https://www.listennotes.com/e/fc86e3bd6f0e4b008dee3ddf37c975f6

Ninjas, they get in and they get out. They make a big impact, but they're sort of silent in the background when they're doing it. And that is what I want for my teams. I want my teams to really believe in themselves, share that impact. I facilitate. They get all the ownership of their accomplishments and they have that transformation that they believe in. And I'm on to the next place.

Today I am excited to welcome Kirsten Gallagher and Adam Lawrence to the show and we'll. This is a super fun episode. So Adam's been on a number of times, so regular listeners probably recognize his name, but Kirsten and Adam both kind of go by this moniker of a Kaizen ninja. They both do. And so when they stumbled across each other, they had to connect with one another and kind of get each other's story. But we thought it would be fun to have them both on to sort of talk about their journeys and what they're up to with continuous improvement. And so that's really what we do. We sort of dive into both of their. Their stories and then also their approach. They're both do a lot of Kaizen event facilitation, both of them do. And so we sort of talked about how they both go about it and what if there's any differences to their approach and. And kind of how they keep things fun and light and. And really just kind of dive into their individual style. So it was a really good episode. I enjoyed it. I think you will too. Show notes can be found over@gembapodcast.com look for episode 586. Again, gimbapodcast.com look for episode five hundred and eighty six. Okay, enough for me. Let's get to the show. Kirsten and Adam, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Great, thank you.

Great. Ron, thanks for having me on again.

All right. All right. Well, yeah, Adam, we were just talking that you've been on. What is this, like your 28th time now or something like that? I don't know.

We're approaching infinity. No, no, no. This is the. This is the dozen. I think this is number 12.

Wow, man, we gotta get like a T shirt or something for you. But I don't know, man. We keep thinking about it, but Saturday.

Night Live, they get the host that's been on five times, they get a whole jacket, so. Oh, what are we waiting for? It's time.

That's a good point. Good point. All right, well, so, Kirsten, I don't know if you've listened to the show or not, but we do like to get things going right out of the gate with our. Our guest sharing a quote. So do you have one?

Absolutely. All right, I'll dive right in. This is a Bruce Lee quote. If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. And that is so relevant for where we're headed today.

Nice.

Can't wait to talk about it.

And, Adam, I know you got one.

All right, this is. So I thought, hey, I might have the same one as her, but I absolutely do not. This is the Greek philosopher Diogenes who said we have two ears and one tongue so that we would listen more and talk less.

Interesting. I've not.

I heard.

I've heard one mouth. I never heard one tongue. It's interesting. I guess the tongue is what makes the thing sound the way it does. I don't know. Your voice.

They spoke differently in 400 BC.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, well, good stuff. All right, well, Kirsten, let's start with you. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us about your background and how you first got into all this continuous improvement stuff. And then, you know, obviously the theme of this interview apparently, is something about a Kaizen Ninja face off or something like that. So I don't know what's going on with all that, so you'll have to maybe open up with that as well.

Absolutely. Well, my business is kaizeninja, and I am the Kaizeninja. And Adam reached out to me probably six months ago now, and he's like, hey, I came across your social media profile on LinkedIn, and I call myself the Kaizen Ninja too. We've got to meet up. And so Adam and I had the coolest opportunity to meet up and chat. And the synergy there was amazing. And I'm so thankful to have been able to meet Adam and just learn about how he's a little further ahead of me and just executing continuous improvement and building his consulting business. But I was very inspired, so I'm glad we had the opportunity to meet. Adam, do you want to share anything before I kind of start, like, share my background a little bit?

So I have a little different perspective on that, but I'd like you to share your background first, give you that opportunity. And a little, because this is the challenge of what happened after I reached out was kind of interesting, but we'll let her do that.

You can tell the next phase of it. Yeah. So I started. I actually went to college at RIT and graduated as an industrial engineer. And in my first co op Experience I or not. In one of my co op experiences, I learned about Kaizen events and I absolutely loved it. So when I went to my first job at Abbott in Southern California, I had done a whole variety of different lean opportunities and Six Sigma. And there was one area, the qcri, the receiving inspection area, that was struggling. And I proposed to do a Kaizen event with them. And it was a little outrageous because I was 23 years old and there was no background of Kaizen events. Everyone in the area was much older than I am, had so much more experience than I did. But the managers took a risk on me, the team took a risk on me, and I went in there and we transformed their job shop mentality into an assembly line flow. And it changed everything. And I was hooked from that moment on with Kaizen events and a majority of my career for corporations was surrounding Kaizen. But now that I branched out with my own consulting business, that is my bread and butter and it's what I'm most.

