GA 567 | Developing Human Skills with Thomas Gelmi

If you create an ideal condition for the people in your team or in your organization, they will thrive and they will flourish and bring out the best in them. The key is to understand what flower, what plant are you talking to? What does this person need to thrive?

Today I am excited to welcome Thomas Gelmy to the show. Now, Thomas has a really interesting background. He walks through it. In fact, he used to work in a place that. Well, I'll just leave it to you to listen something that I've. I don't. Pretty sure in all 500 and some episodes we've done on this podcast, no one has ever had this background. And you'll have to listen to hear what that is. So it was pretty fascinating, his background. But really today we get into this whole idea of sort of the human aspects of, of development and leadership and teamwork and that sort of thing and, and really digging into these, these so called human skills and really digging into like why the human aspect of the workplace and trying to understand the people that we're dealing with, why that's so, so critical. Of course we need to have technical skills and technical ability, but as we talk about, without a balance, I feel like it's going to be really difficult for any organization to succeed. And it really perfectly aligns with what we're all about within lean when we talk about respect for and we talk about continuous improvement in that balance between those two and that we've got to have harmony within all aspects of the organization. So really good stuff. And I think you're going to enjoy this one. I know I did. So show notes can be found over@gembapodcast.com. just look for episode five, six, seven. Again, gembapodcast.com, look for episode 567. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show. Thomas, welcome to the show. How are you?

Thank you very much. I'm great. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. Where are you calling in from?

I'm calling in from Switzerland in the center of Europe, near Zurich.

Beautiful. Beautiful. Gosh, you know, I've been all over Europe, but I don't know if I've actually been to Switzerland, believe it or not, which is definitely a bucket list item for me.

So I think, yeah, you should come. You should definitely come and visit. Just don't forget to bring your credit card. It comes with the price tag.

Oh, okay. Got it, got it. All right. I'll remember that.

It's an expensive place to live. Yeah. But high quality we have here. Yeah.

Good, good. All right, well, hey Thomas. As you know, we like to begin all of our episodes with our, our guests sharing a quote. So do you have one?

Oh, oh yeah, of course I have like one of my all time favorite quotes is actually by a fellow American. It's by Ralph Waldo Emerson who said, what we all need the most is someone who can bring out the best in us.

That's a good one. What's that mean to you?

To me, it means that we all need someone who can, who can encourage us, who can give us feedback, who can help us grow beyond maybe limitations that we see and just gives us some support along, along the path. Right. We can grow and develop through self reflection. Yes, that's possible. Up to a certain point. Up to a point where I reach my blind spots, for example, the areas that I cannot access myself. And that's where a coach, for example, can come in and give valuable support. And that's of course what I do. That's my purpose. Yeah.

Well, that kind of leads me right into my next question is for you to maybe tell us a little bit about your, about yourself, tell us about your background, what you're doing these days, and maybe even how you got into this line of work.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's a colorful zigzag biography that I have behind me. Let me start with what I do today and then tell you how I got there. So today I've been running my own business as an executive coach and leadership development expert. I work with leaders in organizations across industries, across cultures, and help them develop what I call human skills. They're often referred to as soft skills. Maybe we can talk about that as we go further into the conversation. So that's what I do. And I love my work because there's a lot of work. So I've been doing this for around about 20 years, a bit more than that. And before that I worked at Swissair, the national Swiss airline. And I was leading cabin crew for about seven years in total. I started off as a flight attendant in my mid-20s and learned a lot about what works in human interaction, what doesn't, what escalates, what de escalates. How do you resolve tension, conflict, difficulties without being able to call for external help or without being able to just, you know, escalate. You have to do it by maintaining or while maintaining the relationship. And then the airline grounded in 2001, shortly after 9 11, which forced me to open a new chapter. And then of course I did a lot of further education, coaching education and all what I need today to be successful in my work. And before that I worked with a circus for one and a half years. I toured around, lived in the trailer. And before that I earned my first money cutting other people's hair. So that's choreography.

