over my whole career, I was always looking for ways to get better and I just, I discovered that people like working with managers, they don't like working for managers. So I got deeper into it and it changed me completely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's become a condition of employment for me now.

What do you mean by that?

I don't get involved with companies that don't want to at least attempt Lean. You know, some companies will tell you that, you know, it's not part of our culture. We don't mind taking a tool or two there and doing that, but I don't think it's something you can do part time. I think, you know, the risk of failure is so great anyways. I think if you just go into it part time, you are going to fail, so why bother?

Yeah, you know, it still fascinates me. I mean, obviously I'm a little biased because, you know, Gamba Academy, who we, our clients are, whatnot. But it fascinates me when someone says, no, I don't want to do that Lean stuff or that continuous improvement. It's like, really, you don't want to get better? Forget what you call it, you know, forget the labels, like you don't want to improve your business. It fascinates me.

Yeah, I've run into resistance to it because of the management requirement that, you know, they have to be fully committed to it. And the higher up people go, the more they see themselves as too busy to do things. And I think the enlightened organizations, not just Manufacturing companies but organizations, the leaders realize that they don't have time to not do it. I have to do this. I don't understand how I can survive without it.

Yeah, yeah. So again, without sharing any confidential information, I'm curious, can you share any questions, one or two Lean success stories?

Yeah, I sure can. My favorite one is I work for a company named JDS Uniface in the early 2000s, telecom company. But I ran, I didn't run. I was director of ops at a small division making commercial lasers. And it was actually the Uniface portion of JDSU which was what the company was founded on, made commercial lasers. Small group within this multi billion dollar hired a new general manager who came in and wanted to change things. Now fortunately for me, he had been part of world class manufacturing prior to this and had read up on Lean, was really looking for something like that. I had worked with some of the people there and they recommended me to him originally as a consultant. And after our first talk together I think it was mutually decided that we wanted to work together. So he had a vision. I knew how to operate to that vision. I had a vision of how operations should be. And, and the people within the organization saw that vision was consistent. So we took this company. It was trailing edge, 20 plus years old technology with all the traditional manufacturing problems of long lead times, poor on time delivery, huge inventories, broken processes. And we started working on it and within a month of being there we started seeing some changes and both of us knew that it would happen. We didn't think it would happen that quick, but it started because these people were getting attention that, you know, the top ops guy and the guy in charge of this group were spending time every day in Gemba that they were truly asking questions that mattered and when they gave us answers that we actually did something about it. What we discovered was we had some natural leaders within our group. So at one point in time I had 13 direct reports and that's way too many. And through the natural Lean process, my leaders rose to the top. And I ended up with four out of the 13. And I didn't fire any of the 13. I reorged them into different functions, made them individual contributors or kept them at a lower level, but had a leader above them. So and we were able to, you know, we, we did about a 35% sales increase, revenue increase, more than increased profitability. By that we reduced inventory. And in the midst of this we went out and acquired two different companies that we consolidated into our operations. And it worked. It just worked. So, and I remember the guy that I worked for, we made something called argon gas lasers, which is really trailing edge. And we were talking about whether to be the last man stand. And his answer was, well, by the actions that we've done and will continue to do, we have decided to be the last man standing that nobody else could compete with us. And that's exactly what happened.

So you mentioned that you reduce inventory and so forth. How did you guys handle the accounting? Was it cost accounting or were you more of a lien accounting organization?

See, at the time I didn't know anything about lean accounting, so we did the traditional standard accounting, standard cost accounting, which leaves a lot to be desired in Lean. You know, it works, but it takes so long to be able to show them that we started working on what I would call the very basic lean accounting that's going on now. So we've trying to figure out ways to show impact quicker than what we did before.

Yeah, because, I mean, in traditional cost accounting, reducing inventory technically can almost be seen as a bad thing, you know.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And you know, you can always play with standard cost accounting. You can always play the game, right? Yep. And it's funny to me because after I'd been in lean for so long, standard cost accounting doesn't make a sense to me because you're always looking for a variant. You know, very seldom is it standard. It's not the same price every time, it's not the same. There's always some kind of variance that you're trying to track. And really, shouldn't I be spending my time producing my product and not worrying about the variances within it? I should be going fixing process variants and not cost variances. Exactly, yeah. So that's what happened there. We had to find new ways of doing it and we became a model within the company. So people were enthused about what we were doing and in particular, given that it went through the telecom bust and they, our sister divisions were struggling to do things at all anyway, it was a good time to go through some changes.

