GA 332 | Lean, Fashion Photography, and E-Commerce with Adam Murfin

When the opposition team turn up and they all arrive on a coach together or bus together, they get off the coach together, they go into the changing room together, they come out and they all are wearing the exact same kit, instantly I think to myself, this is going to be a long old afternoon because these guys are organized and they might not be, they might well not be, but half of the battle is just that perception. Perception is reality.

Today I'm excited to welcome Adam Murphin to the show. Now, Adam, as you'll hear, is a professional photographer and we connected over LinkedIn and come to find out that he has been applying Lean principles to the work he does. And, well, his primary job is to take photos of different types of assets, whether it's clothes or shoes or things like that. And then these pictures then are used in e commerce and other ways to market these products. And come to find out there's quite the, quite the process to this. There's pre production and production and post production, and if you're not careful, it can be a big mess, like any kind of production process. And so Adam has learned about Lean and he's, he's begun to implement improvements to the way that they do their work. And so throughout the show, we just kind of walk through some various examples of, of how Lean is being used in that, that creative and e commerce environment. So really fun episode. Adam's from, from, from England. So he has that, that excellent, very cool accent that I'm always so jealous of, but really nice guy and I think you're going to enjoy the show. So show notes for this episode can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 332. Again, gembapodcast.com, look for episode 332. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. Adam, welcome to the show. How are you?

I. Good, thank you. How are you?

I'm doing well, doing well, thank you. So. So where are you calling in from, Adam?

I am in London, England, in the, in the lion's den. I often say.

Nice. I love London. Oh, my gosh, what a. What an amazing city. Amazing city with some. I remember walking through London. Oh, it's been many, many years ago. And, and something to. They were looking at these, these steps of this building and like how many thousands of years old these steps are. I'm like, there's nothing in America that's a thousand years old, you know? You know, let alone these random steps that nobody pays attention to. Right. And so it's Just amazing.

Yep. Good stuff. I'm actually from the countryside, but before I moved to London, I actually worked in Manchester, which, to be honest, I much preferred living in Manchester. It's a slightly smaller city, but it's. People are just. People are friendlier. People are nicer in the slightly smaller places.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's. That's the case the world over, probably. So.

Yes.

So a very important question when I talk to any British folks. So who's your favorite football team?

I love sport, and I often use sporting analogies in my work, actually, and football is the only sport that I really can't engage with.

Really?

Really. But if you had to push me on this, having lived in Manchester for a long time.

Yeah.

I'd have to say Manchester City. Yeah.

Oh, city. Okay. Okay.

Yes. My dad was a Manchester City fan, and I used to work with a lot of Manchester United fans. And, yeah, we had some interesting conversations about that. You can't live in that city and not be involved in it in some way.

You know, pretty much like, is it like a 50, 50 split of city versus man U or. Or. Or is there more United fans? Something like that?

Sometimes it depends who you ask, but it. Sometimes it depends on who's winning the most.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's great. That's great. That's great. Okay, well, so, Adam, I'm really glad that we connected over LinkedIn. Thank you for. I, you know, I guess you mentioned you listen to the show, and I. I appreciate you listen. Your field of expertise is also very, very interesting to me on the creative side, and so I'm really excited to dive into this topic today. But as you know from listening to the show, we like to begin with our guest sharing a quote. So do you have one that you want to open up with?

I do. Any. I've been thinking a little bit about this, and any people that work with me, I often use profanity quite a lot. So I've tried to think of a phrase that doesn't involve any profanity. Here we go. Just because you can buy the plane does not mean you know how to fly it. So oftentimes in what I do, you are confronted with a business owner or your line manager, and they might want a specific result very quickly without any frontline operational experience. They just want that result, and I want it by this time, and that's it. And I believe that in life, you lead and manage in two directions. You lead and manage the people underneath you and the people above you, and it's your job as a leader in a business to not necessarily confront your line manager. Sometimes you must, I often say, you converse, do not confront when it's with your line manager. And you must be able to challenge them and say, look, I understand you want these things, but if we implement them at that pace and with this process, ultimately we are going to end up with a substandard product that's going to make everyone's life more difficult. You must have the courage to do that and do so diplomatically and in a way that gets the result that you want. I'm often dismayed even to this day where I see mid level managers and directors in different businesses who are constantly firefighting all the time because they have failed to confront their initial line manager and say, hang on a minute, let's stop and let's look at this. I understand you want this result, but let's find the best possible way, the most efficient way of doing it. And if that takes a little bit longer, then we make that sacrifice. One of the. Lord knows I'm guilty of this mistake myself in being excited about a project and wanting that result quickly. But one of the lessons I've learned from studying Toyota leadership is most western companies, if you have a year to deliver a project, they will spend two months planning and then 10 months implementing. And most Japanese companies will conversely spend 10 months planning and then implementing the result rapidly. So managing those expectations of the people above you is. And confronting them where necessary, it's important and you must have the courage to do that respectfully, you know.

Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. Very interesting. So I want to, I'm really interested to ask the traditional question about your background and how you discovered Lean and I will, but I want to, once you open up with what is your industry, let's just talk about that first because I think it's important that we set a foundation here.

So my skill, my profession, my background is photography. Okay. And I work in the fashion e commerce industry. So for example, I will try and give you a relevant American example here. Are you familiar with Nordstrom or. Oh yeah, yeah. I'm sure you're familiar with Nike as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would, that would have been a more relevant example actually. But Nordstrom is more the fashion brand. Okay. So the images and digital content, the creative content that you see on these websites, those companies will have a in house facility that produces that content. I talk to my friends about this and they just think it's easy. You just turn up, you take some pictures and Then that's, you know, that's the end of it. But the reality is, situation is quite different. If for example, you are a, like a Nordstrom, let's say you're shooting dresses, for example, you might have 50 dresses that come in one day. Okay, we need photographs of all these dresses. So these dresses arrive in your studio, in your facility. They then need to be unpacked and they then need to be steamed. And each one needs to go with a different outfit. Where do you get those clothes for the different parts of the outfits? And that's all pre production. Then you need to get to the digital and photography side of things. So dresses need six different shots and that can be look, that can be standardized. And then do they need shots on a model? Okay, we need to do that part as well. Do they need video too? Yep, they need video as well. So that's production. And then post production is what type of fulfillment are we expecting from these images? Are they just going online? In which case they need to be of a specific resolution, a specific color profile. Do they need to go to print different resolution? What part of the business need that? Is there a third party external to the business that needs that? So there's that level of post production as well as taking those 50 dresses. And depending on their value, do they need to go back into inventory, back into stock, or can they be disposed of in another way? So there's an exit strategy for that content. Well, that physical content as well, now that's just dresses for women. Okay. So you then start to broaden that out a little bit. Where you go, jeans, you've got underwear, you've got vests. All of these different things might require different types of shots, a different type of video. Some might require a model shot, some might require just a shot on a mannequin. Then you broaden that out even further. You've got menswear. Each and every single item of menswear might require a different shot. Okay. And then you've got kids wear. And then kids wear might require a different shot. Some places now even doing pet clothing. So there's even another pillar to that there. So it can get very complicated very quickly. And that challenge is often compounded by the demand for creative content as well. Lots of businesses that have worked in, and I have experience with, will inherently hire creative people into these what are essentially process driven roles. And obviously if you come from a creative background, you don't necessarily have a good grasp of production and why lean is important. And it's very easy to Underperform if you don't have that, that knowledge. When I started out, I certainly didn't have that knowledge. Okay. I was definitely one of the creative people that was brought in. But I've found that inherently I often think about things in terms of how can I optimize this, how can I automate this function, how can I do this faster, how can I do this quicker? And that is inherent in hiring a creative person. Because I'm sure you know Simon Sinek, he talks a lot about what things you need to provide employees within your jurisdiction. And he talks about autonomy, mastery and purpose. And that's applicable to any industry. Okay. In my industry there's actually a fourth pillar as well. And you have to support people's personal creative projects. Okay. And look, there's a, you can fathom a business reason for that, but internally, intrinsically, no one, including myself, no one goes and studies photography or videography or art direction or design and envisions themselves becoming a E commerce fashion photographer or an E commerce videographer. You end up doing these roles because there is inherent transferable skills. So supporting that part of people's development is important. But then I believe that if you're going to have any type of career in E commerce, you must understand how to deliver what the business wants in line with that creative contribution as well.

Yeah, that's an interesting background to be applying lean in. So I guess my next question is how did you, how did you stumble across lean and when was that and what was it like in the, in the early phases of discovering all this stuff that we talk about in this movement?

