Developing An Authentic Brand in the Trades | Podcast Ep. 164 | Toolbox for the Trades

Hello, contractors, and welcome to Toolbox for the Trades. My name is Jackie Aubel, and today I am chatting with Ryan Kettering, the owner of Prolific Brand Design. Ryan believes that to create an effective brand, you don't have to start from scratch. Instead, he encourages folks to lean into their individuality and core beliefs. I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did. Ryan Kettering, you are the owner of Prolific Brand Design. Today we are here to talk about how to create a brand based on one's core belief and individuality. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Welcome to Toolbox for the Trades.

Thanks, Jackie. Appreciate it.

I'm so excited to chat with you. I'm so happy that you're here. We're going to talk about branding for the trades. Before we do, we're going to dive into an icebreaker, and I'm unleashing some new questions, so I hope you don't mind this one. I would love to know, if you were a wrestler, Ryan, what would your intro song be?

So, for me, I think probably I would. The mainstream one would be Annie up by Mop, which hopefully that's mainstream enough that people would know what that is, but kind of like that hype Annie up anyways.

Oh, sure, sure, sure.

Yeah, that was like. That was one of my old, like, high school football, like, get, get ready to go songs. But actually in a podcast that I've since kind of let go, we used to use one that a friend of mine created and his name is Mose Ella. And it's a pretty cool song, so I would use somebody more personal than me, probably.

Okay, very cool. I love it. Great answer and great not being thrown off by it. If I really wanted to throw you off, I'd be like, what's your wrestler name, Ryan? But we're not going to get into that.

Yeah.

Unless you have one on the top of your head.

I don't know. I don't think so. I used to put on my screen name for things. Rt. My middle name is Thomas, so it used to be RT Ket or Kettering. And people would think it says Rocket. So maybe something to that. I don't know.

Oh, yeah, that could work. That could work. Also dug myself my own hole by asking you what your wrestler name is. I don't have my own wrestling name, so we'll just move right along. Brian, tell me, how did you get into the trades?

My first job was 13. I was actually did carpet cleaning for a guy in Iowa, and that was my first job to fund the business that I started, which had to do with which I wanted to open an embroidery shop and then I sold it and it went towards my first car. But when I graduated high school, which I did in three years because I hated school, I started my first business and did that for 10 years. And that was carpet cleaning. Just because basically at the time I really always wanted to do art, but I didn't know, how do you. How do you make money with art? How do you. You know what I mean? So I had this starving artist idea in my head and this is, you know, the carpet clean is a little bit. It's not quite H Vac, plumbing, etc, but it was kind of. That's where I started at and, and it opened my eyes over time to what this world is. People need to know in high school and in junior high that these things are available. It's not just, you know, military or college. You know, you don't have to sign up for 100k in debt.

Yeah. So you had this carpet cleaning background, which, by the way, we have carpet. I. I know carpet cleaners. We've had folks who do carpet cleaning. I don't think we've had them on the podcast, but we definitely have had them in the service titan universe. You had mentioned before I was an artist who didn't know how to make money through art, but now you figured out how to do that with prolific brand design. So when did you figure out. I have this gift when it comes to art and when it comes to branding and I'm going to serve the trades.

It's one of those things where I always, I probably are too smart for my own good because I always thought I knew everything. And then it's not until I got to the next level that I realized I didn't know anything. Even when I started my carpet clean business, 17 years old, I didn't know how to make money with it really. It was like I just started knocking on doors and, you know, I just kind of learned as you went, you didn't really know starting out, like how to really do anything. And this was before MapQuest. This was before, you know, maps on your phone. You didn't have, you know, blackberries and, or now iPhones. You know, all this stuff came later. And so it was like, just get out and try to talk to people and serve up value wherever I could. But how I got into the graphics side was, was basically after a long time, I figured out how to run a decent business and I started to kind of just talk with the Community a little bit the, the industry, the carpet cleaning industry and the, the wider service industry and just kind of show what I was doing in my own business. So, so I, you know, I doubled down on this and today we have a, a team with some great people. A full time brand designer, full time layout designer. My wife does our project management, my brother's full time sales. So, you know, we built a team of a handful of people that do really amazing work. I always was interested in marketing and that's where I think it clicked for me that really the best marketed companies are the best branded companies. And I started to kind of understand what was really happening and not just what marketers want us to believe is happening, which is that spend more money, spend more money, go, go wider, go bigger, drop more money on it and you'll do fine. It's like, no, you can actually, you know, Tesla's never spent a dollar on marketing. How are they the most valuable car manufacturer if they've never spent a dollar on marketing? And so these types of questions, I would sit with them and try to figure them out. And you know, I think we've done a pretty good job of doing that.