And what's the name of your consulting business then?

Oh, Kaizen Ninja.

It really is Kaizeninja.

Okay.

It really is Kaizeninja.

Okay. All right. Adam, you're a.

Well, it's hard to beat that. So if you Google it, she's who comes up first. And I was like, wait a minute. So that. That happened to me. So I'm the managing partner of Process Improvement Partners, and that's just to say it's me, my wife, my kid and my dog. But eventually when we achieve global domination, then that'll sound a little better. But I help businesses grow their profits through sustainable process improvement. And for those that have seen me before, the last seven years I've been out on my own and all I'm doing is Kaizen events because they can be life changing, they can be exciting, they can be just amazing experiences for everybody. So my side of the story is, yes, somehow I found out there was another Kaizen ninja in the world. And actually when I first started calling myself that was probably 2018, 2019, somebody reached out to me and said, hey, man, I was that. Well, I don't remember who that was. So, okay, sorry, dude. I don't think he trademarked it. So nor have I. And that doesn't matter. But anyway, so I find Kirsten and I reach out and said, hey, that's really cool. And we talk and we had this really nice chat and learned about each other and different concepts. And then just for fun, I send her one of my little squeeze toy Ninjas that I Give out to all my team members. Well, she took it and made a LinkedIn post and made it like, this challenge. Like, he's trying to. He's trying to challenge me to some kind of ninja face off. We got to figure out something. So fast forward. Here we are facing off on Gemba Academy just to share our kaizen ninja views with you, Ron, and your audience.

Okay. All right, well, so. All right, so what is this whole ninja thing all about? Like, everybody listening knows about kaizen and probably know what a ninja is, but, you know, so what's up with that? And both of you are describing yourselves using these words. So what's up?

What is a ninja? What did ninjas do in feudal Japan? They went in and got things done when no one could see them. Okay. And typically not the most positive of things. All right, so they took care of stuff. The reason why I call myself a Kaizen ninja is that the whole goal is that the team owns their solution. So the goal is that I'm not even there, that everything that happens is for them, with them in their space, in their time, the whole idea. So I've tried to hone my facilitation techniques to that point where they're so into it and engaged in owning of it that when I walk away, it sustains. Okay, so that's my image of the ninja, and I like to play around. I like silly stuff. So I give away the little squeeze toys and, you know, everybody, I make them, compete for them, and by the end, a few of them even call themselves that. So that's kind of fun. That's my vibe.

Okay.

Yeah, I love that, Adam. I'm actually so similar, and I think this is why we had such synergy when we even first met. But from my perspective, ninjas, they get in and they get out. They make a big impact, but they're sort of silent in the background when they're doing it. And that is what I want for my teams. I want my teams to really believe in themselves, share that impact, I facilitate so that they are presenting at the end of the week. They get all the ownership of their accomplishments, and they have that transformation that they believe in, and I'm on to the next place. So hopefully that sustainability really happens, just like Adam said, because they have taken on that responsibility for their own area, their own transformation, and they're really proud of the results that they've achieved that in a lot of places that I've been, they didn't even believe it was possible to get six months worth of work. Completed in a week or less. And so it's just so powerful. So that's in such a similar thought. That's where ninjas came for me too.

So I'm wondering, I'm sure Adam and I have talked about this over the years, but maybe. So I'll direct this more to you, Kirsten. I'm wondering, like my thing with Kaizen events and I've also, you know, over the years run a lot of them and it's always that, it's always interesting. There were many situations where I would, I would roll up on the, the Monday morning or whatever it was when we were getting going and, and I didn't always know everyone on the team, you know, that was going to be on there, but sometimes there would be an individual kind of sitting over in the corner and our arms are crossed, kind of looking down at the ground and you can tell they're not real excited about being part of this thing. And I'd be curious if, if you've also experienced that. I'm not calling out any of your clients or anything like that, but, you know, and, but, but, but if so, like, what. What is your style? Like what. What did you do that's so weird.

