GA 478 | Discovering Your Purpose with John Knotts

See, a lot of people think that they don't have any control when you actually recognize that you're the one in charge of your decisions. And this has a lot to do with two psychological terms, self efficacy and locus of control.

Today, I'm excited to welcome John Knotts back to the show. Now, John works here at Gemba Academy as one of our senior coaches. He's coaching up our green belts and black belts, master black belt. And he's just instrumental, does lots of things for our program and super, super, super smart and great guy. And so I asked him to come back onto the podcast just because every time John and I talk, we kind of have a little bit of an idea going into it, what we're going to talk about. And then as, as is always the case today, we went in a kind of almost not a completely different direction, but definitely explored things I hadn't planned on exploring. You see, John, he gets a lot of things done, man. He talks a little bit about this earlier on in the episode, but he's, he's really, he's a super disciplined guy. We'll talk about that later on as well. But, but he does things like he posts on LinkedIn daily. And I don't mean just like a little post like he puts like these insightful posts on LinkedIn every day and he never misses. He's actually just recently written a book in like 22 days or something crazy like that called Crossing the Zone of Fear. And so we spent the first five minutes or so kind of just talking about the actual book and about how he wrote it so fast and, and all the rest of it. But then this whole thing of fear was really, really interesting to me. And so we just really dove into it and talked about what is fear and how does that play a role for us as continuous improvement practitioners and folks in business and even in our lives. And so John shared a lot of really interesting insight on what it is, how to name it and what to do about it to kind of overcome it. So I think you're going to find this, this episode really, really valuable. I know I was super interested all the way through. So show notes can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 4. 78. Also, you know, John is instrumental in our, in our certification program. So if you are ever in the need of getting a yellow belt or green belt or black belt, master black belt. And also on the lean side, we have a really popular lean practitioner cert. And so John and Steve Kane and even myself from Time to time, we, we would love to work with you. So just go to gembacademy.com you'll poke around there and you can learn about all those programs. Okay, enough for me. Let's get to the show. John, welcome back to the show. How are you?

I'm doing great. It's a great Friday.

Yeah, it is, it is. Well, we're recording it on Friday. People are like, it's Thursday.

That's probably true. Right?

Well, they're listening on a Thursday because they listen right when it comes out. You know, man, I appreciate you carving out the time. I know you're a very, very busy guy. So it's great. So anyhow, you've been on the show before, John. We're going to link to your previous episodes there in the show notes. Folks can scroll down and look at that. But you know, we, we like to get started with a quote. So what do you got?

So I, I, I thought we would, you know, we were going to kind of talk about continuous improvement and some things that on so here's a quote from Jim Collins and good to great. Each turn of the flywheel builds upon work done earlier, compounding your investment of effort a thousand times faster than 10,000, than 100,000. If that doesn't speak to continuous improvement, I don't know what does.

Yeah, man, for sure. Well, we're going to come back to that flywheel because I know it's a big part of what you want to talk about today. So. But before we get into all that good stuff, John, tell us a little bit about Folks don't know who you are. Who, who are, who is John and what are you up to these days?

So. Well, I'm retired Air force. Was in 21 years. I got involved halfway through my career in manpower and quality. I've been working in this field of process improvement since 1998. Worked with major consulting firm, worked with Fortune 100 company USAA here in San Antonio. Them re engineer a lot of big projects that they're working on Enterprise wide. Went to go work for myself. Did some fractional chief operating officer and some full time chief operating officer work. Got hit kind of by the pandemic like everybody else and came to work with Gemba and I am a senior coach with Gemba doing covering their lean Six Sigma training and certification programs. Love it.

Yeah, and doing a great job too. Thank you for all your efforts. So. Well, in all your spare time, John, you somehow find a way to post on LinkedIn every day. Every day. And I mean every Day. Friday? No. Every day?

Yes.

Yeah. And, well, and you just Write books in 22 days, things like that. So what the heck, man? So, I mean, there's so many things we could talk about and obviously our audience is, you know, they are continuous improvement practitioners, lean thinkers and so forth. So, so you, you, you have. I, I kind of spoiled it.

You've.

You have written a book already and is 22 days, is that right? Is that.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Now, how many pages?

It's going to be about 135 pages.

Okay.

