GA 349 | Lean and Sports with Richard Henderson

The global talent trends are showing that the employee experience is number one and 2000s is about putting people first. So it's no longer like, we've got this great process. Let's fit people into it. You want people to buy in, right? You're going to have to give them opportunities to weigh in and do other pieces of it.

Today I'm excited to welcome Richard Henderson to the show. Now, Richard has a really interesting background. He's originally from Scotland and has played a lot of soccer, a youth and came to America and he actually played professionally in Europe and then came found his way into America and did some studying, some more playing and ended up coaching. But now he's also, he's got introduced to leadership and he's involved in higher education. And so he's got a really diverse background, but he's been practicing lean and applying it in a number of different ways. So that's really what we talk about today on the show. Just kind of like how he's been able to lean these lean principles in a variety of ways. And so we actually spent quite a bit of time talking about the way he, he's also a coach of a player coach on a kind of a semi pro soccer team right now. And so here he is, you know, with these really established soccer players who many of them are coaches themselves and he's coaching them now. And so he's been utilizing various lean tools and concepts as you'll hear on Making the team Better. And apparently the team really good to begin with. And so it's like, well, why do we don't fix what's not broke, right? And so he had to find a way to encourage these folks to try different things. And so, yeah, much of the, the podcast is, is centered around those, those types of stories. So really fun episode. And plus he's got that cool Scottish accent that I, that I always envy with my Ohio, Texas sort of weird accent. I don't know what I have these days, but. But no, it was a lot of fun. So show notes for this episode@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 349. Again, gembapodcast.com, look for episode 349. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. Richard, welcome to the show. How are you?

I'm doing great, Ron. Thanks for having me.

All right, well, thanks for coming on so well. Listen, Richard, before we jump in, we like all of our guests to share a quote. So do you have one that you want to Use.

Yeah, absolutely. The one I like to use to play around Lean is from Marcel Proust, who's a French novelist. He said the real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands, but seeing with new eyes. So I think we could probably relate to that in terms of seeing things. The Gemba walk process. But it's always a good one of having a beginner's mindset for me and always seeing things with. With fresh eyes, even if you've seen it a thousand times, I think it speaks volumes.

Yeah. Fantastic. So where are you calling in from.

Today, Richard Bellingham, Washington, which is like an hour and a half north of Seattle. It's actually closer to Vancouver, Canada, than it is to Seattle. So, yeah, Pacific Northwest.

Yeah, I know it very well. I've been there. In fact, one of my business partners, John Miller, his office used to be in. I always say it wrong, but like, I say it fast, so it kind of masks my incorrect pronunciation. But Mukilteo or whatever, which I think is close, isn't it? Mukilteo is close to that.

Yeah. Mukilteo. Yeah, it's close.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's the office out of there, and then I've been up there to visit with Paul Akers. And do you know Jeff Koss?

I know of him, yeah. We're connected online. And yeah, yeah. I don't know if not trusted me, but yeah, I know he is. Yeah.

Yeah. So Koss Taylor is, I mean, relatively close? I believe so, yeah. Great, great, great lean folks up in that part of the country. So you guys are doing a lot of great work. Well, Richard, why don't you tell us about your background and how you first got introduced to continuous improvement and then tell us what you're up to these days.

