GA 467 | What Makes a Brilliant Process with Andy Reith

You know, the Japanese culture is very much about being part of the group, very group oriented. You're all doing this as a team. We're not relying on superstars and everybody's just sort of picking them up like, no, you're all part of this team. Whether you are a superstar or not, you're all relatively equal.

Today I'm excited to welcome Andy Reith back to the show. Now, last time Andy came onto the podcast was back in February 2020. So we were sort of reminisc seeing that boy. We didn't know what was about to come with this whole Covid thing. So anyhow, it was good to catch back up with Andy to hear what he's been up to. So Andy, as he'll explain when he tells us about his background, is former Toyota guy and now he's actually working in boot manufacturing, working for a really cool company called Origin, which is one of the. One of the, I believe, co founders is Jocko Willink, and so doing some really cool stuff up there in Maine. So we talk about Andy's kind of journey with. With continuous improvement and lean, what he did at Toyota. Some of the. Told us some of the Toyota stories, but then how he transitioned into becoming a consultant and then now running this boot business basically. And it's a very booming growing company and so they're trying to aggressively grow. So yeah, really lots to talk about. His quote is a really interesting one and we actually spent some time dissecting the quote, probably a little bit more time on the quote unquote episode than normal, but I think you'll see why. Anyhow, show notes can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 467. Again gembapodcast.com look for episode 467. Okay, enough for me. Let's get to the show. Hey, Andy, welcome back to the show.

How's it going, man? Great. Great to be here. Thanks for having me back.

Yeah. So, yeah, when was last time we were chatting? I guess it was right before the calm, before the storm, so to speak.

Yeah, I just looked it up and it aired at least in late February of 2020, so no idea what was about to happen.

Yeah, yeah. My gosh. Yeah, A lot's happened since then, so. Well, I'm glad to have you back on and we got a lot of catching up to do and excited to hear about what you're up to these days, but. Well, you know, Andy, from being on before, we do like to get started right out of the gate with Our guest sharing a quote. So what do you got?

So what's on my mind lately is a quote. It's a little unclear who actually said it. There's Mr. Watanabe or Mr. Cho, both former Toyota presidents. And they said we get brilliant results from average people managing brilliant processes. And I think there's a lot of power in that. You know, when it comes to the hiring challenges that everybody's facing right now, we would all love to have just a team full of brilliant people. But if we create the right systems, then, you know, I feel like I was one of those average people. I wasn't any, anything special at Toyota. I got to see how a brilliant process works and so now I'm, I'm trying to replicate that.

Nice, nice. Well, speaking of your, your background, tell us a little bit just in case, folks, we're going to link to our previous episode down in the show notes so folks can go back and, and listen to that one. But tell us a little bit about your background, Andy, and, and, and then, and then what you're up to these days.

Sure. So I was hired at Toyota as a production engineer in 2006 and I worked there for 11 years doing production engineering, capital projects. So I was part of the North American group at the time, based out of Erlinger, Kentucky. So we would go around wherever the capital project was, new plant expansion, model changes, we would do the entire project from feasibility studies through specking out equipment, installing the equipment, commissioning it and turning it over to the local plant. So a lot of, spend a lot of money, which really at the time, you know, a 23, 24 year old kid, you're like, holy crap, this is big time. So it was just incredible experience. I got great, great knowledge in project management, being part of the group that I was. But then of course all of the lean things being part of Toyota, you get that as well. So it was just an unbelievable time. So I did that for 11 years and then I decided to leave as part of when they did the reorganization where most of the company moved to Plano, Texas. They reorganized. My group was going down to Georgetown, Kentucky where they're still based. So grew up in, in Ohio. My wife's from Ohio. We met at Ohio State. So we decided that's, that's where we want to live. Yeah, yeah. So that's where I'm at now. So at that time I dipped into consulting for a few years.

There's every former Toyota person does. Right.

You know, why not?

Right?

It's fun to see how everybody else does it? And. Yeah, try to guide them a little bit.

Heck, yeah.

And, you know, so I. I was doing that during the last podcast that we recorded, and when Covet hit, really dried up the in person consulting model.

Yeah.

