Ep #5: Data Trends in Major Marketing Funnels from 2019 to 2024 - Pt. 1

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Hi Erica, welcome to the Advisor Summit. We're excited to talk about 14 trends in marketing funnels from 2019 to 2024. A big study that you just did. And I know that this is kind of the precursor to a very bigger and more in depth one. So I'm excited to kind of see the high level, get kind of the big picture items in there and then we can kind of work through the more nitty gritty stuff as we get that next, the next study out.

So yeah, yeah, we're going to nerd out today.

I love it. I know anybody that loves data or nerding out, this is the one for you guys. I know self proclaimed. I have no shame. I have no shame in being a nerd. I love data. I was just talking to someone today and they were like I love data and I'm like I don't think it's a bad thing. So especially in today's day and age. So what kind of originally inspired you to dive deep into these marketing funnels? I know we're going to talk about seminars, radio, tv, all of the funnels. So what kind of initially Inspired you from 2019 to 2024 to look at that timefra?

Yeah, so we've been doing aggregate studies from all of our clients data since that time. Obviously it was way less people included in 2019 just because we were a smaller company. And so typically what I will do is I'll do like the current year stuff and then look at last year's as a comparison in each of our studies. But I've never, I've never done the whole thing. Like I've never really gone back to be like okay, what, what was it in 2019? We've sliced it the same every year when we do these studies and I'm only looking at like current year versus one year ago. And so I just got to wondering right like people are like what's it done the last three years? I'm like, I actually don't know. So yeah, it just came for me being like, is it, has it continued to drop like year over year and that's. Yeah, that's kind of what piqued my interest there and why we went down this rabbit hole.

I love it.

I love it.

And before we really dive into the big, big details, what was kind of the biggest surprise that you found or something that was really unexpected that you didn't, you know.

No, yeah, yeah. So honestly, more than anything, one was that all of them have worked from an ROI standpoint every year. And I want to like say that even just as an overall umbrella because I am going to talk about the nitty gritty and maybe talk about some negative aspects and positive aspects of each of them. But at the end of the day, all of them were positive ROI every single year from 2019 through 2024. Which to me immediately negates people. Something doesn't work or doesn't work for me. I had like, I have a hard line with that because I'm like, I, I just saw it for. It is you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a tough conversation. No one likes to think that's a problem.

They don't, they don't. And it might be sales process related or it might be called action related. Like there's so many different reasons why it could maybe not work. So that was the most surprising thing to me in a positive light that they all have worked even from the very, very get go. Like TV is relatively new and it's still has pulled a positive ROI year over year over year. And it's. Some of them are small, but it's still pulled a positive roi.

So going. I love that. I think that's such a case to market. Like find your niche, find what works for you. Everything can work, but find what you want to work and go for it. Don't be afraid to market. I think it's a huge thing. Especially in this year we're going to see those that can market well are definitely going to start to thrive and kind of expand their knowledge from the bunch. So let's dive into dinner seminars. I know everyone loves it's the tried and true, the bread and butter I feel like of this industry. And they have seen their highs and lows.

They have.

I mean I think it's pretty apparent to see it how you kind of interpret the rise and fall of average case size over the years with dinner seminars. Because I thought once we read that study, which will also be linked in the show notes so anyone can get access to that if they want. But how have you kind of seen that average case size over the years?

That one was Interesting to me. And honestly, that was probably one that I had to see sit with because I had just thought it was only on the rise and that surprised me. And, and to be honest, Dinner summers as a whole, I'm gonna actually just cover that first. They were way more volatile than I thought they were. Again, keep in mind, like they were still a positive ROI every single year. So it's not like they broke. It's just that like their close rates were lower than I thought they were. Like year over year over year, their average case size went like up and down. The ROI has gone up and down at a larger variance than any of the other sources. So I don't want to say that they're not consistent because they have pulled a positive roi. So they're consistent in that, in that fact. But the way that everything is working together, like the average case size with the close rates, with conversion rates even, which we didn't even pull into the study, those are all shifting very much every single year. And that part's hard for advisors. I know that doesn't totally answer the average case size question, but it, it more goes along the fact that like, not only is the average case size size shifting, so is like the conversion rates are shifting a ton.

The close rates are closed rates.

Yeah.

So it's not one.

