GA 632 | Performance Unleashed with Chris Libutti

me having a bad day is going to be different than somebody else having a bad day. I had to learn that, right? You know, especially having employees, you know, a single mom, that kid doesn't feel well and, you know, she's cleaning up throw up and the dog got out or, you know what I mean? Like, and they're just like, I'm having the worst day ever. And it's like, there's no one shooting at you. There's no bombs blowing up anywhere. You're not in a— like, what do you mean you're having a bad day? Do you understand? You know, so it really took me a long time to understand the perspective of other people.

Today I am excited to welcome Chris Laboudy to the show. Now, um, so Chris, as you'll hear, he's written a book, um, and, uh, the book has got a really cool, cool name, the 7R² Framework. Now, for those in the Six Sigma world don't know, we're not talking about R² statistics and all that kind of stuff, but the 7R² Framework. So it The 7 R's, there's 7 R's and they're doubled up. For example, rigorous research is the first one. And so what we do is we definitely get into the book and we go through all of the R's, if you will, the 7 different R-squared groupings there and talk about what each one of them is and what it means. But at the beginning of the episode, we sort of— really wasn't the plan, but I just— I'm fascinated by folks that were in special operations, which Chris was. And so I just sort of pride, you know, you never know, like what kind of questions you can ask folks and what they can answer and all that, you know, with top security and all that sort of thing. But anyhow, we had some really cool conversation just like on his time in special operations and heard a little about some of his deployments and some of the things that they did and that sort of thing. So, but then as you'll hear, he's a super disciplined guy. And so it all sort of kind of comes together. You can see just like lives his life the way that he served. And, and, um, and I really think that's what's going to come through in this book. So really fun conversation, I enjoyed it. Um, so show notes can be found over at gembapodcast.com. This is episode 632. Again, gembapodcast.com and look for episode 632. Okay, enough from me, let's get to the show. Chris, welcome to the show. How's it going?

I'm doing well, Ron. Thank you for having me.

All right. Yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure. All right. Well, so, Chris, I know you know how we like to begin all of our episodes. It's with sharing a quote. So what do you got?

I'm actually going to share one that I have kind of tattooed on my arm here. It's a famous quote by Marcus Aurelius. The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way. That's kind of how I look at life and live life and attack life. Reality is constraint, it's constraint dense, right? Friction, uncertainty, opposition, failure. I mean, that's just our operating environment, right? And perception precedes action. So, how you interpret an obstacle, I mean, just determines whether or not it degrades you or strengthens you. And your agency obviously is internal, right? You control yourself. You don't control your outside events. So I'm not saying obstacles are good. Don't get me wrong. No, no, no. Saying that you properly process them so they can become an input for progress. That's really—

Yeah, man.

I believe that's how I interpret the quote.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

I mean, the Stoics and Marcus Aurelius, man, they had it figured out, man, a long time ago.

They sure did. You know, and he fought through and lived through a very difficult time and, you know, considered one of the last great emperors. So, yeah, I figure maybe you can learn something from the guy.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. All right. Well, hey, Chris, tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us about your background and maybe how you got into your line of work that you're in now.

