GA 388 | Your Brain and a Parachute with Chandan Dey

Our brain is saving our life when parachute is also saving our life when we are in danger. But both the things only work when it opens. So if human brains are not open, it doesn't work. And similarly if the parachute doesn't open at the right time, we are in really in difficult situation.

Today I'm excited to welcome Chandan Day to the show. Now Chandan and I had met each other I guess over LinkedIn, exchanged a few messages and I was really excited to find finally have them on the show. And really the topic of today is the idea of 3P. The concept, the principle of 3P and it's one of those lean tools that's very powerful. It's been around for a long time but for some reason it's not always practiced as much as some of these other tools that we're all kind of familiar with or some of these principles I should say that we're all familiar with. But Shannon is, as you're going to hear, has a lot of experience. He's got a really, really diverse and strong background, mostly manufacturing, but also some non manufacturing. But we really walk through some really nice examples of where he used 3p. She he, he has some really good trainers from some consulting companies that he'll talk about. And yeah, and so he just sort of walks through a couple different examples of some of these events that he's done. And he had a line towards the end of the of the podcast that I think is going to leave an indelible mark in my lean soul. He talked about I won't say the whole thing so I want you to hear let say it. But he talks about the, the how your brain and a parachute, they have something in common as it relates to really continuous improvement but just really life in general. Your brain and a parachute. So you'll have Chandan will have to explain it all. That's towards the end but really fun episode. I think you're gonna like it. Show notes can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 388. And if you do want to learn a little bit more about 3P, Gemba CA Academy does have a really cool course. Mike Robleski facilitated it a few years ago. This was more of a hospital 3P event and talking about sort of speaking to a group of hospital executive on who are trying to design a new aspect of their hospital. So Mike walked him through and did a really, really nice job. So yeah, check that over. It's in our school of lean over@gembaacademy.com okay, all right, enough for me. Let's get to the show. Chandan, welcome to the show. How are.

I'm fine. Ron, how are you today?

I'm doing great. Doing great. All right, well. Hey, where are you calling in from today, Chandan?

Ron, I'm calling from London. The exact location of basically it's Langley around I would say that 20 minutes driving from central London.

Okay, very good, very good. All right, well I appreciate you coming onto the show. I know we've interacted a little bit over LinkedIn and, and but it's, it's fun to, to finally have you. I tell you what, Shandon, I know you listen to the show and we do like our guests to share a quote. So do you have one?

Yes, of course. So I have a quote. You know, this quote is very close to my heart. And again this quote I have learned from. Of course it's a Tai Chi code because in my career of lean Six Sigma professionals, you know lots of tools we are using of course in lean manufacturing and Six Sigma and all those stuff. But the most favorite tools which normally like it's called value stream map and which normally all the lean professional knows about it. And this quote is related to value stream map which Taichi Ohono has explained that all we are doing is looking at the timeline from the moment customer gives an order and we receive the cash. And what we are doing we are just eliminating the non value added waste from the process. So this basically I would say that it's a real lean principle related tools. And I like it though it's just some kind of traditional lean thinking lean process. But I like this quote very much and what I learned from this code specifically that it's not only applicable for business process improvement but this code is applicable for our real life as well. So whatever we normally do, it's also applicable and you know, if the time permits on I just want to give a short example how I'm using these tools in my personal life as well.

Yeah.

Because I'm very, very much passionate about building my morning routines and morning habits. So every the morning when I wake up I took my running shoes and my running dress and go to my treadmill and spend some time and you know, and when I initially started this building this morning habit, it sometimes takes longer time to prepare and sometimes I miss this morning habit as well because it takes longer time. So what I decided I'll try to identify the waste in this process and then I identify lots of things like I try to make sure. That one day before, on the previous day, my running shoes exactly at the right location with, with all my running dress available and try to make sure that my treadmill is absolutely fine, well conditioned and there is no obstacles in front of the treadmill because you know, the house I'm staying in in London, it's not a big house. So I try to make sure that in front of my treadmill nothing is obstacles. I make sure that everything's perfect so that in the morning time when I wake up I can directly go and take my running source, take my running desk and start switch on my treadmill and then start working and spending some time on the treadmill. So you know, whatever normally we are doing at this moment, I try to identify the waste in the process and try to reduce that wastage so that we can make it more efficient and effective. And it's a very powerful tool, you know. And honestly speaking, I just want to add one more point here. So a couple of days before when I was reading a book written by James Clear about the atomic habit and I thought that this is a powerful message he has given in this book.