I was, I was fumbling around in different companies and I was getting different experience in menswear and womenswear and fast fashion and different levels of fashion from premium to mid level and value fashion as well. And I was getting through this with a knowledge of different processes and flows and there was no real crystallization of, and no real theory behind these flows, no literature behind them. And then two years ago I read the Toyota Way and it, I would stop short of saying it changed my life, but it certainly changed the way I approach my, my job and my profession.

How'd you find the book?

Some parts are quite dry, to be honest. Ron.

Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. Like, how did you find a book? Did somebody give it to you or just see it at a bookstore?

How did I find it? I can't remember. How were you looking for it or.

Did it just find you?

I read a lot of leadership books and it may have popped up as a recommendation. I had just finished the Dichotomy of Leadership by Jocko Willink, and I'd ordered that on Amazon, and what came up was Toyota Lean Leadership. And then I found out that they referenced the Toyota way a lot in that book. So start with the Toyota way and then move on to lean leadership in Toyota as well. So that's kind of how I found it.

Got it.

It was just by happenstance, but reading through that book, there were so many things in it where I thought, wow, that's what I do. And there's actual literature to support this process that I'm trying to put in place, from creating a pull system to creating standardized work, to creating value added work, which is what I was talking about in really, in allowing your employees to pursue their own creative projects. That to me is value added work. And creating single flow production cells versus one big process separating human work from machine work has been just invaluable for me as well. So there's been so many different ways that that book has really crystallized and influenced the way I approach my job. My team in my current role are probably sick of me talking about it and referencing it, to be honest.

Oh, you listen to another podcast. Great. Here we go. Yeah.

Yeah, that's it.

So let's talk a little bit about, just more maybe the specifics of why you think Lean is important for your creative industry. And really, maybe let's hone in on the E commerce side of it, because, you know, creative is one thing, but E commerce, as you mentioned, is a totally different thing. So where does Lean. What's lean got to do with it?

Right, of course. So in my most recent role, actually, I work for a footwear company in England, Office Shoes. And when I began work there, I thought to myself, oh, this will be quite easy, because as opposed to shooting fashion assets, there's only one asset I have to shoot here. Okay. So going in, I was hired to go in and assess what was. Assess the problems that the studio was experiencing. And I'm gonna say something now, Ron, and I don't know if you would consider it to be a problem in America. Okay. But it's been a stumbling block for me in the studio that I'm responsible for is in Scotland, and it's 450 miles away. Okay. And to us in England, that's a long way to go. Okay. It's a long way to drive. I don't know if it is for Americans. Okay.

Yeah, well, you know, it's not. It's not across to the city, that's for sure.

No, sir. So the underlying tone during my interview process was, we can shut that facility if you want, Adam. And the overtime when I started work there was, we can shut that facility if you want. And the first thing I'm thinking when these directors are telling me this is, let me know if I'm pronouncing this right, is get Gambuto. You must go to the Gimba. You must go to the shop floor and experience these problems for yourself so you can thoroughly understand them. And it gave me an idea then that no one even understood lean manufacturing or lean processing within that business. So without that knowledge, I don't understand how people could even make a suggestion as to why this facility was underperforming. Okay. So that was step one. So.

So you went.

Absolutely. I go every month. Well, yes, almost every month. Okay. And I like to spend at least a week while I'm there as well. When I arrived, there was many different problems, including overproduction, There was inventory problems, there was defects with the product that was coming out the other end. We were over. Over producing for what we needed. We were under producing in some other.

So they're making shoes at this facility? Is that what you're saying?

Well, we're making the photographs. Making the photographs, yes. The. The photos are maybe underexposed or overexposed or the inaccurate colors. So all these problems I had to address and the foot. One of the first ways that I addressed this was by using 5Y to find the root cause of lots of different problems. And the facility is broken up into a couple of different areas where you've got photography, model photography, and post production and retouch intake, and then the post production where the trainers and shoes are going back out. Okay. The very first thing I was able to do was. And the first thing I realized was that there was just shoes and trainers just flying in from the warehouse all the time. One of the keys to controlling that was creating a pull intake system where you control the. How that. How those items are coming into your production facility. That was the first area where it took some diplomacy with different areas of the facility. But it was an area where I was able to gain a little bit of control over the intake. Once that happened, we were able to plan the work a little bit more.

