GA 537 | Standing Up a Lean and Six Sigma Program with Gary Cihak

You know, if you're new in the journey and you're going down the lean Six Sigma pathway, I think it is to be curious, right? Ask questions, drive into it, and once you see the light, things will start making sense for you, and then it becomes contagious. You want to spread it all over, and you want other people to be as excited as the things that you see or you've done.

Today I am excited to welcome Gary Seahak to the show. Now, Gary is a Lean distribution manager for a company called Atcor. And so Gary works with a bunch of different business units within Atkor on standing up their Lean and their Six Sigma training organization. And I've known Gary for a while, and he's got a really strong background and just a fantastic Lean thinker. And as the stars kind of align perfectly, Gary and some of his colleagues actually came into the Gemba Academy studios and office to. To have some. Just some business meetings to talk about some future business developments that we have working with Atkore. And while was here, I said, hey, Gary, why don't we go do a podcast? And he agreed. And so we were able to do this interview here in studio, and we had a really good conversation. So really, I guess the emphasis of today's show is on how you might go about standing up a Lean and Six Sigma training program organization within a company. And Gary's had some experience doing that, and in fact, he's actively working to do the same thing at Atkor, where they're doing some really amazing work already. So he's full of wisdom and just a really good guy, and I think you're going to enjoy this show. All right, show notes can be found over@gembapodcast.com look for episode 537. Also, be sure to connect with Gary. And during the interview, he talks about a pretty powerful nonprofit that he did some work with. And I want everyone to go check out that organization. We're gonna have it linked below. And. Yeah, well enough for me. Let's get to the show. Gary, welcome to the studio. How are you?

Good. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, man. It's been fun having you and your. Your colleagues here today to do a little tour and talk a little bit about Gamba Academy and all that. So, as you know, Gary, we like to get started with our guests sharing a quote. So what do you got?

So my quote today and. And seeing that we're. We're close to D Day, it's a Winston Churchill quote. It's don't let. Don't Let progress or don't let perfection interfere with progress.

What's that mean to you?

So that means to me, and I've had managers that have told me in the past, it's a little bit goes a long way, and don't wait for the perfect solution to implement some solutions.

Nice, nice. I love it. And people are like, d Day. We're recording this in June, people. So, yeah, it's released.

Right.

A little bit later on, but yeah.

Awesome.

All right, well, hey, Gary, tell us a little bit about your background. Tell us how you first got involved in continuous improvement, and tell us what you're up to these days.

Yeah, so I started my journey in distribution about 30 years ago. I've worked in manufacturing, distribution mainly, and then transportation, a little bit of transportation and my Lean Journey. I kind of started my Lean Journey back in around 2010. I was exposed to a green belt project that I partnered with HR Group on improving injury and accident reporting in our RDCs. So that was kind of our. My first experiences in it. And then I've kind of worked through my green belt, my black belt in 2018, and then now I'm working on my master black belt with the Gamba Academy.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, I think this is part of the master black belt program. Midnight, you know, check off a requirement.

Man.

John Knox. Look at that, man. Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. That's great. All right, well, hey, so before we were, you know, even decided to do a podcast, we were talking about sort of your ideas, your thoughts, your experience on standing up, sort of a continuous improvement program, Lean Six Sigma and all the rest of it. And so I thought might be kind of fun to explore, just really your thoughts on how you've gone about it, what you've learned along the way. If you. Maybe. If you could go back and do anything different, would you. So what. What are your thoughts on just that overall idea of standing up a program.

So, you know, practicing Lean and standing up a program for, you know, like a management system developed just for Lean. In my experiences in the past, I've had smatterings of Lean across different facilities. Some were good at something, some were not as good. And just the rollout process of having something that's documented where we could have a lean program implemented from start to finish, and then checkpoints going through that and. And not missing anything and kind of working on how they all relate together. Because I've seen a lot of companies that I've been at where they. They love the idea. They. They like the idea, but not necessarily don't have the rollout plan or how to get it so that it sticks and it's sustainable.

