GA 217 | How Gemba Academy Practices Lean with Leslie Moles and Jennifer Scott

As humans, I think we just want to kind of take the easy way out and not think about it. But you do have to figure out, what is it that we learned from this? And we have learned so much through the Cotter process, even back when we started and we created all of those charts that were probably unnecessary. We really learned from those.

Over the years, I've interviewed hundreds of people order to learn more about how different companies went about their lean journey. And while we've shared a few stories about how genba Academy practices lean in our company, we've never really dedicated an entire episode to the topic. That's why I'm so excited to introduce you to two of my favorite human beings alive today, Leslie Moles and Jennifer Scott. As you'll hear, Leslie and Jennifer manage the sales side of Gemba Academy's business. And as it turns out, the they've really done a great job practicing lean over the years. Specifically, Jennifer and Leslie have done a great job embracing the routines of Toyota Kata, which is what we focus most of our discussion on today. Now, show notes for this episode, which will include links to everything we discuss, can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 2, 1, 7. You can also check out Gemba Academy's Lean learning system over@gembaacademy.com with a fully functional trial. And the best part, if you do call for that fully functional trial, chances are you'll end up talking to either Leslie or Jennifer. All right, let's get to the show. Jennifer and Leslie, welcome to the show. How's it going, ladies?

Thank you.

Good.

Great.

Yeah. Thanks, Ron.

You guys sound a little bit more nervous than normal. Is that why? Could that be?

This is not our normal job.

Yeah. Big confident salespeople over here. He can't even get on a little podcast and talk.

You know, we listen to the podcast.

We listen to them.

We're not on them. Hey.

Yeah. Apparently you even cry during the podcast a little bit, Jennifer, don't you?

From time to time on occasion. You have some really good speakers and. Yeah, I'm a little emotional sometimes.

Yeah. What was that? Richard Sheridan, right? The last one. It was.

Yeah, yeah, it was. He was talking about his employees and how they kind of brought him back down to Earth and just. It was really good.

It was good. Well, I'm sorry for making you cry.

But all good, all good. It shows how good of a storyteller he is, and you brought that out of him.

So he's pretty awesome. He's pretty awesome. All right. Well, ladies, let's kind of just begin at the beginning. And I want both of you to take a turn here. Tell us about what you do for Gameback Academy and how long you've been working for the company.

All right, well, I'll go first. This is Leslie Moles. And when I started with the company, I started out in more of an administrative position. And then Ron one day decided to throw me on the phones. He's like, hey, you got a great phone place. Come on over here and make some phone calls.

And I was like, what?

So. So I've been with the company about four and a half years and been doing sales for probably about three and a half of those years and just been growing with the company and it's very exciting.

Yeah. Yep. Good. And Jennifer?

Yeah.

So I do business development here at Gemba Academy. Gosh, it's been a little over three years. I remember my first day, we were taking our first team meeting for the year in February and it was Palm Springs. So I was like, this is good. This is a good way to start. But no, I was really excited because it was a little bit something different. I'd been in sales for 15 years and when I joined you guys, it was a completely different role. There was a lot of automation, There was a lot of autonomy. There was a lot of. I was able to kind of make decisions for myself, which I wasn't able to do before. And so it was kind of neat to step into and scary at the same time. But talking about where we've been and where we are now and where we're going, it's just. It's pretty exciting.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember that trip, Jennifer. And I think you, if I remember right, since you were the new person, we stuck you in the way back of this little minivan thing or whatever and you had to hold up suitcases, didn't you?

I did. I did. I took one for the team. Apparently I was the newest member. So that was an interesting two hour car ride. But I'm no longer the last one, so there are others we need to initiate.

Yeah. You know, I also remember I can't. I cannot be a passenger for that long. I have to drive, otherwise I was going to be throwing up. Problem is, it was at night and I was tired and it was like dark on these crazy roads and I could barely see because you guys didn't really know that. So our life was really in neighbor that night.

I knew all along. I just had to hold on for dear life suitcases. So it's fun to laugh about it now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, well, listen, ladies, what I wanted to do today was we're going to explore how we use Lean at Gemba Academy to kind of improve our processes. And in particular, I want to focus in on how we've been using Toyota Kata. But before then, I want both of you, if you have one, maybe to share a quote, something that possibly inspires you. So, Leslie, do you want to go first?

Sure. Yes. So my favorite quote is actually an old proverb and it says, fall down seven times and stand up eight. Basically, it's very relevant in the sales world. I mean, you get told no quite a bit. So you just have to keep getting up and in life in general, you know, you get knocked down quite often, but you just have to learn how to get back up and keep chugging along.

