GA 104 | How to Apply Lean to Your State with Alison Fisher

You're listening to episode 104 with Alison Fisher. Welcome to the Gemba Academy Podcast, the show that's focused on helping individuals and companies achieve breakthrough results using the same continuous improvement principles leveraged by companies such as Toyota Del Monte and the U.S. department of Defense. And now, here's your host, Ron Pereira. Hey there. This is Ron Pereira with Gemba Academy, and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the Gemba Academy podcast. As always, thank you so much for taking time out of your day and your week to listen to the show and for watching our Lean and Six Sigma training videos over at Gembacademy.com we definitely appreciate each and every one of you. Now then, today I'm excited to welcome Alison Fisher to the show. Allison is a program director of Lean ct, which is a program within the Connecticut Office of Finance at the Office of Policy and Management. Now, we'll get into much more detail during the show, but Alison's job is to lead the lean thinking charge for the entire state of Connecticut, which obviously is no small task. And as it turns out, we're headed to Connecticut later this week to spend a few days with Allison and several other Connecticut agencies who have been practicing Lean for several years. Now, we're going to capture all of that on video. So I guess you can think of this audio only podcast as a teaser to a far more in depth look into all the great work the state of Connecticut has done as it relates to continuous improvement. Now, show notes for this episode can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 104. Again gembapodcast.com and look for episode 104. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to this show. All right, Allison, thanks so much for coming onto the show. Where are you calling in from today?

Good morning. I'm calling in from the beautifully rainy city of Hartford in Connecticut.

Nice. Well, the weather is very, very important me this week because as you know, we're jumping on an airplane tomorrow and we're coming out to see you. So hopefully it'll be, you know, I'm looking for about 80 degrees during the day, maybe 70 at night.

Is that something you might be headed in the wrong direction?

Yeah, that's San Diego, right? Yeah, that's right. All right, well, I can't wait. I've never been to, to Hartford, so super excited to come out and visit with you guys. But Allison, let's go ahead and get, get started with you telling us a little bit about your background and maybe how came to learn about continuous improvement?

Sure. I began my career in public service about 10 years ago. @ that time, I was working for the State of New York in a policy development role. In about 2007, early 2008, I moved to Springfield, Mass. Where I was brought in to serve as part of a core team of four people running their city Stat department. We were working for Mayor Sarno, who is still in office there. As mayor, we were charged with supporting city departments in using data to make decisions, so prioritizing their funding for what was of the most value to the citizens, the residents of the city. So I did that for just under four years. We built a really strong program. And while I was there, we had a consultant on contract who was hired to introduce lean thinking and principles and tools to the city staff. And that's where I first was exposed to this. And it really resonated with me because I found that it was giving me terminology for work that I was already doing. I just didn't know what to call it. And so it really validated everything that I had been trying to accomplish and gave me sort of a structure and a framework to help guide me. So I soaked it up immediately, started reading whatever I could, watching YouTube videos, demonstrations and trainings. And within a couple of months, I was serving as team leader for different Kaizen projects and helping, if the facilitator had to, you know, leave like a Kaizen facilitation for a few minutes to have a meeting on the phone or something, I would facilitate in his place. I just loved everything about it. So then after that, I took a job as a budget analyst in the state of Connecticut, working in the Office of Policy and Management, which is the governor's budget office. And I just kept plugging away, keep learning, keep growing, build my network of people who knew about Lean, or maybe not. Maybe just those in state service who were committed to change, passionate about making things better, seeing the value in every process. And maybe just like I had, they didn't know what to call it, what the terms were. So started developing those relationships and probably driving people crazy with all the emails I would forward them. You know, oh, Simon Sinek says this and Mark Graven says this, and Ellie, I put out this video. You should check it out. So in 2011, things started changing a little bit here. That was when Governor Malloy was his first year in office, and they really, the state really needed something to sort of a management framework. We really needed to put something in place. And so at that time, there was a special session in the fall of 2011, which focused on job growth. And in that session, there was a piece of legislation that said the Office of Policy and Management will basically provide lean training and expertise via contract to other state agencies to make sure that this is a framework that we can use to be more successful. And so I was working in the budget, the budget office at that time, and didn't really know what that would mean for the state. But I was really excited that this was even on the table. What ended up happening was there was a woman, April Capone is her name. She was previous mayor of a municipality within the state. She was appointed to take on the role within OPM to oversee the effort. She did that for about a year, and then she moved on to another professional opportunity. And at that time, by then, I had pretty much saturated everybody I know with all kinds of information and conversations about Lean and how amazing it is and more from the behavioral people side of it, morale and, you know, camaraderie and collaboration and team thinking and all these things. And so the Secretary of opm, Ben Barnes, asked me to fill the seat and manage the statewide effort in terms of implementing this statute. And I just could not have been more grateful and continue to be. Yeah, this is an amazing opportunity, and it's by far the best job I could have ever imagined. And so we really just went off from there, and it's been incredible. It's been a great two and a half years so far.