Sure. Again, I'm from Scotland originally, so I grew up. Was born, grew up there, lived there for 20 years, and then I was actually playing professional soccer there for three years. Model is different. More of the European model where graduate high school earlier, and there's a lot more onus on kind of professional clubs and all that. So I played professional soccer for three years. I was never going to be, you know, David Beckham or Messi or anybody like that. So I wanted to go to college, and I just wanted kind of a new adventure. And just by chance, one of my agents got me connected with an agency who did recruitment out in the US and so I got soccer scholarship to play in Illinois. So I did that. That was in 2008, and really enjoyed it and didn't think I was going to stay, but then fell into other things. I started working for facilities and other places, student affairs. And I went to the University of Nevada for grad school and I got my master's degree in leadership there, which was fantastic. Really enjoyed the University of Nevada, Reno. That's where I met my wife. And then I took a job up in Bellingham at Western Washington University. I'm in charge of the housing process here. I also am an adjunct professor in the Leadership Institute of Leadership. I really enjoy that and that's where I'm at currently. But in terms of the lean journey, higher education is all process. It's all process. We love the process. We love to rewrite things. And there's a lot of interdepartmental communication with people, staff and faculty. So it's actually on a drive with a friend of mine. He's in manufacturing and he got sent on a lean course. This was I think two, three years ago now. And the way he talked about it, so many people and myself, I've been to conferences and trainings and webinars and they're like, oh, that was okay. And you forget about it, right? The next week or two weeks later. It's never sustainable. But the way he explained it, he was like, this is a game changer. It's life altering. It makes me think of everything completely different. And so the way he explained it, we got talking that it really can be implemented anywhere, right. And that it's into government and healthcare and all these other places now. So what I did was I looked, looked around my area and I ended up setting up in Seattle and did my yellow belt and green belt down there with Shannon Barrett, who got his own consulting and works for me in Six Sigma usa. And he was great. And so I did that week, that week with them, got certified, and then I started looking more and more into it and I brought it into my department and got connected with more lean individuals at the university. And in town, Jeff Gray's got Six Sigma TV up here and started getting connected with people in the area. And then that was led to helping some of my buddies who were doing startups and getting new positions. And then I got referred and then next thing it kind of just snowballed into like a small time private consulting gig. So I've been doing that for a couple of years now. And I was actually just at the Lean Transformation Conference a couple weeks ago up here for Results Washington. And it's just, yes, it's been great. Connected with everybody. So I'd say during hours in higher ed. I'm still working in here and the way I'm teaching leadership, I've run in a class on organizational operation, efficiency and I've developed a lot of lean principles in there and people have loved it. And so I've also just partnered that. So I think the main thing maybe differentiates me or is a little different is I did the leadership training and certification and teaching first and then incorporated the lean. Where what I'm seeing now is a lot of people are realizing they need the leadership component into lean tools to make it sustainable. So that's a really cool pattern that I've been able to see as I'm getting out there by myself.

Nice, nice. So are you still involved with. You know, you mentioned being a professional soccer player. So what's your involvement in sports these days?

Yeah, I still play. I play and coach for a semi professional soccer team. I also coach high school up here. We were state champions the year before. I think we get it this year too. Just because the season got cancelled because of COVID So we get a little asterisk, I think for it. Yeah, no, I coach there and I do a lot of coaching in the area and so we travel, we play in the Pacific Northwest Conference and so it's really a lot of guys who have played professional before, ex college players. So I'm busy but I do a lot of coaching. I really enjoy aspect of it keeps you busy.

So have you been able to take advantage of some of your lean knowledge and you know, way of thinking as it pertains to the way you coach?

Yeah. That's funny. You know, it was a complete. I mean it gave me a lot more tools and language. But you know, everyone talks about as a coach what's your coaching philosophy and what's your playing style. And you know, you hear those questions and it's very fashionable these days, right. Kind of golden why of Simon Sinek, which he's brought in and I just. It gave me the language and it's funny, it did actually change. For example, we play indoor and outdoor so we're actually better in the indoor environment. So it's the Major League Soccer League. I would play under that. And one of the things that I really looked at was how do I. The biggest thing I think that helped me was the elimination of wasted talent and utilization of kind of resources. So we actually changed the whole situation from man to man to zone. Just being that we're the only team who do that now. But looking at it was. I don't need people wasting resources when their talents on the offensive end of the pitch. Let's leave them there as much as possible. Let's put them in the right places that they can utilize their talents as often as possible. Where it's so much easier just to play a man to man. Right. Kind of like basketball or hockey. So we, I found a way to do it zonally and the guys push back. They're like, this is never going to work. Too much communication. But what we found was people had less time on the field, but the time they had was more productive and the goals went up and all that. And we won and broke a couple of records this past year. So if it's all down to that, you've got to have good players. But it really did. It makes me look at things different and like I quoted at the start, just looking at everything with fresh eyes, right. And how do we make this better? And I think that we've been relatively successful. But the biggest thing I want to look at is you don't have to lose to learn. I think a lot of people think it's the coach has to get fired or it has to be a catastrophe or you have to lose a game, but you can learn while you're winning. And we were winning before, but we just won by even more by implementing some of these playing styles. So that's also been something. Just that continuous improvement. Right. Which you know all about.

