GA 125 | How to Introduce Lean with Dalton Prather

You're listening to episode 125 with Dalton Prather.

Welcome to the Gemba Academy Podcast, the show that's focused on helping individuals and companies achieve breakthrough results using the same continuous improvement principles leveraged by companies such as Toyota Del Monte and the U.S. department of Defense. And now, here's your host, Ron Pereira.

Hey there. This is Ron Pereira with Gemba Academy and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the Gemba Academy podcast. As always, thank you so much. Welcome for taking time out of your day and your week to listen to the show and for watching our Lean and Six Sigma training videos over at Gembacademy.com we definitely appreciate each and every one of you. Now, before we get into the show, I have a quick update as it relates to the podcast. So we've been going strong on a podcast for 125 episodes and something that we've tried to do is be very consistent in our approach. We deliver a new episode every Thursday and we try to follow the same format. Now, we did change the reflection section question up about a year or so ago, so that was something that was different. But we are big fans of podcasting in general and there's a lot of great shows out there and there's lots of ideas that we have for how we could make our show even better. But the most important thing for us to understand is what you, our listeners, value. So in order for us to kind of understand that, we've created a very short survey. And you can find this survey over@gembapodcast.com survey1. And that's the number one. So again, it's gembapodcast.com survey1. Now you can complete the survey in probably 30 seconds, so it's really short. But there will be some open ended questions in there to allow you to give us some direct feedback and don't hold anything back. If there's something that you really love about the show, let us know. If there's something that really bugs you about the show, let us know. We want to know everything. And as you'll see at the very end of the survey, there's a nice little surprise for everybody that takes the time to tell us what they think. So you'll have to go to the survey to see what that is. But that again. Gembapodcast.com survey1 all right, today I'm excited to welcome Dalton Prather to the show. Now, Dalton is a longtime listener of the podcast and as it turns out, he started his Lean journey around Six months ago. And so what we talk about today is just his early experiences with Lean. He tells us about some projects that he's undertaken. He tells us what's gone well, what hasn't gone well. He even asked me a few questions to get my 2 cents on some particular topics that he's struggling with. So I had a great time talking with Dalton, and I think you're going to really enjoy the show. Now. Show notes for this episode can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 125. Again, gembapodcast.com and look for episode 125. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. All right, Dalton, well, thanks so much for taking time to come onto the show. Where are you calling in from?

Calling in from beautiful Houston, California.

Houston, California. Where is that?

Houston. Oh, Houston. It's Central Valley, a bit. Modesto area.

Okay.

Pretty small town, mostly agricultural.

Yeah. Like 78 degrees year round or something like that.

I think it's 100 something right now.

Oh, okay. Okay.

Yeah, pretty. Pretty warm.

All right, well, good deal. Good deal. All right, well, what if we just kind of get started with you telling us a little bit about yourself, your background, and how you first came to learn about continuous improvement?

Sure. So I just recently graduated from Cal State Stanislaw here in Turlock, California. That was back in May. So while I was still in my last semester of school, I started an internship for a startup Lean consulting company, Buddet Consulting, Inc. Through my classes, I never really. I learned a little bit about Lean through my operations, but it wasn't something I thought I was going to do. I majored in business administration, but I got the internship and I did that for about three months. And it was really a great learning experience. It really was a crash course to really learning Lean and seeing how it's implemented, you know, variety of businesses. Our primary client at the time was, and still is, is Duarte Nursery. So they're against agricultural business. They grow various variety of trees, almonds, walnuts, pistachios, that kind of thing, from infancy all the way to near adulthood and sell it to farmers. And they've really invested heavily in their Lean program. It's something that it really takes very seriously here.

Good.

Yeah. Worked for them for about three months, and then eventually the Duarte Nursery actually hired me on back in July. So I've been working now for them in their laboratory where they grow some of their infant plants. It's a really unique process as well. They're able to grow them very rapidly from a clonal propagation process, so they can grow a large amount of trees in a very small area.

Cool. All right, well, so, like, start to, like, you're relatively new. Right. In the Lean world. So how long would you say you've been. Been practicing?

Yeah, yeah, I'm brand new. About six months, roughly. Okay. Something. And I'm still learning along the way, but.

Good.