So, okay, so let's just pretend you're in a situation to where you know, you're brought in and you're trying to, trying to get things going. Like what are some of the things that you're going to be thinking about and doing in those, maybe those early phases.

Yeah. So I think, you know, you start off with the building blocks by having some type of training program. A TWI rollout would, would be best. And then getting, starting from the beginning, training people in TWI and getting them rolled out into the processes on the floor that leading to standard work leader standard work and then development of 5s in the facilities and then moving forward into lean daily management and then having visual controls is kind of like the overall to make sure that everything's working and clicking.

I know you're a big fan of job instruction, the JI aspect of twi. Talk a little bit about your experience with job instruction.

Yeah. So job instruction, you know, it's the building blocks for getting the process down. And I really like the technique. Once you have the job instruction and getting the person involved directly, it's the watch me as I do it. And then it's here's the what and the why. And then it's the repeat back to me, what, the what, the why and why we're doing it. And I've seen, I've had great success with that, using it. People getting up to speed really quickly in the TWA process in the ji.

Yeah. Yesterday when we were visiting you guys, the. I think you shared a story even of how you use JI to quickly train some folks or something like that. What was that about again?

So we had a, we, we committed to, to do TWI across our facilities. And so it was, you know, getting people trained in TWI to learn why we're doing it. And then we had an associate who was a 15 year associate, he just happened to have broke his leg and he needed work not on the floor that he was doing. And so we sat him down and he was an expert in all the different positions and he wrote the job instructions for all the different positions. We were able to roll out JI and get our first training class with new hires in that we had to open up a second shift and we had to get those people trained up really quickly. And because it was on second shift, you don't have as many resources so we had to get them up and trained really fast. And so we used the job instructions and he brought that group up. It was five associates. Within a week, they were picking as fast as all of our other pickers.

And how long would it have typically taken had you not done the JI approach?

Probably at least four to six weeks.

Wow. W. Big improvement. Yeah, that's. I mean, if you just think about it, I mean, you can't refute like just the. Even though the origin stories of JI with Rosita Riveter, you know, back in the wartime, you know, I mean, my gosh. That's why the allies won the war, right?

Exactly.

Because we could build the war machine faster. So, yeah, it's. That's pretty incredible. What about, you know, some of those basic building blocks, like 5s? Like, how do you. Something we were even talking about earlier today was, you know, how to make sure that people just don't look at 5s as like a chore or just. Just cleaning up or whatever. Like what. What are your thoughts on taking something like 5s and really deeply embedding it in an organization?

Yeah, so I think it's. It's all in how you roll it out in the exposure. I've heard that many a times where it's, now it's time to go clean up. Let's do 5s. And they're missing the whole point of it. Right. So if you go through the steps and you train people on 5s and you start at the building blocks and you sort and the set and explain the whys for each of them and then the shine and then the standardize and sustain. If you go through those with people, they will. It'll stick better if they know why they're doing it. And then hopefully, ultimately you're. You're. You're doing it as you work. So it's not in addition to what we do, it's how we do it. It's how we work. And if we have everything in our place and a place for everything, and you're going to get that buy in from people.

Have you, have you had any experience where you've done it well and maybe where you've done it poorly?

Yeah. So, yeah, there's been times where we had a. What they call a modification area where we modified a motor. And when I first started, we opened the drawers and it was just a sea of tools that were mixed and matched and everything. And so I thought this would be a great opportunity to work with a couple of the modifiers there to set up their area and 5s. Their area so I mean, it started with a red tag event and let's get everything out that we don't need and sort. And then all the way up through where we had shadow shadow boards for all the tools and even the insert lay foam that you put in for the different tools and only the ones they really needed, not the ones they didn't need. So went really well on that rollout. And then a poorly one is where you try to, you're trying to implement 5s across a whole facility at once. And so everybody had, you know, you split up a half a million square foot building into five zones and you try and roll it out that way and not everybody's really knows what they should be doing and. Or why or why. They don't know the why. Right. So that's a big one for Lean is what's the why and what is the benefit for me? Right? And why should I do it?

