GA 372 | Lean and Mental Health with Jessica House

Every single person in this world wants to do well. Every child, every parent, every partner, every employee. And so if we're not doing well or if we're, you know, in that coaching relationship and it's just not working, I believe something's getting in their way, and it's my job as their coach to try to find out what it is, so I can help.

Today I'm excited to welcome Jessica House to the show. Now, Jessica, as you'll hear, has a background in mental health, but she's also learned to practice lean. And so today on the, on the podcast, we talk about how her, her background in mental health has influenced the way she practices lean. And then we also talk about how her experience as a lean thinker, lean practitioner has influenced the way that she coaches and, and supports people in her mental health kind of coaching. And, and she does some work with parents and different things like that. So a really interesting podcast, and we've, we've kind of talked about this topic a little bit in past episodes, but I don't think we' really jumped into this topic as much as we did today. So really, really interesting episode. I think you're gonna like it. So show notes, which will include links to everything Jessica and I talk about, can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 372. Also, if you've not subscribed to the podcast on whatever app you're using, please do subscribe to it. And also, if you don't mind, we always appreciate hearing, you know, reviews on the various platforms and definitely does help the show kind of move up the, the, the algorithm or whatever, which makes the show more accessible to other people. What we're really trying to do with this podcast, ultimately, we don't monetize it, obviously, in any way. We're just trying to get the word out about what Lean is all about and how it really, it can positively impact anybody in any industry. And I mean, here's an example where someone who's coaching folks on mental health and different things like that is using lean. So really, lean as knows no boundaries. Yeah, that would be great if you could support the show that way. Anyhow, enough from me. Let's get to the show. Jessica, welcome to the show. How are you?

I'm doing really well, Ron. Thank you for having me.

Oh, no, thanks for coming on. So I understand we have some mutual friends. One in particular, Ms. Karen. Sounds right. Does that sound right?

It does, yes. My dear friend, Karen Ross, she has been my coach and mentor for Some time now. And yeah, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Karen.

Yeah, well, she's a great coach and a great mentor, so. And great, prolific podcast guest herself. I don't. She's been on the show like 30 times, I think so. But we have a lot of fun every time Karen and I get together, so. Yeah. Great, great. Well, hey, I'm excited to have you on, Jessica. I think we're going to talk about a topic that I'm not sure we've really addressed. Maybe we've indirectly addressed it a little bit, but not, not, not head on, I don't think, in the podcast. So I'm really excited for the topic. But before we get into that, you. I know you've listened to the show, and we do like to begin with our guest sharing a quote. So do you have one?

I do have a quote, and actually it comes from our good mutual friend, Karen Ross. She shared this quote with me, and I will forever hold onto it. It goes like this. Leap and your wings will grow. So for me, this quote, it just resonates on so many levels. Parents, coaches, entrepreneurs, employees, lean practitioners. And for everyone listening to the show, we're constantly faced with situations that push us outside of our comfort zone or that really scare us. And perhaps it's learning a new skill or doing a podcast for the first time, or maybe it's making a big change in your life, however great or small the situation may seem. We're faced with these types of situations all the time. And so for me, quite frankly, it's much easier to avoid those scary situations and continue down that path of familiarity. But what happens when we do is that we deprive ourselves the opportunity to grow our wings. The more difficult thing for us to do is to lean into our courage and take that leap, whatever that may be. Stepping into the discomfort in pursuit of something greater.

Oh, I love it. Very well said. All right, well, hey, Jessica, tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us about your background, how you first got into all this continuous improvement stuff, and then tell us what you're up to these days.

