GA 149 | How to Teach TWI with Jamie Parker

You're listening to episode 149 with Jamie Parker.

Welcome to the Gemba Academy Podcast, the show that's focused on helping individuals and companies achieve breakthrough results using the same continuous improvement principles leveraged by companies such as Toyota Del Monte and the U.S. department of Defense. And now, here's your host, Ron Pereira.

Hey there. This is Ron Pereira with Gemba Academy and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the Gemba Academy Podcast. As always, this is. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day in your week to listen to the show and for watching our Lean and Six Sigma training videos. Now today, I'm excited to welcome Jamie Parker back to the show. Now, longtime listeners probably remember Jamie. She first came onto the show in episode 41 and then again in episode 120. Now, Jamie is a fantastic Lean thinker and last week she, along with nine other students came here to the DFW area and participated in our first ever live kind of blended learning training class. Now, the topic of this class was job instruction, the job instruction aspect of TWI. And what we did was we brought 10 students together for five days. We spend a few hours each day and we walked through the entire JI process, everything from what is JI to the four how to instruct steps. We covered everything from the difference between important steps and key points and everything in between. A massive success. Roger Beitless came and helped facilitate the class along with myself. So we had videos where Steve Cain was kind of teaching the JI process. And then Roger and I kind of got up and just really facilitated the class. So the students got to do all kinds of practicing of their job instruction skills. And in the beginning it was, it was fun. Jamie, as you'll hear, kind of shares, she kind of struggled a little bit in the beginning, but then by the end of the week she had found her leg, so to speak speak, as all the students did and was just much more comfortable with the JI process. So we are putting the final touches on this JI course and hope to release it later here in February 2017 or early, early March at the latest. But it's going to be pretty special. It's going to have a mix of studio based footage which is, you know, obviously very tightly scripted and perfectly produced, if you will. But we're also going to have a lot of this live, somewhat raw classroom footage which can be used by facilitators just to see how a class looks and what they might expect to see themselves. Now, learners also could just watch all of the footage as well. So there's going to be a couple different ways that this course is going to be usable by our customers. So we're pretty excited about that. Now, show notes for this particular episode can be found over at Gemba Podcast. Just look for episode 149. Again, GembaPodcast.com and look for episode 149. Okay, enough for me. Let's get to the show. All right, Jamie, welcome back to the show. You know, you're one of. I don't know if there's anybody who's been on three times. Maybe Mark Graben, he's like this big podcast guru guy. But you're, I think, the first non podcast person who has been on the show three times. So thanks for that. That's pretty awesome.

Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Yeah, very good. Very good. Well, I feel like I just saw you when in fact I just did. It was a couple days ago on Friday. So, you know, we're going to. I kind of mentioned in the opening that we're just going to explore the JI class that we just all experienced. And really I curious to get your perspective on it. I know we talked a little bit, you know, after the class, but we didn't have a lot of time to talk. So a lot of this podcast is going to be just for me to hear from you as well and, and get your hot sports opinions on what unfolded there. So maybe let's just start with what was your, and I truly don't know what was your, I don't know, experience with TWI or JI or anything before coming to the class?

Well, Ron, I have to tell you that before going to this class, I did not have any experience with job instruction or TWI at all. In fact, when Steve told me that TWI was going to be your next big thing that you were working on, I kind of scoffed a little bit and said, well, okay, I guess maybe some people want that. It's not really for me, I think that really I had read a little bit about it. Whether it was through books like Toyota Culture or just other readings that I've done, I've read a little bit about it. And my initial take was, gosh, that just seems so overwhelming and I am not ready for this. I had this idea that I was going to have to develop this big full program and spend hours and hours and hours on documentation and training, and we just were not ready for something that big and that thorough and that complex. I really thought that, hey, that's great for all of the listeners out there or the customers who are ready for that or who have started it, but that I just, you know, it just wasn't. Wasn't really for me. And so I think that that is where I came into this class. You know, maybe a little bit skeptical, almost open, ready to learn. I want to learn. I want to absorb as much as I can, but really thinking it was going to be more of, hey, let me learn about it so that one day in the future I can do something with it.

Sure, sure. So maybe let's kind of walk through the week. You know, on day one, we, you know, introduced JI Just at a high level. What is this stuff? And why should anyone care? And you heard Steve, who wasn't there, but he was there in video, right. So we were watching Steve's videos telling us about, you know, the four steps at a high level of the how to instruct process. And then there was a couple brave souls that got up and tried to teach some folks how to do some tasks. And one of those brave souls was you. So talk about that experience. What was that like?

