GA 337 | Making the Best of Bad Circumstances with Skip Steward

Hey, you've got to be willing to call your baby ugly, because sometimes it's an ugly baby. The reality is we tend to naturally want to read our news clippings, and we sometimes have people that want to tell us, yes, but when something's ugly, I need to know it's ugly. If we're not delivering high quality, I need to know it's not high quality.

Today I'm excited to welcome Skip Steward back to the show. Now, Skip's a good friend of mine, and I've known him for years, and, yeah, today we decided to jump on a podcast, and we had a general idea of a topic that we wanted to explore, which was kind of how to. How to, you know, best deal with bad circumstances. So, namely, whole COVID 19, like, what's the best way to, you know, keep continuous improvement moving forward and keep your businesses running as best they can. But we also wanted to be sensitive to the whole situation because obviously this is different. It's a different situation for each individual. Some people are far more impacted than others and so forth. So that was really the genesis of the whole conversation was just like, how to best move forward during this pandemic. But then, like normal, we got into all different types of topics. We got into things like confirmation bias and how to overcome that, and just really, just talking about lots of different human behavioral tendencies and how we can. How we can guard against those. So really, really fun. And I really, really appreciate Skip for his. His humility. He's one of the most knowledgeable people that I know, but he's also one of the most, if not the most humble person that I know. So always an honor to have Skip on. So show notes for this episode will be found over@gemba podcast.com this is episode 337, so just look for that over@gemba podcast.com episode three. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. Hey, Skip, welcome back to the show. How's it going, my friend?

It's going really good. Thanks a lot for taking a conversation and turning it into a podcast.

Yeah, well, I guess, what was it? A week or so ago, we were talking on the phone, and I don't even know what we were talking about, but one thing during our conversation, it always seems like one of us says something that resonates with the other one. And when, like, I think a day later or whatever, I. I reached back out to you, and you had said something during our conversation that really stuck with me. And actually, I think I shared it on LinkedIn even. And, and you said something to the effect of, you know, kind of a motto that you're. You're using at your, at your company is, you know, I think the phrasing that you used was don't let you know this current crisis that we're going through go to waste. And, boy, it really resonated with me. And obviously you're using it in the spirit of, you know, we. We have what we have. There's nothing we can, you know, it's here. Right. And so, like, the way that we react to that is, is going to dictate, you know, how our lives are rolling here over the next, however long this is going to be the situation. And I guess what I wanted was, and something that you and I were talking about before we hit record is that when we talk about, you know, COVID 19 or we talk about the pandemic or, or really anything and that it can sound perhaps, I don't know, insensitive to say, oh, don't let COVID 19 go to waste. Well, if someone's lost a loved one or something terrible has happened, they've lost their business or whatever it might be, I don't want it to, I guess I don't want it to sound flippant. Right. Or that we're dismissing that, hey, this is no big deal. Right?

That's right, Ron. We don't want to not overlook people suffering and their pain. We want to approach it with a humble, respectful and empathetic mindset. And the phrase that me and my team unofficially were using is don't let COVID 19 go to waste to drive us to be better at what we're doing. But at the same time, we want to make it clear that by using that cliche, we are not by any means overlooking the real suffering that people are feeling and dealing with, with their family and even their work situation. We have nurses and people that are just working tremendous amount of hours to care for others. So we definitely want to make sure we put it in the right frame.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So. So Skip, you've been on the podcast. We'll put it in the show notes all the, all the episodes that you've been on in the past, sometimes I have them at the ready, but I don't this time. But if folks don't, don't, don't, haven't listened to any of those ones or they don't know who Skip is. Give us a quick overview of Skip Stewart.

Well, I am the vice president and chief improvement officer for Baptist Memorial Health Care and Baptist Memorial Healthcare is a non for profit healthcare system headquartered in Memphis, Tennessee. We have 22 hospitals, around 180 clinics. We have a college of health science and a lot of other moving pieces. And that's my role within Baptist. Yeah.

Fantastic. So, Skip, we're going to kind of take that topic of don't let COVID 19 or really any crisis or something bad go to waste that. That opportunity to make things better, no matter the situation. But before we get into the heart of the topic, we, we. As you know, I know you listen to the show a lot.

Yeah, I do. A lot. I do. I listen to it very much, like.

Every episode while you're on the treadmill. Like everyone now, you got to listen to yourself and I know how much you love that.

That's right. Oh, yeah.

