GA 336 | The Process of Process Improvement with Karen Friedenberg

What I love about Lean and there's so many other similar methodologies having that small win, right? So once people see again those, those quick wins, like if you pick out those quick wins, something that's just easy and you know, but gives you great benefit when people see the benefit, see it for themselves, not just talk it when they see it.

Today I'm excited to welcome Karen Friedenberg to the show. Now as you're going to hear, Karen has a really diverse background. She's got some, some manufacturing background and she' an incredible amount of work in service oriented businesses and environments. And so what we talk about today was an approach that she uses for process improvement. Kind of combining some Lean tenants and some dmaic Six Sigma style roadmap tenants and bringing them all together for a pretty robust process improvement process. And so we sort of just walk through the process of how she goes about improvement. Whether it's a five day kind of kite, an event style or more of a two to three month type engagement. She's really following the same steps. Just depends on how complex the process is. Will, will dictate how long the, the improvement cycle is going to be. But so we just walked through some of the tools and some of the approaches that she uses. And what I really appreciated about Karen is I could quickly tell that she's a practitioner, right. And she's really, really done this stuff. And so I started drilling in a little bit on, you know, she had mentioned doing a brainstorming session. So I said, oh, hold on for a second, tell me about brainstorming. How do you do it? Use post it notes? Everybody get a pen. And then next thing you know she's telling you about the different colored post it notes she uses and the reason she's using different colors and how she does affinity diagramming at the end. And so I really kind of pushed her to get to get into the weeds a little bit on some of these tools because yeah, like as you'll hear she, she really knows her stuff and, and she's done a lot over the years. So really fun episode. I think you're going to like it. Show, show. Not this episode will be over@gemba podcast.com just look for episode 336. Also we, depending on when you're listening to this, are about to be releasing some really powerful business process mapping activities, also some daily management system activities which align right with what Karen is talking about. So to learn more about all we have to offer over at Gemba Academy, just go to gemba academy.com and lots of material on business process mapping, lots of material on root cause analysis, that sort of thing. So again, GembaPodcast.com for the show notes and GembaCademy.com for all the good videos and resources that we have. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. Karen, welcome to the show. How are you?

Thanks for having me, Ron. I'm great.

Yeah. All right. Hey, where are you calling in from?

I'm calling in from New Jersey, from central New Jersey.

Nice, nice. All right, well, listen, excited to have you onto the show. As you know, we like to begin all of our episodes with our guests sharing a quote. So do you have one?

I sure do. It's my tried and true insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Yes, and I think I've been using that one. It's just one that keeps coming back up. I'm sure you've probably heard it many times before, but for really the past 15 years, I use that when I start off any Kaizen event or a project just to get people thinking differently and really encouraging people not to say this is just the way we've always done things, but say, all right, well, that might not be the best way. Let's think about some different ways of doing things.

For sure. I love it. Yeah, that's a tried and true, but golly, it never grows old. I don't know if that's a good thing.

It really does. And I listen to your podcast and listen to many of the other quotes that are, but that one just is a tried and true for me.

Exactly. All right, well, hey, Karen, tell us a little bit about your background. Tell us how you first got exposed to all this continuous improvement stuff, and then tell us what you're up to these days.