Really, really. What matters in a book is the word counter. So the word count is more important than the number of pages because you can, yeah, you can work with a book and add a bunch of blank pages and make big font and all that kind of stuff, but it, it is close to about 50,000 words.

Okay.

So it's, it's pushing right at that envelope.

Yeah.

And that was my goal to get between 30 and 50. So. And that's. This is my sixth book and I'm expecting today the proof from Amazon. I self publish all of my work. And my first business book. My first book was a, was a fiction book. I was testing out the. It was back when CreateSpace was the, the self publishing platform in Amazon and I was learning how to use it. Then when I went to go publish, finally publish my first business book, they had transitioned to KDP online, so it was a little bit different then. But my first book, my business book took 10 years to write and publish. My second book took four months to write and I published it as a PDF for free during COVID I wanted to give businesses tools to just help them out. Then my third book I wrote in 43 days, that was, It's Now Over. It was 70,000 words when I finished it in 43 days, but now it's over 80,000. Because a lot of adjustments during editing. Editing took a little bit of time, but I also got involved in another writing project in the middle of it with an organization that I work with, a nonprofit called Executive Book Review. So obviously the whole thing about books, Right. Well, we decided we were going to write a book. A bunch of us got together. There was seven authors, and it's called Lessons in Lifelong Learning. And all of the proceeds to that book go to charity, which is pretty cool. And we. That one took a lot of my time, so I wasn't as focused and trying to. Well, I wanted to get it done, but I just, you know, you get pulled in different ways. But then I finally published Becoming unbelievably successful. The book I wrote in 43 days in. On January 4th of this year. And I. As I wrote the book, a lot of things that really prevent us from success are fear. Fear is just. It's always there. Everybody has it there. They say that some people might be fearless, but I think that they. They just have fear and they deal with it better than others because they figured out how to. But I keep coming back to that concept of fear and fear. And then the president of Executive Book Review said, I really would like to have you write or do a presentation, like a special presentation on fear, because he thinks it's pretty important, which I do, too. And finally we decided we're going to do this in July of this year, and we got ready to do it. And I'm looking for books to maybe align to this. And, you know, there isn't very much out there on fear. And 20 is now 24 days ago, I said I'm going to write my own book on this because I have kind of a different view on fear than most of the things that you see out there and how to overcome it and what it really. What's really happening. So I came up with the title Crossing the Zone of Fear and decided to write the book, got the COVID made, wrote the book, and I've sent it to Amazon for proof two days ago, so. Took me 22 days to do that.

Well, I. I guess we weren't really planning to do this, but I. Hey, you never know what happens when you and I talk. So. But I want to dig into this whole fear thing. So, I mean, obviously I can't wait to read the book, but. Because I think you're right. I mean, fear is a man. Well, as they say, you know, fear is a liar in some ways. So, like, it's like, what's your take on fear from a business context?

So. Well, and the book specifically focuses on professional fear. Yeah. So typ. Fear. Fears fall into phobias. Okay. So arachnophobia or acrophobia. Glossophobia. That is a. Glossophobia is an odd one, though. See, acrophobia or trying to think of some other ones that they're out there. These phobias are of things that are real in the world. Like I'm. I might be afraid of spiders. I'm not, but I might. Might be afraid of scorpions. I might be afraid of insects altogether. Insects exist, and then insects can bite you and sting you. Not all of them, but. So it's, you know, it's kind of a logical fear to be afraid of something like that. But then we have a lot of professional fears, and these fears are the things that are holding us back from success. And I'm sure you've probably worked with people in your career who refused to step up for a promotion because they knew that they were going to have to speak in front of people or they. They felt that in the current job they're in, they're really not that qualified and they don't want anybody to see that. They really don't know what they're. At least they don't feel that they know what they're doing. Those are two fears. Glossophobia, the fear of public speaking, which is the only professional phobia out there, and then the imposter syndrome. And these things make up several things that are going on in fear. But the unique thing that kind of my approach to this concept of fear. You may have seen the concentric circles Venn diagram where you see a circle that is the zone of comfort, or the comfort zone. And then you have another circle around that. That's the fear zone. And then you have another circle that it's learning and then growth. And that's it. It's been kind of established. It was never really created, but there was somebody who wrote about the concept and this graph, this graphic, just kind of appeared. The problem is, is that each one of those circles are about the, you know, the same distance from each other. And I don't think that's real at all. See, we live in our comfort zone. And the fear zone just outside of our comfort zone is a barrier. It's the terror barrier. And that's the point where you have to decide to step from your comfort zone into the zone of fear. And that zone of fear is big. And the bigger it is, the more you're letting the capital F E A R, which is false evidence appearing real to affect you. Then you get into learning. And of course, we're a learning organization in Gemba. And learning actually is very small because you get into learning, you learn something, and then sometimes you just leave. And we know that a lot of times we learn something, we don't apply it. So what happens? Nothing. That's a good idea. I read a book, I took a course, but I really didn't do anything with it, so it didn't change my life at all. When you actually apply, which is a very small piece of that learning journey, that's when you enter the zone of growth. And when you enter the zone of growth. Your zone of comfort increases because the moment you're done growing, you snap back into the comfort zone. And we're constantly. That's where we live. We exist every day in the comfort zone. We wake up, we go to work, we come home, we eat dinner, we go to bed. It's all being done in our comfort zone.

