GA 403 | Moving the Needle with Robb Holman

You know, when people are down and out, discouraged to where it's a bit of a whirlwind in one's life, a leader's life, they need the help of someone or someones to be in their corner to say when they don't think they can. No, remember, this is who you are, and you will.

Today, I'm excited to welcome Rob Holman back to the show. Now, Rob was on about 100 episodes ago, we figured out, and today we talk about many different things. I suppose the. The primary discussion is on his new book called Move the Needle, How Inside Out Leaders Influence Organizational Culture. But here's the thing, man. Rob comes, like, with next level energy and passion, which is why I love talking to him. And we just go through so much here in this podcast, so just about people and processes, which are going to really ring resonate, if you will, with us lean thinkers. But he tells some very, very powerful stories and in fact, if you can keep the tears from flowing. And the final story that he tells about his grandmother, you're a better, better person than I. So, man, really, really powerful stuff. So give this one a full listen all the way to the end. Gembapodcast.com Episode 403 is where you'll find again, 403gimbapodcast.com and yeah, just really, really appreciate Rob, and I think that you're gonna like this one. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. Rob, welcome back to the show. How's it going?

Oh, man. Ron, it is a total joy and honor to be with you. I thoroughly enjoyed the first time I was on the show not too, too long ago. So thrilled to be back with you yet again.

Do you remember the episode number, what you were on before?

You know, I don't, sadly. Let me get it here.

I got it. It's, you know, 305. Episode 305. And this is 403. So, you know, it's been a few sleeps.

Yeah.

Since we last chatted.

So. Well.

Yeah, I'm excited to have you back on. You got lots of stories and energy and that makes for a good podcast, man.

Well, listen, right back at you. I thoroughly enjoy just who you are and you bring the best out in people and I know. Yeah, you did you do it behind the scenes with me all the time, so I appreciate it so much.

Yeah. Awesome. Hey, man. So, you know, we like to get things rolling with a quote. So do you have one?

I do have a quote, and this is a life quote that I have lived by for years. Matter of fact, Ron, it's something that when my oldest niece was in school, and this is years removed at this point, she was given a project to ask a family member of a life quote that they came up with that they live by. And she knew she could call upon her Uncle Rob. And the quote is, much of the world sees a glass half empty or even half filled, but I always see it overflowing.

What's that really mean to you?

So it's all about perspective. At the end of the day, two people can experience the same event, the same whatever, and let's say it's a challenge. The one kind of starts packing the bags, begins a downward hill spiral of emotion and negativity and whirlwind of anxiousness and fear. But yet the other one actually begins to focus and hone in on a little bit of the good, even in the midst of it. And I'm a firm believer when you look for the good, you'll find it. It's whether or not you're looking for it.

Nice. I like it. So in case folks didn't hear episode 305 or again, it's been a few sleeps since then. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Rob. Tell us about your background and how you got into your kind of current line of work and then what you're up to these days.

Yeah, I appreciate it. So I will go back to when I was 21 years old, ready to embark on arguably the best year of my life, my senior year of college or university. Ron and I was co captain of the basketball team. I am all excited. I am anticipating a great year in basketball, let alone business year as well. I was a business undergrad student. One major problem. I had an extremely painful mass in my abdomen that doctors were not ruling out cancer. And getting in and out of cars was extremely painful. Long story short, about six weeks of having this extremely painful mass, it went without a very clear diagnosis. Doctors were not ruling out cancer. I got CAT scans, MRIs, ultrasounds. The mass was so abnormal, so unusual, they really didn't know exactly what it was. Thus they didn't know how to treat it. You can imagine at this point in my life, 21 years old, entering into my senior year of college, I was a wreck spiritually, emotionally, physically. Dare I say, even like, I was a bit numb to the world. I barely even felt emotions during those six weeks until what I am about to describe to you and your audience radically changed my life. I go in to see an ultrasound specialist at University Pennsylvania Hospital UPenn Hospital, world renowned. This doctor begins to check me out on the ultrasound screen and to his utter amazement, shock on his face, he says, rob, what you came in with today, I don't have adequate words to describe. But you no longer have it anymore. Literally. Ron, it was a modern day miracle that leading up to this point in my life, purpose for me was winning the next basketball game. It was hanging out with my friends and having a good time. But you better believe, coming out of this miracular set of circumstances, miraculous set of circumstances, I started asking a different set of questions I'd never asked before. Here's what they were. Who am I really? Who's the sphere of influence that I have on this planet the way no one else on this planet has but me? And third, how can I steward this sphere of influence in a way for the rest of my life? Little did I know that now, over 25 years later, I'd be serving leaders all around the world with what's become known as my inside out leadership philosophy. I'm still amazed by it. I'm 46, I feel like I'm 5 and I would not, not want to be doing anything else than what I'm doing today.

