GA 608 | Leading Without Authority with Ricky Banks

It's really about relationship. And one of the things I've always loved about continuous improvement is that you're helping people understand how they can do things, you know, better, faster, cheaper. Right, Yes, I get that. But also you're helping them develop a career path that's really going to sustain them moving forward.

Today I am very excited to welcome Ricky Banks to the show. Now, as you'll hear, Ricky is, actually works for Gemba Academy. He's one of our senior coaches and helps coach and mentor all of our sort of folks going through our various certification programs. And he'll tell you more about his background, but fantastic guy. And I gotta tell you, man, today's episode is super interesting. The topic, the official topic of the, of the episode was the whole idea of leading without authority. In other words, like, let's say you're in a role and you don't have any authority. Well, how do you lead and how can you lead? And so we spend quite a bit of time talking about that. But then as Ricky shares, he, he actually does.

He'S a minister as well on the side, not here at Gemba Academy, but just.

A different role that he does. And him and his wife actually do a prison ministry. And for whatever reason we just, I just, I don't know, man, I just felt called to go this direction and we kind of dove deep into that and talking about how all these things that we talk about with leadership and influence, how that worked in that environment. And then we just really got deep into, into that topic of, of the work that he does and, and you know, the different personalities that he comes across and how he interacts with that and how he responds to, you know, maybe difficult situations and so really, really interesting stuff. So I, I, I sure enjoyed this episode that the whole prison ministry stuff kind of starts later in the episode. So, so stick around for that because it's, it's fantastic. So while show notes can be found over@gembapodcast.com this is episode 608 again, gembapodcast.com and look for episode 608. Okay, enough from me. Let's get to the show.

Ricky, welcome to the show. How's it going?

Good. How are you, Ron?

I'm doing well. It's good to do it in studio interview here. We don't get to do these a lot, but it's, it's always fun.

So.

Well, Ricky, so we're going to get into who you are and all that kind of stuff. But as you know, right at the beginning of all of our episodes, we like to start with a quote. So what do you got?

Yeah, so one of my favorite is by Sir Isaac Newton. And it's if. If I've seen farther than others, it's because I've stood on the shoulders of giants and it really speaks into, you know, my life, my career, and how where I am today is standing on the shoulder of many, many giants.

Wow, I love that. That's awesome. That's great. All right, well, hey, tell us a little bit about yourself, Ricky. Tell us. Maybe start with your, like, your background and how you got involved in all this continuous improvement and leadership stuff and then what you're up to these days.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, Ricky Banks. I. I've got started in. In continuous improvement. Way back in 2010, I was working for a company called USG US Gypsum Company. And they rolled out the their black belt program. And I, prior to that, I had come the the floor and manufacturing work my way into middle management and then into quality and environmental. And next thing you know, I was being trained to be a black belt. And then later, of course, master black belt began teaching green belts and, and, you know, conducting projects, coaching belts, that type thing, and worked for a couple of different companies, interstate batteries here in the DFW area. And then, lo and behold, I wound up here on the team at Gimba Academy and couldn't be happier about where I am today.

Yeah, well, we love having you here. How long you been here now?

Since March. Okay.

All right.

Seven, eight months.

All right, sounds great. Sounds great.

So.

All right, well, so the topic of the day is really, I guess maybe we'll frame it as leading without authority. So to open up just that phrase, probably all heard it, but what's it mean to you to lead without authority?

Yeah, so to me, it's about influencing and inspiring others, you know, to work toward a common goal. And it's. You have to build trust to do that. Right. So there has to be a relationship there. It's through relationships. And I, you know, within continuous improvement within the workplace, it's really important because as you know, many of the people who do this continuous improvement leading teams sometimes don't have a positional authority. Yeah, right. And so you have to figure out how to influence and inspire. And, you know, I also liken it to, I think about marriage. Right. I've been married 39 years now with my wife. And, you know, you spend so much of your life struggling and figuring out how to.

