GA 616 | Teaching Lean with Noah Waech

I didn't realize how enjoyable it was to teach others until I started doing it. And I think just seeing other people succeed and knowing that you get to be a part of it has been so valuable to me today.

I am excited to welcome Noah Wake to the show. Now, Noah, as you'll hear, has a lot of experience in sort of in the manufacturing world and got a lot of Lean and Six Sigma and continued improvement experience. And so we really just sort of talk about his journey with Lean. We get into kind of how he. How he began and how he. How he first, you know, drank the Kool Aid, so to speak. Kind of. It's always fun to hear people's sort of origin stories. And then we. We kind of just get into some nuts and bolts of. Of his journey, and we start about talking about, like, sometimes some successful endeavors that he's had with continuous improvement, and we even talk about some times that he struggled along the way and. And the things that he's learned about that. And then sort of at the end, we kind of get into, like, some fun, lean geek stuff, like your favorite tool and what you like most about continuous improvement. So this was a lot of fun to record. I think you're going to like it. Show notes can be found over@gembapodcast.com this is episode 616. So 616 gembapodcast.com, look for episode 616. Okay, enough for me. Let's get to the show. Noah, welcome to the show. How's it going?

Good. How are you doing, Ron? Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I'm well, I'm well. All right. Where are you calling in from?

I'm here in Johnson Creek, Wisconsin, just outside of Milwaukee.

Okay. Badgers or.

Yep, badgers. I went to school at Milwaukee School of Engineering, so I like the Bucks and the brewers and, you know, obviously the Packers. Okay.

Okay.

Big fan of Wisconsin sports.

All right. Good stuff. Well, I grew up. I'm in Texas now, but I actually grew up in Ohio, so you might get an idea of where my allegiance. I'm all Buckeyes, and my kids are all been born and raised in Texas, but they're all Buckeyes, So for sure, it's easy to be a Buckeye fan. Lately, my kids have grown up and kind of a, you know, a good era. I was like, well, you don't know pain. Like, I've known pain over the years. We've all experienced pain, but for sure.

So I wasn't going to share that, but my. So. So my dad and my older brothers are all Michigan fans, so.

Yeah.

In spite of them, I grew up as a Buckeye fan because dad and my brothers. Yeah, so you wanted to spike them.

Or what, you know?

Yeah. Yep, yep, exactly. So it. It's worked out pretty well for me, you know, across my. My. My lifetime. So I. I actually got to go to the. The Badgers vs Ohio State games, so.

Nice.

Nice one to be at.

That's great. Yeah. Everybody always talks about, like, last year, you know, the Ohio State won the national championship. And I'm like, yeah. Still lost in Michigan, though, right? I mean, honestly, I'd rather beat them and lose a national championship game. It's insane as that sou any college football. All right, well, hey, no, you know, we like to begin all of our episodes with our guests sharing a quote. So what do you got?

Yeah, so one of the quotes that I, you know, really try to pay attention to is the most dangerous kind of waste is the waste we do not recognize by Shigeo Shingo. And I think that one is just super, you know, important to me because, you know, I've spent my entire career figuring out how to identify waste, and not everyone has that experience. So what can I do to help others see waste? Because what I found is that most people, if they identify something as waste, they're going to naturally work towards trying to eliminate it, but when they don't see it as being wasteful, then there's nothing that's prompting them to work towards eliminating it. So I think that's probably the most influential quote on my career.

Yeah, it's good. And I even wonder, though, for folks that are practicing and have been at it like you for. For a long time, if it's still possible to. Which we know it is, you know, to dismiss it. Right.

Totally.

You know what I'm saying? And so I feel. You feel like that quote could also go to the veteran, you know, sort of lean thinker, and that none of us are immune from standing in a circle, really, and just deeply observing, you know, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. We definitely, you know, over time, we can get very complacent with things. And so it's always good to kind of shift around and look at things from. From different perspectives.

Yeah, yeah. Like that with the movie where there's dead people everywhere, there's, like, there's waste everywhere, you know.

Right.

Drive down the road and you'll start seeing it. Right.

So definitely.

All right, well, hey, Noah, tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us about your background and how you first got involved in all this continuous improvement stuff.

