GA 569 | Reliability Kaizen with Adam Lawrence

Well, it's all about not making things too complicated. Right, so let's go to the basics. Right, so the equipment is designed to do certain things or your processes are designed to do certain things. Where we lose performance is when we over complicate.

Today I am excited to welcome Adam Lawrence back to the show. Now today, Adam and I dig into a really cool topic. It's something that, wow, I suppose we've probably touched on over the years in the podcast, but not a lot. And it's the whole idea of a reliability kaizen. And so it's something that Adam is. Is really good and he really specializes in these with his. The clients that he works with. And so we get started out of the gate talking about, so like, what is it? And how he got started doing these reliability kaizen events. And we cover some of the basics as you know, as a review for many of you, something like, like what is OEE and why should you care? And how does that relate to reliability? And. And really breaking that down a little bit. It's a topic. OEE is an interesting one. Some people love it, some people hate it, but to me, it's really, really critical for anybody working within a lean management system. And then towards the end, we really tie back into Adam's. One of his specialties is what he calls the wheel of sustainability. And so I asked him to sort of give a review of that. We've talked about that on previous episodes. But then he ties it back into the reliability kaizen and how the two sort of work. So really good stuff. Adam's a fantastic guy, full of wisdom and just. I really appreciate him. So show notes can be found over@gemba podcast.com this is episode 569 again, gembapodcast.com and look for episode 569. Okay, enough for me. Let's get to the show. Adam, welcome back to the show.

How are you? I'm doing well, Ron. Thanks for having me back.

Yeah, well, we were just kind of reminiscing a little bit. What number is this for you now? What episode? How many episodes?

Not that I'm counting, but this is episode 11 for me.

Okay, man. Yeah, I guess we'll have to get a T shirt or something made. I don't know how that works, but that'd be great. Well, it's always awesome to have you back on, man. I really appreciate you carving out time so well, you know the drill, Adam. We do like to begin with our guest sharing a quote. So what do you got?

So I don't know who to attribute this to, but I've been saying it recently to many of my Kaizen teams. Continuous improvement is like bowling. Anybody can do it. So the point of that is that we should never make these things difficult. And if you think about bowling, a 4 year old can bowl usually underhanded. An 84 year old can bowl usually underhanded. Somewhere in the middle there are people that can do it with some style and finesse and skill. And that's not me, of course. But again, continuous improvement should never scare people away. And bowling, I think is similar.

Very good.

Very good.

All right, well, hey, in case folks missed any of your previous episodes, which I'm sure regular listeners have heard you before, but just give everybody just a quick rundown on who is Adam and your background, your experience, and what you're up to these days.

All right, well, I am your Kaizen ninja, so I am all Kaizen all the time. So I picked my niche. I love helping any industries, but mostly manufacturing. And I like to think that I can help you grow profits through sustained process improvement. Very focused in Kaizen facilitation, as well as sustaining the gains that the teams work so hard to get. Been doing this about 35 or more years and probably four or five hundred Kaizen events around the world.

Wow. What's the. What's the. It's a difficult question to ask. What's the most interesting place you've been and run a Kaizen event in?

So I actually ran an event in Alabuga, Russia.

Wow.

And that was in. We were building a factory there when I was working for a large company, Armstrong World Industries. And so we had a value stream mapping event there. And what I remember, besides it being a wonderful welcoming area and being really told, was we had interpreters that were able to immediately clarify anything spoken in Russian and translate it right into my headset. So that was pretty amazing.

Wow. And when was that?

2016.

2016. All right, good stuff. All right, well, hey, Adam, today we're going to riff on a topic that sounds really cool and I don't think we've really touched on this too much over the years, the whole idea of a reliability Kaizen. So I think most people know what a kaizen is listening, but reliability Kaizen, so tell us, like what does that mean to you? And what's Adam's version of a reliability Kaizen?

Right. So in manufacturing facilities, we could always run better, I think, especially, you know, groups that have not really paid strict attention or lots of detailed attention to their people processes and equipment. So the idea is to get reduced jams and errors and inefficiencies in the overall process in a very short period of time. So some companies, you know, may call it tpm, some might call it center lining, some may call it leveling. What I'm trying to do is basically remove the waste with the help of the team immediately from how the equipment runs. So the way I see it is when I'm walking through somebody's facility, if I see people really having difficulty running their lines or the line, the product is jamming in the line. This is where I can help. So really came up with a number of approaches that I've whittled down to a very simple approach that is easily trainable and then transferable to the teams that I'm working with.