But, but do you have a quote that you want to kind of open up with?

Yeah, I do. And it's really been a quote that I've been thinking about every day. I tend to run experiments on myself and read this great book called Tiny Habits. And so when I hit the floor every morning, I quote Psalm 118 out of the Bible. Psalm 118, verse 24, which says, this is the day that the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it. Yeah.

Beautiful hymn too.

Yeah, that's right. It is. And it is. And it just, it reminds me of who I am. Yeah. And. And it reminds me of I have so much to be thankful for. And that should be my perspective going forth in the day.

Yeah. Hey, so I'm curious and I don't mean to get too personal or peel too many layers of the onion back on Skip, but so we're recording this in early August, so it's probably, I don't know where we're typically several, many weeks ahead on the podcast. So, so this might not come out right away here, but. And so by the time people are listening, I'm sure things will be different than they are because they seem to change daily, especially depending on different parts of the country. But talk about the whole, the whole, I don't know, like, what's been your, but what's been your experience with this, you know, this whole pandemic, you know, as, as, you know, it's golly, it's, it's August now and you know, going on, coming on to a year really, you know, before, you know, I think.

That'S a great question. I think that it's an evolving dynamic process. The, you know, it started off with these grumblings about something that was going on in China. But there was an attitude of, well, it doesn't really affect us. And then all of a sudden that evolved very quickly and to know it's coming to us. And the way that I think about it is a couple different ways. One is, it's almost like being. If you've ever played in the ocean, and before you know it, the water's at your knees, but you blink, and next thing you know it's up at your chest and you don't know what happened. And you realize you're maybe you're in trouble and you need to get to shore. You know, I think another metaphor that I've used is I'm in the forest and I don't know where I'm at, and I'm having to find my way out. So all that to say, you know, at first it was all of a sudden this thing's coming to where it got really bad. And I didn't have a full appreciation to how everybody's habits and routines, and I do mean everybody within our systems, were completely disrupted. So our Baptist management system is based on the science of habits and routines. All of those habits and routines, in addition to all of the other ones that they had in their jobs, in every department, everyone was disrupted completely. And I didn't have a full appreciation for that until maybe the water was already up at my chest. And so I've been studying and thinking a lot about habits, whether it be atomic habits or tiny habits, two great books, or even creating habits of myself. And then watching, trying to sift out all of the politics. Because unfortunately, this thing has become very political too, is that I've noticed different people have a different mindset. In other words, I think some people thought in May that once we opened up the country, I think they maybe didn't speak it, but they thought, well, this thing will just go away. Yeah, well, it's not going away. And then I've heard people speak as if, well, okay, by January 1st, we'll get back to normal. I personally, not that I'm a prophet, I think that's a little naive. And so I think we're having to learn to live within side of the pandemic. How to learn and function and walk and move forward, even though we want it to come to an end. And even though we want to do everything. And we are doing everything. I'm so proud of our leadership, so proud of them on everything they're doing to protect our employees and our patients. But at the same time we still have to continue to move forward. And so that goes back to leveraging this radical disruption to make us better. Because even a lot of friends that I've not only received a bunch of help from friends, as I've reached out to friends, both consultants and non consultants, there's been a little bit of an attitude sometimes from them of hey, when's this going to be over so we can get back to work.

Yeah.

And I think that mindset can be a little misguided, so.

Well, let's talk a little bit then about, you know, obviously your habits and everyone's habits have been, has been disrupted one way or another, some more than others, obviously depending on type of work you do. And some people are out of work.

Right.

They don't even, you know, so businesses are shot. So talk about though at Baptist then. I know you guys have been working hard to, you know, keep this continuous improvement ball moving forward. And you know, I can. You and I were speaking on the phone the other day. I would say in some ways here again, I mean Gavin Academy, maybe we're a little bit, I don't know, at an advantage already because we were sort of already this virtual learning organization. But, but even the way that we've gone about things have, have, have changed. And, and, and in some ways I think honestly are better. We were talking about Caught in a classroom and both of us have virtual versions of it. And I was telling you, I'm not so sure that our virtual cotton, a classroom that we're running now isn't actually better than the in person one just because of the experiential aspect. Part of it is a little bit, I don't know, more sophisticated if you will, than jigsaw puzzles. But. Right, but so talk about some of the things that you guys are doing and learning as you, you know, as you iterate.