You got it. Tell me more about the circus. What in the world? What did you do with the circus?

Actually, I applied for position as press spokesman. And given that it was a very small Swiss circus, I also did that when I then got the job. But mainly it was really, you know, hard labor, you know, building the tent. Oh, wow. Disassembling the tent, driving transports up to the mountains. And it did me good because I learned to work with my hands in the, in the mud.

So, yeah, super interesting background. Goodness gracious. I do have 500 some episodes. I don't know if I've ever had anybody worked in a circus. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. All right. It was funny. Well, so, so you, you, you mentioned this, this topic of human skills, I think you also maybe refer to as essential skills and some other things. So what, what start at the start. Like what is that? And what do you mean when you talk about human skills?

Okay, when I talk about human skills, I refer to what's very commonly known as soft skills. I personally don't like the term a lot because it is often used in a way that, you know, gives the impression that it's less important than the hard skills. Do you know, the, the technical skills that sub matter expertise and all the hard facts that are important in making a business successful, like key performance indicators and all the financial figures of an organization. And I hear people say sometimes, you know, yeah, we'll do a soft skills training towards the end of the year if we still have budget. So that's how it's often looked upon. And what are soft skills? Well, it's all the things that have to do with being in a good relation with yourself and others. Effective interpersonal, personal and interpersonal skills. So that's why I call them human skills or as you said, essential skills. So why, why do I call them essential skills? Well, because experience shows that they are often the game changer when it comes to, for example, employee engagement. When it comes to whether a person just does the bare minimum in their work so that they don't get into trouble. But that's it. Not an inch more than that. Or whether they do what needs to be done because they want to do it, because they're intrinsically motivated, they feel great about themselves, about the work they do, they feel that their contribution really counts. And Makes a difference. And of course they go an extra mile when they see it's necessary. Just because it's necessary logically and because they. Because they feel good, they focus on the customer. If you don't feel good in your work or in your organization, if you don't feel treated well, your focus is inside the organization and it's absorbed with all the things that dissatisfy you. If you feel well, automatically it will go to the customer. So that's why I call them essential skills. They often are the game changer. They make or break employee engagement and are a crucial factor to success of an organization. Yeah.

So when you were mentioning or kind of describing that, you said something that really piqued my interest. Something to the effect of talking about how you feel yourself. Like. Like I want. And it stuck out to me because you also talked about others, but then also how you feel about yourself.

Yeah.

I'm wondering if you could maybe explore that a little bit, because I think that maybe it's something it's easy to gloss over, but how we feel about ourselves, how others feel about us, and vice versa can be really powerful and really important. So I'm wondering if you could maybe explore that a little bit.

At the heart of my work is the assumption, which in my experience is a fact, that wherever people want to achieve something together, work together, effectively, achieve goals, whatever it may be, in leadership, in teamwork and customer interaction, even in families. Right. The ability to connect with others, build and maintain relationships, also under difficult conditions is a key. Right. I would call it interpersonal competence or interpersonal skills. Now the basis for that are personal skills is personal competence is to be in a good relationship with yourself and in balance and in tune with yourself and actually your own best friend, ideally. Right. So how are you treating yourself? What does it look like inside you all day long? And why is this important? Well, because it affects everything. Let's say a leader who's stressed out, who's not in a good balance, who's under pressure, if that person does not sense their own state and what state they're in, and therefore cannot regulate their emotional state, they are highly reactive in dealing with other people. All their reactions to others, all their statements, even how they just show up in a meeting, what energy they bring to a room depends on that and is flavored by that. And I'm sure all listeners have already experienced a situation where this one person enters the room and the whole energy in the room shifts in an instant. And it can go in both directions, of course. Right. It can massively improve or it can get worse. So if we look at many leadership development programs, they often focus on skills, leadership techniques, leadership methods, tool set, tool set, and then the skill set in order to be able to use those tools. In my opinion and in my experience, there's a third element that is way more important and that's mindset. Mindset and attitude. What you bring to a conversation in terms of mindset and attitude has way more effect on the quality of that interaction than any methods or techniques you're trying to apply. Because you see, if, if you go and learn methods and techniques and then you come back from the course and then you try to apply it, but you don't have the necessary attitude to really make it authentic and genuine, it won't work. People will notice, people will sense something's odd and then it won't work. And hence many go back to their habitual way of doing things before they went a program, right? But if you bring them the right mindset, the right attitude to a conversation, you won't even need methods and techniques. You're going to be effective already in connecting to the other person, build, building trust, right? Making them feel heard and all that comes with that. So mindset is the key. And to sum it up, the longer I am in this business of leadership development, I, I see and it gets confirmed time and again. Leadership development is actually personality development.

