GA 299 | Lean and Strategy in the U.S. Air Force with Reza Zeinalpour

Hey, everyone, this is Ron Pereira. Before we get started with the show, I wanted to wish everyone that celebrates the holiday a very merry Christmas. And if you're listening to this while driving to grandma's house, be safe. Okay, well, today I'm excited to welcome Reza Zanopour to the show as we work our way through the AME series of interviews we did a few weeks ago. Now, as you'll hear, Reza serves the United States as part of the Air Force. So during the show we talk about how the Air Force is leveraging continuous improvement to make things better. Now, I also want to make a special shout out to all of those who are serving our country away from home during this holiday. Thank you for your selfless service. I know I speak for everyone listening. We're so blessed to have men and women like you protecting our freedom. Now, show notes for this episode, which will include links to everything we talk about, can be found over@gempapodcast.com just look for episode 299. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show.

Reza, welcome to the show. How are you?

I'm great. Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, so I guess we. I blew it last year. Just being full disclosure, you know, we talked about you coming onto the show in the last ame and I blew it and it never happened. So thank you for persevering and reminding me and I'm so honored to have you. You on and. Yeah, so tell us what you do, Reza, so I can.

All right, so I am a process manager for the Air Force. I currently work out of Tinker Air Force Base and that's in Oklahoma.

Yeah.

So it's a, it's a really exciting job and a lot of opportunity to make things better in the Air Force.

Well, thank you for your service.

Thank you very much.

How long you been in?

I've been in 17 and a half years. Okay.

How many times you been deployed?

So I've only been deployed about four times.

Only four times?

Well, that's not necessarily a lot in, in our world, but I always try to get on as many things as I can though. I always find it a real pleasure to go on those things because you can just accomplish the time kind of thing. Yeah, four to six months.

Where have you been?

I've been to Diego Garcia. It's a little island on the. In the middle of the Indian Ocean.

Okay.

So you go to the tip of India and go down to the equator.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

They have a nice little nine hole golf course there too. Okay. Okay. But it was a lot of fun. Al Dhofra was the most recent one that I went to in uae. It's a. It's a hot. It is hot. But I went. I happened to go in the winter months.

Okay.

So it wasn't. It wasn't that hot.

Okay.

For me.

Okay.

But it's good. Good, good.

Yeah. My brother in law, he's in the. He was at Tinker for a while. He's in the Air Force.

He's a.

In the military police. Yeah. So he's been deployed a bunch of times.

Boy.

Yeah. So, yeah. Well, hey, thanks for coming on, man. I'm really excited to talk to you. We've known each other for a while and he's kind of interacting back and forth, so it's fun to finally get you on. So you know the drill. We like to kind of begin all of our shows with a quote. So do you have one?

Absolutely, I do. So my quote is the Shingo quote. It's. It's obviously been on your show quite a lot, but it really resonates with me a lot. The Shingo quote is there are four purposes of improvement. Easier, better, faster, and cheaper. And these four goals appear in the order of priority.

How does that relate to the work you guys are trying to do in the Air Force?

So as I'm trying to really get a lean culture in the Air Force, I really think that speaks to what lean is and what we should be going after. And by doing it this way, we really engage our people to say, hey, it's not about the bottom line. It's not about, you know, always. Well, I mean, we're trying to make the mission happen, obviously, but it'll happen through making people's lives easier and better. If we don't do that, then we're just working or getting all the work accomplished off the back of our airmen.

Yeah.

And that's not what the goal is. The goal is to make them want to be a part of something more than just coming to work and doing what they're supposed to do and then going home.

Yeah.

That doesn't leave a lot of sense of purpose. And I think this really gets after that entire piece.

Yeah. So talk about your background, Reza, and kind of how you got into this whole continuous improvement space.

All right. Well, so by trade, I originally, I am a guidance and control craftsman, so I fix planes.

Okay.

And I do things like autopilot indications and things of that nature. So that. That's where what I started doing.

Okay.

About four and a half Years ago, I got this opportunity to do lean and I was like, okay, what's that? And not. No, not really. I mean, there, there are things in the Air Force, they called them Apsar 21 at the time. And it's like, you know, they had campaigns like, are you doing something stupid? You know, let us know. And. Because they wanted to not do stupid things. So I didn't really know what it was. And they got an opportunity to go to Greenbelt class. And I was like, all right, you know, I'll go, I'll learn. And I go to this class and I, and my, I come out, my eyes are open. I'm like, we can map everything. We are gonna, we're gonna prove everybody wrong. Everything is gonna just get better here on out. They can't, they can't disprove me. You know, I was like, it's gonna, it's gonna happen. I just, I just need to, I just need to map it. That's how I was like, I. Tools.