Well, you know, so we started off right away with my boss challenging me. Let's see if we can make everything virtual. And, and you have to be careful with that word because now it's very popular and everybody, and I do mean everyone, claims to be virtual.

Yeah. Well, get on a zoom call when you're virtual. Right, right.

Well. And some people call virtual training what I would call death point.

Yeah.

And so, so the question is, am I delivering something for the student that enhances them and makes them better and what do I want to accomplish, you know, with what I'm. And you know, my good friend, and our good friend Mark Rosenthal even recommended, he said try to predict how they will answer the question. And so I'm using our training as an experiment. But at first we started off with working with Patrick Grop. We have a very long stand relationship with the TWI Institute, and we were helping him as much as he was helping us. And the objective at that time, back in April and May, was to make job instructions, job relations, and job methods, what we call the three legs to the TWI stool, to make them completely virtual. Well, JR wasn't that difficult. There were some people that were offering up very expensive solutions, and we used cash over or creativity over cash. We use things like Microsoft whiteboard and things that are free. JR was not hard at all. It was relatively easy to create virtual. JI and JM was much more challenging. But we treated them as an experiment with our KATA mindset. In other words, we planned on doing something, we expected something, and during the first iteration, something different happened. We determined what we learned, and then we pivoted. So we had, we had Pat, you know, sitting back. But it wasn't just even the technical or the delivery of the material. It was even technical things. I mean, we had standards that we thought, okay, if this is all in place, you know, everything will go good. On one of our very first jihad virtual classes, one of my directors, everything that could go wrong for her did go wrong, but she was able to pivot at the time. And, you know, you've heard the old commercial, don't let them see you sweat. Well, that was Katie. Katie didn't let him see you sweat. But both Katie and Madison, two individuals I work with that are just amazing, they have been willing to critique each other. And then also we've worked with the Institute to critique us. We've worked with them and critiqued their work. And so we've studied and adjust, studied and adjust, and we're still going. That wheel is still spinning on the ji, JM and jr. But I actually think we're delivering a better product. And then kata, our KATA workshop had been traditionally been three days, three hours each day, and now it's going to be reduced by four hours. And on paper, it looks like it's going to be a much better delivery of training. Now it's just a standard. We don't know if it'll work. But once we test it out, our hope is that we'll actually be delivering something much, much better than what we were doing pre Covid. And so we could use several examples of that. But our objective is not just to do virtual for the sake of virtual, but how do we do it and deliver something that's significantly better? So we've even done things like Gemba Walks where we have different people with WhatsApp. That way, if you have an Android and I have an Apple, it doesn't matter. And so we're encouraging. There's a lot of people that don't like webcams, so we're encouraging them. Hey, you have to have a webcam. But the thing that we're trying to make virtual, that I'm excited about, that probably got disrupted the quickest is we have an internal process called Baptist Management System Review. And basically what that is for the listeners that are familiar with a. A Shingo Institute type of examination. I happen to be a Shingo examiner. What we do is we take volunteers, CEOs, chief nursing officers, chief financial officers, directors, both nursing and not nursing, and we put them through an initial training and then we ongoing provide training to them and we take. They volunteer once a year to go out to another facility that's not their own to review it. I used the word review instead of audit because our industry is heavily audited. This is not an audit. This is just like your primary care checkup with your doctor. We're reviewing your management system in light of our 11 guiding principles that make up the Baptist management system. Things like respect and humility and empathy and flow and pull and quality at the source and so on. And so at the end of those three days, we. We write up and we deliver a report to the CEO that says, here are things that we saw that were really strong in light of those principles, and here are things that we saw that were really weak. Well, we have had tremendous feedback from these volunteers that this is one of the best networking and one of the best leadership development processes they've ever had. They're always in teams. We took that from our friend Rich Sheridan. So they're always in teams conducting the. The interview tracks together. So it's not one person's never by themselves. And so we just had. We hit a home run in spite of Skip, not really because of me. And, well, that got disrupted. I mean, we had two home runs in January and February. And people were just, you know, just saying, this is great. And all of a sudden Covid hit. And everyone said, what are we going to do? And I said. I said, we're going virtual. And so, so we've been working since March and April at developing our experiment. We call it our standard, and we're going to road test that standard in September on one facility. And on October in another facility, I expect there will be things that occur that we're not aware of, and then we're going to pivot. But there's a lot of things that we have to work on that are going to be difficult things like how do we still create that shared experience between John Doe and Jane Doe? Because now they're together, but they're only together by way of a webcam. And so we're also looking at doing virtual happy hours, because one of the things they also enjoyed is getting together at the end of every day and going out to dinner or whatever. Because we're such a large facility, a lot of people don't know other people at other facilities, even though Skip knows them, because I used to travel all throughout the system on a regular basis, they didn't know them. So we've been working on creating virtual communities. We created a WhatsApp user group that's only for those ambassadors, and we've interviewed every one of them, and so they've all gotten to know each other. And so we're doing a lot of things to try to create a virtual community, to try to create a rich experience, but we don't know. We're going to find out in September and October if what we think will happen actually does happen. Yeah.