I love it. Inside out leadership. Give us a quick insight into what that's all about.

Yeah, in a nutshell, you can only give what you got. So a lot of leaders are focused or obsessed with a bit more of the outside techniques and strategies trying to get into the heart and the mind of the worker. So if you think about for a minute, I mean, it's admirable, it's even somewhat praiseworthy, notable that they're doing such things because they want to be a good steward of what they've been given. But inside out leadership is all about starting at the heart of the worker, the mind of the worker, what makes them come alive, what inspires them to greatness, to where they're not doing things out of a place of I should, I ought, I got to fulfill this project by a certain date. As much as this is who I am and I'm compelled to accomplish this task at hand, it's out of a completely different as opposed to outside trying to get in, I'm like, let's start in the inside so it works itself out. And I find that the greatest leaders, the most effective leaders, talking about peak performance, they operate and function out of that very deep inner place.

The thrust of the conversation today is going to be on your new book, but before we get to that, I want to talk just a Little bit more about this. So we want to go inside the worker and bring out their best. Right. So I know you've got a basketball background, played pro basketball and, you know, coached and played, and your family is a big basketball family. So I know sports are a big part of your life. So maybe there's, there's, there's, there's parallels here between the two worlds that we're talking about. But let's say you have a young athlete or an employee who, you know, has so much potential, but for whatever reason, you know, they're doubting themselves or they're, you know, they don't believe in themselves or something bad has happened to them in the past and they're, they have some inner turmoil or damage or whatnot. How do we, how do we get in there and help them bring out the best? Because they just might not have it in them themselves to do it. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Oh, I totally get you. I think it's a wonderful question. I think five things to help them with. Again, they can't do it themselves. You know, when people are down and out, discouraged, confused, I mean, you put in any, any motion in there to where it's a bit of a whirlwind in one's life, a leader's life. They need the help of a coach, a faithful friend, a family member, someone or someones to be in their corner to say when they don't think they can. No, remember, this is who you are, and you will. So five things to consider. Ron, I think are really important. Helping someone discover, or what I call rediscover their identity really, at the end of the day so that they can give out of this full place right there. It is that much of the world either sees the glass half empty or half filled, but I always see it overflowing. Five things to consider. One, what are your personal core values? The things that, and I'm not talking professional values, team values, et cetera. I'm telling you, what are your personal core values? The things that you stand firm in, that you stand by, in which you're making decisions out of this very deep place all day long, but may not feel fully realize it number one second. What are your top strengths ever since you were a little kid, a little boy or girl, the things that came a bit more naturally to you to where there's just an abundance of fruit. It wasn't as much work involved as much as, man, this is pretty seamless. And look at the fruit around me. That just begins to Come out. Third aspect to consider is passions. What are your greatest passions in life? The things that literally have you leaping out of boundaries, bed in the morning, which to accomplish that, you don't have to push the snooze button. You're actually up before the alarm even goes off because you're so excited and overjoyed in which to do to accomplish this thing or these things. Fourth, and this is a biggie, what are your personal life milestones? The things in your life that when you encounter them, it could be something of great and tremendous blessing or tremendous heartache. But these are the things that when they happen to you, it's almost like in that moment, whether we realize it or not, a stake was put in the ground that we knew we would never be the same person moving forward. In other words, they've helped shape us to become the person we are today. Listening to this podcast, the fifth and final area is what do you believe your primary gift that you have been given in life is so gift meaning that you have become a gift. You are a gift upon the earth. And it's like you're a legacy that you leave behind the earth when you're no longer here, but while you're living, you're allowing the world to unwrap you. Is it that you are a gifted leader, a gifted empath, or an empathetic person? How about a gifted encourager? Whatever the case is, what would you consider your primary gift to be? I have found that when you wrap your arms around these five practical things, it's an opportunity for you to not only discover, rediscover who you are, but truly begin to embrace your unique identity and then begin to give to others within your sphere of influence out of that place.