So very interesting. All right, I have so many like little tidbits. First off, MapQuest, thank you so much. This is a tech owned podcast, so thank you for just keeping the most up to date tech relevant on today's show. Ryan, really, this is really interesting though, but you had a carpet cleaning business and you had likely a very good brand and good marketing because it's something you were intuitively good at. You started helping other contractors and when it came to choosing which rabbit to chase, you chose that because that was more aligned with your interests and what you wanted to do. I think that's so interesting and I love what you just said about that your brand is not your logo. Kind of like eyes wide, like aha moment here. And when we, you and I first talked, you said that the easiest way to build a good brand is just be more of you. And that's what I want to really talk about on today's show. So explain that concept to me. What does it mean when you say a good brand is just being more of you?

Yeah, well, so there's kind of two ways that people that come, that I initially talked to about branding, they're looking to do something. Two typical ways that they look at things. They're like, I just want what I want and I want to, you know, it's all going to be about me or the other side Is like, I just want to build it for my customer. I just want to make money. And I don't care what it looks like. Like, I don't care if I like it. I don't care if, you know my brand, my logo. I don't care about anything. I just want it to be for the market. And what I try to do is. Is help you to see it's not about just you or just them. It's like building. Building a bridge between. So it's a relationship, but it starts with, you know, I think a lot of us have spent a lot of time figuring out who our customers are. So it's like, we got that side right, and we know who we are well enough to live it out every day. There's a few levels of knowing something. One is knowing about something. One is knowing how to do something. And then the third level is knowing how to teach someone else or be creative enough to be aware of what you're doing so you can teach it and evolve on it and things like that. And so that's what we're trying to help people do is like, all right, you live you out every single day, but you don't know how to be more of you because you haven't articulated it and clarified it and built systems around it. To teach another individual, like your team, or to. To give what we call anchor touch points to your customers so that they can latch on to who they are. And when they refer you, you have a systematic way that you've sort of planned out. You've choreographed how they're going to talk about you. And if you've done well, they talk about you in the ways that you want them to. Your brand is what people say about you, but your branding is you trying to sort of manipulate that so they say the things you want them to say and think the things you want them to think about you and associate you with the right things. But basically, a lot of people hear something like, you have to be different. And they think, well, how am I supposed to do something that no one else has ever done? And I think that's the question that most people think. And so I shift the question that people think and to, instead of saying, well, how do I be different and do something that no one's ever done before? To saying, look, if. If. If you believe that you're inherently unique like I do, all you have to do to be different is not be doing something no one's ever done before, no one's ever seen before. Cause we've all had those ideas where we search online and we're like, oh, I just got this new invention idea, or I have this new thing. And we're like, I bet no one's done this. And every single time someone's always done it. Right? And so that's hard for people. But when I shift in and say, look, what if we just assume you're already unique because I believe you are, and what if we could just double down on who you are? What if we could take who you are and double down on that so that you can be unique through being the same, the same as who you already are? And so basically it's a counterintuitive way to look at differentiation, which is that true differentiation is created through sameness and the sameness based on who we are. And so we use ourself as a stamp. I call it a fractal brand identity system. There's also a workbook on our website. People can get for free, but it's like, you take who you are like a stamp, and it's like, how many times can I stamp myself on every interaction, every impression, every touch point so that essentially you create this fractal or self replicating thing to where if you want to come together with another person, you need to be pointing at the same thing.

Right, Interesting. Okay, so I really like this for, for a big reason. Right. Like I wrote down when you were talking about, it's finding uniqueness through sameness almost, which feels like that doesn't make sense, but it's doubling down on who you are and what you stand for. And what I really like about this, what I think is tempting about this, is that you don't really have to do much changing. I think, especially in the age of social media, especially in the age of, you know, having more access than ever to what our competitors are doing or what people we admire are doing. You know, we're constantly comparing ourselves to people that we want to be like, and comparison is the thief of joy. And what I really like about your approach is that it looks inward and it focuses on, like, what am I already good at now? You, like, kind of hinted at this with the the end of your last answer. I know from personal experience how hard it is to be objective about myself. And I can only imagine the same is true for service entrepreneurs who are trying to be objective about, like, what the heck does Roy's Heating and Plumbing stand for? Like, I don't know. So I really would love to know, like, how do you work with clients to identify who they are in order to create a brand.