Sure. So my background is in children's mental health. So I've worked most of my career in children's mental health at a local center here in Ottawa, Canada. So that's where I'm living currently and about, I would say. A couple of years ago when I was working at that organization, we were faced with some challenges, some capacity demand challenges. The wait lists for mental health services were very, very large. People are waiting for services for sometimes up to a year and even more yet. We weren't getting any increased funding. We didn't seem to have the resources to meet the needs. It was at that time that the community came together to figure out a different way. And that's. We embarked on a training, training around lean. And so when I was at the former organization, I pursued my green belt. And then there was an opportunity that came up at an organization here in Ottawa where I'm currently working, Algonquin College. And they were known as kind of experts in the field of lean. And so this position was the manager of continuous improvement. And I thought, you know what, I could go there and learn so much about lean. I'm passionate about what I've learned thus far and I feel like it could really benefit children and families. And so I went there, I got a coach, Karen Ross, and yeah, the rest is kind of history. So now I've opened up my own private practice called Lighthouse Counseling and Wellness. And the focus of that organization is to work with children, parents, families who are struggling. And I really applied a lot of what I've learned about lean to help the people in my community.

Super interesting. So let's jump right in. So most of the folks listening have a pretty good background in lean, but might not in mental health. So what do they have to do with each other?

Yeah, so I think of three main points and maybe I'll start by acknowledging that on the surface, lean and mental health may not seem to have a lot to do with each other, but in fact, I believe they're interconnected because at the heart of both is people. So the first point is that all people have mental health. It's really made up of our emotional, psychological and social well being. And when we think about lean, part of its foundation is in the people doing the work. We can't continuously improve processes without our people. And when our people are doing well and when they're feeling well, they're in a really great position to do work. Great work. When they're not doing well, it's difficult for them to engage, learn, innovate and create. That leads me to my second point of how they intersect, and it's the concept of safety. So safety really is of critical importance in both the lean world and the mental health world. When practicing lean, we often look at metrics related to safety, cost, quality, delivery, morale. And because lean was based in manufacturing, when we refer to safety, we typically refer to physical safety. In mental health, safety is also just as important. However, we really expand that idea so that it's not just about physical safety, but also includes psychological safety too. When we feel unsafe, our brain literally shuts down access to parts of the brain that are responsible for things like executive functioning, problem solving, creativity. We stay in this alarmed state, which leads us to respond and fight, flight or freeze. For us to be able to access the executive parts of our brain responsible for creativity and scientific problem solving, we need to create the conditions where our employees are physically and psychologically safe. I feel like this is a really underexplored part of Lean. However, currently given the COVID 19 pandemic, I do believe that the importance of keeping our people psychologically safe has been emphasized. I'd argue that, you know, it's a prerequisite for Lean work, which is why Karen Ross and I actually are in the process of finalizing the development of what we're calling the five Cs. So not fives, but the five Cs for psychological safety. So more to come on that concept, dog.

So you can't give us a peek at the five C's I guess. Right? You have to have guys come back on and we'll do a big, big reveal.

We could do a big reveal. That sounds great. Yeah, for sure. I was just going to make one last quick point and it was just. It's really how both approaches like Lean and treating mental health issues, we kind of take a similar approach. And it starts with purpose. So knowing deeply what our customers value and want and working to deliver that value to our customers by eliminating waste and maximizing our resources. And so when you put the mental health context on that, the customer is the client. In both Lean and Mental Health, part of our work is spending time developing our people so that they have the skills, the behaviors, the mindsets to do the work. We also spend time going to Gemba to really understand the current state, to find out where the improvement opportunities lie. Mental health is no different. To live a life where we're mentally healthy, we need to understand what parts of our world are serving us or are in alignment with our purpose and values. So the value add activities, I guess, and which parts aren't, or the non value added parts of our life. And so we do this collaboratively with our clients through gathering relevant background info, gathering observations to really formulate that assessment or the planning phase of plan do, study, adjust perhaps, and that ultimately helps us set the stage for the path forward. Yeah, so those would be the three main intersects.