I love it. I love it. Okay, move the needle. How Inside out Leaders influence organizational culture. So it's your newest book, Right? It's your latest book. In the Beginning, chapter one, you sort of come right out and I don't know how else to say it, but punch people right in the face with the story. At least you did me. And I was like, you're very observant, Rob. Like the first paragraph.

Okay, here we go.

I don't want to spoil it maybe for people that are going to read the book, but maybe you could tell us a little bit about that opening story because it's extremely powerful.

Yeah. And it lets us into the heart of an extreme fashion, into the heart of a human to human exchange. And that's really what we're after as leaders. I know with Gemba, for instance, the importance of building people up, empowering people through training, coaching, etc. So what I'm about to share, and I'll keep this succinct, this opening story, it does keep people catch people off guard a little bit, but it lets people into what genuine human, human connection is all about and how we can lead effectively out of that place. So I'll at least whet people's appetite. RON so my wife and I are enjoying an amazing movie. Now, she was not my wife at the time we were dating, so this is over. You know, we've been married 17 and a half years, so it's, let's say 18 and a half years ago, remember years ago it was, you know, I don't, sadly, however, however, I remember the feeling and the mood because of what I'm about to describe to you. I knew we are enjoying a movie on a Friday night, work week. It passed, you know, the whole setting, the environment, and I get this alarming call. And on the other end of the line is this young man. And clearly his voice was shaky, he was slurring his speech, he was not well. I knew he was under the wrong kind of influence, whether it's drugs, alcohol, combination of both. And these words come flying out of his mouth on the phone line, I want to kill myself. And you can imagine a moment of time like that. Perhaps some of the listeners have dealt with that in their own family, I don't know, or in their life, team members lives or whatever. But in that moment, as a young man, I was paralyzed with fear. I didn't know what to do. Now, what we might need to know about the story. Just about two weeks prior, I was involved with our local church. At the time and after the teaching, the formal teaching, I was a part of a group of counselors and people that would pray for people and care for people. Really at the end of the sermon or the teaching, those that were moved by the teaching could come up front to receive care. And I was a part of that team. RON I'll forget, I'll never forget it. It's like yesterday, this young man comes up to me, tears rolling down his face, and he begins to share deep and dark secrets of his life. I could barely hear him because there's music playing. So I said, can we go into another room so I can hear you better? He proceeds to tell me that he struggled with severe depression, alcohol and drugs. And in that moment, in that time, all I knew is that I wanted him to be well. I wanted him to be cared for. So I encouraged him in that time with just planting some seeds of, like, your life matters. You're important apart from every person on the planet. You just need to know that. And I also said this, that if you ever find yourself in a troubled time or moment, here's my phone number. Call me. Well, guess what? That Friday night, that's the young man that called me. And in the book, I lay out a little bit more of what happened and the exchange that I had with him and then the effect that that exchange had on not only his life, on my life as I learned to serve him and serve him well. So just a little insight into the story.

So, I mean, not to leave a complete cliffhanger, but I assume, and I read it, that the young man ended up okay, right? I mean, he did.