Work with one another, and because you both have different roles, but you're both leaders within that home, right. And so you have to figure out.

In life how to step in and lead with authority. And it's, it's really, it's not from a positional standpoint, but it's from a, hey, you know, I'm accountable for you. I call it 200 accountability. So it's, I'm accountable for you, you're accountable for me. Let's, let's figure out how as a team, we can really do well together. And so, you know, putting that into, into the workforce and what we do in continuous improvement, it is really important for us to be able to influence others without that positional authority.

So I'm curious, if you were to think back, I don't know, say 10 years ago to today, would you say this ability to sort of lead without authority is more or less important, you know, today than it was 10 years ago? And why?

Yeah, I do believe, I think it's always been important. I think the, you know, with the focus on servant leadership today and also with the massive change that we're undergoing in our society and in the culture, it's definitely important today. And some of that is to do with the way businesses are organized and the way they're working today. Right. So I've been reading a book by Keith Farazi and it's titled exactly what we're talking about. It's Leading Without Authority. And, and in that he talked about working for Deloitte back in 2016 and they did a study of HR professionals and they actually talked about companies. The results from this study, they did that companies who had a workforce of 50,000 employees or greater had pretty much abandoned the old hierarchical way of leading. And because of the need to have autonomous teams and to work, you know, with flexibility, they've really adapted more of a.

Leading without authority. So understanding that everybody in the organization has the, the need or the responsibility to, to lead.

One of the most difficult things that I've, you know, experienced, you know, before, you know, I'm obviously in a leadership role now, but wasn't always was just have having. How do you go about sort of like being, building that trust and, and credibility when you don't have the big job title or, or what it might be. You know, I remember just being a, you know, I was just sort of a front line, continuous improvement, you know, professional and getting after it, trying to make things better. But nobody reported to me and you know, nobody necessarily. I mean, I wouldn't say they didn't respect me, but especially early on, you know, you got to sort of earn your, earn your stripes, right. So like, how do you go about that if you don't have that, you know, big job title or whatever it might be?

Yeah, that, that's great. And you and I come from the same background, so coming up through the ranks, as it were, from the shop floor on, to me it's all, everything's about relationship, right. Whether whether you're talking about your, you know, your home life or you're talking about work, it's all about relationship. And so to build that trust, first you have to develop those relationships and you.

Have vulnerability and humility in order to. For people to get close and come into your world. One of the things Keith talked about in there in his book is about serving and sharing. So being that servant leader and serving the others on your team while sharing, of course, about yourself, but also sharing the responsibility, sharing the accountability and allowing them to step up into the leadership role that, that they are designed for. And it's, it's interesting.

You have to understand that your power as a leader is, is not attached to your title role, but it's the impact you have on people and the impact you have on teams. And so once you understand that and you understand it, one of your primary roles is, is in helping others find that, that niche. Right. To find that, that place where they fit in to lead in that area. It, it gets easier. But to your point, it's not, it's. It's certainly not easy without, without the title. But you, you have to put yourself out there and be vulnerable. And you.

But we've also all experienced, I'm sure, of course, for you, not presently, not now, but we've had situations to where the. Somebody did have the title and, and we still didn't respect them.

Yeah, right.

And that's arguably even more damaging.

Right? Yeah. 100. Yeah. You think about the old command and control mindset, right? In. And I've had, I've learned from really good leaders and I've learned from some really bad leaders.

I learned more from the bad ones.

100. Absolutely. Of what not to do in relation to your leadership approach.

So think about, has there been anybody in your life that I don't know, it's just been a sort of a spectacular leader and maybe they were able to do it with or without authority.