So I was, you know, struggling. I was like, what am I going to do? Nobody's going to bring any stranger into a factory to try to help them. And I ended up making face shields in my garage for like a month. You know, I just had to find something that I could do to stay busy and do something. So I got lucky. I was able to sell those and, you know, it helped out to get through until. At the time, I was consulting with a company pretty heavily called Origin. That's where I work full time now. So I think it's like June 1st when they brought me back in to help with their operations. At the time time, they were just ramping up a line making jeans, and they had just started making boots. So I was helping in both of those groups as a consultant and as a. As a result of COVID the tannery that the boot line was using, which is about an hour away from the factory in Maine that shut down in August or September of that year, and that was the single source of leather for the company. And there's only three or maybe four tanneries in America right now that can make boot leather.

Oh, wow.

Serious supply chain issues. At the time. I made a proposal to our owner, Pete Roberts. I said, you know, let me really dig into footwear for a little bit and decide, is this something that we want to pursue? You know, it's going to take a lot of resources to formulate the new leathers that we want to use. And. And maybe this isn't the greatest idea right now. Maybe. Maybe we shouldn't be doing footwear. Let's focus on apparel. So I did that as a consultant for about three months before I got offered the job to run the whole division. And I thought, why not? So I've been running Origins footwear division since January 1st of 2021. So just over two years, officially. Wow.

So are you allowed to kind of tell us the end of the story as far as tannery goes and all that? Like, what you guys did, or. Or is it confidential? I get it.

No, they shut that tannery down. And actually the Department of Defense reached out to us and said, would you guys be willing to take this over? You know, we can help with grant funding and do you want to run a tannery? And so Pete thought about it for a little bit. He's like, this is, this is too much. We can't take this on right now. So we did not. But we worked with one of the existing tanneries, Sidell out of Milwaukee. And so they've been a great partner. They helped us get back going and now we have a good, relatively stable supply of leather to keep making boots.

Wow. So.

Wow.

I got a lot of things on my mind. I actually, including the quote that we started with. I actually want to circle back to it this and then, and then I want to come back to, to hear more about what you guys are up to. Because I gotta believe you're doing something, you know, as part of, as your day, of your day job. But you know the thing that always strikes me about that quote and you, you even touched on it about average people, brilliant processes and that sort of thing. Like, how do you think. I mean, you're clear. You called yourself average, but I don't know, I think you're probably above average. Andy. But like, like the mindset of that quote, when you really get into it, like, do you think that toy people that heard that they were like, what the heck, man? Like, we're average, you know, like, and our competitors are brilliant Because I think the second part of that quote, I don't think he said it, but if I remember it right, is something about the competitors having brilliant people but bad processes and so that's why we can beat them. Like, what do you think? Is there, was there any, like, I don't know, potential damage done with, with that mindset? Even though it may have been true, like what's, what's your thoughts on that? We're still at a pretty hardcore. They don't care. Don't get your feelings hurt.

It's been a few years now, so I'm trying to get back in that mindset. I think a lot of people recognize there they are. I think average has a negative connotation. Typical might be a better word. Typical people can do great things if they have structure. And that doesn't mean you're not a hard working person.

Right.

But we're not all 140 IQ geniuses out here changing the world.

Yeah.

And, and having that structure, you know, I could see how potentially it could be construed as, you know, we aren't really that good. But you know, the Japanese culture is very much about being part of the group, very group oriented. You're all doing this as a team. We're not relying on superstars. Yeah. And everybody's just sort of picking them up like no, you're all part of this team. Whether you are a superstar or not, you're all relatively equal.

Yeah. They also talk about obviously brilliant processes in that quote. So, like, what does a brilliant process look like to you? Have you seen many brilliant processes? Have you been involved in many brilliant processes?

So you're making me think now. Brilliant process. But to me, a brilliant process is one that's clearly defined and written out and documented in some way, because it's easy to. You're in a big meeting and you say, all right, this is what we're going to do. This is how things are from now on. But nobody ever writes it down. So the game of telephone, over time, what was said in that meeting changes. So a big part of its clarity and communication is what the process is. And then one of the things that they just drill into you at Toyota is pokey. Okay? Anytime something goes wrong, how do you prevent it from happening again? So how do you create this process where mistakes aren't even possible? And, you know, that could be as simple as, like, data validation and an Excel sheet. You don't give people an option to put the wrong value in. What are the things that you can do in a process to restrict mistakes?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's good stuff. I. I think sometimes of brilliant processes being, you know, because obviously even you. You can automate waste. Right. You could. You could even write down a wrong process. Right. So, like, I. I gotta imagine, like back in the Toyota days, lots of experimenting to see what actually worked. Is that fair?