Yeah. So, you know, when people have the Simon said, I start with why TED Talk is the most TED watched TED Talk of all time. It's something like, I don't know, 20 million views or something more. It's a 15 minute talk. If you haven't seen it, you can check it out. You can just search for that. But most people, they watch that talk or they read the book and they're like, okay, I know my why. It's my family. And I'm. And like, they feel good about themselves, I guess, because you come off that, like that speaker high of like just what was talked about and you just want to fill in an answer so you can move on and feel like you've sort of completed the open loop that the speakers made for you.

Sure. You're like, check. Family. Done. I'm so good at this.

Yeah. Time to get started now. I'll be the next apple, because I figured out. But the thing is that most people, they come up with their family. Like almost everybody says, my family is my why. And that's not. I've never found that to be true, not with one person. And the reason why is that your family is a who, not a who.

Can I just say. Can I just say, if I had a hot take button, like a sound effect, I would put it right after that, Right after you said that it's never family. Hot take from Ryan. All right, sorry, continue.

Yeah, it's, you know, people, it's a cop out because if. It just doesn't make sense. If your why was your family, you would never leave your house. You would basically plant like tomatoes and get chickens in your backyard. You'd never leave your home.

You'd.

You just stick with your family. You'd never talk to neighbors. You'd never go out in the world and do anything. And so the evidence would show that that's not true. Now, your why could be family. The concept of family is a value, but again, I think most people actually go still wider than that. They typically. The smallest version of this usually comes down to something with community building or something like that, where people are trying to solve a problem, build, you know, have some sort of idea or belief about community or family in general that they're trying to chip away at. But, but really I tend to kind of back up and start with, why do you care? Because a lot of times people talk about purpose and why, and people know that they need it because they know inside of them at their core before anybody you know, any guru talked about or they, we all know we need purpose, right? And so people perk up and they want to hear, they want their, their ears tickled about it. But a lot of times they don't actually know what to do with that. And that can be discouraging because they, they know it's important, but they don't know how to figure it out and they don't know how to apply it because they haven't put any clarity around it. And so usually I try to get people excited about the fact that people actually use this for making money, for connecting with people, for having impact, etc. In one of the things that I try to, to, to help people to create is what I call anchor touch points. We talk about this in our strategy calls with people. But basically an anchor touch points. Like it's basically a touch point. It's, but it's a, it, it's specifically designed to try to anchor you or your brand to the client by some sort of anchor, like a physical object. You want to anchor your brand to a physical object, to an idea, to a phrase, like a tagline, to something like that. Right. And one of the things you can try to anchor yourself to is your core belief. Chick Fil A, their core belief is about being a great servant to others. And so just to kind of frame this for people because if I get into figuring out what your why is and people don't know how to apply it, maybe they won't be as excited. But just a couple examples like Chick Fil A when they, when they, they're actually the only fast food restaurant. A lot of people haven't sat and kind of been a nerd like me and sit there and look at the brand and the touch points at all these businesses. But you can't get your own drink at fast food at, at Chick Fil A, every other fast food restaurant you can get your own drink at. Um, now why is this important? Well, because if you were allowed to get your own drink, they would have a self serving drink station in their lobby. But their company core belief is around serving others. And so when they were going to. Looking at the, the industry standard, the industry best practices on how to build their restaurants, someone was smart enough to say where should the, where should a self driving self serving drink station go? And somebody said, hey, why are we going to have a self serving drink station when that's literally the opposite of what we're about? And so a very simple system is to put that behind the counter. And now it forces systematically for the team members there to treat others in the way that they want to be treated and the people to receive a particular type of service in a way that they want to happen. And so a lot of times people think of systems as being hard because it's like, well, I can't get our people to do your stuff. That's because your system's not good enough. Your system should be basically unbreakable. A brand promise and anchor touchpoints. They should be nearly impossible, if not impossible, to actually do the wrong way for someone. And so you don't want to leave that up to others, you want to leave it up to the system. And as people just go along their regular jobs, it just kind of works itself out.