All of it is, is like telling kind of a brand new story every year, which is a little bit hard for people to plan on. Yeah.

Well, especially in marketing, I think consistency is massive. I think when you're trying to, you know, turn up a dial, you want to know if I do X and I get X result and that's a tough pill to swallow. But also knowing that expectation for anyone listening I think is relieving. You know, it's like, man, you are not alone. If you felt like dinner seminars weren't consistent, they weren't. They didn't do the same thing year over year. So there's hopefully.

And you have to like take all the pieces. Like you have to check all the parts of it and it's going to be a win. Like that at the end of the day was a win. But looking at your data specifically and nationwide, like, okay, every year it's going to kind of rewrite itself. So let's pay attention in Q1, in Q2 so that we know how to plan for Q3 and Q4.

Yeah.

What that demographic is doing.

So I think it's massive. Paying attention is huge. I think that that's a key thing someone can get from this is know Your numbers know what's happening so that if you do need to pivot or do you need to turn that dial, you know, know what to do. So that's, that's massive. So I know it's been a pretty like consistent, you know, sales process. But you mentioned close rates specifically have stayed kind of below our industry benchmark. Why do you think that is?

That wasn't always the case. So I started industry so long ago and when I first started the close rate was like typically at a 30%. It just, it sat there and this six year study is proving that it, it isn't like, it is not. That's something. I think we're going to maybe have to adjust our benchmark for seminars specifically to more of a 25%. And honestly there's several reasons. Particularly last year, people just didn't move because of the election. We also saw that happen during COVID and so that really affected those two years.

You know, sometimes environment. Yes.

Environmental, you can't negate that. Um, I also just really think and just have seen it in the data where there's so much more information overload now that these prospects aren't just going to your dinner seminar. Like they can look you up. They have advisors at their fingertips. A lot of advisors are practicing in multiple states. So yeah, you're, it's not like you're losing them, it's just that they have a lot more resources at their, at their beck and call to where they could. Yeah, they could go meet via Zoom only they don't have to go into this brick and mortar or be within that specific zip code.

Yeah.

And so we're just seeing a bit of a shift there. And again, like back to my point, just because the close rate is dropping and even though we're going to maybe like drop the benchmark there, that doesn't mean it's not a win because the average case size has increased at least the last three years. So yeah, don't write them off. It's just again, understanding that that is dropping, like the close rate has dropped and having the correct expectation like you said, but also knowing that you're writing some higher net worth people now. And high net worth typically can mean a lower close rate and I think we're gonna talk about that a little bit later, so it won't be a spoiler alert on that. But if you write the higher average case size people, they just take longer to close.

Yeah, that's fair. It's a fair assessment. No, and I think it's the sticky like stick to itness that really has to come out is you just have to be patient and watch that sales cycle. I love advisors, and I think it's hard to sometimes when we're going over just with the firms that. This is kind of the seminar page that we have with all of the metrics. I always recommend people come in there quarterly because advisors will want to go. Will go in and they're like, I have no roi. But you have to wait your due diligence period before making a decision that could potentially shift your marketing dollars. Like wait that time period to really see what happens. So especially if you have higher network, maybe check, you know, four months later, you know, see what happened and kind of follow the process. But again, goes back to knowing your numbers and having a process in that. So you noted a correlation between a lower average case size and a higher close rate.

Why?

What do you think advisors should take away from that?

So the lower the average case size, the more transactional it is. So these people are not giving you necessarily their entire life savings. Right. They're millionaires and we're writing 100,000, $200,000 policy. It's a lot easier for them to let go of it and therefore it's much quicker as opposed to if we're doing like their entire net worth. Right. These are one, they're way more complicated and they take longer and just taking longer when you're looking at data the way we do in certain timeframes. To your point, like they're not going to close within 60 days. They're going to close in 90 to 120 to 160 days. And that lowers your close rate because they're still pending. So all these things, these like kind of these threads that you have to pull and like make sure they're all working together, but that statistically speaking, days between appointments is shorter for lower average case size and the close rates are higher because it's just interesting. It's not all their money that they're giving you.