That sounds great. Thanks. So I started my career at Arthur Andersen doing audit and business consulting. And that's where I started looking at business process and and systems implementations and things of that nature. I moved on from there to work for Campbell Soup Company and that's where I got my lean Six Sigma green belt. Working mostly in the supply chain organization and working on distribution and our production processes and improving them. And over time I became also very involved in our customer service side as I was with Campbell's. And after Campbell's, I decided to go out on my own. I had my own consulting company called Performance Improvement Consulting. And that's where I really took Six Sigma DMAIC methodology and really made it into a process improvement methodology that I Use for several different clients on different types of processes, all different types of industries from order fulfillment and customer support. And I've used it recently on a procurement project so used it for many different purposes and it just always has been tried and true for me. And then I went on to a different type of path over the past two jobs that I've had. I started a process capability as well as an organizational change management capability at a company called Track Intermodal Track leases chassis for the transportation industry and again built up from scratch taking through the process maturity model of looking to just starting with defining processes and then measuring and optimizing and improving and again sort of use that lean six sigma, that lean process methodology on several different areas where we needed to improve the process efficiency and effectiveness. And that's led me to my current position. I'm the senior practice executive at ISIMS and isims. We're a software company and we're the leading HR cloud platform for recruiting. So we help companies to attract and hire and retain their employees. And that in itself just the whole recruiting process has been exciting to be involved with a company that's growing like ISIMs and ISMs. I came on board here about a year ago and my responsibilities here at ISIMS are to build again that process governance and develop our capability in organizational and operational excellence and lead us up to that maturity model to simplify our processes, improve them velocity and working cross functionally across the whole organization. So I have an enterprise wide mindset and work together with our operational leaders to get to that operational effectiveness and excellence.

Sounds fun.

Very fun.

Great. All right, well let's talk a little bit about. You mentioned your kind of a lean business process and you mentioned dmaic. Let's maybe walk through how you're using DMAIC and just the overall process of how you're applying these tools and obviously now a non manufacturing type environment.

Absolutely. So it's, it's come up like I said started out when I was in my head my consulting company and really have perfected it over the past several years using DMAIC as the background and really we starting off with done it as a Kaizen event where we've done it in taking a process and improved it and come up with a gone through really the the D M A and I primarily within you know just like four days to five days as well as in a project type of scenario. So we've done it both ways starting really first with a good kickoff and a small training. Right. So really it's not like something that's widespread at ISIMs, but something that I've been pushing. And we interestingly have Kaizen in our culture. It's one of our core competencies. So people know the idea of improving but didn't necessarily have the language or the tool sets and understanding how to utilize them. So really start off with a little bit of a little training and utilizing some of the key things I think just are just universal in understanding. So talking about the DMAIC and what that stands for and how we're going to take them through that approach. Talking about what is the forms of waste and educating on the forms of waste, giving the definition of value. I feel like just having a clarity on what does value truly mean and always being able to go back to that is something that I make sure that we talk about in that kickoff, in that little mini training and then you know, just things such as making sure we are all on the same page about a cross functional process flow using a value stream map. What is the idea of root cause analysis, things of that nature that we're going to be utilizing, employing within that project or that Kaizen event. And then usually we usually like to end off with like a fun game or something that will bring it to life for people that's outside of our real world. That's just something really simple. So I've done a couple of different things, but something fun, just something fun to get us started and get some teamwork going as well.

Talk a little bit about how you guys go about value stream mapping.

Yeah, you know, I keep it really simple. I keep it really simple to be getting to the highest level, key steps in the process and then figuring out what is the pieces of information we can pull into that. So an example of something that I thought was super helpful that I had when I was doing in my consulting career is we came up with an order fulfillment process at the highest level process and then went and we're gathering data so how long it was taking for each step of the process and then the wait times and I think that's just been so eye opening when you see the time that the order is moving through and just waiting in between and then the inventory that work in progress inventory when it's just sitting there and having that visualization is really eye opening to people and seeing it in a different way and understanding the total lead time. And when you see that total lead time it's usually just mind boggling to people. We also did that in our procurement process and we were able to have that as a good baseline and saying this is the total lead time from the point where we're putting in a request all the way through a po and it's interesting, it's a good place to start. I think it's a great visual.

So what's your approach then? So say we have a. Whether it's a current state, future state, whatever. We have a vision of kind of where we want to go. What is your next step? How do you keep moving through the process, the improvement process?

Sure. So we'll start with defining, so starting with that cross functional process flow. So we'll map out the process and I think it's really wonderful when we have all those cross functional partners in the same room. I've also done it through interview and through observation as well. But just hearing what everybody else is going through, that goes a long way. And then we get that to get that documented of this is how it's happening today. And when you see it in a cross functional flowchart also and all the pass offs between the different departments, that's where you see it becomes very evident. Okay, do we need so many approvals or do we need. You see that it's just doesn't need to pass off from one department to another department. I feel that that's a very useful tool and it gets everybody grounded.