Yeah. It reminds me of the book the Birth of Lean. Are you familiar with that one? Yeah, I love that book because we have such a glossed over and sanitized version of the Toyota production system in Lean nowadays. Yeah. And they talk in that book about the mistakes that were made and trial and error, and it does a great job of talking about how long it took for these things to come to fruition. It was decades. And something else that I loved in the book is there was a repeated reference to a healthy tension where, you know, you can think about maybe like, KPIs, where you have conflicting KPIs, you know, you can have great quality, but it's going to cost more labor. And how do you set things up where you're trying to maintain a balance with things in tension amongst each other, but not so much that, you know, it's a stressor and it degrades, or.

Even a concept like as basic as 5s can be, can. Can have. We keep the rope tight. Right. Sort of like you can tell if. If an organization is, you know, has really good 5s, you can tell when something's wrong. Right. It's kind of an analogy of keeping the road type. Whereas if it says chaos and you walk into a factory that's a mess or an office that's a disaster, it's hard to tell when something's out of place. Right. Or something's not right. Because everything's out of place. Everything's not right.

So where do you even start?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, all right, well, let's talk a little bit about what I'm. I'm curious. I never really been in a boot factory, I don't think. Yeah, I'm sure of it. In fact, any kind of apparel or anything like that, really, what's it like as far as practicing lean? Like, what are some of the things that you're struggling with? What are some of the problems that you guys battle and how are you going about it?

So I think we were actually lucky in being new to footwear production because there was no. We've always done it this way. Didn't exist. So we came at it from a fresh perspective. How do you start this up? And at the time, you know, I had already been working with the company, there was already a little bit, you know, not even beyond me, within the company, a little knowledge of lean and single piece flow and just in time and these things. So they. They viewed it from a different perspective, which. A lot of footwear production is very batch based, and we have it set up with single piece flow. Right now, there's essentially only one job that is batched, and that is the process where a entire side of leather, which is half a cow, goes onto a CNC table and we can cut four or five pairs of boots out of it. It doesn't make sense to load a piece of leather, cut one boot, take it back off. So, you know, at the moment, that's the only batching. From that point on, everything is processed as a single pair of boots. So it goes into a splitting process where it essentially gets planed to the right thickness. There's skiving, where you're putting a chamfer on some of the edges, and then you stitch things together. Elastic, which is where it takes the shape that determines the sizing and the aesthetic of the boot. And then bottoming, where you're putting the sole on and finishing, you clean up any blemishes. And then in a box. So from the time a piece of leather is placed on our cnc machine. It's about five hours until the finished boot comes off the line. And as I'm learning, because I had no footwear background either, a lot of companies, it'll be three days. Oh, wow. You know, they'll batch 100 pair, they'll sit there overnight and then they'll go into the next, you know, they'll go into stitching and then they'll sit there overnight and it's three, four, five days later before that one comes offline. And especially we have a direct to consumer model. So at the moment, pretty much every pair of boots we make is to order. And the manifest that goes through the line actually has the customer's name on. On the tag. So the workers can all see this is going to Josh Smith and you know, just really aligns well with that single piece flow idea. It's not. This is a batch of boots that some customer is going to buy. Like. No, this is a specific person's boots that you're holding right now. And are you familiar with Jocko Willink?

Oh, yeah.

So I. Little highlight of my career. He actually mentioned me by name on his podcast because he's one of our co owners at the company.

That's right. That's right. Now it's called Coming Back to Me. That's right.

So I was talking about these manifests which came from Toyota. It's pretty common in automotive. The manifest that's on the front of the vehicle tells you exactly what's going into that vehicle, the options and specs. And so we have the same thing for boots, except it also has the customer name on it. Well, in the interest of trying to reduce the information presented to the production workers to reduce mistakes, I took the name off at one point and everybody lost their mind. Like, no, we want to know, we want to know their name. Put it back on. So he referenced that story on his podcast. I do think it's pretty cool. I don't know if we're going to be able to do that forever. We are doubling in size every year.

Yeah.

So that's gonna. There's gonna be some tricky decisions made with that going forward. But yeah, I think one of the biggest things that we have going for us is that single piece flow.

Yeah, yeah. So are you guys, obviously, are you. I'm assuming you're working to like, kind of like attack time and balancing all your cycle times to your tact and mix model cell kind of thing or what do you got going on from a. Just a nuts and bolts perspective.

