GA 145 | How to Grow as a Lean Leader with Edward Gemin

You're listening to episode 145 with Edward Gamin. Welcome to the Gemba Academy Podcast, the show that's focused on helping individuals and companies achieve breakthrough results using the same continuous improvement principles leveraged by companies such as Toyota Del Monte and the U.S. department of Defense. And now, here's your host, Ron Pereira. Hey there. This is Ron Pereira with Gemba Academy, and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the Gemba Academy podcast. As always, thank you so much for. For taking time out of your day and your week to listen to the show and for watching our Lean and Six Sigma training videos over at Gembacademy.com we definitely appreciate each and every one of you. Now, today, I'm excited to welcome Edward Gamin to the show. Now, Edward has a really interesting background, and he's practiced lean in kind of the automotive industry, and now he's acts as a lean consultant. And so what we spend our time talking about is really kind of what his first few years of lean look like and how. How he kind of grew as a lean practitioner, a lean thinker, a lean leader, and some of the transitions that he saw happen with primarily the people involved in a process. And we also had a nice discussion talking about some technical side of lean, like line balancing and stuff like that. So we get a little bit geeky with. So if you're industrial engineer or something like that, you're gonna really like that part. So show notes for this particular episode can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 145. Again, gembapodcast.com and just look for episode 145. Okay, enough for me. Let's get to the show. All right, Edward, well, thanks for coming onto the show. Where are you calling in from?

I'm calling in from the amazing state of Colorado. And thanks for having me on.

Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, my wife actually just flew out to Colorado to visit a friend and said it was a little bit chilly.

It is a little bit chilly right now, but that means the snow's coming in and get out on the slopes.

That's awesome. Yeah, you know, we're. I'm here in. In Texas, and it's. Well, we're recording this here in. In December, and it's supposed to be 74 degrees on Saturday, which is awesome. And then 31 degrees at the high on Sunday. So that's not awesome.

So it's not so awesome.

No, that's a typical Texas weather here.

It's going to be cold. At the slopes tomorrow.

Yeah. All right, well, very good. Well, thanks for coming on, Edward. As you know, we kind of like to get things started with our guest sharing a quote or two. So do you have one?

Yeah, I have several quotes I like to use in my Lean training. One of my favorite quotes I like to use is by Charles Darwin. It's not the strongest of species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. And I really like using that quote because it allows me to talk to the. Talk about the importance of lean and the willingness to change.

Yeah, yeah.

So you can. You can simply just swap out species for companies, and the team can talk about companies in their everyday life. You know, companies that were too big or really strong, like the banks American taxpayers had to bail out. Yeah, you can talk about really intelligent companies, too. But the best part is when you ask about companies that are most responsive to change. And the company that is brought up most is. It's usually Apple. Apple is the one that's brought up the most because they weren't in the business of making music players. They made personal computers, and they were actually really close to bankruptcy before they changed their thinking and their focus and focused on their why. And they really created, you know, the ipod, iPhone, imac, everything, and really kind of revolutionized their industry.

Yeah. Yeah.

Which kind of brings me to a second quote I like a lot, which is by Simon Sinek, which is start by start with why. And I like that for two main reasons. First being I truly believe with what Simon Sinek says, people buy why you do what you do, not what you do.

Yeah.

And second, I think it really has a lot to do with Lean. By truly understanding why people do what they're doing and what they're doing, you can really understand. Fix the real hard problems. Yeah. Yeah.

Simon's amazing. Yeah. We actually interviewed him back in. I think it's episode 76. So if people haven't listened to that episode, they should go check it out.

He's.

He's one fast, one fantastic thinker, you know, I don't know how else to.

Describe this podcast from his TED Talk is really amazing.

Yeah, isn't it?

His book was really good, which is really how I got that quote. Really? Yeah. Great. Great.

All right, Edward, so let's go ahead and tell us a little bit about your background and maybe how you first just came to learn about continuous improvement.

All right. Well, I got my degree from Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio, and that was in operation management, and that was probably my first Exposure to lean manufacturing and the concepts. I had the opportunity to read the, the book, the goal, one of my, one of my classes, which is just amazing. And then I, you know, got a job at automotive appliance company where they made. Well, I was, I got a job as a process engineer in a rotational department. So I got the get a wide variety of exposures in different positions, which was just amazing. And that's kind of where I got started and you know, moved from there.

