GA 141 | Practicing Continuous Improvement in Japan with Zuhara Chavez

You're listening to episode 141 with Zuhara Chavez.

Welcome to the Gemba Academy Podcast, the show that's focused on helping individuals and companies achieve breakthrough results using the same continuous improvement principles leveraged by companies such as Toyota Del Monte and the U.S. department of Defense. And now, here's your host, Ron Perera.

Hey there. This is Ron Pereira with Gemba Academy, and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the Gemba Academy Podcast. I know I say the same thing just about every episode, thanking everyone for listening to the show and for watching Arlene and Six Sigma training videos over@gembacademy.com but hopefully everyone knows that while it does sound kind of scripted and like I say the same things, we really are deeply, deeply appreciative of everyone taking time to check in. The show continues to grow week over week, month over month, and we're just so honored and humbled to come to you and for you taking time to listen. So thank you. Today I am excited to welcome Zuhara Chavez to the show. Now, Zuhara and I first, I guess, kind of virtually met through LinkedIn. We were connected there and I can't remember how it first came to be, but Zuhara has a really interesting background with Lean and she recently moved to Japan to study, do a PhD, looking into things like different types of mapping and really kind of trying to understand the Japanese culture and how that impacts Lean. And so I asked her, she wanted to come onto the show to share her story and she, she agreed to and really glad we did. We had all kinds of crazy technical problems in the beginning. We kind of joke about it at the beginning of the show. We finally got things ironed out. Our countermeasure was to ditch the, the computer and, and headset and pick up her iPhone and install the Skype app onto her iPhone. So any podcasters out there listening, that's always a great option. So that's how we, how we made this one work. So it was problem solving in action. So it was pretty good. But I think you're going to enjoy the show. Zuhara does kind of talk about her studies and what she' and we also get into some really interesting cultural stuff there in Japan, talking about how harmony is so important to Japanese culture and how that might play into things like continuous improvement. Now, show notes for this particular episode will be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 141. And we actually did get into some random discussions at the end about CrossFit and guy named Jocko Willink, who's a former Navy SEAL who makes all these amazing videos. So we're going to link to Jocko's video on fear, and we talk about that towards the end of the show. So be sure to go check out the show notes page for this episode. It's gonna be pretty good. Again, that's gonna be GembaPodcast.com just look for episode 141. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. All right, Zuhara, well, thank you so much for coming onto the show. Where are you calling in from?

No, thank you, Ron. I'm calling from Fukuoka, Japan.

Okay, well, very good. So everybody that's listening, we like to be fully transparent. Zuhara and myself have been fighting some technology problems. Skype. And calling from Japan to the US Isn't working as well as we'd like, but I think we may have a solution because you sound really good right now, Zuhara.

Awesome. Awesome.

All right. Yeah. So everybody knows we switched over. Zuhara is now talking through the Skype app on her iPhone. So we are problem solving. Right? That's what you see. Countermeasures and testing them, see how it goes. All right.

What a great, great example.

Yeah.

See?

Yeah.

Never give up. All right. So, well, Suhara, again, thank you for coming onto the show. I know it's really early for you, and I appreciate you doing this, and I've really enjoyed conversing with you over LinkedIn and different things like that. I can't wait to hear more about your journey here. But as you know, Zohar, we like to begin all of our shows with our guests sharing a quote or two about something that possibly inspires them. So do you have one?

Yeah, yeah. No. First of all, thank you. Thank you for inviting me. And, yeah, I have one. I choose one. Maybe it's not necessarily from Lean Thinker, but I think it fits perfectly. And it's by Great. Seneca. Seneca the Younger. And it says, if a man knows not to which port he sells, knowing is favorable. And I choose that one. I think it really resonates a lot with me. And also with continuous improvement, because as we know from Toyota Catalytic, we need to set our next target. Right. What's the next condition to achieve? And otherwise will be like a drift boat and nothing will seem like. Right. Yes. So, yeah.

Yes. Got it. Love it. Beautiful. Beautiful. All right, well, Zuhar, let's kind of dig in and tell us a little bit about your background and maybe how you first came to learn about continuous improvement.

I Think I started learning about it way back when I was a college student probably. My background is industrial engineers. So we do learn the concept of kaisen and continuous improvement really since then. But I think it actually started to. I started to learn more and get more really into what it really is lean when I came here to Japan. So I think now I get a better insight. Of course it's always a learning process, but.