Yeah. And they're quicker to make. Really brings out the human side of money also. Right. Like it's not just. You're not just servicing someone with dollar signs. It is a human interaction that you really have to navigate with them and navigate through this journey. So it's. Yeah, it's. And it's catering to the human side. So let's shift to radio. Now radio seems to really be a consistent player, which I. This really shocked me. I always thought radio is just like this authority builder. It's kind of, you know, there. But radio is a very consistent performer, you know, across key size and conversion rates. Why do you think it is so steady, man?

Radio is kind of like, cool. The. Like, it is. It's cool. And that one surprised me too. It's kind of like the long. It's like your friend from elementary school. That's like, how I feel about radio for these advisors, because they do it and it's fine, and they feel like it's antiquated, and it's like, it's radio, you know, and everyone's like, radio is so old school, but truth is, people just have their station that they listen to and it's on. Like, it's on in the garage and it's on in the car. And they, um. But by the time they're ready to come in, they're quicker in the sales process. They close better. It has the most consistent roi. Cause it's just like they. They feel like they know you. Like, they've listened to you forever. And I have been in this industry long enough to, like, when radio was new, like, it was the new thing, like how TV is now, and everyone was jumping into it and like, wanting these immediate results and all these leads, and they were getting a ton of leads. That is not the same anymore. So it's not like you're getting tons and tons of leads from the weekend. You might. They might trickle in, but it's not like that. It's like these random calls that are coming in of like, I've listened to you before and I'm finally retiring, and I've listened to you and I love your stuff, and now it's time. Like, it's much more a timing issue, which makes it more consistent because these people, you're not really having to sell them honestly, like, you're selling yourself through being authentic on the radio. And then they just come in and they're ready to do business. So it's like that trustworthy sidekick, elementary school friend forever.

It almost feels a bit like. Almost like a referral. Like, if you have. That's a very quicker. Because they trust you because so and so said so. And it's almost like the radio. They know you because so it's a quicker process as well. So I know you talked a lot with. Especially with radio, kind of the gap measurement, and I know that that's a very intense subject. And if you go to our aggregate study, they can learn about it. There's. But is there any way that people can kind of learn even more about that? Do you have a resource or something that we can send people.

Yeah, that is a really thing and I spend lots of time talking about it. Yeah. So it is in our educational library and it will give you a great definition. It actually gives you like mathematically how to find your own gap. But essentially like a very thousand foot view. Radio has a high gap, which is why we talk about it with radio. It's. It's basically measuring the difference in a percentage of how much money was written from radio this year. Like as a whole from all the people that came in versus just the people from like this year's leads and this year's money.

Okay.

A lot of radio business that comes in are from leads from years and years and years ago that have listened.

Hard to track roi.

Yeah, like you can't attach a cost to them. That's what we're trying to do with gap. Like the gap measurement is really taking away kind of the costs and saying overall how did this perform? And radio has the highest percentage there just because it's like referrals. They just, they've been around a while and now they come in. So yeah, go to our educational Ask ep. You don't have a subscription there. But that, that will have really good resources on like what that is, how to find it.

That's awesome. I'll be sure to link it for anyone listening in the notes as well for the resource center on the Traffic Advisor website. It's just awesome. And it has, I mean this study will be in there a ton of different resources if people are looking for help on the gap especially. So let's just again to tv. I love tv. It kind of feels like this wild card of the bunch that nobody really knows how to travel, what to do with. But what are some signs that it's beginning to mature as a viable funnel? Because I think for a long time it really didn't have the, the credibility that radio as well as dinner seminars and granted rightfully so it's new. You don't trust a new thing. Right away it was the shiny object. So what are some signs that you're seeing that's beginning to mature?

One, it's evening out. It's still volatile. It's still volatile. So it still is like the sales process is kind of weird and each office that I do coaching on, they are trying to figure it out. There's lots of ways to do it, kind of like radio, but we've kind of figured that out. So there's lots of ways to do it. You can do these like small look lives. You can do a show, you can do commercials. From a billing and cost standpoint, it's tricky because some of them are like, lumped together. So you'll have like, commercials and a show and we can't break up the cost, so we're tracking both. So the tracking side of it has been sticky. I'm also doing a paper on that that's coming up. I'm writing it this month. It'll be out in the summer. But it's more about like breaking out each type of.

So yeah.

Is a show better than a look, live than a commercial then? You don't know or. We're not trying to.