It's been a great learning experience, and I really see the value in it.

Yeah, well, I've been at it quite a long time, and I'm still learning, so don't worry. Everybody's learning. That's what's cool about this stuff. All right, well, I know you listen to the show, so you already know the drill. We like to start all of our shows with our guests sharing a quotation or two. So do you have one?

Yes, I do. So this was from Mr. Ritsuo Shingo. He actually came and visited our nursery several months ago. And this one really, really hit home with me. There will always be a thousand reasons for why we can't do something, but we really must find the one reason to say, yes, we can. And really what that means to me is, in Lean, there's always going to be roadblocks or things that prevent us from making the change that we want to. But we really need to focus in on. There's always a way that we can do it. We just have to find it and have the attitude to find that answer.

I love it. Love it. All right, well, let's kind of dig in a little bit. I'm curious to hear how things have gone for you as you've begun your Lean journey. And I understand that you introduced Lean to a new department. So let's talk about that. What kind of approach did you take? How did it go?

Yeah, so originally, I was kind of given several projects over there that they feel. They felt that they needed help with at the time.

Now, were you a consultant at the time or this is an employee. As an employee.

As an employee, yeah. That was. This is right when I was brought on. So, you know, pretty recently, about two or three months ago. Okay. So the things that they really wanted, they wanted to find a way to track their inventory better. There's a lot of frequently used supplies that they have over there that, you know, they'll be spending money to place rush orders or, you know, if they run out, it can be, you know, cause downtime with the production. So that was critical to them studying the logistics of supplying the workers that Work there with the various materials that they need. At the moment. They. They have little carts that store a lot of the different supplies that they use during the workday. So really just investigating, you know, are there better ways that we can supply them with what they need? Database tracking for contamination, that's a really critical thing over there at the lab regarding quality, is that these plants are very susceptible to bacterial fungal infections, which can basically kill an entire little crop of plants which we contain in a small cup. So if even just a little bit of bacteria, fungus gets in there, it can really damage it. So they really want to understand why is it happening. And, you know, from there, we can set some goals on what's the acceptable level of contamination.

So is that what you kind of focused on with lean?

Quality is a big part of it. Yeah. I think one thing they did want as well was really standardizing their work and finding their best employees and setting that as sort of the standard for the rest of the workers. Because it is. It's a strange business, really. It's kind of a hybrid between a lab and a production facility. So they do research over there on new products, but they also have to, you know, produce new baby plants for the. For the nursery. So it's kind of a, you know, hybrid, I would. I would say.

All right, so. So what did you do? Like, how did you approach it? Like, what have you. Let's say, did you do like 5s or have you started on a people side of things? Talk about your approach.

Yeah, so where I really started at first was just documenting the process of how do they do things, how do their processes work? So for me, what was easiest was using a camera, like a DSLR with the tripod to just record and see how do they actually do things. And the workers, I think they find it better that if I just leave it on a tripod there and it's just, you know, sitting there by itself, they don't really get distracted by it, you know, instead of some guy walking.

Around with the camera holding it in their face.

Yeah, exactly. It's. It's nice, too. I mean, you can go back as a reference to look at how things were and, you know, do time studies figure out oa that kind of thing with. With the footage that I've captured. So it's been really useful.

What kind of problem were you trying to solve or are you trying to solve?

So the problem I'm really trying to solve is I think there's a lot of wasted movement and probably over processing as well. I Would say in some of their processes. So really trying to figure out how can we make it easier for them to do their job. So using that footage to kind of come up with, okay, maybe we can do a trial run of a different workstation, set up that kind of thing.

So let's fast forward six months from now and you've been wildly successful with lean. What's that going to look like?

So hopefully what that will bring is we won't have to deal with issues like overtime. That's something that we have over there. Hitting our production schedule on time and really, I think making it so the workers are more consistent. There will be some in these processes that are much better than others. So it's very kind of inconsistent level of work that you'll see between some of them. I really want to make it. If it's easier for all of them, I think that they'll be able to perform much better overall.

Now, do you. What we always say is if you're not, you know, not keeping score, you'll never know if you win. Are you guys measuring, do you have like key performance indicators or how does that work?