Yeah.

And you know the.

The biology, right?

Absolutely. Yeah. It's a safety. It's our safety net. The problem is, is that when you step into the fear zone or even run into that barrier and it pushes you back because you can't deal with it, then your zone of comfort shrinks. And every time that happens, it shrinks more and more. And then we have people that are terrified to even get out of their house, leave their house, or get out of their bed. And this is real. I mean, like a percentage of the population, however small, is terrified to walk out their door. Yeah. And that's. So that provides more of a realistic view into the understanding of what fear really is doing.

So what do you do? What are some countermeasures? So let's say. I mean, is. Is this as straightforward as, oh, I'm scared to death to think about speaking in front of people, so do I need to get three friends and speak to them and then add four, or what do you think?

So, and that's. This is where the. I mean, first thing we recognize is that. Understand what fear is. Understand that everybody in the world deals with fear. So I've been in Toastmasters for 23 years, and I have seen hundreds of people that are terrified to speak in public. I was scared to speak in public when I was a kid. I get it. I know the feeling. But it's overcomeable. And how do you get there? And sometimes it's just about facing that fear. The number one thing that I tell people is that you have to name it. Here's the trick to fear. I say, I'm afraid of speaking in public. No, I'm not, because I speak in public all the time. Somebody calls my name, I say, hey, what's up? I'm not scared to do that. What am I really afraid of? I'm afraid of being rejected, of being ridiculed, of looking stupid. And when you can name those things and understand what is it that you really are afraid of, then everything changes because it's no longer I'm afraid of public speaking. I'm afraid of looking bad. So what do I have to do to be confident standing in front of people, presenting? Well, I need to know My material, I need to be confident speaking in front of people so I don't stumble all over my words and say, and ah, every second. Yep. And then you start to realize, well, what can I do to alleviate those things? What did I do before I even knew about Toastmasters? I went to Tarrant County Junior College in Fort Worth while it was stationed up in Carswell. And I went and took two speech classes at the same time. One Business Communication and one Interpersonal communication. And I faced that fear head on. And after that it was not that it doesn't exist. And this is the concept of fear of public speaking. We get this feeling of butterflies in our stomach and we, you know, kind of upset and a little scared of what's going to happen. I just say teach them how to fly in formation because you can turn that into excitement because that's all it is, is just energy. Yeah, but that's just, I mean, one small piece of how do you overcome this?

Yeah, yeah. One of the things that I see in the, with folks that, you know, in the business context, you know, we all coach and talk to a lot of different people, all kinds of companies and organizations around the world of the things that I, that I sense in particular with more on the leadership side of, of the spectrum. So these folks are, you know, leading people or whatever it might be. I see this not with everybody, but with some people a really huge fear of the unknown or just any sort of uncertainty. Like, you know, obviously during the pandemic for some people were, you know, rightly. I'm not trying to minimize anything, but some people were more impacted than others. Right. Some people were just like, let's control what I can control, which is right now, I can do this, this, this. And there's some people to your point, were just the, the uncertainty of the whole thing just paralyzed them. So. But that's an extreme case. I'm just, just an everyday, hey, let's go implement lean. And they're like, oh boy, I don't know what might happen, you know, six months from now, like, what's your thoughts on helping those types of people who, who really strive to have certainty in all phases of their life before they can move forward. So.