So I went, okay, I want to explore that a little bit personality, because I even think here again by academy, like of, you know, we're not a giant company but, you know, but within our leadership team we have even just me and my, my two business partners that started this company were wildly different, right? Wildly different personality wise. Like I am probably more sort of like energetic, outgoing sort of thing. And then one of my colleagues, one of my business partners is, is way smarter than I am, sort of like academically, but also maybe doesn't like to interact with people as much as I do, right? Like I can get energy from people. There's also times where I just need to unplug and I don't want people, I just want quiet, right? But, but I can, I can gather energy from a peop, from people, from a crowd, whereas one of my business partners doesn't enjoy that. Like they can do it and they force themselves to do it and they're good at it, but it's an effort. So we're all wired very differently, right? And that's just the way the great designer designed it, right? And so like, how do you how do you feel like we should best navigate these gifts or these talents or these personalities that are also wildly different, but yet we have the same mission, which is in our case, run Gemba Academy and make it successful?

Yeah. Yeah. And I like how you just described the diversity in your team, because diversity is another success factor, right? In teams and especially in leadership team. So your question brings me back to my Emerson quote, bring out the best in us. Now, what the best in us is may look different from one person to the other. And I often compare leadership as being to being a gardener. Your team, your organization, is like your garden. And you have a certain biodiversity in that garden, meaning you have different plants. In the end, every plant needs ideal conditions to thrive. And if you have good soil, enough sun, the right amount of water, shadow, just the right conditions, and then you don't need to do much. You don't need to pull. It won't grow faster. You don't need to kick it every now and then, you know, and shout at it and grow. It doesn't help. It won't change anything. It happens all by itself because all the potential is there for it to become the best plant, the best oak tree, the best rose bush, the best palm tree, that it can be very, very similar with human beings. If you create an ideal condition for the people in your team or in your organization, they will thrive and they will flourish and bring out the best in them. The key is to understand what flower, what plant are you talking to? What does this person need to thrive? It may look different for each member in your team. And to come back to your may look different to each member of the leadership team as well. Right. So the key is awareness. Another quote by Sir John Whitmore, who was a pioneer in coaching, who said, only what we're aware of, we can control. What we're not aware of often controls us. So awareness empowers me because if I'm aware, for example, of my traits as a person, of my personality traits, of my core competencies, of my most important qualities that I have as a person, I can work with them more intentionally, I can use them more intentionally. And I can also, you know, control maybe the dosage of how much I'm going to express of any given quality in any context. Right. Because there is this concept of strength and weaknesses. Right. Very popular. I personally don't like it so much because what does it depend on whether a quality you have as a person is considered a strength or a weakness. Right. Two things. One is context. So what are the requirements of this context, this situation, is my striving for perfection necessary and required. In this context, it's considered a strength. In a different context, where perfection is not needed and it may actually be hindering your success or achievement of goals, it's a weakness, but it's the same quality, the same thing. And then the second factor is to what extent do I express this quality? Perfection can get me far up to a certain point where there's a tipping point and then it's like showing the shadow side of it and it becomes hindering. Right. Too much perfection, it may really backfire. Right. If you overdo it. So now if I have the awareness that I was speaking about, if I have the awareness, I can be more intentional in how I express my personality, my competencies, my, my qualities and bring out the best in me by doing so.

