GA 558 | The Power Is in the Question with Topaz Adizes

It's like there's as many stories and experiences there are of grains of sands on the beach. You know, I could put anyone together in a room who have some kind of relationship, knowing a little bit about background about them, posing well constructed questions in the proper environment, and you can have an incredible conversation and only are they having an incredible experience. But as a viewer, there's going to be a lot for us to learn by watching it.

Today I am excited to welcome Topaz Azizas to the show. Now listen, folks, this, this is our normal Gemba Academy podcast where we have some nice lean discussion and continuous improvement and all this kind of good stuff. Those are fantastic. Obviously we've had 500 and some episodes of those, but today is a very different one. And I really, I truly didn't have much of an idea of what we were going to talk about, but it sounded interesting to me for some reason and I just like, let's go for it. Let's try it. Well, as you're going to hear, Topaz has an organization where they. Well, he does a great job explaining it. I'm going to kind of butcher it. But they basically have people come together and talk to one another and they film it. But in order to do this, there's some questions that are asked back and forth. And what he talks about is something called the and. And the and is sort of that space in between. In fact, I'm talking to you, you talk back to me, but there's a space in between us and that's what they're really trying to study. And so we talk all about that, just really, just about human behavior and we get into the sort of the world and what has it got to do with us in the business world, but also just as human beings, like, what has it got to do with us? And how can we, how can we use this sort of tactic to, you know, get along better, get to know people better, move our businesses forward and so forth. So it was a really fascinating discussion. I don't. Here's a little dirty secret. I don't always listen back to our podcast because I'm on them. I do the interviewing. But man, I cannot wait to listen to this one again because I think this is going to be one where there's things that I missed because I was just, I was asking questions, right? But, oh, I think it's going to be good. So please listen to this one all the way through and then share it with someone because again, it's not about leans, not about Six Sigma. Share it with your grandma, you know, I mean, you share with anybody and really, really good stuff. Now I want you to scroll down on whatever app you're listening to on and go and connect with. With Topaz. And then also check out the work that they've got. They've got these cards, and he talks about them, where they have them. They make them for, like, businesses, but they make, you know, parent and kid or whatever it might be. And so there's different versions of them. But I'm totally going to get some because I want to try it. I want to try it here at work, and then I want to try it at home with my. With my family. So good stuff. So check out the show notes and scroll down on your app to go connect with Topaz and see all the good work that they're doing. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. Topaz, welcome to the show. How are you?

Hey, Ron. It's good, thank you. I got a little bit of a hay fever allergy going on so far.

Oh, man. I feel you, man. I've been down here in Texas and, yeah, it's been rough, man. Where are you?

I'm in Uruguay. I'm way south. I'm actually. You're going into the fall? I'm going into spring.

Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. Well, very good. Well, hey, you know the drill, Topaz. We like to begin all of our shows with our guests sharing a quote. So what do you got?

I got one of my favorites, and it's actually my book, but it's a driving one for me by a author and psychiatrist named David S. Fiscot. And he had a statement that I think resonates for me. It's just that the purpose of life is to find your gift. The work of life is to develop it, and the meaning of life is to give it away. And I think. Yeah, I think. I think that that motivates me a lot, and it reminds me about, you know, every experience you have shapes you into an opportunity to create a gift that you can offer others. Yeah, you know, only if you choose to see it that way.

Right, right. Oh, it's beautiful. All right, well, hey, tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us about your background, how you got into the line of work that you're in. And then what is that line of work? What are you guys up to?