I would say no, and I couldn't agree more. I really am fascinated with the human brain, you know, and I mean, I've not deeply studied it, but you know, when you think about, you know, you mentioned about that, the fight or flight. So, you know, this is our so called reptilian brain, right. It activates when we're scared or when we're anxious or uncertain. Right. You hear the rustling in the, in the bushes, you know, you run, you know, so this is our, you know, how meant to keep us safe, if you will. However, you know, to your point, you can't problem solve down there. You can only really survive. And so what we're really trying to do is get to the prefrontal cortex, part of our brain, right. Where we can think rationally and think and problem solve and think critically, that sort of thing. But until you get out of the reptilian brain, you can never get to the prefrontal cortex where you can really think. So I think you're exactly right, you know, and the role mental health can have on, you know, on our ability to be, you know, not just good lean thinkers, but just good human beings. Right. Trying to, you know, make our way through the world.

Absolutely. And I think of all of the effort that we can put into trying to help equip people with the skills to continuously improve their work. And if we don't come at it, understanding, you know, human psychology, I think sometimes we can get into a place where we are creating waste that we might be trying to teach to the, you know, prefrontal cortex, when in fact, they haven't even felt safe enough to feel connected with us, to be able to take in the information.

Yep, exactly. Exactly. So obviously you, you're practicing lean and you've got a really strong mental health background. I'm curious, like, how, how has your background in mental health, you know, maybe influence the way that you go about practicing lean.

Yeah. So what I believe stands out is the emphasis that I place on the people side of lean, so the importance of the human relationship and connection. I've watched many very, very, very skilled, experienced lean practitioners who are technically so incredibly savvy, yet sometimes run into issues where they feel like people aren't, you know, in quotations, buying in to lean. I've heard some practitioners say, you know, this person just isn't coachable. Whereas for me, with my background, I really doubt that it's ever just as simple as they aren't coachable. You know, I came into the role of lean practitioner with a strong philosophy about people that stemmed from my work in mental health. And the philosophy goes like this, it's basically that every single person in this world wants to do well. Every child, every parent, every partner, every employee, every single one of us, we want to do well. And so if we are not doing well or if we are in that coaching relationship and it is just not working for me, I believe something's getting in their way, and it's my job as their coach to try to find out what it is so I can help. And this philosophy comes from a brilliant approach that I use as a mental health practitioner called Collaborative problem solving by Dr. Stuart Ablon of Think Kids. And the philosophy has served me very well as a lean practitioner and coach. I'm able to see past what I believe people call resistance, or lack of buy in and connect with people to understand their real concerns. So I'll give you an example. In an organization that I was working for, my job was to coach a member of the senior leadership team who was described to me as someone who just wasn't buying into lean. They weren't coachable. And so during my transition into the role as this person's coach, I got to observe the former coach with this leader. And during the coaching session, the leader would. Well, at first, maybe they would show up late to the session, they might talk about how busy they were. They didn't have much time for the session. They wouldn't have completed any of the assigned homework that the coach had provided them. And they would say things like, I've tried this, I've tried that, it's not working. This was described to me as resistance. But my training and background always looks to understand the real issue. And so I'm also trained with an understanding that it's through connection and safety that people open themselves up to sharing and learning. So that's essentially what I did when I took over as the coach. We spent time together. I would just show up at that leader's office just to say hi, ask them how they were doing, how their family was, how their weekend went. I found things that we had in common and connected with this leader through sameness or what we had in common, through showing them their significance and building them up. And at the end of the day, as a coach, I genuinely wanted this person to do well, and I knew that they wanted it too. And so with that approach, it really didn't take long before it was safe enough for this person to move forward with the actual lean coaching. And ultimately, this leader went on to be a really incredible lean coach for their direct reports as well. So that's a bit of a success story.

