GA 491 | What Leads to High Morale with Kerrie Jordan

80% of respondents said that their company is prioritizing training for new technologies, which I was shocked by how high that was. That definitely tells me that if you're a company that's not upskilling training your employees, then you could potentially be left behind.

Today I'm excited to welcome Carrie Jordan to the show. Now, Kerry works for a company called Epicor. And today on the show we dive into a report that Epicor had put together and they surveyed a bunch of folks in the manufacturing world, so many of them sort of frontline workers. So not just the executive folks, but just the folks who are, who are doing the work. And they compiled it all into what they call the voice of the manufacturing worker report. And so what we really do on the show is sort of dive into that report and some of the things that they learn as far as, you know, are people happy? How's their morale? What do they like? What do they not like? And what should we be doing more of less of that sort of thing. So it's a, it's a really interesting conversation and I would even say if you aren't in manufacturing, it still applies because people are people and the things that motivate a factory worker aren't so different that motivate, you know, someone that works in an office or something like that. So really good stuff. I think you're going to get a lot of value out of this episode. So show notes can be found over@gembapodcast.com just look for episode 491. Also, there's some really cool links that we're, that Carrie's going to sort of mention, including access to this, this actual report. And so just scroll down on your app and whatever you're listening to on and you'll see the, the links to everything down there. Also, thank you to folks that have given us a five star review and left a little comment. I really do appreciate that. So if you don't mind doing that, when you're scrolling down on your app, whatever you're listening on, hit five stars, leave a little note. I do read every one of them and I do deeply, deeply appreciate that. Okay, well enough for me. Let's get to the show. Carrie, welcome to the show. How are you?

Hi, Ron. Thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here. I'm doing well.

Yeah, we, I feel like this is, we've had to persevere to make this one happen. I think I had to reschedule a couple times. Maybe you did, I don't remember. But yes, I appreciate, you know, your perseverance, and we stuck to it, and here we are, you know.

Yes, absolutely. I was looking forward to it. Glad we can make it happen.

Yeah, yeah. Where are you calling in from?

I'm in Richmond, Virginia.

Okay, cool, cool. All right, well, so, Carrie, you know the drill right out of the gate. We like to start with our guest sharing a quote. So what do you have?

All right, so for me, I actually have two, and I feel like they might be more phrases rather than quotes. I tried to look up who they're attributed to, but I couldn't find, like, the right person. So I'll just. I'll just start with the first one. The first one is take messy action. Messy action. You know, I have to admit, I'm someone who is prone to procrastination, so I often find myself thinking of this phrase to take messy action, because even messy action is better than no action. And I also am somewhat prone to perfectionism. And if you're taking messy action, the idea is to just jump into it, you know, put aside any fears or any, you know, expectations or judgments that you might have and just get started. Getting started is better than not getting started. And it's okay to not be perfect. You're making progress and you're moving forward.

I love it. I love it. Do you have another one?

I do, I do. So the second one is again, like another. Another phrase, but it's know the edges. You know, again, I'm not really sure who to attribute this to, but I. Throughout my career, I've been, you know, an agent of change. I've been someone who's, you know, had to drive transformation, challenge the status, qu. You know, take on change management initiatives. And I'm sure many of your listeners could relate to it too. I encourage my teams to be an agent of change and, you know, be aware of the boundaries. You know, be aware of the boundaries and what your organization can withstand of your own competencies and knowledge. Once you know, once you understand the edges, you can better decipher or identify really what problem needs to get solved in order to achieve your desired outcome. So know the edges.

Very cool. I love that one. All right, well, hey, tell us about Carrie. Tell us about your. Your background, how you got into your line of work, and then maybe a little bit about epicor.