I. I'm. For a long time, I was a film director. I was a film director. I made films. So I went to Sundance, went to Cannes. I had that Experience. And at some point I realized I didn't want to make money off my time. I wanted to make something else because it was a bad business model. I would be bleeding my heart into a piece of film. And I come away with a. With no energy and no return of money to myself or, you know, hopefully for my investors. But I decided there was got to be another way. And the other way was the understanding that I could create content that was a conversation piece on the Internet. You know, it all came down to I was a can, I had a film at can, and I thought I made it right. And nothing happened. I had projects ready, nothing got picked up. And then I, by accident, I put my film on Vimeo without a password and got picked up short of the week. Film of the week. And a half a million people saw it in a week. And it really made me question, what game am I playing? Am I playing the game of modern day meditation? That's how I saw cinema. People go into a space and they watch a film and, you know, it's breathing patterns consistent, your focus, it's like popular culture meditation. Or am I in the game of injecting ideas, conversation pieces into the mainstream? Ooh, that second one was really interesting. So if that's the game I want to play as creating conversations and injecting ideas into the mainstream, the way to do that is through digital. Because look at how fast this film was watched by half a million people in a week. How much time, money and energy would have taken me to do it through the normal theatrical routes. And so that really begged the question, what game am I playing? And I decided to play this other game which was creating content digital. And so then the question was, well, what subject matter am I going to explore? And for me, what was really obvious, I have a brother who's 16 years younger than I. We were both living in New York and dating single. And I just saw how his relationship to technology was so profoundly different than mine. And I saw because of that, how he was dating totally different than I was. And I realized that for myself, I realized that we humans are so good at adapting that this wave of technology is shifting our lives. This is 10 years, it's 2013, 14 is changing the way we're emotionally experiencing life. And so I was really interested in exploring that question. And that's where I went. But doing it through the digital platform, because that's a way of. It's a great question. How's the emotional experience of being human shifting in lieu of all this technology and Doing it on digital platforms because that's how you can really have incredible conversations and it can spread fast and really be highly more engaged than your traditional TV or film distribution routes. So that led me down to creating this project called the and. And the and is about the space between and you can find. We've, you know, basically for the last 11, 12, 11 years we've been filming over 1250 conversations between all kinds of relationships, all kinds of people in 10 countries who face each other and ask each other questions. And we film it with three, three cameras, a wide shot and two close ups. And we always present it to the viewer, both faces at the same time. Either a bi panel or if we're showing you the. The wide shot in the middle, a triptych. But you're always seeing the speaker and the listener. Okay, that's really powerful because think about all the content we watch. You're always seeing who's talking, you don't see who's listening at the same time. And what we're saying by virtue of the visualization of what we're illuminating or showing is that it's not just about the speaker, it's also about the listener. It's about, it's about their connections, about the space between. That's what's important. And so yeah, for the last 11 years we've been doing that and we have a book out called 12 Questions for Love, which is distillation of everything I've learned. And if you're a viewer and you're about to check off on this podcast, you're wondering, why did Ron bring this type of character onto podcast? Because I know I'm not quite the mold of traditionally because I've seen all your great guests that you've had on. It's simply that I've had the privilege, opportunity to witness over 12, 50 intimate, cathartic conversations.

Okay, so. So before, before this interview I was watching a video and we'll link it up in the show notes. It's a YouTube video. Prison couldn't keep me from you. The. And Sienna and Matthew looks like a, I believe a father and son or father. Daughter.

Yeah.

So like what was that all about? Like what, what was.

So.

Yeah, it was, it was emotional and all the rest of it in the beginning and all that, like, what problem were you. Are you trying to solve? Just take that video in particular. Where is there like a situation with them? Are they they normal? And you're just trying to like, what are we trying to accomplish with that video?

We believe that there's something to learn from every conversation. You have to create the space and ask well constructed questions. And when you do that, there's something to learn from every conversation, regardless of whether you're in the conversation or witnessing the conversation. And this project is amazing because it's, it's, it's like there's as many stories and experiences there are of grains of sands on the beach. There's just we, you know, I could put anyone together in a room who have some kind of relationship, knowing a little bit about background about them, posing well constructed questions in the, in the, in the, in the proper environment and you can have an incredible conversation and only are they having an incredible experience. But as a viewer, there's going to be a lot for us to learn by watching it. Because in essence, we're seeing ourselves, we're seeing who we are, we're seeing who we are, not pursuing who we don't want to be. We're seeing who we want to be, who we could be. And now that we're in our 11th year, you know, we do productions. We just did one in Austin in April. Two pairs drove from Houston and another pair flew from New York. Mind you, we don't pay anyone to be on the end. That's just not, it's a documentary project. Participate. People come in. Why at this point, they come in because they're using our car games and watching the videos. It informs the relationships in their lives. It informs how they're being. They're using the card games to create the space and explore their relationships with one another. They're watching these videos and go, oh, you know what? I don't listen to my partner that way. I want to copy what Ben does when he speaks to Sidra, right? So there's no, look, we don't have an agenda about what it is that we're putting out there. What we're doing. The intention is what we have, which is create the space for humans to be humans and then share that with the world.