So do you use, like, Kanban or. How did you do that, Ron?

I don't know what Kanban is.

Oh, that's okay. So Kanban, it's like a piece of paper that we might. If I want you to send me some more. Some. Some more product. I send you a piece of paper, and it says, give me 10 widgets. And. But you only send the 10 widgets when you get the piece of paper. Right. And so it's a Japanese word, means signal. So in this example, it might be that the photographers are ready or they will be ready tomorrow for more things, more assets. So they might send a signal, and that could be an. Or it could be some sort of electronic signal. Could be. I mean, at the most basic level, a text message. Send me some more. But we send a signal. Right. And that triggers that pull. So it's probably what you did, and maybe you just didn't even know what it was called.

That sounds about right. We do have a process in place where first thing, we assess the stock, the shoes that have arrived in the business overnight. Okay. And we cross reference that against what's already been shot. Okay. We then have a picking process. But during this picking process, let's say, for example, we've got 30 pairs that are showing on our system to shoot. Okay. One of the biggest problems was 30 pairs are showing, but there's only eight pairs available to us to shoot at that one time. Now, during the workday, there would be photographers and retouchers leaving the facility to go and check whether these other shoes are available to us. At the time, I was able to cut that off and just pressure the people in other departments. Look, the team's ready at this time. Will the intake be prepared for us at this time? If it's not, then it moves on to the. Comes into the studio in a different. At a different time. So we're controlling what's coming in a little bit more. Another stage of how I was able to maximize efficiency there was. Have you ever heard the phrase culture eats strategy for breakfast?

Oh, yeah. Drucker, right? Didn't Drucker say that?

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

I was talking to one of my friends about this, and they would not stop the production line for any reason. That was the culture. And each time they came across a problem. I'm making air quotes with my hands here. They would find what's called a workaround. Okay. Which would take an extra couple of minutes. And I was joking with one of my friends telling him about this, and he said, so there was no and on cord to pull, and there was no cord at all to pull. That was not an available option to them. Okay. My team find it frustrating sometimes when I go and see them now, because you could look measurably whenever I Go up there, production does drop. Because I have the authority to stop the production line and say, why is this happening? Let's find the. Let's find the solution for this, okay? And what I'm trying to do is give them the authority and the confidence to be able to stop the production line, find a solution and report those abnormalities. Okay? If we've got a problem with fulfillment where it's. Say it's an IT problem, okay. You don't. For example, everything in the company is connected on an IT network and some parts of IT can go down now occasionally, Right. So a workaround would be, I'll put those photographs on a USB and I will run it across the facility and then plug it into another computer. In that time, you know, we've got inventory building up in the studio. And solution to that is should be we should solve the IT problem to begin with. You should not be finding different types of workarounds like this. And another phrase I often use is 100 things 1% better.

Yeah.

And if we can improve all these processes just by 1%, then ultimately that 1% is going to add up and add up and add up and eventually we'll end up with a much more efficient studio. But the culture of their facility was to never stop that production line under any circumstances. Now look, there might be a business reason, considering the type of business we're in, where we've got a limited time to sell certain items of stock and those things are urgent and we can make an exception on those situations, but 99% of the time, stop the production line, report those abnormalities and solve the problem at the root cause so it does not happen again.

Yeah. Yeah. I was having a good conversation yesterday with person that I'm coaching, and they were working to implement one piece flow in their organization. And they understood that some of the prerequisites were little to no defects and stable processes and all this kind of stuff. And she said, I'm just worried that we're not ready for it. And so I think we need to prepare some more and more and more. And then basically my counsel was, you know, go ahead and start slowly stepping into it and just realize there's going when you lower the water, right. That the, you know, the example we talked about lowering the rock, you see the rocks right up here and there's gonna. I said, there's gonna be bumps, you know, so just plan for that, expect that. And that way when it happens, you don't need to freak out. But. But you have to start right eventually to to make some improvements. Otherwise, you know, it's never gonna happen, right?