Sure, sure. Okay, so keep going.

Yeah. So then usually what we'll do after that is say okay, here's our current state and what you have to really hold people saying, okay, they're ready to go right to the solution. Usually everybody's ready to go right to the solution. So then I love to. We'll do brainstorming of their issues. So that's a great opportunity to get everybody involved. Let's use the sticky notes method of course and then gather those into themes. So we'll say, okay, let's look at all those issues, everybody get them down on paper, get as many down. And then it's amazing to see how many common ones you see. And then what are those key themes? And we'll group and we'll agree upon these are the key themes of issues that we're seeing across the process.

Walk through the mechanics there a little bit Karen, because I mean some people, I mean as you know, facilitating like a brainstorming session, it's not always easy. Right. And using post it notes are a great way, kind of a nominal group technique, you know, no talking necessary at this point. Right. But talk a little bit about the mechanics of how you, how you work people through that? Like, how long does it take? Do they do any prep work before they come in or do you just come in and hand in some post it notes and some markers or talk about the mechanics of that brainstorming session?

Sure. So I think always just setting things up from the front and in advance is always good. So the expectation of what the process that we're going through, that methodology, think at this point, you're going to be, you're going to be giving, you know, be able to voice your opinions on your, on the issues that you're seeing, jot them down as you're going through your current state, be jotting them down. And then like if it's the night before and we're going to do the brainstorming the next day, the night before, remind everybody this is what we're going to do tomorrow. Then usually those what I'll do is that the square size, use the square size post it notes and sometimes all different colors. If there's different ways, I want them to think about it. So I started off working for Arthur Andersen and I always go back to what I learned back then around people process and technology. And so make sure that you're thinking and broadening your horizons to be thinking about. Okay, where are issues not only in process, but around people or do we have technology or data? Data is another good.

So do you use different color post it notes for the people process?

Right. So sometimes we'll use some different colors and then the larger, like a large. Then I'll go through and everybody's putting them up and usually I have the process flows along on the walls and then think through each step of the process. All right, get your issues up for this section now. This section. So it's not so overwhelming. But think about, either chunk it out based on steps of the big pieces of the process or like I said, think about if it's a smaller process, think about it and maybe in terms of people, process, technology, data, that kind of thing.

Got it.

And then as we're seeing it up, as I'm facilitating, if I have somebody else who's there with me, we'll start to like get an idea and saying, oh, I'm seeing, and then go through and start taking a piece at a time. So we're seeing, oh, I see a bunch of people talking about this one item. Do we agree this is the common themes? Everybody agree? Okay. On a more rectangular size, right? A bigger rectangular size. Post it. This is the theme. And then hopefully then you Come up with a smaller number of themes that then you can then even prioritize down from there what they think are the.

Biggest issues, various levels of affinity diagrams or whatever you want to call it. Right, yeah. Love it. I love it. Okay. Yeah, thanks for sharing that because a lot of times. Oh yeah. Brainstorming session and we're just kind of flipping about it, but boy, oh boy, you know, it can be tough. Especially the reason I love post it notes is you might have a personality in the room, right, who has a lot of great ideas, which is awesome. But you have some other folks who don't have such powerful personalities, but they might have awesome ideas and they just get drowned out. Right. And so the post it note is the great equalizer.

I say absolutely, absolutely. It's a great way for those who have the ideas in their head and they can just write it down and be able to get their opinions in.

Great. All right, so far we've mapped out our processes. We've begun to brainstorm some, you know, I guess maybe some potential root causes, some even, you know, I don't know if we're to countermeasures yet. I don't want to jump ahead, but. So let's keep going through the process. So what's next?