Are you able to share a couple examples of some of the questions?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, we have. So in 12 Questions for Love, I have, here's the 12 questions. Why they work, how they work, how to construct the actual question, how to construct the sequence of questions to really take you on a cathartic, incredible journey. I also, you know, we have what, 15 editions of the card games that enables you to create the space to just play the game and there's questions. So in a relationship, like here in 12 Questions for Love, you know, the climactic question. The most powerful one that we build up to you is what's the pain in me you wish you could heal and why? You know, but of course we don't just start there. Right.

We start more into that kind of thing.

Yeah, there's a five act structure to the 12 questions. And I did it, I did it over 12 questions. Because generally when we bring people into production, I have them east each, I give them each 12 questions to ask. And so there's an architecture to that. Right.

So person one's going to ask question one, person two ask question two.

About back and forth, back and forth. And then depending, you know, how much time we have, it's. So usually it's about 24 questions or 10 questions. But I just dealed it down. I mean, the structure is the same. The opening is you're building, you're going to the past, you're acknowledging what brought us here. You know, it's kind of similar. I was listening to the call podcast you had with Bell. Was it Adrian Bell?

April.

April Bell. And she kind of said, like, how it becomes so intrinsic that you ask those four questions, like, where are we now? Where do you want to go? I don't know what the other.

Yeah, yeah.

Questions are, but you're asking yourselves questions, which puts you in a position to shape your answers. Yeah, right. And that's what I've learned is like the power. Everyone is so focused on the answer. That's not where the power is at. The power is in the question. Let me give an example. If you ask your kids, do you want to go to sleep? You and I both know the what the answer is going to be. It's a no. First of all, it's a. Any question that you start with do is are, would, should. I don't care what comes after those beginning words. That's a binary. The response is binary. So don't ask a binary question. You know, if you want to have a conversation that explores relations, that explores what your business is doing, how to improve, don't ask these binary questions. So if you ask your kids instead, do you want to sleep on the couch or in your bed? The question of whether they go to bed is not an option. The option is on the bed. So the question shapes just like a race course. You know, the race is run, is shaped by the course it's run on.

Yeah.

Or driven on. So are the answers. And we too often do not focus on the questions. I was listening to an interview with Elon Musk on Lex Friedman show And he was said just recently, he said, you know, oftentimes, sometimes we're racing, we, we find the right answer to the wrong question. What's the point of that? The emphasis is on the question, do you construct good questions? And that's what we've been privy to learn. You know, one for the co workers that I like a lot is what value do we not share with our clients? Because it's not one we often ask. But just asking that question puts us in a position because our mind is a faithful dog that will chase down any stick you throw. And where you throw the stick is the question you ask. So if you ask a question, what are the value? What is a value we do not share with our clients? Your mind will do its best to find you the answer. Much like if you broke up with a partner and you asked the question, why they break up with me, well, that's not a great stick to throw. That's not a great question to throw. Why? Because that dog. Your mind is going to find a whole litany of reasons why they broke up with you. And how good does that make you feel? How empowered are those answers? They're not. Instead you say, you know, what am I going to learn from this relationship that I'll carry to the next.

Mm.

What lessons did we learn this year that we'll carry next year in our business for greater success? How much does earning money cost us? I like that question because we don't often ask that. Right. So we could double click on these things of how to construct quality questions. There's five parts to it from our, from the way we do it. We can talk about that. But I mean I could give you a whole list of questions. You want more or what would you like?

No, no, no. I'm so, I'm curious like you, you have different sets of questions for different, like you said, a business or civil relationship and me and my kids and.

Exactly. Yeah, I have kids edition. Strangers, friends, family, dating.

So okay, I got the work edition. Right.

Co workers. Yeah.

So what do I do? Just like I just sit down with my colleague and we do it every.

Friday in our, in our wrap up call with our team and it's a great way to create space. I'll tell you why you're in a business meeting. The boss asks a question, everyone is not really thinking about how they're going to ask a question. They're thinking about. Why did they ask that question? What does the boss want to hear so that I can maintain my job or get elevated my Position or secure, you know, whatever, Right? Because there's an agenda behind it. And so therefore you're not really, you're not really engaging with the, with the question, you're engaging with the politics around the question. But if you bring out a deck of cards and it's random, then you know that where this question is coming from, it's not an agenda, it's not a power play, Right? So, like, I'm going to open this up. Let's say we're working together in our team. We do this. I know that for the listeners, they don't see visual, but I, you know, we're on the, this call, zoom call or not. And literally I'll hold the deck up like this and I'll like just flick it. And the person watching would say, stop. And then I just like ask me that one. What's one thing we can do? What's one thing we can do to improve our working relationship? Let me do another one randomly. I mean, and what's beautiful is it's random. It's like, okay, how am I helping you become the person you want to be? What would you guess is my biggest fear and why?

