GA 144 | How to Apply Toyota Kata with Amy Mervak

You're listening to episode 144 with Amy Mirvak. Welcome to the Gemba Academy Podcast, the show that's focused on helping individuals and companies achieve breakthrough results using the same continuous improvement principles leveraged by companies such as Toyota Del Monte and the U.S. department of Defense. And now, here's your host, Ron Pereira. Hey there. This is Ron Pereira with Gemba Academy, and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the Gemba Academy podcast. As always, thank you so much for taking time out of your day and your week to listen to the show and for watching our Lean and Six Sigma training videos over@gembacademy.com now, today, I'm excited to welcome Amy Mirvak to the show. Now, Amy is going to be talking about the topic of Toyota Kata. In particular, how they were able to apply the coaching kata and the improvement kata to their rapid improvement process, otherwise known as kind of a Kaiser event. And so it's a really interesting exploration into how you might be able to take something that's, you know, pretty standard, pretty, pretty systematic in most organizations and really improve it. So I quite enjoyed talking to Amy. Amy's also going to be one of the presenters at the upcoming Katacon conference in San Diego. So we're going to talk a little bit about that in the show. So I don't want to take a lot of time to talk about it. Now, she does a great job of kind of covering an overview of what she's going to be talking about. If you do want to learn more about that conference, go to gembacademy.com for Kata K A T A and you can learn how to save 10% there. Show Notes for this particular episode are going to be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 144. Again, gembapodcast.com and look for episode 144. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. All right, Amy, thank you so much for coming onto the show. Where are you calling in from?

I am calling in from Kalamazoo, Michigan.

Kalamazoo, Michigan. All right, so let's see. Wolverine, Spartan, Central Michigan, whatever.

Tend to stay nonpartisan on that issue. I went to Kalamazoo College myself.

Okay.

Preschool here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good. You know, I used to go Hornets. Yeah, there you go. I used to visit Cal. I've been to Kalamazoo several times. In fact, believe it or not, my last kind of corporate job here before starting Gambling Academy was with a company called Flowserve. Are you familiar with Flowserve? They have it. Yeah. They have a plant there in Kalamazoo, so been there. Been there several times. So nice place. Little cold in the winter, but I'm from Ohio originally, so, you know, used to the cold, but, yeah, good stuff. All right, well, Amy, I appreciate you taking time to come onto the show. Let's go ahead and just. We kind of like to begin everything with our guests sharing a quote or two about something that possibly inspires them. So do you have one?

I do. And it's a quote from Carol Dweck. She's known for her research on the benefits of having a growth mindset as opposed to a fixed mindset. And this is from her book titled Mindset. And in it she writes, I'll never forget the first time I heard myself say, this is hard. This is fun. That's the moment I knew I was changing mindset. And I love that phrase in the middle. This is hard, this is fun. And for me, it's a way to remind myself that these two things coexist. And if I'm in the middle of something that's difficult or frustrating, it's an easy and quick way to reframe it. So, really, you know, when something is hard, oftentimes, a lot of the times it's a sign that I'm really where I need to be in terms of learning.

I love that. I love that. Very good. All right, well, today we're going to kind of focus a little bit on the Toyota Kata methodology. But before we get into that, Amy, why don't you just tell us a little bit about your background, maybe how you first came to learn about continuous improvement and definitely what you're up to these days.

Well, currently I'm the Chief Quality Officer at Hospice Care, Southwest Michigan, and I've been here for about 10 years now. And before working for hospice, I was a public health epidemiologist. The first place that I really learned about Lean was at a Institute for Healthcare Improvement conference where I went. And Lean was everywhere at that conference, and it was the first I'd heard of it. First I've heard about people using it and just caught the bug and started reading and started trying to apply the principles of Lean at my organization.

Very good. How did you first get exposed to Toyota Kata?