Well, there's not many people who can say I lead Lean for a state. That's true. That's pretty awesome. You know, it's like I led Lean for a couple departments, you know, but never for an entire. So that's pretty amazing.

It's pretty complicated. And I think Darrell Dameron, in one of your previous podcast interviews, had mentioned the complexity of it, that it's really a. It's a coordinating role, it's a managing role, it's a coaching role, a supportive role, and it really is unique. And these, you know, these organizations are so large, and each agency is like its own little company. So you're kind of overseeing depending on how many agencies you have. You know, in my case, like 30 companies and trying to get them to work together. And it's. Yeah, it's complicated.

Yeah, I bet, I bet.

But it's all positive and it's for the best of reasons, so I enjoy every second of it.

Love it. All right, well, Alison, as you know, we like to kind of begin our shows with our guests sharing a quotation that possibly inspires them. So do you have one?

I do, yes. I'm a big fan of your work. And so I was ready for that question.

Well, thank you.

So the quote. I actually have this quote hanging in my workspace to remind me every day, if you work in government, you'll see things that need doing. You can choose to stay out of trouble, or you can ask yourself, if not me, who? And that's a quote out of Confessions of a Civil Servant by Bob Stone, which is a book that really changed my perspective on being a public servant. I was 19 when I read the book, and it really shaped my views of government and what it means to be employed in this industry and how any person, regardless of where they sit within the organization, can make a change. And I've carried that with me since then, and I believe it today even more than ever, especially after learning everything I have about Lean Thinking. It fits so perfectly in with the ideals and the values of everyone having their expertise and coming to the table and finding solutions together, regardless of rank.

Fantastic.

Yeah, that's it. That's all about.

Awesome. All right, well, let's just kind of kick things off with you. Just give us an overview of Connecticut's approach to lean thinking.

Sure. So our approach is that of partnerships and sort of in kind support we. So I should start off by saying that the Lean CT program is staffed by one individual. That would be me. It's really incredible to get all of the support from the other agencies to make this ship move. It's very complex, as I was mentioning earlier. And so none of this would be possible without those partnerships. So really, what we've created is this governance structure for Lean ct, which is the program, but also the way in which we implement the statute that I was referring to earlier. And so we've got this steering committee made up of 14 state agencies, which is all areas of operation, regulation, correction, health, hospitals, education, human service, transportation. Everybody's together trying to figure out how to move this forward. And what I mean by that is we have created sort of our own strategic plan with a gap analysis and a communication strategy and the different tools that we had as a committee to promote lean thinking and give our colleagues the support that they need to be successful. And that just doesn't mean just tools and projects. It's really how can we build capacity, build capabilities within our colleagues, within the work that we all do to make sure that everyone can approach their work with a critical mind. So what does that mean for everybody? In every job, it's going to be different. But we just want to make this sort of support and coaching more of an accessible tool for them to use. So we do promote a lot of value stream mapping for the simple fact that it brings people to the table to have a conversation that would never normally talk about something.