Yeah, 100%. I've been blessed to be in a position where I've worked with some really good people. And of course, coming up through building the initiative at US Gypsum Company I was part of the front lines of that. One of my friends, his name is Phil Reali, tremendous leader and it was amazing to see how he could walk into a room. We're talking going into a new facility, he's never met anybody there before walk into a room. And he had such charisma and a way of approaching people and pulling them in and helping them feel heard that he was able by the end of the day everybody's ready to run through a wall for him. I mean it was just amaz amazing. And, and I watched Phil and of course learned a lot of really good things from him. Of course, you know, at some point we, he was part of the team as we started the corporate excellence group there at USG and he, he was instrumental in, in helping build that alongside of several others, including myself. But he, he was really impactful and still is to this day. Now of course today he has the title to go along with that, but that authority that, that, that he brought had no title attached to it. Right? He was just a guy who was trying to teach people how to get better and.

You know, continuously improve. So it was, he was really awesome. And I'm going to say this and the listeners and yourself may go, oh, he's going for points. But I'll say I want to talk about my wife. So, so she, I told you, we, we have a non profit ministry and she goes into jail and prison to work with the ladies who have made some wrong decisions, right? That round wound them up in, in some really dark places and ultimately behind bars. But those decisions at some point they're going to get out, right? And so she really is, is driven to, to help them figure out how to make better decisions and in, in, in life and not wind up back there. Right? So she has, I've watched her build a team of, of similarly minded women who really didn't think they had what it took to, to do that. And, and so she not only built a team but she also has, has helped a vast number of women throughout her time, whether it was in North Alabama where we lived for 20 years, or now here in the Dallas Fort Worth area. And just this, this last May while I was here, we actually had a, an event at a men's prison here in East Texas in which in a 12 hour period we fed and ministered to 850 inmates in a 12 hour period. There's still to this day the largest planned event that this, this prison has experienced and the, the, the, you know, the output from that has been Amazing. But the thing is, yeah, I helped along the way a little bit, but. But my wife, without title, without authority, pulled a team of 40 volunteers together, planned the whole thing, you know, developed what we were going to be doing, and then worked, you know, tirelessly with the prison coordinators and those type of things to, to really make that event successful. And it's just, it was really fun to be a part of, but it was more fun to watch as she's led.

I'm curious, and I didn't really intend to go this direction with this conversation, but I. I'm just genuinely curious.

How's it make you feel when, when you go into a prison and maybe it's not even a big group, it's one. One individual.

Yeah.

And I don't know, like, what's that like? Because I've never done it.

Yeah.

I've always, in my way of my heart has been moved to, to do that, but I've just never done it. So what's that like?

In the beginning, it's, it's. If I'm honest, it's intimidating. It's. It's scary in the beginning. It certainly is.

Yeah.

You know, when you walk in and you sign that says no hostages beyond this point.

But, but you get in there and what you find is those men and women are, are again, just people who have made some terrible mistakes and some terrible decisions in their life. Most of them, you know, had. Came from broken homes, had one or no parents, and they were raised by their grandparents, whatever. They came out of a place where, you know, everybody in their family were doing drugs or whatever the situation was, and they, they weren't afforded the same educational opportunities we were not. I'm not talking about, you know, college or anything like that. I'm just talking about basic. How do you, how do you live as a man? How do you, how do you, you know, conduct yourself, those type things? And man, when you, when you really get down on that level with them and begin to, to have conversations with them and see the impact that just you visiting them has had on them, it is, it's life changing.

I don't know if you're allowed to, but are you able to share. Obviously no names or anything like that, but like, any stories of, I don't know, maybe just some. Something that's really moved your heart or success story even?

Yeah, we've had several. We actually have two young men now that are coming in, attending the church that we go to, who we have ministered to in the prison, and completely life Changed. We had the mother of one of them visit and she was talking about.

Where were they at the beginning, the minute. First time you met him, where were they? Like, what was there?

They, of course, being in prison, they were. They were not in a good place. They, you know, understood, you know, what, what they had done and what put them there and that.

Were they repentant at the beginning, like sorry for what they did or at.

That point, by the time we met him, we hadn't understand. Some of men have probably been in. In there 10 years, five years, what have you. But. Yeah, absolutely.

