GA 309 | Lean and Self-Development with Pete Kuehn

You can have a bad guy. I'm okay. You know, there might be a psychological need, I don't know. But don't let the bad guy be in this building or in your own home either, you know, and of course, I don't have control over that one. But, you know, at work I can let the guys know I don't want the bad guy to be in this building.

Today I'm excited to welcome Pete Kewan to the show. Now, Pete and I first met over LinkedIn and got to kind of chatting back and forth and I just asked him if he wanted to come onto the show to share his Lean story. And what I appreciate about this episode is Pete's willing to share some personal stories from his childhood and really kind of talking about really his full journey of Lean from even just growing up and more of what he would describe as a minimalist type upbringing with his folks who didn't have a lot of extra money and what that taught him and how that taught him to, you know, use what you got effectively. And this is definitely seems to have spilled over into his professional life. So, yeah, I just really appreciated Pete's honesty and his. His vulnerability as well. So show notes for this episode can be found over@gemba podcast.com just look for episode 3. 09. Again, gemba podcast.com and look for episode 3. 09. Okay, enough for me. Let's get to the show. Pete, welcome to the show. How's it going?

Pretty good.

All right, well, thanks for coming on. We've had some fun chatting before. We hit record and had a lot of conversation over LinkedIn. So I appreciate you carving out some time to come onto the show.

You bet. Thanks for having me on, Ron.

Yeah, my pleasure. All right, well, so Pete, you know, we got an interesting topic. I think we're going to kind of probably focus a little bit on respect for people side of Lean, which is, I believe, and I think you agree, the most important part of Lean, in my opinion. But before we get to that, I know you listen to the show. We sort of like to begin with our guests sharing a quote. So do you have one that you want to share?

Yes, I do. And the quote is go see, ask why, and show respect.

So what's that mean to you?

One of the reasons I'm attracted to it is go see means kind of jump in, ask why, be curious about people, and then show respect is the build the bridge. And one of the things I've come to realize lately is that each one of those involves people.

Yeah, it sure does, yeah. I mean, lean doesn't. I mean, sometimes we talk about the factory of the future and all the rest of it, you know, having a bunch of robots or whatever, but in the end, there's going to be some people orchestrating all those robots and making things happen. So, yeah, it's. It's at the heart of what we're all about.

Right, Right.

Beautiful. Hey, so tell us a little bit about your background, Pete. Tell us how you first got involved with all this continuous improvement stuff and. Yeah, just tell us about Pete.

Well, I've always enjoyed working with my hands and got a job in a machine shop years ago. And I actually started off digging trenches for this guy. He came up from Southern California, moved his whole shop, Northern California, and bought an old logging mill site and started his machine shop there. And so with 40 acres, he had a lot of outside work that needed to be done. And so I had no machine shop experience, but I knew how to dig a trench, so I started digging trenches. And then when it started raining, you know, fall came, started raining, he asked me, you know, you want to come in the shop and do run a machine in the shop? And I said, sure. You know, I'd always loved working by hands. And so I still remember that very first machine I got to run. It was a Bergmaster drill press. And of course, the guy I that gave me a little bit of training, he was more than happy to let that job go because he'd been drilling holes for I don't know how long, but removing the metal out of the holes and knowing that when I shape the metal, it's going to stay that way for a long, long time. Not like building something out of wood or like that. So I definitely fell in love with the trade right then on that first day.

Cool. So how did you get into continuous improvement and that side of things?

I learned the word continuous improvement much later on, but found that I practiced of continuous improvement in that machine shop where I learned the machinist trade.

Okay, so that was, I guess, kind of your entry into the world of work, if you will. But what about lean and continuous improvement? How did you first get exposed to that? Or was it informally at first and then formally later, or how did that go?