Yeah, yeah. Love it, Jennifer.

Yeah, that's good. I have a lot of quotes, but the one I wanted to share today is one that I have on my wall here in my home office. It's strive for progress, not perfection. And I think it's a really good quote for whatever you're doing. Right. It's relevant in the Lean world, it's relevant at home, it's relevant while you're talking to your kids. I think that we sometimes have to not think that things can happen overnight and expect perfect perfection, but we have to take little baby steps to get there. And so, yeah, that's a quote that has been very helpful in my career and life in general.

Yeah, great, great, great. All right, well, let's jump in a little bit about this continuous improvement at Gemba Academy. We're going to focus in on our, spend most of our time talking about how we kind of use a scientific, you know, thinking process of Toyota Kata to kind of move, move forward. But, but we're doing lots of other things here at the company. So why don't you guys talk just a little bit about some of the other things outside of Kata that, that you, that you're involved, that I know there's like a continuous improvement call. You know, we do morning stand up meetings, like give everyone a feel for how we, how we operate.

Yeah.

So every morning at 10:30 Central Time, we all get together and we have a stand up meeting. Usually we're kind of spread out. We have a virtual team, so we use Google Hangouts and that way we get to see each other, which is very, very nice when you're kind of spread out and just talk about what's been going on Each team has a different day as well. So not only do we kind of talk about what's going on for individual purposes, but also each, like, it will have a day where they'll kind of show us what's been going on with website functionality or website visit, how many people have been on the site, that sort of thing. So each department also has a day. So it's really good to be able to see especially the big picture of what's going on in the organization. That's one of the things that we do.

Jennifer, you want to talk about that CI call that you guys do?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So another thing we do here at Gemba Academy is some of the members from the different departments, we get together once a week, and we call it the continuous improvement call. It's not meant just for Salesforce, but we do talk about our CRM and how we can better that. But it usually involves everybody because everybody has a piece in it. So we really just kind of. We work off of a Trello board, since we are, like Leslie said, virtual. That kind of keeps us organized to talk about what we need to improve on. If something that's bugging us that we really want to just jot it down. We talk about it on that call, and we've had, I can't even tell you, close to 100, probably improvements over the last year and a half. And they could be small things, they could be projects. But what's nice about it is we all have a little bit of input and we all can kind of see things happen. And, you know, because we are a small organization, we are able to make those changes pretty rapidly. So we're not waiting for months and weeks and, you know, for time to pass on, for us to forget. It's done pretty quickly, like within weeks, a week, or even same day, sometimes same call. So. But, yeah, always really trying to improve what we're doing. Right. We can continue doing what we're doing. Like I said, if it's bugging us or if we want to see it a different way, we talk about it, and it's good to see those changes.

Yeah. And Tony, our IT director, he's on those calls, and a lot of times he's making changes right there on the fly. Right.

Right there. Yeah. It's pretty nice.

As soon as we say it, he's like, oh, Barty fixed it.

He's great.

Yeah. Now, you both have been mentioning about Virtual Team this and that. You do know that we have an office here in Keller, Texas, that you both are welcome to come to.

We come in there.

We come in there every week. At least.

At least on Thursday for your free lunch, right?

Oh, I don't pass up a free lunch.

No, it's all good, Leslie.

You always get to choose it, right?

Hey, you know, they give the power to me. I gotta take it and run with it.

All right, well, hey, so let's zoom in a little bit on our journey with kata in particular. You know, the three of us have been working really closely together on improving the way things are going around here, especially, you know, within the sales organization, business development organization. And what I want to do is kind of begin at the beginning. If you can go back to that, you know, remember the first coaching session we had over here? It's on the studio side of our office here, and we were at the big whiteboard, and we had driven written a bunch of stuff up there and million charts and this and that. But I don't want to talk about the charts and the words on the board. I want to talk about what were you guys thinking? And I know, you know, whatever, I'm the coach and this and that. But really, what were you thinking? What were you feeling?