What about lean? So like how did you really get started with lean?

Oh, I kind of really got started with lean. Kind of rather unexpectedly I kind of built a reputation at my company kind of being the lean guy because I was, I kind of with applying lean techniques and principles and concepts and that really got me a promotion to the lean engineer position. And from there I really found my true passion. I really learned a lot about lean manufacturing and they really just supported everything that I believe with, you know, the philosophy of respecting people and attacking processes by using kind of data input.

So was this, this was at your, that first company, the automotive company when you were.

I was at my automotive company. So I worked through the, the rotational and I was really kind of hands on working with the operators and my process engineer and supervisor roles to fix problems. And my bosses really had me pegged. They're like, this guy's a lean guy. They've been looking for someone because I, the company had a lot of false starts. They brought in consultants that kind of do lean and then they also had, they're just kind of throw the lean duties. Lean engineering, continuous improvement on top of other manufacturing engineers that were already, you know, over overworked and burdened.

So half, so halfway, halfway through that first year working there, what did like a typical Wednesday look for like for you? Like what was a lean kind of thinking process engineers world looking like as a process engineer?

I mean I did different, different jobs, those in rotational. But I mean I would really kind of go out and you know, do some kind of improvements not in the kind of lean continuous improvement structure, but go out there and you know, fix and do work instructions and update, you know, standard work protocols and procedures.

What kind of problems did you see that first year?

The first year in lean? The big problem I encountered? Well, there was two big problems I encountered the first year. I had to really win the employees over because of all those false starts with lean. The employees didn't really have a positive attitude about lean. They didn't really understand it and I had to really win them over and show them, you know, it really benefits them. And we're here to support and respect them and you know, make their jobs easier and and just better.

So how'd you do that?

It was just the hands on Kaizen events. So I would go through and do the Kaizen events and you know, really work on the employees. And a lot of time I'd do a lot of hands on. Like I'd go work the assembly lines with them or go work the eco powder coat line, you know, move the parts and really kind of get a feedback and understanding what they do in their daily life and on the line. And that kind of really earns a lot of respect if you're willing to get out there and get roll your sleeves up and get dirty and work with them.

What kind of events did you guys do? Can you think of any that were especially outstanding?

There's a lot of great events. One of the first events that really had a dramatic impact on the customer PPM level as well as labor savings was we did a line balancing event and we went out there and worked on assembly line. And what we ended up doing is we restructured the line before like there was no inspection until the end. So once you assembled all the parts, that's when you would find defects. There was lots of handling because each component was assembled by a different operator. And we put in a fixture that made so easy that one operator could assemble three different parts using this assembly fixture before passing it onto the next. So that was able to drastically reduce the labor in there. And also by reducing all the handling, we were able to improve the customer PPM level by over 70%. Wow. Which just was huge. And that was original reason we got brought onto that project because we were getting so many customer rejects.

So let's get a little geeky and talk like industrial engineering a little bit like talk about how you guys did line balancing. Go out there with stopwatches, video cameras, or what did you do? How did you approach that?

I'm a big video cam person. So we videotaped the line and then we go into the conference room and we did some stopwatches, kind of get the times and tasks. And then we did a stack bar chart to kind of show what actions and how much time each one of those actions or tasks took. Use an error bar to kind of show the variation of each one of those tasks. And we were able to look at that data as well as the layout of the line and kind of figure out what we needed to do. And then we were able to do some tri storming with building some fixtures that would allow better part presentation as well as easier to clip the different components into the panel.

Yeah, you know, I'm a huge fan of videotaping processes and now there's a whole art to that. So I'm curious, like how did you guys go about that? Was it engineers running around with the cameras or you set it up, or did you talk to the people about why there was cameras? Because it could be anxiety. Right. When you first bring out video cameras, how did you approach that?

There's definitely anxiety whenever anybody gets filmed. But you just make sure that you emphasize, you know, we're just here to look at the process and what you're doing to make it easier for them. And that allows for a lot of good conversation between the operators and how you're going to use the video. And you could even invite them into the. Into the. When you review it.