Yeah, yeah. So where did you study industrial engineering?

Way back in Mexico.

Okay, in Mexico. Got it, got it. Yeah. All right, all right. So I guess how did you make it to Japan? What was that journey like?

Well, before coming I was actually working in the manufacturing industry, mostly in automotive suppliers right after I finished my college. But it was in way in 2014 when I got a scholarship from the Japanese government. It's called Mex. So I quit my job and I decided to come to start my PhD journey here.

Your PhD. So okay, so what are you studying? What's your research about?

I'm actually second year now PhD student in automotive science department and I mostly focus of course in lean manufacturing, but I'm mostly working with mapping tools, transplants and lean transformations with lean tools. But specifically I'm focusing mapping tools such as bsm, value stream costing metrics based process mapping and cost and profiling, learning what's the best usage from them, like experimenting and learning about cases of application and when and where is that they work better and also trying to understand their lacks and constraints and the metrics that are linked to them. So that's basically it in few words.

Yeah, we'll talk about your. Let's talk, dig into your research a little bit. And I mean what's been easy about it, what's been hard about it? Give us an overview.

Well, I think maybe the hardest part for me so far I believe is that most of the knowledge that is coming out it comes from consulting. There may be a lot of information about it from consulting and from the west, but not really much about it inside. And also another thing, another barrier for me could be the language I do learning Japanese, but it's not the same. Of course I'm not fully fluent and not really knowing much kanji, but that made me the main challenge and also another one is that the concept that we know back in the west are not the same here. So that was probably one of the things that surprised me the most when I came.

Tell me more about. What do you mean? What do you mean by that?

Yeah, for example, let's say things such as kanban or Kaisen or heyunka, they do have a meaning for us back in the West. Let's say I can tell someone, okay, this Kanban car. But here probably it doesn't have the same meaning to people. Like maybe Kanban for them, maybe like board sign. Right. Because that's the meaning of the word. So when I came here, I was expecting to. Everyone was, since this is Japan, I told like, okay, everyone knows what is kaizen. Everyone knows what is kanban or henjuka. But it was not the case. Or for example, with bsm, like, okay, we know what value stream mapping is maybe the pioneer tool. But here they don't really know it like that. Maybe they know it as material and information flow. And maybe if you show them a shard, they know. Oh, you mean this one. But the concepts were really, really differently.

Yeah, that's really interesting. You know, our friends at Lei Lean Enterprise Institute have done a great job in the west, right. Bringing many of these tools over, learning to see. Right. Is how many of us first learned about value stream mapping. The blue book. But you're right. I mean, I've talked to many, many former Toyota folks who. You go to Toyota and say value stream mapping and nobody will know what you mean. I mean they, they will now just because it's so popular. But yeah, material and information flow, right. I mean, this is what they call it, not value stream mapping.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think that, yeah, that's. I mean that was the thing that maybe surprised me the most. Most related to Lean here.

Yeah, yeah. So, so talk a little bit about. I say Lean in Japan. Like, is every company you go into like Toyota or is there a big mix? I think I know the answer because I've been to Japan, but I'd like to hear your answer.

Yeah, yeah, of course, you know, that is. Yeah, it's not the case that Lyn doesn't mean Japan or. Yeah, not really. Yeah, it's not the case. Like, of course there are many good, good examples as Toyota and other ones that are working in developing these, the TPS methodology, of course. But there are many who are the same. They are not really. They don't really know link of concepts or they are not working, not even with fis. So you get a really big mix. Right. And when we come, we're expecting to see everything working beautiful like Toyota does, but it knows that it's not really the case.

What about the word Lean itself in Japan?

Well, in my personal experience, I think they don't really associate Lean that much. Maybe if you Say TPS or Toyota production system, they will get it better, but not really, really lean. So that's another struggle I'm having right now because of course when I get my dissertation or my thesis, I need to define certain concepts in the literature. Right. But I do want to stay far away from the classical lean. Lean, how to say words that we know in the west because here may have such a different meaning.

Yeah. So what do most companies refer to what we would call TPS or lean.

I think it will be like more related to their production systems or maybe, I'm not really sure with the translation in the Japanese words, but it could be like they know, continuous improvement. Improvement, of course, and improvement. The improvement words.

Yeah.

And, but, and maybe standard work, but not really the concept of what, what is inside the link word.