Right, so after we got the issues, we have the themes, we'll get into the measure piece. Right? So, and this still depends on each situation, like I said, is different, whether I have that we have the time because I find that to be the hardest piece to get to get to the data is the hardest part. So I think that there's two things we can do. Either if I'm doing it in a short amount of time, it may be just people's. Even the data might just be people's gut feelings about where do we see the biggest issues to be and then the other thing, or if we have a little bit more time, we'll then figure out what data we're going to gather, gather the data and come back and then show that in a value stream map or some sort of other types of data analysis. And with the idea of trying to get a good feeling of where the biggest opportunities might be before we get into that analyze phase. And of course, root cause analysis. Love root cause analysis. You may pick three or five of the biggest issues and do root cause analysis on those as well.

Talk about that process. Are you like Fishbone 5? Why? What's your favorite root cause analysis approach?

I think people can understand five why the best. I tend to utilize that, but I'LL share the idea of a fishbone as well. But five whys I think is really good. And one of the things I'll do very in that kickoff is get everybody comfortable with asking why. So what I say up front when I do a kickoff meeting, as I say we're going to do a root cause analysis and we're going to keep asking why. And don't feel as if us asking why is pointing a finger at you or saying you've done something wrong. We all have to say like, okay, again, I guess it goes back to my quote. We got in here because of various different reasons. You know, our history of growing, our history, a long history of different systems that we've had to cobble together. There's lots of different reasons we've got to where we've gotten to, but we know we need to get to a better place. So be comfortable with asking why is definitely a key tenant that I'd like to make sure everybody feels comfortable with.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, great. All right, well, let's keep going. So we define and measure.

Yeah. And then we define, we measure and we've gotten into the analyze and again then looking at that back to the current state and evaluating value add and non value add and really taking through step by step using that definition of value and thinking about the types of waste that everybody can say, okay, where are we starting to see value and waste in these processes as we move in to improve, as we move into the improved state, into the improved phase.

Talk about how you differentiate value add from non value add in a non manufacturing type environment.

Well, I think one of the most important things and the reason I absolutely love the definition of value, that it's what your customer will pay for. Right. Or that it's changing the form or function. So in most. And I'll start with that also as a key tenant right from the start. And the thing that I just love about Lean is it's so customer focused. So I always say put yourself in your customer shoes. And that customer could be an external customer or that customer could be an internal customer, depending on what process you're talking about. And think about what is going to be adding the most value to your customers, adding value to your customer, and what's not adding value. So I think that customer focus is key and I can really challenge is this value add or not? Like are we, you know, depending on what is, is your customer really truly willing to pay for that or is that something we absolutely need need to change the former function? Like is that, so it's, it works very well to be able to challenge that. This isn't just something again, that we've always done, but it's something that we truly need to, to make the process move forward.

Yeah, got it, got it. Okay, so are we ready for improvement?

Yeah. Everybody loves to get to improve, right?

Right.

So everyone at this point is chomping at the bit to get to improve. And one of my favorite things to do is start with an ideal state map. And what I'll say there is, we're starting with a blank sheet of paper. So here we have the current state, we have all those issues. Keep those. We talked about waste, we talked about value. But now is your chance to take a blank sheet of paper and go to your dream world, go to that lala land, whatever you want to call it. And you have no constraints. You can have any system you want. Your people will do what you need them to do. Right. Maybe you have customers or other third parties, they're doing what you need them to do as well. If you were to paint the perfect ideal state, what would that look like? Typically what I find is that if we can open our minds to that and get rid of all the constraints we have just built into ourselves, that we can get pretty close to that. We can truly get pretty close to that ideal state. So that's usually a very fun exercise for everybody. And that's where brainstorming and working as a team really comes in. And I've just had some really exciting opportunities where one person says one thing, one idea, and then they build upon that. The next person, oh well, what if we even took it a step further and took it a step, step further and we really truly find that we can get really close in our future state, can get really close to what we dreamed.

Now talk about. I know it varies obviously situation to situation, but from that defined that current state kind of mapping activities to the ideal state mapping activities, approximately how long does that take? Like how many is it days, weeks, months to get from that? Or are you doing this over like in an event? Like a three or four or five day event?

So I've done it both ways. I've done it both ways. I've done it in an event and it's usually from getting from define to improve is in four days.

Okay.