Yeah.

And that's really kind of key is to get them involved. So the Kaizen event, we had lots of operators and group leaders, supervisors, you know, real cross functional team coming together to work on this. And we actually did a fishbone diagram to kind of figure out where the scrapper quality was coming from. And that came to handling. And then we started looking at the task and how could we line balance the line better to reduce all the handling and the parts being stacked on top of each other. Because one operator, you know, his task takes a lot longer than the first operator. So that person's stacking parts in front of them and it just. It's not an enjoyable experience to be the guy that's. That has all the work in front of him.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, something else that I learned back in the day with videotaping, I remember there was one event that we were doing in Utah and it was especially. There was just terrible energy in the room on the shop floor about these video cameras. And it was because it was some engineers running around and maybe the operators didn't trust those guys completely. So what we ended up doing was we had the operators kind of videotape each other. And the minute we did that, it totally changed. It was almost like a game and a joke and they were laughing and having a good time with it. And to your point about explaining that we're videotaping the process and all that, but just having your friend or one of your trusted colleagues who you see every day standing in front of you sometimes it really lessens the anxiety. So that's something else folks can try.

Another good Trick is actually with the technology that changed the GoPros, you can get a chest harness or a hat clip.

Yes.

And that person is not actually on the video camera. You just get to see what they're doing with their hands. And that eliminates a of lot, lot of the anxiety.

Yeah.

You know, people being judged if they don't know really know who's. Who's doing the task. You just see the hands moving.

Oh, that's a great one. Yeah. I missed the GoPro phase when I was back in industry, but that would have been fun.

It's good. They're really big files. That's one negative is a huge files that they're recording.

Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. So what did I guess the lean structure look like at that company when you guys were going there in the beginning?

So when I first started my first year, I did what kind of most people start, they're doing kind of random error kaizens. So I used data to really drive where the biggest impact was going to be for the company. So I used that data to kind of pinpoint where those items were. But once I kind of got the employees engaged and that started to understand lean and lean thinking, I started getting a lot of continuous improvement ideas. I was getting so many continuous improvement ideas, I actually had to create a database to keep track of it and I would post it in their areas. But that created two big problems. First, a lot of really good ideas from the operators had to sit because I had to prioritize which one's going to be the biggest impact of the company. So that was a huge problem. And another problem was the employees were still heavily relying on the continuous improvement department to make all the improvements for them. So going into my second year, I looked at structuring the system differently. And how I did that was I kind of broke up into three major objectives. First, we started using value stream maps that would really link their improvements through overall value sharing. And then second, I'd use continuous improvement events to drive the large improvements and different things that was pointed out in the value stream. And third, and most important was I started really focusing on empowering the workforce to address their own improvement ideas and concepts. Yeah, this is kind of the whole concept of quick and easy Kaizen. Or if you're Paul Akersfan, two. Second lean.

Oh, yeah. Yes.

This really created a very dynamic improvement system.

Yes.

First, managers had a clear path for improvements on their value streams. The CIA department still drove large improvements through big events and challenging problems. And then the operators were able to Pick whatever bugged them and do lean by applying A three method. And this was just really astounding to see the operators get engaged and work to solve their own problems. It was so good that one operator and her team was able to eliminate the fourth highest downtime from her work cell, which is just amazing.

Yeah, just think about the empowerment that those folks felt and the energy that they felt to keep going.

Right.

Because it almost becomes addicting, for lack of a better word. When you start making improve like that.

And you want to keep doing it, you fix what. What bugs them. And the whole structure was. We would go and they would do weekly reports. You know, how their job's going and where their. Where their problems are and what they're working on their. A3. One group leader was upset that his crew had a higher scrap rate than any other shift. And he was like, I'm doing my project on this. I don't want to be last. And he. He found out that one of the operators was really kind of the root cause of the scrap. It was because she was shorter than this average person. Person doing the job, and they. She wasn't able to really do the job the way it was designed. So we simply bought an adjustable table, made it more ergonomic for her, and it brought the scrap right in line with the rest of the shifts and crews. The simple things like that driven by the operators is just amazing.