That was through a mentor that suggested I read Mike Rother's book Toyota Kata, which I did. And like a lot of people who read it, I found that it really changed my understanding of Lean in a lot of ways. And I think one of the big ways was he talks about how there's. And one of the ways is that he talks about how the tools of Lean are very visible, the things that you're seeing if you go on a factory tour, and that there is something underneath the visible, the unseen routines and thinking that lie behind those tools. And while the tools are important, he really talks about that scientific thinking that generated those countermeasures. And so a lot of times you'll see organizations that try to apply the tools of Lean and don't see a lot of success. And it's like trying to apply a tool that doesn't quite fit your situation. And so in that book, really thinking about, okay, deeply knowing our processes, deeply understanding them, and then working to find countermeasures that make sense in our organization.

Right, right. Very good, Very good. All right. Well, I understand, Amy, that you're going to be one of the presenters at the upcoming Katacon 3 conference in San Diego. So what are you going to be doing there?

Well, I'm going to be talking about how we integrated the improvement in coaching KATA into our rapid improvement event format. And as an example of how, again, it's that underlying thinking and bringing it to different parts of the work of the organization and all the things we learned from that experiment.

Okay, okay. Good, good, good. So that conference is actually pretty cool, how they're doing it. Well, they say two events, one location, one set of dates. So for anybody interested in Gemba Academy is definitely going to be there. We're going to have a strong presence there. In fact, we're working with the Lean Frontiers guys right now, planning some ideas of how to shoot some videos, maybe even interview some practitioners. No pressure or anything like that. I don't want to freak anybody out. Oh, I don't want to go. They're going to be on camera. No, but it's going to be a great time. What is it? It's February 21st and 22nd and could be worse locations in the country for this in San Diego, California. So that's going to be a pretty fun, pretty fun week. So hopefully everyone listening to this goes and checks it out. Go to. If you want to save 10%, all you got to do is go to gembaacademy.com kata and that's K A T A gembacademy.com kata, and all the information on how to save 10% is going to be on that page. We don't make any. Gemba Academy makes no money on this. We just, we love, love Lean Frontiers. Everything they're about and these two, the TWI Summit and the Katakan are near and dear to us. So big, big fan, so can't wait to meet you out there, Amy.

Yeah, it's going to be great. I was able to go to the conference last year and spoke at that as well. And just the ability to connect with so many different people has been valuable.

Exactly, Exactly. All right, well, let's kind of. We brainstormed a little bit before we started recording on. Maybe just kind of giving everybod, maybe a little sneak peek into to what you're going to talk about and maybe talk about some specific examples of how you guys have applied the kata methodology there in your business. But just a level set of road. We've had several people on before kind of talking about what Toyota kata is, but just maybe give us a quick elevator pitch on what it is just in case someone's not familiar with it.

Well, I'll do my best. So when we say the kata, we're talking about two general routines. One is called the improvement kata and one is called the coaching kata. And what Mike was able to do in his book is to see that routine that's happening at Toyota and express it in very clear terms so that it becomes something people and organizations can practice.

Yeah.

So for the improvement kata, there's four general steps. One is that you understand the direction you're heading, oftentimes called the challenge. And that's in general a goal. You have one to three years out. And then once you understand the challenge, you work to understand the current condition in relationship to that challenge. And there's different routines around that as well. And then once you feel like you have enough understanding of the current condition, you set what's called the target condition, which is a shorter term goal that you think will help you reach that challenge. And once you have that target condition set, you begin experimenting and taking steps that you think will help you reach that target condition.

Yes.

And then alongside of this improvement kata is the coaching kata. So there is a role of a learner who's. Who owns that process. That is the focus, a coach and a second coach. And what the coach's role is to help develop that learner's thinking and help them move towards their target condition through a set of structured questions that you know, as the coach becomes more proficient, you can move with or away from those questions to help develop that learner's thinking.

Yes. Beautiful. Awesome. All right, well, let's kind of dig in a little bit, Amy. And I don't know which case study you want to kind of focus in on? I know you're going to be focusing on kind of a rapid improvement events at the conference. So how do you want to go? Like, what do you want to say about Toyota Kata and maybe how you guys have some practical examples?

