GA 359 | Pink Tools and Preventing Injuries with Adam Lawrence

You want to keep them from walking out of the plant, paint them pink. And they looked at me kind of strangely, and they're like, say what? I said, well, think about it. You paint orange, pink. Who's going to take that out of the plant? And if somebody took that out of the plant, don't you think you'd notice that?

Today, I'm excited to welcome Adam Lawrence back to the show. Now, this is the fourth time that Adam's been on the show, and we're going to link to all of his previous episodes in the show notes. But today, what we do is we talk about. Adam's kind of famous for this topic of the wheel of sustainability. It's actually the first podcast that we did together was episode 287, and that's where he kind of introduced this concept. And this wheel of sustainability is this model Adam's come up with over the years to help people not only make improvements, but then have them really sustain over time. Because as anybody practicing continuous improvement knows, sometimes the easy part is making it better. The hard part is making sure it stays better. And so Adam's done a great job with this model, but what he discovered was that he had a book inside of him. And so he's brought to life this wheel in a book format. And that book is going to be released here towards the end of February. So we talk a little bit in the beginning just about the book writing process. I was curious, I'm always curious with these lean folks. Why did you decide to write a book and all the rest of it? So we talk about that. We talk a little bit about the writing process because he's not a natural writer. This is the first time he's done something like this. So he talked about some of the tools and techniques, continuous improvement, that he brought into that book writing process. But then really, the heart of the episode is I asked Adam to kind of pull out. He's a master storyteller. That's the thing about Adam. And so he's got. I think he said he had several dozen stories that he wrote about in the book, but I asked him to pull out maybe a couple stories that really resonated with him and to share with us. And so he tells the story of the pink tools, and then he tells another story that is. Well, let's just say it'll kind of pull at your heartstrings a little bit. It's a pretty powerful story of. Of one employee helping another employee. And I don't want to say too much more to Ruin it. But, but really fun episode, hearing those two stories and, and Adam is such a gifted, lean thinker and leader and consultant and just really appreciate having him on and, and hearing, hearing all the good stuff that he's been doing really for the world, spreading this, this lean movement of ours. So show notes are going to have. There's a lot in the show notes today, folks, so make sure you go check out gemba podcast.com look for episode 359. Again, gembapodcast.com look for episode 359. Also, depending on the app that you're listening to this on, if you're on iPhone, you're on the podcast app. If you click on the, the episode and scroll down a little bit, you'll, you'll more than likely see these links in there as well. Same thing on Stitcher and Spotify and a few of those other platforms. Also, one thing that we don't do a lot of here on the podcast, but I probably should do more. If you do enjoy the show, could you please review the show, give us five stars, write a few nice words. Apparently this really helps the algorithms in these various platforms to help people find, find the show. So we want more people who maybe don't even know what Lean is or Six Sigma or Congenius Improvement. We want them to stumble onto this podcast because it might open up a whole new world for them. So, yeah, if you, if you don't mind taking a few minutes and, and giving us a, a nice review, I mean, if you think we stink, then I suppose you can give us one star.

I don't know.

I'd probably prefer if you didn't, but no, I really appreciate any positive reviews and feedback you have because that'll, that'll help the show and it also helps us learn and improve. So Gemmapodcast.com, look for episode 359. Enough from me. Let's get to the show. Adam, welcome back to the show.

How are you doing? Great. Ron, thanks for having me on again.

Yeah, my pleasure, man. Really excited to have you on today to talk about, well, your new book, you know, that's, I think it's. So we're recording this here in middle part of January, but this is going to be released, you know, in a few weeks and I think your book's coming out. Was it end of February, is that right?

Yep, we're shooting for the end of February. Couple steps left, but everything seems to be on track.

Great. Fantastic. Well, I can't wait to read it myself. You know, Adam, you've been on the show. Let's see, you were on episode first, on episode 287. That's where we introduced this whole idea of the wheel of sustainability, which is the topic of your book. I'm sure we'll get to that. But that was the first time that came on. And then the second time was episode 303, and we talked about running a successful Kaizen event. And. And then most recently, we talked about the power of 3p. That's where you told D. What was the one? The corn flakes on the ceiling tile. That was fantastic.

Yep. Tasty breakthrough on ceiling tiles.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. So I'll tell you what. If folks haven't listened to those previous episodes, this Wheel of Sustainability episode, that one was back in. When was that? That was October 2019. That's where we go into on what we call the Wheel of Sustainability. And I'm going to encourage folks to go back and listen to that one after this one to learn more about that topic, because I think it'll really set things up nicely based on what we talk about here today. But, Adam, you've been on the show, and you know the drill. We do like to kick things off with our guest sharing a quote. So do you have one?