How did you guys share your success throughout the company?

Well, the company at that time was divided into three operating groups and the operating groups had what they called councils, supply chain councils, operations council, there was engineering councils, things like that. I took part in two of them. I took part in the ops and in the supply chain one. And in the ops one I found in a little bitty group down in Melbourne, Florida, I found a kindred spirit in Lean. He and I just happened to be discussing Some of the things we were doing. He had a general manager that wasn't nearly as open to change his mind. But we were talking about what we were doing and what it looks like and what it feels like. And then all of a sudden, the other guys are out asking questions going, really? You fixed that? So that's how we started spreading it. And then the guy I worked for and actually worked with at his level, the word started spreading. Wait a minute. You know, this old, old division is now extremely profitable. They were always profitable, but they're extremely profitable. They're making changes and, you know, acquired companies and didn't add people when they brought the manufacturing in house. So we kept the same headcount and added new product lines.

No, I love it. Well, what's beautiful about that is. And something that I see people struggle with is you are getting real results, like you are impacting the company. Sometimes I hear stories of people saying, oh, yeah, I can't get people bought in. I'm like, so tell me about some of your successes. And it's like, well, i5s this area over here, you know, it's like, well, yeah, that's nice, but you gotta make some impact here, folks. And then you can get people excited.

Yes. Yeah. You know, the argument in LinkedIn and Quora is about. Is lean a about cost reductions. And my position is it is not about cost reduction. It's about enhancing value to your customers. You know, either I'm enhancing value or I'm eliminating waste or something. But, boy, can you measure the effect of that. Yeah, it's not the point, but it is. You know, that's. How do you keep score? It's like a game, right?

Yeah.

And it's addictive. The more results you get, the more other people want to take part. Yes. So Kaizen is like that. You see, one group attempt a Kaizen event and they will fail, but they'll find nuggets within that failure. And then other people build on those nuggets and they'll do it. And I've seen it multiple times now. It becomes a wave. And you measure the results. This is what I got for it. These are the tangible results. And I always emphasize that part of the scorekeeping is to make sure that people know you're doing it for them. You're not out to eliminate headcount. I'm out to enhance the value you guys deliver so we can do more for our customers so they'll pay us more money. That's what the whole thing's about. Love it.

Love It. So, over your career, Bob, what do you think you've struggled with the most as it relates to Lean?

Personally or professionally?

I don't know. Whatever. Either one.

I'll give one of each. So, personally, I am a huge fan of 5s, but typically, if you look at my desk, it's not 5s. Okay? It's really not. And then I'll go through a period of guilt and shame where I'll make it look good, but I tend to just pile things up on my desk.

Why do you think that is?

I tend to think a lot. I really like thinking and I haven't made it a habit. I've always told people, 5S is part of your standard work. And I haven't made my desk part of my standard work work. I haven't ingrained it into my thinking. And I will tell you the truth, at my present position, I am working on that.

Yeah, yeah.

I work in an open bullpen, so I want it. I don't want some VP wandering by going, who's the pig? Really? He's part of our lean guy. Our lean leader.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

And professionally. Oh boy. There's a couple ways of putting this. One is, I struggle. I get impatient sometimes because I know where we need to go. I really know it. So let's just get there. And I forget that lean is a journey and that all of us are on different points of that journey and you got to allow people to do it. So that was the one thing when I took this full time lean job was that I was going to work on that. I was. Not only was I going to be patient, but I was going to understand where every person that I enter with was on in their lean journey. And I was going to help them move along. I wasn't going to force them to. I wasn't going to, you know, snap my fingers and say, we're just going to do this. So. And I still struggle with it because I think, you know, you go into a Kaizen event and I can do so much more, but I can't. I have to wait for the group to decide.

So. Well, and what you said earlier, I actually made a note of it. You said, senseis don't do they teach, Right?

Yes.