I've never experienced anyone who's not interested in full experiential transformation, so I wouldn't say that it's that common anymore. I think I've actually done a ton of positive growth with developing the charter and really working with the leadership to pick just more supportive team members. But sometimes having those individuals in the room is actually one of the best scenarios because they'll bring up some other sides of the challenge and the operation that I don't think other people are always willing to speak about. And so my process is actually the same whether there's a naysayer in the room or not. But one of the things that I really feel like I've been able to develop over time is some strength around during the current state process and brainstorming process in particular. So when we're brainstorming those challenges, the gaps, the opportunities in their process, I really lean on that person to voice some of the challenges that other people aren't going to mention necessarily. And so when we walk through the current state, they're the ones who are going to start off that process and say, hey, this isn't working. And I actually kind of lean into that and I say, if we thought it was working, we wouldn't be here. So let's figure out what these challenges are. And then I'll take it from that individual and I'll really open it up to the full team. And that'll sometimes allow the rest of the team to vocalize the challenges that sometimes they might have danced around otherwise. So I really appreciate that. The last thing that I would say that is kind of critical in the implementation phase is I will particularly frame things as a pilot. A lot of. I mean, most of my Kaizen events have some form of piloting anyway. But in those types of situations where somebody might be a little more resistant to try something out, I will absolutely say, hey, let's pilot this, let's collect data and then we're gonna tweak it anyway. So let's try it out together. It's not permanent. And that kind of helps them say, oh, not everything's changing. And then I get some buy in. And I think that's where they felt misrepresented in the past is when they don't have buy in or ownership. So I'm definitely working towards supporting them in that.

Adam, you got anything to add to that?

I get grumpy people all the time. Maybe it's just my sparkling personality, but the reality is it's exactly like Kirsten's saying. The thing is, you engage them, right? So you and I many moons ago talked about some of my post it note style approach where everybody has to. They have a voice. They have no choice but to have a voice. And I do want to share just a quick story because it's very similar. Had a gentleman, one of the nicest, largest people I think I've ever had, bodybuilder style, large, and we're organizing a maintenance shop.

He's like, no, I'm going to think I'm going to 5s that Adam, no.

And what we found out was this guy was trying to find stuff in a shipping container on the facility grounds in the middle of the night in bad weather, okay. And just outrageous conditions. So very early into the thing, he was able to show us how horrible that was. He never said it that way. This is his job. This is what he did. And so he started to really get into this thing. And I was helping, I was helping move literally thousands of parts inside for him to look through and for us to look through and all that kind of stuff. So at the end of the day, I have everybody talk about how their day was and we do Kaizen newspaper, which is basically a real quick status review. And everybody has to rotate. So everybody has to play. I start them playing two minutes into the first day. Monday at 6:02am everybody had to talk about stuff because that's when we kicked off. So this dude is talking day two, he's up there talking about stuff and he's been getting into all this stuff. He was very quiet very early and my sponsors were sitting there and he leaves, the team leaves and they come up to me and they said, what did you do to Gene? I said what do you mean what I do to Gene? He said, he's worked here six years, he's never said more than two words in front of anybody. And I said, don't take this wrong. We listen to him, right? Holy crap. And by the end of the week the dude was presenting the report out. I always have the team present because I'm the ninja, I'm not supposed to do anything. I create their report out, they tell their story, I'm just creating it around their story. And he was presenting and the people were slack jawed because nobody in that room or on the teams call had ever heard him say more than two words in six years.

Yeah.

And so that I love that kind of participant because now everybody realizes, hey, this is not for the facilitator, this is for us.

Man, I reminds me like I, it's been a minute since this happened, probably like 25 years ago or so, but I remember to this like, like it was yesterday, this particular event. I don't even remember exactly what the event was about but I remember this, this young man and he was what we would call that cave person citizen against virtually everything negative. Didn't say anything, wouldn't even look at you. And I'm like, oh boy, is it going to be interesting. And so my style was just, I just sort of, I won't call it ignored but it's kind of involved whatever and just sort of let them do what they wanted to do to be part of the thing. And by the end of it they were fully into it. And I remember at the report out came up to me and he said, you know, no one has ever, you know, listened to my ideas the way you guys did. And so really it was more of a, I feel like it was probably like a defense mechanism of this young man, right. Like he had been sort of like, I don't know, almost hurt, if you will, so badly for so long that he was just didn't want to be rejected anymore. Right. And man, it was, he was crying in the report out. I'll never forget it, man. And so I mean the work that we do is, it can really change people's lives. And. And I know you both know that, but. So everybody listening when we're out there doing this stuff, it's. It's more than just. I mean, Kaizen's easy. Come on, you can. Anyone can do it, right? But getting people's hearts and their souls to sort of get into it, that's kind of the art, man, you know? And I feel like the best facilitators know how to sort of touch that person, each person's heart. And you got to touch it in different ways sometimes. What do you guys think about that?