Yeah, I think what I like about the kata is that it can be applied in different ways. A lot of people talk about it as being fractal in nature. And so one example of this is we did take these routines, the Improvement in Cochin Kata, and we did our best to integrate them into our, you know, more conventional rapid improvement event format. And so, you know, sometimes with rapid improvement events, you end the event with a lot of action items, and there's a great deal of work generated that then takes place outside of the event. And what we tried to do with this last improvement event was to use the kata both during the event and also to help us work towards that challenge. And what we found was while we use those routines during the event, we had success. And then at the end of the event, we really had a springboard to continue the work outside of the event. That was very organic and easy. It was a good transition, and the learning and the improving continued seamlessly outside of the event.

Well, I mean, if you're comfortable doing so. And I don't share anything, you know, confidential or anything like that, but I mean, are you able to maybe even just give us a little overview of, like, first of all, aside from improvement kata, coaching Kata, like, what was the problem you were trying to address?

So the problem that we were trying to address had to do with how we manage the scheduling process for our home care hospice clients. Okay. And what we wanted was to improve that process in terms of its flexibility. We wanted to be able to turn on a dime efficiently if unanticipated needs for our hospice clients came up, which, as you can imagine, happen. So we wanted to make sure that this scheduling process was responsive. And so that was the challenge given to the rapid improvement event team, was to develop this. And so that challenge was set at an organizational level. And then during the event, we set a target condition related to wanting that function to be done by the schedulers in our organization as independently as possible at the time of the event. The nurse managers were very involved in that, and it wasn't the best way to do it. And so that was kind of the target condition that we set within there. And what was great was that during the event, we were able to take small steps during the day of the event. And then between days of the event and see our progress and feel really good about that and know that we were on the right track.

So what was different? I mean, obviously you've been doing rapid improvement events before this. Right. So what was different about this event as you applied the improvement kata or leverage the improvement kata, Coaching kata, Like, what was different?

I think the biggest difference was that the way we've done it prior is we would try to predict the future state to a very high degree. We would try to map the whole thing out and try and get it perfect outside of, inside of the event.

Yes.

And so, you know, you're working in this dynamic environment with lots of people who have great ideas and you're really, you know, getting to that future state. And oftentimes when you move outside the event, that future state, you know, maybe it wasn't as realistic because outside you start moving towards it and you find the obstacles.

Yes.

And so instead of trying to perfectly map that future state, we followed the improvement kata instead and we said, okay, we're not going to try and predict everything that we want to happen here. We're going to focus on that first target condition and we're going to start moving towards it and we're going to learn as we go.

You know what I love about that is my, I've had some mentors over the years who, especially when I was first learning about like, things like value stream mapping or whatever it might be. And you know, a very traditional way of doing value stream mapping, in fact, this is even how we teach it at Gamba Academy is, you know, you create your current state map and then, you know, the next day or whatever, you start on and create a future state map and then you try to figure out, you know, bridge the gap, like, how are we going to go from current to future? Well, I've had some mentors who actually proposed, don't even worry about the future state map, get your current state identified and then follow along and just start making improvements. So that seems very similar to what you're describing here. And it's not that we don't have any idea of what we would like it to look like down the road. I think, you know, maybe he has some general ideas, but you don't obsess over it, Right. You really just focus on what's that next step that we can do. Yeah, it's like I want to get, I want to lose 30 pounds and I want to have a six pack or something in my abs, you know, like, but what I got to do. I got to eat a salad today. Right. And go work out. Yeah, right. Instead of.

Yeah. And that's how that that challenge works, is that, you know, longer term, and there is definition to it, but it's not that complete process part about how am I going to get there.

Yeah.

And, you know, as you take on these obstacles, it inevitably shifts the other ones that you thought were there, either adding new ones or eliminating them. So the, you know, looking at the waste of trying to predict a future purpose, there's that kind of reshuffling that happens every time you move towards that future state that this using the improvement kata in the event really helped us not have to even deal with at the end of the event.