So I would have to say informally first because I wasn't formally introduced to lean until a couple years ago. But informally, I'm going to say the first part of lean I learned as a kid. And growing up on welfare and being the oldest of six kids, I saw my mom do incredible Things with very little. And those kind of images and things that I learned as a kid stuck with me a long time and brought those forward.

So talk about those. I mean, that's obviously a deeply personal. So I don't want to probe too, too deeply and feel free to share as much or as little as you want to. But I mean, talk about that. Those, those times growing up with your, with your folks, you know, where you might not have had a lot of money or whatnot. Like what, how did, how did that kind of, I mean, what kind of lessons did you learn there that, that might, I don't know, have parallels to, to what we're trying to do with Lean?

One kind of a funny little story is did you know that if you plug in a 12 volt TV to a car battery, that as that car battery goes down the screen, the picture screen actually starts shrinking? I didn't know that either until, you know, we're watching the tv, probably an I Love Lucy or something on the car battery, and we'd have to shut it off during commercials and that, that would charge up the battery enough so you could watch a little bit more. So that is not a.

You know.

You can't take that forward as an adult. But there were some instances where we had very little but still survived, still made do with what we had. An extreme story might be. We had actually a toilet paper ration in our family, so my mom made a game out of it to see who could use the least amount of toilet paper. Now this story might be a little rethinking, ridiculous or like, okay, yeah, he's talking about toilet paper. But my sister was my hero because for one day she used one square of toilet paper. And you know, again, how, you know, it's extreme stories. How does it help me as an adult again, that from a Lean perspective.

Someone'S more like a minimalist is kind.

Of like what I'm hearing is like, there we go. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, I, I can, I have an overabundance of stuff. And that's one of my attractions to Lean is that I've been practicing lately is how many steps can I remove, how many items can I remove out of this process? And the guys still get the same result. They still make a part that the customer will pay for. And I just removed a process out. And one of the things that I've been learning from one of the Lean guys there where I work is how we tend, we as maybe a company or a nation tend to like to add things. We just Want to keep adding processes to fix the outcome. So that part of it I'm very attracted to, probably from my childhood, the minimalist side of it is how little can. How little do I need to still get the same result?

Yeah. Well, it's interesting when you look back on, like, the history of Toyota. I don't know how much you've studied them, but you know that after the war, they were, the whole country of Japan was, Was in a bad way, obviously, and they were lacking resources. And this little company over there trying to, to build, you know, trucks and then cars and then Jeeps and all on the same assembly line and, you know, they had to use what we would say now. Their wits over their wallet. Right, and.

Exactly.

So I think maybe growing up when you didn't have a lot, you know, maybe it. I don't put words in your mouth, but it sounds like, I mean, I, honestly, I've not really shared this on the podcast before, but a similar situation growing up with my, with my mom, you know, she, she also was. Was struggling to, to raise some kids and, and whatnot. And, and yeah. So I think, I think there's a lot of valuable lessons in, in struggling a little bit. You know, not that everyone. I don't want anybody to think you got to struggle to be successful at Lean or anything like that, but. But I think there is something to minimalism and trying to, to figure out how you can do things with less and, and why more isn't always better. And obviously more isn't always better. Within Lean, you can have more and more inventory. That's not going to help you. It's only going to hurt you.

Right.

It's over. You're going to have overproduction. You're going to have a waste of inventory and all the rest of it.

So the Toyota. My understanding, like you said, was they were struggling. They needed to turn the customer order into cash as quickly as possible. And like you said, what I learned, it wasn't until after the war that they actually, quote, started to get Lean. And I see companies do Lean for two reasons. One, they do it because if they don't, they're going to go bankrupt. Or two, they do it because, what, we can make more money? Of course we want to make more money. And I don't know, you know, again, I am new to Lean. That may sound too basic or, but that's just my observation that I've been getting out of it. It seems like the companies that are more successful at Lean are the ones.