So Chick fil a being and remind me, what's their mission again? To be a servant of say it again.

I say it's to have they believe that people need the heart of a certain more people need the heart of a servant. And that's something that I've come up with based off of outward looking in because typically you don't actually voice your core belief out in the world. You voice it internally to get external action. And so as you look around, you won't find this concept really being talked about. I'm talking about it because we're helping internal stuff, but on the outside you won't hear a lot of companies talk about it, but you hopefully feel it. You know what I mean?

Sure. So this message that guide this guiding principle of what is my brand being a servant. So being an excellent example of a servant. So we're going to put the soft server that we're going to put the drinks behind the counter because we will always serve our customers. So that action is an anchor touch point of the brand, which is, you know, we are a servant to our customers essentially just trying to put the example to the. The theory that you're putting out here.

Exactly, yeah. And if you string together several of those because the old way to do brand promise was like enterprise will pick you up and it's just like one thing and that's what we're hanging our hat on. Problem is today people can rip off one thing really easily. So what you want to do is you want to actually create your experience around something people can't replicate, which is who you are at the core. People cannot be you as much as they try want to try because they'll never know what happens. They don't ever know the motivations or all of the pieces or whatever. And typically Their business isn't created in a way that can sustain whatever you're doing, right? When Delta tried to do it, Southwest did. They almost went bankrupt originally when Southwest came out, because people cannot copy everything. You can take one little page, but not the whole book. They just can't keep it up. And so if you do it right, what will happen is people will go through your experience and they'll say, wow, this is amazing. This is great. Like, they'll feel something, and then they will want to do something. They'll want to use your service again. They'll want to tell somebody whatever. And hopefully, maybe if it's good enough, they'll even take one of your anchor touch points. And when they tell somebody about you, it's. It'll give you proof. So everyone says, we're the best. We have the. Our guys are trained. We're licensed, we're insured. We do, you know, phenomenal work. We. We answer the like. Everybody says all the same stuff, but you have to get. If you give. If you just simply just give proof, all of a sudden it becomes real and it becomes something that's. That's meaningful. The best ideas in the history of the world are cliches, right? Why are they cliches? Because everyone knows them to be true. Everyone knows we should do these things, the golden rule, whatever. But all these different. There's many cliche things, ideas, beliefs, whatever. Action is the difference. And so what you want to do is you want to be. You want to be intentional about creating actions around your things which are probably cliche because all, like, there's no new ideas under the sun, right? So it's like you're not going to come up with a idea or belief that no one ever has had in life. The goal is not to be clever. The goal is to be clear, articulate, and then take action on the thing. And so Chick Fil A will string together a hundred of those types of little touch points, and we come out leaving feeling different than otherwise. And a lot of times we can't. As a consumer, we don't know what happened. We just know we'd want to go there again. Sometimes you'll give them a little anchor touch point. Like, for instance, the Doubletree Hotel. They have the warm cookies in the lobby all. And 34% of times where people mention Doubletree online, they also mention the word cookie. So why. Why is this the case? Well, it's not because of the cookies, because they can go to next door at, you know, Wendy's or 7 11, get a cookie. Right. So it's not about the cookies. What is it about? It's about what the cookie symbolizes and what it stands for. And that is a greater part of what the company stands for. And so when you give somebody a tangible anchor point to, to to grab onto it, it allows them to articulate it to someone else without having to get to the emotional side. Because we can't articulate our emotions. We can only articulate logic. So what we do is we give a logical thing that people can hang on to for an emotional thing that's happening to me. Right. And so that way you can tell somebody, you give them the evidence. It doesn't matter how big or small. It just means that as long as that evidence is meaningful to that person, as long as your company can repeat it so that you can keep, you know, so it's going to be true for the next person and that it's unique, then it's going to be magic. And what most people try to do is, is just do what everybody else is doing and that's called a gimmick. So when you can double down on who you are to the, to the extent of, of providing extensive proof for who you are in the market, that creates magic. But if you so be more of you magic be more somebody else gimmick. And people don't like gimmicks. They know it's, it's literally the opposite of what we all know. Everybody's talking about like you have to build trust, you know, you know what's the, the laws of like what's Kobe friends or whatever influence and friends. You know the one of the things.