You know what's been interesting, what you're describing is like, you know, we're all passionate about scientific thinking and all the rest of it, and it's like the world is a giant experiment right now. Right?

That's right. That's right.

And having the ability to know that or having the. I don't know. What's the word? Having the. I don't know. The benefit of knowing the importance of knowing how to experiment and being okay with not knowing. I think that's what so much of the angst in the world is, is that people want to know what's the answer. Well, we just.

That's right.

We just don't really know, you know, what the answer is.

And the information changes. It's so dynamic, and we've really used our improvement KATA mindset as we went through this. But one of the things that's probably been the most rewarding thing that's happened for me is I had so many people, so many of our ambassadors, and even people that are not our ambassadors, we call them the BMS ambassadors. The thing I just explained a few minutes ago with the. That is the reviews, but both the 81ambassadors and the non ambassadors, I had so many folks reaching out to me saying, skip, thank you so much for the Baptist management system. I wouldn't have wanted to go through this clinic without it. Well, that's incredibly rewarding comment, but I always want to say tell me more. Right? This is what I found that was interesting about that. When I said tell me more, it was overwhelmingly consistent. It was, I said, well, can you be specific on what you mean? And every single person that reached out and made that comment to me said they were specifically talking about TWI job relations. They were, every single one of them, they're saying thank you. They said all I could hear in my voice was get the facts, get the facts, get the facts. Because what a lot of people don't realize is that everything is so dynamic even within the hospital because whether the rules of CDC are changing or whether there's just so much information constantly changing. And that's why I've been so proud of our leadership and our CEO and my boss, Dr. Paul DePriest, and the things that they've done like putting up command centers in place immediately and putting in, we put in process on how a patient and how team members would navigate through our healthcare system and we put revisions on those and we studied and adjusted them. I remember when we were putting some of those together, I think we had something like three 30 minute meetings every day for weeks and weeks where we were just running cycles. And a lot of these process have version 27 at the bottom of them now because we went through so many cycles of testing them. And so. But there's other things in our Baptist management system, like I tend to get excited when someone says that can't be done. Well now you're saying sick them to a dog. What do you mean that can't be done? And so we're working on our version of a Kaizen event that we call Get Better Jumpstart. And how do we do it virtually? How do we lead and work with a team virtually? And so we believe it can be done, but we're trying to make sure every element of our, of our work is delivering at a very high level. And to do that you've got to be willing to have people around you that, that are willing to give you critique. And, and then also this is just a phrase, just a southern phrase for all your, your audience. Just a phrase I use always say, hey, you've got to be willing to call your baby ugly because sometimes it's an ugly baby, you know, sorry, you know, but, but the reality is we tend to naturally want to read our news clippings and we sometimes have people that want to tell us, yes, but when something's ugly, I need to know it's ugly. If we're not delivering high quality, I need to know it's not high quality. So we're trying to be very cautious and not just be happy that we're doing something virtually.

Yeah, beautiful. Hey, I'm going to change the direction a little bit. One of the things that I'm fascinated with is even before COVID really, really interested in just human behavior and why we do things the way that we do them. And one of the topics or one of the human behavior things that's always interested me is the various types of biases. So, like cognitive or confirmation bias as an example, and cognitive dissonance. Right. When you're, you know, trying to make excuses for your bad behavior or whatever it is. Right?

Sure, sure.

What are your. How do you like confirmation bias? Let's just take that one. So, you know, if you want to go buy a red F150 because you think they're awesome, you're going to. All you're going to do is just go seek out articles on the Internet about how amazing Ford F150s are. Right. And you're not going to dare try to find anything bad about it, you know, because we want to seek confirmation for our beliefs. How do you, what, what are you, what are your. And I'm sure you have your own confirmation bias, like I do, like everyone does, right?

Sure.