Yeah. So this is always something that I really like to ask people, especially interns and co ops when I'm interviewing them is like, how did you get into industrial engineering? And what I found is that most people will have some sort of story from early on in their life. And for me, it started with one of the project lead the way courses in middle school where we were given a customer demand to make a chair. And so one of the other students in the class got to write what their odd demands were for this chair. And I just remember that project vividly, thinking about what the customer wanted. And then we got to use all sorts of different materials to go ahead and build this. And then we got to present to the class. And that kind of kicked off my interest in STEM and engineering and whatnot. And then, you know, in high school I stopped taking foreign language and instead, you know, took as many manufacturing classes. Learned how to weld and you know, machine and, you know, everything along that line. And then in college, I didn't really know that industrial engineering was a course or, you know, a field. And so I started in mechanical engineering. My first week on campus, I learned about industrial engineering. Industrial engineering. And I realized, whoa, this is like what I've been doing my entire life. I didn't realize that that could be a full time job. And so I switched right away and have been super blessed with all of the opportunities that I've had. So yeah, that's kind of where my journey began, through school and whatnot. And then in terms of work, I worked in medical manufacturing and now I work in construction equipment. So lots of good opportunities to make improvements. I love manufacturing and you know, the smell of cutting oil and you know, weld spatter and it, it is always exciting to be out on the floor.

Yeah. So I understand you got a story about the time that you were, I don't know, maybe you were being asked to sort of help teach people about lean and, and I don't know. Well, I assume maybe there's things that you learn from that. Can you tell us about that experience?

For sure, yeah. So here I am, a brand new engineer, just graduated college. I'm at my first job and I'm tasked with improving the output on some of our packaging lines. And so go out there, observe with the operators. I'm three or four months out of college and the process that the operators are following, you know, major batch flow production. And so I go and I find, you know, the Gemba Academy. Ron Pereira, you Know, video single piece flow where you know, your stuff in the envelopes. And I go, this. And so the product that we had was, was very similar to a piece of paper. It was, it was a large flat sheet thermoplastic. And so it was very similar process where we're taking that sheet and we're packaging it in cardboard. But I was thinking to myself, this is perfect. We're going to watch this video and the operators are going to be like, wow, this relates exactly to the packaging process that we're following. And so I'm super excited that everything's going to go perfect. We watch the video and I think at the end you go, you challenge the listeners to, you know, how does this relate to your own process? And we watch the video and the operators go, this, there's no way that this relates to. And so, you know, I like go home that night. Like, I can't believe that, that like I clearly saw the, you know, how this video related to what we were doing. And so the next day, you know, I'm working with operators, I go, you know what, let's, let's just run an experiment. You know, I'm going to pack using this one piece flow method and then we'll have someone else package in the traditional batch and let's just do it for an hour and let's see who can do it faster. And so the first hour passed by and I had packaged more boxes. So then they were like, well, I don't really think that that's sustainable. Can you do it for a second hour? So then I stayed out there for a second hour and then next thing you know, we had worked the whole shift and we did the math and figured out who, who, you know, could, who, who made more packages. And they, you know, by the end of the day they were like, you know what, I see your point here. This is much faster. And so it was, it was a good, a very good experience early on in my career for, you know, hey, we can, you know, teach in a classroom or we can, you know, talk through different theories and whatnot. But at the end of the day going out on the floor and you know, put to practice together is ultimately what's, what's, what's going to get people on board and you know, thinking the same way that I'm thinking. So I thought you might like that story.

So yeah, it can be a lot of fun working with those hands on simulation. So. All right, well, next question I have for you is I'm wondering, you know, you've been at it for a little while, and all of us who teach people, there's certain things that, I don't know, we, we like a lot, and there's maybe some things that we don't like so much to teach. And I'm wondering maybe we'll start positive, like, what are some things that, that you enjoy most about teaching others about all this Lean and Six Sigma stuff?

Yeah. So, you know, for me, I've. I've always really enjoyed doing the projects myself and whatnot. And it wasn't until more recently that I've gotten to start teaching others how to do all of this stuff. And so I, I didn't realize how enjoyable it was to teach others until I started doing it. And I think just seeing other people succeed and knowing that, you know, you get to be a part of it has been so valuable to me. Like, I think that that is very fulfilling. It's very good. You feel like you're doing good. The first time that I ever had a yellow belt candidate complete a project and thank me for the support that I provided them and the direction that I gave them, I felt like I wasn't just doing a project to make the company better. I was also changing someone else's life, which is. Makes me feel very good. The other thing, too, that I would mention is one of the reasons that, you know, continuous improvement, or Lean Six Sigma fails is oftentimes, you know, a Lean practitioner will go in and make an improvement and then, you know, they'll move on to the next issue. And they, they, they never involved, you know, the people that own that process. And so it struggles to sustain and so being able to teach others. I feel very confident that, you know, when I leave to move on to a different process, those people are then capable of sustaining and, you know, maintaining that gain. So I think that that's super important as well.

Well, yeah, I mean, obviously, when you're building your project, teams involve them, right? Like, have them be part of the actual team. That way they've got skin in the game, right? Totally making the buy in. It's their ideas, you know, and they helped come up with it.