Yeah. Well, it's interesting. You're talking about a leader who in theory is, as far as the organizational chart, higher than you. Right. Like, so what do they have to be scared about? Right, right. You think, you know, in that sense, but as you just explained, there is. There is fear at any level. Sometimes the fear at a senior level might be that, oh, I'm supposed to have all the answers. Right. Because. Right. And so you have to help people understand that. No, no, no, it's okay if you don't know the, you know, it doesn't make you a bad leader. It makes you a great leader, in fact, because then you're humble. Right. Think about Edgar sky, you know, shine and humble inquiry and things like that. Right. And but it's so interesting because we don't really think about safety going up the ladder. We typically think, oh, it's all going to be the folks that work for these seniors leaders who are going to be scared. But it's not always the case, is it?

No, no, it's not always the case. And I think when you describe not necessarily having all of the answers perhaps being what's scary for leaders, I definitely have experienced that. I've seen that happen. And I find it takes, you know, it takes a very skilled coach to be able to create a safe environment for that leader to be able to let their walls down and say, you know what? I actually, I have no what I'm doing here or I don't have all of the answers. And I find modeling can really help. So oftentimes in my coaching, I will model what I'm looking for them to try first. And then I often lend my courage to them and offer to either come with them when they're going to have to practice what I've just modeled. So maybe it is practicing saying, you know what? I really don't know the answer to that and how can we find out together or how can we go and see? And so I'll often lend my courage to them and say that I can come with you and I can be there right by your side.

Oh, I love that. I mean, I'm sure it sounds like you've practiced a little scientific thinking as well along the way. Maybe, but you know.

Yes, a little bit of kata.

Yeah, but that's what we're doing. Right? That's Mike, actually rephrase that question, you know, like, how soon can we go and see what we have learned? Right. We. And because the learner and the coach are both learning. Right. The coach doesn't know, the learner doesn't know. But we're going to gather. So that's a beautiful example.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

So, hey, I'm really curious to get your thoughts on this. It just kind of popped in my mind. You know, human beings, one of our many issues is that. That we're almost always biased towards something. We're biased toward, you know, our favorite sports team, or we're biased towards, you know, a certain color vehicle, or we're biased toward a political candidate or something like that. But we are mostly, all of us have pretty strong biases in the world. So I'm curious to get your perception on. How do you. How do you fight bias? Confirmation bias is probably the most popular one, right? Where we're just like, I'll even tell people, hey, I'm calling Jessica. Hey, how are you going? Hey, good. Listen, Jessica, I'm calling you for confirmation bias. I'm just telling you straight up, okay? You know, letting you know, you know, I'm seeking it, but don't give it to me if you don't think I should. Should have it. But how do you go about battling bias in the world because it's so, so prevalent?

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. I mean, we all come into this world with our own lenses on. Sometimes our biases are known to us, and other times the biases are unknown to us. Those are the scarier ones. As a mental health practitioner, we are expected to practice safely and effectively. And so what that means is doing whatever it takes for us to become very aware of our biases so that when we do go in and provide counseling to our clients, we can put our biases at the door. And so, you know, maybe that requires therapy. As a therapist, you know, you have to actually go and do your own therapy at times to really understand and unpack some of those biases. As a lean practitioner, I find it incredibly valuable to have coach yourself or, you know, a second coach. And the way I know that, you know, some people talk about second coach. For us, a second coach is somebody who comes to observe you practicing as a coach and then provide you feedback on how you were coaching. And so I often use my second coach as somebody who I share some of my biases with, and then I get feedback from them around. What they're observing are potential biases of mine. And I find that can be really helpful.

I love it. I love it. So earlier I asked you about how your mental health background influenced you as a lean practitioner. I want to kind of turn the question around now, and how has your Lean background, your lean experience, influenced how you coach and perhaps counsel people on things like mental health or parenting or whatever it might be in your work, in the work that you do?