So, yeah, I agree to that point in lowering the rocks and it reveals the problems. Another area where I was able to, I instantly noticed was the place, the entire studio, the entire facility was a mess, Ron. And when I arrived, I was not able to even identify where the problems were because it was a mess. And in the Toyota way they talk about, I think it's an example they give from a Ford plant where Ford lost the car, it come off the production line, they lost the car and they went and filed the police report. And weeks later there's been loads of people trying to find this car. Weeks later they found it underneath inventory at the back of the warehouse. And the example I gave to my team was if a company of that size can make these types of mistakes because they are disorganized and things are a mess and it's not clear where things are, then how can. That can certainly be applicable to us. The next reason I gave them for this as well was that if I've been able to make a lot of technological upgrades within that facility and actually I'm going to go off in the weeds again here, that will actually come down to autonomous work and separating human and machine work. But the equipment I've been able to install within that facility is very aesthetically pleasing, let's say. Okay. And it's expensive. So there will be times when directors and executives from the business will want to come and tour the studio. And that's a positive thing. Okay. Because they want to see what a great job that we're all doing together. But if they arrive and there's shoes everywhere, they're stock and packed everywhere, there's lights everywhere, the camera lying around everywhere, and it's a mess, it instantly will tell them that this is a not not. It's not a crisp operation, it's not a professional operation that we're running. And I give a sports analogy for this. I used to play rugby a lot and I played for an average team. I had a. It was great. One of the greatest experiences of my life playing rugby actually for that team. But we kind of go out and haphazardly, we'd all arrive at different times and we'd go out when our kit wouldn't be matching and we kind of, you know, stroll through a warm up and then we kind of wander back in and come back out and play the game. But when the opposition team turn up and they all arrive on a coach together or bus together, they got off the coach together they go into the changing room together, they come out and they all are wearing the exact same kit. Instantly, I think to myself, this is going to be a long old afternoon because these guys are organized. And they might not be, they might well not be, but half of the battle is just that perception. And perception is reality.

Well, yeah, as a famous story, I don't know if you ever heard of John Wooden. You know, he's a famous basketball coach here in America in university. And one of his famous stories is he would teach. He teaches. You know, these are some of the best young athletes in America, right, that come to play basketball for him. And so they clearly are very, very good at what they do or they wouldn't be at that school. And the first lesson that he often gave was how to tie their shoes the correct way, you know, and he had a purpose behind it. Because if you don't tie your shoes right, then that could lead to blisters. And then if you have a blister, then, you know, you're not going to be much good on the basketball court. Right. And so take care of the little details. And to your point, the other bigger things are going to be at least have an opportunity to be good. Right. So I love that example.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. So as we kind of come towards the end here, Adam, this has been really, really interesting. I wonder if you could maybe talk a little bit about, you know, within lean. We talk a lot about leadership, you know, and we talk a lot about respect for people. And yeah, the tools are important. One piece flow is important and this and that. But if we, if we're lacking leadership skills and principles or we're lacking respect for people, it's probably all going to fall apart. So can you talk a little bit about your personal take on leadership and how that plays into what you're trying to accomplish?

Of course, one of the best examples I was given about leadership was it was in teaching. And it links in with something else. It links in with part of their TPS as well. But example is this. If you're a teacher and you walk into a room or a classroom and there's 100 students, okay, you explain a task on the board, whatever it is, trigonometry, maths, whatever, you explain this task and 99 of those students do it correctly, and then one student does not, out of the 101 people in that room, who's at fault? Who has made the error? The answer is me, because it is my job to explain that task so everybody can do it and communicate it effectively. And that to me is leadership. The people there want to do a good job. Nobody goes into work in the morning and thinks, oh, I want to do a really bad job today. It's your job as a leader to enable those people and offer them protection, offer them autonomy, mastery, purpose, as we said, support their own creative projects and allow people to truly achieve. When people talk about having a purpose in their job, especially in any type of production facility, it can be. People can find it redundant and monotonous. But if you set out what the goals are and you make those goals clear at the end, let's say we're only producing imagery to X standard at the moment and we're only doing 20% of what we could be doing now, how do we get to, you know, 80% higher? You set those goals out and you need to make. Those are very. Actually, I've rambled on there, Ron. Those are actually very ambiguous goals. But if you make goals specific and give people a target to aim for, people will find more catharticism in their job. Another example of this would be if someone asks me to go for a job interview and they just said to me, just get this job interview for 10 o'. Clock. That's the only information I get. I don't know where it is, I don't know what to bring, I don't know what's happening. So I might arrive, I might by happenstance arrive at the right location, but that I've not got any of the information that this person's required. But if someone says to me, can you Please arrive at 10 o'? Clock? Bring pen, bring a pencil. This is the address, this is the phone number in case anything goes wrong. This is what you'll need. You are allowing people to then achieve. So the more information you give people and the more. The goal that you provide for people is very important and enabling people is important as well. Another area of leadership is one thing I was reading about recently was, I don't know if you're familiar with it. You probably know fundamental attribution error, where you believe that the problem is inherently with the person that not with the culture that they are operating in. And as I said before, culture eats strategy for breakfast. You must produce, you must devise and produce a positive, achievement, focused culture. And that's part of the. I consider that to be part of leadership. I really rambled on there, Ron. It's good in the weeds a lot there.