Yeah.

And I was ready to go, but it was just tools at that point.

Yeah.

So, so we, we got started though, and it was kind of maybe a fire. That was really the drive to get lean started within our organization. We had an aircraft wash issue. Basically, Wash had gone from a 12 hour thing to about two days. And wash, like aircraft wash. Washing the airplane? Yes, the AWACS aircraft. And so that was, you know, our first event, our first challenge as, as doing lean. And so you map it? Oh, yeah, we mapped it. It was awesome. We. We had, we had a. I, you know, it went around the room. We had. We, we did everything that we. I still use it in some of my training slides. Right. It's like, hey, here's our first attempt at mapping. And well, it was. Attempt. We got a lot of good results out of it. And, and it was really good though. I, I loved what I was doing. I was like, what's next? What's next? What's next? And it was, it was really awesome.

Okay, so let's talk about just the evolution, the journey, the maybe the culture side of things there. And I'm sure it's not all been easy.

Oh, no, no, no. It's not been easy because, you know, after the wash, right, we stopped really getting challenges that weren't, that weren't fires and it wasn't really doing continuous improvement. And, and whenever we weren't working, we were like, why aren't we working? We want. We love what we do. How do we get more business? Why aren't people Doing more events, more Kai events. And we came to a realization that we really had a lack of strategy that really made it down to the user level. Right. So, I mean, obviously we're trying to, as an air force, you know, have more lethality, better readiness, and more modernization. But what does that mean down at an airman level? And without the user really being able to connect with that, it wasn't going anywhere. So, so I started working with a lot of the leaders to say, hey, let's document this down. All right? What is our strategic goals? You know, the priorities and then objectives, and then we need to engage our people at that point and let them come up with what our targets are. And we started getting busy again. It did work out really, really well by getting this cascading strategy all the way down, but it did take a lot of time.

I mean, obviously you needed leadership.

Yes. Involvement there.

Right.

And, and sometimes that was a bit challenging because we want to give our people the freedom to do what's. What they want to do. Which is, which is fantastic. But if you don't have targets, which way do you go? So without knowing which way to go, maybe somebody would do an initiative and then find out it wasn't. It didn't really get after the metrics that they cared about on a regular basis. So when, when people fix things that aren't really reported, then they feel like they didn't have an impact or they went the wrong way. Yeah, and if they knew where they were going, they might have. Yes, they would have, actually. I mean, every, you know, we have 685,000 people in the Air Force. Imagine that much creativity working to solve our problems. But I mean, every organization, you know, my organization is about 4,000 people, you know, 4,000 people trying to solve a problem, which is, you know, kind of where we're at now. So that's, that's very fantastic. Right now, you know, on time takeoffs is one of our biggest things. I mean, we're doing a pretty good job, but we want to be better. And right now I have all four of our. Of our groups underneath our wing working towards the same goal. And it's fantastic.

What kind of, how do you guys use visual management and things like that to track key performance indicators or things like that?

So they do have our normal weekly meetings, and a lot of the key performance indicators are tracked that way. But whenever we're setting up different targets, like for instance, our wing light event that we're doing right now, we establish the KPI for on time to first activity. Because if we're accomplishing that, well, guess what? That means we fly less. Right. So if we miss an activity, that means our people don't get the training, which means we have to re accomplish all that work again. So imagine defect and then, oh well, I just got to re accomplish all that work so we can get that training eventually.

Yeah.

So if by improving those numbers means everybody works less and people get more opportunity and that's just more responsibility of taxpayer dollars too.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So talk a little bit about, you know, even here at the conference, you know, we're talking about, you're hearing innovation quite a bit. And I understand you guys have even kind of changed your, the name of your initiative or your program from CPI to CPI squared, is that right?