What do you think is the right way, especially in these turbulent times? Here we are in a, you know, in an election season, and that's makes it even worse. Right. Depends on which channel you watch on tv. Right. Which. Which bias you want to get. You know, it's like, how do you, how do you, you talk about being in the forest and can't see which way? Like, how do you navigate that? What's your approach?

Well, yeah, the way I've been navigating the forest is, you know, to quote a little Beatles song, I get a lot of help from my friends. Right. Is that I'm so thankful for the lean community and I can't call out enough people. But I mean, one of the things that I have done from the very beginning until today, since this pandemic hit, was I reached out from friends like that have been on your show many times, people like Rich Sheridan and Karen Ross. And I learned about Jeff Koss on your show and called him, and he was so kind and gracious. And even that, as an example is. I'm asking People's perspectives and their opinion on something very specific. Does that mean I always take that opinion and that perspective at whole heart? No, I don't. I try to sift it. I try to reflect on it. I try to think about it because they're someone I trust and they're trying to give me their very best perspective. Hey, you should consider going this way or make sure you watch out for this cliff or watch out for this rock, to use that metaphor. But at the end of the day, I've got to make the decision. Right. I've got to say, that makes sense. That makes sense. However, this. Right. And once again, I want to be comfortable being uncomfortable because I don't find my own personal identity in how much I know about Lean or Management Systems or Kata or. You fill in the gap, right? That's not the identity. I'm not an expert. I'm not that. Anyone that knows me knows I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, you know? And so I'm trying to glean from different people that I respect their perspectives. Karen Ross was one that helped me right away on just even getting comfortable with using WhatsApp. And you know how Karen is. I was like, hey, Karen, you know, you think we can talk about this? She goes, how about I just call you right now?

Right, Exactly.

Okay, okay. You know. You know, it's funny because, you know, you laugh at it. You're like, okay. And it was just because I'd never even heard of the app, Right?

Yeah.

And so it all of a sudden made me uncomfortable. But whether it be Karen or whether it be Rich Sheridan or whether it be, you know, my friend Sylvain up in Canada is. I'm trying to ask somebody that I really trust a perspective on something, and then I'm trying to stop and listen. And rarely do I take 100% of anybody's comments. I'm trying to glean through that. And now that doesn't mean I don't make a lot of mistakes. Sometimes I say, you know what I should have learned that I should have known that my boss is a great example of that. He's the greatest leader I've ever had. And he argued. He allows me to argue with him and disagree with him, and he'll say, what do you think of this idea? And I'll say, I don't really like that idea. Many times I discover that he was right and I was wrong, but he lets me discover that on my own time frame. So I guess that I'm not sure if I'm answering your question or not.

Yeah, no, I mean, hey, I don't think there is an answer.

Right.

I mean, I think it's seeking out other, Other, Other. Other. Other perspectives. Being respectful of differences. Right. Differences of opinion. Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like trying to, you know, debate religion. You know, it doesn't really do any good. Right. But I think sometimes maybe a better approach is here's what I believe and why I believe it. Now I'm interested in what you believe and why you believe it, and then we could just leave it at that. We don't have to agree.

Right.

But at least you know where I'm coming from. And I know where you're coming from.

No, you know, I love that. I love that comment. There was a gentleman, he passed away a couple of years ago. He's a theologian named R.C. sproul. That the mission of their organization was so that people would know why they believe what they believe. Right. And so I really like that a lot. And you take that into our world. Someone might say, you know, Skip, I'm a big believer in failure mode effect analysis. Okay. And Skip. And Skip might say, I don't get it doesn't seem that special to me. You know, and the point is, it may just be that, yeah, I just hasn't come about to something that is that I've found a need for.

Right.

And then maybe you could, maybe you could give me an insight from a different perspective.

Yep.

Well, so let me build on what I just said. When I was in Japan back in October, learning from Mr. Kado, I unconsciously went over there thinking that I kind of know this subject of standardization. And within a couple days, this gentleman that was 44 years with Toyota educated me that you don't know as much as you think you know, Skip. And so ever since then, I've been on this kind of aha. Realization that the power of standardization is so much more powerful than we give credit for.

Yeah, it is. I mean, you could argue it's the most important aspect. Right. Without standards, there's chaos, really.