I did, Yeah. I think Roger used the technique of stare at someone long enough and they'll volunteer.

I guess it was day two, right? It was day two when you actually got up, right? Day one, we did some knot tying and different things like that. See how it was day two when you actually got up, right? The first time?

It was, yeah. And, you know, so. So we started off and Roger was really demonstrating that, hey, you can't just tell by itself and have someone learn a task, and you can't just show by itself. And so he had. He had done a demonstration with a knot tying so that we could see what JI really looked like. Really see it and hear it. And so when they asked for volunteers, I actually was feeling pretty confident, right?

Like, oh, okay, I got this.

I was paying attention. I got it. And so I went up and I was demonstrating how to h. Tape a box. And as I'm going through this, and I think I'm like, yeah, listen to that. I got explained the why for why you need to do it this way. And I did it one time, and then I did it second time, and then I had the person demonstrate it. I got this. But as I was going through it, I was actually changing my instruction as it went along from the first time to the second time. Then like, oh, yeah, and let me add this in. And, oh, I forgot to tell you this. And oh, wait. So I was actually a task that I thought I was Pretty comfortable with. I saw the knot tying demonstration. I can do this. And I quickly learned that it wasn't as easy to teach in a way that is easy for a learner to receive when you're going off the fly.

And to be sure, I think it's safe to say you're an expert at h taping a box, right? I mean, you could do it and you learned it a long time ago, I'm assuming, right?

Yes, I know how to tape a box. I've done my fair share, for sure.

Yeah. So I guess, put another way, having expertise in the skill didn't necessarily translate into you being a really effective instructor of the skill.

I think that is fair to say. Yes. I think definitely learned that I needed to plan. And then that's really when we got into the class of doing job breakdowns and how different it was to go through a job breakdown and really teach using the JI method instead of just teaching from experience.

So your two main trainers, Steve and Roger, are listening right now on the podcast. So no pressure or anything, but once you tell us all about the job breakdown process, give us a little overview of what that's all about. Don't make sure you don't let Steve and Roger down here.

All right, so the job breakdown. And we had an opportunity to practice this multiple times, not just either independently with our own tasks, but then together as a group. And with the job breakdown, we are really breaking down what are the important steps and then what are the key points. And I can remember when we were watching Steve's overview video about it and sitting there with my classmates and looking really nodding, yeah, okay, yeah. Oh, I get it. And then when we started to actually do it to practice, turned out that it was a little bit harder to identify what important step was versus a key point than what we originally thought. When we did it by ourselves, we would come up with one thing, but then when we got together as a group, we would actually come up with a different job breakdown. And so if there's really those important steps, my biggest kind of takeaway or learning is that important steps moves the job forward. And so, you know, whether it was a physical task where we would start to do, somebody would demonstrate and start to do the task, and we would watch and say, okay, now what did you do there? Did that job? Did that move the job forward?

Yeah.

And so, you know, also on the digital tasks, because we had examples with both, which I thought was great because so much of our work is digital now. Right. We're, you know, this Knowledge work that we're in. And we think, oh, that doesn't apply. I don't make widgets. Right. Totally applied. And we could see. Well, we even had some debates, well, is this moving the job forward? Did anything change in that window, or did I just click a radio button? And what changed? So that was really, to me, the big piece of the important step. And then for key points, we would again, we'd go through this process and say, hey, well, now, what did you do there? Why did you do that? And, hey, did that make or break the job? Did it make the job safer or did it make the job easier? And those are kind of those criteria for key points. And repeating that over and over through the week and through this class, through the demonstrations really helped me to understand it much better than I would have without that opportunity.

Yeah. Now, do you remember, like, what was one of the important steps on H. Taping a box. Do you remember what you wrote down?

Yeah. So an important step, for example, was to tape both edges. Right. It was the last. It was the fourth important step to tape both edges. And it was interesting because, in fact, I think. I wonder if I can remember them all. So it was unfold, box, fold, flaps, tape seam, and then tape edges. Those are my four important steps. And they're so simple. Right. Because you want to, like, I think initially the important steps were almost a full sentence. Do this and then learn. No, it's something very simple. Use just a few words to get the gist of it because you're repeating that over and over. And those are those main important steps that your learner is going to remember.