And I want to get into the steps and all that here in a little bit. But I'm curious, maybe before then we can talk a little bit about like. Like how long have you been doing this? Like, how. How did you get started with this kind of niche?

So I'd say in the mid-90s. I was visiting a plant in Macon, Georgia, within the company I was working for, and I just noticed people fighting their ceiling tile line. Things were jamming. It looked like they were highly stressed, it looked unsafe. Just all sorts of things that just didn't look right and just wanted to help them. I mean, people shouldn't have to fight their equipment as much as those folks were. So one of the biggest areas is when product jams. Right. Because all of a sudden, instead of balanced flow, things are going sideways, and now people are experience high levels of stress. And in trying to clear those jams and really putting themselves in harm's way. So it just seemed to me I could help. And then eventually by being on Gemba long enough with the groups, being able to find some similar themes as to why products were jamming and how we can stop that from happening. So I really developed this with ceiling tile industry squares and rectangles. Right. And what I've learned over the years as I went out on my own, that this translates to any shape of production, 3D, 2D, whatever you want to call it. So done it in many, many industries, and it really drives ownership, excitement, enthusiasm, and engagement for the groups that I get to help.

Now, is it safe to assume oee overall equipment effectiveness is something that you're looking at when you're focused in this area?

Yeah. So there's always a correlation, certainly, if you really think about this, this is a safety Process. Right. Because jams are such a high safety risk, but there's such a direct impact on overall equipment effectiveness, jams, you know, employee attitude, even, that, you know, it all seems to work well together as you simplify and reduce those issues. But we've had some amazing breakthroughs in performance. Now, some groups start at pretty low levels and others at higher levels, but there's always some way you can help, and it comes down to very basic details around the physics of the equipment.

Okay, so just in case people aren't familiar with oee, give us a quick crash course on what is it and why should, you know, organizations care?

Right. So oee. I mean, you know, you could go and look it up, but for me, it's like if the line ran with zero downtime at proper rate, with no scrap, that would be 100% OEE. And if the line doesn't run at all, even though it was planned to run, that would be zero percent. So it's kind of a nice way to create a baseline that you can measure against. Some people don't love the term OEE or like to use it, but, you know, I'll use whatever the client is that I'm helping. But many of them lately have been using oee, but it's just a very unbiased approach to looking at how a line or a factory is performing.

What is it that people don't love?

There seems to be a little bit of gamesmanship around how to measure it. So some groups like to try to game the number and take numbers out. I like to be a little more pure about it. Let's start at a low baseline. So I think a lot of people don't like having low numbers associated with their performance. Mm.

Okay. So, all right, so oee, and we want to make it better. Are there. Is there a process. Are there steps that you're sort of following as you. As you work with the team to do that?

Yes, absolutely. So what we do in the Kaizen event, first of all, is just expose the team to the whole idea of reliability and the simple principles around it. For example, equipment likes to be level, balanced, centered, square. Then we go out and we go look at it and find out it's far from balanced. Level, square. And when I say level, there are engineers that have argued with me over the years to say, hey, we brought in the equipment in this level, and then I measure it, and it's a quarter inch from side to side out of level. Doesn't sound like a lot, but what I've learned Is zero is the best. And then, you know, how close can we get to zero in a reasonable amount of time? Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. So once we get the team exposed to that, the goal is to help them see the issues. Just like we would say, let's see the waste, then bringing them back in the room, we're going to improve, we're going to let them prioritize some work. But there's always going to be the center lining team. So it's usually myself, a mechanic, maybe an operator, and possibly one more person. And what we're going to do is we're going to shut the entire line down. We're going to find a focus point, a zero point at the beginning of the line. So if I'm at an extruder, if you're familiar with what that is, or a die at the very beginning, after locking everything out, of course, we're going to pull a string from the very beginning all the way to the end. And string sounds totally old school, but it's about the simplest way I know to go above and below and through equipment all the way to the end. And then we can verify with lasers, of course. But basically we're going to find and mark that center point on the floor of the equipment of the line. Once we've done that, now we have a reference point for everything. The next thing we're going to do is see if there's any equipment or rollers or any forming apparatus that is out of level. And again, what I say is anything over zero is bad. How close can you get? So my rule of thumb is 0.015 degrees or less. Can't always get there. But zero is about impossible unless you have just the perfect shims for that kind of thing. So let's get the forming equipment correct. Now let's get the. Now let's get the height. So what I call the pass line. So what is the height the product sees? And if we can take more ups and downs out of it, then it's going to be more stable. So what we're trying to do is create stability. And as we create this product or move this product through the system or through the process after that, we're going to say, okay, where's the equipment in relation to the center line? Let's make it easy to set up by pinning or putting holes in the floor to set up or bolting things down. So a recent example was when we strung the line all the way down to the end, the packaging end. We found out that the packaging table is eight and a quarter inches off of center, but the product was not. Not even 12 inches wide. So they were fighting this product, fighting the equipment, all the way through the system. Once we centered everything and leveled everything, the line flowed. And you might ask yourself, well, why didn't they know it was centered? And there was no marks. There was no, you know, no standard that had been created prior to these events, but now there is, and now they totally understand why this is so critical to their equipment and their safety.