Man, I remember I worked well, I won't say the name, but you can look at my LinkedIn profile and probably figure it out. But it was early days of a big company and my wife was even working here at the time in the HR department, in the staffing department. We were hiring so many people, they just couldn't hire them fast enough. And yeah, they did a big5s initiative across this whole facilities. So everybody went through the training, you know, even my wife and HR team, they all went through the training. And big posters, beautiful banners hanging everywhere. The 5s police, as I called them, would come in at night when you were at home and they would leave little red stickers on your desk if you had any items in violation of the said 5s policy. And I mean, obviously like come into work, you know, and all of a sudden you see like red stickers on. You got too many family pictures on your desk or whatever, you know, it was like, what's that guy do with anything? You know, and it was so. I mean, I think that the heart was in the right place, but it's just, you know, when you get a little bit carried away with that, it becomes what my friend Mark Graben calls lame. Lean as misguidedly executed.

Oh, there you go. That's a great acronym.

It's lame as misguidedly executed. Yeah, so that. Very lame. Right? And it didn't work, you know, I mean, he came back a year later and, you know, the place wasn't horrible, but it could have been so much better. Right? So why are we doing this? What problem are we trying to solve? What's what's in it for you, Mr. Mr. Mrs. Employee kind of thing. And yeah, it's so often it's just not done though, for whatever reason.

Right. I think, you know, we talked about the entropy. Right. So things are going to revert back so to the natural state. So you're always in constant battle with that. And how do we, how do we overcome that? I think it's just by engagement. Right. We're being engaged. We're not. We're not. We're talking it up. We're kind of, we're showing, I guess, the benefits. Right. And I like how I've seen in some of your videos where they stand around the circle and they say, this is what I did today. And, and this is how 5S helped me today. And everybody share their stories and I think that help sustain it or at least make it stick for a little bit better. Punishing people for not having too many pictures on their desk doesn't sound like a winning. Yeah, a winning game.

Don't do that.

Right? We won't. Definitely.

Yeah.

No.

I'm wondering, you've been at this a long time, Gary. I wonder if you can look back on what you've accomplished so far. What are you most proud of?

Well, in my past, one of the things that I am most proud of is when I did my capsule for my master's degree in supply chain management and I actually worked for a nonprofit, the Northern Illinois Food bank, and we redesigned their warehouse and distribution system and implemented some lean practices into their facility. And you know, when I look back at that time, it was really a challenge because it was a company that is trying to put themselves out of business because if there is no hunger in the world, you don't eat food banks. So the goal is not to make a profit, but it's to service people and actually try and put yourself out of business. So that was kind of interesting. And what I'm most proud of is that a number of years later, after we delivered that presentation to them, they actually, they got a donation to build a new building and they actually put into effect all those practices that we had laid out for them. And now team, there's team building activities that can, that can happen there. They have a giant room where they sort different foods and that kind of thing. And other companies can bring their people in and can, they can sort out their. As a team building exercise for their groups. So very cool.

Wow, that's a. How did it make you feel when you, when you heard that they were, you know, putting your stuff in and.

That was a real warm and fuzzy. It felt really good. Very proud. And I actually reached out to some of my cohorts that I worked with. Yeah. That on it. And they were, they were shocked too. And they, they got a good feeling for it too. But yeah, if you, if you're in the Northern Illinois area and you want to do a team building event for your group, go to the Northern Illinois Food bank and you can see kind of the stuff we put in place there. Wow.

Okay, well, I'll get you to send me the link to it or whatever their website and we'll put it in the show notes so people can, can, can check it out. I'm wondering, Gary, if there's someone listening right now who is. Maybe we'll take it in two approaches. The first approach, talk to that person who is new to continuous improvement. Maybe they're a leader of people and they're trying to stand up. You know, just continuous improvement, lean Six Sigma, whatever it might be. Aside from the obvious, go to gembacademy.com, you know.

Right.

But seriously, like, what were some practical tips that you have to that person?