Yeah. And then the key points, like I remember on what your fourth important step, the tape decides. One of the key points was the length of the tape. Right. You specified, or somehow you specified that it shouldn't hang over the edge. Right. Because it. And the reason why was it would get caught in your conveyor. I mean, I remember it. Right. I remember those specifics. And I. You didn't even teach me. I was just sitting there.

Yeah. Yep. It was, you know, so important step was to tape both edges. And the key point was to tape most but not over, cover most but not over. And the reason why is because the flaps will get caught in the belt and pull the tape up.

Yeah.

And I'm not. I'm doing this without a job breakdown. Yeah, we just did it.

Yeah, no, exactly. Exactly. It's pretty powerful. It really is. You know, and you mentioned the digital examples. I think it was a Martina. She did what was hers, she had adding a WebEx to Outlook calendar invite. Right. She explained that everybody in her company messes it up, you know, and does it wrong. And then the WebEx won't start. And just think about how much wasted time there is when you're busy and you're supposed to be on this meeting at 2:00 clock and you can't get the WebEx to open. Right. So she walked through. She also went day two. Right, right along with you. So, so both of you, I think it's safe to say it won't hurt your feelings, but it's a little bit of a train wreck right there on day two. I mean, they, they kind of got it eventually, right. You, you worked your way through it, but it wasn't exactly smooth. Right. And you're both extremely sharp. Yeah. You know, young ladies who really knew their, their, their jobs. But I really liked what Roger said after that day was that, you know, these four steps alone aren't sufficient. The blue card alone isn't sufficient. Right. And so that didn't set us up then for really getting into the job breakdown process, which you've kind of covered. So let's talk a little bit about as the week went on, like maybe like day three, kind of towards the end of day three, early part of day four, what did you start to notice about the group?

So it was really interesting is that first of all, I noticed that when we worked together on a job breakdown, we were able to basically build a more effective job breakdown. So an individual. So let's say use Kate. Right. So Kate did this job breakdown on inputting foam hearing protection. And she did her first demonstration and it was great. She did this great, wonderful job. I was like, wow, that was, that was really awesome. And then we said, okay, well, let's, let's go through the job breakdown together. And when we did it together and use that methodology of, okay, now what did you just do? Yeah, now did that move the job forward? And going through that process, we actually ended up with some different steps that were even more logical for me to follow. So, you know, I thought the first one was, hey, that's good, that makes sense. But then when we did it the second time, I was like, oh, that's even better. And so that really struck me because, you know, when I think about an organization where, you know what, people do things differently. Right. You kind of have your own little art to how you do things. And one of the things when we think about standardization is how do, how do you even get to the current best way. And it's such, you know, I know a lot of organizations, I talk to practitioners all the time who struggle with that. Same thing is whether it's within one facility or across multiple facilities is, you know, kind of everybody does it their own way. And, you know, when we come down and say, this is the. This is the way, do it. Right. I'm your lean expert, and I'm telling you, do it this way. We usually don't really get the best responses from that. But this idea of saying, okay, well, let's get in a room with a few people who do this task and let's go through a job breakdown together and have somebody demonstrate, and let's stop and let's ask, well, why do you do that? Oh, you do it differently. Well, why do you do that? We might actually learn and together come up with the best way. We know today that current best way that can then be taught consistently and can really go a long way around standardization. So I really just felt like the power of demonstrations and then the power of doing something together, even if it's just two people. Like, if I had to sit down and do a job, if I was doing a job breakdown, I would choose to call someone else and say, hey, I want you to do. Go through this with me. Even without training. I want you to ask me questions as I explained this to you.

Yeah, why'd you do that?

Yeah, exactly. Right. That's so much more powerful.

You mentioned Kate and what I really loved about her demonstration. And we did this with a few other projects or tasks, I think, but Kate in particular, I remember she trained. She trained Leslie.

Leslie, right?

Yeah. And then Leslie, who is from Gambit Academy, is like one of our sales folks who sat in on the class as a student. Right. I mean, she fully participated, but she is not. Has no manufacturing background. I don't think she's ever put hearing protection in her life. I don't think so. Right. And so but after she was trained by Kate in whatever it was, 15, 20 minutes on it kind of thing, Leslie turned around and trained another person using the exact same breakdown. That kind of blew me away in a way, because, I mean, I know it's not really super difficult task, but there's some very specific steps that we followed. And she nailed it, like, as good as Kate, who is obviously experienced at this.