I've also done it as a project and that could be six weeks. It all depends on how much time people are willing to give you. If they're willing to dedicate a full week to it. It depends on if you're gonna. How much data you have, just, you know, what roadblocks may be in your way.

Yeah.

So it really, it really depends on how complex it is. But I think that it's something really honestly, if you, if you have people to. And I think it's just so worthwhile if you can get the right people involved in your project and have them dedicated to it, you can come out of this with a roadmap for improvement and things that we can really implement within a short period of time. So I'll talk a little bit more about how to get there as well.

Y. You know, I think sometimes we, we have a tendency in our, in our continuous improvement movement to make things harder than they really need to be. I remember a situation back when I worked for a cell phone manufacturing company and one of our suppliers was across the street and we having all these defects, we literally kind of worked through like almost like a DMA in the eye and like in like an afternoon, you know, I mean, literally. I mean we were writing on the boards and mapping and walking and talking to people and we identified opportunities like that afternoon for improvement. So yeah, these things don't have to take a long time.

No, absolutely.

Yeah. So, okay, fantastic. All right, well let's talk about that, about control and maybe execution and things like that.

Yeah. So I think let's kind of finish it off. So from the point where we have our ideal state, well then bring ourselves back to reality a little bit. Right. And get to a future state and then clear recommendations. Right. So the team will come up again, a little bit of a brainstorm and a discussion, but it pretty much becomes very self evident of these are the recommendations that we have and chunking them out and then we'll prioritize those. So we'll prioritize those recommendations. And I like to use really like a four box quadrant, which one of the accesses is your ability to execute or ease of implementation. So from high to low, so you're looking at the things that are easier to do, easier to implement, chunk them out in smaller bytes and then the other axis is the benefit or the value. Right. So you look up in that right quadrant are those quick wins, things that you can do and then things that might take a little bit more time and they build upon each other. And so the output of the initial business process improvement is a roadmap. And then what can we execute within the next 90 days, you know, for quick wins and then what are things that we can execute over the next three months? Six months. And looking out though further, going back to that, going to that ideal state, you always love the fact that you always have that vision and everybody is aligned on the vision of where we're trying to get to. And so for that area, we know what we're striving towards.

Nice, nice. So all these tools are awesome and very powerful and we all need to learn how to use them if we don't know already. But in the end, it is about people and sometimes people don't want to change and it's hard to change. It's hard to change processes, let alone people. Right. So talk a little bit about how you go about change management and how you work through the people side of this, this process.

Absolutely. So first of all, I just have to say having the right people involved and it being their ideas is a huge first step and to the buy in that you, that you need. But as I roll out any kind of change, so whether that be a process, change, assistance, change, I actually am trained in change management methodology, which I think is very simple from prosci. And prosci's methodology is looking. And there's the acronym they use is Adkar A D K A R. And I believe that's just. And I'll talk through what that is, but that's just a way of thinking about somebody's personal journey through change. So the A stands for awareness. So making sure people are aware of the change. Right. Making sure they know what we're doing and why we're doing it. And then the D is desire. So they understand again that why. And that's the need to bring in the managers and have good executive support and executive sponsorship so that we have the right people bringing everybody else along as well as those change champions right down there on the floor. Right. That those, those individual contributors that you hopefully had hand picked to be on your team. And then we get to the K, which is knowledge, and that's the training. And typically what I've found, unless you kind of really think through that emotional curve that people are going through, we jump right to the K and we jump right to the training. And we think, okay, well change management is just training. Well, we have to realize that people have to buy in. People have to understand why and how it's going to benefit them. All that, what's in it for me, all that has to be there before so that they feel ready to absorb the change. And then the A, the second A is the ability. So they need the time to practice. We need to kind of Reinforce. The R is reinforcement. The last bit in add car, the R is reinforcement. I think that's probably the most important piece. So checking in, making sure they're getting it, having measures to see that people that, you know that these changes are being made and it being important, just being important. I think that's just the most, that's the biggest thing. If it's important and people are looking at it, then everybody, I think, will want to change. If they're not seeing the need to change, they're. They're going to say, why should I do this? And they're going to resist.