I'll go first. Since Leslie's been going first. We were a little overwhelmed. I think, at the beginning. We knew that we were going to start this product, so we had to learn about it. And we thought that the best way to do it was to jump right in. But when we did that, we were really overwhelmed. I mean, at the time, there was just so much going on. At the time, I was handling all of the enterprise and global accounts. Leslie was handling our certification program and our individual locations. And we were just. There was too much going on. And we thought, this is just another thing that we're going to have to deal with. And we didn't understand it enough. We were still learning, we were still reading. You were still working on the course. And we talked target condition, and we need to figure out what our actual state is. We were just not 100% sure that we had time for it. We gave it our all. We came up with all those things, like you said, all the charts to try to figure out what our current condition was. We at the time didn't really know what problems we were having. We knew that we were struggling, but we didn't know specifically what the problems were. And I think that was kind of eye opening. So we just kind of threw stuff on that board and created charts and thought we knew what we were doing. Right, Leslie? I mean, it was Just. It was overwhelming at the time. Exactly.

And just based on all of our charts and everything, we selected a target condition, and we were going after it. And. And after a while, Ron came to us and he was like, I don't know if this target condition. Do you really feel like this should be your target condition? And I'm not trying to change it or anything. And we were like, well, I don't know. I don't know if this is actually getting us to our big challenge. I mean, we recognized that, and we had to step back and say, okay, we need to really look at this challenge and see if our target condition is actually getting us there, and it's not. So we had to dial it back and figure out what a good target condition that was related to that big challenge should be.

What was that? Do you remember what the. I remember the original target condition. What was it? Do you remember?

It was. It had to do with opportunities. It was converting leads to opportunities. And it's very easy to convert a lead to an opportunity, but it's all based on feeling, you know, do we feel like it's really an opportunity? Is this lead really going to go anywhere? Well, we don't know for sure. So you can kind of manipulate that if you need to, you know, oh, well, we need to convert 20 leads. Well, this one sounds pretty good. So we'll go ahead and convert it, you know, and may not be as accurate as you need it to be, because even if you convert it to an opportunity, it still may not become a sale. So that's why it can kind of be skewed in a way.

Yeah, I remember that, too. And it was a question you asked Ron that kind of set us back. You said, okay, what if it didn't matter if you, like, close lost an opportunity or closed won, but you just. If you felt like you had a really good conversation and customers were really engaged and interested, you went ahead and converted it. What if it didn't matter what our close rate was? And we kind of stepped back? We were like, well, we don't want to close lost an opportunity because that makes us look bad as sales reps. And I think that's kind of when the light bulbs started to go off. You were also taken back, like, oh, okay. So that got our wheels thinking, and we realized that we really weren't getting closer to our challenge by closing an opportunity two days faster. That wasn't the problem or the challenge or target. That was obviously something there, but that wasn't what we needed to focus on. And so that's kind of the turning point of that question you asked. Kind of took us by. Okay, so if we don't have to worry about our partners getting disappointed or frustrated or upset that we closed, lost an opportunity, then we could be free with converting them. And that conversion rate wasn't what we needed to track.

Yeah, yeah, I remember. Yeah, I remember. It took me back. It caught me by surprise. And it was, you know, that obviously you both wanted to do a great job for the company and you felt pressure to have a particular. You might even call vanity metric. You know, some people might call it a vanity metric, you know, look good, when in fact we could care less. Right. About, you know, how good that particular metric looked. It didn't matter to us, you know, and. And, you know, so I think it was a. That's what I love about this whole process is that, yeah, sure, it's, you know, it moves us closer to this challenge and we can get better. And now we're got it pretty dialed in as far as running experiments and whatnot. But early on, there was fear that needed to be overcome. Right. And we have a pretty trusting organization, I think. You know, but at the same time, you guys were scared and you didn't want to let people down, and it was inhibiting your performance. Right?

Sure. Absolutely.

Exactly.

Yeah. So. All right, well, so we adjusted. You know, at that point, you guys did. You came up with a different target condition. I can't even remember what that was. That one was back then. But what I want to do now is talk a little bit about maybe kind of some of the recent activity. You know, and I'm not asking you. Not asking you to read off your storyboard or anything, but we can just kind of. You can summarize, which, by the way, it's kind of cool from a. For folks who do have a. You know, folks that don't always work together, or maybe there's different facilities that you work in. You guys use like Google Drive and Google spreadsheets to. To kind of capture your storyboards, and that way we can all share that. So I think that's a pretty cool little tip for folks that may not work in the same facility. Right. That you guys can do that. So that's great. But talk a little bit about maybe one of the. Doesn't have to be the current one you're working on, but something that you've. Last month or so that you've worked on as far as, like a target condition, or maybe it was even just a next step. Or an experiment just to give people a flavor for what you guys are doing.