Yeah, sure, sure. So I've been in the software technology space for nearly 20 years. I actually started in product Life Cycle management, or plm. And I have to admit, you know, this is really a great place to start I feel like software can often be fairly intangible. You know, I joke when, when family or friends ask what I do and that's press buttons all day, hopefully they're in the right order. I talk a lot. But what's really rewarding is building something, you know and PLM Product Lifecycle management is a type of software that is just that it's really building things and if it's PLM for process, it's building the things that you know, oftentimes food, food and beverage, chemicals, you know, that, that are used every day. And so it much more apparent and visible and tangible type of software space. And you know, while I was in plm my role was around interviewing companies. I worked in the product marketing organization and that was interviewing companies that use the software and I wrote the case studies. So taking an otherwise intangible thing really came to life for me and the stories that they would tell me about, you know, some business leaders really built their entire careers on the process of invention or of innovation and I found that really compelling. So I then moved from plm, sort of expanded into supply chain management. Again a lot of very tangible business results that can happen because of of course moving within the supply chain and supply chain has been, you know, just so critical over the years and, and so challenging and a lot of opportunity in it as well. I eventually moved to the ERP space and then a variety of business applications, cloud technologies and now even AI Sol, you know, that are needed for the future of manufacturing and other companies and related industries. So now I lead product management teams at Epicor. It's a highly rewarding discipline, you know, because similar to what I did in the very beginning is we're always working with business leaders in the industry. We're always, you know, interviewing them, brainstorming with them to really understand what are the problems that they're trying to solve in their business. Why, what would solving those challenges mean for them and their business? You know, what value would it create and how can we, you know, our teams, myself, partner with them to really help solve those challenges, help them achieve those goals. So to kind of give you an example, Epicor, we're working with a global metal fabricator among many. Right. Just want to give you an example. And you know, this global metal fabricator is looking to become a more sustainable organization. You know, they're international, they need to comply with new carbon emission standards as well as really demonstrate for their customers and their shareholders that they're a forward looking business, that they're empathetic and you know, care about. About stakeholders, the community and their environment. So we're working with them to create a solution to track, report, and take action on their manufacturing process in order to reduce carbon emissions throughout. Throughout the entire process. Another example is, you know, for working with a premium automotive organization, they're looking to gather IoT information from sensors on the manufacturing floor and apply AI in order to predict changes to the manufacturing process, to predict maintenance that may be required, or maybe to recommend actions in order to speed up those operations or create efficiencies. So that's. That's, you know, kind of example, you know, an anecdote of who Epicor is, you know, working with manufacturers, distributors, retailers, building supply, automotive, aftermarket, and really helping them future proof their business. Right. Like figuring out what are the kind of challenges that they're trying to solve for the future of their organizations, really partnering with them in a broad way. And I think our category is technically erp, but it's much more. It's more like industry productivity solutions that, you know, further expands beyond.

Got it.

Erp.

Very cool. All right, well, so really the main thing that I was hoping to dive into today is, is a particular report that I know you're very familiar with. Voice of Manufacturing Worker report.

That's right.

So maybe just to sort of open up, like, what's that report all about, who created it, who was surveyed, and that sort of thing.

Yeah, sure, sure, you're right. So during September and December of 2022, we published this. In the beginning of 2023, we interviewed 600 professionals across manufacturing. And they're frontline workers. You know, they're on the shop floor, they are our supervisors, but. But primarily, you know, frontline. And we asked them a variety of questions because we really wanted to understand what are the challenges that they're seeing, wanted to really focus in on the worker. I think too often these kinds of surveys and reports are asking the C Suite, the executives, you know, the. The presidents, you know, what. What they're seeing in the industry. Obviously that is incredibly critical information and very important. But we wanted to get to the level where we're focusing on the workers and how whatever strategies or challenges that we're seeing at the C suite or at the executive level and presidents, how is that manifesting on the shop floor? How is that manifesting in the daily lives of the workforce? Because, you know, so often when we're talking about, you know, some of these really exciting advancements, I think too often we kind of look past the workers and how it's really affecting them. So we wanted to really understand the challenges, the opportunities and what drives them.

Okay, so I think we've all seen the, you know, the Gallup poll, and I, you know, there's some fluctuation year to year, but, but pretty much it's very consistent that a massive percentage of the workforce, and it's really global, from what I understand, not just in, in North America, these folks are actively disengaged. As they say, sometimes morale, you know, just. Just not great. Things aren't great, you know, in a lot of workplaces. So I'm curious if you saw something similar to that in your, in your report. And if so, like, do you have any ideas on how we can sort of make an improvement with that?

Yeah, yeah. You know, that, that's a great question, and it is something that we were thinking about as well. We, we did, we asked about morale in the organization, and of the 600 that we interviewed, as a matter of fact, 52% said morale was high. Which I actually thought that that was right. That was more.