Yeah, such a great question. Since really immersing myself in Lean, I am forever changed. I'll just throw that out there. I will not lead in the same way. I view my role as leader completely differently. When I say leader, it really applies to any leadership role that I might play. So as a mom, a manager to employees, an entrepreneur in Lean, the principle of respect for people, where you believe in human potential and challenging people to be more than they believe possible, where much of the time you spend is in developing your people and going to see where the work is happening, These are all things that now are much. It's who I am and it's how I practice. So in past, I would spend a lot of my time in my office doing admin work, perhaps with my door closed. And it's because there was a lot of work. I had to get that done for sure. But what Lean has taught me is about, you know, aligning yourself around your purpose and the priorities that you have and making sure that you're spending time where your priorities are. And it's not that I didn't have priority around my people, I just didn't prioritize my time in that way. And so now, you know, I don't spend nearly as much time in an office by myself. In fact, when I was in the office, I'm working from home now, but when I was in the office, I share an office with the people that report to me. And so this has really just changed my whole world because they're able to get answers from me as quickly as they need. The work flows more seamlessly. The connection and the relationships that I have with the people I work with are stronger because we're literally sharing space together. So I would say that that is one really big way I've changed in terms of how I coach, manage, how I lead. Another point. So the idea of one size not fitting all. So in mental health, we had many programs that were designed to try to fit our clients into. So for instance, we would have a three month home based treatment program. And if a client met the criteria for that program, then they were put into it, they'd receive the three months. Even if maybe they could have benefited from one month of service. For example, there were processes to end the services early or extend if needed, but the program wasn't designed in A way where at its core, it was based on what the customer needed. Whereas the emphasis from a Lean practitioner perspective is that we have to understand the customer needs and wants first and design our processes so that their needs and wants are met in the most effective and efficient way. So in my current private practice, one example that quickly comes to mind is engaging with parents to find out what they're struggling with the most and designing the program to meet those specific needs. So recently I did just that. And I uncovered that many parents were worried about their children's ability to manage the stress caused by the pandemic. So feeling like their kids weren't really talking about their feelings, they didn't have any strategies to cope with their feelings or cope with stress. As a result, I ended up designing a coping during Covid group for children that targeted those exact topics. Another lesson that I've learned is the true value and benefit of using visual management both at work and in the home. And it really has strongly influenced how I coach others on their mental health and parenting, as well as how I parent myself. So before immersing myself in Lean, I managed my day based on my calendar, a collection of numerous to do lists in various places. And I thought this system was really working well for me. And then before long, the day would pass and I'd forget something really important that I was supposed to do or I didn't make progress on all the things that were actually considered priority. So Lean totally opened my eyes to a new way. One, build your calendar based on your priorities, but also create those visual systems like Huddle board to see the important metrics and information you need. Regular line of sight on it really provided me an organized visual way to stay on top of the most important things. And as a parent, for example, like early on in the pandemic, I realized that as a mom with I have two boys, they're 9 and 11. So as a mom with two boys who are both doing virtual lear for the very first time, this is like the first lockdown that we embarked on. Both kids had different schedules, neither of which coordinated with the schedules of my husband or I. We were in desperate, like desperate need of a system to track who was doing what, where, when. And so I leveraged my Lean tools and I created a huddle board for us and it tracked all of those details. We met in the morning every day to go over it together. My kids thought I was, you know, they didn't know what was going on because this is very new. Yeah, they balked at it. But we did it, and we made a routine out of it where we met in the morning every day to go over it together. And it was honestly what got us through that very first lockdown.

Oh, that's so good.

Yeah. And visual management, you know, we definitely would use it in mental health because we understand that people take in, like, they take in visual information. We learn through seeing things visually, a lot of us. And yet it was something that I was. I noticed very quickly that when I was outside of the mental health world, I wasn't using it as much. And then Lean just kind of reinforced it for me, so I was able to bring it back into my world in a big way.