Is Carnegie influence when how to win people and influence friends. Yeah, that one and one of actually from Carnegie. Like he's not from the famous family of Carnegie. His last name just is Carnegie.

Oh really?

So we have figuring out who you are doubling down on that to PR to create your brand, having these anchor touch points that prove who you are as your brand stand. So you've given some great examples from brands that we're all familiar with. But I'd love to hear some examples that you can share or maybe from your past company that you can share that are related to the trades.

The system that I follow to do this is I call it the fractal brand identity framework, FBI framework. It consists of three components which is your core belief, your core. A lot of people know that they need values but they feel like well, they're on the wall but I can't remember them. My people can't remember, your core values are supposed to define how to act like a person that believes X your core belief, right? So that's why people are missing out on their values too, is because they're like, I don't know, you have em, but they don't really do anything. It's because you don't have em pointing at anything yet. Once you point them at your core belief, all of a sudden they work perfectly. It's. And people, they start to. Because now you're articulating one idea, you're communicating one idea, which every good piece of communication is one idea. And then it's expanded on like, hopefully there will be one idea from this podcast and you know, and there's one idea to your overarching show as a whole. So most people, they pick seven core values, but they don't have one. They don't have one. And so, you know, if you have 100 things that you, if there's 100 reason to buy from you, but you don't have one, there's a problem, right? We need one. Because everything that, that's the glue for everything else. So your core belief, your brand personality archetype, there's 12 different brand archetypes. Again, people can go gret the, There's a workbook that they can. We don't have time to go into all of that in this. But, and then your, your brand story, and there's some components to that as well. And if you have those three things and your, your, your anchor touch points are part of your story, it's, it's actually mini stories like, hey, I got the cookie. So these are, these are many stories that are happening to essentially give the essence of who you are and what you're trying to accomplish and what your promise is and these different components about you. So that fractal brand framework, when applied, it really, it's, it's what the best brands have. And, and it's, and, and it can dramatically cut, you know, your marketing budgets, can dramatically help you to persist in the, the minds of consumers in the way that you want in your market. It can help you to be seen by the right team members. And when they come in the door, they actually know what you stand for and feel like they're going to work for a purpose. Like, I spent a third of my life here, I want to be happy and do something worthwhile, etc. So an example of, of that Happy Hiller Plumbing down in Nashville, one of the cool things that I, that I liked in there and I haven't gone through this exercise with Jimmy Hiller, but I would gather that maybe his brand archetype is the Everyman brand archetype. Humble, authentic, likable, relatable, down to earth, that sort of thing. Those are the traits of the Everyman brand archetype. And one of those things is when you have a problem thinking through the other person's suit, you want to relate to them. You're thinking through and trying to think, how can I do this in a friendly way? There's a lot of things that you could zone in and kind of get carried away on certain things. You look at this stuff and you're like, wow, how does somebody come up with these ways to take care of the people this way? But when you backtrack and you think through who they are and you think about the problem that they were trying to solve, it actually seems pretty simple on the back end, right? And what we do is we provide the system that makes sense. So it's like, all right, well, if. If we're trying to be friendly, we're trying to be authentic and humble and. And. And relate to people, and our guys sometimes come to work and, you know, maybe they. Maybe they did, you know, didn't, you know, get their teeth brushed this morning. Whether. Maybe they didn't put on deodorant, maybe instead of, like, kind of downing them and saying, you know, you really gotta get it together. It's like, hey, listen, you know, why don't you get. Get. You know, basically, it's right there. You can't not do it, right? It's like, oh, man, I forgot to do this. I'm gonna do it. And then. But that's gonna make them feel so much more empowered, so much better. They're not having people get down on them that, like, their partner for that day is like, man, you know, you gotta get it together. You know, they did get it together because they just had five minutes on the way into work that they could just, boom, do whatever they forgot to do. And to me, that is an amazing but simple way that someone can be more of them or that Hiller as a brand was more of them is that they showed. Like, if I went to an interview there, that would mean something to me. You know what I mean? Because I would see. Sure. You wouldn't think about it that much. It'd be kind of subconscious. But you would see it and be like, oh, okay. Like, you'd internally say, like, they care about people here. So sometimes you can do things that signal that Like a shift. Like, hey, pay attention. There's stuff going on here that's different here. Or maybe this is better, you know, you don't know why, maybe. But Brembo brakes has those red brake pads, right? Well, a one garage door Tommy Mello. They have red springs on their garages. And you know, I, I don't. Again, I wasn't behind the scenes on these decision making, but I would assume it was probably. There's a, there's five questions we have in that workbook. One of them is steal like an Artist. And you know, to me, I look at it like that's stolen right out of the Brembo type of book, right? It's like, hey, here's the key part that a lot of our customers are going to see and interact with when they have our product. That and the clicker, those two things. So let's. How can we make it more unique? How can we let them know that they did that they chose something that's better than the rest, you know, and so by taking those extra steps to powder coat those things red. That's a big difference. Like, people want red braid prads and maybe people will want the red springs as well when they come over and they're like, oh, oh, mine aren't red. And they're like, oh, yeah. Well, we hired this company and let me tell you what else they did. And also they named our, you know, yeah, we got the, the Timmy package because they named it after our kid. So you have three markets you serve. One is your, your team members. The. The second is the clients that pay you. So you have people that you pay people that pay you for jobs. And the third is that people don't. That you don't pay or pay, get paid for jobs at all, which is your community. A lot of people think community service like work at the soup kitchen, whatever. But. But what I look at community is like literally anyone that you come into contact with or you or your team while representing your brand. So that means by extension, when you go to a gas station, the gas station tenant is part of your community, right? What business do you know? Now think about how much our clients, you and I clients gas up these service pros. How many of these technicians are gassing up every day or they're getting lunch every day or whatever. How many of those companies have ever thought, you know, what's the craziest way that we could be friendly every single time that we meet people at the gas station while pumping gas or the gas station attendant that we See multiple times a week, like what's the craziest way we could be friendly? Because that's maybe one of our personality traits or maybe one of our personality traits is humor or whatever. Like. But whatever it is for you, it's like no one's asking questions. Like this is why I say questions are more important. Once you get these types of questions in front of your team, if they care about which they should because you're picking it, you're doubling down on the idea that's most important to you in life, you should see some things start to click into place. There's to where people actually want to help you build whatever it is you want to build. And it has nothing to do with money because ultimately, you know, at some point in America most people get enough money where they, they're looking for something else. And, and this can do that for companies.