Yeah, I thought that was awesome. Because, yeah, Leslie said she's like, I've never, you know, I've never worn ear protection before because she's never been in an environment where it was necessary. So it really was a new skill. This was not some mock up, you know, oh, for the sake of video or training class, let's do a simulation. This was very real. And so she had just learned how to do that task for the first time. And then within a matter of minutes, turn around and trained Gary. She used the same job breakdown that Kate used. She used the same important steps, she used the same key points, and it was the same. So again, that standardization, that consistency, you could really see, wow. If you use this JI method and it doesn't have to be everything, right? Like, I can start with one thing. I don't have to go and build a whole program. I can say, what is the next time I want to teach something or I'm going to teach something, I'm going to use it for just that. And I can just do it and build it incrementally. And if I do that and then I have, you know, then that person can train someone and then someone else can train someone and the idea that things will be so much more consistent and standardized and because you have a method to teach, right? So many times in organizations, you know, you're teaching by tribal knowledge. It's what you've learned, it's the way you were taught. It's how you've done it for 10 years and that might be different. And even if with the H taping in the box, I forgot stuff, right? I was like, oh, I forgot stuff. Until we had to, you know, put it into a job breakdown. I was like, oh. And even on my very last one, Roger's like, hey, did you, did you hear that? You added a key point there at the end? I'm like, no, what did I add? Because we make assumptions. We forget what it's like not to know.

Yeah, yeah. You know, and we mentioned it a few times, Roger, myself, throughout the week about the use of language, right? When you're doing these running, running through these breakdowns and you know, I always kept harping on use the words. The first important step, right? Like literally using that language. Um, and then I noticed as the week went on, people would start, I think it was you or Kate or somebody said, oh, okay, we have four important steps, right?

Yes.

And that was so helpful, right? You know, I don't know. I'm sure there's some brain science on why that is, but it was so helpful. It's almost like, oh, they're on step three, I'm almost done. Right? Versus, you know, if you had no idea how many there were to begin with. You're like, you start to kind of freak out, like, oh my gosh, how much I got to remember here, you know, but just that use of language was really important, I thought.

Yeah. And you know, I think so too. And I think that what was interesting and just for those of you guys who are listening, the way the class went is that as someone was doing a demonstration and was teaching using ji, those of us observing, we would try to document on a blank job breakdown what the important steps, the key points and the reasons why were. And so, I mean, I was using a pencil. I'm like, I can't do this in pen because I'm constantly erasing and rewriting and all of this stuff. And if you watch the progression from the early week to the end of the week, by the end of the week it was like, okay, there are four important steps. The first important step is, and we would have the same language early on. Somebody would do it and they would say, okay, how many important steps should you get? And somebody say, three. I got six, I got nine. We didn't even have the number of important steps right, much less what they were called. We all called them something different. By the end of it, you had the language and you. And it was consistent. The job breakdowns were pretty consistent by all the observers. And you know, I think because we got to participate in that and do that. So I would encourage, if you ever watch this or when you, you actually watch this course, do that. If you are watching a demonstration that we did get a blank job breakdown and try and follow along with us. Because by doing that I actually learned. So I could better do the demonstration myself later on.

Yeah, what other advice do you have for someone who's listening to this right now and hasn't taken the class yet, but plans to like, what do you say to that person?

So I would say first of all, don't be afraid of it. Even regardless of where you are in your journey, you can use ji. JI is relevant to anybody. And so it's worth going through for sure. Even if you don't do a massive enterprise wide type of launch, even if all you do is change the way that you're training one on one individuals that you teach tasks to. So don't be afraid and definitely understand that it's applicable pretty much anywhere. The second is, I would say to really make sure that you kind of follow the plan. I know you guys are going to give a few options, but. But the course is designed to be done over the course of five days, really. Right. So a couple of hours, about two hours each day for five days. And I think that that's really valuable. I'm the type where I would say, oh, whatever, I'm just going to get it all done in two days. I'm going to do two five hour days. I don't need this. But I do think that having a little bit each day, it does help with your learning, or at least it certainly helped with mine. To be able to walk away from it and then come back the next day and try again. I think it was a better learning experience. And then I would say do a demonstration, find tasks that you can practice along with us. And you're going to see, I'm pretty sure that you're going to include some of those early examples where they're not perfect. Right. You're going to get to see us train wreck it. So don't feel bad about whatever you do because you're going to get to see us do, to have, have these train wrecks and not. And even, you know, towards the end where we're like, oh, I missed, I forgot to tell you the reason why on that one. So we weren't perfect in anything. And so you're not gonna be perfect either. And that's okay. But practice it. Get someone else. I would say if you can at least have three people that way one person can be the instructor, one person can be the learner, and one person can be an observer to give feedback. So I think at least three people. But you could, you could also do a class. If you wanted to bring a class of 12 people in, you could do it. Yeah, but watch the studio. That gives you the education, the background, the kind of the concepts. And then you get to watch the classroom videos with the demonstrations and hear some of the back and forth that we had and some of the learnings we had. And then you guys take turns and practice and give each other feedback because that's really, I think, going to be the biggest impact. Because I could have told you on day two, oh, I can make a job breakdown for him. And then by day five, I was like, oh yeah, on day two, I couldn't really do. Wasn't really the right important steps and the right key points.