Yeah. So you know, in the west we make a big deal, rightly so, you know, out of these two pillars.

You.

Know, respect for people and continuous improvement. So talk and we're going to talk about respect for people later. But like how important is that, that the humanity side of, of lean in there in Japan, as far as what you, what you've experienced?

I think, yeah, maybe one of the highest learnings for me, I do believe. Because how important is respect? I think it's maybe the key, I do think, because let's say for instance, if we think about being puntual, for example, they are really, really well known for being puntual. And I think being punto had to do with the fact of up to respect for others. Right. For time is such a precious thing that you care about not wasting the other person's time. Right. So you are showing respect to them. Or for example, let's think about maintaining public spaces clean. Like you won't let garbage outside in a public place because you care about common space and respecting everyone's wellness. So it do plays a big role, I do believe.

You know, I've been to Japan one time and Gemba Research back then was the consulting company and Brad Schmidt was the tour guide, is a western guy, but he lives in Japan, speaks fluently in Japanese and so forth. And so he was our tour guide. But the thing that really struck me and Brad was kind of really filling us in on the culture and this and that was the importance of, of harmony in Japan. Talk a little bit about harmony and how important that is to Japanese folks.

Yeah, I really believe a major role, it's really, really, really important. Like how everything works. Like the human within nature maybe. I think that's where you're Referring to maybe the design of spaces or how to maintain harmony or, like, wellness for everyone.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, and I remember one example was how to ride an escalator. And, you know, like, one side stands, the other side leaves open in case someone wants to walk or something like that. And you would disrupt the harmony if you didn't follow, you know, the general guidelines. It was just things like that, the way that you greeted people and the way that you bowed and showed honor and whatnot. Those are the things we're just not used to here in the West. Right.

So, yeah, or like being inside the training, you're not allowed to talk and those sort of things.

Yeah, yeah. So I always wonder, like, how much of that kind of culture permeates, you know, the continuous improvement movement there in Japan versus, you know, our slightly more chaotic, unstructured way of living here in the West.

I do believe it has, for me at least, what I'm getting now is like, it has to go a lot with habits. For me, that may be the key. I mean, it's not like because it's Japan or because Toyota is here. I do believe it has to do with developing habits and maintaining those habits and be constant about it. Like, you learn something and you do it maybe same way over and over, but you just, if you change something, you change it for the better, but you continue doing it. If you see it works, okay, you just keep doing it. Right. So I think, yeah, it may. May go from there. Like the discipline and to pursue improvement and maintaining respect for everyone.

Yeah, yeah. So let's get back to your research a little bit. I'm curious to learn more about. About how you're going about. So you're studying mapping, value stream mapping and so forth. So are you literally going places and attempting to help folks kind of create value stream maps and current state, future state and so forth, or how are you going about it?

No, right now, actually, I'm just finishing the phase of comparing the different tools and I've been doing like some testing, but with theoretical data and mostly with a parade that I was working back in Mexico during my master degree. And we are changing some setups and see which tool works better and so on. But it will be probably, I believe the year is almost over, but maybe by the beginning of next year. The plan is to start visiting some of the companies here, like carmakers or supplies, that allowed us to go there and actually start testing our prototype, our first prototype, and go from there. But we have done so far some visits, so we do have an idea about, okay, what tools they are actually using, if they are using any. But the goal is maybe from next year start applying those tools there.

So what's your initial assessment on which tools are being used in some of these lean organizations? Is it what we would consider value stream mapping or is it more process mapping or detailed process mapping? Swimlane, what are you seeing?

No, so far the most popular one is value stream mapping. I know that I would like, of course, to see the other ones in place, like the one from Karen Martin of Core Metric Based Process Mapping, but they don't really know them. So the goal will be trying to see what they are using. Let's say if they're using balustrade mapping and if, if we want to go maybe more in detail, let's start to apply the other ones and see how they work and try to show them. Okay. Maybe you can get a better result if you use this one and so on.

So Karen Martin, I know, listens to the show from time to time. So, Karen, if you're listening, you need to call Zuhara and get on a plane and head to Japan and get going. Karen's amazing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Very good, very good. So, well, I really look forward to kind of staying in touch and hearing how your studies go and what you're learning and when you start actually creating some maps. Let's talk again. And I would love to hear what you're learning and if you are able to expand the use of different tools there in Japan, that would be pretty incredible.

Yeah, that's the goal, hopefully. Yeah, that's the goal.