No, no, I mean if the key themes that I pulled out it. You Know it, you know, it. It is about people, right? First and foremost.

Yes.

You know, and yeah, we've got to give people the, the, the. The freedom to, to aim. We have to help them. We have to set the direction, right? The leadership has to set the direction, and then we have to give the folks the, the, the. The, as you mentioned, the autonomy and the. And, and, and the ability to seek that mastery. It's something that we don't talk enough about. That mastery component of it is so important in that we give them a goal that they're. They're not quite ready, they're not quite there, but they're. They're capable, right? And they can get, they can get better. And then as you, as you make progress, then it kind of gets. Oh, what's the word? Addicting, almost. It's like it's a game, right? It's like, I want to win. You know, people want to win inherently. And so, so this is where these things all start playing together, right? If you have a purpose and, and you have the ability to, to become masterful at something, meaning that we're able to work and see improvement. This is why we're so passionate about scientific thinking. And Toyota Kata is taking these small steps, you know, one step at a time as we get a little bit better towards that ultimate challenge, towards that ultimate vision. And yeah, it all plays together. So I think it's a. I think it. I think it was a beautiful example to set in different words than when we're typically hearing.

One example of where I've actually been able to achieve this recently was when I, When I started in my current role, they were producing on average, I think they were throughput wise. They were clearing 28 pairs of shoes a day through the studio facility. And once I set out the direction and once I'd exposed this vision that I had of the studio to them, I said, I want you to be able to clear 100 styles a day, and I believe you can do it. If we make these improvements and if we get this technology, okay, I have a senior photographer in that facility. And he covertly said to me a few weeks after that. When you first said this to us, Adam, we all of us said together, we didn't tell you, but there's no way we can do 100 stars a day. There's no way we can do that much. There's absolutely no way. And I was discussing with someone else in the studio just yesterday, do you think we could do 100 styles? And he kind of said to me, yeah. You know what? I think a year later, I think if we did this, we made this extra improvement, we can actually do that. And when they achieve that, it will be very cathartic for them to have that goal set out a year ago and then a year later you've achieved something. Now we all said together that we're going to achieve this in one year and now you didn't believe that to begin with, but now a year later, look where we are.

Yeah. I love it. I love it. So good. Adam, it's been really fun talking about this. It's always interesting to just talk about these Lean principles with folks in different industries. Over the last few weeks we've had folks from in the legal profession and all this stuff that we talk about, it really knows no boundaries as far as how it can help because if you have, have people and if you have processes, then, then Lean can, Lean can definitely help. So. So thank you for sharing your, your story. Why don't we end, Adam, with you telling folks how they can best connect with you over social media, something else, you know, website or whatever you'd like.

Just on LinkedIn like most of your guests on it's Adam Merson, MU R Rfin on LinkedIn.

Got it.

Love to hear from some other people.

Got it. And we will link to that in the show notes. So just folks can go to gembapodcast.com this is episode 332. So yeah. Adam, thanks again for coming on. It's been fun. Next time I get over to England, I'm gonna definitely look you up and you can give me a tour. Maybe we go play some rugby or something. You can teach me how to throw the rugby ball or whatever.

Please do. Yeah, sounds good.

Okay. All right, take care, Adam. Thanks again.

Thank you. Thanks. Bye.

Thanks for listening. Whether you've been on the continuous improvement journey for many years or perhaps you're just getting started, GEMBA Academy is here to support you. And while we're best known for our more than 1500 lean and 6 Sigma teaching and virtual tour videos, we also have a team of experienced learning, Lean and Six Sigma practitioners available for one on one coaching, as well as a variety of Lean and Six Sigma certification options. To learn more and to schedule a demo, head on over to gembaacademy.com.