So how many? So if we sat down to do this exercise and how many questions would you propose get explored with my team?

There's a number of ways for us to play it. I mean, you could ask one question and everyone answers it, right? And that's it. You could also have each person say stop. They ask, they get asked a question and they answer it. And then you go to the next person and they say stop, they get it. So everyone gets their own question that they can answer for themselves. And what's beautiful about these scenarios is that. When the question's asked before the person answers it, there's three conversations going on. So you're watching. Ron gets asked a question in our team and he gets asked a question. You know, what's a value we do not share in our. Or what's your biggest fear for the next year for the company or biggest concern or biggest opportunity, whatever it is. Now I'm thinking, oh, I bet Ron's going to say this. That's one, two. I'm going to say, oh, you know what I would say to that? I think it's this. And then the third thing that comes up is actually what you say. So the team is already percolating on these ideas and it's a great way to develop teamwork and camaraderie and cohesion by asking well constructed questions. Right. And, and so with the card game does two things. A creates a space because the boss is not coming. Say, hey, guys, I have this question. No, it's random. It's a box. It's a game. There's this game called the end. Let's play it. Okay. Random question comes up. And sometimes there's usually. Sometimes the question comes up and it's the elephant in the room. And everyone goes, ooh, but how great is that? The elephant in the room was asked randomly by a deck of cards. It wasn't like someone brought it up and they go, why'd they have to bring up the elephant in the room? Mm. So it's a wonderful way to create the space. And what we want in the space is safety while we're uncomfortable. And let's not confound. Safety and comfort.

Yeah.

Because it's not the same thing.

Yeah.

If I jump off a cliff with a bungee cord, I'm definitely uncomfortable, but I'm hopefully safe, Right?

Yeah.

So that's what you want and what the payoff the job about the bungee cord is. It's an incredible experience. I feel alive, I feel fulfilled, and I feel more confident myself that I could do this. And okay, great. I had this incredible experience of life that happens in our work too.

Yeah. What are the different types that you have now? You got business one.

I have a co workers. We have a team building one. We have an on racism one, which is very potent. We have friends, family, kids.

Those are all different ones.

Oh, yeah, all different. I have. We have 15 decks and then we.

Have a few kids are one deck is 200 questions.

Yeah.

So parent to kid or kid to.

Kid or it can work for both. Kid to kid or parent to kid. We really created it for parents to kids, but apparently the kids are playing the parent also. Same way. It works for both ways. Okay. The kid will ask the. You know, I think one of those. Do I have one here? I think one of those, if I'm correct, it's. You know, who do you think has a more challenging. Who do you think has more challenges, the kid or the parent? When was the last time you were really kind to someone? Right. What was the last thing you did that surprised me? What do you think is the last thing you did that surprised me?

Wow.

And that's a great one because it puts you. It put. Yeah.

See, truth be told, I kind of had an idea what we were going to talk about today, but now I'm all like, I'm going to buy these damn cards. I mean, and I didn't mean for this to be a sales pitch for you, man, but it sounds super interesting. Like, I could, to me. Well, just from watching that video of the.

Of the.

The father and the daughter, you know, I mean, obviously, it's very. You know, there's a lot of drama. And the thing that, like, really caught me was she asked him a question. Yes, she asked the question, I think. And then he just sat there.

And.

He just looked at her, and you could see pain was emanating from him. I didn't know why, because I just started watching it.

Yeah.

And then he just starts talking a little bit, you know, and about this and that, about how he was in prison and his mom, or the mom brought the. The daughter in when she's a baby or, you know, and just like. But. But I tell you, the powerful part of that was when no words were being said. Yeah, right. Like just that, like. And you said that's maybe the. And, Right.

Yeah, that is.

And there's not enough of that because so many of us. Myself, I'm the worst at it. You said to just, like, ask, to resp. Or listen, to respond. I'm just waiting for you to shut up so I can say what I want to say. And I'm not even hearing you, man. You know what I mean? And, like, just having that ability to sort of embrace that silence. Right. Just for a little bit and be okay with. With silence is. It's so hard. But I'm wondering if this sort of exercise, maybe you learn to facilitate that more.