Yeah. Very good. All right. Well, good stuff, Zohar. Let's go ahead and transition into the reflection section. We touched on this a little bit already, but we talked about those two pillars, the continuous improvement, which is the tools, the things that we do. But we also have that very, very important pillar of respect for people. So I'm curious, what does respect for people mean to you?

Respect for people? Well, I think it can be manifested in different ways as we were just talking about it. But for me it means listening. I think because through listening we can recognize them, the other, as human beings. Like, we acknowledge they have something to contribute. Like let's say if someone has a problem, and I had that problem before, and I know a solution, maybe not the solution, but a solution. And if I just tell them right away the solution, I'm just maybe shortening their learning process. So maybe respect for people, it comes like, okay, listening and allow them to learn through their Own way.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny, I was just. I don't spend much time on Facebook. It's such a waste of time for me. But I couldn't help. I just. I did glance at it recently, and one of my friends is from England, and he's lived in America for a while now. And he said something to the effect of how, you know, people here, especially in America, you know, we can't even let someone finish their sentence before we're interrupting them. And I just got to thinking, gosh, he's so right, really, that we just don't listen. Right. And especially I pick on myself here in America, but I think in the west in general, general, we have a. A big problem with that.

Yeah. Yeah. I do believe that if we listen more, we will avoid a lot of problems that we get everyday basis.

Yes, exactly. All right, so. So what's the best advice you've ever received?

That's a hard one. Best advice I've ever received.

It could be from your grandmother. You know, it could be anybody.

Yeah, probably. Yeah, I'll think maybe not my grandmother, but I think maybe from my mom. I think we do hear a lot like, okay, don't be afraid. And even now it resonates a lot like, okay, don't be afraid to try new things, to go for new challenges, and give the opportunity to go farther to what you think you can do. So I think that will be the best one so far.

Yeah, that's a good one. You know, I actually, I have an idea for a podcast that I want to do. Maybe it would just be myself. I recently saw. Saw a YouTube video of this guy named Jocko Willink. J.

Really?

You know? Yeah, I love him.

Yes.

So everybody knows him. And he said, well, if you don't know him, he's a former Navy SEAL and he's got this powerful podcast. Have you ever seen the one on Fear of Failure? Have you ever seen that video?

I think so. No. I do know Joko.

Yeah. So really, I love. Yes. Well, he's got this. And maybe. Well, I don't know if we'll have time in this episode, but we'll link to it. But it's about how his premise is that, you know, we lean, we talk about, oh, it's okay to fail. And it is. Right. You learn and this forth. But he said his premise is that you should be scared of failure. Right. Because it should drive you to plan, it should drive you to work hard. And in fact, he says, actually, I don't want you to be. I don't want you to fear failure. I want you to be horrified of failure and his jocko voice. Right?

Yeah.

So good. So good. So I really means a lot to me like this because, you know, I think so many of us do fear failing and so we don't try, you know, because no one wants to lose. Right. But if you don't go and go try to achieve great things, you're never going to. You're never gonna. You're never gonna get anywhere. Right?

Yeah. Actually, I think. I think I've hear him said before, like, like, if you felt be happy because that means like you're moving forward. Like you're in the correct. But yeah.

Oh, yeah, that's so funny. And you're a crossfitter too, right? We haven't even talked about that ever.

Yeah, we haven't talked about that. Yeah, I do. I do a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm gonna drop a couple questions here. We'll talk CrossFit here for a bit because I'm really curious to hear how. How that's working in Japan. But let's talk about maybe, and I'm going to change this question a little bit, but in your studies, right, over this last year or so, has there been anything maybe an aspect of your studies or an experiment that you were trying to. To conduct that just didn't turn out like you thought it would? And if so, what did you learn?

I think many, like, yeah, doing experiments. It's just trying and failing. Right. Just finding different ways of how things are not correct.

Yeah.

But maybe the most important one or meaningful that I can recall so far is like, let's say. Yeah, last year, like, we were trying to apply to this grant for getting some funds and doing some trips and research trips related to my research, and we didn't got accepted. And it was really such a shame because that was going to push maybe faster what I'm doing so far, because our intention is to do some field trips maybe here, but also in Mexico and so on. So. But we learned that maybe we didn't. Yeah, we didn't present the project correctly. Like there were some assets. We thought that it was really well presented back then, but yeah, we learned to that. That maybe we didn't do the best that we should, but it's just a learning process. So we apply again this year. So hopefully we'll get it.