Yeah, I do have a quote. And it hits very close to home. This is by somebody extremely wise. My wife Peggy, who one day, as I was helping her in the kitchen, said, don't mess with my toolbox and I won't mess with yours. To give you a little background of that, we were just cleaning up after dinner. And us CI guys, we always have a better way or suggestions for a better way. I think I was putting a pot or a pan away. I was questioning, wouldn't it be better for it to be in this location rather than that location? At that point, she gave me that look that we get every so often when we know we've done something we probably shouldn't have. And she quoted that to me to say, look, I've got this work, and it's efficient. You're well fed, the food is great, and don't mess with my toolbox. I won't mess with yours. And that inspired me to realize that C.I. we knew this. It applies anywhere and everywhere. And all these years, she's been hearing me say these things, and it really did influence her thinking. Nice.

I like it. I like it. Adam, in case folks didn't listen to the previous episodes, give us a quick overview of who you are, how you first got introduced. All this continuous improvement stuff and then what you're up to these days.

Okay, well, thanks for that intro, ron. So about 30 years I worked with a large global company doing work with teams all over the world. I had operations experience, I had engineering experience, and I had a bunch of CI experience. In 1991, I pulled a book by Shigeo Shingo off a. Off a bookshelf, opened it up and realized, wow, this could really help me right now. So that really started my journey and I started applying that approach to almost everything I was doing. And my last six years in a corporate setting, I was what we call the lean champion, reporting to a technical services organization within the global company. So we applied that thinking to, to that type of work support organizations. That was a lot of fun. And then about two and a half years ago, I went out on my own, opening my own consulting firm, Process Improvement Partners. It gave me an opportunity to really test my approach to help new clients all around the world to help them solve critical business problems and then solve them and keep them solved in a sustainable way.

Got it, Got it. All right. Well, Adam, like we talked about back in episode 287, you introduced us to the Wheel of sustainability. And I'm not going to ask you to kind of walk through this whole wheel because that's an episode in and of itself, but maybe what's the elevator pitch of what the Wheel of sustainability is all about?

So the idea of the wheel was to create a system that ensured that teams, after they solved complex business problems, the solution would, would live on. So what I understood and I realized was that's not so easy, it's not so obvious. You read a lot of books and there isn't a lot about sustainability, how to keep those problems solved. So I made it my mission to come up with a system that would help do that. And over the many years I've refined it, tested it, made many errors with it, and gotten it to a point where I think I can actually describe it, give an image of it, and then help teams implement it within the whole span of just a Kaizen event. So within a week or less.

All right, and so the end of February, we got a book coming out with. Is it titled the Wheel of Sustainability?

Well, that's main title, the Wheel of Sustainability and it's the subtitle is Engaging and empowering teams to produce lasting Results.

Okay, so why the book? Why. Why did you feel the need to write a book?

Well, I think we all have a story to tell. About 15 years ago, I Attempted to start writing something on an airplane going to Germany. And I wrote for a while, and it was just meandered. And I put that away. Well, with the lockdown, had a little more time on my hands. Most of my clients, I do work on site, so the virtual thing, I've done it, but it's not really to my liking. So I felt that I needed to do something, number one, that could provide value for others and certainly for me. So the story had to come out. And as I wrote, I found that I was bringing those stories of teams that I worked with over these many years into the book. And it just made me happy to think about all the cool things they had done and then how the wheel applied to help them be successful. So every morning I'm an early riser, I crank up some hard rock, start typing, and see how far I'd get. And then just about finished, ready to launch, like you said, at the end of February.

Nice, nice. So talk about that process of writing the book. Was it. I mean, you got your music playing and all the rest of it, but was there any, I don't know, continuous improvement techniques or anything that you use to help you work your way through it, or did you just bear down and type?