Yeah, so that's actually something that I'm currently working on. It can be difficult in an environment like this where they're very rushed to meet their production, where they don't necessarily have time to give me the numbers that I need. But that is one of my key goals is I want to get the numbers that I need for quality production, delivery on time, that kind of thing. So we can really set some smart goals. One of the issues as well is just the way that they track the individual workers. It can be very time consuming. Usually they have a binder and they write down this is how many plants that I worked on today. So if there's any way that you think would be better. Yeah, maybe for tracking individual data, like as a department. That's something that I've been trying to figure out myself.

Yeah. So I guess what I'm curious, like is the product is trees. Is that like number of trees per week or month or.

Yeah, so it's definitely. It's pretty unique. So what they do is they use like a small little deli cup, like a plastic cup, essentially, they fill that with a little nutrient rich gelatin and they transplant the little baby plants into this gelatin so that they can grow. So essentially the finished product that we're shipping out to the, you know, downstream is a, you know, cup full of small baby trees that have their roots growing and everything.

So, so that's the product, that's the output of this department.

Exactly, yes.

Do they measure that on like how many cups are sent downstream?

Yeah, usually they measure it in either the cups themselves or like in a tray that fits about, you know, 12 cups.

Uh huh huh. Yeah. I mean, to me, that's the natural thing to focus in on. Right. Is figure out what your daily rate is or if it's hour. I don't know enough about the process as far as lead time, but whatever makes sense. Right. And because that's what you want to increase. Right. With the same amount of people and resources and even less over time and things like that. So I think that's a fantastic way. So, one question. I want to talk about roadblocks here in a second, but I'm curious, going back to that video camera process, how was that. I don't know, how was that received the first time you whipped out that DSLR and throw it on a trip. And threw it on a tripod where people like hugging you and thanking you for doing that or want to punch you in the throat maybe? I don't know.

No. So the ladies over there, I think they're more curious than anything, you know, what's this guy doing here recording us? It's like, oh, are we on tv or something like that?

Yeah, yeah.

But I think the more that I do it every day, they just get used to it. It's part of the job. And I think one thing that's really important by going to the Gemba every day and talking with people is that they really get the sense that you're trying to help them out. And whenever they see you, I think they begin to appreciate it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, I've had some horror stories with video cameras myself back in, back in the day. And what I found was you just have to really communicate what you're doing, why you're doing it, and that it's not about the person, instead it's about the process. Right, exactly. And I've also had it to where I. Instead of me standing there holding it or even leaving it on a tripod, because sometimes it's not conducive, depending on the process, to just sit it on the tripod. But I would have co workers videotape each other and that seemed to be much better than, you know, some hotshot engineer or whatever standing there holding it. So I don't know. There's lots of tricks with that video camera, but I agree that's the most powerful way to capture Something, because then you can go back and you can study everything from time to ergonomics to just any kind of motion or whatever it is. Nothing can beat the video camera, definitely.

And another concern as well that I have is just the language barrier. Where I work, majority of the workers, they primarily speak Spanish. So, you know, it can be a little bit tough. I have to go find a supervisor, someone to translate. You know, here we're just. We're not looking at you for, you know, performance, anything like that. We just really want to see what the process is.

Yeah.

So, yeah, you know, the language barrier is something a little bit tough to overcome. But I think even with that, you know, people are at least beginning to get the idea that I'm really trying to help there.

Great, great. So let's talk about some of the roadblocks. So I guess, you know, language, maybe it could be one roadblock. What else have you encountered?

Part of a big part of it is really communication overall, and that goes all the way from, you know, top to bottom. When I'm out there and I'm doing things like 5s, you know, reorganizing, stuff like that. You know, some of the higher ups there that have been doing this process and working there for, you know, over a decade, they know where their things are. And, you know, if I move stuff around and start changing it, they start to get a little bit hesitant, you know. So I think really communicating what I'm doing day to day is really important.

Yeah.

And getting them involved in the change as well, I think is something that I've struggled a little bit with. You know, everyone in a lot of these places, you know, they're. They're busy with their production. They have to, you know, watch the production schedule, make sure everything's running okay. So they don't necessarily have time to, you know, let's go help the lean guy with his thing, you know.

Right, right.

So, yeah, getting them bought in the process, I think helps a lot.