Yeah, yeah. So are the people listening to this podcast, many of them are, are, you know, business leaders or leaders of people. Not everybody. But I'm wondering if you could maybe talk a little bit about what your opinion is on, like, what's the business case for developing these, these skills that we've been sort of exploring here so far on this conversation.

Like, okay, yeah, wow.

From a, you know, a business, they got to make money, right? Like if they don't make money, then they don't, they don't exist. So how does this, how does this all sort of tie back to making the company more valuable and helping, you know, helping the business?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. That's the, that's the core question. Right. The business case is that many organizations find themselves in very competitive markets nowadays. So products, services become more and more comparable and the more comparable they become, the more it, it ends up in a, in a fight about price. Right? So the one who gets offers the lowest price gets the deal. Right. Unless you make a difference with the people you have in your organization. So do your people just react when something goes wrong or just react in a very transactional way when a request comes in, but besides that, they don't really move if they don't have to A bit what I said earlier, right? Or do you have a workforce on board that goes extra miles, that is service minded, that wants to make a difference? This depends on the quality of leadership you have in your organization. And I'm not so sure what it looks like in the US but here in Europe, in most countries, organizations are having more and more difficulties to find and bind the right people. So there's a shortage in qualified people in the Job market. So it's about attraction, it's about employer branding. Right. Finding the right people and bringing them into the organization and then keeping them, binding them. This as well depends on the quality of collaboration and the quality of leadership. We have a situation where people just leave the company again, if they don't feel they're treated well, if they don't feel like they're treated in a respectful, appreciative way. This comes with the dilemma. The dilemma is that historically seen leadership, leadership has been seen as something that you just do on the side for a long, long time. You've been an individual contributor, you've been very successful. Now we're going to make you team leader. Just go ahead. From next month onwards, you're going to lead the team. Yeah. You're going to be fine. You got this. And then by the way, on top of your individual contribution that you've done so far, which in itself is often absurd, right. Because there's just no. The resources are not there anyway. So the person becomes a team leader and does what they think is necessary to lead, based maybe on their own experiences, but they just try to do the best, which often leads to overwhelmed leaders, which leads to frustrated teams that think, my boss doesn't do his or her job. And eventually, in the worst case, they leave the company because they don't feel like this is the place where they want to work. So that's a dilemma. In many cases, people are still promoted to leaders based on their success in the subject matter in the field they work. And the necessary skills or mindset and attitude and personality traits that are necessary in the new role as a leader are not systematically developed. That's the big, big dilemma. And that's in the end, the business case, right? Yeah. Like many or most other areas in the organization that are very highly professionalized, leadership also has to be done professionally and it has to be developed. People have to be given the skills, the tools, the mindset. They have to be given the development that's necessary to in order to be a successful leader. Which brings us back to the human skills, the essential skills. And that's not, by the way, reinventing the wheel. It's not something new. If anyone knows the book Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman of 1995. He already said it. He already said it. Right. Many managers are highly successful up to a point where they need their emotional intelligence, their emotional skills, self awareness, emotional self control, situational awareness, empathy, and the ability to influence other people's emotions, as in, you know, inspire them Calm them down, give them psychological safety so that they can thrive. Yeah.

Hey, what is your opinion on a leader's willingness? Maybe is the best word. Maybe willingness or ability to be vulnerable.

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe not everybody. You know, if you're the CEO, you don't need to be vulnerable with everybody, but maybe with core trusted colleagues or something like that.

Like what?

What is your opinion on that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe with your inner circle, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there are three main qualities of really effective leaders. One is the subject matter, expertise, the competence. One is authenticity, being genuine, and one is empathy. People sense that it's also about them. It's also you're also interested in them and their success. So authenticity includes vulnerability, the willingness and the ability and the readiness to admit that you don't know what to do right now and that you also have to think and find out and maybe discuss and find a solution together. That you don't have all the answers. Maybe even that you just made a mistake, that you made a wrong decision and now we have to find a way of dealing with it. That's vulnerability. And your question was, how do I see the willingness for that? Well, it's very variable from person to person. I see people who have developed this and are, and feel safe to show vulnerability because they have created a climate of psychological safety.