Yeah.

And we find a lot of value just in that. So if we say, come in a room and put up some stickies on the wall, maybe that seems silly to people, but really it's forging those relationships. That's what we're focused on. So I guess our strategy is really that of trying to figure out how to work together all the time to solve problems together.

I'm glad you mentioned value stream mapping, because I've been busy watching videos that you've sent over, and one of them that really struck me was a VSM exercise with the hatchery guys. Yeah, that was amazing. Talk about that one a little bit.

Sure, sure. So that was a project in the Department of Energy and environmental Protection, which is, you know, nationally sort of a hotbed for lean activity. A lot of their processes lend themselves to so many of these tools because it a lot of times is manufacturing, especially the hatchery project, because they're making fish. They're making fish. Exactly, exactly. They're raising them. They're putting them in our rivers and ponds for people to fish, for sport. And it was incredible. So what happened there was they were. The folks who were working at the hatchery were finding that so many of their fish were dying and they weren't able to produce at the rate that they needed to. And so we were losing a ton of money and a ton of time trying to figure out how to get the fish into these different ponds where they could be raised appropriately and separated. And then, you know, one type of fish would be brought out to a stream by one truck. The truck would come back, pick up a different kind of fish, bring it back, back and forth, back and forth. And what they found was they could actually combine the fish in the truck and do one load at a time. But also the other thing that they found which was the most interesting about this project was that they found that there were birds who were walking. Now, you're gonna have to remind me what kind of bird that was. Cause I haven't watched that video in a while.

Okay.

Do you remember?

I don't remember, but I know what you. If I would have known it was gonna be a qu of it, like taking notes.

Yeah, me too. It was some kind of bird that only walks and doesn't Fly.

Okay, okay.

It was walking, walking, walking to the edge of the pond and picking up the fish and eating them. And that's where they were. That's why they were dying and disappearing. And so they realized that if they built a wall all around where the fish were being raised, that these birds would not fly over the wall to go eat the fish. So it was a really simple sort of problem solving solution, but it's made a huge difference. They saved thousands of dollars in supplies, and also the travel time was significantly reduced. So people in Connecticut love their sport fishing and we're happy to say everything's going well now.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's awesome. And what I really loved about those various videos that I've watched, I haven't watched all of them, but just seeing the, The. Well, I was going to call them employees, but I don't. The government employees who just. You could see the. The energy and the passion in their eyes. And even the ones who maybe said that they were a little skeptical in the beginning, like, what is all this stuff? You know, but they, they really do get it, you know, and that was pretty fun to watch.

They do. I think, you know, in our industry, so many of us are here because we want to make things better. That's the whole reason that, you know, most of us come to work every day. And I think being able to make things easier for yourself and also add more value to the person, you're trying to help people really understand that right away because it's. It just falls perfectly with why everybody's here in the first place.

Yeah. Yeah. All right, so I understand that you guys have a unique investing program. So talk to us about the process of when an agency requests funding in order to counter some problems. What happens when that occurs?

When an agency approaches our office, you also Office of Policy and Management for funding for an IT solution to address a problem. In their application document, we will ask them a question about process improvement. So basically, is the problem you're trying to solve? Well, please identify the problem you're trying to solve. And then the next question is, have you used process improvement techniques to remove waste from this process? And if the requesting agency says no, we will follow up with them and say, okay, please connect with Allison Fisher so that you can learn about how to do this, and she will support your agency in doing so. Because we cannot invest in this solution until you've removed waste from the process. Essentially, if the applying agency says yes, that they have applied some sort of process improvement technique, we then ask for Additional information on what occurred and what they found and what the process looks like. Now, the reason we do this is because we are trying to use sort of our office to promote the management strategy that we don't automate waste. So if you want to automate a process because you think you're solving a problem, if there is still waste built into that process, you're not going to be solving anything. You're just going to be making the problem faster.