He did. He. Basically, unbeknownst to me, there was a miraculous set of circumstances to where he was so down and out when I visited him after that phone call. And just through some care and through what I call some love and some service, he got back on his feet again. And community, one by one, started to surround him and started to practically help meet his needs, help him understand his situation. And isn't that true of us as leaders, is we have an opportunity, as we take a look at whether it be our family members, our team members in the workplace, that there are those, and probably more than we'd like to admit, that are struggling not just in what they're doing in the work world workforce, but perhaps in their own life personally. And we have an opportunity as leaders to serve, to get to know them. Not to say every time we serve them or meet a need has to turn into a full fledged counseling session. But there is an opportunity, Ron, to really get to know people's hearts, really get to know their needs personally and professionally, and then as a leader, come alongside of them to help them in different shapes and forms.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love it. I love it. All right, well, so the way that you've got this book organized, as far as I can tell, is three. Three sections, three parts, Purpose, principles, part one, people, principles, part two, and process, part principles, part three. So purpose, people, process. It's an interesting order. I mean, for sure, purpose makes sense. Start with why Simon Sinek. Right. We've all heard that. Right? And then. But talk a little bit about the reason that you start with people and then you go to process.

Yeah, thanks for bringing that out. A lot of times when people read it, it almost appears to be step one, step Two, step three. For me, the longer I live my life and the influence that I've had from some of my eastern friends, I've done work in Dubai and Afghanistan, the Middle East. They've awakened me to some things. I think in the west, we tend to think of things very categorical nature. In other words, if I can place something in this slot, then I move to this slot, then I move. I'm not against certain processes and systems that require that at all. However, I view the purpose, people, processes more as an integrated whole. So in other words, yeah, you may have processes you're working on, but are you considering at the forefront, in the center, the people behind them? When you're considering purpose in one's life or in one's professional walk or life or team, are you considering their personal purpose just as much, if not more than their professional one? When you think of people, are you keeping in mind the processes or the purpose behind them? So for me, it's almost like going from categorical boxes that you jump in and out of into a wheel with many spokes mentality. And at the core of it is your identity. Like, who are you really? And it gets back to my story I shared with you earlier, as well as everyone listening has their own story, and that's the core. That identity piece, I think is important. So as you add different spokes to the wheel, it's more of that integrated whole. But we're anchored in our identity, not just as a working professional with the titles and the responsibilities that we have, because I know many of us can wear that with like a proud badge of honor. But it's more when you're stripped of all those things, who are you really as a unique human being. So hopefully that answers your question, more of an integrated whole and less as step one, step two, step three, love it.

You also, on the people side of things, you write about the importance of first impressions. What's that all about? Talk about first impressions and the importance of them.

Yeah. So I'm sure you and I and most of our listeners have read Jim Collins work good to great and some of his other work as well, which is exceptional work with his studies, his research, his data that backs up at the end of the day, getting the right people on the bus. And once we have the right people on the bus heading in the right direction. Okay. So I like to hone in on making a great first impression means everything in relationship, especially when you're recruiting really, really good people. So it's like that first impression is we have A tenth of a second, up to seven seconds. Statistics that really argue this point quite well to make that lasting first impression. Now, Ron, I'm going to press you on something. Let's say you make a horrible first impression. You're interviewing someone for a. And you as the interviewer, okay, you're looking to recruit the right people on the right bus heading in the right direction. And let's say you get off on the wrong foot as the interviewer and you, you mess up the first impression. They could be competent, they could be an exceptional person, but yet you mess it up on your end. How many subsequent meetings with that individual would you guess it would take to make up for lost ground?

A bunch, I would say. I don't know, five to 10.

You're spot on. It takes about seven. So let's get it right the first time. So I really try to encourage people on the front end when we're trying to find not just really competent people, but people personally and professionally that really align with the company and the team values. And that's making a great first impression and really setting them up to make a great first impression as well. And let me give you a real practical example. The temptation is for any person that's interviewing is to ask more business like questions, right? Because we're hiring people for this role, this title, with these responsibilities. I get it, we're going to get there, don't worry. But how about, or perhaps asking a question like this that gets into them as a human being first, hey, what are some things that have happened in your life that helped shape you to become the person you are today? Now, it might sound familiar to the listeners that's under the life milestones of your identity that we went over not too long ago. And I find asking a question like that, it's digging deep into what makes a person come alive, what matters a lot to them. And as the interviewer, as someone who's really trying to recruit the right people, we quickly have the opportunity to align people not based on what they do as much as who they are. And that's what I mean, to move the needle that we want to actually put people before procedures for greater results. And I think it really begins with making a great first impressions by who you are, the questions that you ask to open up dialogue in and out of that place.