Sure. Yeah. I went into the military out of high school. So I went into the Army, enlisted, went into the Special Operations Command, serving in the Ranger Regiment. And from there, I just wanted to challenge myself and just grow. I didn't feel like I had found my way or knew which way I was going, knew which direction to go. I kind of needed some, some guidance in that way. So I decided to volunteer for some, some of the harshest training just to kind of push me to my limits and see kind of what I was made of and capable of. And from there, I went into college, got out of the military after my contract was fulfilled and went to college and studied a couple of different things, studied engineering, studied psychology. Studied business. I had this, this, this, I'm very curious. So I just, I, something jumps out at me, and I want to learn more about it. And it kind of led me down this path of just, just learning more and more and more. And, you know, graduated after my master's degree and decided to go out and work for, uh, you know, companies and stuff like that, and really didn't work out the way that, that I held myself, uh, to certain values and to certain beliefs and to certain ways of operating and levels of performance. I, I realize not everybody's the same, right? Um, so I, uh, decided to start my own company, um, had some companies with some some partners and, uh, so some, some ownership, some co-ownership. Uh, I liked growing companies. I liked scaling companies. I liked, I like that challenge of getting it to the, to the apex or the sweet spot. And then it was almost like I wanted to have it, um, I don't know, I just, I really enjoyed that part. So it was almost like it's time to move on to the next challenge. I didn't want to stay And so it was either, you know, sell or, um, or, or find some kind of merger or joint venture acquisition or something like that. Um, so I kind of did that for a number of years, uh, in, in private industry. And then from there, um, sold my last company and went into academia. So, so while I was in that process of entrepreneurship, it was trying to figure out what's the next step after entrepreneurship because it's a dogfight and it just goes and goes and goes and it doesn't stop or you're not successful. You know, there's really no comfortable spot. So I knew that that wouldn't obviously last a lifetime. It'll just burn you out. So what was next? So I did my doctoral program in the midst of that. And, um, in 2022 decided to go into more writing, um, research, teaching, trying to, you know, pass on knowledge to, to the younger generation. I, I felt like when I graduated college, I didn't really have a lot of professors that could tell me what I was really going to expect out in the world. It was kind of just like, here's what the book says, here's what theory says, here's what this person said, you know, 10, 20 years ago. But it's changing so fast. And so I thought, why not have somebody there that can tell you kind of, this is the way it— this is the way it really is. You know, the book says this and that's great and you can take these pieces away. But in reality, you're going to run into these other obstacles as well. And in doing so, we— my wife and I also released our first book on Saturday.

So yeah, we'll get into the book for sure. But I actually want to circle back and I don't know, I got a lot of friends. My brother-in-law, in fact, was military. And I know there's like some things you can say and some things you can't say and all that. But I mean, obviously you were special operations, special forces, right? Is that— Is that correct?

It's, um, so the way the Army is set up is they have a USASOC, which is the US Army Special Operations Command. And within that you have the Ranger Regiment, Special Forces, you have obviously your, um, Tier 1 units, you have Delta Force and, and SOG and all these other, you know, clandestine forces. So it's a, it's a, it all falls under, um, the Special Operations Command.

So what were— are you able to say like what you did and all that, or is it kind of like, you know?

Yeah, no, I ended up, um, so I served in the, in the regiment, so I was in the Ranger Regiment.

Wow. Okay. What was— I mean, any, any— I'm sure there's stories to tell there, or, uh, what was that like?

So most of, uh, most of my time when I was in— so I went into the military, um, you know, late '90s, early 2000. And, and all of that was kind of a setup for a lot of the stuff you see today, believe it or not. You know, the, the military has been strategizing, I mean, things 20, 30 years in advance. They're not just strategizing for next year. So I spent the majority of my time in the Balkans. So, um, there's a big civil war, uh, with the breakup of, um, you know, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia and all that. So you now have Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, Albania, you know, all those countries there in the Balkans. So I spent probably, I don't know, 80%, 75% of my career in the Balkans between Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Albania. Um, a lot of the, the training and, and what we would call like retrans and stuff we would do was, was with our, our partners like in Hungary and Germany and, and stuff like that, and Italy. Um, but yeah, the most of the, um, most of the missions we performed were, were all Balkan related. I don't know if you remember Milosevic. Um, back in the day, all the ethnic cleansing.

Yeah, yeah.

And, uh, all that stuff. So, so that was kind of our mission, was to prevent kind of the— a, prevent communism from coming in and, and taking over the area, and also to try to get some kind of, um, some kind of civil rest, right? Where they have some kind of organized government, they have laws, they have a police force, they have implementation forces, stuff stuff like that. So, um, it started with, with Clinton and it, and it ended with Bush. And it kind of just, uh, it kind of was to prevent bad from getting really bad and hopefully putting some kind of government and law and order in place to prevent and give them an economy of some sort to prevent you know, Russia or Middle Eastern countries from taking over. Because when you're poor and you don't have money, you need to get money and you need to get resources. And a lot of the stuff that they were using was old USSR stuff. So the fear was that that whole area would then be kind of engulfed by Russia.