Yeah, yeah. You know, we're putting the final touches on now. The guys are actually editing right beside me as I, as I talk to you. And I have a couple thoughts in my mind about how the course will be used. Like for sure, all the studio videos will be Used by. By everyone. But like I imagine, let's say a Jamie Parker is going to actually facilitate your own class. You're going to bring 10 people together for five days, couple hours each day. You may not show them all the learners, if you will, your videos of you train wrecking because you want them to train wreck. Right. So those classroom videos also could be used as more of a facilitator's guide. Like, hey, Mr. Or Mrs. Facilitator, you're got 10 people turning up for day one tomorrow. Well, go and watch these day one videos so you can see how this class went. To give you a better idea, because not everyone's going to have, you know, Roger Bielas there with them. Right. To kind of guide them through, but you can watch an expert kind of facilitate this class. So that's what I'm really excited about. I think my original thought with that classroom footage was, oh, it'll be a nice compliment, you know, to the live studio stuff. But now my mind is totally changed that I think they're equally important. I don't think one's more important than the other. I think they're equally important, but maybe for slightly different reasons. Right. Like one more as a facilitator, like, you can do this, just watch this and kind of follow that recipe. But then the studio videos will be for anybody.

Yeah. And I think, I mean, I think that's perfect because it gives so much flexibility. You know, if you have an opportunity to facilitate and you've got some facilitation skills and you really use that, the course as your train, the trainer, facilitator, background to help you do this, I think that there's enough where you could then go and facilitate. I would feel comfortable now going to facilitate my own class. And if you're in a situation where you're like, hey, you know what, this isn't even. Maybe this is just kind of a small group or we're kind of doing this on our own. We don't really feel like we have the confidence to facilitate. Then that's fine. The three of you sit together and go through the videos. It'll just be. It'll be like you're in class with Roger. It'll work for that as well. And so it just really gives a lot of flexibility.

Yep, yep. Oh, yeah. So, so excited to get this course out. I. We've got so many people emailing, when is it coming? When's it coming? So the guys are working hard on it, so we'll hopefully have it out Here within by the end of February is kind of our goal. You know, fail safe would be early March, but I think. I think we're in good shape for end of February, so. Well, Jamie, as you know, we're gonna kind of phase two of our TWI journey is going to be JR job relations. So that's going to be coming later this year. So our hope, not to put any pressure on your classmates, but our hope is to get the band back together. Right. All 10 people, including our friend who we lost to the flu. Was it, you know.

Yes.

We'll even invite. It was Dan. Right?

Dan.

Yeah, Dan back. So get all 10 people back who have hopefully been doing great things with J.I. and then we'll learn J.R. together in the same forum, same style.

I'm so looking forward to it.

Yeah.

Very good.

All right. Well, jb, as always, it's awesome to work with you and to know you. So thank you for everything that you do and can't wait to hear about all of the JI success that I know you're going to have. We're going to, as you know, we're going to have kind of a, I think we agree, like every other month, kind of do like a Little webinar with 10 students just to stay in touch and see how everybody's getting along and supporting each other. Right. Because there'll be bumps along the way, but I think if we all hang in together, it's going to be pretty successful.

Yeah, absolutely.

All right, well, I'm sure we'll talk soon. And everyone, thanks for listening. And look for some videos of Jamie H. Taping a box.

Thanks for listening to the Gemba Academy podcast. Now it's time to take a free, no strings attached, fully functional test drive of Gemba Academy's School of Lean and Six Sigma. Over at GembaCademy.com gain immediate access to more than 500 Lean and Six Sigma training videos free of charge at GembaAcademy.com Sam.