Definitely better to get adjustable table than a stool. Right. To stand on. That's really good, man. That's a great example of respecting people. Right. So, good stuff. Good stuff. So. So. So obviously you've got. You've gotten into consulting now, so talk about that transition and. And what you're up to these days.

All right, well, the consulting's a little bit different than being able to have a long, extended period of time to really help change the culture and focus on their improvements and the structure and building that foundation. Because usually as a consultant, you're brought in to fix specific problems or issues, and you don't have a lot of time to do that. So you go in, you do your best to kind of coach, mentor, and teach lean tools and fix those issues or problems that you're brought in. But unfortunately, you have to go on to the next problem afterwards. I do really love hearing from the site that we used to work at and hearing about improvements that maybe you suggested or scoped out while you're being there and seeing them implement that to great success, and maybe you didn't have the opportunity to work on that because it was out of scope or they weren't quite there yet on Lane Journey, but to see them grow and get that.

Yeah. So before we started the episode, we were just kind of talking about some of the work that you've done and talking about a little bit about the difference between kind of multi site lean implementation or rollout, for lack of a better phrase, as compared to like a single site implementation. Talk a little bit about that.

Okay. First, at a multi site, every. Every site has their own issues and problems and even their understanding where they are in the lean journey and what their problems are. So the, the big difference is you got to go in there and determine and develop a lean strategy for each site and from there you go out and you attack those issues and really focus on it. And that's a big difference than being with one site where you can really focus on developing a strategy to kind of grow the lean culture, More of a long term approach versus individual site.

So if you have a multi site operation, are you saying then that you kind of. They may have different strategies or is there going to be any alignment kind of from a Hoshin perspective or what does that look like?

The Hoshin would always come in play with corporate goals and alignment. So you may want to focus on downtime at both sites, but their issues can be completely different on downtime. One person's downtime could be directly driven through material handling and the flow of material through the site, as another site could. Their big problem is changeover. So their approach to how many changeovers you do and how do we eliminate the changeover task and make them simpler and easier for the operator to. To quickly change from one product family to another.

So what is your favorite type of work to do? Single site, multi site. What do you like?

Well, they both have their benefits. Multiple sites definitely keeps things very exciting and interesting, which is awesome. But individual site has its own rewards because you can really see the site grow and mature. Lean culture change completely. So you start seeing those operators and employees getting engaged a lot more than multiple site. You get less impact there.

Exactly, exactly. All right, well, very good, Edward. Well, let's go ahead and kind of transition into the reflection section. And we've already touched on a little bit, but we spend a lot of time in lean talking about those two pillars, respect for people and continuous improvement. So what does respect for people mean to you?

Well, respect to people is really the heart of lean. It means empowering them, trusting them, and really being there to help and coach. It's really having to show that you care and listen to them and treat them like you want to be treated. The biggest component of respect is taking the time to see their point of view and their, the reason why they do what they do. And it's, it's just really important. I think it's the foundation and the most important thing about doing lean.

Yep. All about the people. What's the best advice you've ever received?

Wow. I received so much good advice over the years. It's going to be hard just to pick one, but I'll pick Be fearless. I think no challenge is too big to conquer. The one thing I've learned it really pays to be flexible and being able to adapt to new challenges, being able to fill a role in a company to meet a need is just priceless. But it takes keeping an open mind, ability to learn, whether from YouTube or a book, or just asking the right questions. And that always surprises me. People that don't take the time to really ask terrifying questions if they don't understand a task or subject. You know, they just go out and blindly try to attack something without really knowing. Yeah. So the advice I leave with is don't be afraid to do and learn. Be humble and be willing to ask questions and in the end be willing to challenge yourself and maybe fail. I don't think there's anything better to grow and satisfaction than getting out of your comfort zone and learning and hopefully being successful.

Yeah, got it. So can you think of an experiment or maybe a project in your past company or in your consulting work? Either one that maybe didn't turn out like you had planned and if so, did you learn anything?