Yeah, yeah.

Everybody can say I made a mistake or I don't know what, or please help me, ask for help. And so it's also for them as leaders, possible to do that. Which is, by the way, referring to psychological safety, one of the key success factors for high performing teams, according to.

Project and all that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And Google did a worldwide project to find out what were the main drivers of high performance and success. Psychological safety is number one, right? Yeah, yeah, I believe it. So if you, if you imagine a leader who just made a mistake and, and, and made a wrong decision, whatever it may be, and then pretends that everything's under control, nothing happened, all is well, but the team can sense, can see, maybe knows that no, it's not true. And something's odd. What happens to credibility, Trust, acceptance? It will go down.

Yeah.

Because people will just feel like something's not just not right. Right. If that person made that mistake or you know, something happens and then admits to the team, hey guys, I just made mistake this and this happened. Can we sit together and look for a solution? What happens to trust, credibility and acceptance? It goes up. All three of them go up. Because people will see, aha. If something's not okay, he or she will tell me and be transparent and vulnerable and authentic. Hence I can trust. And still too many leaders see that as a weakness because they believe they. They got to know all the answers and they have to always be right and they have to be strong, etc. Etc. So the willingness is in some cases there for those who have seen the value in it. And for some, it's still a stretch. And the development area.

Yeah.

Wow.

Good stuff, man. This is a. I just love talking about just the human side of. Of leadership, because I don't think it's something that we talk about enough. You know, even within the lean world that most of our listeners are involved in, we. We talk a lot about. Respect for people is one of the key sort of pillars of. Of this house that we. We build. And we have these diagrams, you know, like, showing continuous improvement, and then respect for people, and these two pillars hold the house up. But sometimes I think it's just words, you know, and. And we don't always really get into the depth of, like, what does that really mean? You know, so. Yeah, so. Well, Thomas, this has been a great conversation. I'm wondering maybe we could wrap things up. If you have any sort of final words of wisdom, and then for sure, if you could maybe share how folks, if they wanted to connect with you personally, what would be the best way?

Of course, I'd love to. Well, yeah, to sum it up, I want to say that for many of the listeners, what we're talking about here may sound like common sense, right? They may think, yeah, but I mean, it's common sense. Of course. If somebody's telling you something, you should be listening. It's common sense. Right. Unfortunately, this common sense is often not so common in organizations. And why is that? Because there's so much pressure in the organizations. You said it earlier, it's about making money, Right. It's about being profitable. Of course, that is definitely true. How we get there, though, is the question. Right.

And whether you get there, not just how, but whether you get there. Like you said, if you have the best product in the world, but if everybody hates each other and you have a toxic environment, your product's not gonna get there.

Exactly. And you see, it's a bit like a company is a bit like a train. And it has two main functions in the leadership has two main functions. One is called locomotion, which means driving things forward. That's. It's called the locomotive that pulls the train driving things forward to the next train station, to the next destination. To the next goal. The other function of leadership is cohesion, which means keeping things together while you're driving things forward. Because if you just drive things forward like crazy, with lots of pressure and speed, you may risk that things fall apart, people jump off the train and. And you just don't reach the next.

Train falls off the tracks, you know?

Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. To sum it up, it's about also focusing on cohesion more, which includes all those human skills in order to drive things forward safely and ensure safe, healthy performance.

Love it.

And if you want to reach me, well, just Google my name. You'll end up finding my website, my LinkedIn profile, my TikTok profile, and any other profiles on social media. Just reach out to me. I'm happy to assist.

Got it. Yeah. And all the links will be in the show notes, so everybody go down and connect with Thomas. And hey, this has been a blast. I really enjoy you taking time to chat with us today.

Thank you so much. I had lots of pleasure.

All right, take care. Thanks for listening.

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