But it's just, it's amazing to see what's going on there. One of them now has. There's a. There's a ministry that actually will help them start because it's so hard for them to find a job having a, you know, an offense on their record. There's a ministry that will actually work with them and help them become entrepreneurs. And they're. One of the, One of the guys that I was just talking about has started his own lawn business and he is. He's really doing well for himself.

Oh, that's fantastic. How's that make you feel?

It's. It's awesome. Yeah.

I'm wondering, like, when you think about the work we do here at Gemba Academy and obviously in your role, you're coaching people all the time, talk a little bit about how all these things that we've been talking about sort of apply even to coaching, you know, a professional. You got a person in here trying to get their master black belt with us and you're coaching them up, you know, so they're very different type of person. Right. Than say in a prison. But is there, I don't know, like, how do you going about it? Like, I'm sure you're. You got the same playbook, right? But maybe you apply it obviously differently.

Yeah, 100%. It's, you know, again, you go back to. It's really about relationship. And one of the things I've always loved about continuous improvement is that you're helping people understand how they can do things better, faster, cheaper. Right, Yes, I get that. But also you're helping them develop a career path that's really going to sustain them moving forward and helping them learn how to see things from a waste perspective and really go about even in their personal lives. So anytime I'm coaching, I generally try to tie what we're doing back to them. Personally, I try to get to know them and help them understand how these techniques and concepts that we teach apply to life regardless whether you're talking about career or not. And that's one of the things. In my introductions, in every class that I teach, I talk about my passion for people and how those same leadership concepts and the same concepts of continuous improvement help me in, in, you know, helping them get better and helping them figure out how to make better decisions. It's again, it's all, yes, it's, it's, it's, it, it's scientific thinking and it, in it. And there are structures and, and things that, that help keep, keep those in place. But ultimately it really is behaviors and thinking and it's helping them get to the point where they can understand that.

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. If somebody like we're interested in, you know, I don't know, getting involved in prison ministry, well, even if that's not ministry, like, just, you know, maybe they're not into that side of it. They're not pastors or not trained or anything like that, but they just want to go and be a friend to someone. Like, is that, is that a thing?

It is a thing. And there's, there's a couple of different ways to do that. There's what we call outside the walls, right. So after they get out, there are transitional homes and they're always working to, to, to try to, you know, work their way back into community. So there you can get involved in that way and then anyone can go in into prisons. I can tell you we, we have teams that go in at our church. So we have, it's done in a team format. We have four teams and they will share or, or alternate weekends. We have a leader for each weekend and it takes some work. So there is some, you know, as you can imagine with, you have to be background check and you have to go through.

A training with the Department of the Texas Department of Corrections. And then once, once trained and approved, then you, you can go into any prison in Texas that you, that you like. So we have a process by which we bring people on board and then we, we say, hey, you know, whenever you can, just let us know and then we'll get you on the team that, you know, whatever week you want to go in. But I know there are other organizations that go in and do things as well, but multiple ways to get involved there for sure.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Well, my gosh, this is a bit of wide ranging conversation. Been a lot of fun. Is there any sort of, like, I don't know, parting thoughts or things that you, you wanted to, to share with the listeners.

Yeah. I think just from a, you know, from a leading with authority standpoint, the, the key takeaways for this in my mind is that, you know, leadership as in life, it, it's all about relationships and the quicker we understand that, the better off we're going to be. Position doesn't define our power as a leader. It's the impact that defines our power as a leader. And so don't sit around and wait for a title to get into that, to figure out how you can add to the team through your skills and your character and just get involved. And that's really it. You got to build trust and credibility with folks by building relationships and then just, just you know, go be you.

I lied. I got one more question.

Okay.

It just came to my mind. Sorry.

What about likability? How important is it that that to be. I don't know how to even phrase the question. Likable. You know, is that important or, or not?

So I want to say yes. But I also want to say that, that it's obvious you're not going to like everybody. Right. And, but, but because you need people, you need their skill sets and you need their abilities on your team. You have to, you have to figure out how, how to have a relationship with those people and draw out of them what, what is needed to, to be successful. Right. Well.