Got it. What are you most proud of when you think back to your time, your time serving?

I would say it's fighting for those that can't fight for themselves. You know, like, that's why I believe we do what we do. It's not for the glory. It's not for the medals. It's not for the book writing. It's not for the ego and the bragging. It's, it's to— it's A, to fight for what's right and, and what we believe to be true, and also to fight for those that can't fight for themselves.

Yeah.

And, and it's, you know, I— well, while I don't believe the U.S. should be the world's police force, I do believe the U.S. as a massive force should try to allow countries that aren't able to get to a point where they're sustainable to help them become sustainable. Yeah, because then it just leads to more, you know, more terrorism in a sense, right? Because, because they, they got— they have to survive somehow.

So, all right, so you mentioned, um, sort of in your opening there that you, uh, that after the Army you went into college. I'm curious, like, what was that like? What was that transition like? It's a very different, you know, environment going from special operations into now you're a freshman in college. Like, what was that like?

Oh boy, I, um, I don't think I've ever, you know, and I have kids and everything, I don't ever think I've been so aggravated in my life. Okay, I was uncomfortable. It was, um, I learned for the first time that you don't have to do something you're responsible for doing. I, I didn't know that was an option. I, I learned that as a freshman in college, that people actually didn't do what they were asked to do. It's like, I didn't know that was even an option. Um, they, they go around in their, in their pajamas. They don't comb their hair. They, they don't shower. They, they're late. They— it was, it was just, it didn't make sense. I felt like I was in, uh, I felt like I was in The Twilight Zone, or, or it just, it was a big, it was a big, um adjustment also because, but believe it or not, when you're in the military and you're deployed so much, you kind of lose touch with what is up and new and hip in, in, in the US, right? So it's like, it was almost like I was in a time capsule, right? So I'm expecting everything to kind of be the same. And then it's like, oh, that music's not cool. And those pants aren't cool. And that style is not cool. And that brand's not cool. Um, so there was a lot of, um, you know, I didn't know what movies were— people were watching, you know. So it was, it was a hard adjustment. It really was. I— it wasn't because I thought I was better than anyone else. I just, I— that was when I realized I was different. Like, yeah, like really built different.

Were you able to sort of like assimilate and find your footing or was it just a, a struggle all the way through?

Man, I don't think I found my footing probably till like, till like senior year.

Wow.

Because we, we would have to work in groups, right? So you, so you would do a group project and if I didn't agree with what so-and-so turned in as their part of the assignment, I would just, I would just redo it. I was just, this is trash. I can't believe you think this is acceptable. I'm just gonna redo it. And I could have been completely wrong. I could have done it right, but I just was so in. And then it was almost like, if the project's due at, you know, 10 o'clock on Thursday, why is everybody submitting their stuff at 9:40 on Thursday? You know, it's like we have 20 minutes to assemble this and turn it in. Like, why is everybody waiting till the last second? So it was, I think it just took me a really long time to just, you know, other, everybody has their stuff, right? Like me having a bad day is gonna be different than somebody else having a bad day. I had to learn that, right? You know, especially having employees, you know, a single mom that, you know, kid doesn't feel well and, you know, she's cleaning up throw up and the dog got out, or, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, and they're just like, oh, I'm having the worst day ever. And it's like, there's no one shooting at you, there's no bombs blowing up anywhere, you're not in a— like, what do you mean you're having a bad day? Do you understand? You know, so it really took me a long time to understand the perspective of other people. You know, a bad day to them feels the same as a bad day to me with different, you know, different occurrences, right? So I don't, I think it took me, it took me at least 3 or 4 years to realize that. So it was probably my senior year of college before I was really able to understand not everybody's— not everybody has the same life experience and looks at things the same way I do. Right, right.