Yeah. So we essentially have three different models of boots that we make right now. We have a 6 inch tall soft toe, a 6 inch safety toe, and an 8 inch safety toe. And the way the line is set up, there's obviously some variations, but one can go in after the next, and there's very little impact. So it is set up for that mixed model line. And one of the good things, really good things, that came out of COVID when I was stuck in my basement, is I developed these little touchscreen pacemaker devices with the idea of, like, how do we reinforce tak time in these cells without spending tens of thousands of dollars for some software company that's already got a version of it? So each cell has a little touchscreen device that's powered by a raspberry PI that gives them a running clock. And then that target, where should they be? As you know, at 11 o', clock, they should have 43 pairs of boots done, and they're at 44, so they're ahead one. So it gives them that real time status of how are they doing for the day, how long have they been spending on that pair? And then, you know, those numbers automatically refresh as each tack time cycle passes.

Well, are you guys kind of working to, like, an operational tactile, like, 85% of a real tack or something like that from your cycle time, or how do you guys do that? You know what I mean? Like, if Tak time was 60 seconds, you know, we got to do a 66 seconds, so aim for 55 or something like that. Give yourself a little wiggle room. Do you do something like that?

Yeah. So we try to build in about 15% less than Tak time for each cell. Cycle time. Yep. And one of the things that I struggle with, you know, we don't have a conveyor line that's actually really restrictive. So each piece is. It goes down a shoe or it's actually passed over by hand. So the Taktom idea is more of a status update than, like, a hard restriction.

Okay.

So these pacemakers feedback to a central website that can show me from anywhere in the world how our line is doing, which indicates to me and our team leaders, hey, this cell is having problems. Go figure out what's going on. So it's not quite, you know, the Toyota and on system with bells and lights, but it's along those you're trying to follow the same philosophy.

What would your strategy be if all of a sudden you got called up by, I don't know, some huge, massive organization, and they wanted you guys to, like, triple your Your volume, like in three months, what would you do? Was it just. Would you just add people and machines or what? What would your strategy be there?

I don't know. I don't have an answer. We haven't been able to do that. We've been growing. Footwear Specific has been growing about 70% year over year.

Gosh.

Our restriction is being able to train people in an effective way and also hiring as well. Just being able to get the people in the door. But footwear is very detail oriented. So there are machines to help you. Especially the lasting machines are these big sort of medieval looking devices with all these pinchers and grabbers and pulling and you know, you're pulling a leather but you still rely on a person to look at it and say, that's not straight. I need to operate this pincer. So it's this mixture of machinery with a very critical eye on the part of the operator and that's. We haven't figured out a great way to train that quickly or to make the process very easy so that we can train people quicker. Now we've made a lot of progress, but as far as tripling in three months, I'd say I don't think we can do that. I would love to be able to do that because that is our, our restriction for the company right now is our ability to increase output in relation to what our demand is.

That's a ideal job for a lean guy though, you know, I mean, just keep going faster and you can sell it. Right.

So it's never boring. Yeah, yeah.

What are you guys doing as far as like doing any sort of like job instruction like TWI style training or how do you train people up?

I would love to do a better job with TWI style training. I am definitely not an expert in that. You know, obviously I've been exposed to it and so I try to explain to my team leads or the people who are doing the training the idea of twi. It's probably not the most effective way. Yeah, I know we can do better.

I'm gonna get you set up and Gimba Academy and we'll get you rocking and rolling, man.

We'll get you doing it.

I mean, I think that might be a really great way to, you know, you know, think about scaling and onboarding faster. Right. Find that one best way and teach to it, you know, so.

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's difficult for me knowing what a great process and environment looks like and the work required to get to that point. It's. We're Working towards it, but it's just not fast enough. You know, we have standard work developed. We're not implementing it quite effectively yet. We're. We're working towards it, we're just not there yet. So we're. I am. I'm probably too critical. You know, we're doubling in size every year and we're doing it successfully.

Yeah. Seriously. Yeah.

But I know we can do better.

Yeah.

So it's easy for me to see, you know, what we could do better, but prioritizing resources and, you know, the business decisions, it is very difficult.

Yep, yep. No, exactly. So I'm wondering just maybe as we wrap things up, if someone's listening to this and, you know, you've obviously been around the block and a few times, Andy, as far as Lean goes, and you've been at the. Arguably the best company in the whole world practicing it, somebody's getting going with it or, or perhaps they've started, but they're just kind of, you know, grinding their teeth a little bit. What advice do you have for those people who are sort of early on in the journey, or maybe they've been in it, but they just, they're struggling. Like, what's. What's your advice?