You know, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And I've been fortunate that the gentleman I met through Shingajutsu way back when is still my sensei. I still deal with him. So. And in fact, the reason I'm talking to you is because he has become adamant now. That I give back, you know, And I always thought I would do it one on one and I'll do it in my Kaizen events and I'll do it, things like that. And he said that through his interpreter, that you have this personality where you're just this easygoing guy and you laugh at everything. People like you and they like working with you. You should spread that. So now I want you to find different ways of doing it. So there you go.

I thank your sensei for that advice.

Because I thank him too. It's helped me out, I tell you. I think a lot more about lean than I did over the last four or five years. You know, I kind of thought, well, I've been there, done that. And then when you get in this situation and you're exposed to other people and other ways of thinking and the arguments that go on about it, you know, in my mind, the arguments are all settled and in the real world, they're not settled.

Yeah. So I'm curious, how do you go about or what advice do you have for getting young talent, if you will, interested in lean?

Okay. I just got asked a similar question on Quora about it, and I think you got to expose them to a success. So when I do Kaizen events, you know, I always want the team leader to pick his team. He's got to pick the people that can have an impact. But I always stash one or two people who have shown an aptitude for at least thinking differently than most people. So be it an intern or somebody from accounting. Geez, an associate in another area, something like that, I will stash them on the team and start teaching them that way. And at the end of the Kaizen, one of two things happen. They thank me for their time and they go out to their regular world, or they'll come to me and say, I want to learn More now through LinkedIn, I have been getting a lot of requests through people that are pursuing masters in engineering or industrial engineering with this type of question. So now I got another avenue to address. So I started posting on LinkedIn about my lean thoughts and things like that. And I've agreed to help people on their journey. It's part of the pay it forward. Lean is a pay it forward environment. Whether we agree with it or not, it is. So we should be helping everybody become lean. It's not a competitive weapon, it's a survival tool.

Yeah. So if you could go back to, what was it, 1991 when you first started with lean, and you could give yourself some advice, the Bob of today is speaking to Bob of early 1990s. And you had five minutes with yourself.

Yeah.

What would you say?

Okay, well the old Bob, which is what I am now, would sit that Bob down and would say slow down and listen closer. Listen to, I mean right now, looking back, I should have listened to my sensei a lot more sooner. Sometimes I think he probably felt like I'm going to have to get a two by four and get this guy to think because I know he's capable of it. I just can't get him to do it. But in the typical sensei matter, he was calm and rational about it. And I think I would listened to a lot of other people about it. Not just people that I thought knew more than me or knew weren't a subject matter expert in this area, but even the people that I didn't think knew anything. I would listen to them a lot closer. I think listening is an underrated skill and I think it's critical to lean success. We really have to listen and no matter where the words come from, you have to listen to them. So I would go back and say, stop, take a deep breath, enjoy the ride more. Listen to these people, process what they're saying and apply it.

What do you think the young Bob would have said? You're crazy, get out of here.

Yeah, I don't have time for that. I'm fixing this, I'm fixing that. Do you know the list of problems I have?

You're like, I do because I was you.

Yeah. And I know. So. Yeah. One of the funny things to me in my Lean Journey supply chain is always a puzzle to me. It's always something that everybody should apply Lean to. You should be working with your suppliers directly, trying to help them because geez, you're the customer and we don't do it much. But the younger Bob didn't have time for that. I didn't have time to listen to suppliers and now I listen to them and try to figure out how I can help their problems. And the young people, Bob definitely wouldn't listen to a supplier coming in with a solution to the problem I'm not working on today. Whereas the Bob now I listen to everybody. I don't care what you're selling, I'm going to listen because you may have a solution that I need and maybe I don't even know I need it now, but I'm going to listen.

Yeah, that's fantastic. So Bob, what advice do you have for the person just starting out with their Lean Journey?

Well, first of all, enjoy the journey, because that's what it's all about. All of this is supposed to be fun. It really is. We're not supposed to get hammered about it. We're not supposed to stay up all night long worrying. We're supposed to have some fun doing it. So get in there. Find yourself a sensei mentor, somebody that you can model yourself after in the Lean world. Stay connected to the entire Lean World. Read everything you can about it. You know, be active on LinkedIn and Quora, on all these forums for Lean. Listen to other people's problems and solutions. Take every chance to learn. Just take every chance to learn. Always be asking questions always. So love it.