Yeah. You know, I'm a big fan of. I mean, well, I'm not a. I don't like the team in particular just because of. I grew up in Ohio, so I'm a big Ohio State Buckeye fan. But I've always looked up to guys like Nick Saban and these guys, you know, preaching their process. Right. And, and that's, that's, that's got such a, a lean feel to it. Right. Like, just win that moment and, you know, do your very best at that moment. And it's almost like these. Take these small steps and iterate and learn as you go. And that seems to be what separates the best teams and best programs. Again, they also have the best athletes. Let's not kid ourselves. Right? But, but, you know, there is something to having that mindset, that lean, I would call it a lean thinking mindset where we're constantly trying to get better each and every day. And yeah, it's, it's fantastic.

Yeah.

So talk a little bit. Talk a little bit. I'm curious now about your early journey with, with lean. I know you've been at it for a few years now, but in the very beginning, when you very first learned about it, like, what did you. What did you think of it? Like that. I'm always curious kind of that. That the beginner of mine, like, were you, were you skeptical of it or were you kind of open to it or maybe a mix.

It was a. I mean, I think through full honesty, right? It's not cheap, right? To go through the certifications and stuff. You do it properly. It's not cheap. And it's a big investment in time. And there was a piece of me that was like, this is just common sense, right? Like just, just put your socks in the sock drawer, just organize them, you know, because that was some of the examples. But then obviously you scale up and you scale up, right? And I think looking at it was until I got more into pieces of overproduction, weighting, extra processing, motion, inventory, like really dissecting to how this plays out and day to day, that I started seeing it a little bit more. But I also. The biggest piece, I think that my takeaway was if you don't have a successful leadership transition, they call it, you know, the administrative champion or the project champion. You know, if you don't, it's not only just to have that, they've also got to have a lean mindset as well. And if it's just stuck with one person, the characteristics of that, it can really die out. There's people in my work who bought into it and other people who think they're. They think they have it. And I'm like, you don't. You're not lean, you're particular. You like it a certain way and it's really organized in your head. But how is it set up for people, process, perspective? So I would say, yeah, I was skeptical and I was like, okay, this is nice and gives you some language and some nice Japanese terms that makes it, you know, sound good. But it wasn't until I started playing around with it in practice and seeing the results in terms of my time getting better. The people I supervise, they were starting to see it. I mean, one of the biggest ones we did was I incorporated like A3 reports, particularly in like graphic for end of quarter cycles and reports. And that sped so much things up. And now they start. They've kicked onto that to the people they supervised. So now we never really see any more Excel spreadsheets. It's all A3 reports and A3 graphics. And that's just been. That's been a small cultural change. I Think I've seen. And people have learned how to do it, so they didn't really know where it came from, but they really enjoyed it. And I think it's really improved pieces. We have. Yeah, definitely skeptical, Ron, at first. I think, like most. And I wouldn't say I'm completely. I'm like a Lean Master or enthusiast. You know, I've talked to some people who just absolutely die by it. But I see us getting bogged down in the weeds sometimes. You know, I was talking with a colleague and they were like, well, there's actually only seven wastes, not eight. And I was like, okay. And, you know, it seemed just to get. From what I'm seeing now, and the last conference I was at, People's Knowledge is a mile long, but only an inch deep. You know, they've got so much. They've got so much. Like, we know the terminology and this, but, you know, I went to a session and they were talking about emotional intelligence, and then they just skipped over it, you know, and I was like, that's a whole other beast in itself in the work, in that. And you can't just say, hey, lean's great, but emotional intelligence is important. I think we're skipping over things, and I think it goes both ways. I think people are minimizing the Lean impact, but they're also minimizing the leadership and emotional intelligence part that's needed. And they're two completely different skill sets. I think we have to give both of them the credit they need and the time to be experts in that field. So. Because I'm certainly not, I'd say, on the lean side, and I think that's what's opposite is I'm growing. I'm growing myself in the Lean, and I'm knowing what works, but the leadership component and the cultural aspect, that's what I've always worked in and where my specialization, I guess, came in.