Now, what about. So when I hear the word reliability, I go back to my old surface mount technology days, you know, back in building cell phones. That was how I started my career.

Really.

And I remember vividly, you know, out. You know, you know, aligning all the machines. A little circuit board would roll down the. Down the conveyor belts and so forth. And you're right. I mean, just any little deviation up, down, sideways, you got problems. Right, so, okay, so you get the line centered, Everything's flowing nicely. But that doesn't necessarily mean the machines are reliable. Right, so. So talk a little bit more about that then. So, yeah, we got everything square and level and all the rest of it, but what. What's that got to do with reliability?

Right. Well, first of all, they are. They will perform more reliably because now they're seeing the product in a centered, square, level way. Okay, Right. So having equipment out of level and out of square sometimes jams hurt the equipment. So now we're redo. We're removing that. So that's the other part of the event. The team identifies particular issues that they're having with certain equipment, and then we deal with that. And that's a case by case basis. Yeah, but. But basically what we're teaching and what's neat is they take it from there and move it to the rest of their facility without me, actually. Which is quite nice for them and maybe not as nice for Adam, but it's so simple. Then. They can do it. But what they learn is those little details matter. And they also get the empowerment and the engagement of, hey, we made our line better. Yeah, Right. So one of the examples we had recently in another factory, one of the teams said, hey, the dust takeoff is not working well. We're clogging. Okay, okay, okay. So the team. So that was one of my sub teams. So we're center lining and squaring. But this one piece of equipment was having problems. And what they realized was the piping was improperly sized. So instead of a 10 inch PVC pipe. They went down to a 6 inch PVC pipe and they tied it in and took out a bunch of elbows. And like less than six hours later, they had solved that problem that they had been fighting for, I don't know, years, decades. How'd you figure it out? Trial and error.

Okay.

So there was not a lot of. There was envelope engineering going on, and a couple of folks just were that creative that they said it must be this. And so they did, and all of a sudden they were able to test it. And by golly. Now, was it the exact right sizing of the pipe? No, it was probably the size they had. So did they solve it 100%? Probably not. But they weren't clogging anymore. So this is. This is good. So better, right? Yeah. Make it better. And that's Kaizen, right? Just make it better.

Yep. What kind of. What kind of resistance have you seen teams face over the years when they're doing this type of work?

Right. So it sounds so simple that they say, how is that even possible? And the second bit of resistance is they're so used to fighting the equipment as is. Yeah. Right. So I'm going to give you a little. Can I give you a little story about that? So I'm in Mississippi. It's a building products industry client. I was allowed to say that. Right. So no one had ever touched their equipment or given them the opportunity to participate in this way. So usually by the second day, the evening of the second day, we start the line back up. This line was totally connected from the extruder end to the packaging end. So everything connected, everything relying on itself. We start the lineup and the line is flowing like no one had ever seen before. Or so they said. I'm going to tone this down because we have a PG 13 on. Okay. Just to let you know, big gentleman, nicest guy, most skeptical person. On day one, he comes up to me, grabs me by the shoulder and says, adam, you screwed up. You gave me hope. And I just looked at him and I said, I'm not sorry about that. Not a bit. Okay. So the skepticism that we're actually going to get to do something and do something that matters to us personally and that will help us, keep us safe, make it easier to run the line. We're so used to fighting it. We only know what we know. So this guy shows up that says, you know, let's just throw a string, drop a plumb bob, make some sharpie marks on the floor, check some heights, check some levels, put a few shims here and a few shims there, and they're like, that can't work. But it does. And that's why I want to share it with you, because it's something that we all can do.