So cool. The thing that also was popping in my mind, I was. I want to get. I'm curious genuinely, because I don't. I'm not a mental health expert, obviously, but I know that if I'm feeling, like, overwhelmed or, you know, got a lot of stuff going on, I'll look around and something as, as. As. As obvious as my desk is a big mess or my. My. My inbox in my. My. My email is a. Is a huge mess. And so I just take the time to do a little 5s or even 3s. You know, just practice sorting, getting rid of the things I don't need, tidying up a little. And then as soon as I get. Get more organization, I feel better. So I'm wondering if, like, things like 5s, 3s, whatever you want to call it, does that add value if you're coaching someone in a mental health perspective, like teaching them to sort of 5s their life kind of thing?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, sometimes we are. We are overbooked, over, scheduled, and that's part of the problem. And when we're stressed, sometimes it's because there's just too much clutter in our lives. There's too much going on. And so 5s can be really helpful. I can remember somebody. It might not have been, like, the main reason they came for counseling, but they. They talked about their frustration as they walked through the front door and faced their front hall closet that was, you know, overflowing with boots and jackets and mittens and all of those things. And so essentially we walked through. It wasn't exactly like 5us, but it was essentially to sort and to organize and then to figure out a way that we could keep and maintain this newly organized space so that when she walked in the door, she wasn't triggered, which set the stage for the rest of her evening. So, yeah, absolutely. It can definitely be Beneficial.

Very cool, Very cool. Well, Jessica, this has been a really, really fun conversation. Maybe to wrap things up. I don't know if you have any sort of final words of wisdom or maybe some advice to the lean thinker out there who's listening right now and might want to, I don't know, be a little bit more aware of the people side of lean and whatnot. Do you have any advice or final words of wisdom?

Yeah, I mean, so we're in really difficult times right now. And that just comes to mind that first and foremost we all, each and every one of us, we have to be kind to ourselves first. And secondly, we need to be kind to others. But nothing is more important than our mental health. And at times what that means is we might need to lower our expectations a little bit or deselect some of the things that are on our list of to do's. We need to really listen to our minds and bodies to find out what we need. And you know, I guess I would just encourage everyone to think of one small thing. It doesn't have to be big because the big things sometimes can feel like a little bit overwhelming. But what's one small thing that you can do to take care of yourself? And if you're working in an organization, if you're a lean practitioner, what's one small thing you can do to take care of those that you work with? Because ultimately it's those small daily steps that are going to lead to great change. So that would be what I would, I would leave people with.

I love it. A few episodes ago, Gentleman Rick Forman came on and, and he sort of said something very similar and he said the way that, you know, if you're struggling with getting lean going in your organization, go to the, to the person that's in, you know, that is in front of you or even after you in the process and just say, hey, how can I make your world better? You know, in other words, you want to serve them. Like how can I help you? You know, what can I do to make your job easier? You know, just really taking it, taking it onto yourself on how you can serve others. It's a really, it's a different way than saying, hey, if you would just do this a little bit better, my world would be better. Right? But turn it around, right? And so like how can I make your world better? And then together both worlds will probably improve, right?

Yeah. And you know, I think that's one of the maybe secrets in terms of happiness that people don't realize that when we serve others. We actually increase the feel good hormones inside of us and so it actually makes us happier. So I love that.

Yup. Beautiful. Hey, Jessica, folks want to connect with you. What's the best way?

Yeah, so they can email me@jhouselighthousecw.ca or they can follow me on my Instagram page or my Facebook page.

Okay. And you're also on LinkedIn. That's how we interacted, I believe, right?

That's right, yes. Thanks for reminding me. So for sure you can also follow me on LinkedIn.

Yeah, perfect. All right. And we'll put all the links to your various social media accounts in the show notes. So today this is episode 372. So folks, just go to GembaPodcast.com look for three episode 372 with Jessica House and we will get you all connected. So, Jessica, thank you for coming on. You did. I know you said you were nervous before we started recording, but you did fantastic. I sure couldn't tell.

So nervous. But you made it safe for me, Ron, so thank you so much.

Oh, you're welcome.

It was a real pleasure.

All right, well, take care, Jessica. Thanks again for coming on.

Yeah, you too.

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