No, I totally agree. You may have read the book who Moved My Cheats? An old classic, you know, talking about change management and people don't like their cheese moved, so to speak. Right. And, yeah, so involving the people. I think that's probably the biggest advice I could give you is don't move anybody's stuff. Let them move it. You know, kind of coach them through it. And. And, you know, it may not be as good as what you think would could be, but it's okay as long as they're owning the process and getting their hands involved. In the process, that's how you change the culture. Right. Not by one person. Right. Running around.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And I think getting them thinking psychologically, oh, we should do it this way. I think that helps a lot as well. Because if you come at it from the perspective of, oh, you need do it this way, or I think I heard, you know, from the FedEx, Jamie Parker.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's like, okay, you need to have exactly three pens on this desk or anything like that. That's not the way to do it.

Yeah.

Really have to make them think, okay, how can I do this better?

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So. So. So you've had roadblocks. How have you overcome them, though? Like, I mean, do you. I mean, obviously it's not always fun. It can be frustrating. So what have you done? How have you dealt with that?

Yeah, so it can be difficult. Part of it, really. I have to go back and think, okay, what really was the root cause of. Why did this go wrong? So, for instance, like, I've done a trial that didn't exactly produce the results I expected. So, you know, luckily I took video of it. I could see, okay, maybe we didn't do the trial. We didn't have the right boundaries set up. Maybe I didn't prepare enough. But really, going back and looking at what I did and trying to correct it is the most important thing. And consulting with other people who understand the process better than me, again, I've only been doing this for a short time. I think their insight can help a lot as well with that. And even if it's something I might have to put it off or whatever, there's always things that I can improve or change over there. So it helps me move on a bit if I work on a different project for a bit.

So if you could go back, you know, let's say six months at the very beginning of your journey, or whenever it was when you first started with the company and you could. You could kind of talk to yourself and give yourself some advice and maybe do something differently. What would it be, if anything?

Yeah, I would say, really, the first thing before you go anywhere, you really have to go to the Gemba and not just the production, but even, like, the office or where supervisors communicating with each other and understand, okay, how is this process actually working throughout the day? How is communication flowing between supervisors and management? That's something that I still struggle with. But communication flow is something that I think is really important. And it's not always visually apparent, but it really is key, especially for scheduling and Production, that kind of thing. You really need to understand how the communication works between each department.

So I don't normally ask this question on these podcasts, but since you're relatively new on the journey, I'm curious, do you have any questions or is there something that bugs you about Lean that you're just not sure how to approach? I don't claim to have all the answers, but maybe, I don't know, maybe I could give you some advice. Do you have anything?

Yeah, definitely. So I think one of the key things, and I'm still trying to address this, is really before you can get any change going is you really have to build a team and have the morale there to even make any kind of improvement that you need. So I guess what kind of approach would you take to, you know, building a lean team and having people that are motivated?

How many people work in this group or in this company?

So company, overall, it's roughly about 700 in my department, probably about 40 to 50.

And you're all in one location?

Yeah, it's all in one location.

Well, it's a tough question to ask you live on a podcast when everybody's listening, so. But sounds like obviously you have a position there, so your leadership support is there, Right. Or you wouldn't have a job, so.

Yeah, exactly. I'm very fortunate, actually, in that the owner, both of the owners here are very invested in the lean department and really give us a lot of support in everything that we do.