Well, I did use a bunch of continuous improvement techniques and principles. The first thing is don't go for perfection. Right. So I knew that the wheel had nine elements, eight spokes, and a hub. So it was pretty clear to me what the outline should look like in the flow. Let's make a chapter for every spoke. Let's make a chapter for the hub. Let's have some kind of introduction element. Let's have some kind of summary element. And then I. I thought out, well, how would this be value adding? So then I organized myself, use a little 5s thinking to organize my thinking in my chapters around what, what portions. How could somebody actually use this? It's. It's. You can read about things all the time, but can you actually use it? So that was my main thought. And then I got challenged to improve many times to say, that's great, but who are you writing this for? Is it just somebody in a factory? Is it just somebody in business? And what I realized, bringing it back to the quote, was I have stories of how we used elements of the wheel at home, at the office, you know, playing sports. There are just so many opportunities. How can I bring that in so that anybody could take a look and maybe get some value from it? But I also realized you just. First thing, you got to do is just type. Type your thoughts. I'm a first time writer, so I have no experience in it. Type it. Wow. I'm sure. Redundant, sure. Repetitive. So how do we get that out? But get it out first and then refine, then refine, then refine. And then there comes a moment when you say, that's enough. Let somebody else look at it, see what they think, get that outside perspective, just like we do. Voice of the customer, right? So people that had no idea about what I do and how I do what I do, they took a look, they gave feedback, couldn't use it all, but I used what I thought I could do something about, brought it back, turned it into something that hopefully reads a bit better, maybe a lot better, brought that together, went through the next step in the process, did all that research. What are the steps that have to go? I am self publishing, so nobody has me under contract, which means, you know, I'm responsible for how good or how bad it looks, and hopefully it turns into something that more than three of us can use. The fun part about it was incorporating stories of the teams into each element or each chapter. So that was a lot of fun. Trying to see how those stories fit each element of the wheel.

Well, you kind of stole my thunder because one of the things I love about having you on Adam and your podcast traditionally have been very well received. The three that we've done, I mean, like, very well received and in terms of many more downloads than the typical episode, because I think, because you, you're a great storyteller. So I do want to kind of put you on a spot a little bit. And I know that you've got multiple stories in the book, but I was wondering if you could share maybe one or two of these stories. And, you know, we don't have words we have to read, but we can, we can listen. And sometimes it's even better, you know, you can hear your, you know, the emotion in your voice and all the rest of it. So do you have any stories from the. That you. That you wrote in a book that you could bring to life here on the podcast?

Well, I absolutely do, Ron. And the hard part was, would be, you know, which of the ones inspired me the most? I'm gonna. I have one or two. And, you know, hopefully they inspire some people to think a little differently about how they do. And they make me smile every time I, you know, share them with people. So thanks for giving me that opportunity. Yeah. So this first one I call the Story Lead from the Front, the Story of the pink tools. And this actually takes me back quite a few years, probably about 10 years. I was, I was returning home from an assignment in Oregon where I was the production manager, and I was asked to help a plant in Ohio who didn't have a lean leader at that point. So I was asked to help them in their early Kaizen strategies and their first events as a facilitator and also helping leadership prepare so that the teams would have a winning experience. So after doing, you know, participating in the first value stream mapping event, we had mapped out a bunch of Kaizen events and we decided we would start in a very simple way with, with a 5s event. And we were going to pick one of their key operating lines. So I get the team and for most of them, they've never had an experience in a Kaizen, and some of them knew me, but most didn't. And I tend to be a little bit off the wall. So I try to come in with some energy and get them thinking a little, little differently. So their issue was the plant was kind of dirty, it was disorganized, and they had a lot of downtime and scrap issues. So as we walked out into the facility, walking around, it became clear that, you know, safety could be improved, the housekeeping could be better. Things weren't very well organized, and my goal was to help them see that. It was easy for me to see, but it wasn't as obvious to them because they worked in it all the time, but they had great enthusiasm and drive and they were taking notes on their post it notes. And when we came in back into the meeting room, they put up, I'm going to say, anywhere from 100 to 150 post it notes with ideas. Now many of those ideas had to do with organizing and decluttering and so on. But a big group of ideas were about having the proper tools they needed when they needed them, to reduce downtime and the ability to safely operate, maintain the lines. But when we got into prioritization, that topic kind of fell down low in their priority list. And I really didn't understand why until I dug a little deeper. And what I found out was they, they all wanted to keep their tools in their toolboxes and not hang them up so anybody could get to them because they were afraid that not only their co workers, but contractors that were working in the plant would walk out with the tools. The tools would have legs. So in my extremely subtle way, I just said, well, if you want to keep them from walking out of the plant, paint them pink. And they looked at me kind of strangely. And I, like, say what? I said, well, think about it. You paint or wrench pink, who's going to take that out of the plant? And if somebody took that out of the plant, don't you think you'd notice that? So imagine if you had a pink hammer and pink wrench and pinch screwdriver and spanner and all these things that you use. And they weren't quite bought in at that point. So we took a little break, and I took a walk away from the team, and I decided to go visit with the plant manager because again, I knew part of the early Kaizen events, team members are really skeptical that they can do things that they've never done before. So knocked on the door of the plant manager's office. He made the mistake of waving me in, and we had a little chat about what was going on. And he was pretty aware of, you know, the issue and the lack of trust about tools walking out of the plant. So I told him that, you know, I had made this pretty extreme suggestion, but also that I needed his help. I needed his help because at some point, somebody was going to violate the rules of the tools, and the rules of the tools were the tools either in use or in place, but nowhere in between, ever. I said, here's where I need your help, Mr. Plant Manager. What I need is the day that that happens. The first time I need you to raise such a fuss, I need you to pound your fist and stomp your feet and raise hell. And this guy was pretty soft spoken, so I don't think he was going to raise hell the way I would want him to raise hell. But he said he'd take the idea under advisement, which was good. That was close. That was almost like, get out of my office. But at least he was willing to think about it.