That's higher than I, than I thought.

Yeah. So, so we asked, you know, what, what makes a high morale organization? One of the reasons that we saw was oftentimes they describe those that said that they had high morale at their organization. They often describe their companies as very modern. And so then we were asking, okay, well, what makes a company very modern? Some of it is the types of technologies that a company is investing in. And from a worker standpoint, that often means they're investing in them. They're investing in tools to make their daily lives faster, more efficient, safer. And some of the technologies that we saw in use were, or that were reported, I should say, by the survey respondents were big data. So leveraging data in ways to make better decisions about their operations. Robotics and artificial intelligence, again, I mentioned safer. You know, oftentimes you can use robotics or AI to accelerate or to speed otherwise, you know, potentially dangerous activities on the shop floor. Augmented reality was another one that was used, and that's really fascinating.

Training, maybe, or.

Yeah, training. Augmented reality can also be used in order to visualize the end result. If you think about the digital twin, those kinds of technologies where you have a digital version of the physical product, you can manipulate it, you can work with it, you can see it, project it, and how that might affect the manufacturing process. And then 3D printing was another popular technology, I should mention other things that made high morale and that was around a flexible work schedule. So for those workers that said that they had a more Flexible work schedule were able to better achieve a work life balance that was meaningful and important to them. They also attributed it to high morale. Other things that, that people said that they really enjoy about their job or they find very rewarding leading to high morale is building something. Building something with their hands, which I think we can all relate to. You know, how rewarding is that at the end of the day have something that you have created and achieved and really built something. And another piece of that is being a part of something bigger. So if it's an organization that is investing in advanced technologies, that empowers workers, that invests in them with tools and technologies and also skills, helps them feel like they're a part of something bigger. Especially if it's an organization that, you know, is, is clearly making inroads towards contributing to something bigger, like the community around them, you know, perhaps hiring people with disabilities or veterans, you know, like just ways in which, that they are reaching out bigger than themselves and making a larger and outsized impact that, that really contributed to morale.

Okay, so I want to circle back. Flexible workplace or however you phrase that. Like what does that mean?

Flexible work schedule.

Yeah, yeah, workshop. Like what does that mean? Like in a manufacturing environment kind of thing, you know, like the customer needs their product by Friday. Right. So they don't really care about your flexible work schedule. Right, exactly.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Part of. Okay, this also goes to. When you ask, we ask them what is the number one challenge that you are facing? And it was a high cost of raw materials. And I thought that was strange in that that seems like a C suite concern. It seems like a cfo, you know, your chief financial officer might be concerned about that. But that manifests itself when there is a high cost of raw materials in very real ways when it comes to the worker. And that could be potentially you're working with different materials, you're working with lower, lower cost, so perhaps lower quality materials. So you have to focus more on getting it right and potentially working harder with fewer resources, thereby increasing your schedule, reducing the flexibility in your schedule. Right. Because now you have a higher burden on each person and that makes it more difficult to get the product out by Friday. And you know, if you're not investing in, in the workers to be more efficient, to be more productive, to have the best materials that they know they can deliver on time, on budget, on quality standards, then yeah, it's, it's definitely going to be a challenge.

Yeah. I don't have any data to back the statement I'm about to make. But it's anecdotal feeling more than anything. I talk to a lot of people, right. You know, in my, in my work and, you know, obviously is a big, you know, after Covid, the work from home movement has really gained, you know, traction. And, you know, young, younger people coming into the workforce, if you don't allow them to work from home, they ain't working for you. Right. And I'm wondering, like, what sort of repercussions that's going to eventually have manufacturing. Because unfortunately, that person running that lathe, they got to be there, right, to run the lathe. You know, they don't have the ability to sit at home and make calls or program or whatever it might be. And some jobs do lend themselves to a remote workplace, but, you know, in a factory, they got to be there. The nurse in the hospital, she's got her. He's got to be there. You know what I mean? And so I'm wondering if there's going to be some friction down the road, as you know, because the people chiming for I want to work from home, they're very loud, right? I don't know what percentage they are, but they're loud. And so I don't know. What do you think about that?