Yeah. Well, I think that the best advice that I could give, even before we get to the building the lean team kind of concept, is for you and really, the owners to kind of sit down and figure out, why do we want to do this? Right. Like, why do we want to practice lean? Why do we want to, you know, continuously improve our processes and really kind of figuring out, back to the Simon Sinek, you know, what's your why? Right. Like, try to understand that and really get clarity of that. And then once you have that, you need to really communicate that. Not actually your owners, I would say, or the leaders of the organization need to kind of communicate that to everyone. And if they haven't already done that. Right, right. And then once you have that kind of understanding, they're like, okay, I get it. That's. That's why we're doing. Then you can get kind of more tactical, and there's a number of ways to kind of go about building a culture. Right. Because that's what you want. Right. More than a team, you want a culture. You want Everyone thinking this way, I would encourage you for sure to read Paul Akers book if you haven't already, two Second Lean. And what you're going to find there is kind of the concept of what Mike Robleski, my good friend Mike Robleski, Lean consultant, he's done some videos for us in our Kaizen Way course talking about simple Kaizen. And it's just starting with real simple improvements. Right. And nothing earth shattering. You don't have to run a five day blitz or anything like that. Just get people thinking about how can my fix what bugs you? Right. Like if something bugs you about your work, let's see if we can fix it, you know, and then document it. And what you're going to find is when people start solving their own problems with a little coaching and support from you, then you're just going to get this momentum going. Right. And so I would say starting kind of small, try to get a kind of a little grassroots organic thing going versus just saying, oh, let me find five hotshots and we'll go around and fix everyone's problems. Right? Yeah, that, that can work. You know, I mean I've been on these so called Lean teams and, and it's been okay, we've swooped in, we help people and move away. Kind of like internal consultants. Right. But what you want to do, I think in your role is get people to just really start thinking about problem solving and trusting you. Right. You need to earn their trust, which it sounds like you're doing. Right. Sound like a nice guy and probably good to work with. And so that's really critical for you right now. It's just building that trust and let them know that you' to help and, and that you're learning. Right. Just be super humble and, and when you mess up, say wow, that didn't work as planned. What did we learn from that? Right. And so I don't know. That's some of the advice. Does that help?

No, definitely. And I, I do really like that approach. I think that's key as well to respect for people. Really?

Yeah.

Is empowering them to do the problem solving on their own. I've heard, you know, on the podcast, you know, in the healthcare industry, a lot of the people, they take the approach where, you know, again, it's a very top down, you know, team of, you know, five, six people, something like that and they're going to telling everyone, okay, we need to do it this way. Whereas yeah, I think it is more organic for people to figure out their own problems really. And then that trust building is definitely key. I would agree.

Yeah. I mean, the hardest part of that is, like, if you're type A, like I am kind of thing, it's kind of like, oh, gosh, let's just do it this way. But you just have to bite your tongue and let the process take care of itself. And then eventually you're like, wow, I wouldn't have done it that way. But, man, that was incredible. Look at how it worked out, you know, so definitely. Yeah.

And I think. I think being humble is key as well. I do work with. There's two PhDs over at our facility, so I'm.

Yeah.

As someone who's just graduated from school, I'm very humbled by that.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I think really, someone who's in. They've designed the process themselves and they really take pride in it, and it's, you know, good.

Yeah.

But I think making them realize, hey, we can make things easier for them, or, you know, like you said, just what bugs me about my job, I think that really is a good approach for it.

Yeah, exactly. All right, very good. Well, Dalton, let's go ahead and transition into the reflection section. And so this. As you know, in your studies of lean, we talk a lot about continuous improvement as one pillar of the house and then respect for people being the other people. So I'm the other pillar. So I'm curious, what does respect for people mean to you?

So to me, really, it means giving people the power to really solve problems on their own. First of all, is giving them the understanding and ability to understand what a problem is. So something, you know, that's like, HR related, you know, why do I have to work overtime so much or, you know, pay grade, that kind of thing. That's an HR issue. Making them really understand a problem of, okay, I'm having too much waste in the way that I do things, or we're not producing as much as we should. Understanding the difference in that problem, I think is really key. And then giving them the tools and understanding to really start digging away at the problem, I think is probably the most important factor of respect for people.

Yeah. What's the best advice you've ever received? And it doesn't have to be lean related, just any. Any type of advice.

I would say, for. For my job and what I do here. And Mr. Richard Oshingo also had brought this up when he. When he had visited. But phrasing it that you should use the question, how can I make your job easier? I think people are a lot More open to change. That way when you come in with the attitude that, okay, I'm trying to help you, I'm not trying to force this down your throat, we got to do it this way. We're really here to help you in the way that you do your job better. And I think people are a lot more responsive to that and open compared to more top down or forceful approach.

Yeah, exactly. Do you have a personal productivity habit that others might benefit from? Yeah.

So again, it's tough coming from transitioning from college to this kind of work environment, but for me, I really, I try and think about what is one goal that I have for the day and, you know, go from there. You know, things happen, of course I get sidetracked. There's other projects or things that come up during the day, but I really try and keep that in the back of my mind, you know, focus on that.