Well, we talk about it, we talk about it all the time here. It's like, you know, you can be the most effective, you know you can be.

The.

People aren't looking for the cheapest option, they're looking for the best option. And so you know, you have to think about what you are delivering when it comes to your price point. If there's one big takeaway, you would like all of our listeners to watch for the trades to leave with. What would it be?

It really is the, the only thing that you have to get right fundamentally is your core belief. There's a couple things you have to get visually to represent it, which is your, your logo, your rap, your uniform and your website. Those are like, basically that's the, like that's the stuff you have. Those are the static things you have to get right when, as it pertains to your outfit facing things. But the fundamental stuff, I mean I would say really the whole fractal brand system which is comprises of three main categories and then kind of umbrellas down. But again all of that starts with one idea too and that is the core belief. But it's a three legged stool. So even if you can't figure out your why, but you figure out your personality archetype, which is probably the easiest one to do, that gives you so much more. You have at least one like your stool now that's articulated clear by the way. They're already there, you just don't have them. You just can't use them because they're not articulated and clear yet so that you can pass them along to your team. So it's like we're not making anything up. We're clarifying, articulating, and figuring out systematic ways to implement these things. So even if you can just get one of those legs, I. I would say it's going to be tremendously better. Now. It helps you to actually systematize all this stuff, whereas all like before, you just kind of winging it every single time you do anything. And so I think it better equips people. A lot of these business owners, they don't know why they can't get people to do things in a consistent, cohesive way or why the marketers, like I hire somebody, it always looks different from another designer website. All you have to do is just give them the framework. And if you could do that, it makes your life so much simpler and puts you on track to start to create that consistent, clear vision in the market for the right team members, the right clients. And yeah, all you have to do is be more of you. So I'd figure out at least one of those components of the fractal brand system, which is what's my brand personality archetype, which somebody can search that online, they can find books about that, what's my core belief, and what is my brand story? So.

All right, well, Ryan Kettering, thank you so much for being a guest on Toolbox for the Trades.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.