I'm excited for that because I think a lot of people want that knowledge, you know, especially. It's not a low cost marketing funnel. I don't think that's a bad thing to say. It's a high cost. It costs a shedload of money. And that's when you're spending that much. It's scary. And you want to know, okay, am I going to spend it correctly and allocate it properly? So.

And you just used my term shed load. I know, I know. Should I.

Should I do hunky dory as well? It's fine. I'm just gonna be Erica Polly when I.

When I mature.

So, yeah, I.

That is shed load. We're not swearing. It's a term I use all the time and my team makes fun of me for it, but it does. It costs a lot of money. And even on the study that I'm doing, I mean, it. It is one of them specifically. I won't tell you which one because we're like, still doing the breakout. But one of them, the cost per client is over $20,000 for like the show or the commercials or whatever. I mean, it's a lot of money.

And so you have to be throwing your industry average. That's four times the industry average. You know, that's.

So you've gotta be able to be ready for that. Um, so we are seeing certain pieces of it work out. Like, like commercials and shows specifically are like starting to even out. Um, those are the things where we see it starting to mature. I love that it has had a positive roi. It's probably the lowest positive ROI just because we're still figuring it out. So it's not as high as seminars or radio, but it is still positive. And the average case size is. Is high. So there's a high average case where you're good people. I think they see it as if these people can afford to be on tv then they're probably trustworthy, honestly.

Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment and I think it does take a particular advisor like fit. I always think marketing is a little bit like a matchmaking service. It's like you have to really find your right marketing funnel where you fit and feel authentic and genuine and not everybody needs to be on tv. Truthfully, like I don't think it's a fit for everybody, so. Yeah. Oh yeah, I mean I think it's, I think I was just talking to someone today and I think genuineness is going to be the new currency, especially as we see AI evolve in everybody. I've even seen it on LinkedIn, you know, and it's like man, that was a total chat GPT written thing, which is a great tool and by no means like fashioned, it's an amazing tool. But I think genuine connection is going to become craved in our industry and society totally. You know, as a whole. So yeah. With TV's average new business for office nearly doubling from 2019 to 2024 as it's been maturing, what advice would you give to advisors that are curious about trying it, that are maybe hesitant due to that kind of $20,000 price tag?

Yeah, you have to be prepared to have a hit. So while it is overall profitable, I'm talking it's like negligible profitable. Right. So you have, there's a ton of revenue going out and there is more revenue coming in, but it's like that. So it is building authority. It's working for you, but you have to be able to afford that price tag and, and it's not as transactional as like dinner seminars are going to be or a webinar is going to be. It's just more of an authority builder. Yeah, you'll make money on it. But do you have the margins to. And the cash flow to like have that much going out and only have that much of a return? Hopefully that makes sense.

Yeah, I know, a hundred percent. I think it sets the expectations. I think expectations in this industry are very much needed. So it's like yes, it's not a no, but it's a be prepared for that. That's going to be the huge thing. So I think it's great. So what kind of clients is truly attracting? I know you kind of mentioned they are kind of higher net worth clients. Do you find that they're co closing, you know, just as quickly as potentially a radio because they've already built that authority or Maybe a little bit slower, like a dinner seminar. How's that kind of journey look like for tv?

That one's all over the map. So that one we have and you know, again, setting expectations. You're going to have to start looking at your own story right now. We don't have, yes, we have six years worth of data, but it wasn't as many offices doing it. Right. So like in 2019, I think it was like three offices in our study. It's not very many. And that's, that's hard to take those sorts of trends and stuff from it. And so at this point, people who are doing it, you need to follow that data so closely and see how it's working for you. Don't run necessarily to what these studies have said about TV specifically. I mean, they help and they can maybe point you in the right direction. But I wouldn't use them like we use the dinner seminar stuff as the historical rate benchmarks from it. I don't have benchmarks for TV yet. I'm trying to get there, but I have to have a lot of data to do that.

Yeah. And I think it's fair. I think it's, I love that you're, you know, honest about that. There's no shame in saying like, we don't have the answers yet. You know, we don't have that. Rather than just blasting and saying, yeah, like awesome, this is, you know, should.

Be your close rate.