Yeah.

And at the end of the day, just kind of reflect, you know, what, what did I do to help achieve that goal?

Yeah.

You know, maybe some days, you know, I didn't have the time or got distracted by something else and well, bring it on with me. Bring it on to the next day.

Yeah, well, I always call it your most important task. I actually, my wife was. Had a lot going on and always has a lot going on with a lot of kids and whatnot. But, but she was really struggling the other day. It felt like she wasn't getting anything done. I was like, well, what's your most important task today? It was in the morning before I left for work. And she says, well, I got to do this. I said, well, write it down and name two more. What are your three most important tasks? And by like 11 o' clock in the morning, she texted me that all three tasks were done and that could she take the rest of the day off? You know, but you know, she kind of, you know, jokingly. But there's something powerful about just writing down what those most important tasks are, two or three of them, and then going after them and crossing them off when you get it done so that dopamine gets released. Right. And you feel good. So I think it's great that you have that one goal. So that's fantastic. So is there. I know you've been at it for six months, so has there been anything that surprised you as you've kind of begun this journey?

I guess what's really surprised me is that how much people really appreciate it and will really open up to you as well when they see that you're Trying to change things somewhere, especially if they've been, you know, with the company for a long time and, you know, they're just used to things being the way that they are. Seeing someone come in, you know, from the outside and try and change things or improve things for them. I think it's really amazing how grateful they are and how many ideas they can have as well, that can really help you along. Along the way to beginning the lean journey.

Yeah. That's exciting. Yeah. And it's just begun, right?

Exactly.

Awesome. All right, so let's say that things aren't going well. You're kind of having a bad day or a bad week, and you just need to recharge and refocus. Do you have a routine or a process that you follow to make that happen?

Yeah, for me, I really. I get my energy from people, I think. So for me, if I'm getting down in the dumpster, you know, my project's not going as well as I thought it would be. I like to go out to the Gemba and just, you know, talk to people or just watch the processes, and that really helps me refocus and understand, okay, this is what I'm really here for, you know, And I can get a lot of ideas from the people there as well, so that can get me back on track.

Nice. Nice. Yeah. Last question. So I know you're learning lots, but do you have any, maybe any specific goals of what you want to learn, you know, over the next, I don't know, say, three, six months?

Yeah. So two things. Two things I really want to learn. And they'd be related to communication, I guess. First would be, I would say, the communication flows. Understanding that in between, you know, just between supervisors and, you know, managers, that kind of thing. Understanding how scheduling goes, I think is something that's really key in that entire communication flow, and that can go all the way from production control to each different department. But that's something I really want to learn to understand. And second, I would say Spanish is something that's really key for where I work. Bridging that language gap by learning that I think will help a lot, especially in my case where it's a lot of the workers, they primarily speak Spanish.

Yeah. Well, we'll set you up with the Gemba Academy trial subscription, and you can check we've got a whole team doing nothing but Spanish speaking videos now, so you can get your folks watching those, too. That may help.

Cool. Thank you.

Yeah. All right. Well, Dalton, I really enjoyed talking to you. Maybe let's Make a note on our calendars and let's do a follow up podcast in, oh, I don't know, six, nine months or something like that and see how things are going, see how things have progressed and see how that Lean teams developing and all the rest of it. How's that sound?

Yeah, that sounds great.

All right. All right, well, good. How can people connect with you?

Best way to connect with me, you can Find me on LinkedIn. My name is Dalton Prather. You'll see I work for Duarte Nursery on there and that's probably the best way you can get in touch with me.

Yeah. And your last name is P R A T H E R. Right?

Correct.

And Dalton is D A L T O N. Correct. All right, very good, Dalton. Well, hey, last question. Are you thinking about possibly trying to come for the AME Conference here in Dallas?

You know, I've heard you mention it a lot. Again, I'm just starting here, so getting away is a little bit.

Maybe not this year, but maybe next year or something like that. That'd be a great, great conference for you to go to. Just to come.

Definitely. I would like to go to industry conference. So yeah, sometime in the future I'd like to go.

Awesome. All right, well, thanks again, Dalton and I look forward to talking to you again down the road.

Okay, great. Thanks, Ron.

All right, take care.

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