Yeah, that's a good question. The, the future of work is definitely changing, definitely shifting. And there are roles that lend themselves to be able to academy.

I'm like, people work from home for a great amount of the time.

Yeah, yes, yes. And of course, others, as you said, you have to be there. And I think what we're going to see is, you know, couple, couple dynamics here. One is communication. How do you ensure, like, if you're an organization that has a hybrid workforce, those, some that are working from home, perhaps they're in the office or on the shop floor some days a week and then working, you know, from home other days of the week. If you, you know, you're going to need to manage that communication between the team. So investing in tools and technology to help do that is one way to allow communication and it should be meaningful communication. Of course, there are some tools that help with team building, you know, engagement, but then there are other tools that are, you know, within the shop floor, technologies that enable communication, you know, so you could be, for example, there could be maybe your skeleton shop floor workforce, your small shop floor workforce, working on the machines, but they have a question or they need to contact somebody in your finance organization that might be working from home, right? There's a PO that they need. There's a missing part that needs to get ordered. So to have focused communication tools that allow you to do that I think is a smart move and help to avoid distractions or the manual work of jumping out to email kind of things. Right. So just to be again, focusing in on the problem you're trying to solve and really have a focused solution, that, that really helps. But, but I do think it'll be a challenge, you know, for, for organizations there, there should be incentives, smart incentives for bringing people into the office, bringing people into the shop floor. That's really where we see that collaboration happen. And there should be. Yeah. Some outside perks or incentives that bring people to the office. We actually did see that in the survey results.

Well, and I also think that, you know, personality type does play a role in it. There's some people during the COVID days where they were loving being at home because they don't like people. My, my wife, you know, she just loves to be home and she's quite happy, whereas I'm kind of like, I am slowly dying inside. I gotta go see somebod, you know.

So total personality traits, like. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So I'm wondering though, if we think more about just a factory worker. Everybody's trying, maybe not just factory. So if you're listening and you're not in a factory, like, but just workplaces in general as well. Not just factories. But you know, what are some things that, or maybe some success stories that you have seen of companies that they're, they're hearing some of these issues and they're trying to overcome them. We've talked a little bit about technology already, but like, what are some things that, that we can be doing to make our workplaces better?

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What are some things that, that we can be doing to make our workplaces better?

Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. Well, one of the. Okay, so we talked about the flexible work schedule and how you create a flexible work schedule would take a number of different pathways. Right. It could be investing in new technologies to enable better communication. It could be having a variety of supply chain partners to get raw materials from. So. Right. So there's a couple of ways you could manage a flexible work schedule. Another one that people strongly requested, I can certainly relate to this. It's just more, more paid time off. Who doesn't want more paid time off? You know, but, but how you enable that within your organization does take investment and also is closely tied to that flexible work schedule. Another way to improve the workplace is, I feel like this is an easy one to do is to listen, to listen to staff. And perhaps the not so easy part is taking action based on what you hear. So it could be issues in the workplace that they want to see resolved. It could be just being able to demonstrate that you're hearing feedback, you're open to feedback and will address concerns. So management focusing on listening to staff was also highly rated as one of the ways in which to make a strong workplace. Another one was non monetary perks. So we talked about enticing people back into the office. Non monetary perks matter. Snacks in the break room. You know, these are things that you can do that, you know, starting small can really have a great impact on your team.

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. Upskilling, you know, is a word that we hear a lot in, in industry, really just. And not again, not just in factories, but just in general. I'm wondering if you, if you heard any feedback on that and if so, what are you seeing? Is it happening or are there things that we should be doing more of?

Yeah, you're right. Upskilling was a, a big focus of this report. As a matter of fact, 80% of respondents said that their company is prioritizing training for new technologies, which I was shocked by how high that was. That definitely tells me that if you're a company that's not upskilling training your employees, then you could potentially be left behind. And that is something that I'm sure over time with many organizations, many manufacturing organizations doing this, employees, the workforce will come to expect. And I think this is also very evident of many manufacturing companies preparing their workforce, preparing their company for the future. And upskilling is, and even reskilling takes investment, but it certainly has a great reward, a great payoff. Some of the most popular ways that we saw reported from the survey was on site training and on the job training. I think that that's, you know, pretty straightforward. It's a little bit easier from a managerial perspective, a balance perspective to Fold in training opportunities while the employee is on site and on the job. Shadowing. Right. Would be a great example of this. But it is important that you make the time and the investment and the employee is still being compens while on the job, while on site and getting this training. Others said that they had access to online training platforms. There's a variety of them out in the industry. There you go is a great example. Yeah, and others said tuition reimbursements and even a third reported that they were given paid time off to take training courses.