You always learn from your mistakes. I think that's critical to be a go back and look at what went right and what went wrong. And that's one of the components I do to all my continuous improvement events is at the end the team gets a survey to fill out what went right, what went wrong and really kind of self evaluate on the team and how we can get better. But I think an example I'll give is I was assigned for a special project to be a project manager for a short term project. And it was the whole project, it was $9 million, had to be completed in three months before the end of the year. And I think one of the things I learned from that was I went out there and I charged in, started making sure that the, the vendors and the purchase orders and the work orders match what the order form, the purchase order. So I was trying to make sure that everything match but the problem I came from, that was because I jumped in and I didn't really fully understand how each product and part was used to make. Make the product. Yeah, the. I missed a big problem and that was we actually. The sales order didn't have all the component parts. So I made sure that, you know, the work orders were covered for what we were making and the vendors had purchase orders for everything that we were outsourcing that match the sales order. But we're on the sales orders was missing some key. Key components that would have been obvious if I would have took a little bit more time to understand how each one of these components fit together. Yeah. And that was a lightning experience to me because I would. If I would just slow down a little bit, take the time to understand. And even when this was kind of coming to, like I was talking to the design engineers and, and talking to customer service and other people, things just weren't clicking. And I took the time to say, well, I'm going to go back and I'm going to work on trying to figure out why this disconnect is. I should just immediately had a meeting and said, hey, I'm getting conflicting information. What's going on? Because I lost almost an extra week because of that. I was just trying to figure out what was. Where the mismatch was and why I was kind of concerned about it.

Yeah, yeah, I think we've all been there. So, hey, what are you most proud of as it relates to your Lean Journey?

What I'm most proud of is how the Lean Journey American, the automotive company I was working at before and how I was able to really grow that department. I was able to grow from just me doing lean continuous improvement departments through solid labor savings to bring people from the floor into the lean department and mentor and teach them and continuous improvement and lean to get them to go out there and do their own events and really grow and blossom and to see how that continuous improvement has impacted their lives as well as the company is just amazing.

Yeah. What's the best book that you maybe you've read over the last year or maybe you're currently reading it?

I read a lot of books, especially with traveling, but I really liked Start with why by Simon Sinek. It was enlightening. I thought it was a pretty good book as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So, last question. So you've got a lot of experience, you've been around quite a while and you've learned a lot. So is there a skill or maybe a knowledge area that you still feel you need to improve in order to become a better lean thinker.

I always want to continue to learn and be exposed to more lean topics and where it can be applied. I think the front office is usually overlooked, and I think there's so much opportunity to apply lean to transactional side of lean in the front office. So I think that would be really good to kind of get more exposure and do more projects there, more than I have. And personally, I also would like to maybe really kind of connect finance and Lean. I think it would be really powerful to have, you know, have some kind of training where the employees kind of understand why the business makes certain decisions. And I think that could be super powerful to have employees making decisions like it was their own business.

Yeah.

I was thinking maybe we could do a Monopoly game to kind of show the connection between how lower inventory or cost improvements between, you know, continuous improvement activities really benefits the company and their employees.

Yeah. I guess the tricky part there is. Depends on if you have a traditional cost accountant or they've hired Gene Cunningham to come in and teach them lean accounting. Right.

Because it's definitely a problem.

Yeah, yeah. But I get what you're saying. People understand how the business operates. They have a more better appreciation for. For what it is that they do. What they do. Very good. All right, well, really enjoyed talking with you, Edward. Let's go ahead and wrap the show up with you sharing some final words of wisdom. And then why don't you tell people how they can connect with you?

All right, I'll leave the audience with. Remember to be fearless, trust yourself, trust the process, and just have fun. I do encourage everyone to connect with me on LinkedIn. I do plan on publishing some Lean articles that I've written, and I'm always looking for feedback and good opportunities.

Yeah. And so spell your name, Edward, so in case people are just listening.

It's spelled G E M I N. Yeah, Gomen.

Not Gemin. Right.

It's not Gem, but it's pretty close. Like Gemini without the last I.

There you go. There you go. All right, very good. All right, well, maybe we'll get to meet up sometime this year at a conference or something like that. But definitely enjoyed chatting with you and keep at it and we'll talk to you soon.

All right, thanks.

All right, take care. Thanks for listening to the Gemba Academy podcast. Now it's time to take a free, no strings attached, fully functional test drive of Gemba Academy's School of Lean and Six Sigma over at Gembaacademy.com gain immediate access to more than 500 Lean and Six Sigma training videos free of charge at Gembaacademy.Com.