The heart is really. It's so interesting because I come into different processes where people are. There have been layoffs, people are overburdened, they're overworked, they've taken on more than one job continuously and they are so stressed. And that. That first Kaizen event that I shared with you, that was actually an environment. There was several rounds of layoffs and the team at the report out, it was unbelievable. There was one lady who stood up and started crying in the middle of the report out, and she said, this didn't just change my job, this changed my life. And it just like pulled on my heartstrings. I can remember that moment. And that is the piece that I think people forget or don't realize when someone is living with challenging processes every day and they're trying to meet their numbers or they're trying to have good quality output, whatever the scenario is that they're being judged on, but they are handicapped and they can't meet it for whether they're overworked, whether they don't have the parts they need, whether the process, whatever part of the process isn't flowing. They essentially carry that burden every day. And the Kaizen event, which is what I love so much, is where you're able to actually shift that and give them the opportunity to take back, like, choice within their processes and immediately open up the possibility for them to be successful in an area that they haven't been for a long time and they've been judged against it. And so that's the. That's the heart piece that I think, like keeps me in this. But then also it. It shares with other people that inspiration and like spreads. It's the ripple effect from one individual to the rest of the culture.

That person who is overburdened and overworked and stressed out or whatnot at work, guess what? That happens when they go home. They bring it home, right? You can't not help it. I mean, cortisol's still flooding their body. Right. And yeah, so this work is. Is even goes even beyond the 9 to 5 or whatever it is. Right? So, yeah. No, that's awesome.

Well, and I would say just to add to that, I mean, when like you, Ron, I noticed the moment that somebody took it so personally. So this was about 22 years ago. I do remember it. And what I said to myself was, okay, I don't need tears. But what I really want is somebody to be changed, impacted personally and deeply, so that they can take it home with them and make their lives better. Not just their work lives, but their lives better. And we don't get that all the time, but when we do, I mean, that's what energizes me. You know, I've been doing this for a while now, and I really don't, you know, I don't need to work, but I love to work. And what's really neat is when the word love comes out in the feedback that we get. I love what we did here. I love that you listen to us. I love that we did that. When the word love comes out, that's almost one of my KPIs. It's like the raw feedback at the end of the event or just the words that they say in front of each other. And our teams, to be quite honest with you, sometimes I wonder who are these people that they gave me, you know, because I design it in a very systematic way. But the leaders still pick and choose. These are the ones we want because Adam has told them the core that does the task every day is the team, and then the rest are the support. They're on the team also. But this is the critical team. So if John doesn't like Mary, I don't know that going in. And I've never met John nor Mary, but we're going to deal with it. But if we can impact John in a positive way and Mary in a positive way, not that they like each other anymore, but the fact that the event, the Kaizen itself impacted them and impacted their customers, their co workers, et cetera, then that's the true energy and impact that us Kaisen ninjas can create.

So I know that you've both worked with each other at least a few times, so I'd be curious to hear if there's anything, I don't know, sort of like unique or specific about each of your styles. You know, about how you go about this, because you're both trying to do the same thing, but how do you go about it?

Well, Adam, why Don't you kick it off with your unique styles and then I'll jump in. We actually haven't worked together though. We've only. Yeah. We've only just had a few.

Yeah. I was intrigued by. Yeah. And she's got a different vibe than I do, even though we're doing the same thing. So if you go on my website, you can see lots of cartoonish looking things. Kaizen Ninjas and Kaizen Ninja Institute and all sorts of fun, crazy things. It actually fits my thinking about Kaizen needs to be simple, easy and not scary. So people, if they're having fun, they don't recognize that this is really tough work. This guy Gene and his team were working 10 to 12 hours every day and we literally filled up three 30 yard dumpsters of stuff that's physically demanding, mentally demanding, you know, so. But they were having a blast. So when they were late, if you were ever a minute late to come back to the room on a given time, you either sang one of four songs or you did push ups or we came up with something else. Ridiculous. And the three song, the four songs were the Wheels on the Bus, Old MacDonald, Itsy Bitsy Spider or Stairway to Heaven.

Oh, nice.