Yes.

So this way, we've sort of built in a mechanism for at least starting that conversation.

Wow, that's pretty powerful. You know, obviously in a government, it's important, but just think about if everybody that works in a traditional company right now thought like that, you know, so, oh, I need this new fancy solution. Like we said, there's tons of waste. Take that waste out first. So it's. It's a. It's a fantastic way of thinking.

Thank you. Yeah, we're very proud of this. I mean, there are definitely mistakes made all over the place. Yeah. You know, not just in our industry, but everywhere. And, you know, we. We've only started doing this, requesting this information in the past year and a half, two years. So prior to that, you know, there wasn't a ton of conversation around this. And so, you know, there are times where we realize that something was implemented incorrectly and we're finding waste later because we didn't do it ahead of time, as you would expect.

Yeah.

But we just take those opportunities to reassess and say, okay, is there anything we can do about this now? How can we address the issue and then what do we do going forward? And that's actually been a great way to have that conversation with agencies who may have implemented a solution prior to this change, because then they're learning as they go, which is okay, if that's where you're at, that's where you're at.

Yeah. No, that's fantastic. And, you know, and I'm sure if someone. I'm not saying anybody does, but if they did want to kind of game it, they figured out your thing, you know, at least they're having to think about how to game it, you know, and you're planting seeds, Right? Exactly. And eventually it's just gonna kind of take over and become habit. Right. To think about taking waste out first.

Yes, exactly. We actually, there's a little bit of a joke here that, you know, everybody in the state sort of views our agency as the agency that holds the stick. Right. Like, we're always sort of forcing the state to do certain things a certain way because we hold the purse and that's, you know, that's sort of the way things work. But I don't see it that way. I see it as a sugar coated stick because I think that it's a sweet way of reminding people this is really the way that it should be done. But it's still a stick because we won't give them the money if they don't follow the procedure.

Well, yeah, but also. But it's one thing to have a stick. It's another thing to say, hey, listen, I'm gonna come and help you if you need it. Right.

That's where the sugar comes in.

Exactly. I mean, it'd be one thing if they said, did you do this? No. Get away, leave. You know, do it. No, but you're going to help them. So that's fantastic.

Thanks.

So the last question that I have for this section, Alison, is I know that you have a good, strong relationship with Lei, so I'd like to talk a little bit about that. But also I want to hear about if you're working with other states, maybe in that New England area.

Yeah, sure, we are, actually, with the help of Lei. So Darlene Dumont from Lei, who will be joining you in your Connecticut adventure this week. Yes, she's actually from Connecticut, but she'll be with us. She has been very helpful in connecting those individuals who are in my role in other states in my region. So folks from Vermont, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and I think. I think we've woven New York in any way, even though they're not technically New England. But it's close enough.

Yeah.

Into our conversations around. Oh, and Maine. State of Maine. Can't forget state of Maine. Sorry, Lita. We've been having conversations about how to work together to advance our own state's initiatives, but also regionally, how can we collaborate to make our region stronger? And so we don't know exactly how that's gonna play out, but we do know that a lot of our conversations to date have been around one particular issue that we all experience. And then we talk about different strategies in different states and how it's been successful or not for all of us. And so Darlene has been instrumental in pulling that group together and making sure that we stay connected. Because, you know, as we've talked about before, this is such a unique role and thing to try to do in government. And it really, you know, lean government really hasn't been around long enough to be properly studied and opined on. And I think all of us are trying to figure it out as we go. Like, okay, the principles are the same, but how do they apply in our environment, which is a little bit different, mostly due to the fact that, you know, everything we do is public. So, you know, that sort of, that bi directional communication, how do you make sure that that's a big part of your work? So I think partnering together has really given us, you know, just more information, more tools for our toolboxes or, you know, another person who understands your struggle. Yeah, yeah, it's been really great.

Now, what if someone's listening to this right now in there, in, I don't know, Idaho, and they're in the government or something, and you don't normally have interaction with those types of folks. Can people just reach out to you and get your advice and help or.