Very good advice. Now, what about. Here's a twist to that same question. What advice do you have for the experienced Lean thinker who's been at this for some time?

Well, take a deep breath, step back, and look at it differently. I have something I use in management, and I call it a campfire viewpoint. When you go camping, you sit by the fire and then the wind shifts and the smoke gets in your eyes.

Yes.

What do you do? You get up and you move and guess what happens? The fire looks differently from there. And again, if you keep moving and looking at it from different angles, the problem looks differently. The size of it looks different, the solutions look different. Who should be involved is different. I think if you take that time, you'll find it helps.

Wow, I love that analogy. I'm going camping with my son this weekend, so I can't wait to think about Lean as that campfire shifts. Because it always does.

Yes, it does. Very good.

Very good. All right, Bob, well, let's go ahead and transition into the reflection section. And you've kind of touched on this already, but I want to go ahead and just ask it again in case you have anything else to share. But as you know, respect for people is a big part of what we Lean thinkers are all about. So what does respect for people mean to you?

Okay, this is my favorite part, because it's. It's what Lean is all about. And it's not a tool. It's part of your thinking. It's like Kaizen, it's part of your thinking. So respect for people. The biggest thing that I tell people is that it implies that you expect more from the people than they expected themselves, that, you know they can do more and that you're going to help them get more. Not that you're going to, you know, whoop them to get them to do more, but you're Going to teach them, you're going to guide them, you're going to be there. Part of. So respect for people means you value their input. You know, and I know all the smart aleck comments about that, but I really listen to people and figure out how I can help them. So the true leaders that I admire the most always ask you, what can I do to help? And they mean, what can I do to help? It's not a catchphrase. They're actually asking, what is it that bothers you? And the guy that I'm closest to now carries a standard work in his back pocket. And anybody that stops him, he writes it down. And I can guarantee you within 24 hours there's action taken on that. That shows respect for those people. And it doesn't matter if you're a VP or you're an associate on the line. I mean, I watched him with the janitor one time. Do it. And things happen for the janitor too. That says to me that this guy truly values those people. So respect for people. Yeah. I'm going to do everything I can to help them. It means we're invested in them, that we're invested in their careers. We're here to make them better. And if they want to transition out of, for example, my group in operations, then my job is to help get them trained into whatever they want to do. I have to do what's best for the company. And that means what's best for those people.

Yeah. Bob, what's the best advice you've ever received?

Listen closer, Bob. Put that one in for my sensei in case his interpreter listens here.

Okay.

The best advice I ever got. Oh, boy. I've been pretty fortunate. I've worked for some really brilliant people along the way. I mean, I was at HP when Hewlett and Packard were involved. But the guy that I admire most as a leader is a guy that was my boss at JDS Uniface. And I worked for him at two other companies. He kept emphasizing to me that my job was about the people's results. What did they get, not what I got. And that was a change in thinking for me. So I started worrying more about what they got and it just started rolling up. So my impact was bigger. Instead of chasing a certain target, I chased 50 different targets with 50 people. And it rolled up to bigger numbers than what I had thought. So thinking about that that way was the best career advice I ever got. Instead of thinking about one big problem, break it down into smaller ones.

Yes, Bob, do you have a Personal productivity habit others might benefit from.

Boy, that's tough to say. I'm on my feet all day long now. I go to Gemba, three to five a day. I walk, you know, about five miles a day now.

Wow.

So I guess that is my productivity tool. I think better when I'm on my feet, away from interruptions, things like that. So for me, put myself in that quiet time to think is what makes it more productive for me. And I know now the people, when I wander by, it doesn't matter what group I'm wandering by, they know I'm working on lean, so they'll ask me questions of what to expect or I got this problem or something like that. So I think that makes me more. More effective.

Yeah, well, you know, I think I'm always fascinated with the brain. And obviously, when you're walking that much, that's exercise. And endorphins are being released in your body and you feel better, you know, and you're going around talking to people versus just sitting on some chair all day long, you know, you grow stale. Right. And your brain stops working, I think.