That are hungry yeah, well, I mean, I think there's truth for sure. Those two are most definitely Personas, if you will, of the lean of the lean journey. I mean, companies that are struggling. You know, there's a famous book called the Goal. I don't know if you've read it, but you know, it's more the theory of constraints, but you know, lean in disguise, basically. Sorry, all the TOC guys are out there. It's not lean, you know, but, but, but yeah, you know, his, his factory's failing, his, his marriage is in shambles and all the rest of it and here comes this wise, you know, guru to, to help them and yeah, kind of, kind of turns it around, right? Turns the factory around, turns his life around, so of it. And you're right, I mean there are, there are folks who out there who want to, you know, be, be a more successful company and, and you know, make more money. So for sure, I don't, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Right. I mean if you're a for, for, for profit company, go for it. Right? But I would say there's probably a third Persona as well. And that's, that's the companies who just genuinely get it and they genuinely buy into the idea that they want to make the world a better place. And you know, they want to, they want to, they want to enjoy their work. They want the people that work for them to enjoy their work. They want to help humanity right at large. And I would say, you know, if you can, if you can fall into that world, that's going to be, that's where the magic happens right now. It's not to say that one day that company's going to have some financial hardship and find themselves on the brink of bankruptcy, but if they have that foundation of genuinely respecting people and trying to help people, they're going to be so much further ahead, you know, than, than, than anybody else is. You know, Paul Aker is one of my good friends, you know, two second lean guy. You know, his like fix what bugs you and, and you know, quit, quit wasting, you know, energy on, on, on things that, that you shouldn't be wasting energy on. Right. Like, like any doing anything with waste. Because if you can remove all that, then you can elevate your thinking, elevate your, your way of working to a higher plane. And that's when you, that's when real success is going to fall into place.

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, so back on your theme of respect for people. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So the So I got in the machine shop. I got exposure to processes and how improving processes gets a good result. And one of the next, quote, unofficial learnings of Lean that I had was my relationship with my wife. It was. I enjoyed and got rewarded in that machine shop and would want to spend as many hours a day as possible in that machine shop. And I had. You know, I had a wife, and I was. You know, we joke now, but, you know, I told her, I said, oh, I told you I loved you when we got married. What's the big deal? And so I had quite a learning curve to go there. But after many years of therapy and counseling and good guidance from wise people, I learned that just because she thinks differently than I do doesn't mean she's odd or weird or anything. In fact, I've learned, and I share this with. With the guys that I work with, she has value and maybe even more than I might have in some instances. And the little story there was, you know, I'm at work, I'm struggling with an issue. I can't figure out, okay, what's the right solution to this? And come home, share with my wife. And she goes, oh, have you thought about doing it this way? And I was like, oh, that is brilliant. I would have not thought of that myself. But because she does think differently, she was able to come up with that. And that's something that I am bringing forward into my current Lean journey is. Yes. Learn the processes and. Okay, what. Oh, you think differently than I do. Tell me more.

Yeah, tell me more. That's a very powerful statement. Right, but it's sometimes hard to say.

Right, right. And it. The. One of the building trust is something that I found with the guys. When I say, tell me more, do they think, oh, I'm gonna. They're gonna tell me something, and I'm gonna use it against them. You know, what's the old story with the lean, the guys with the stopwatch, and the guy's like, look how fast I can do this. And then they do it in one minute, and then the other shift comes on, and they're like, we got to do it in a minute now. I was like, yeah, the standard has been set. And so people got wind of that, and so they saw the timekeepers coming, and they worked slower to set the pace slower. And in the culture I'm trying to develop is to not have that. So one of the. Along that trust lines, one of the stories that occurred with me at work recently, and I saw that as a huge breakthrough in developing Trust and respect for people is I do the scheduling for the cell, how many parts per hour they're going to get. And so I'm writing down my numbers and the lead comes up to me. And I'd been maybe four months at the company, so they didn't. They're still, you know, checking me out. And he comes up to me and he kind of real soft voices, you know, I'm scheduling two per hour. He comes up to me and says, you know, we can make three per hour. I'm like, tell me more. And he says, yeah, all we have to do is turn this. This switch here and it'll skip that step. And. And that, for me personally, was a huge breakthrough in earning the trust of that cell.