Yeah.

And it really came about recently because I walked through a plant. I was helping a company with a strategic planning session. Okay. So I do a lot of that. But I said, I'd like to understand your industry a little bit. Can we go through one of your plants before I hear all the talk about this or that? Sure, let's do that. He was a little surprised. I wanted to do that, so of course I did. I'm a factory rat. So we're walking around and I see this line, and people are just fighting it like crazy. And I said, can I take a closer look? And he said, sure. What do you see? And I said, well, you're jamming like crazy. Oh, we jam all the time. I said, well, how would you like to knot? And he says, well, what do you mean? So I start showing him stuff, very simple stuff. I said, because after a while, you get. You get an eye for it, right? I can tell if a roller is a quarter inch at a level just from watching it go, right? Or maybe an eighth. So I'm showing him all these things. I said, well, look at this. This is out of level, and this is clearly not in line. And aren't you making a straight part? And isn't the line supposed to be straight? Well, yeah. So he started to get into it, and he pulled the plant manager over, and we're doing the same discussion. And, you know, they're asking me now, they're engaging all sorts of great questions. And then we get into the strategic planning session. All of a sudden, it becomes a strategy for their overall division. Right. Because I'm the facilitator, I'm not allowed to have any ideas. But apparently it helped. And it was going to be at all the lines across their division by the end of 2026. Now, they sent me to five of their factories at the end of 24, and it worked so well. They brought some of their CI folks and they learned the process. Now they're doing it, delivering it across every other lines in the plant. And now I've been told all the critical lines by the first quarter of 2025 and every line in the entire division by the end of 2025. So that's really great. I mean, so they're getting immediate value, immediate results. Some of these numbers are going to sound insane because I Was blown away. I basically committed to a 3 to 5% productivity jump. Oee jump. Right. I said easily we can get that. Okay. First site, OEE was in the low 50s before we started. It's now 75.

Wow.

Jams were. Which is the horrible safety risk were 50amonth. 50amonth. Okay. That doesn't sound bad. It's horrible. It's down to less than five in site two, they told me because everybody measures differently, even in the same company, which is kind of funny. Site two, they call it yield 88% is now 95%. And they've cut jams by more than 50%. And a site I did very recently, OEE went up by 10 percentage points and jams went from 55amonth to seven.

Wow.

So I mean, this is not insignificant. What's neat about it is that the people that work on those lines can immediately feel the difference.

Yeah.

They don't, you know, OEE numbers. Great. They can feel the difference. Their job's not as tiring or stressful.

Well, they can also focus on sort of like higher level things. Like it's not just keeping the line running. It's like, okay, yeah, the line's been running for the last few hours. How can we make it better? Right. But it's already running. So just running in and of itself. Okay, that's fantastic. But maybe there's other things.

Right? Yeah.

Yeah. The last question that I want to sort of explore is maybe, maybe kind of a two part question. So we've talked a lot over the years on the podcast about the wheel of sustainability. And I want so part A of this question is going to be for you to give it just the listeners in case they've not heard previous episodes, just to run down what is the wheel of sustainability? But then I want you to sort of tie it into this whole idea of this reliability Kaizen and how the.

Two sort of play together. Right. So wheel of sustainability. So it's fun to say I wrote the book on sustainability. Yeah, right. That's fun to say. I'm sure others have done that as well. So anyway, that's my system that I've developed to help changes stick. Right. Because we've talked in the past about people have fixed things and then it goes back to the old ways. So created a system. It has nine elements around it. I don't know if you want me to go into a conversation about that, but I can do it quickly, I think. Overview. All right. So it looks like a wagon wheel. Kind of think of an amish Wagon Wheel in the center's leadership commitments. So basically saying that whatever changes a team makes, I'm going to back it. I'm going to clear their calendars for the Kaizen event for the project. I'm going to make sure that I support them, that the organization supports them, whatever changes there are, and I will participate in them, as you'll hear in some of the elements. So the first element is notification, meaning, hey, we made a change. So don't tell me what the change is. Tell me why we made the change. Tell me why it matters. Tell me how it's going to help me. Usually you do that in front of a big group of people, so their retention is quite low. So then I have the next element called training and review. It means that one to one, I'm going to tell you about it, show you about it, and have you try it. Because in my view, there's no better way to retain it than if I actually try it. And it gives you a chance to ask questions. It gives me a chance to make sure you truly understand it. So then the next element is visible evidence, meaning that from many feet away, I can tell if the changes are being followed, if the standard is being adhered to. Because what I want to do is, if it is, I want to thank you for that. And if it's not, I want to coach you back to standard. Right. So for us, when it comes to these reliability events, it's a pin through the equipment into the floor to make sure the equipment is now squared and centered and properly located. If the pin's not in the hole, I can tell very quickly. We paint it really bright colors, you know, so sometimes my teams like to get very creative with that. The next element is called all tools available. It just means that I have everything I need to do my job in a safe, efficient manner. I don't have to look for anything. So it's the principles of 5s, right? I can find anything I need without looking. So every pin that's needed is connected to the equipment with a lanyard. So I can't lose the pin. It's in the hole or it's not in the hole, but it doesn't get lost, run over, misplaced, whatever. Okay. The next element is clear benefits. So just like the gentleman told me, I messed up and gave him hope. The benefit is personal to him. It helped me, which means that I'll probably do it when no one's watching.