And then another way I was going to frame the question was like, like for you, for example, you, you're walking into a prison or you're walking into wherever and you're going to talk to someone, how important is it that they like you or I don't mind being around you or. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Like I, I definitely think it's important it goes back to being vulnerable and humble.

Yeah.

And showing up in that. Because the only way people are going to, to really be drawn to you and allow. Or allow you into their sphere. Right. And share with you is if they can connect with you in some way. So you, you have to connect in one way or another. Again, it may not be to the depth that you would like, but you have to. I go back to, don't want to get too much into the Bible, but what is said there about, about you know, I make myself all things so that I can reach many. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. As a leader. Same same thing.

Well, yeah, I don't know if I've, I've studied a little bit, not a lot, but the whole nlp, neuro linguistic programming. I don't know if you looked into that at all. But it's, It's. It's really all about sort of how to sort of meet people where they are. So, like, I'm imagining walking into a prison and you're sitting down with some person and they're angry and they're rough and tough kind of thing. And NLP would have you sort of. And in a way, one of the things is like, kind of matching or pacing, like to not go in there and just be like a cupcake because they're going to just eat you up.

Right.

So sort of like meeting them where they are kind of thing. So I don't know if there's any.

Of that, you know. Yeah, for sure. And if. I know we're running out of time. But one example. So that event that we did where we. We fed and ministered to 850 men, young man walked in, we were having them. So we're in a cage out in the middle of this, out in the open. There's a basketball court that they have caged. Well, they would bring in 150, 100 men, and then they would close. They like. We were in there with one guard. And so there's this young man that walks up to me and we're just getting started. And our praise team members had gone to get water and take a break before they got started. And he walks up to me and he says, where's all your people going? Are they scared? And I looked at him and I see his name was Jake. He said, you know, like, from State Farm. I said, okay, I remember that, Jake. And I said. I said, no, Jake, we're not scared. I said, we're here because we want to love on y' all today, and we want to serve you today. And. And he said, well, I think, I think, I think y' all are scared. I said, no, no, we're. We're here. And you'll see, we're here to serve y' all today. And I didn't see him again until as. As that group was leaving. I said, hey, Jake from State Farm. And he looked at me and he said. I told him, I said, I'll see you later. Well, lo and behold, about a month later, we were. We were having an event on one of the Sunday nights. And Ian, Jake walks and he's sitting in the back. And I don't know that he recognizes me, but from the front of the room, I called him out and I said, hey, Jake. Anyway, long story short, after the session, he stops me in the hallway and he says, is, man, you told me that, that y' all cared about us and that, that you were here for us, to serve us. And he said that day I didn't believe it. He said, but I've been coming to the, to the church service every week since. And he said, I, I believe you. Yeah, so it was beautiful. It was, it was really awesome. But yeah, it's about meeting them where they are and showing up again. I think, I think the whole, the whole thing is about the posture, right? If, if your posture is from a sharing and serving standpoint, I'm showing up humbly to, to, to provide a place for them to feel safe and step up and use their, their skills and talents. Whether we're talking about a team, you know, in a, in a manufacturing environment or we're talking about.

It's no different.

It's no different.

Yeah, you've got to show up with humility and, and a good posture and, and ready to go. Because there's going to be Jake's, you know, that we, we meet out there on continuous improvement, you know, so. No, that's beautiful, man. Oh, so good. Hey, so Ricky, if folks wanted to connect with you personally, what's the best way?

Yeah, here, here at Gimba Academy, you can reach me.

My contact information is on the website or LinkedIn. Long LinkedIn. And then, then my wife and I have a, as I said, have a website. It's MinistryManna Life.

M A N N A. M A.

N N A. Yeah, okay. Ministrymana Life.

Wonderful man. Well, we'll get everything linked up in the show notes, so everybody go connect with Ricky and tell him thanks for coming on. And now I guess go get back at work man, why don't you?

Absolutely.

I appreciate you man.

Thank you.

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