Yes.

To keep our morning routine and habit as simple as possible. So before I used to spend lots of time on the treadmill, maybe sometimes 40, 45 minutes. And that is one of the reason sometimes we miss it because our target is so high and stretch. Target.

Yes.

So I try to make that, make that habit very small and very effective. And I try to keep it only 15 minutes time depending on the treadmill. And, and there is a KPI set also there. So I put a KPI that every 15 minutes if I spend on the treadmill I should run at least 2.2 and a half kilometers. So that is I. That is my target on the morning routine.

Nice.

So you know this, this quote is really powerful. I like it.

Oh, that's so good. It's so good. In fact, you know, you're talking about, you know, you're having your running shoes ready and no obstacles in front of your treadmill. I mean these are also examples of things that we might do when we're doing say quick changeover or smed, right? When we talk about, you know, prepare for the changeover, get everything organized and ready. That way once the machine stops, you're not wasting time looking for things, you're organized. So this is a beautiful example, you know, of lean in action, you know, in an everyday life. So that's really, really good. I like it. So Chandan, tell us a little bit about your Background. Tell us about how you first came to learn about continuous improvement and then tell us what you're up to these days.

Yeah, maybe I can bring you a couple of years. Before when I started my career, I had been graduated in the year of 2004. And then after graduating on engineering, I got a job in my first company. And probably you might knowing the name of the company called Tata Steel. So I used to work in one of the subsidiaries company of Tata Steel. And after my completion of my training program, I have been assigned a role in production department. So I used to work like a shift in charge where we used to monitor the production targets and the numbers and making sure that the machines are running well. So all those staffs. And after doing that production job couple of months, I realized that I'm not liking this job too much. So when I thought that I was looking for a new role and in the meantime that was back in 2005, our company was going for implementing TPM total productive maintenance. And then my general manager told me that Chandan, there's an opportunity. Do you want to take this role as a. As a TPM coordinator? So I accepted that role. And that is how I come into the role of Lean manufacturing and tpm. That is how the career has been started. And then subsequently spending lots of time with the Japanese consultant and consultants like Watanabe and Yamaguchi. And there are lots of consultants we used to meet for TPM activities. Then finally from Tata Steel I moved to another organization called Tata Motors. Again that was one of the Tata Group of company. So that company was also working on TPM and Lean Manufacturing principle. It's a massive company and it's an automobile company. So that is how I got tremendous interest on Lean Manufacturing. And I get to get in touch with Singijisu consultant and Singijitsu consultant. We had a. We had a long term partnership with Tata Motors. So almost every month or alternate month the Japanese consultant used to come here in our factory and we used to organize large size of Kaizen event. You know, it's a massive factory and the massive. There are lots of departments. So we used to organize lots of Kaizen event with the consultant. And that is how I got inspired to build my career on Lean manufacturing and the continuous improvement role basically. And then subsequently from that company I went to Saudi Arabia, worked with Coca Cola. And then finally I come to this company. The name of the company called Smith Group of company. But again under Smith Group there are lots of divisions are there? And I used to work in John Crane probably you might be knowing the name of John Crane. So that was the company I used to work on the Smith Group. And then from John Crane I moved to UK and then finally that is how I landed in London basically, you know.

Yeah. Wow. You've had a very busy career so far. Lots of great experience.

You know this honestly speaking Ron, I get in touch with the different companies and the different process like steel manufacturing companies and then automobile companies and then beverage company like Coca Cola which has a fantastic operational excellence model across the globe. And then subsequently in Smith Group and Smith also over the last couple of years we have developed a fantastic excellence model. So I would say yes, I got a lots of opportunities of working with the different people and the different process and try to absorb as maximum as possible.