Yeah. Good, good, good. All right. What are you most proud of as it relates to your journey with Lean so far through your studies and your previous work?

I think maybe proud is a strong word, but I think maybe my work ethic because yeah, I think that we can learn a lot of skills and get a lot of new knowledge, but even if it's inside an organization, let's say, or even a research project in a teamwork, at the end, your work ethic will keep you, will keep you there when the times are hard or pushing farther even though no one asks you at the end. It's something that you cannot pretend truly you will come out at certain points. So I think I find myself like self rewarding, like just doing things right and get good results without getting a recognition and just for my own reward. And I think that's a really good thing.

Spoken like a true crossfitter. So before we get the crossfit, because I do want to talk to you about that. What's the best book that you've read or maybe you're reading maybe over this past year or so?

Actually I'm reading now for the second time actually maybe you hear about it is the Power of Habit by Charles.

Oh yeah.

Oh yes, I'm reading it for the second time. I read it back, I think it was last year, but it was actually last month when I was coming from Mexico that I was in the, in the airport and I was just killing time and, and I saw this book there and I had the, the electronic version. But I don't know, maybe you get a. It's. I don't know. There's nothing like having the printed version. So I got it.

Yeah.

And yeah, I've been reading it again and I'm now really taking my time to, to get better the book and yeah, that's. Yeah, I do love it.

That's such a powerful book. The Power of Habit. Highly recommend everybody pick it up. We'll link to it in the show notes. You know that book heavily influenced our culture of Kaizen course where we, we do have some modules on just kind of habits. Right. And how a cue, routine creates a habit. Right. And in the cues aren't going to necessarily change but the routine. Right. Like what you, what you do when you hit that cue. This is, this is what creates greatness. I think so yeah.

It just becomes part of yourself. You don't really are thinking about it, you just do it.

Yeah. Yeah, very good. So, so, so what is the, you know, not just CrossFit but what's the fitness movement like in Japan right now?

I think. Well, it's very different compared to the west of course. Like people here. What I'VE seen. I'm really a lot into sports but they do love to things like such as running and jogging. But let's say for example crossfitting is just start to become popular or like weightlifting. Like it's really rare that you see a woman actually lifting weights or like.

Snatching or anything like that.

It's really rare. Like they may look at you like what are you doing? What is she doing? Yeah, yeah, they do. I was really surprised actually how popular here is like marathon running. So I think I told you like recently I just was in Fuji doing one but that it's really, really popular. But other things such as like no crossbid or weightlifting is not really popular.

Yeah. You know, there's a guy I follow on, he makes YouTube videos and he's actually stationed in Japan. Wad Prep is the name of his show and he's a. I think he's a Marine. I don't know. He's in the military for the US military and he was at a CrossFit competition in Japan and the guy is really, really fit. And this Japanese guy beat him in the final competition was Fran. You know, 21 pull ups the Japanese guy veto. But I was like, boy, that's, it's really catching on. So.

Oh, I need to check that out. How is it called? W Prep.

WAD Prep. Yeah. W O D like workout of the day, then prep. His name is Ben. Ben is his name. And really good videos for, for crossfit movements for anybody that's interested. Yeah, yeah, good stuff. All right, well, Zuhara, I really, really enjoyed talking to you and I definitely want to stay in touch and hear how, how your studies and your research goes. How much longer do you have, do you think?

Well, formally I'll be here until 2018, September, so still time. The way to go.

Yeah, yeah. All right, well, let's keep in touch. And how can people connect with you if they'd like to reach out?

Well, of course through LinkedIn. I'm not super active there, but I'm a regular user so LinkedIn could be there.

The principal way to contact and Zuhara is just so everybody knows if they're just listening, it's Z U H A R A and then Chavez C H A V E Z And that's how we connected was LinkedIn. So I'd say you're, you're, you're active enough.

Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah. I love to connect with anyone, any lean practitioner, anyone who is listening, who is maybe working in something similar than I am or if they are just. Just interested in it, I'd love to connect and share some thoughts. That'll be my pleasure.

Good, Good. All right, Zuhar. Well, you take care. And thanks for taking time to visit with us and have a great day, because I know it's just still morning time. Go have some breakfast.

Yeah, yeah, you too.

You too.

Thank you.

Okay, bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye.

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