Yeah.

So I took a walk back to the team, and by the time I returned, they were ready to send me to the hardware store. So they said, okay, we're going to send you to the hardware store. We'd like you to get some paint. I said, well, I'll go look for some pink paint. Well, we're not so sure about pink. When you get to the hardware store, tell us what you find and we'll tell you what to get. I was like, okay, sure, I can do that. So I get to the hardware store, give them a call in the hardware store. I see blue, I see green, I see pink, I see red. What do you want? Oh, we'll take Red. Okay, I'll come back with red. So come back from the hardware store. And team members are just happy as little clams painting their tools red. Okay. Not pink. Close. You know, it's kind of a dark shade of pink. We'll just call it that. Okay. So through the rest of the week now what happened was that kind of built some momentum. Now they're doing something that they never thought they could do. Not totally bought into the idea, but it's kind of fun, kind of different. And they created really nice little toolboard and this really disorganized line and dirty line and safety risk line became clean and organized and labeled and decluttered and safer and all these wonderful things. And at the report out at the end of the week, the team was just so proud of their work. We gave a tour. Plant manager chimed in to reinforce the rule of the tools. And I thought, well, that's really great. I wonder what's going to happen in the upcoming days, weeks, months? Well, about a month and a half or two months later, I was brought back to do either the second or third kaiser. And I can't really remember, but in the middle of the Gemba walk, I hear my name being yelled at. Adam. Adam, when you're done with them, can you come over here? Guys waving at me? I said, sure. So give me time. Wait for the break. So at break time, I go, and it's one of the prior team members. He says, adam, check this out. Check this out. I said, well, what's going on? Kind of knew, but he said, look at the board. I said, well, it looks like a board with a lot of red tools. What are you showing me? He goes, none of them are missing. And I say, okay, did you do that for me? He goes, no. I said, well, have they gone missing? He said, one time. I said, well, what happened? He said, well, the plant manager raised such a fuss that it never happened again. And that's. That's the pink tools.

Nice, Nice. You know, I pulled up I from episode 287. We linked to a diagram of the wheel of sustainability. And I was thinking, as you were telling a story, I was looking at it, and, you know, one of the spokes there is visible evidence. The next, very next one is all tools are available. And. And the one right after that is clear benefits. So it's like, you know, if I'm understanding things right back from that episode and the wheel itself, it seems that you definitely got at least three spokes. But there's also accountability on the other side. And recognition. So it's really many of those things in that one story are kind of covered in your wheel. Is that right?

That is right now it does fall. It actually finds its way into two of the chapters. I couldn't use it everywhere. Yeah, but, but visible evidence is where it first shows up. You're right, Ron. Recognition. See somebody else telling the story. And. But clearly in the center of the wheel is leadership, commitment. So plant manager made that commitment to do something he normally would not have done. Very soft spoken guy. I had worked for him in the past in corporate. We knew each other well. And he gave me a little leeway when I said, pound your fist and stomp your feet.

Yeah, got it.

You're right.

Very good, very good. What's the second one?