Absolutely, absolutely. Actually, I just had a phone call with the state of Pennsylvania last week. We're in that boat. They just hired sort of a director to lead the charge here out of the governor's office for this initiative. And he called and we had like, we talked for like two hours about, you know, how to roll this out. And, you know, he gave me some of their pain points. I gave them some suggestions back and forth. And it was a really valuable conversation. Just from one novice to another, you know, no judgment. You know, it's. The whole community is so open and wonderful. And so anybody who's wanting to figure this out in a government context can absolutely contact me anytime.

Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. All right, well, Alison, let's go ahead and try to transition into the reflection section. And so the first question, as you know, because you listen to the show, is talking about respect for people. And so I'm curious, what does that mean to you?

Well, what it means to me is allowing the subject matter experts to be the subject matter experts, to just trust that the person doing the job knows the job and giving it the credit it's due. I think one of the most successful applications of lean tools and lean principles within a government context is when an individual is retiring. And I think it's a great example of respect for people, because what you're essentially saying is you are invaluable to our organization and no one knows what you know. So please sit down with us, you know, tell us everything about this process that you manage. Let us ask you questions, let's be open in a non judgmental way and have a conversation about what we could do going forward. Mm. That's been immensely helpful for us. And I think it's really True to that. Tenant of lean.

Yes. What's the best advice you've ever received?

Oh, that's a good question. I think just to. Well, you know what it is. Don't boil the ocean.

Nice.

That's definitely.

That's easy to do. Are easy to try to do. Right?

Yeah. And it applies to every aspect of life, and I remind myself of that on a daily basis.

Yes, we all do. We all do. All right.

It's tempting.

Do you have a personal productivity habit others might benefit from?

I'm big into lists. I enjoy crossing things off, so I like to make them.

Now, do you add stuff to your list if it wasn't on there, just so you can cross it off?

Oh, yeah.

Me too.

Absolutely. Retroactive list making.

You should. Yes, it's a thing. Yes, it is a thing.

I do.

That's awesome. Do you have anything? I'm sure you do, but over the last year of practicing lean, has anything surprised you?

Yeah, for sure. I think one of the most surprising things has been how open everyone is to figuring this out. I was expecting much more reticence, nervousness, pushback, unless everybody's just, you know, being nice to my face, which is always a possibility. But I do think that maybe it's the approach that we're taking here, you know, of. This is sort of the strategy we're trying out. Do you want to be a part of it? Do you want to take on this challenge? We'd love to have you. Maybe that's part of why people have been so willing to try it. But it's been great. I mean, everybody is so supportive of one another, and it's. It's been one of the more successful morale boosting efforts that we have here in our state. We've had to cut back a lot on operating budgets. And so one of the ways that the agencies have done that over the years is by removing training, which, of course, intuitively makes little sense, but when you're deciding between training your staff in leadership skills versus providing service to individuals with disabilities. Okay, you know, so we provide mandated trainings, of course, but everything else, everything that's elective, has sort of been eliminated. And so this is one of the strongest professional development opportunities that the staff has. And most people I've encountered are just so interested and thrilled to do something that's, you know, bigger than themselves.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's been a wonderful surprise.

Well, I'm not surprised that people are kind to you and whatnot. I mean, because I don't want to make your head big. But I've talked to you several times as we're preparing for this trip, and I really love your energy, and you have, like, kindness in your voice, but you also have confidence, and I like that. And you're very humble. So I'm sure that's. That comes across with. With folks, and that's probably a big part of your success.

Oh, hey, thanks, Ron. I'm gonna float away with my big head now. See ya.

Yeah, no worries. All right. Well, on the flip side, I'm sure there are some days that aren't going as well as you'd like them to. And so I'm curious if you have maybe a routine or a ritual that you follow to kind of get refocused and recharged.