Yeah, because you listened, right. Or you were willing to hear their ideas.

Right. And not use it against them. Not say, well, how come you didn't tell me this when I first started? Or, you know, before.

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. Exactly. So let's talk a little bit in there about, you know, about the whole idea of respect. Talk a little bit. I mean, talk a little bit about. If you listen to the older episodes, it used to be a question I would ask people, what does respect for people mean to you? But talk about that. Talk about respect and how you feel, how we lead thinkers can practice it, right?

So, one, there's many ways to show respect. The first one I might try is I got to figure out where the person is, what do they value, you know? And so first they're coming in, they're working. So I'm going to value that in them and kind of build the kind of a mutual respect. Respect what they're already doing and the respect. Because people are complicated. Machines are simple, right? You press the green button, it goes, red button, it stops. People have different communication styles, different disc scores, and then all of that can vary day to day. So getting to know the person, I think would be the first step in respecting another person. Does that make sense?

Yeah, for sure. What else?

One of the things I use with the guys and myself and my wife and everybody that I interact with is the idea of the Emotional Bank Account by Stephen Covey. You heard of that one? Of course, yeah. And so every person I interact with, I'm either making a deposit or making a withdrawal. And something that I consciously try to do with the guys is make deposits, go through and make a deposit with them anytime I can. And knowing what their love language, so to speak, is, so that I'm making a deposit that they receive as a Deposit, right. It's not according to me, if it's a deposit or not. It's according to them if it's a deposit. So I'm making deposits and I want to fill their bank account, so to speak, because I know there will be a time maybe I'm having a bad day or coming across wrong that I'm going to make a withdrawal. And I do not. I would not want anybody to work on reserve if at all possible, because that respect for people again. And so if I can make deposits regularly, then when I make a withdraw, we're still good. There's still plenty of reserve there. And my drive for that is I have worked on empty or reserve before. The days are very long. I'm definitely not as productive because I know how to, you know, years on a machine. I know how to look busy but run the machine pretty slow. And I think I've mentioned that to my bosses, hopefully that. So the people are my biggest variable in getting lean to grow in an area. So if I can learn about the people, work with their language, make deposits. I have one guy, if I make a big deal in our group about an improvement, he made, oh, his chest puffs out and he's all excited about it. Another guy, if I put his name on the board, even the smallest public recognition is actually a withdrawal. So I honor that. I said no, I go to him personally. Hey, let them know, and I let them know, I will not bring your name up in public because I know that's a withdrawal. And you know, for me, being a very social person, that it takes a little bit for my brain to wrap around, but that's a truth.

Yeah, well, and it goes back to what you said initially of getting to know the person. Right. And you aren't able to do that if you don't know the person. You don't know their person, personality. And even I would say I've learned over the years is a cultural thing. Certain parts of the world receive recognition in very, very different ways. You know, some people will be devastated if you called them to the front of the room, whereas others are going to be completely offended if they're not right. So that's great. One parallel question to this. We were talking about this emotional. This bank account, if you will, and this dis. Involves others. But what about yourself, Pete? How do you. Do you ever try to, I don't know, deposit things into your own account for yourself? You know, like, in other words, help, help, you know, vision, physician, heal thyself kind of thing? Have you have you thought. Ever thought of it that way?

Yes, that is a great question. And I can't give what I don't have.

So how do you go about that? I mean, how do. How do you. How do. How do you help yourself? How do you put deposits into your own account so that. So you then have more to give? Is it learning new things or. I don't know. I don't want to put words in your mouth.

So first learning that I had value. Yeah, you know, it's kind of a loaded question. If I could. That I have value enough to make deposits and what. And those deposits need to be put in the right place. I thought working 12, 14 hours a day was making deposits, but that was not beneficial for me to make deposits in other people's account. For me, for my style.