Absolutely. Because you get good at what you practice, and you need to see it represented. Right. I mean, how. Where do we really learn how to communicate and have conversations? It gets bottled for us in our families and maybe our friend group. And here There's a resource, YouTube, basically, where we store it all, where you could sit down and watch all these conversations. You're privy to all these different conversations that are vulnerable, that are honest, that are courageous. They're real, they're authentic. And we're showing you both facing the same. We're showing the connection. And that's just this incredible resource that you have because it then informs. It's inevitable for you. Go, wow. Okay. I mean, I'll tell you, I watch on them, like, wow, okay. Am I gaslighting my partner? Like, this person's gaslighting their partner. I don't like that. Maybe I should be more aware of if I do that. Oh, I know that. You know, I noticed that he won't start speaking until his partner Looks him up and looks him in the eye, then he'll start speaking. Ooh, that's a great tool. So they know I'm with them. I'm going to copy that. Right? There's. We learn from modeling, we learn from examples. And if you look at all of our content, all our content's talking. There's very little exemp. Exemplification of listening. And when you see two people's faces, one talking, one listening, or both listening as they're trying to find the words, that's a great example of, hey, there's something here. And this is, this is a great way to do it. And I think that, you know, it's like the foods you eat, the media you ingest, it informs. It ultimately gets under your skin and affects the way you see the world and react to the world. And so for us, we see ourselves as a digital dose of humanity, corner of the Internet where there's digital doses of humanity.

So you mentioned humanity. So what, what, what's. What's your take on, on all things AI? And, and, well, I, I think, you.

Know, I think, look, it's inevitable. It's like asking if. Yeah, if there's a flood coming, and you're wondering if a flood is good or bad. It doesn't matter because the flood is coming. So the question isn't, is the flood good or bad? It's like when social media came out, is it good or bad? Is it. Regardless, we see, we know it doesn't have. But the question is, what are we doing with it? AI is coming, there's a race for it. We know it's going to shift so much. So the question is, we can't stop that flood. All we can do is direct it slightly. So the question is, how are we utilizing those tools to our benefit? And what does benefit mean? What is the benefit? And I think that the advantage that I see is that in AI, every, when one node in AI learns something, the whole. No, the whole system learns at the same time. So if one node learns a word in Japanese, then the whole system learns Japanese, and then all the nodes get that upgrade. We humans are not designed like that at all. We're the opposite. You know, you might learn Japanese. I'll never learn Japanese. And because we all have different perspectives and different learning rates and different opinions, we see things from different angles. And that's our advantage, because in the space between, in the space between the perceptions and, and opinions and what we see is where the magic can exist for opportunity. And so the question is how do you cultivate those differences between us, Harness those differences and different opinions to find the opportunities. And it comes down to our ability to communicate with each other, to find shared purpose or understanding or just empathy. Right. And I know empathy is such an overused word, but I think what that is, is, is like you said, it's like you're not listening to respond, you're listening to. You're. You're listening so that you can see what lands in you from what they've said. And so you're listening with your body and your being, not with your head. Basically, AI is if you said simple, it's like it's our brain, it's just a much better brain. But what AI will never have is our hearts. And the heart is where the magic's at. So the question is, how do we cultivate the heart? And. And like, something that comes up for me all the time is, look, I don't believe humanity is in us. I don't believe that humanity is in us. I believe humanity is what's between us. I feel humanity. Not when I'm alone in the cave meditating or something. I feel humanity when I post, post fight with my wife and we come together and understand and I have a stronger relationship with her or my team and I, after six months of launching a product, come together and we launch it, and it does well and meets the market needs, and we look at each other go, hey, that was great. I could not have done this without you. We compliment each other, we have different opinions and skill sets, but we did this together, and we gave birth to this thing that's offering value. Then it's like, okay, wait, humanity is what's between us. So how do we cultivate it?

Yeah. What's beautiful about that? When Arlene World. A lot of the roots go back to Toyota and Japanese culture. And there's a. A phrase we use in the Western version of Lean. We say respect for people. But my business partner, he speaks. He grew up in Japan, American guy, but he grew up in Japan. He speak Japanese fluently. He said that? Yes. It really poorly translated. American translation, respect for people. He said this Japanese. These terms are. It's respect for the humanness of people, you know, or humanity. But really, it's more than humanity. It's the humanness. So it's almost to your point of.

That's beautiful.

It's. It's between us. Yeah, it is. You know, I mean, it really is. Because you can think I have respect for people. We stand in the circle and Sing Kumbaya and all that? No, not necessarily. You know, sometimes, but not always.