Well, so your book, I want to get into it a little bit here. So maybe the second half of the podcast here. And so I understand from just kind of researching your book a little bit that you've got this— do you call it like 7R²? Is that how you're—

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So, so, so let's talk about the 7R² framework. Like what, what's that all about?

So it's kind of interesting. So I, so I'm in my second marriage, right? So I was married once before and my wife and I, think alike but think different, but it's complementary in the way that we think different. So, I was sitting and I told her I wanted to write a book and she said she wanted to write a book too. So, we were kind of independently writing our own books and she read my book script. I don't know, I wouldn't call it a book. She read my brain Yeah. And they were only one word. So there were 7 words and I said, I want to make this my framework. And she was like, well, you got to add more, you know, like pop to it or you got to add more character to it or you got to— you can't just have a word. You can't just say research. You can't just say resilience. You know, you can't just say reinvention. Like everybody does that. It has to be different. So she added the second word to making it 7R². So then it became rigorous research and it became radical resilience and it became relentless reinvention. And, you know, with her being in industry for her, you know, whole life, I mean, she went to college while she was working. You know, so she has all this industry experience and me having this academic experience of writing a dissertation. I was trying to put a dissertation into a book and she's like, people aren't going to read that. You got to tell stories, right? She loves Star Wars and she loves, you know, sci-fi, you know, she loves The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and all the, you know, Harry Potter, right? So So, she's like, "You got to add character." So, we ended up writing it together. And so, we decided that the rigorous research, which is evidence over assumption, right? A lot of people move on assumption and they won't stop for a minute and pause. And, radical resilience is strength built through challenge. You're, you're not going to be, you know, everybody, everybody sees the end result and that's what they want, right? They see Elon Musk and SpaceX, but what they don't realize is what it took for him to get there, right? So there's this, there's this strength that gets built through whatever you want to call it, the struggle, suffering, challenge, obstacles, whatever it might be. And then you have relentless reinvention. There has to be these moments in time where you reinvent, and it's evolution without ego. You have to be able to say, you know, the iPod isn't the thing that's going to take us into the future. It's the iPhone, it's the iPad, it's the MacBook, it's the Apple Watch, it's the Apple TV, right? It's the reinvention. It's not just like zero, like, like Kodak, right? Everybody's going to want a picture. People aren't going to want to look at pictures on a screen. They're going to want to hold it in their hand. And they weren't willing to reinvent, and Kodak suffered for that. So you have to be able to go through that. And then the revolutionary reasoning is making better decisions under pressure, right? You have to I believe people reveal their true character under pressure. When you are acting under pressure, that's who you really are. So you have to have this moment beforehand where you really are, you know, true with yourself, right? Like Aristotle says, you know, we are what we repeatedly do. Excellence is then an act— or not an act, but a habit, right? Um, so you kind of have to, you know, live in, in that mindset. Uh, refined recalibration is just intentional adjustments, right? Continuing to adjust, whether it's adjusting, upskilling your staff, adjusting with technology, adjusting with, you know, with all these supply chain issues that we're having, right? It's these continuous adjustments that have to be made as a company because of the impact that's happening from the, from the outside force. And then you have to have results, right? Results-driven rituals, right? There has to be habits that carry your performance, right? If we're really good at— I don't know— if we're really good at making water bottles, why are we all of a sudden going to go into making iPhones, right? Like, that doesn't make any sense. So it's like, what results-driven rituals and habits that we have that we can carry performance. So while we have to reinvent ourselves and make the iPhone better and better and better, but there's rituals and there's habits that we have as people, but as our teams and as our company have that continue us to strive and be excellent and set us apart from our competitors. Right? We want to compare ourselves to ourselves. Yesterday, not to other companies, not to other people. And then the last one is ruthless relevance. It's, it's real-world impact that endures. I mean, look at COVID, right? Look at how many companies were destroyed by COVID. Nobody knew it was coming. Nobody was prepared for it. So it's, it's having that ruthless relevance and real-world impact that endures. So, so those are the set— that's the 7R² framework. It comes from, I don't know, call it 30 years of, of world life— well, you call it 60, right? 30 each. You know, it comes from, yeah, from 60 years of, of putting our blood, sweat, and tears into things and having failures and having successes, you know. I mean, I can count, you know, I can count so many times that— are we gonna make payroll this week, or are we gonna— is the business gonna stay open, is— are we gonna get eaten up by a competitor, you know. It's, it's, um, It's a struggle, it's a battle, but that's the journey, right? That's what makes it exciting. That's what makes it fun. That's what creates greatness in my opinion. Michael Jordan didn't wake up one day the greatest basketball player in the world. He got cut from his high school team. Yeah. And that turned him into the best.