Yeah, no, it's. It's so funny you said, oh, there's only seven ways or whatever. You know, that is a. That's a. I hate to call it a problem, but, you know, it's. It's been around forever. That is this like Lean. Lean versus Six Sigma somebody, you know, so people would get all excited about, you know, one's better than the other and being critical of someone who, who does. Who practices one way and not another. And my, my, my thought on the matter has always been just, let's just learn as much as we can and call it whatever you want. I don't care if you call it lean or six Sigma or continuous improvement or I don't know. But, but yeah, there's a lot of purest attitude sometimes that seeps in. Not just in lean, I guess, anywhere. Right. In any movement sports and. Right. I mean, you know, I'm sure there's many, many, many soccer folks out there around the world who would be critical of you of doing his own, you know, you know what I mean? So. Because the one way right they believe is right. But yeah, having that open mind and being willing to learn and experiment, I think is again what separates the, the, the, the winners from the losers in the long run. So. Yeah, well talk a little bit now about, you know, being a, a newer kind of, you know, newer to lean movement. What's it? You know, I just, I just want to hear more about like, how things are going for you. That's why I was excited to kind of start this series of folks who are, you know, been at it for a few years. But, you know, what's it been like and what are you looking forward to, let's just say over the next 12 months, like, where do you want to see lean, you know, impact your work and your, your sport, your teams and all on all the rest of it?

Yeah, good question. I mean, it's, I'll be honest with you, it's quite, it's quite daunting, you know, and as a newer getting a professional going into it and there's like, you mentioned a couple of people up here in my area who are great at it. And I think I did have honestly a sense of impostorship syndrome as I kind of ventured out and started telling people, you know, like, oh, I'm a lean professional and I can help you with that and you need to pay for that. Particularly in Covid times. The guiltiness of feeling of asking like there was a client. I just felt that I couldn't ask for the money. And I was like, I just don't know if I, I am providing a good enough service. And it was actually them who told me, like, no, absolutely. And what I realized was if they could solve it, they would have. And if they had the skills to do it, they would have. And a lot of it is solving the people problem first, as you're well aware. I hear a lot of culture and the why. And we talked about this before, but that's really where I think the global talent trends are showing that the employee experience is number one. And the 2000s is about putting people first. So it's no longer like, we've got this great process, let's fit people into it. We're going to have to. If you want people to buy in, right, you're going to have to give them opportunities to weigh in and do other pieces of it. So I think that's been a benefit. Where I like to see lean go is we talk about people and respect and that, but I don't know if I've really seen it. I think we're too quick to sometimes jump into value maps in process and bottlenecks and reduction cycle time and that you've already lost half the people you're working with into that, particularly because you're really rinsing a process that they've probably developed in the start of it. But it's been, it's. I think for me it's been found in my niche and where can I. Where can I do my best work? And I think an area I've managed to tap into just by kind of luck, really, particularly with what's going on right now, the jump to more online. Right. So people using Miro and Jira and other pieces of it. There's definitely components of online work like agile. You joked about the Lean versus whatever. I saw someone talk about Lean Agile the other day and I was like, okay, I'm just going to start putting two different methodologies together. But there is pieces of that. Or how do we do the work online and how can we consult across state and international lines? I know people have been doing it for years, but there's a lot of newer ways and technologies to do it. The unlimited whiteboards and the other skill sets that we can have. But how do you also do that with the people as well? So that's where I think we can get better at updating some of our knowledge and resources and examples. I think there's a lot of quality people out there who are lean professionals, but are really basically just regurgitating the same content from the 70s and the 80s. And if lean is continuous improvement, then that content still has to advance as well while also being true to the base of it. So I think it's a yes and both for that. But yeah, I still haven't gotten over the impostorship, I guess because there's so many great people out there who have it. But I just have to be clear on what I can deliver and what I can bring. And I think I've come to terms with that a little bit better recently.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious to hear, do you have any More examples of how you've been able to use lean. I think a lot of, of people are always interested in sports and, you know, folks dislike different success stories. I know you mentioned, you know, more of the human side of it, you know, and seeing the talent and allowing people to do their best and. But can you think of any other kind of examples of where you've been successful with lean?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I stick, I'll stick with, you know, what I'm doing with sports. Because it is hard to manage a group of semi professionals, I joke, is the hardest because they all think they know everything and you only get a little bit of time to put in, right? They're not good enough to be professional, but they're too good to be amateur. And so it's. And everyone's got opinion. I mean, there's people on my team that they coach full time for a living that's either in a youth club or an academy or somewhere else. And so getting them to see that there's something that you've been doing for years is wrong. An example I took when we kind of started the season, I gave them kind of the project charter, I guess, is how we would explain it. But I said the two things we're looking for now is respect and continuous improvement. And for them, they were like, that was new, right? How is respect for each other respect for the game and how continuous improvement? And there was a couple as I started to do this kind of culture shift, there was a few of the regular players who had been there for five, six years or so. I mean, same amount of time as me, even longer. And they were struggling with, well, why change it when we've still been successful, right? And it's a good, kind of a good question. But my response to them was because they were saying, I've got five, six years experience, I don't need to do this or I can this or whatever. And what I was saying was, do you truly have five, six years experience or do you have one year, five times? I think it's the latter, right? Because if it was the former, we would be building on that and growing and really getting better. And the reality is we have to do it because the league is going and league was getting better. And you can see that in our stats. We're still winning, but we weren't winning by bigger margins and we actually lost the year before final, which is the first time we did it in recent history. So. And I had to move, move some of those people out. And I think that's where some of the, you know, Dan Ingles tell you it's never the process. Right. Well, in this case, never the people. Right?