Yeah, yeah. Part three Process principles. I want to. So obviously the audience listening, many of us are sort of lean thinking practitioners. You know, we're all about productivity, efficiency while balancing and honoring respect for people and it's all, it's all contained together. So we are very passionate about efficiency. So in chapter eight, you write about efficiency through effectiveness. I wonder if you could elaborate on what you mean by that.

Yeah. Now, if you haven't seen the passion come out up to this point, Ron, you're sure probably going to hear as well as the listeners on this, because activity doesn't always equate to the best activity. Sometimes we think the more activity. And I'm moving and shaking. I'm making this happen. I'm crossing the T's, I'm dotting the I's. This project's getting done, this is getting done and it's a lot of activity. The only problem I found with leaders is looking under the hood of that car a little bit more to say, ah, but is it truly the best activity? In other words, are we being as effective as we possibly can? And I think a lot of that hinges on our priorities. What are our priorities in any given season and when we really visit or revisit our priorities, not talking about team priorities, project priorities, whatever the case is. And you and I know, I mean, not just in the lean culture and ways of doing things, but just in business, organizational culture at large, things move so fast, fast. And before long it's like you buy a car off the lot, it's old. You buy the newest computer, iPhone or whatever. I'm an I user. But you buy the latest I product and all of a sudden everyone's like, oh, are you thinking about getting the next model? I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I just want to enjoy the one I'm in. My point is this, that things move so rapidly. So for us to visit and revisit priorities, goals, how things have changed, expectations that we have on each other, the team at large, the project at hand, now we're actually setting ourselves up and setting the table to being more effective. I find that some organizations and some leaders, they don't do it nearly enough. And all of a sudden they complete a task, they complete a project only to find out it's like the old car that they bought that's gone right out style right quick because they haven't done their due diligence enough within the team dynamics, within the project at hand to taking a fresh look. So when we are committed to do that on an ongoing, inconsistent basis now, the appropriate shifts and changes could be made along the way, then that's what I mean by being effective. And I think too, Ron, wherever we just take a look at our Calendar right wherever we spend our time is truly the attitude of our heart. And really so I think even like recalibrating things once in a while, weekly, bi weekly, monthly, to say, how am I really spending my time? Am I prioritizing my time to be as effective as I possibly can for the outcome and the output that I and the team truly want to have? And I think if we're honest, sometimes we are, sometimes we're not. So efficiency through effectiveness.

Leaving a legacy. Talk about that. It's chapter 10.

So leaving a legacy for me, my oldest living grandparent, over a year and a half, a little over a year ago now, she passed away and we called her Gammy ron. She died 10 days before her 102nd birthday.

Wow.

Think about that. Absolutely amazing. Weeks before she passed away, I visited her in the midst of COVID and I had to gown up, I had to wear the face mask, she's in a nursing home, etc. I had this one exchange, I think speaks to Legacy. I had this one exchange for her. She was in and out of sleep. My visit with her was probably about an hour and 15 minutes, give or take and probably good eye contact. Time where we were doing some bit of speaking was only about 20 minutes. There was one moment in our exchange, I looked directly in her eyes, Ron, and I said to my grandmother, you are so beautiful. And nearly 102 years old, this little girl in her came completely alive. I still remember, I am getting goosebumps. I still remember the look on her face when I spoke into her eyes, really into her heart and I said those words. That time was priceless. What you didn't know about that story, she became forgetful down the home stretch of her life. I didn't know after I said those words, would she ever remember what I said? All I knew is in that 10 second exchange that in that moment she did. That's what legacy is all about. You know, in the workplace, for instance, in our personal lives too, which I just communicated. But in our workplace, are we spending time connecting personally, even more so than professionally with each team member, are we truly, truly committed and consistent in getting to know them? And in that exchange, soaking it in as though they were the only person on the planet and everyone else and everything else begin to fade away. And I have found practically really leveraging one to one times with our team members provide that opportunity. But even how we utilize those one to one times, I know we have a lot of listeners. It's like the temptation is great for us to dive into the Problems. I get it. There is a place for that. That is what Lean is all about, is problem solving and caring for people. But are we willing to really care for the heart and have that point of connection and being present so the person feels valued, appreciated, respected, and as a natural result, they're compelled to move, to act on whatever the task is at hand?