Yeah, I think it's important for everyone. The things that I've personally learned is, you know, if I'm. Well, I have a really, really dear friend and close friend and who, you know, has to. Is more of a caregiver, you know, of a. Of a. Of a loved one. And, you know, this person explains that they've got to take care of themselves. Right. You know, first, you know, because if they're not caring for themselves, if they're not, you know, exercising, if they're not getting enough sleep, if they're not eating well, you know, those sorts of things, like how in the world could they ever provide care for their loved. And it's just like on the, on the airplane, you know, put your own oxygen max on first before you take care of your little kids. Because if you're passing out, how are you going to help anyone? Right. So. So I just feel it's important for all of us to. To reflect on that and not forget that. That, yeah, we want to help other people and we should never stop that. But we do have to take care of ourselves. We have to lead ourselves in order to help and really maximize our. Our ability to lead others and to help others and to help the world. So, yeah, whether that's physically, spiritually, professionally, in education, whatever, I think it's super important to not ever forget that.

Right, right, exactly. And coming. I have to be full before I can give. And getting enough sleep, getting exercise, eating right. And also the education and spiritual life is huge in filling up and being able to see the big picture. Yeah. That is something actually this morning that I was struggling with. I had to remind myself, pete, remember the big picture.

Remember the big picture. Yeah.

It's like, okay, that's Right. Everything's okay from this perspective. The details might be a little frustrating and confusing and struggle with, but, Pete, remember the big picture and go outside, take some breaths. Okay. Go back and do it again.

Exactly, exactly. So I understand you have a 911 story.

Yeah. Let's see. That was something that was a revelation to me during that time. And so I share it with whenever there's people that struggle with somebody else and. And basically growing up in machine shops and on the manufacturing floor, it always seemed like there was always somebody that was getting picked on. And it almost seemed like human nature that it was like there was one guy out of the 10 that had to work inside the building that would be vented on or get anger even directed towards. And I thought, okay, maybe that's just how it got until that day of 9 11. And I saw not only did the bad guy leave the building, the bad guy left the country. And for a short time, everybody worked together. You know, we saw the flags fly in and everybody appreciated each other. And so I tell that story sometimes when I am supervising somebody that might be struggling with somebody else and that you can have a bad guy, I'm okay. You know, it might be a psychological need, I don't know. But don't let the bad guy be in this building or in your own home either, you know, and of course, I don't have control over that one, but, you know, at work, I can let the guys know I don't want the bad guy to be in this building. And so that's the little. My takeaway from that.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's pretty powerful. It's pretty powerful. So I know you've read quite a few books in your journey here. What are some of your favorites?

The Toyota Way is one that has many just gems in that one. The Goal was another one. A lot of the goal, I have to say, went over my head. I was trying to grasp all of that. And the other one that probably had a personal effect on me was the beginning of my official Lean Journey was a class with Gary Connor here in Oregon, and he gave me a book, Lean Manufacturing, that he wrote. And so, because I had met the author and was encouraged by him, and he encouraged me and my Lean Growth, that book has a special place.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Right? Well, Pete, someone's listening to this, and maybe they're just kind of getting started on their own Lean Journey, or maybe they've hit a, I don't know, a speed bump or two or three. And they're struggling. What kind of. Of words do you have for that person? Speak to that person.