I want to come back if you don't mind. I want to dig in on the results-driven rituals. I'm super interested in that one. Like, I'm really, like, personally, just me as a man, as a person, like, I am big into sort of routine. Like, I wake up and, like, within our continuous improvement, that stuff that our company teaches, we teach something called Lean. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but so there's, we call it standard work. Like, companies like Toyota, you know, have very, very specific things that they're going to do and they do it the same way. So, like, my morning routine, I get up and I just, unconsciously just follow the script. Like, I just, I don't even have to think, you know. And, and really a lot of my life is like that, even at work. And just the things that I'm doing are very sort of, I don't know, sometimes I wonder if they're overly regimented and, and, you know, and it sort of hones me in sometimes because I'm just so used to doing what I do. But I want you to talk a little bit more about about your thoughts on just this, this whole thing with, with, I don't know, just routine in general and that sort of thing.

So I'm a firm believer in discipline, right? And, and it's called self-discipline for a reason, right? We have to create the, the discipline ourselves, right? So, so I went into the military and sometimes people are like, oh, well, you're disciplined because you were in the military. Now the military provides a discipline-driven environment, but if you choose not to be disciplined, you're not going to survive in that environment, right? And there's people that get out of the military and decide not to be disciplined anymore, right? So it has to come from within, like you said, right? It has to be habitual. If I'm going to be disciplined and I'm going to live a lifestyle, or I'm going to perform at a certain level, there are certain things that I have to do in order to accomplish that. And if they're not habitual, then it's not sustainable, right? If I want to be an Olympic athlete, I can't just say, well, I'll train on Mondays, but I really don't want to train on Tuesdays. And then maybe, you know what I mean? It's like, it has to be a habit. It has to be a life. Decision, right? If, if, um, you know, a lot of things you can do habitually with the environment you're in, right? If you have to be to work every day at 8 o'clock, then, then that's a habit you just have to abide by if you want to keep your job, right? So that's technically not like self-discipline or self-imposed. Now, if you go out and you look for a job that has that it's very process-driven, it's very regimented in the way that they perform and do things, then, then that's the right place for you. If you want to go to a company that is very relaxed and everyone's writing on the walls and they come in when they want and they leave when they want, you're not going to be able to function at your highest level. So then you won't have self-gratification. You're not doing the company any justice and you're not doing yourself any justice. Right? Right. So, so the habit has to align with, with yourself, right? And your self-discipline and your desired outcome. Yeah. I mean, anybody can show up and be average, right? And if that's what you want to do, that's fine, right? That's your choice. But if you want to show up and be great and not do the work that it requires to be great, then you can't get mad at the fact that you're not great, right? You have to make a change, right? I think Jocko Willink talks about extreme ownership, right? You have to own your decisions, right or wrong, good or bad. You have to own them, and then you have to consciously make a decision to to change them.

Yeah.

So it's those habits, right? And we, you know, they say we're the, you know, we're kind of like the product of the people we keep close to us. So if you surround yourself with people like you, it elevates you. If you surround yourself with the people that are not like you, it either frustrates you or brings you to a different spot that you don't want to be in, right? And then you're living in kind of like a mental internal chaos, right? Yeah.