Yeah. So are you able to maybe share an example of one of the target conditions that you were aiming for and kind of how you approached it?

So one of the target conditions that we set, the first one that we set, was that we wanted the clinicians in the field to be sending back their data after visits in a timely manner. And the reason that's important is because then that updates the scheduler's view of what's going on in the day.

And I guess that hadn't been happening before this.

It was happening, but not at the level of frequency and reliability that we wanted in order for those schedulers to have, like that up to the minute view.

Yeah, got it, got it. Okay.

And so as a team, we set that target condition, and it date was the end of the week. So we wanted to see a certain amount of improvement by the end of the week for the particular individuals that we asked to participate in this experiment.

So who was involved in that kind of coming up with the ideas? Were any of the people in the field involved or how did that work?

Yes, on the team were representatives from anybody who touched that process. So we had several nurses, we had a manager, we had a hospice aide, we had a social worker, kind of that whole interdisciplinary team had a seat at the table.

Was there any conflict, any disagreement?

We had healthy disagreement on perhaps which direction to go. And I think that's also something that the kata helps with, is, you know, you have kind of two ideas, and the kata, it makes it, well, let's try this one. Let's experiment.

Yeah.

And if that experiment doesn't work, we learned, let's do the next experiment. So that mindset, again, that scientific thinking mindset, I think helps in those kinds of facilitation challenges too, when you're the one facilitating.

So what are the coaching? How did that come in on this particular example?

Well, in this example, we, as a team developed those next steps, and someone became kind of the primary learner for that particular step. And then that step would get taken outside of the meeting. And then the next time we were all together, we actually did a formal coaching cycle at the start of the day, so that I was in the coach role and the other individuals in the learner role. And we actually went through the five questions of the coaching kata.

Go ahead. What are the five questions? If you don't mind just sharing those.

So the five questions of the coaching kata are, what is your current condition? And then the second question is, what is your target condition? And then the next part is a reflection on the last step that you took. So it's, what did you plan as your next step? What did you expect? What happened, and what did you learn? And then it talks about, what are the obstacles preventing you from reaching your target condition? Which one are you addressing now? And then the next part is describing your next step. What is your next step? What did you expect? And then the final question is, when can we go and see what we've learned from taking that step? Yeah.

And that last one's so important. Right. And it's often missed is we're sitting in a conference room talking and looking at a beautiful flip chart or whatever it might be. But we don't actually go to the Gemba and. And see. So get your boots on. Right, Right.

And I think that the reflection part is so essential. I mean, you're reflecting at every single step, and then also reflecting at the. When you either reach or don't reach a target condition. And I think that, you know that consolidation of thinking and what you've learned is really important as. And it helps people clarify. Okay. I think it's best if we move next in this direction, or I really learn more about what it means to move towards a target condition. And it's easy to skip the reflection step as you want to move on to the next part. But that's key.

Yeah. Yeah. Love it. So how did this particular one turn out? Was it success?

We were successful. We improved. Our target condition was to see a 50% improvement based on a change in process, and we saw 58% improvement.

Nice.

So that, you know, again, that part of that coaching kata is when you reach these target conditions, you. You have a sense of mastery about it. Oh, I'm getting better at this. I can do this. You know, I understand this. So even building that into the event.

Yeah.

So that you're building up that confidence. Was good to see.

Yeah. I recently interviewed Jess Orr and she. We were talking about kind of intrinsic motivation and, you know, the Dan Pink model. Mastery, autonomy, purpose. Right. And she touched on the importance of purpose and all that. So it's beautiful that you touched on mastery because that's so important. Right. That people start getting a little bit better and then they get hungry and they want more. And so it's a great, great way.

And I think also, you know, in that room were the frontline managers, and so they've been practicing the improvement kata outside of this particular event, but it gave them another chance to practice, to see me modeling it, to practice themselves. So they're just gaining that proficiency with practice.