Yeah. Wow. Wow, that was a very touching story. My oldest daughter, Kylie, she's actually in college right now interning to learn about film and audio and whatnot. And so she's interning here at Gemba Academy. She's editing these podcasts. And I promise you, she was crying just now when he just told that story. So she's listening right now, so she's probably shaking her head up and down, so. Well, thank you for sharing that very touching story. And it's. And I feel like, you know, where we're looking at each other right now on Over Zoom, and your presence is so authentic, and I could just imagine that scene of you just sort of leaning over and just looking into her eyes, and I feel like that moment, that connection. So often we don't do that enough with these stupid phones that we have in our pockets. And now the metaverse coming, and, my gosh, we might not ever look at another real person again, you know, but being able to connect and just truly be with another person, right? Like just you and them talking, really listening is. It's almost a forgotten art now, you know, and we always were quick to blame or point our fingers at the young people, like my daughter and her crowd, you know, that age, you know, teenagers, and they're texting and all the rest of it. But if we're being truthful, us grownups aren't much better. You know what I mean? And where did they learn it from? Where did they learn it from? From us, you know, So I feel like getting back to connecting people person to person is really. I don't know, it might be one of my goals for 2022 is just to do a better job of that because it's so, so important.

I think you're. Thank you for your honesty there with just within your own family dynamics. And that's the same with us. I have three kids, as I shared before the recording, 13, 11, and soon to be six. And Ron, I tend to think, am I being as present with my family, with my team members in a way that I need to be? So by no means by even me sharing out of a place of deep conviction and passion, that I have my act entirely Together. I need to hone in on some things today heading into the new year as well. That so I could be a better steward of not only the people entrusted to my care, but again my inside out ways. I want to be the best steward of myself so I can give out of that place to other people.

Love it. Rob, if folks want to connect with you, first of all, if they want to get the book I spoke Amazon and all the normal places books are are sold. Right? Move the needle. How inside out leaders influence organizational culture and we're going to obviously link to it in the show notes. So this is episode four.03. So just go to gembapodcast.com, look for episode 403 or literally scroll down on the app that you're listening to this on and you'll see the link right there. But if folks want to connect with you personally, what's the best way? LinkedIn, where are you at?

Feel free to reach out to me in any social media network outside of right now TikTok, which my oldest child's like, dad, what are you going to get on TikTok? I'm like, not yet, but LinkedIn would be probably the best way. But I'm on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook as well. And then I just say robholman.com we have a lot of free resources, inside out leadership resources book. Like you said, anywhere books are sold movetheneedlebook.com if you just want to check out a little bit more of the book and what we have, you can download a free preview chapter as well.

So when it's a unique spelling here people, it's R o B B 2B's and then Holman is H O L M A N. So and again, we'll link to that in the show notes, episode 403 Gimbapodcast.com so Rob, man, thanks again for coming on. I know we'll do it again for a third time down the road, but yeah, maybe let's not wait 100 episodes. I don't know.

That sounds good. Listen, the honor is all mine. Thrilled to be able to have a conversation with you today and Congrats on your 400th episode, which was what, three episodes again now. So kudos to you guys. You're doing a lot right, Ron, and just serving leaders all over and so thanks for who you are.

All right, thank you. Take care. Rob. Thanks for listening. Whether you've been on the continuous improvement journey for many years or perhaps you're just getting started, Gemba Academy is here to support you. And while we're best known for our more than 1500 Lean and Six Sigma teaching and virtual tour videos, we also have a team of of experienced Lean and Six Sigma practitioners available for one on one coaching, as well as a variety of Lean and Six Sigma certification options. To learn more and to schedule a demo, head on over to gembaacademy.com.