So you get to choose. I had one group, they did the Macarena because they were like, we don't know any of these, but we'll do this. I don't care. Because they own their accountability. So my whole vibe is do a lot of silly stuff. Because hey, if I'm that silly, then it maybe it isn't, you know, it's not scary. It's like bowling. Anybody can bowl. You don't necessarily have to be a good bowler. You can be a bowler. So that's my whole vibe is, you know, I'm not an intimidating person. I'm telling stories. I'm boring your ears off with this stuff. I'll wear you down. I'm an ear worm. I'm in your head. I say things like, hey, let's make it butt ugly by Friday. Okay. Well, they start by the end of the week. They're saying that to me. What it means is don't let best be the, you know, get in the way of better. But ugly by Friday is a lot more memorable to them and they can appreciate it and they can make fun of me.

Yeah.

And if they can make fun of me, they can make fun of each other and they can have fun with what they're doing. And by the way, they get about three times the work done. So that's kind of My vibe. Now let's turn up. If you look at the image on her website, it's a totally different vibe.

I love your sense of humor, and I definitely go for high energy and, like, mindset shift up front. And so, Adam, I've definitely worked with a lot of people who have that similar quirky, bring in fun elements to it. That isn't my style quite as much, but we definitely are out there. I'm very much experiential. So how do we do hands on things continuously? Because to me, that hands on shift is a mindset shift. As soon as you can see the transformation, that's when your mind is like, oh, now I can apply this to everything. And so I love pulling in different elements into my events that are very experiential. For example, going out to the actual baseball court and building a prototype of the new workstation that we're designing. If that's one of the types of elements. Just doing things that help people see their process in a really different way or feel it in a different way. Switching up who's in each role just to try something new to see, like, oh, if that person who's ever done it before can do it in a simplified way, just like Adam was describing, then the operator who's doing it every single day is also going to be able to rock at it. Right. So those types of just mindset shifts is what I bring a lot into mind.

But I have to say, tell them what your. The image on your website, the first picture of you, what are you holding in your hands?

It's either a nunchuck or a ninja sword. So my. I have a background in martial arts, and so I've definitely brought that into some of my elements. And one of my signature trainings is all about the eight wastes and reducing the eight ways. And I bring in an entire nunchuck simulation.

You are a ninja. See, Adam, I don't know, man.

I know when she put down the challenge, I was a little nervous.

They're not right now.

I know the next conference, what we're gonna have. You know.

I can't wait.

That's great. I mean, it was cool to see. Same concept, but from a different angle, right? Same concept, but she's holding this freaking samurai sword. Like, that's okay. I'm gonna say it. You can bleep it. That's badass, man.

So cool. So cool. All right, well, hey, this has been a lot of fun. I appreciate you both for coming on. Maybe we could wrap things up if maybe you both can have take a turn to maybe some final words of wisdom. The folks out there who are in this lean world of ours trying to make things better, what do you got to say to them?

Absolutely. Thank you, Ron. This has been an absolute delight and a pleasure. Thank you, Adam, as well. So I want to go back to kind of that original quote. If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. And this ties into Adam's that was talking about. Just don't get stuck in perfection mode. So what can you accomplish? Let's get a move on it and start taking those steps towards change almost instantly, because as soon as you feel that change, it's inspiring to create more of it. So that's what I really. That's what I would love for people to be willing to take that first step.

Adam, for me, it's all about learning from people in your network. Right. Never be afraid to reach out to folks and find out, what's this lady holding the samurai sword, man, what can I learn from that? But I mean, the reality is, had I not. Had we not right here, we wouldn't be here. And we couldn't share our beliefs in how to help teams solve problems and win. Yeah, same idea. But the three of us do it differently. And I think that's great. That's what it should be.

Yeah, for sure. All right. And we'll put everything in the show notes. But, Kirsten, if people wanted to connect with you directly, what's the best way?

Yeah, you can find everything on LinkedIn, Kirsten Gallagher. Or you can just email kirsten the kaizen ninja.com.

Thank you.

So I would say so. LinkedIn, Adam Lawrence and Process Improvement Partners. I have two pages, but come to my website because I think you guys would get a. If you like Kaizen Ninjas, right, check out PI-partners.com. you'll see a little more Kaizen Ninja vibe in there, but no samurai swords. We don't have any of that.

Nice.

Awesome. All right, we'll have everything linked up on the show notes here. So everybody to scroll down on whatever you're listening to and go connect with Kirsten and Adam. So again, thanks for coming on. I appreciate you both.

Thanks, Ron.

Thank you, Rob.

Enjoyed it.

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