Yeah, I feel like, you know, just growth, you know, people want to improve, you know, or it, it's also I think boring if you're not learning. You know what I mean? And so, you know, having that, that excitement of the first day of school. Many kids, not all, but many kids are and even if they don't admit it, a little excited, you know, to go back and you know, see, I'm sure a lot of it see their friends and all that. But, but you know, I think inherently human beings want to improve. They want to grow and they want to learn. And yeah, if they don't have that environment, that can be very demotivating, I would say.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, definitely. And you know, a big area that we're seeing focus now and I'd love to you know, get, get your opinion too on what you're seeing, but AI a focus in learning, AI and automation. And it's pretty interesting, you know, thinking about the history of AI in manufacturing and where it's going into the future. For example, MRP Materials Requirements Planning. This is a process that using compute and algorithms, we've predicted the timing, we've predicted quantity of materials and resources and really has been a form of AI in use for a long time. OCR Optical Character recognition is another one used to automate the accounts payable process by quickly scanning invoices predicting based on the training that it's received and where it falls in the document what might, what might be on that invoice or po. And now we're seeing so many other ways in which we could be incorporating generative AI, you know, to automate user tasks to quickly perform repetitive tasks much faster enhancing productivity. And this is absolutely going to take a lot of upskilling within the organization in order to prepare all of us honestly for what really is, is the future of technologies in the workplace, especially within manufacturing.

Yeah, I mean it's the new, you know, the combine. You know, when the combine was invented, farming changed forever. Right. When the computer was invented when the telephone wasn't, you know, so I feel like it is one of those step changes in our, in human history really. Not to be too over the top, but I think it is. And yeah, so for sure it's changing. I mean, we just did a webinar recently on how to use chat GBT plus the, the paid version, you know, to do some statistical analysis that basically what we used to spend big bucks on and still do on some certain software packages, you know, I mean, you can just pay 20 bucks and click a few buttons and it does it all. So it's, it's here, you know, and so I feel like, you know, you've got to cooperate with it or from a business perspective, if you're a business and you're sort of, we don't need that. You know, I don't think it's gonna bode well for, for your business, you know, down the road. It's interesting. Even some places in, in the world and different, I won't name out countries or anything like that, but there's certain countries who are very resistant to it and you know, I'll be very curious to watch their GDP compared to, you know, GDP of company countries that are fully embracing it and see, see, let's see if there, if there is a statistical difference. I think there will be.

I agree. Yes. And as you are, you know, hosting those kinds of webinars and things, what are the, what are the kinds of people, employees, professionals that you see using ChatGPT and statistical analysis or otherwise?

Yeah, I mean, this, we had, I don't know, 100 people maybe on to it. You know, it was a, you know, they had to pay a little bit of money to come onto it. Not much, but a little bit. So it wasn't free, but yeah, it was. You know, we're in our movement here gambling academy. We deal with a lot of folks in the Six Sigma world or the lean world. And so it was largely made up of folks more on the sort of the Six Sigma quality side. But you know, everybody from managers to, you know, practitioners who are out trying to make improvements, that sort of thing, those are the folks that were, were that were present. And yeah, it was interesting. You know, we had, you know, there's always just some, any kind of change is difficult for some people. So there was even some people who paid money to come on there and they're kind of like complaining about it. Why'd you come on here? You're complaining about you paid money? You know, just. Let's Go, let's do it. You know, but so it's just one of those topics, you know, that's, it's, it's sensitive, you know, I think there's, there's a lot of uncertainty and some, some people don't do well with uncertainty, you know, it just wrecks them. And you know, but we're lucky in our lean movement. You know, we're sort of trained to deal with uncertainty and, and, and journey through the unknown sort of thing and experiment and learn as you go. And so I feel like our movement maybe is a little bit, I don't know, better prepared for some uncertainty because that's what we do, right? We solve problems. So.