Yeah, Look, I mean, I, I often ask myself this. It's like, I'm not sure I like people, you know, myself included. Sometimes I'm upset at myself, you know, but I love it. I love when people work together. I love when, when you help someone on the side of the road or someone stops on the side of the road and helps you.

What is it about people that you don't, that you don't like?

Including myself. I put myself in that list. Like, okay, now just for myself, sometimes I don't like when I'm short with my son. Yeah, he's a four year old. And why am I, why am I telling him the rush? Why am I being so aggressive? Topaz, what's, what's that about? You know, obviously I got like, you know, jealousy, envy comes up, competition, you know, there's. It's just the thoughts come up and I think that's what, that's a human, that's the animal ness out of us. That's part of the nature, part of us. We can't deny that. I don't think we should. But the humanity is the elevated portion and that exists between us. And there's an anchor in us that connects to the other anchor in you. And that's that thread of connection, what I call the. And the space. That's like the humanity. And we always feel it. You know, it was like before the phones came out. Do you remember when you used to get in that cab before Uber came out? And phones get in the Uber, you get in the chart, you get a taxi drive now in the 90s and the 80s, get in the car and you have this incredible conversation with the driver. I mean, still happens, but it's less so because everyone's on their phones.

Yeah.

And these are two random people who would never meet again, don't know each other, but you share a certain truth. There's some nugget that you came across a sharing. They shared a story that really touched you. You share a story, you have a conversation, you found common ground and understanding and life experience of two people who are so distant and never met each other. Never meet. And you're like, wow, that was beautiful. You know. Have you had those experiences?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And now we have it less because we have the phone that's reflecting our life experiences that we like lose into. And we don't have those. We don't as much as before, we don't have those opportunities as much as before. Yeah. Right. And lest we forget it, you know, unless we forget it. Mm.

Wow. I mean, I had no idea what this podcast was going to be about, dude. But this has been so, so good. I'm wondering maybe as we wrap things up, like, if you have some. I don't know, man. Like, I always say, well, final words of wisdom or whatever, but it's such a cliche. Like, do you have just some. Something from your heart that you want to share to the other humans listening right now?

Well, one thing that comes up and listen to your podcast, because I always prep for everyone I do, is I think your community. I want to acknowledge your community for the continuous striving to do better. And part of doing better means you have to lean into discomfort because you have to break the old. And you know that the old way doesn't always work. It doesn't. I mean, my dad, he says in business, he says you either growing or you're dying.

Yeah.

And I think growing means discomfort because you need to kind of, in some sense, kill the old.

Working out, man. You gotta lift weights and you break your muscle, you know.

Exactly.

To rebuild it stronger. Yeah.

And so I just want to commend your community. If they're listening to podcasts, listen to you. And the work you and your team do is. Is that. Is, like, kudos to you guys for, like, leaning into discomfort and not being scared of discomfort, because that's the path to growth, you know, as long as we harness it in a constructive manner.

Yeah.

So that's. That's really what.

Oh, I appreciate that.

Yeah.

So the video that I was watching, and we're gonna link everything up on the show notes down here, so nobody has to remember. But the channel on. Was this. The Skin Deep.

Is that.

Is that the.

The Skin Deep.

So your channel.

Yeah. So the Skin Deep is. Is. Let's say it's the. It's our experience design studio. The End is our flagship experience product that we have. We also have other products.

Is there a channel for that or is it.

No.

Everything on Skin.

Everything's in the Skin Deep. Yeah. So all social media is the Skin Deep. And if you want to buy our car, games are on Amazon or the skindeep.com/shop. And 12 Questions for Love is available everywhere and anywhere you get your books or audiobook or ebook.

All right. Yeah. And everybody just scroll down on the app. Whatever you're listening on, we're gonna have it all in the show. Notes. What about you? Like, social media? Anything like that? Are you on like LinkedIn.

I'm on LinkedIn. I have a website, topazadesis.com. okay, I'm on LinkedIn, but I basically direct everyone to if they want to get in touch, the best way is through the skindeep.com and contact and direct message on Instagram to the Skin Deep.

Okay, well, yeah, we'll, we'll get all the links put up in the, in the show notes and people can go connect accordingly. So. Hey man, this has been a lot of fun. I really appreciate it.

Oh, absolutely. Thank you.

All right, take care.

Take care.

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