Yeah, fantastic. Now I also understand Chandan that you have some nice experience utilizing the the lean tool, the lean concept of of 3 p. Is this right?

Yes, absolutely. You know, this is one of the thing I would say that my working with Singijistu consultant that is one of the positive advantage for me to learn about the 3P principle. And we used to organize 3P large sites guys and even to improve our layout introductions of the new process. So yes, I get in touch with the Singijitsu consultant and basically learn the 3P concept from there.

Got it. So for those that might not be familiar maybe just give a quick explanation on what 3P is all about.

Yeah, definitely. I can share some information about 3P. Of course. You know, I believe that this 3P concept production preparation Production process preparation this Kaizen nowadays are getting more popular day by day. But honestly speaking it was not so much popular like our other lean tools and principle was so. So this particular process we are using for different improving different process like new product introductions and of course it is being used for our greenfield projects. And also we are heavily using 3P principle for developing the new layout because when our demand changes and we have a and new facilities to put up we try to make sure that at the beginning of our factory and the process established we make sure that everything is properly placed so that we not only we improve our lead time improve improve throughput and efficiency but we want to use our financial capex properly. So tripi not improving the efficiency but it also gives us an opportunity how we can reduce the cost cost avoidance so that we can save money from the company at the starting of inception of the factory. So that is how we are using 3P principle.

So I want to ask you maybe to share two examples of 3p. The latter example will be maybe a favorite event that you personally led. But before that I would be curious to hear if you remember. I don't know if you remember, maybe you don't, but if you remember your very first experience with 3P in some maybe project, maybe consultant leading it, something like that. Do you remember the first time that you practiced 3P?

Yes, of course. You know, I can remember back in back in my Tata Motors career, which was an automobile company, you know. So where we used to use the 3P principle under the guidance of single Jisto consultant. So this particular project we have organized for developing the new assembly line. And it's a massive assembly line in the automobile factory. There are multiple stations. So we used to spend hours and hours of time on the line understanding the process and then developing multiple proposed layout, how the how the people are working on the process and how the materials will be delivered. So all these things we do the thorough study and then we develop the layout. And of course we use Multiple principle of 3P kaizen like process at a glance and then seven ways of alternative ideas, those kind of things. So we used heavily those 3P principle and developed multiple proposals. And then we use, of course we don't use complex tools. We use very simple tools called PUG Matrix. So with the help of PUG Matrix, we normally identify which layout is best for our purpose of the project, which meets our objectives. Then we finally select the best layout proposal. And then when we select the best layout proposal, we try to do the business simulation with the new process. So with the help of Delmia software, we used to do the whole simulation of the new layout, how the process is working, that measures our efficiency on the process and is there any obstacle on the new layout. So with the help of simulation exercise, we can literally see the 3D video, how the people are working, how the materials are transport from one workstation to another workstation, how the materials are being supplied from the warehouse to the line side Kanban store and the line side supermarket. So we used to visualize the whole new layout proposal with the 3D simulation. And then we present those entire findings and the new proposal to our top management. And then we finally do the cost of investment analysis and also making sure that our investment is as minimum as possible so that we can save money. And then finally we prepare the complete execution blueprint and then hand over the blueprint to our planning department who subsequently take it forward the proposal and then implement. It's a massive work we used to do behind the preparation and Then with the help of Kaizen Consultant, it was Monday to Saturday, full exercise. And you know that how Sing Register Consultant normally works. So when they come to the Gemba and then talk to the people and give the suggestion, and then they expect that this suggestion prototype will be developed in the same day, so that in the next morning when the Japanese consultant come, they want to see that prototype is ready, you know, so it was a nice experience working with Singing Jitsu consultant. And that is how I basically learned 3P concepts.

Yeah, I mean, I've been involved with some 3P activities that weren't quite as high tech as you were describing. I remember one time we were laying out a new facility. It was a small area of a factory and we use cardboard boxes, you know, to just literally cut out to mimic the size of the machine and the aisleways and different things like that. Have you ever experienced something like that? Again, it's not as fancy as software, but sometimes just putting the cardboard box there can be very powerful. Have you experienced that at all?