So we'll go back to the D though, because to me that's the hardest part, the desire, getting people to want to change. Like, what are some approaches to that?

Sure. Well, I think again, the communication and seeing the, and communicating what the benefits are, having good sponsors and managers who are engaged and who are bought in and who are involved is also very important. Also, I think another great thing. And what I love about Lean and there's so many other similar methodologies, you know, if you look at design, thinking or even agile, having that small win. Right. So once people see again those, those quick wins, like if you pick out those quick wins, something that's just easy and, you know, but gives you great benefit, people see the benefit, see it for themselves, not just talk it. Yeah.

Get some momentum. Yeah.

And you know, then they become a believer. Then they'll become the believer. And I had a great project that I did, just loved it when I was working as a consultant and it was very evident, like you could see the problem. There was inventory just piled up in between each step of the process. You'd walk in, you just see piles, piles of inventory sitting there. And then once we streamline this, you didn't see that anymore. It was just flowing. And then that was like, okay, now I want to do that too. What? Can you come and help me with my area? Because, oh my God, let me see. I saw what you just did in that area.

Yeah.

Come help me in my area.

Yeah.

So publishing the wins, having them self evident, having more of the supporters, you know, it becomes a snowball effect.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. It reminds me of when we, when we teach people through TWI job instruction, one of the things we do is we explain the reasons why we're doing certain things, you know, like, you know, just, just that, that it's so important, you know, just is why. Why, you know, and love that word, why. Yeah. What's in it for Me, you know, honestly, people want to know what's in it for them and you know, make, make, fix what bugs you and you know, and that sort of thing. Right. So, yeah, very, very good. Well, this has been really good. I mean, what I really love about this episode is Karen, is that it's been very practical. You know, sometimes we talk theoretical, but that's why I could tell you're a serious practitioner. Right. So that's why I'm digging how you use your post, because that's the magic, right, is being able to facilitate those small details, asking the right questions.

I think that's a key piece too. Getting the answers to come from the people who are participating in your project and you're not telling them, but facilitating it. Right. So the answers come from them. I think that's a key piece as well.

Wonderful, wonderful. So maybe to wrap things up, Karen, why don't you maybe share some, just some tips, some advice maybe for that person who maybe they're just getting started with this whole lean movement and process improvement in general and then maybe they are in more of a transactional type environment. What advice do you have for them?

Yeah, and I think just really taking the step back and what I have found through my career and where, again, where I've said, where I've seen the most opportunity is in the space in the handoffs. Right. So thinking cross functionally and if you can understand, I like I go back to. It's the input, the process and the output. So if you can think broadly, I think that that's a skill and that's something where there's just a lot of opportunity. So. And then work, work with, work with others. So I think that that's one piece of advice I would give. And then secondarily again, just find something that again, we said fix what bugs you. I love that, I love that. You've heard you say that before, Ron. Fix what bugs you and just think through and getting others involved. And if you're just an individual practitioner out there and maybe you're not in a leadership level, but just talk to your manager about it or your leadership and say here I have this idea and I think it's just so powerful and just so much that can be done.

Love it. Yeah. Fix what bugs you. I can't take credit for that. I stole it from my friend Paul Akers. But it's a great saying. I love it.

All right, I like that one too.

Hey, Karen, if folks want to connect with you, what's the best way?

Sure. I think like, the best way to connect with me is on LinkedIn. I'm Karen Friedenberg and follow me. Yes, you may spell that last name. It's F R I E D E N B E R G. So you can look me up and just say that you heard me and connect with me, or you could also follow me. I, I do from time to time put out blog posts on various different topics. So you can follow me as well.

Great. Great. Awesome. All right, well, we'll link to everything in a show notes. So this will be, let's see, episode 336. So just go to GembaPodcast.com, look for episode 336 and we'll link to Karen and all that kind of stuff. So yeah. Well, thank you for coming on. It's been fun and it's always awesome talking to folks who are really going to the work, you know.

Thanks Ron. Thanks so much for having me.

Yeah, fantastic. All right, well, thanks again. Take care.

Thanks. Bye. Bye.

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