Yeah.

Okay. So oftentimes I have my teams go out and talk to get Feedback and input about any changes they either are making or considering making. That way we get more of the organization to understand, give us feedback, give us ideas, get more buy in. The next one is layered audits. So we talk about layered audits all the time in lean and continuous improvement. But this is three to five minute type efforts with a person to make sure everything is correct is the standard and they have the help that they need to do their job properly. So the layer is the person doing the work checks their work with some frequency. The person that manages that person should check, but not as much frequency and go all the way to the CEO. Maybe he or she is doing that once a quarter, once a year. But basically we're reinforcing the message. And the message was created at the first notification so the message never has to change. Next one's accountability. So I'm a leader and I walk by and I see something's off standard. I make a choice. If it's that critical, as it should be, then I'm going to engage and I'm going to reinforce the message and reinforce the standards. So this is a choice that we make. We either could walk by and just allow it to occur and then it says being off standards. Okay. Or we engage and make sure. So don't delegate this. This is why leadership commitment is so critical. Lastly, it's the recognition. So I tell a lot of stories. Your listeners have heard a lot of my stories. But people seem to retain knowledge through storytelling more than looking at PowerPoints, more than, you know, writing stuff. I mean that's a great way to do it. But if I can't participate with you, at least maybe the story you can relate to. So if you put all those elements around the change, in my view that's the best system I know to sustain that change. Love it.

And we're going to link to all the previous episodes where we've covered this wheel, I think in every different direction you can imagine.

Right. Many, many times we've rolled around the.

Wheel, we've rolled around the Whee.

Yeah.

It is cool though, like how you're. How it applies to something like this Reliability Kaizen or Because really it can apply to anything I assume.

Right.

So.

Well, that's why I wrote the book on it, because I truly feel it can. But let me talk about how we've applied it or how my teams have applied it to the reliability Kaizens. Okay. Because lines didn't start off off center and out of level and out of balance. Right. They didn't start that way they just, over time they degrade, deteriorate people remove, replace, repair, et cetera. So we want to keep it the way that it's optimal. Right. So the challenge is, okay, what are the visuals? Right. How do we make sure that everybody knows the proper spot? Great. That's one way to do it. Right. Pins or color matching or, you know, lines. I'm not a big fan of match lines because that's hard to see from a distance. Right. So, so I challenge them to make it as big and bold as possible, make it easy to see. The tools are, don't skimp on anything that keeps it that way. Right. And some of the tools aren't physical tools. The preventative maintenance system. Right. So we've never leveled roles before we put them in. We never check it. Okay. So every six months or three months or hours of operation, you're going to verify the levelness of the rolls and the height of the equipment and various other things. Right. So that's, that's pretty simple. Okay. The audit. So what's the audit look like? So my, my operations team, usually the hourly technicians that are going to get the line back, they come up with 8 to 10 things they want to check on a daily basis. Right. We reduce the risk of it going back to the old ways. And I always have them, it's in their words. They make it visible they can easily do it. It takes less than three minutes to do it. But what we've done is we've reduced the risk by, into a 24 hour bucket. Now if they want to do it by shift, that's fine. I always say, hey, 24 hours ain't bad. You never looked at it for five years. Right. So that's pretty good. Okay. And then we create the weekly. Now the weekly audit typically IS industry standard 5s audit. Why? Because we want managers to come out and engage with their people and look at stuff and talk about stuff. So don't. None of these audits should be done individually. They should be done together. That's really my thought around those audits. The leadership commitment piece and the leadership accountability. That's a discussion I have before, during and after the events. We have what we call the check act process that after every kaizen, the team meets every couple of weeks just to verify everything's good. But the last piece really is that recognition. But I call it the area owner process. So what we've done, I've created it as a standard. It can get a little stressful towards the end of the week when somebody has to step up and become that. But this person becomes the point of contact. There's a picture of them, There's a way to contact them. There's an expectation statement. I've created it so it's like, hey, you can edit it any way you want, but it's a pretty simple one. Once I got it, kind of easy, nobody has edited it. It. The daily audit. The weekly audit and tracking is right there on paper, visible on the line, on a board, and they own that line. There's no additional pay given. So all those elements get placed before the end of the week. And sometimes Thursday afternoon is when finally somebody steps and says, I'm willing to be that first area owner. Being the first one's a little tough.