Absolutely. Ron, you know, maybe, you know, the technical process, the technological process which I explained to you doing the 3P layout through the simulation, but that doesn't. I would say that it's not possible for all the companies, you know, because not all the companies has those kind of fancy technological solution, you know, like Tata Motors is a big company, so they have those kind of facilities they can provide. But recently you might be remembering that I reached out to you for a tripikaizen event in one of our facility in Mexico, Tijuana, you can remember. So I exactly use the same principle. Like in our Tijuana, Mexico facility, when we are driving tripikaizen, we literally design the machines and the workbenches, assembly workstation, even the supermarket area. And all those things literally we have developed with the help of polystyrene. We call it Thermocol. So we literally developed the 3D prototype with the help of those kind of things. And then several cases we use cardboard, which is a very cheap solution, but very effective solution, which we can customize and bend the shape whichever way we want to. So the cardboard and polystyrene, these are the Most frequently used 3P consumables where we can develop the 3D model and literally see how the process is working. And we also use the different color coded string. So we color code how the material is moving with the coloring string. And then we can also use another color for WIP movement, We use another color for finished goods movement. So we literally did use the Color coded at different string to show how the materials are moving from one workstation to another workstation and literally explain how the materials are moving from raw material to the finished goods. And that is how we can see the complexity on the process. And you are absolutely correct. That is how we are normally doing.

Yes, I remember we have a course in Gemba Academy on 3pMike Wrobleski, I believe, is facilitating this course. And he's telling the story of they were working in a hospital and they were trying to design a new area of the hospital. And one of the things that they did was they had a nurse get on the hospital bed or the gurney or whatever you call it, and pushing them through the hallway as if they were going to be, you know, what a patient would experience. And they were saying things like, oh my gosh, the lights are very bright, you know, like hitting me in the face. And then also, it's very bumpy. There was some tile maybe on the floor that was bumpy. And so, you know, just experiencing what a patient would experience when they're moving through the hospital was a very powerful learning experience for them as they were looking to, you know, when to build a new area of the hospital to make it even better. So I just love this idea of 3P and experimenting and trying things before. Like you said, we spend all this money, right? And then we realize that, oh my gosh, this is terrible, the lights are too bright and the floor is bumpy, you know, and yeah, it's such a powerful tool that I wish more people would utilize, you know?

Absolutely. You know, this is the beauty of three Pieces Skyzen event where we literally develop the prototype and people can do the role play. So people can be like an operator, they can be a production manager. They can literally go through the process and see if the process is really effective. And that is how we normally validate whether my proposal is accurate. Is it really feasible to meet the objective or. But it's still having. We need to put some more thoughts to develop the new proposal. And that is the beauty. I like Kaizen Principle more now.

The skeptics will say, and there's some skeptics out there on 3P, that it takes too long. And still, when you plan everything and you finally build it, you still find that things aren't perfect. So what would your response be to that? To the skeptic who says this, 3P takes too long and it's still not going to be perfect. Like, what do you think when some people, when someone says that?

So let Me share an example, you know, because again, I. I don't want to take the name those things details, but I can. I can share my experience to you. I was driving Tripika is an event in one of the facilities. And. And that was not a very big facility. It was a small facilities. So when we started introducing the 3P principle for. For the improving the layout and the operation manager of the facility come to me and he told me that Chandan, we have designed this new layout just two years before. And literally I can tell you there is no room for improvement. So literally you cannot do anything because this is the best layout we can design. And honestly speaking, when we finish that Tripikaizen event from Monday to Friday, at the end of the Friday, I would say end of the Thursday, we generated almost six new proposals. Six. And then I asked the operation manager. Now you can simply realize what is the power of 3P kaizen. So this is really powerful. Even if we think that no, there is no room for layout improvement. This is how the process should work. The material should flow and the machines would be located. But when we as a team and generate the ideas and develop the multiple proposal. Yes, there's a huge opportunities for improvement. And when we drive normally, I do it every time when I drive Tripikaizen event, I always give an example to the people that guys try to find out the similarity between human brain and parachute and why I give this example because both are saving our life. Our brain is saving our life when parachute is also saving our life when we are in danger. But both the things only work when it opens. So if human brains are not open, it doesn't work. And similarly, if the parachute doesn't open at the right time, we are in really in difficult situation. So that is how the example I always give to the people before we start Tripika is an event.