Well, okay, the second one is probably one of the most emotional ones that, that I've been lucky enough to be a part of. And we. I call it Breaking through the Edge. So this was done one of, one of my changeover Kaizens that I did with a team out in Oregon in the mid 2000s. So our goal was to do a changeover event, a smet event on one of the. On the main production line. There really was only one. And like any good Kaizen event, we, you know, we do some voice of the customer and we do some Gemba walk before we get deep into the changeover, you know, observations and so on. So we took a walk around the line again, making, you know, notes of ideas to improve things for changeover. So again, organization and settings and visualizations and all these, all these wonderful things. And as we walked through the line, we came to the very end of the line and there was a quality technician in a booth. Now this was a ceiling tile manufacturer and this was a, what they call a tegular tile, meaning that a piece of the tile sits on the ceiling grid and another part of it hangs below the grid. So there's a little ledge, there's a little ledge that sits in that ceiling grid to make it kind of a 3D effect. So this quality technician, what she had to do was she was measuring the color of the paint to make sure that the edge paint, which was made, which was painted with different process than the face paint, she had to find out that the paints matched up. So she had to use a thing called a colorimeter. It just measures the various components of color and says, yep, you're 98%, you know, correlated or 22% correlated or whatever. And the only way she could do that on this two foot by two foot tile was to take a box knife, a utility knife, and physically by hand cut those two foot edges so that you could put the colorimeter on that, that short edge that was going to sit below the grid. So she really wasn't part of our changeover. But the team was very interested in this. Apparently was their top safety risk identified in the plant. And engineers had been working on it to no avail. So we, we spent a little time talking to her to find out, you know, how bad is this? Well, her wrists hurt at the end of the day because she was doing this test about once every 10 minutes. Okay. So lots of notes were being taken. But again, this wasn't really part of, you know, our, our changeover process. But yet we couldn't ignore the fact that this was a major safety risk. Yeah, so, so we worked on changeover and we were making some great progress. I had a number of operators, a number of mechanics, a team manager, and a couple staff members on the team. And about the middle of the second day, one of the mechanics came up to me and said, Adam, I just can't get that box cutter process out of my head. I need to do something about it. Can you give me about an hour or two to work on it? And I said to him, I love it. This is exactly what you should be working on. But it's really not in our charter scope. I said, so I'm going to tell you what, Kaizen's a team sport. Let's ask the team what they think. Well, so he brings it up to the team and the team said absolutely, positively, we've got to do it. We've got this. We're on track to cut change over time in half. And in fact, one of the operators says, can I help him? And the team's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys go, I can't wait to see what you guys come up with. So they go off on their little mission and the rest of the team, you know, they're working on their thing. And about an hour and a half, two hours go by and the two guys come back with this thing that looks like a wood vice and they've got a two foot angle iron on each side of the jaws of the vise. So just think of a wider wood vise and they've got big grins on their face and they're really proud. Something's about to happen. They're ready to show us their, their, you know, their invention. They even put little casters on the bottom of this vice so that they could Wheel it anywhere they wanted to go with it. So they bring it up and they have a ceiling tile. And the mechanic says, check this out. And he puts the tile in vertically, closes the vise and pops this thing and it just breaks off clean as any, anything. And we all get slack jawed. We're like, wow. So somebody says, let me try. And they try. It works again. And everybody had to get a turn, of course. He said, well, okay, let's give it the ultimate test. So we take it down to the quality technician to her booth and we, we call her out to show, say, hey, look what they just built for you. And so she tries it, pops the thing over and it clean. Breaks clean off. And she gives this 6 foot 4, 310 pound mechanic, I think the first hug he ever got at the factory. And he blushes. You know, it was just, just amazing. And we're just so proud. He goes, now just remember this is just a prototype. This is just a prototype. She says, I don't care, it worked. Can I have it now?

Yeah.

He's like, well, let me, let me finish it up and absolutely, it's yours, you know, but it's just a prototype, we'll do it. So anyway, so we finish our work and we decide, you know, we're going to give this report out about our changeover and we're going to save the best for last. So the entire staff comes out, we do it right out on the factory floor. In those days, we didn't do PowerPoint presentations. What we would do is we'd invite them to our meeting room, we'd have a couple folks on the team kind of describe the process they went through. And then we give a tour of the changes we made. And that seemed to be fun and interactive. So we took them around the line and showed him all the cool stuff. And there's a lot of clapping and, you know, whoop, whooping and all sorts of stuff. But we said, but wait, there's one more thing we want to show you. So, but to do it right, we need our quality technician. So we call her out from her booth and the mechanic and the operator and she put this thing in the vise and pop it over and it breaks off clean as day. And in my lifetime, I have never seen 15 people's jaws hit the floor at the same time. But they did that day. And plant manager and the ops manager, they both said, well, let me try, let me try. And they do it and they do it. And then the HR manager, she says, you know, We've been working on this six months. Everybody's been trying this. Nobody could figure it out. It's the top safety risk. And your team, in three days or four days, figured it out, just knew what they had to do. We need to do more of this. And she gave the big mechanic the second hug he ever got in the factory.