Well, you know, if you're new in the journey and you're going down, the lean Six Sigma pathway, I think is to be curious. Right. Ask questions, drive into it. And once you see, and I say this to everybody, once you see the light, things will start making sense for you and then it becomes contagious. You want to spread it all over and you want other people to be as excited as the things that you see or you've done. So keep with it, stick with it. There's good rollouts and there's bad rollouts. We've talked a little bit about those. But take it as a learning lesson for the bad ones and take it as a pat on the back or congratulations on the ones that work and keep driving, keep striving and you know, it's really become my passion. So I've kind of gotten, I was an operator and I love operations and running operations and smooth operations. But as I developed through my career path, I found that I enjoy the most of the process improvements, the continuous improvement path. And so that's what really drives me. That's what gets my juices flowing. And so if you're new to it and you haven't been been exposed to it, keep pushing. It's a great tool to have. And someday you may be in the chair where I'm at and doing what I'm doing. So, yeah, it's great.

When did you see the light probably.

Around 2012, 2013 after that first exposure. And then I started digging in a little bit, but then actually getting out and practicing. And again, that's where perfection is the enemy of progress. So go out and try something and see if it works for you. And these things you can take to your home, you can do them in your home. You can go into your garage. That's a mess. And you can 5s your garage. And you can look at the wastes of, why do I have to get out of my car to open my garage door? Why can't I find a different process for that? So these things can all be applied to your personal life for improvement. And just don't take it too far, like you said, then it's lame.

You mentioned entropy. I think my version of entropy is three young children. My older kids are. Or, you know, they don't really go out into the garage or the barn much anymore, but my, My three younger ones, they're entropy.

Right? There you go.

It's like, come on, kids. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so maybe the second part of that question then is maybe there's some folks listening who have, you know, they've got a. An initiative. They've got, they've got, you know, green belts, black belts. They got lean folks running around. But maybe things have gotten a little stale. You know, maybe the, The. The initial excitement, you know, it's gone. Yeah, it's gone now. It's. Now it's sort of a grind. Like speak to that person.

So I would say that person, I would say reach out to Dagemba Academy. They got some great ideas to kind of reinvigorate your lean journey. And, and that's kind of why we're here today, is to kind of get the juices flowing again in our. A newer facility, but in all of our facilities that have been around for a while. So, yeah, I would say lean towards the experts if you need that. But also the never give up spirit. Right. The continuous improvement never ends. So keep driving and keep pushing for continuous improvement.

Yeah. And what I appreciate about you guys at Accor is, you know, you're really tapping into, always coming back to, like, why. And really, you know, yesterday you guys gave us a little presentation just talking about your values and, and, you know, really orienting everything back to that. And I think that's also super important to do for every company is if you really believe in what you're trying to accomplish as an organization, then how can continuous improvement help facilitate that? Right. And then it's Just a, it's sort of a no brainer. Right. To keep going and keep trying and, and keep learning. Right. You mentioned that earlier today.

Definitely.

Like if you stop learning that, well, bad things are going to happen.

Exactly. Right. You don't want that.

Yeah, yeah. Good stuff. Awesome. Well, hey Gary, if folks wanted to connect with you, you personally, what would.

Be the best way so you can reach out to me through social media? LinkedIn, Gary C hack. And that's C, I H, A K. I know it's a funny five letters, but that's how we say it. And that's gary Siak at LinkedIn.

Okay. Yeah, and we'll. Everybody just scroll down on the show notes there and we'll, we'll have everything linked up and including that food bank to. Or.

Yep.

Yeah, food bank. Yeah, to go out and check that out. I mean I'm, I'm actually interested. I have family up in that area. So yeah, maybe if I'm up there, go swing by and say, hey, Gary sent me.

Yeah, go take a tour, see what's up.

Awesome. All right, well, hey, thanks for coming in, Gary. It's been a lot of fun.

Appreciate it. Thank you.

Thanks for listening. Whether you've been on the continuous improvement journey for many years or perhaps you're just getting started, Gemba Academy is here to support you. And while we're best known for more than 1500 Lean and Six Sigma teaching and virtual tour videos, we also have a team of experienced Lean and Six Sigma practitioners available for one on one coaching as well as a variety of Lean and Six Sigma certification options. To learn more and to schedule a demo, head on over to gembaacademy.com.