Yeah, that's right. So cpi, Continuous Process Improvement is what we call it in the Air Force. We're kind of evolving that into CPI Squared, which is Continuous Process improvement and innovation. And it's, it's really a great way to get people an opportunity to innovate for whatever they deem necessary towards their processes. Right. And a lot of people think process improvement though can sometimes be constraining. And what I mean by that is, oh, well, you want to solve a problem, so that means I got to get data. Well, I don't have that data already. It's going to take time and all those kind of things. And what? Well, we need that. Right. That's how you make good data driven decisions. I don't necessarily want to stop people from innovating because that really drains their morale. It doesn't make them want to try again in the future. So by allowing them to innovate and then engaging with us afterwards, especially if the risk is low and it doesn't take away from their primary duties, they can come up with their proof of concept of whatever it is they want to do and then engage cpi, you know, someone like me, and we will help them kind of make the business case that says this goes after the strategy or not. Because a lot of what the Air Force is going after is scalability. So if you have something you can implement, how can we get that across the entire Air Force? So it's a really great initiative that it's actually come down from the top of the Air Force. Yeah, that, that they want to make innovation a big part of it. And they, they did make that portal. Right. The, the Air Force CPI portal idea scale is what they call it, sorry, ideascale. And anybody can go on there and put their idea and as soon as their idea is put in, somebody like me will get an email if it's in our area, and we will go help that person really develop their idea. Who to put, who to make the pitch to, how to make the pitch better, all of those kind of things to get people to implement and scale at a.

How do you vet the idea though? Because obviously not all ideas are going to be well.

So it's. We just help them make the pitch. The decision maker still has to make the decision. So it's, it really does work pretty well as long as, you know, it gets after the business case. So is the cost worth it? The ROI there, solving a problem?

Right.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So talk a little bit about.

You were talking before we hit record, the Spark cell.

What's that all about?

So a spark cell is. And that's the generic name the Air Force has, has really wanted to get innovation down to the user and allow them to kind of learn what's about what's out there. Because you don't know what you don't know. Right. So if you've never messed with a 3D printer, then you probably don't know what a K can do the same thing with VR or programming or building an app. So for a kind of a low investment cost, we're trying to, at a base level, buy this type of equipment so people can come in and experiment with that and then take what they just learned back to their jobs into their processes and say, you know, I have a struggle with, you know, we'll say this space here and turning this wrench. Can I design a new tool that would be able to help me get past that and well, guess what, come on in, try something. And what if you, you're not successful? What have you wasted, you know, only about five minutes and, you know, a dollar.

You probably learned something anyhow.

And that's right. That's right. You learn something. Oh, that didn't work. Well, what's next? It's always what's next. Yeah, and, and the people that, that run these cells, like I'm the one that's building the one at Tinker right now. And. We're really, you know, enthusiastic about trying to help these guys and get them back in and say, hey, that didn't work. Let me see if I can find another resource to be able to help you. Because at that point we've identified a problem, they want to fix it, and so it's just another avenue.

So what about things like virtual reality and whatnot? Are you guys exploring that?

Oh, absolutely. So some. There is virtual reality training already happening, and they do that with what they call pilot next. I haven't really been involved with that at all, but I've learned a little bit about it. And it's about, you know, kind of getting pilot trainees through the process faster. So that way we can, you know, have more pilots, but at our level. Right. So think if you needed to do egress training, you know, escaping from an aircraft, you know, a fire or something like that. Well, it's not very often that we could simulate a fire on an aircraft. Right. We don't want that to happen at all, actually. Never, never, ever, ever want that to happen.

Yeah.

So if you can design the environment in VR, then you can do that training at exactly zero risk. Right. It's a little bit of investment to design it, but then you can. Then you can learn how to do it. Absolutely. And then you could also use it for any other process that say you don't do very often. I mean, there's been jobs that, you know, I've only come across once in my career and, you know, I had to like it. It took a heck of a lot of time because we hadn't ever experienced it before. So by having some of that kind of stuff in VR, it allows you to really get experience without ever having to touch it. So you're just that more able before going in. I mean, it's not sure, it's not the, hey, let me teach you how to swim, jump in the pool, and you're going to be able to do it. Yeah, but it's, it is a starting point. It gives you a little bit of experience.

Yeah. So what's next for, for Reza and for. For the Air Force as it relates to CPI squared?

So what's next? We, you know, we, we just got to keep moving forward, you know, engaging our leaders, continuing to engage the people at the ground level, really getting after the mindset and the behaviors that they have. By getting everybody involved, we're just going to make the Air Force that much better. So that's really our continued effort, continued training. We really want to get the leaders involved with that training as well. And some of them are. And we also have courses that our senior leaders go to for very specific things. So everybody's kind of getting the training. It's just, you know, how do we continue to engage them and really go after their tactical level processes and get them to realize that? So what I'm working with right now is really scaling down those KPIs and getting to the leading metrics. So for instance, we'll go back to an aircraft. Whenever we're launching an aircraft, the crews have a certain amount of duty time. Right. That they can fly safely because you can't stay up forever. So we want to be able to launch the jet within a certain amount of time. So you step to the jet, you start doing your checklist, walk around making.

Sure everything, duty time start.

So right. Whenever they show up and sign in at the squadron, okay. So they sit on the ground for three hours. You're wasting time. Well, yeah, you're making sure everything's safe during that time.