Well, it's actually a term called vuca. Yeah. So volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous world that we live in. And it's, you know, like Covid just was like the clarion call for businesses and now it's just one crisis after another. We' facing everything with inflation and recession and AI now it's like everything is just kind of freaking everybody out. But I think the key that you said is what can I control? How can I respond? See, a lot of people think that they don't have any control when you actually recognize that you're the one in charge of your decisions. And this has a lot to do with two psychological terms, Self efficacy and locus of control. Self efficacy is a belief that I am capable of actually achieving the things that I set out to do. When I said publicly on LinkedIn that I was going to write a book and I was going to publish it by the end of June, now that would have given me two months. People were like, you're crazy, you'll never do that. But I believed in myself. I actually have a, I have a tagline that I use every day on my posts. It's hashtag plan to fail. So most of us, we avoid failure because we're scared of it. I'm like, no, I'm going to face it right on. I set super high goals that I just know I'm going to fail at. I'm like, there's no way that I can achieve publishing my book in two months, but I'm going to do it. That's a belief, that's a serious internal or high self efficacy that I have. The second half of that is locus of control. Locus is where your, your control is located. There's a lot of people, you've heard them, you hear them all the time that will blame everything around them for what's going on. You just listen to them and you can point them out. That's an in, that's an external locus of control. When they just like hand over all of my control to everybody else and say, you know, it's not my fault. Which we see that in the process world all the time because people are pointing fingers. But when you have a significant internal locus of control, then you believe that you are in full control of everything that ever happens to you. I said this in my book becoming unbelievably successful that I now recognize that every single thing that happened to me, good or bad in my life, was a result of myself. I either put myself in that position or I responded a certain way. And you know, as a kid I, when I was high school to college, I was kind of a screw off and I paid the price of it, but I was the screw off. I didn't do the things that I should have done. And I recognize that now. I look back on it, I'm like, oh, that was me. But it, when you can't accept that you're. And there's a lot of people that be like, oh, well, you know, you can't. You can't control everything. Yes. You can control everything that exists in here. Yeah. Inside your body, inside your mind. And if a business leader feels that they're out of control, they're probably not in control of themselves. They're not confident in their own abilities, and maybe they're even struggling with some imposter syndrome. But break out a piece of paper, start writing down, what are you really, really scared of? Name those things, and then say, okay, how can I overcome that?

Yeah, well, and what's beautiful about, you know, we're all super passionate about scientific thinking around here, and, you know, just that whole idea of, like, hey, what's that next step? You know? And what do you think's gonna happen?

Oh, okay.

Well, hey, then what actually happened? What'd you. You know, just standard huddle. A small iteration. Right. Turning a wheel, which maybe that can lead us into another topic that I want to explore here. But. But, yeah, I think that's. It's all related. That's what's beautiful about what we do is, you know, whether it's a process or a person, it's all connected, right? People in processes, they go together, and you can't have really one without the other. Even if it's a bunch of robots, there's still some people behind making the robots go, you know.

Right.

So speaking of wheels, you mentioned flywheel earlier on Jim Collins and so forth. And I know it was a big part of your success here in just writing this most recent book. So it's not about, oh, John's so amazing. He wrote a book so fast. Look how great he is. But really genuinely, as it applies to continuous improvement, what can we learn from that whole flywheel concept? Like, yeah, it helped you write a book.

Great.

Maybe some people don't care about writing a book, but what can they do to. To apply that same principle to other areas in their life that they might care about?

So in this is. This is why I believe it's a continuous improvement. It's a just basis in continuous improvement. The flywheel. The concept of the flywheel that Collins talked about in the book was that, you know, it takes a lot to get the engine moving, but there's that big wheel on the other end that when it starts turning, it keeps turning with that force and the energy and. Which helps the smaller part of the engine work faster. But really, what's happening there, the first iteration, we're learning, we're trying things, but too often we just do it without writing it down, without establishing what are we going to measure, how are we going to determine whether we're good or bad at this? But if you take the time, and that's what I did, is I broke down the process of writing. I do this with a lot of things that I do and a lot, you know, posting on LinkedIn every day, I have a very specific process and it's not just LinkedIn but I share, share the posts on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and TikTok even. So it's like, but how do I do that? And people are looking, oh my God, like you're a machine. And I'm like, no, I have a flywheel. And I've taught that flywheel how to do things in a repeatable fashion. And it's really interesting because I had a very specific approach to LinkedIn and then I decided to actually purchase Grammarly. I wanted to up my game in writing because I'd make too many mistakes. You know, I actually write every post on my phone every morning. People are amazed when they feel like, no way.