So.

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. I'm wondering, like, maybe on the flip side, or are there, I don't know, things that. Can you think of an example of? I don't know, how something didn't go the way that you wanted it to and what you learned from that?

Yeah, I think one of the biggest challenges is, you know, there's, there's a lot of People that are, you know, very engaged and want to learn more. But then you also deal with people that, you know, maybe don't, aren't, aren't as interested or not as focused on it as you. And so that, that, that can always be a challenge and can be tough sometimes. But you know, what I found is some of the most rewarding people to work with are the people that might be, you know, the toughest on you. And there's almost like a sense of pride or like a badge of pride, you know, working with someone who, you know, maybe when you originally start working with them, other people might warn you and be like, hey, you know, don't work with that person because they're, they're, you know, tough to work with or last time I did a project with them, you know, they try to sabotage it or things like that and they're a negative Nelly and you know, slowly working with them to make their day to day better has, you know, it's very challenging and in the time, you know, it can be very tough. But you know, when you crack them and you get them on your side and working together, I think that that is, is super rewarding and beneficial. So I know sometimes it's really tough, but, you know, pushing through and breaking the code on that is valuable.

Yeah, I've told this story before on the podcast. Some longtime listeners are probably sick of hearing it, but I call them cave people. Citizens against virtually. Yeah, and I remember, I'll just never forget this story. And again, I've, I've told this a number of times over the years, but there was a time where I was working in a, this is prior to Gambia. I was just back in my corporate days and, and I was working in this area and there was a, there was a cave person. I mean this, this dude was not down with being part of. He was like, it was like a Kaizen event or something like that. And he was sort of like volun told, you know, that he was gonna have to be on the team or all the rest of it. And just, you could tell, man did not want and wasn't feeling it and all the rest of it. And so my style was never to sort of like pick on people or you know, force them into anything or so I just kind of, in the beginning I almost, I wouldn't say ignored him, but you know, I was just like not bothered by his scowl on his face or anything like that. I didn't let it sort of impact me or anything. And, and slowly as the day went on I would just once in a while kind of just throw something over to him, like an idea question, or what do you think about that? You know, or whatever. And. And slowly they started kind of coming into the team, and by the end it was fully engaged. And. And by the end of the event, he was. It was all. It was all great and did the report out and all the rest of it, and he was part of it. And I'll never forget, he came up to me at the end. It was just me and him and the guy, like, literally had tears welling up in his eyes. And he said, you know, no one's ever listened to me. Like, this team listened to me this week. And I was like, wow, you know, and so I didn't go into it, like, well, yeah, you were super negative, you know, but, you know, but I feel like there's just. You just never know, right? What kind of, sort of like, because some. There's some people who do lean to people, right, and that they're bad, right? Like, that's doing more damage to continuous improvement than just sort of like ignoring people, right? Like, so you don't want to ever do. Do this to people, but, you know, do it with people and gently pull them forward. And, and like you said, you get those folks who don't seem to be on board once you do sort of them over to her side, so to speak. Man, they're the best, you know, because like, that, that gentleman, like, he had deep, deep knowledge on how this process worked. He'd been there for a long time. He'd seen everything, you know, and without that knowledge, our team would just wouldn't have been able to succeed like we did.

So definitely there was. There was one time I was out, you know, doing a time study, and I was. I was doing some observations. And yeah, there was. There was an employee who had been there a long time. And I'm observing, and I think he knew that some changes were going to come to that. That area of the assembly line. And so, you know, he. He kind of calls me out, he goes, you an engineer? And I was like, yep, I am. I don't think we've met. You know, I'm Noah. And he goes, I doubt that you've ever turned a wrench in your life. And I was like, well, you know, I have. I was like, you know what? Can I work with you at this workstation? And he goes, I, you know, I don't think you can get your hands dirty. I don't think you'll know how to do it, but sure, let's give it a try. So I spent the rest of the day with him working on the line. And, you know, he goes, hey, you should come back tomorrow and do the station in front of us. He goes, I've never had an engineer take me up on that offer to work with me. And so I end up working the station, the two stations in front of that and the station after that. And, you know, as we prepared to make these changes, he was one of my biggest, like, change supporters. And, you know, I had other people, you know, asking how, like, normally he's against every change that we do. How did you get him to, you know, support all of the changes that you've made? And it was, it was. It was really just, you know, getting the opportunity to learn from him and to, you know, talk to him and really just, you know, being. Being different, you know, in terms of, you know, being humble enough to go, you know what I am, I am going to work on this process. And I think I got anti seize all over my quarter zip and I had to throw it out and whatnot. But it was completely worth it because the rest of the process, the rest of the project was, Was. Was totally worth that.

So, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's this, this. There's so much like, I don't know, human behavioral analysis that needs to be done with continuous improvement. And. And I would say it's a weakness really, in our movement that so many people don't work to better, I don't know, interact with people, right? Like, it's not even about the. The tools are easy. We got videos on any tool you ever need. Don't worry about the tools, but focus your energy on interacting with people and don't be a jerk, you know, and understand personality types, right, Like Myers Briggs and things like that. I feel like those are some of the most important things for, you know, continuous improvement practitioners to deeply understand the human behavior behind all this stuff. Because 5s7 ways value stream mapping, Quick change Over Easy. We got a video. Follow those steps. You'll get it. But what I can't necessarily teach you always on a video is you know, how not to be a jerk and how not people to run away when they see you coming around the corner. Right? Because it doesn't matter how good you are at value stream mapping, if people can't stand you, then you're gonna have problems, right?

So, sure, yeah.

And you mean our education system? I think, unfortunately, you know, like, a lot of times, you know, in your engineering schools, I mean, how much time did they spend? I mean, I'm sure they did some. I'm not trying to knock your school, but because I had the same thing. Right. It's like not enough time on the human behavioral side, but a lot of time on how to run a stopwatch and you know, you know, so yeah, that's the hard part of continuous improvement, the people side.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

So maybe to sort of kind of help wrap things up, I'm wondering is, do you have like, you know, an aspect of continuous improvement or Lean or Six Sigma or whatever that's sort of like your jam, like your favorite, like when you're working in this part of it or this tool or some aspect of it that you just, you just really feel in it.

Yeah, yeah. So I think for me, like my favorite tool is value stream mapping and we've, we've done. This is something that I've done across a lot of the North American facilities is, you know, facilitate and lead the value Stream mapping workshop. And one of the big things that are really one of the issues that I find is that oftentimes people are very good at fixing problems within their own department and the value stream mapping tool and the workshop more importantly is getting all of these different departments together and talking about the same problems. Because a lot of the most important problems that the company is facing is cross functional. There's multiple groups that are involved. And so when we get everyone into the workshop and it's always very important, I always start the workshop off with the ground rules like, you know, we're going to be very easy on the people and very hard on the process. And so we're creating a blame free environment. And when everyone in the workshop is following those ground rules, we have very productive discussions and conversations. You know, people finally having an aha moment going, oh, what I'm doing here, you know, has an effect on this other department that I didn't even know about. And I've just found that many times over those are very productive conversations and very eye opening for everybody involved. So I think for me that tool has been so beneficial to the company. So I think that's definitely the most important to me.

And I know it didn't invent a tool, but hat tip to our friend Mike Rother and Jeff Leiker for learning to see. I think that was the first, one of the first sort of Lean books that I really devoured back in the day, you know, the Blue Workbook, Learning to see how to value Stream app. And again, they didn't invent it, but I feel like they popularized it in the. In the west. For sure.

Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Yeah. And then you go on to the red book and then the blue book and you get all the books, right? You get all the green book.

Yep.

Yeah.

My, my wife doesn't like that. They're all next to the fireplace. These, this is my jam, you know, this is, this is what I live and breathe.

That's next level, man. I don't know if I've ever heard of that. My wife would not let me hit my value stream books by fire. You got a great wife.

Yeah, yeah, she's awesome.

Awesome. All right. Well, hey, man, this has been a lot of fun, Noah. Hey, do you have any sort of like final words of wisdom or final things that you want to leave with the folks listening?

Yeah, I guess. You know, something that one of our safety managers always talks about is people work to the level of expectation that is expected out of them. And I think that that's so important. You know, always have high expectations and continually try to raise the bar. And when we do that, great, great things can come. So I think that, you know, that that's always stuck with me.

Nice. I like it. Hey, if people wanted to connect with you, what's the best way?

Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, so. Noah, wake W A E C H. Yeah, feel, feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn.

Great, great. And we'll link everything up in the show notes. This is going to be, let's see, episode 6166 16. So go, go connect with Noah and thank him for coming on to the show. But hey, man, this has been a lot of fun and you stay warm up there.

Sounds good. Yeah. Thank you very much for.

All right, you take care. Thanks for listening. Whether you've been on the continuous improvement journey for many years, or perhaps you're just getting started, Gemba Academy is here to support you. And while we're best known for our more than 1500 lean and 6 Sigma teaching and virtual tour videos, we also have a team of experienced Lean and Six Sigma practitioners available for one on one coaching, as well as a variety of Lean and Six Sigma certification options. To learn more and to schedule a demo, head on over to gembaacademy.com.