Okay, well, I can talk about our most recent experiment that we've done. One thing that Ron mentioned to us one day was that he had written kind of a story about his ideal day or wrote down just some different ideas on what his ideal day this is before he started Gemba Academy. And he was thinking about it and he's like, what do I want my ideal day to be like? And it really gets you into that mentality of how you want your life to be. Six months or a year, two years.

Or five years, however long down the.

Road, and gives you that feeling. And they say that feeling, you know, it's kind of like the secret. If you get into that mindset, it really builds character and helps you to identify how to get there in different ways. So that's one of the things that we've been working on, is writing out what our ideal day would look like maybe in December of 2018. Like, how are we working? What's going on? Is the phone ringing off the wall? What are the different things that we're doing? How are we working? Are we using lead or standard work? Just different things. Like that is what we've been working on. So that's been our experiment this time, this particular time is what we've been working on.

And I haven't even heard your ideal days yet. I can't wait to hear that. But I think one of the reasons we did that was we talk a lot about this challenge, like this thing. But what we've been kind of going back and forth on is, yeah, it's easy. Let's say in sales, it's a number that you're going after, maybe, you know, whatever that might be. Well, that's the score. Right? That's the score. That's easy to determine. Are you there or not? Right. But what we also want to know is not just the score of the game, but how are we playing the game. Right. You know, because you could potentially get that number and be miserable, you know, and have a terrible process and be working, you know, 23 hours a day or whatever it might be. Right. That's obviously not serving the, the long term success of our organization or you as individuals. Right. So, yeah, I think that's something that a lot of folks could think about on that challenge is what's that ideal situation? Or jumping at the time machine. Right. And all right, you've done it, you've made your number, whatever it might be, sales or on time, delivery or quality or whatever it might be. But how are you working? That's just as important as the number. Perhaps even more important, I think so. Jennifer, any thoughts on some other things that we've worked on?

Yeah, I know earlier on, maybe mid to late last year, we uncovered that we really wanted to reach more customers and truly understand their journey. We created experiments and leader standard work and things like that and kind of changed what we were doing. We weren't trying to sell a product. We were really trying to understand a customer and what they were going with and kind of taking them through the KATA process without calling it kata. We're asking them, where are you at today? And where do you want to be a year from now? If you had the best solution in the world, what would that look like? That helped us understand what some of their issues were or challenges were, and that way we could, in turn, try to help them. So those were some obstacles that. Those were some experiments. I'm sorry, not obstacles. Those are some experiments that we tried to see. And we found that that experiment worked really well. You know, writing, changing our script where we weren't trying to sell them. We were really just trying to understand their journey and find a solution that met their needs.

Yeah, Yeah. I also, like, I know you're not 100% done with it, but working with customer success on transitioning some stuff. Right. Some things that you guys used to do after the sale. Talk about that a little bit.

Yeah. So it's in the process, we've already transitioned part of it, so we have annual subscriptions, and then we also have certifications. But sales, for as long as I've been with Gemba Academy has always set up our customers once they decide that they're ready to start and become a customer of Gemba Academy. We set them up in the system, we get all of the notes put into the. To the CRM system, and then we turn them over to customer success. And what we were finding was there was sort of a disconnect, and we really wanted to engage customer success earlier on in the sales journey so that customer success could, in fact, really help the customer on their journey. Rather than we close the cell, we find out all the information and turn it over. So it's actually created a little bit more. I wouldn't say free time, but time available for sales to work with new prospects and helping them uncover their challenges. So we have turned it over to part of the setup and all of that over to customer success so they can begin that journey. It sort of starts there Rather than ends with us.

Well, it saves you guys a tremendous amount of time. You guys figure it out. In fact, I can't remember the exact numbers, but like in one month, how, how many you spent? Many, many hours. Didn't you like doing some of this post sale work?

Yeah, yeah. I want to say it was like 12 hours setting up customers and like 7 hours with our certification candidate.

Yeah.

So it was a lot of time that we were spending setting up customers in the system.

Yeah. But it's also a win win because for those that don't know, our customer success team is when you do become a customer, then they get involved to make sure that, that you're successful. Right. Because if you're not successful, why would you want to keep using Gemba Academy? So that's what I think. It's a win win because it's helping customer success do their job better, I believe.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

And it's also, you know, we created standard work through the process in transitioning it over to customer success. So it was a very clear, descriptive way of how to enter it. Having the standard work set up actually save some of their time as well. So it saved us time on the administrative part. And then it also saved time by having that standard work created.

Wait, you're trying to say there wasn't always standard work? You guys didn't follow that?