What was it? How do they say? We are what we repeatedly do. Excellent. Then does that happen?

That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard, right? I mean, discipline in a sense is a, is, is a form of suffering. I mean, if you really think about it, you know, it's easy to sit around and eat cake and donuts and drink soda and eat fast food, you know, I mean, that's easy, right? It's hard to get up and exercise and eat healthy. And, you know, it's a form of suffering. Yeah. Yeah.

Me and some good buddies of mine sort of do life together and we'll go through some periods where some doing some pretty intense, whatever it might be, various spiritual and physical stuff all work together. And we sort of, our tagline is suffer well.

That's right.

Yeah, you know, you got to be able to suffer well.

So you do. Yeah, you gotta— what did the drill sergeant say? You got to make the hurt feel good, right? Yeah. I'm gonna go work out, man.

I already worked out today. I'm gonna go work out again.

Yeah.

Oh man, good stuff. Well, hey Chris, this has been a lot of fun. I'm wondering, do you have any sort of like final words of wisdom or parting thoughts that you want to leave folks with?

Oh boy. Words of wisdom. I don't know. I guess, you know, like I tell my, I tell my students now, and I used to, there was a lot of like young engineers and stuff that I would try to mentor and a lot of young project managers and stuff. You know, you can, you can see the fire inside them and then you can see that they have that spark, you know, and And I would just tell him, you know, like, like, just don't negotiate with yourself, you know, like you, you, you should know what you should be doing. And, and if you're not doing it, then you're making the choice, right? So the gap isn't really knowledge. The gap is, is honesty and discipline. You know, it's, it's looking in the mirror, being honest with yourself. And then having the discipline to make that change. Because, I mean, in reality, the moment you start lying to yourself, you distort reality. You know, if you keep telling yourself— like, I could sit and spit words of affirmation into a mirror all day. You're awesome. You're the best at this and you're the best at that. I mean, maybe it makes me feel better, but it's not reality, right? And, and when your perception of reality is off, every decision you make, it just gets worse, right? So you take ownership in things, not necessarily because they're your fault, but because it's, it's just about being responsible. And, and that's really, in my opinion, like, that's where your power is, right? So you stop negotiating with yourself and you, and you realize That by taking responsibility and taking ownership and being honest with, like, that's your power. And then focus on what you can control, right? We were talking about Marcus Aurelius at the beginning, um, you know, your, your effort, your standards, your consistency, you know. Don't focus on the outcomes, you know. Bill Walsh wrote a great book, you know, The Score— what is it— The Score Fixes Itself, I think, you know. Focus on each play, focus on each act, you know, and, and then the outcome happens, right?

Trust the process, another way of saying trust the process.

Yeah, you know, and, and I think what really, you know, the, the best thing you can do is to, is to do something you don't want to do even when you don't do it. When I wake up and I don't want to work out and I go work out, it could be the worst workout of like the year, but for some reason it feels great because I did it and I didn't want to do it. Yeah. You know, 'cause I mean, at the end of the day, you don't want to, you don't want to be explaining to yourself why you didn't do something. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

Yeah. Good stuff. Up, man.

I don't know if those are words of wisdom or not, man.

That's great. That's fantastic.

That's the Chris Labute way.

Yeah, I love it, man. So name of the book again?

Uh, Performance Unleashed. It's on Amazon as of, uh, as of Saturday. So grab a copy, read it. Hopefully you love it. And if you don't love it, that was the part my wife wrote.

All right, man. Well, hey, Chris, uh, I, I really enjoyed to conversation. It's been a lot of fun having you on. Um, I, uh, maybe we'll have you on back down the road and do part 2 or something.

I would love to, Ron. I really appreciate it. Thank you for your time, and, and I enjoyed the conversation. All right.

Okay. All right, take care, Chris.

You as well. See you soon.

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