Yes. Yeah. I worked for a guy. I was an industrial engineer for a while, and I worked for a guy. One of his measurements, he called it seat time. Now, those of us that work for him didn't know how he measured it, but he would come by your desk and leave a piece of paper on your chair, and he would judge how much work you were really doing by the number of times that you would answer that question on that paper. Wow.

That's a great question.

Tip. Yeah. Yeah. So we would. We would not answer the question on the paper eventually, so you would have to find us, but the hint was there, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now, is there anything that surprised you this past year as you've been implementing lean?

Oh, yes. There's always surprises. So I guess the biggest surprise for me was how quickly Kaizen can take hold in an environment that's really receptive to it. Normally, you walk into environments that have had no exposure to it. And I walked into an environment that had people that had not only been exposed to it, had lived it as a daily thing in their previous life. Some of the people I work with now work for nummi, so they were taught the Toyota way, and Kaizen is integral to it. So the surprise to me is how quickly Kaizen can take hold if you have a receptive audience.

Love it. Let's say that maybe you're having a bad day or something's not going well, do you have a routine or ritual that you follow to kind of get back on track?

Well, first thing I do is I put my headphones on and play, you know, some just old fashioned classic rock to get into a rhythm. Because, you know, like everything, it's about rhythm. And usually you've been thrown off your rhythm at that point. Usually that gets me back in it. And then I always take a walk, you know, whether it's five or ten minute kind of thing, just like a cool down period. And what I find is during the walks again, I start thinking. And usually whatever knocked me for a loop, I can at least start forming, formulating a plan to address it.

What's your favorite classic rock band?

Oh, geez, I don't have one favorite. I go through. Through.

Are you like an Eagles guy or like.

I like the Eagles. I like Dire Straits. Oh yeah, okay, I can go through them. Jay Giles band. Oh, gosh, that's how old I am. Yeah. I recently wrote about when I was getting started, we didn't even have mrp. We used cardex cards. And I can't tell you how many notes I get going, what are card X cards? Yeah.

All right, so last question I have for you, Bob. Is there a knowledge or skill area that you feel you need to improve in order to become a better lean thinker?

Oh, lean, yeah, we're always expanding on it. And I guess I'd say the people portion of lean, there's always ways of approaching people, of doing things differently with them, to relate to them. I had become kind of set in my ways and I've been exposed to a significantly younger audience now. And I'm much better educated too. I'm dealing with a lot of ies with masters and things like that. So it's a different way of thinking. So yeah, calibration with people and recognizing all the different levels. So yeah, very good, very good.

All right, final question. So do you have any. Not really question, but let's just wrap it up with you sharing some, maybe some final words of wisdom and then tell people how they can connect with you. Obviously on LinkedIn.

Yeah, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on Quora and Twitter. It's Rush consulting. Okay, so final words of wisdom. Okay, well, all of my posts and all of my meetings, whether one on one or in group, I always close out with have some fun. Because all of this that we're doing really should be fun. If you are not having fun, there's something wrong with what you're doing. Maybe you know, maybe your boss is doing something wrong. Maybe, maybe. Whatever. But go have some fun. So. And then I have to explain to people that, you know, getting results is part of the fun. We should be in there changing things. This isn't. You know, the fun part is not getting together and goofing around with your buddies. The fun part is getting results, changing things, having an impact on our people's lives, work lives, at least. So that's my advice. Go have some fun.

Yeah. Love it. Now, are you a conference guy? Do you attend conferences at all?

Not many. Although, I mean, again, it's part of this conversion to public Lean as opposed to practicing in private. I probably will be attending some. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I would encourage you to go to the AME Conference. It's in Dallas. Dallas. And it's. It's our favorite one. And we're gonna. Gemba Academy is gonna have. We always do a big reception kind of one of the evenings. It's all free, so hopefully you can attend. That's October 24th, so put it on your calendar and be in Dallas for ame.

Okay, I will put it on the calendar then.

All right, Bob. Well, hey, thanks so much for taking time. I've really enjoyed. This is a fantastic way to start. Start my morning. I know, for. For me at least, so. Good way.

For me too. Thanks.

Yeah.

Having me.

Yeah, likewise. So let's. Let's hopefully meet up someday in Dallas, if not sooner.

Okay, Sounds great. Thanks, Ron.

All right, take care.

Okay, bye.

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