I mean, not wasted. Yeah, it shouldn't take three hours. I don't know how long it should.

Take in the traditional sense. It is kind of waste. Right. In the lean terms. But they're going through their checklist and making sure everything's okay. Now if something happens to go wrong within that time, what, what happened? You know, that's a data point. And then how much time did it take again? Another data point that'll lead our shop level people on, on how they could train. For instance, if you, instead of just doing a job once and then signing a person off, did they do it within the right amount of time frame? You know, and that's kind of a different, a different way to look at it because now we're looking at it from the real customer perspective rather than, hey, we're doing our job and by engaging but by having people look at it, you know, what's, what's at the end of the value stream that they'll more understand what they contribute to, therefore wanting to make their processes better. At least that's my hope.

How do you define value? You know, we talked about Nigel Thurlow from Toyota Connected, you know, talking about flow. The flow is the continuous movement of value. Right, Right.

So what's value for the Air Force?

So value is, you know, anything that changes the form fitter function, very first time raw materials into the finished goods. So depends on your perspective, obviously.

Yeah, but maybe let's go back to.

That example with the, with the pilot, you know, checking out the airplane and you know, make the argument is checking out the airplane value add essential non value added. Maybe something like that. Right, but, but ultimately I guess you're trying to get, move that plane from point A to point B.

Absolutely right.

So doing that as efficiently as possible is that value?

That's. Yes, that's that. I mean that's exactly what that process. This is after Getting, you know, everything working the very first time, going through the process. Right. And then how do we get that, the wasted motion out of that? I mean, right now I have a team looking at how they, you know, logistically go around the aircraft and can we make that faster? Looking at their walking path and their motions to see is it the most efficient route possible, and then mirroring that with the crews that come out.

So who's better, U.S. air Force or American Airlines? You know, I put you on like that.

I haven't seen Americans Airlines.

I'm just curious of like, you like a domestic airline versus like a US Air Force or, you know, any. Any military that's got airplanes and whatnot. I mean, they obviously have more, maybe they do more, I guess, more flights, obviously. Right.

So, yeah, they definitely do more flights, but, you know, but our purpose in the air is very, very specific for awacs. It's command and control. Yeah, we take off and we coordinate the fight. Without us, there could be a lot more chaos, a lot more. A lot more fog of war, for instance.

For sure, for sure.

So in that aspect, I say we are much better.

Who do you want to go to.

Fight, U.S. air Force or American Airlines? U.S. air Force, that's right. Yeah.

Oh, that's so good. That's so good. All right. Trying to think, you know.

Having folks.

Like you on, you know, you don't get to get the opportunity much to talk to folks in the military. So it's always like one of those things you're driving.

Oh, I should have asked Reza that.

You know, But I mean, is there anything like kind of words of wisdom? You want to leave folks who are practicing continuous improvement out there. Non military, military, doesn't matter.

So, I mean, I find that my journey isn't unique. You know, there's been the same challenges that I've heard from other members on the podcast. Yeah, you got to seek out those leaders that really want to do it. You got to seek out the change agents and get those informal leaders on board as well, and then provide them the training, help them out, be there, ask them, challenge them to make something better. And by doing that, relentlessly doing that.

Yeah, I give up.

Right? Yeah. I've been told thanks for bird dogging that. And I'm like, what's that mean? Yeah, like, I don't know. That means that a good thing. And it's just. Just staying after it, staying after it, staying after it without it. I mean, I. I've seen things get in the way. Right, You've. I'M sure you've probably done process improvement events that have kind of died off and they're like, well, why aren't we going forward? Oh, well, our ops tempo has really increased right now. Or something else has come up and we. And it just gets pushed back and push bash and push back and, and whenever people find that they don't have the time to go after strategy, I'm like, well, what is that thing? Because that's now strategy. Yeah. Whatever gets in the way of us trying to move forward, that's what we have to go after. Right.

Right.

And so that's always, that's always like, what am I doing now? How do I get to. Yes.

Yeah, that's, that's.

Those are. Those are, I guess could be my party or it's a wisdom.

Very good. What's the best way for folks to connect with you?

So I'm on LinkedIn Reza Zanopore.

And that's spell your last name in case people are just listening.

Well, I'll spell my first name too. Yeah, you'll probably only need the last name. Zanopore is Z E, I N A L, P O, U, R. And my first name is Reza. R E, Z A.

Got it. Thanks again for coming on, Reza.

Thanks very much. Pleasure having me again.

Thanks for your service and thank you. Keep up the good work.

Awesome. Great.

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