Oh, man.

Now, I say it was emotional because at the end, we had each person in the team talk about, you know, what the week was like for them. This was one of their early Kaizen events. So this was one of these things where you want to influence leadership to let us do more and do more. So the big fella gets up with tears in his eyes, and he says, I've worked at this company for. I don't remember, it was 10 or 15 years. He says, I've never done anything so impactful as this. We have to do more work like this. So imagine your biggest mechanic doing that. So that strikes me, to this day, I can still see him as tears well up in his eyes. So when you can create that level of motion, of emotion, it's just. It's just so impactful.

Oh, wow. What a story. Yeah, I mean, I've. I've been involved in Kaizen events that. That, you know, where I've seen grown men cry as well at the end. And, you know, done correctly, this continuous improvement stuff not only works. I mean, I think most people listening to this podcast probably agree it works, but it will leave, like, an indelible mark on your soul if you do it the right way and with the right spirit and genuinely trying to help others. And that's what that mechanic was trying to do. He was trying to help someone. Right. A colleague who was struggling and dangerous job and all the rest of it. And. And, yeah, what a. What a wonderful example of Kaizen done correctly. So well done to that mechanic. Hopefully he's. He's listening.

Yeah, that would be cool. I'd love to. I'd love to find out somehow, some way.

Yeah. Well, fantastic. Wow. Well, I know there's more stories in there, Adam, but, you know, we. We could probably go on for another four or five hours, you know, but I want to be respectful of your time, and I definitely want folks to pick up the book. So, again, what's the name of it, Adam?

Okay, so it's called the Wheel of Sustainability. Engaging and empowering teams to produce lasting results.

Okay. And we'll have a link, I'm sure, by the time this episode comes out. So I'm going to point everybody to GembaPodcast.com and look for episode 359359 and we're going to link to it. You know, I'm sure you know where websites, Amazon. I mean, do you have a website for the, for the book right now, Adam? Or, or, or not?

Yeah, so I. Okay, so the goal, we're going to link it, we're going to send it up to Amazon, making the assumption that they approve it there. There hopefully will be a Kindle version as well as a print version. I don't know about you, Ron, but I like to have a book in my hand. I guess I'm kind of old school for sure. I'm also going to put it on my website. It's not on there yet, but by the time this airs it should be. So check out PI-partners.com and there will be a pre order if somebody actually wants me to sign a. Happy to do that too. So we'll have a way to order it there also through Amazon and hopefully more than three people will find value in it. And that's the goal. And like I told you earlier, we all have a story to tell. This one just had to get out. There are about 30 to 35 stories similar to this trying to give that image of those various components of the Wheel. So hopefully if one doesn't resonate, maybe the second one will. Yeah, you know. Yeah.

Well, listen, there's more than three people at work at Gemba Academy and I think I'm gonna buy a copy for everybody here to read. So you've already beat three, can tell you that. And I want mine signed, by the way, so I need those instructions on how to make. We can talk about that offline though.

Absolutely.

Wow. Yeah, well, job writing a book, man, I know that's not easy. I've never done it. I mean I've written hundreds and hundreds of blog articles, but I've never put it all together in a book. So congratulations on that. It's a huge accomplishment. Adam, if folks do want to connect with you directly on social media or anything, that what's the best way?

Right. So I have a personal page, Adam Lawrence on LinkedIn and I also have a business page, Process Improvement Partners. You can also find me. I have a YouTube channel. So some of the stories, I share them in video form.

Nice.

So it's just look for Adam Lawrence. There's a few, there's a few Adam Lawrence channels. So you know, maybe look for Wheel of Sustainability and you might be able to find me. Yeah, right. That's about it. But you know, there's, there's good contact information I can be you can call or email me anytime. Just love to talk this stuff with anybody who's interested.

Awesome. We'll put all your contact information on show notes again gembapodcast.com look for episode 359 and we'll also link to the other three podcasts that we've done with Adam in the in the show notes. So if you're listening to on Stitcher or podcast app, on the iPhone, whatever, just kind of scroll down and all those links will be there. All right. Well, Adam, thanks again for coming on, my friend. It was, it was fun as always. I know we'll probably cross paths again on the podcast down the road because I know you got a lot more stories to share.

Well, thank you for having me, Ron. It's been a pleasure and I really enjoyed speaking with you and your audience again.

All right, you take care.

You too.

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