Never the people. Yeah.

Sorry. Never the people. Yeah, yeah. Never the people. Well, in this case, you know, I said, well, maybe is the people. The process is you can't. You can't do it and it's not, you know, you're not willing to do it. Right. And I think of that, that had to be. Had to be said. And they transitioned out by themselves, and some of them came back and bought into it. But once they had to see the results first, right? Of course, they had to see the increase in time, but it was because it was a completely different system when I was successful with the old one as well. And so I guess a couple of things that would be examples of it, right? So if you look at the indoor season, for example, so if you think of hockey where they have line change, right, it's the same. It's the same in our game. So we always played in lines of two. So it'd be like Ron and Richard, you two are partners, is playing in the defensive line. So I would be on, I would jump off, you'd come on, and vice versa. So I was looking at, and I was trying to look at it through a lean mindset, was, okay, am I getting the best at Iran? Every time he goes on and there's times that I would go on and I'd get stuck on for a long shift, maybe get a little knock or something, I'd come off, and by the time I went back on, I wasn't really ready to do what I needed to do. So I kind of just coasted for that shift. That was really my breather. I'd come back off and then get back on. So I transitioned to going. Instead of lines of two, we went to lines of three across the whole team. And that was something that had never been done before. And a lot of the guys were like, well, you're cutting into my time, right? You're cutting into how much time I have on the field. I said, yeah, right. But the time you have is going to be more effective and more efficient, and you're going to get to do that partnered with the kind of zone. So our top scorer, for example, was really frustrated with that, but he had his highest goals ratio ever, even playing in this line of, because he didn't have to do as much defensive work. And when he came on, he was ready to go. And that all came from eliminating waste, looking at how we can make the process better. I would never have did that if I hadn't went through kind of the lean journey. And so that was a, that was a big culture shift. And it's funny because now it's the norm to play threes. Like the guys don't know any different. Different, right. They're just like, well, nobody could play twos. That's insane. And I'm like, we did that for years.

Yeah. Wow, that's a really interesting. So did you, did you. How were you able to experiment with that? Just like in a, in a, maybe in a game against an opponent that you were, I don't know, pretty sure you're going to beat anyhow. So, I mean, you know, because it's a risk, right? Changing when you're, you know, in a business world, we might be able to do a small experiment off to the side a little bit to see, kind of test it out on a model line or whatever you might want to call it. But here you don't really have that. You know, it's. You're playing a game. So how did you experiment with that?

Yeah, I was, it was tricky. I basically only started with. So what we did was. So, you know, it was me, Ron, and let's just say Joe was the third.