Absolutely. And that's great too. I mean, really. AI chatgpt GENERATIVE AI. It's here, it's not going away. And the best thing we can do is really channel it for good.

Yeah. And, yeah, I mean, and I think this, it's like anything, it can be and it will be used for evil, you know, I mean, you know, someone will duplicate Ron Pereira on video and it'll look just like me and told my wife, you get any crazy videos, it might not be me. Right. Yeah, so, so, but you know, that's, it's already happening and there's bad people in the world and they're going to use it for bad and there's good people in the world and they're going to use it for good. And you know, what's, what's new? Right. It's been happening for as long as human beings have been walking around. So.

Yeah. And we can do our part.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, hey, this has been fun, Carrie. I really enjoyed the conversation. Maybe do you have any sort of final words of wisdom or advice for folks that are listening and, you know, want to make their workplace a better, better place? And I don't know, just any final words.

Yeah, well, okay. One of the things that I wanted to mention is, and by the way, I also really enjoyed this. I'm so glad we've had this chance to talk through. I would say, you know, continue to make technology and sustainability in your business a priority. One of the interesting things that I didn't mention yet, but in this report we found that 60%, so six out of 10 people said that they would take a pay cut to go work for a more technology driven factory or a more sustainable factory. And you know, that that was kind of a, you know, would you ever kind of question, you know, but it's interesting just to even know that people would think yes, that matters to me. You know, it matters to me that I'm working at a place that is investing in the future, that is investing in me, and I want to be a part of an organization that cares about that. So I would say, you know, think about your team, think about your people, and how can you invest in them? By making technology a priority. But. But also, investing in your people is so closely tied to those other things we talked about around providing a flexible work schedule and continuing to invest in upskilling. These are tough initiatives to solve, but absolutely rewarding and worth doing. So take messy action. It might not be perfect.

Go to the edges.

Right, right, right. Get to the edge. Know what you're capable of and push it. Push to see what you can really do. And. And, yeah, learn. Learn from mistakes.

And lean. We often talk about, you approach what we call a threshold of knowledge. You get to a point to where you just don' what to do or imagine. You're shining a flashlight in the dark, and it only goes so far. The light only goes so far. The only way to move forward is to take a step into the unknown. And for us in the lean movement, we're experimenting and learning and trying to overcome those obstacles that. That are in that threshold of knowledge. And so I feel like it's the same thing, whether it's technology or dealing with, you know, a workforce is like, what can we do to experiment and learn? Don't have to have the pressure of like, well, if I implement this piece of software or if I give this much time, you know, that's going to be about, you got to test it, right. And you got to learn and you got to experiment and listen and, you know, observe. So I feel like all these things are. It's like a big spider web, right? You pull it and the whole web moves. So.

Yep, yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's all related.

Great. All right. Hey, Carrie, if folks want to connect with you personally, what's the best way?

Yeah, thank you for asking. Yes, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Carrie Jordan at LinkedIn. You can find me there to learn more about Epicor. Just Epicor.com. but if you reach out to me, I am more than happy to start a conversation with you about, you know, how we can help you in your manufacturing business, how, you know, this survey has revealed new insights, or if you want to chat about the weather, I'm there, too.

I was going to ask, is that survey something that other people can get their hands on or.

Most definitely, yes.

So just reach out to you for that or.

Please do. Please do. Yep. It's Also on the Epicore.com website on our blog.

Oh, okay, perfect. All right, well, and we'll get everything linked up in the show notes, so just everybody just scroll down in your app there and. And we'll link everything up and then keep going down. Hit five stars. You know, all that kind of stuff. Right? You know, Carrie was great. Give a shout out to Carrie in the. In the podcast comments there.

Thank you so much, Ron. It was wonderful to talk with you and thank you.

Yeah, this is a lot of fun. All right, take care. Thanks for listening. Whether you've been on the continuous improvement journey for many years or perhaps you're just getting started, Gemba Academy is here to support you. And while we're best known for our more than 1500 lean and 6 Sigma teaching and virtual tour videos, we also have a team of experienced Lean and Sigma Sigma practitioners available for one on one coaching, as well as a variety of Lean and Six Sigma certification options. To learn more and to schedule a demo, head on over to gembaacademy. Com.