I've heard you say that before, but.

Yeah, but I don't, I don't preload these. I don't create them ahead of time. I go through and I read stuff. I might have some ideas in the hopper that I'll bring in. Like, you know, today my blog with Gemba posted and I knew it was going to go out at 5 o' clock in the morning on, on cue it did. There's the flywheel working and I use that as my, my material. So I'm, you know, I'm kind of prepared. But of course I gotta wait till it goes out to do the post. But when I bought, when I bought Grammarly and I installed it on the phone, it worked differently than my text editor. And there's certain things that had, I had developed that made things fast and suddenly. And this is what happens in Process Improvement. The process practitioner comes in and says, we're going to change the way that you do something and it's going to be better. Less errors, better speed, whatever it is. But it works differently. And I got to tell you, I hit the change wall. And I'm like, this is not, I'm not used to this. So I had, and I had to make a decision. Why did I buy it in the first place? I wanted to get away from errors because I don't want to go back and edit work. I feel bad when I'm doing that want to write the first time. So I worked with it and I got it into my routine. I worked on my flywheel again because it's suddenly the, you know that that big wheel was slowing down. But I have to keep going. And that's what you just have to break every step down and understand what does it take to do this, what does it take to do that? Is it really worth it? You know, it's interesting. We had. We had somebody close out their certification this week and they were talking about a process that they had been doing for a long time and they actually had not focused on this process because they thought it was going to go away. Now the process has come back. So for a certification project decided they're going to take a look at it. And they found out that they were wasting. With one step like out of a 300 gallon batch of this product, they were wasting 50 gallons every time. And the process step that they were actually wasting it at, they didn't even need to do it was that quick. Yeah. And they. Because they never even bothered to look at it because it's not all that important. So you have to make a decision on what's important in your life. And if you own a business, you're a business leader, you got to make the decisions on what's important and then say all right, we're going to document the process and then we're going to find the areas where we can continuously improve them and make it faster and faster and better and better, cheaper and error free. Whatever we have to do. Yeah.

So what do you think about like you. You know, I've known you for a little while, John and I. My perception of you is that. And I could be wrong, I don't know. So I'm going to throw this out there. Is that you're a pretty disciplined guy.

It's probably. Well, I wasn't when I went into the military. I wasn't at all. I mean it.

I failed modern day John and military.

Had a lot to do with that. You learn discipline in the military. And I went. I went into the military. I wasn't disciplined. I ran into a lot of brick walls trying to be the undisciplined John and realized that that's just stupid. But I started. It was actually I was a cop in the air force in 1990 and the air Force was rolling out total quality management and they started teaching these programs and I was at Carswell and Carswell was in the closure phase. So they had a lot of Extra time on their hands and they, so they started sending people to these quality Air Force program classes. As a cop, I was going to all these classes. I'm like, I love this stuff. And most of it had to do because TQM is very involved about teams and quality circles and, you know, engaging. It's very change focused and engagement focused approach to process improvement. It really wasn't very structured in tools, although there were a set of tools that we had and the seven step continuous improvement process. But I love that stuff. And the more that I've realized, you know, the value of all of the, you know, the methodologies and the tools and all of them are good and all of them have their purposes, but it, it just, it makes everything easier over and over again. And when you have that process mindset, most of the people that go through our program, they discover things about their organization. They're like, man, we never look at data. We don't do this. We like, this is an eye opener for them. And that's the eye opener that I had. That changed me.

Yeah, yeah. The reason that I asked you about discipline, the role of discipline is, you know, I look at, you know, like some of my children or whatever, just young people in general. Like when we were all young, we were no different. You know, it's just, you know, for whatever reason, those young adolescent years in college, maybe it's prefrontal cortex isn't developed, I don't know. But, you know, you lack discipline, right? And, and maybe you have a little bit of more narcissism in you than you should, you know, but maybe life just, maybe you just got to mature out of that, perhaps. I don't know. And, but you know, you still see undisciplined people, adults, right. And they're often the ones that you were talking about earlier who blame others and, you know, because they don't want to take any accountability for themselves.