Now, is it like a supervisor or a line operator doesn't matter or it does matter.

So the person that lives on the line continuously becomes the area owner. So that's typically a line operator. So you say, hey, there's four shifts. How can we do that? Just one point of contact, Somebody from our team that's willing to try this. And then I have been coaching leadership the whole time to say this first person, you cannot leave them alone on an island. Tomorrow you need to show up. The next day you need to show up. You need to say words like, hey, how's it going? Show me how it's going. What issues are you having? Where can I help you? Don't ask yes or no questions. Yes or no questions get you nowhere. Ask show me questions. Hey, I hear somebody didn't leave the equipment in the right condition. Can you show me what they did and show me what you did about it? You know, that kind of thing because then you're really engaging the people.

Yeah, well, I like that, that show me because, yeah, it's so easy to ask a sort of yes or no question. And it's natural to do that. But yeah, it's difficult for follow up.

So.

Wow, good stuff, man. So I'm wondering maybe to wrap things up, if you, I don't know, have any sort of final words of wisdom, you know, sort of just centered around this whole idea of folks that are listening that thought, this sounds interesting to me, maybe they could make it work. Maybe their business is slightly different. But what are some final tips you can give?

Well, it's all about not making things too complicated. Right. So let's go to the basics. Right, so the equipment is designed to do certain things, or your processes are designed to do certain thing. Where we lose performance is when we overcomplicate so if you think of basic laws of physics, right. An object in motion will stay in the direction of motion unless it's acted upon. So being straight, if it was designed to be straight, or around a curve, if it's designed to do that, what's the simplest way to accomplish that? Work. Strip off all the excess stuff that's keeping you in the way of doing just that. And you can do that with virtual processes as well. Of course. So that's simple. The basics, get your people involved. We talk about this in probably every episode and I'm sure the 500 and 500,000 other episodes you've done, you know, get your people involved. Well, by golly, the people that fight that process every day are the core group, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And then make it simple enough that everybody can do it. So many times I get team members that want to automate. Can't we put it on a computer screen? Yeah, let's just try pencil and paper first. Yeah, let's just make it like bowling. Anybody can do it. You're not scaring anybody off. They feel like it's helping them not, you know, some person in IT land.

That's something they have to do.

Something they have to do, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Good stuff. Adam, if folks wanted to connect with you personally, what's the. What's the best way?

So what I'd like to suggest in this case is so you guys know my website. You're going to put that in the show notes. PI partners.com. there are two simple ways on the homepage to contact me. One would be to set up a 30 minute conversation. These are no obligation things. And just because somebody challenged me to, you should give something away on your website. I just finally figured it out. I had a lot of help to give a free chapter on leadership commitments from my book to kind of. I think that's the most important chapter. Right. So it's easy to say, hard to do. So you can click a button, it'll get your name and email address and it'll send you a free chapter. So if you're interested to know more, that's that. I'm not doing that to sell books. I just think the point is, why not just share something that somebody can use?

I love it. I love it. So PI dash partner, right?

Yep. Okay. You know, and I have LinkedIn pages and I have all these other things.

We'll get it all linked up here in the show notes. So everybody go to Nick with Adam.

That way too. So.

All right, well, I know you'll be on again down the road sometime. We'll see. I don't know. But as always, it's awesome having you on and I love your, your passion and, and just your, your genuine love for all things continuous improvement. It's, it's really infectious. So thank you.

Well, thank you, Ron. Thanks for having me on again.

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