This is a beautiful. I'm going to steal that. Chandan. That's so beautiful. I love that. Human brain and parachute both have to be open to work. It's so good. So good. Hey, I'm wondering as we get ready to wrap things up here, Chandanif, maybe you have some.

I don't know.

Do you have any specific advice or tips for people who want to try to learn and execute their own 3p kaizen? Maybe some practical tips or mistakes that you've made? Something like that. What do you think?

Absolutely. You know, I would say that I normally tell all my participants that, you know, 3P kaizen is basically not widely popular tool. So you will not Find lots of study materials and the research and those materials are available on online. And of course I believe there are two books at this moment which is available in the market. So of course I request people to read this book. That is good stuff. But I always request people spend lots of, lots of time before the tripikaizen starts. So I request them to spend at least close to two to three months time on the preparation style, preparation for doing the tripikaizen event and making sure that people capture all the information in terms of process at a glance and then having a very good idea about the process knowledge. So I always recommend them people, guys, please ensure that we have, we have a good team, open minded team and also having sufficient time for the preparation. And then when you start the project, always, always try to open your mind and generate as maximum as possible ideas. Like, you know, lots of the cases we request people when you design the new process, asking them please try to compare your new process with the natural things like Alan Koleta and in his book he has explained that lots of the process things we are normally taken from the nature, like how we are heating, how we are radiating those kind of things. So please try to use those principle incorporate into process and those things gives us a very good, very good trick to generate the new ideas. Yeah, so that is how normally I always suggest people. And one thing I always recommend because you know, I request people that guys, at least on Thursday make sure that you spend lots of time on analyzing the cost of investment. Because of course if we are in hurry we can design a fancy layout. But when you do the cost of investment analysis, that process takes longer time and that gives a huge investment. So we always make sure that do the cost of investment and ROI calculation on Thursday, making sure that before the Thursday finished our investment calculation is absolutely ready. And please put lots of thoughts on questioning do we really need this investment? Like for an example I can give you, Ron. So a couple of years before I was driving a tripikaizen event in Finland and that project was tremendous successful. But you know, when we finally did the cost of investment calculation, we we encounter almost €192,000 of investment. But when you start questioning people that do we really need additional carousel? Do we really need additional additional machine? And then people start thinking and sometimes we go back to the process and understand and that is how we can optimize cost of investment. And we bring down that €192,000 of investment. We bring down to €95,000. It's almost 50 percentage cost avoidance. That is how I always request people please spend lots of time on analyzing the cost of investment and return on investment as well.

Very good. Awesome. Great advice Chanding. Very good. Well hey, how can people best connect with you? I know you're on LinkedIn. Is there any other way that do you want people to find you to connect with you?

Absolutely, Ron. You know I'm very frequent on LinkedIn, so people can always connect to me in LinkedIn and my mail ID is very simple, easy to remember. Chandan k24gmail.com anybody can connect me and I'll be more than happy to connect with them as well.

Okay. Yeah and we'll go ahead and we'll link everything in the show notes. So this will be episode 388 so people just go to gemba podcast.com look for episode 388 and we will link to Shandon's LinkedIn and his email and all this kind of good stuff. So fantastic. Well, this has been really fun Shandon. Thank you for for coming on and I know it's getting the evening time there and in the in the uk. So enjoy your your night and keep up the great work.

Great. John, nice talking to you and thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to share my experience in Game Academy podcast. Yes, thank you very much.

Okay, take care. Bye bye.

Thank you. Bye bye. Take care.

Thanks for listening. Whether you've been on the continuous improvement journey for many years or perhaps you're just getting started, Gemba Academy is here to support you. And while we're best known for our more than 1500 lean and 6 Sigma teaching and virtual tour videos, we also have a team of experienced Lean and Six Sigma practitioners available for one on one coaching as well as a variety of Lean and Six Sigma certification options. To learn more and to schedule a demo, head on over to gembaacademy.com.