I am a big proponent of learning as much as you can before you really execute anything. And this is really a Toyota thing, too, is plan for 80%, execute 20%, which is typically reversed in most American companies. So to me, the planning part is get as much material in your head as you can. Read the Toyota way, the Bertha, like, dive in. There's great resources out there. Find some online training and think about what is the most effective tools and priorities for your specific case, because the tools are endless. But each manufacturing facility needs to approach it differently, so you got to arm yourself with the knowledge first. It's very tempting to just jump in and do something.

Yeah.

But it's hard to say, start with one thing or another, because it is so case basis.

Yeah. It's even like when people say, you know, you'll get the classic answer of like, what's a misconception about Lean or whatever. Well, it's all about the tools, you know, it's not about all about the tools. And I'm like, yeah, I get it. You have respect for people, obviously, is a massive part. It's one pillar. But you got to know some tools too, man. You know, like, if you don't know, like, anything as far as how to do something, you can respect people all day long. And we're just going to all Be respectful and not accomplish much. So it's like that. Again, it's like that balance, that tension, right, Between. Between knowing what to do and. And how to treat one another, that sort of thing. You got to be able to do them both, so.

And then tours are great if you can get into facilities that do it. Well, I. I do think a lot of people just have never actually seen what a great factory looks like.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's.

What are some great factories that you've been in. I mean, aside from Toyota, obviously. And yours. I can't use yours.

Yeah. I have work to do.

Okay.

There's the one that I have in mind. There's a company down in Lewiston, Maine, that's about an hour away from us, and they've been a great help. The guy that runs that has been doing footwear for 40 years. And so he's helped us develop our product, our systems or machinery. And so I've spent probably five or six trips going down to see his facility. And it is. You know, there's no conveyor lines, so it doesn't. It's not a car plant, but it is one of the best facilities I've ever been in.

Are you allowed to say the name?

The company's called Globe Footwear. Okay. They're owned by msa, the safety company. Okay. They make firefighter boots, some stuff for the military, and it's. It's just a great environment. And he. Rolling. The guy that runs the place, he might be a great podcast guest.

I was gonna say, man, hook me up, man. Come on.

He'd probably do it. So, you know. Yeah, it's a great facility. It's clean. You can tell product flows through it very well. Because they're bigger, you know, they're. It's a little more batch oriented than we are. And they are making, you know, their order is a batch, whereas ours is one of these. More like a pitch.

Their order is more like a pitch. Right. Pitch. A12 or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. And they have a very experienced workforce that they do a good job of, what we call cover and move. If one process is running behind.

Yeah.

They don't call a team leader to come and help. They really actually don't even have team leaders. They've got 50 production workers that, you know, have sort of organized themselves in ways where they just help each other out in a way that works. And I really struggled to wrap my mind around that, but I'm starting to see a little bit of it actually happen in my facility. So I. I haven't delved into that, into a way that makes sense to me as a lean guy intact. And, you know, if something's out of standard, you call a team leader. So it's one of those things that I struggle with a little bit, but it works, and it works very well.

Interesting. Yeah, man, introduce me. I'd love to have him on the show and, you know, hear their story. So. Yeah, awesome, man. Well, hey, if folks want to connect with you, Andy, and learn more about what you guys got going on, what's the best way?

Probably Instagram account is origin. Underscore.

Andy, how do you spell origin?

O, R, I, G, I, N. Okay, so that's. I don't post a whole lot, but occasionally I'll post videos of what's going on in the factory. And obviously, I focus a little more on lean things and then, of course, on LinkedIn.

Okay, Andy. And it's R, E, I, T, H. Correct. Is that how you spell that last name? All right, we're gonna just scroll down on your app there, folks, whatever you're listening on, and we'll have everything linked up there in the show notes. So. But, hey, man, I appreciate back on. I know you asked me earlier. It's like, hey, why? What do you want me. Why you want me back on? I'm like, I just like talking to people again, you know, it's been a while.

A lot has changed since then.

Yeah, we've had a few. Few things happen in the world since we last chatted, my man. I hope that things are calmer now between the next time we have you back on, but. And I know you said the highlight of your, you know, career or whatever is like, you know, Choco's podcast, but come on, dude, you've been on a Gemba Academy podcast twice now, so, like, Taco, come on.

That's true.

Right? No worries. Hey, I appreciate you coming on. It's been fun and keep up the great work. And, man, if I'm ever up in the neck of the woods, I want to swing by and see, see what you guys got going on.

Yeah, let me know. I love to give tours.

Awesome. All right, take care, Andy. Thanks.

Thank you.

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