And so wait, why are you starting and not me? Yeah, just kidding.

Because I'm the top scorer.

Okay, fair enough.

You're the green belt.

Okay.

So what happened was to do that. I'm also, I mean, I think there's three things that make, you know, high performing team. And that's what I do on the side. Right. That's my private consultant is high performing teams. And if that's process, great. If it's lean leadership or it's more of process improvement or people improvement, we do that. But I think there's three things that really make that work and it's system, culture and having good players. Right. Like I can't win a horse race with a donkey. I just can't. And so, you know, that part can't be understated. And so the way to go with threes, though, one of the issues with that is if those three lines aren't all within kind of the same level. Right. So if there's a huge drop off between the second to third line, that's a little risky. And so in the longer system, what I was noticing was by the time we got midway through the season, my roster numbers had dramatically decreased. Because if you think about it, when we played lines of two, there was only five guys on the field, right? Plus the goalies. But five field players. So lanes of two, that's only 10 players who are actually getting time. So I would only have to roster 12 players. We had two subs who never got on unless we're up or something, got injured. But now going aligns at 3, that's 15. And so I have a call subs. So now we roster 17. So I have more players getting on the roster. And so that then increased more numbers at practice and they can see that kind of pipeline. But so what I did though was my first year of doing it, there was a drop off. The first line is kind of your best players. The second player was still pretty close. But the third line, there was a drop off and there's no way getting around that. So what I did was okay, so let's just say I'm line one, you know, Ron's line two and Joe's line three, it would go me, Ron, then it'd go me, Ron, Joe, me, Ron. Me, Ron, Joe. So the third line just came in as an alternate. Every other line so they weren't getting the exact same, but they got me. And you still got enough to be a breather. And so I did that initially just to see how it kind of transitioned in and it went really well. And sometimes we would tell our third line guy, hey, just wait, I'm on a roll, I'm in a rhythm. You know, other times I also, I'm playing a coach. So sometimes I would say, hey, you take my shift. I just want to watch this for a second. But it takes a special mindset for that third line guy to just know. It's kind of like they're the guy on deck, right? It's like you just have to be ready to go in. But for those guys, they really loved it because before in the old model they would never even see the field, they wouldn't even see the roster. So just create a positive kind of strength based mindset around what does it mean to be. And like I've told the players, if you don't, if you want to do an individual sport, you know, that's golf or swimming or something else, but team sport, everybody's got roles and you know that from the lean organization too. Do your job, what's your role? And do it to the best you can. I don't need everybody to be a high performer, but I need us to be a high performing team.

Love it. I love it. So if someone's listening to this right now, Richard, that's just kind of, they're new to Lean as well. Maybe they're, you know, a few months into it or a year into it or so. Do you have any advice for them as they're getting going?

Yeah, I mean I would say like reach out to people. Take as much Lean in information as you can. There's a lot of good out there. There's a lot of people. However, I would say let the majority of that feedback land on a window. Right. And you, you get to decide what you want to open up and take in and otherwise, otherwise you're going to just get bogged down into the weeds of seven waste, eight wastes. You know, this is the real, real way to do it. This is the, the purest way. The translation really meant this. Figure out what you're good at and really be a shotgun approach to start. Try a few different things and then whatever works. Follow up with the canon and go for that as opposed to trying to be everything to everyone. I found my niche in high performing teams and okay, let's get after that and let's really follow that up. Lean has so many agencies. You don't have to be, you know, just you can make a career or just being great 5s and looking at where 5s can be improved. That's, you know, I lean to a couple of those, you know, 5S. Kaizen and value stream mapping. Really I solved 9% right there. And so know what, know what you're good at knowing passion for and just kind of go for that because there will be impostorship syndrome that comes with it and that can be daunting and it was and still is for me. But as I got more comfortable with actually no, I know what I bring and I'm good at that. And I've really just continued to learn more about a couple of things and trying to again stretch that and be a lean Japanese master of all things lean, you know.