I think a big piece of this, and this is what I really wrote about in becoming unbelievably successful, is that when you don't have a direction, when you don't really have a purpose, like 80% of the population in the world does not know what their purpose is, and they don't have a clue how to find it when you know what your purpose is. I knew a kid in high school, I'll mention his name, but he was very dedicated, straight A student. He knew what he was doing. He had a plan. I write about a friend of mine that I'm still friends with today, who's an oral surgeon now. And he's so good at it that he teaches in schools and he's asked to speak at conferences. And he knew what he was doing. He knew his dad was a dentist and he was going to go into dental. I didn't know what I was going to do. So it was just kind of like floating through life and when those people, when you don't really know what you're going to do, you just kind of stumble into whatever it is. When I decided, you know, like I, I failed out of college. My first attempt, two semesters in a row. Complete goose egg f people. Like what? Like, it's amazing, like all this college back that you have now. And I'm like, I learned to love school later. And then I went and I had seven dead end jobs I do really well, but I didn't have an education. And there was always somebody above me that would be like, I'm going to put you in your place. And then I'd find my place somewhere else. And it wasn't really until the military that I actually kind of started to figure it out. But I wasn't being a cop. My dad was a cop and I didn't want it. When I went in the military, I was like, I don't want to be my dad. I don't want to be a cop. Not that I didn't like him or anything like that, but it just like that's not what. I didn't want to follow in his footsteps, but I also didn't want to sit behind a desk. And the other option that I had was combat camera because I love photography, but I could, I would have had to wait two years to actually get into combat camera. And I could get him right away with, with being a cop.

So I took it okay.

But there I, I started to understand discipline and understand, you know, purpose. And you, when you're in the military, you, if you're going to stick around, you really do learn purpose because you're there for something much bigger than yourself.

Yeah. Love it. Wow. So maybe to wrap things up, John, maybe leave folks with, maybe just some parting advice with all these things that we've been talking about as it relates to Flywheel and, you know, discipline and purpose and like, what are some parting thoughts that you can leave with, folks?

So when you decide that you're going to do something, you got to write down what that thing is. So when I decided that I wanted to be a published author, that didn't just mean I wanted to write one book that meant that I needed to learn how to write. So I started writing newsletters for volunteer organizations, started writing for small magazines. I even created at one time here in San Antonio, Texas, a magazine called Essay Extreme magazine and ran it for two years. You have to like, think about what are all the things that I can do. Not just the thing, the ultimate thing, but as you get closer to whatever it is, that thing is going to get bigger. Because I realized pretty quickly when I was writing my first business book that this would not be the only business book that I needed to write many business books. And it's gotten to the point where now my goal is to publish two books a year or more. And now with the capabilities that we have today, I use Dragon Speak, the Microsoft Word read aloud, even artificial intelligence to help with the research. Things go so much faster. So that flywheel is also improved by technology. So you gotta find the right tools to augment your process. You, they're not, don't buy them ahead, you know, before you've actually built that process because now you have, you know, it's like trying to buy like a semi when you only need a, you know, pinto. Yeah, it's way too much. You don't need that. But those are the things that'll get you there and just focus on that one thing and, and make it work.

Yeah. Love it. Well, folks want to connect with you, John. Obviously LinkedIn all over there. You're everywhere. Right?

So I am, I am on social media everywhere. I'm most, most active on LinkedIn. A lot of connections through there. It is spent two weeks ago, I just spent my time in New Jersey meeting some of these connections face to face that I've gotten to know over the pandemic years. But I do have a website that I share all of my publications on that's cross s c t r.com Cross cutter is the what it stands for. But you can go out there and except for the books that are on Amazon which are linked, I mean I have over 35, I think articles on Forbes, a lot of, a lot of small pieces with Forbes, over a hundred where I was featured, other magazines and other things that are there just free. Even this podcast will be linked to there. So it's just information that I like to just keep sharing out to the world and helping people out.

Yep, love it. Very good. Yeah. And so just everybody, you can just scroll down on your app, whatever you're listening to this on and, and you'll find all the links there. And if you're listening in the car. Just go to GembaPodcast.com when you get to the office, look for episode 478 and we'll have it all linked up in there as well. So John, thank you man.

It's Friday, you know, or Thursday if you're listening.

Thursday if you're listening. Right, where we're recording on a Friday.

Yeah.

But thanks for all you do man. And thanks for coming on. This has been a lot of fun.

Awesome. We'll talk to you soon.

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