You know what's funny about that, Ron? We did create standard work, but what we didn't do recently is we used a lot of memory. We've done it for so long. When we went back to look at it, the one thing we didn't do is we didn't correct it as things changed as they went along. And it's much easier to do it while you're making the change rather than, you know, two years later going back and saying, we don't even do this process or this step anymore. So yeah, it's, you gotta, you gotta make those changes along the way for sure.

Yep. Yep. Hey, so one of the coaching kata questions that you've heard me ask you guys a million times is, you know, after you run an experiment or some next step, you tell us what actually happened, you know, and you explain what actually happened. And then I ask you, what did you learn? What do you guys think of this question? What did you learn?

That's usually our hardest question because you just have to really go back and think about it. And that's what is, I think, difficult with kata is you really have to use your brain sometimes and think about, think through things. And as humans, I don't. I think we just want to kind of take the easy way out and not think about it.

But.

But you do have to figure out what is it that we learned from this? And we have learned so much through the Cotta process, even back when we started and we created all of those charts that were probably unnecessary. We really learned from those looking back. So absolutely, that is our hardest, toughest question.

I think for me too, that it, it tends to drive our next experiment. So we figure out what went wrong or what went right. And then unless we have completely checked up all the obstacles for that particular target condition, it usually drives our next experiment. And I think that's most important for us. It may take us a little bit of time. In the beginning, I think you would ask, okay, so what happened? And you know, what did you expect? And then the last one was, what did you learn? But in the what did you expect? Part, for a while we kept, you know, we were either not putting in the right information, so it took us a little bit of time to get that on, but we would always put what we learned. We would always put what happened, you know, in the what happened column. So it took us a little bit of time to get that, get those two corrected. Okay, here's exactly what happened. We did this, this, and this, this. And then what did we learn? This is what we did.

Y. Exactly. So you both talked to. To folks all over the world in just about any industry you can imagine, you know, manufacturing, health care, service, you know, military, everything, government. How do you address the question? Or in sales talk? I guess it would be the, the objection, you know, to, hey, I work in an office. We don't make. Make cars here, you know, or we don't manufacture a widget. So does Lean apply to me? You know, they're asking you like, how do you, how do you address that?

Right? Well, normally I let them know that you can use Lean anywhere. Of course you can use Lean at home in your garage. You can 5s. I mean, I've had to do that many, many times, you know, and I mean, it's, it's any industry. And we try to keep our content very agnostic, very, you know, any industry could use. And here we are in sales using kata. So it's proof that, you know, that any, you can use it anywhere in your organization. It doesn't have to be in manufacturing, you know, so there are many, many examples in other industries that we could show you even from our videos.

Hey, have either of you Practice kind of, you know, the. And I truly don't know the answer to this, and maybe it's no, which is fine. Have you practiced, like, this whole kind of scientific thinking kata process outside of work? I don't know, with your kids or anything like that?

I have, yeah. I have officially done this with my friends. I've done it with our coworkers, even at Gemba Academy before they jumped on board. I've done it with my kids, two of my four children. I have done the kata experiment, the CADA process, the whole current state, future state, obstacles in the way. I may not call it kata. I don't explain it to them as kata, but I do. It's that thinking that's in my head. And, you know, I'm not a coach or anything like that, but I just know that it works. I've seen it work in our own organization. And sometimes when my kids are frustrated or they don't know, I help them figure out what they don't know.

Can you give an example? I don't want to put you on the spot, you know, share any personal family stuff or anything like that here on a podcast.