This should be your sick grade. And I think that's really good natured. And the firm of, hey, we actually need to have data behind this and need to have the right trend seeking analysis. So it's very cool. Of all the funnels, I mean those are kind of the big ones. And as well as referrals and we did podcasts. So anyone listening? If you want to deep dive into referrals, we did a whole trends on referrals, but those are kind of the big main three. Of all the funnels, what do you feel like is most undervalued going into 2025?

So I creatively, I'm gonna answer this question.

Okay.

I do want to put a disclaimer on there. We didn't include shops, we did not include education workshops in that study because they are so gray. Like some of them have mailers and some have digitals and some are using all these different platforms for it and they label them really weird. We will be doing a study on that later. But I fairness, I didn't want people to be like, aren't workshops up there? Yeah, they're like one of the top funnels. It's just they're way too gray for us to. To dive into something like this or on a paper. So that being said, the most undervalued is the fact that they all have to work together. Like, there's not one.

Okay.

I've done so many coaching calls where people have like nine or ten random funnels that they're trying and there is no strategy and there is no plan and there is no, like, how this is going to feed into this is going to feed into this. It is just try that, try that, try that, try that. And that is such a disservice. So the undervalue is you knowing how they all work as a whole. They have to work as a whole. Right. Like we taking it back to just examples we use in our family is like, we are a unit. Right. Like we are 18. We all have different functions in our home. I can't be going around and like just picking up laundry and picking up messes every day like Tristan or Fiona. Like, you guys need to be doing that aspect. And I think people forget that. They think that everything's just gonna like, be on its own tangent.

Yeah.

And when it doesn't work as a team, it's very clear in the data. Like, funnels look different, the demographics are doing different things. And that shows me you don't have a, like, strategy, strategic plan in place. So I know that doesn't fully answer the question. No.

But if someone doesn't have a plan, like, how do you recommend that they begin that journey if someone's just blind and it's like, I really have no plan. I'm just trying all of these things. Is there a certain type of way to track maybe that data? Or how do you, like, how would you recommend today's. I always am a big fan of like, what can we do today to help us in the future?

Oh, that's a good question.

So I threw that at you. Sorry.

I. And I have no shame in taking a minute to answer questions. You know this. I'm a slow start. So what I would do there, I would recommend to an office that they take what we do know. Right. Like dinner seminars can be more transactional than TV or radio. Yeah. We know that radio takes a long time. So taking what we do know with those things, really mapping it out and saying, what is my long term strategy with radio? Maybe if leads are listening, we can do a call to action to our dinner seminars. Because we know that's more of a Transactional thing so we can invite them to that. Same with tv. Right? If you're doing look lives, what is your call to action? If it's like a toolkit, right. Like they do this. Look life. Hey, if you want to talk to us, here's a toolkit.

Track the.

Track what the toolkits are doing. If you're not getting movement and we're not getting leads from there, maybe we change the call to action to the workshop or to the dinner seminar. So like letting them all kind of do this rather than just five different marketing strategies for five different things. So they kind of all these dovetail into whatever your priority is. Like I will say too, maybe a first appointment isn't your priority. Maybe it's just, maybe it's just getting a 15 minute phone call. Maybe it's just getting them to the workshop. Like you have to decide at day one what your actual priority is because not all of them are going to generate a first appointment right away. So start with that. I love that. Kind of wrap all of them with a nice boat.

With a nice boat. The priority and track the data. I would also say like, you need to have some type of system of tracking and if you want help and resources like reach out to Chocolate Advisor. I know this is not a shameless plug, but it's like, man, we just want to help you understand that so you can make better decisions. So that's one thing for advisors, you've got to be tracking.

So.

Yep.

But I love it. I'm so excited about the actual even bigger study coming out that's going to deep dive into it and I know our listeners will be excited for that. But thank you for just kind of giving us the big picture ones. I think that this is huge and hopefully it also alleviates a lot of maybe stress around marketing to say they all did have a positive roi. Like we can leave, you know, advisors with that saying you can do it, you know, every you, you can do it. Start somewhere. If you've never done anything, start somewhere. Start with dinner seminars, you know, start with something just to kind of get your foot in the door. So yeah.

And that marketing works like in general, marketing works okay.

Marketing works so awesome. Erica, thank you so much for your time. We'll be sure to link, you know, some resources in the show notes as well for anyone that wants to reach out. Or you can email us helloracktheadadvisor.com to get in touch as well. So have a great day.