Well, it really is. And what we've done is we've turned it into six questions. It was influenced and inspired by a blog that our friend Mark Rosenthal wrote. But instead of getting into all the jargon, we created six questions just to start a conversation around standardization. Because if you think about it, standardization is connected to everything. It's connected to creativity, it's connected to experimentation. Every high level goal is ultimately connected to a Standard at the front level work.

What are the six questions?

Well, the six questions, they're called six starter questions, which implies that there are other questions. If you can't answer the questions, absolute. But the first question is, do you have a standard for your outcome? In other words, do I know what I want the outcome to be? Then the second question is, is there a clear standard for the method that will achieve the standard outcome? So those are two different types of standards, right?

Yeah.

And so if you can't answer that, clearly there's other questions. But then question three says, are the conditions required for success present? The fourth question says, can you execute to the standard without meaningful variation? So think about our friend Dr. Wheeler and process behavior charts and some of that stuff. And then question five says, was a standard method followed and were the results meaning the outcomes as expected? And then the final question says, does everything work okay, but you want or need to do better Always?

Yes to that one. Right?

Yeah. Right. But. But I think it's amazing when I talk to some very intelligent people, how they look at standards completely different. In other words, I was talking to a brilliant, used to be a trial lawyer and he's an executive within our system and I asked him to read the document and we're working on testing lines. You know, people drive up to get the COVID test and he said, you could tell there's a nervousness to him. He's like, okay, Skip, but. So we're never allowed to change the standard. And I said, no, no. Why, why would you think that? He goes, well, he didn't know. In other words, there's these built in presuppositions that people put inside their mind.

Yep. Yeah. The standards are handcuffs, you know.

That's right.

Yeah. They're not. Yeah. Wow, that's good. Well, we've been all over the place, my friend. We've. This has been fun.

Yeah.

Sometimes we, sometimes we had all this, this very, very precise plan. This is where we're going to go. I'm going to ask you this, you're going to say that, but we didn't have that today.

What I think is funny is ever since we started talking about the cognitive side, I'm hearing myself talk echoed back at me. And so as we're talking about experimenting through obstacles, I'm dealing with an obstacle as I speak.

Well, I don't hear it. Hopefully. Yeah, everybody, everybody's listening in their car like, yeah, we hear it right now. Skiff, we're with you. Greg will clean it up. Don't worry.

Good, good, good, good, good, good. So. But, but, you know, I, I. But I always. I know I say this each time, but I want to say it. I'm so thankful for your podcast. And all joking aside, the reason I do listen to everyone and I share them with people is because I'll be normally on a machine doing some exercise. And for me, let's just use an example. You were talking to Jeff Koss, and Jeff Koss talked about when they had to switch over to making ppe, that all of a sudden a company that had been doing lean for decades all of a sudden stopped. Stopped doing some of their habits and they started badging stuff. And I remember I said out loud, I said, oh, that's brilliant. And I instantly sent you a message. And you put me in contact with Jeff.

Yeah.

And now Jeff and I are talking on a regular basis.

Yeah. That's fantastic. Well, it's our pleasure. I mean, this is. I don't know. I love doing this podcast. So you talk about an experiment of experiments, but it started a few years ago and we just haven't stopped. So. But we keep learning, and I keep learning in every episode. That's why. That's why I love it.

I love it.

So. Oh, anyhow, my friend, well, listen, thank you for. For carving out some time. I know you got a lot going on over there and sure appreciate your insights. Maybe let's wrap things up with maybe. I don't know if you got any. Any kind of final words of wisdom that you want to leave folks with and then definitely tell how people can connect with you, Skip.

You know, most people can connect with me through LinkedIn it also, I would tell them if they have an interest in some of the Baptist Management System stuff, they can go out to YouTube and just type in Baptist Management System, and there's a bunch of homegrown videos there. But, you know, the biggest thing I would say is try to be an encouragement to your healthcare friends that are out there. Some of them are dealing with some really tough situations. Most people that got into healthcare, they got into it because they're calling and they're having to deal with some really bad situations during this pandemic. And. And as they try to comfort patients and do the work that they've been called to do. Yeah. So I would just encourage folks to be an encouragement to them. Yeah.

Fantastic. All right, well, Skip, thanks again. So this is episode 337, so folks can go to gemba podcast.com 337 and we'll link to all the other episodes that we've done with Skip over the years, and I'm sure we'll do many more down the road. But thanks again, my friend. Good chatting with you.

Thank you.

Take care. And yeah, we'll speak again soon, I'm sure.

All right. I appreciate you, Ron. Bye.

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