Yeah, Well, I guess on the professional front, I have two graphics sort of over my computer at my workstation. One of them is a piece of art that I purchased at the big exposition in Springfield, Mass. Which is the large New England State Fair.

Okay.

And it says it's word art, and it says be, think, do. And it's very simple. There's nothing flashy about it, but it just reminds me to stay focused, to, you know, to be in the moment, to sort of process what's happening and then take action. I also have a graphic of the golden concept, golden circle concept. And that is really helpful because Simon Sinek.

You mean Simon Sinek.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Simon Sinek. And it's helpful for me to just remind myself why I'm doing what I'm doing, why I'm having the conversation I'm having, why I need to take the next step forward.

Yeah.

Because once I can reconnect with that, I can then move on from whatever the issue is because I've regrounded and I can communicate better because I know why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Yes.

So that's been terrifically helpful. I also watch a lot of his videos on YouTube. His, like, TED talks and stuff to get pumped up.

Yeah. And if. And if anybody's not familiar with Simon Sinek or his work, go back and listen to Gemba Academy's episode 76. And we interviewed Simon, and he's fantastic thinker and just person in general. And I'm not sure if there's anyone that's influenced us lean thinkers more outside of the traditional lean space than Simon Sinek. I don't know who it is. If there is one, I don't either.

He's so brilliant.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then. And also, in addition to those things, I like. I'm big into cleansing breaths, which I learned from my yoga classes.

Nice. What's that all about?

It's, you know, count to three, inhale through your nose, count to three, exhale through your mouth.

Yeah.

And it kind of gets all the bad air out of your body.

I like it.

Yeah, it works.

I actually, I watched a video similar to that about how to fall asleep and there was some deal about I can't remember the mechanics of it. I'll have to look it up again. But yeah, it was like breathing, you know, and breathing out and count. Yeah. So pretty powerful. Breathing is important.

It's. Sometimes you forget.

Yeah, right. Get too busy, don't breathe.

It's true.

Yeah. Yeah. Love it. All right, last question. Do you have a knowledge or skill area that you feel you need to improve in order to become a better lean thinker?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think. I don't even think I've touched on the surface of the, what I can learn about lean. I think it's just so important to continue to be open to learning and inquisitive and making connections with other people who are, you know, way farther through their lean journey and can give advice and, you know, try and just absorb everything I can. I mean, I don't even. I wouldn't even say that. There isn't a skill I have that doesn't need additional work.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, comes back to humility, and you've got that. And so.

Thanks.

Keep learning. Because when you think you know it all, that's when you're about to fall. I think so.

Absolutely.

All right, so how can people connect with you, Alison?

So the Lean CT website has my contact information. So that's the. The.

So give a link. Yeah. What's the URL for that?

Yeah, the URL for that is www.ct.govbackslash lean ct.

Okay.

And my email, my direct email is Allison A L I S O N.Fisher F I S H E R@ct.gov.

That'S 1L. 1L, right.

1L, no C. And Fisher. Yep. Very simple.

Got it, Got it. All right, well, goodness. We jump on the airplane tomorrow around luncht and so I, I look forward to meeting with you and spending a fantastic week with you. I'm always excited to go out and visit with folks, but I'm especially excited for this one because it's. It's like nothing we've ever done.

So it's going to be so fun. I can't wait. But a little cold. Sorry.

Yeah, don't worry about that. I'll be fine. I'll bring it. I'm from. I grew up in Ohio. I know. I just. I've been in Texas a little too long to. My blood is thin, you know? So. We'll make it. Don't worry. All right. I'll just keep breathing. Right. Keep breathing.

Exactly.

All right. Fantastic. All right, well, we'll see you soon.

Absolutely. See you soon.

Okay, bye. Thanks for listening to the Gemba Academy podcast. Now it's time to take a free, no strings attached, fully functional test drive of Gemba Academy School of Lean and Six Sigma. Over at Gembaacademy.com gain immediate access to more than 500 Lean and Six Sigma training videos, free of charge@gembaacademy.com.