No, no. I mean, I'll talk about my daughter. That was one. So she graduated December 2016 from college, and she's a dance major. So she had to go on a lot of these auditions and try out, and she was struggling. She was really struggling because that's the. You know, in that industry, you hear no a lot, you know, yes. You're not the right person. You're not the right. And so she was really struggling, and she was feeling like she wasn't in the, you know, in the position. Was she ready to be a dancer? Did they not want her? And so I, you know, we went through the process, and I said, you know, what do you feel today? Write all the things that you feel today. Okay. So she did all of that. And I said, where do you want to be a year from now? She's like, I want to be, you know, dancing in Disney or, you know, Rockette. I want to be on a cruise ship. I just want to perform. I said, what's keeping you from doing that? I don't know. Nobody wants me. You know, just the feeling. Sorry for yourself. Because when you hear no so many times, you kind of feel defeated. You feel like, am I in this? Am I doing the right thing? So we really helped her write down her obstacles. And it was things like, I don't practice yoga. I'm not limber. I'm not talking to people. But her list was probably 10 to 15 things long that those are the things that were preventing her from getting them. So she had to really step outside of her comfort zone. She didn't know this was Kata. We didn't talk about it. Kata. It was just the process. And things started to change after that. She started making goals. Okay, this week, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do yoga three times a week. You know, she taught dance too, so she would do it with her kids. And so to make a long story short, she started to knock those things off of her list. And, you know, here we are. She's getting ready to perform. So she is. She's gonna be dancing at Six Flags over Texas and Arlington. So she landed. And even before she got that, she was making it through, you know, her auditions and not getting cut. Now, whether they call you back, you know, they'll call you back, and sometimes they'll catch you right on. But she was feeling like that process that we went through really helped her kind of navigate and, you know, get rid of some of the challenges that she was. She was experiencing just by having them written and seeing, you know, what can I focus on taking? And so I know that the process works. It works at home. We did some with some colleagues. I was out with friends the other day. We talked about their children and some things they were experiencing. And I said, where do you want to be? So that question, where do you want to be? It's almost like that's your goal. That's your challenge. That's where you want to be. So we got to take baby steps to get there. So it's rewarding to see it work. It really is. Outside of work and inside of work.

Yeah, I love it. All right.

Yeah.

Well, ladies, let's go ahead and transition to the reflection session. I just got a couple questions for you, and you can both answer them or one of you can answer them however you want to do it. What's the funniest, maybe even embarrassing story about me or anyone at Gemba Academy you can think of?

Man, We could definitely talk about Ron's.

Ron's self space.

How I train everyone. That's new.

Oh, yes, yes, yes. We can talk about that a little bit. So Ron, he loved highrise, and that's what we used before we had Salesforce, and that's where we used to keep records of all of our conversations with our potential customers and even our current customers. And it was just kind of a simple way to track things. And then we got Salesforce. And once we got Salesforce, there was a little resistance from Ron. It was something new to learn. And believe it or not, we still get a little bit of resistance, but he's kind of starting to come around and put notes in there. But, um, yes, yes, with. With Salesforce, definitely. Definitely a tough thing for.

Yeah, I remember Ron.

I remember several times where customer called me or whatever, and I'm talking to him, like, writing a little note on a piece of paper, and I walk over and hand it to Leslie, say, hey, can you put this in Salesforce? You know, hey, I love. We love Salesforce here, though. We're not knocking on Salesforce. It's changed. Changed our company for the better.

That was just last week.

You brought me that note.

No, I log my calls now. Thank you very much.

Yes, you do.

You're doing much better.

I mean, I will have to say that, like, what, three years and three months I've been here, and like, in the last probably two years, we've done a lot better. But we used to get emails on Sunday from Kevin and Ron and say, we're okay, guys. We're gonna try something new. Everybody buckle in and get ready. And we would just be, like, confused and scared and not sure. So it's nice that we're using our own Lean processes and tools and kata to not jump to countermeasures and really figure out before we start changing everything and how we do things, that we really get the team involved and we kind of put some science thinking behind it before we just go out and make changes in the company. So I will thank lean and the tools there for making sure that we're keeping you guys accountable too, for not making changes, drastic changes like that.

Yeah, I do remember me and Kevin were pretty guilty. I would be sitting there cutting my grass and lawnmower or whatever, and then I'd stop for water break or whatever, and I'd check my phone and Kevin send me an email, hey, what do you think about this? And then I reply, yeah, I think that would be cool. And he goes, okay, I'll make the change, and then we'll just tell everybody about it one day. Probably not the most respectful way to run a company, but, hey, we've all learned, right?

Yeah, we have.

All right, well, hey, how can people connect with you? What's the best way?

Well, I'm on LinkedIn. Leslie Moles. You can definitely connect with me there or you can send me an email. Lesleyimbaacademy.com Definitely love to hear from people.

Yep.

Yeah, me too. I'm on LinkedIn. Jennifer Scott. You can go to the gembayacademy.com website, find us on the team there. Or you can always send me an email. Jenniferambayacademy.com and always happy to connect and work with anyone.

Awesome. All right, ladies. Well, I appreciate you carving out some time and I know this wasn't in your leader standard work for today, so I appreciate you being flexible, but I really wanted to have you both on and kind of share the story that, you know, we don't have it all figured out, but we're trying.

Yeah, for sure. We are.

Definitely. Thank you so much for having us.

All right, you're welcome.

Thanks, Ron.

All right.

All right, get back to you later.

Get back to work.

Bye.

Bye.

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