I was thinking of a question, but it was worded differently in my head, and it was, what's my personal biggest struggle in applying lean daily? And maybe that is the same question. And for me personally, right now is time. It doesn't seem like I have enough time on the manufacturing floor to implement lean, and that's kind of a struggle because my. My passions with it, my heart's with it. I. I'm seeing the bigger picture and the growth that can be there. And one of the. Adam, one of the guys I work with, he said a great quote. We don't want to do lean and then go back to our job. We want doing lean to be our job, to be more incorporated in with it. And so, you know, he's a really smart guy. So I try to take that and how does that fit into to my life? And so any encouragement is there will be ups and downs and to, you know, reach out to other people who are in the lean community and get encouragement from them. You know, there's lots of great podcasts, of course, on Gimba Academy, and there's YouTubes that you have and that other people have, and so keep filling up on that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Your colleague there who's talking about, you know, it's just kind of the way we work. It's sort of like I always mess it up, but that old, funny story of the fish, you know, swimming by, like, how's the water? And all of a sudden one guy's like, what's water? You know, and they're swimming in it.

Right.

But if, you know, if. If we. If we truly embrace lean and this way of thinking and working, it's no longer lean. It's just. It's just. It's the air around us and the water around us, if you will, or if you're a fish, you know, and it's just the way that we. The way that we do things, the way that we think, the way that we behave, the way we treat others, that sort of thing. Yeah.

Yes, yes. And how do we. How do we get there?

Yeah, yeah. What do you think?

Right? That by talking with you, by surrounding myself with people who are where I want to be.

Yeah.

By, you know, reading their books, watching their. Just filling myself with that information. You know, I said somewhere along the line that, you know, I caught the lean bug. You know, I drank the Kool Aid. There's no going back now.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I come home and my wife is actually one of the leanest people I know. And so I try to watch and observe a lot from her. And I can see things in the kitchen, house, like, oh, I see why you put that there. It's like, huh, maybe I could apply that. Something like that. It works.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah. And I would say, you know, another thing you can do is like, how do you do it? Is just, you just, you take one step and, you know, make a prediction of what you think is going to happen, evaluate what actually happened, and then reflect on what you learned. Right. And then you just keep doing that. You just keep repeating that process. And, you know, that's scientific thinking. That's lean. Right? That's what.

Exactly.

That's what we're trying to do, so.

Exactly. And the. For me, personally, where I struggle with that is I want not just baby steps. I can see if we take this huge step, we can get here. And so there's a. Sometimes a frustration in that we have to take baby steps. But again, you know, remember the big picture, Pete?

Yeah, well, and sometimes I think it's okay to take a big step, you know, just. But again, I think there's no shortcut to, to asking the question, what do you think is going to happen? And then reflecting on what actually happened and what did you learn? And you might learn that, hey, we nailed it, we got it right, and here's what we learned, and it was a good thing, or you might learn that, boy, we shouldn't do that again. So I wouldn't say a big step or a small step is appropriate or one's better than the other. Typically, we just want to take a big enough step to where we can learn something, you know, and as long as you're doing that and you're, you know, you're adapting and you're not making the same mistakes again and again, you know, this is really the direction we should be going. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, Pete, what's the best way for folks to connect with you if they want to reach out to you, you know, on LinkedIn, all that kind of stuff?

Yeah, yeah. So I have the LinkedIn account, of course, which is where we connected there. And I also have the petecuenleanmail. Okay. Spell your last name, which is linked. On my LinkedIn, my last name is K U E H N. Okay, Kewan.

Got it. Pete Kewan. All right, well, we'll link to that in the show notes. So let me see where we at here on episode. This is 309. So gembapodcast.com this will be episode 309 and we and we'll link to everything. Everybody hit Pete up. And yeah, appreciate you coming on. Appreciate you sharing some personal stories. That's not always easy to do, but I think it's valuable when we can do that and hear and learn from others. So thank you.

You bet. And thank you, Ron, for sharing a little bit of your story, too. That makes it personal to me.

Yeah. Awesome. All right, you take care and get back out there to the Gemba and see what you can learn, Pete.

You bet. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, Take care. Thanks for listening to the Gemba Academy podcast. Now we invite you to take a no strings attached, fully functional Test drive of GembaCademy.com gain immediate access to more than a thousand Lean and Six Sigma learning resources, all free of charge at GembaAcademy.com.