Right, right, right. Awesome. Awesome. All right, well, very good. Well, I can't wait to hear your talk in San Diego and going to be really fun to kind of hear the whole story, so that'll be great. So let's go ahead, Amy, and transition into the reflection section. And the first question that we have is those two pillars of lean, continuous improvement and respect for people. So I'm curious, what does respect for people mean to you?

Well, I think some of the key things that it means for me is that you're communicating and you're listening far and wide, that you're sharing vision of where we want to go as an organization, and that you're asking for and receiving feedback with openness and then, of course, responding to it. And I think also key to respect for people is really enabling people with the resources and the skills they need and giving decision making authority to them so that it's not just about getting feedback that we use for decisions, but actually giving that decision making authority to people within the scope of their work.

Got it. What's the best advice you've ever received?

Well, I think that the pieces of advice that I've most valued over the years are all kind of general variations on a theme. And that's to be vulnerable, to try new things, to not let fear of failure stop you. And also in that same vein, really relying on others and asking for help when you need it. I think we all have our strengths. We all have our weaknesses. And here at Hospice Care, Southwest Michigan, I'm really lucky that my team, my immediate team, is a really great mix of thinkers. We all kind of see things differently and can help each other see our blind spots. So, you know, really relying on each other makes us a better team as a whole.

Yeah. Yeah. What are you most proud of as it relates to Your journey with Lean.

I think I'm most proud of how we involve people in the process and really make sure they're at the table. Like in the example of the rapid improvement event, that people who are doing the work are included and really driving those improvements that we're making. So being expansive in it and inclusive and leading people toward really this mission driven organization where everybody has that intrinsic desire to make this work better and make this workplace better. So really involving everybody in that.

Yeah, got it. Is there a book maybe that you've read over this past year or maybe you're currently reading it that really knocked your socks off?

Well, I've been reading a lot about emotional intelligence right now. And so Daniel Goleman's work and some of the books related to that and I think that it's really struck a chord with me recently and this is actually something else I'll be talking about at the conference is how being an emotionally intelligent leader in an organization. You know, kata is a way to practice emotional intelligence. It really has the elements of being self aware, being aware of others perspectives and leading with compassion. So I've been reading Daniel Goleman's work and also in a related vein, a book about spiritual intelligence called SQL 21 by an author of the last name of Wigglesworth. And that's been a great book and she has a TED talk too. And I think there's a lot for leaders to learn in terms of emotional and spiritual intelligence.

Nice. Well, we'll link to both of those in the show notes. So, Amy, is there a knowledge or skill area that you feel you need to improve in in order to become a better, stronger lean thinker?

I think I have a lot to learn about spreading the practice of Lean and Kata in particular. I work in a smaller organization compared to lots of others and I think I have a lot that I could learn from my colleagues that work in larger organizations about how to move success through an organization and how best to kind of facilitate that work.

Very good, very good. All right. Well, Amy, it's been great chatting with you and again, I can't wait to see you out in San Diego. Why don't we just wrap the show up with you sharing some final words of wisdom and then tell folks how they can connect with you?

Okay. I guess maybe for me something that's also been meaningful lately is journaling. So, you know, taking time each day to reflect on maybe some one thing that's significant happened in the workplace that, you know, something I'm learning from a way to one recharge and another way also to gain perspective, maybe being able to look back at that, at those journal entries as a way to put things in perspective or remind myself of important lessons that I already learned. So that I think is an invaluable tool, too.

Do you literally write it down in a Moleskine book or something like that? Or you do it electronically or how do you journal?

Yeah, there's this little tool that I came across. It's called Three Minute Journal. And it's just a little website where you can jot a paragraph down and it just captures it for you. An easy place to go.

What is it called again?

I think the website address is 3minutejournal.

Okay, cool. I'll check that out. I've never heard of that. That sounds pretty neat. All right, well, again, thanks, Amy. It was great chatting with you and we'll see you out there at the Katakon 3 and in San Diego.

That's great. Looking forward to it.

All right. Okay, take care.

Bye.

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