Hey, so I got a completely random youth sports question and nothing to do with lean or maybe it does, I don't know. But, but I, I always appreciate my. So I have kids and they, I have one daughter. She played soccer, you know, for, for many, many years, you know, starting on the little rec fields and you know, her dad was her coach and all the rest of it, you know. And then she went into the academy and then she ended up playing select and all the rest of it and she got a little bit burned out. Honestly, I'll be truthful. When she was, was when she was in her upper Teens there. And so she stopped playing and she's into horses now and we are in Texas here. So she's barrel racing and loves it and all the rest of it. But. But she got burned out. And sometimes I look back on it that, you know, if I had to do it over again with her, you know, the, the whole specialization, like she, I would say she specialized in soccer at the age of four and never stopped, you know. And so what is, is your thought on youth sports today and especially here in America? I don't know how it is in. In Europe, but perhaps it's the same where if you do get into the kind of the higher level, the club scene or whatever, you. You may be kind of locked out of other sports. And so you're not playing basketball one season or track in the summer or whatever it might be. You're specializing. So what's your thought on specialization versus, you know, playing a bunch of different. Different sports?

Yeah, no, that's a great question and debate. Right, like that's happening. I have different, different views because, you know, my daughter's only two, but I've been even thinking about that now. You know, growing up in Europe, in Scotland specifically, there was only, you know, we only played soccer and, you know, football. And we. Part of that's because you only need a ball and you take the jumper off, put it down, got the goal post right. It's accessible to all. Whereas rugby and tennis is seen more of kind of private school sports. So I specialized there. It was all I knew, but everyone did culturally. And so I do think there is a burnout with that that comes. And I've seen it here in the U.S. i mean, even the academy scene is no longer academy. Right. It's just rec with the pay for.

Yeah, exactly.

Every team is getting more and more. And I think if I, when I came over here, you know, I started playing just the pickup basketball and things like that when I was in school. And I really enjoyed it. But I think it's making. I think it helps to do sports that can connect to each other. Right. So maybe it's not like your track and your hockey, right, because you're building completely different muscle groups and all that. So if it can make sense, I think ideally I'd probably do two team sports and one individual. Like I think the mental game that like golf or running, long distance, running can teach you is big and you value the team sport as well. Basketball, the quick feet and particularly some of the tactical things with basketball I think are fantastic. So I think if this. I'm a fan of doing multi sports, but the reality is too, I think what parents need to know, and I hear this all the time. You know, we're trying to go D1 and we're trying to go here. And the reality is, if you're only playing three months out of the year, everyone else is playing 12 months. There's going to be a gap.

Yeah, no, for sure.

Maybe not athletically, but there will be. If someone's touching a ball with their feet for 12 months and you touch it for three months, there's a gap there. So you can play basketball. Absolutely. But you still have to be touching that ball daily. You have to begin some touches in or playing and whatnot. So I'd say yes. But I see folks who are kind of, you know, we go back to that mile long inch deep. Right. They're, you know, master of everything. Sorry. Good. Everything. Master of none.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. I'd say two sports is fine. I think once you start getting into three and four, then they become hobbies.

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. Cool. Well, yeah, I just curious. I always like to ask that question of folks who are in the industry, so to speak. Right. Yeah. Good stuff. All right, well, hey, Richard, what's the best way for folks to connect with you?

Yeah, so I have my own business, it's LinkedIn. You can get hold of me there. Richard Henderson. But InfoEvaNetWorking Institute is my website. Nevada Networking Institute is my website. But InfoEvaDa Networking Institute gives you my email and. And someone will get in touch with me there and get back. So LinkedIn is always a good way, or that email address I just gave you. And you can get connected to our website. You can see some of the blog posts I wrote and things like that, some of the trainings I do. So I'd love to hear from anybody who's in the area or not. We can connect virtually.

Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. So we'll link to everything in the show notes. So this will be episode 349. So go to gembapodcast.com, look for 349. We'll link to Richard's website and LinkedIn and all that good stuff, but, well, hey, I appreciate the time, Richard. It's been fun and a different topic, which is always good and hearing about Lean and all different types of industries. So I appreciate you coming on.

Yeah, no, thanks for having me. I enjoy listening to the podcast and, yeah, it's always great talking to other Lean folks.

Yep. Fantastic. All right, you take care. Okay.

You too.

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