Healing the Hustle: A Guide to Confronting Burnout in the Trades | Podcast Ep. 294

Hello, contractors, and welcome to Toolbox for the Trades. My name is Jackie Aubel, and I have a very cool interview for you today. I am joined today by Nate Agentis, the VP of Plumbing at BDR, and we talked all about burnout in the trades, baby. One of my favorite topics, mental health. We talked about what a stage 4 diagnosis, a family business, and a COVID breakdown taught Nate about the real cost of success. I love this episode and I know you guys will too. Nate Agentis, you are the VP of Plumbing at BDR. Today, you and I are gonna be talking about a really easy breezy light topic, right? Burnout in the trades. Nate, I cannot wait to get into this. Welcome to Toolbox for the Trades. Thanks so much for joining me.

Yeah, thanks, Jackie. Looking forward to being here. Excited to discuss this and Yeah, it's going to be real light, pretty simple.

Yeah, real simple, guys. Easy breezy, beautiful CoverGirl. But before we get into the serious stuff, let's start off with an icebreaker like I like to do. So you've got a trip to Ireland coming up before we know it. What are you most looking forward to on this trip?

Oh, man, I'm so looking forward to it. Never gone international trip with my wife. We've done adoption internationally. We've done humanitarian trips internationally. We tried to go to Cancun one time, and our hotel caught fire. And we had to cut the trip short. So this will be our first, Lord willing, wonderful vacation internationally. My wife has always wanted to go to Ireland since the day I started dating her, and we're finally doing it, so I can't wait.

Amazing. Are either of you Irish? Is that what's bringing you there, or just—

My wife has that. She's got some Irish in her. Very cool.

Yeah, I haven't been, but definitely on the list for me as well. So I hope you have an awesome time. So let's get into what you're actually doing these days for folks that don't know. So right now you are the VP of Plumbing at BDR, and my understanding is you're You're basically teaching plumbing companies across the country on certain curriculums, KPIs, and strategy. So, for listeners who don't know who BDR is, can you tell us a little bit about what BDR does and how your role fits in there?

Yeah, thanks so much. Yeah, BDR is amazing. Business Development Resources. We're coaching hundreds of contractors across the country, helping them with their financials, helping with their software tools, coming alongside them and coaching, helping them grow the operations of their business, financial accountability, team development. Doing trainings throughout the country, speaking events. It's been—it's awesome. I love it so much, and it's really exciting to begin to just grow the plumbing sector. We've got a lot of plumbing accounts coming in, and we're seeing those businesses and those net profits and gross profits go through the roof, which is so freeing for some of these owners who are stuck in trucks or just feel like the whole operations are on their shoulders. And we kind of really help. create that plan and pave a pathway to get outta that and start growing their business so that it supports itself. And, uh, man, it's, it's life-changing for some people. It's, it's one of the greatest jobs in the world. I love helping lead the, the plumbing section of that.

That is awesome. And you are definitely no stranger to plumbing or the plumbing business. You were born into it. Your grandfather started a plumbing business, lost it. Your dad rebuilt it out of the back of a pickup truck. I wanna just hear all about what it was like to grow up in that world.

It was something. Yeah, it was. My grandpa lost the business, started it, came out of the Korean War, decided to be a plumber, had trouble paying taxes. And, you know, obviously the IRS comes around and knocks on your door at some point, and they did. And, you know, really set them into a spiral. They lost their home. My dad was like 19 at the time and had a pickup truck. And so he threw his cable machine and some tools in the back of a pickup truck and was like, this is all I know, this is what I'm going to build. And he was getting married to my mom. Um, I was born like a year later and, you know, my whole world that I remember is like, there wasn't a lot of like family life. It was like work, family was the same thing, you know?

Mm-hmm.

And just in the house, it started in my house and my mom was the office person and my dad was the technician. And then we had a couple techs and I even have memories playing video games with technicians on my couch when I was a little kid as they were waiting for calls. 'Cause that's so funny. And then, yeah. And so then it, it just, Led to, you know, went and we bought a building, but my grandparents lived in the middle of this building. And so then come home from school and go learn how to be a technician and then go eat dinner at grandma's house and we talk about the workday and rinse repeat that cycle Monday through Friday. And Saturday and Sunday were kind of your only breaks and took a long time to kind of grow out of that. Like probably 1979 to 1996 till we really kind of got a building with people and felt like a real office. It was great. You know, I learned everything from sweeping floors to being a technician on call and went to college for business and management and marketing and really got then into the insides of the business of teaching techs and learning how to hire and fire, all that, all that good stuff. So, yeah, it's, it was a great career, but it was, it was a lot.

Well, yeah, I mean, basically you're telling me that you were embedded into the business essentially right away. Like it was, you know, it's your, your earliest childhood memories. Like that's what you saw was— Your parents not really taking a break out of necessity. No. Most likely. Right. Crazy to have those at your early developmental years. And also what a, um, foreshadowing event for the main topic we're talking about.

Yeah. Yeah. It was a grind, right? Just an endless grind on my parents while I was in. And you just couldn't even escape it. Even at the dinner table on vacation, there was just no, there was no out. Right. It was just always, always work and They did their best to make it a home and a family, and I'm not knocking for that, but—

100%.

You know, if any, anybody out there that's running a trades business, they know exactly what I'm talking about. They're, they feel that, especially in those younger years.

Did you ever ask your dad why he was so, I mean, I think you mentioned it, you said like, this is all I know how to do. I'm gonna be a plumber. That's what your dad, after your grandfather lost the business, did he ever think about doing something different because, uh, your grandfather had such a rough time with it?

Yeah, my dad, he's funny. Um, you know, obviously we did 24/7 on-call as service plumbers. We did a lot of sewer and drain work, weren't scared of that. So dad was like always on call. So like baseball games, hockey games, most weekends, you know, you hear dad leaving at 2 in the morning. You know, maybe he would come home, maybe he would just stay out and start the day and I'd see him for dinner the next day. Very much that life. Well, when we finally built the business with a couple guys and had people helping him on-call, my dad decided, I want to be a volunteer EMT. And so he literally went into school and became an EMT that paid nothing. And somehow he was out again, driving around in an ambulance because he always wanted to be an EMT. And I was like, but it doesn't make us any money. And now you're gone again. So that only lasted a few years. I think it was like one of those bucket list things he had to check off in his life. Never could do it. Dang.

So, sidebar, I somehow knew a bunch of volunteer EMTs. That is crazy. You do not make any money, but they love it. It is like such— they love it. It is such like a— I don't want to say cult, but it is such a— the folks that are called to do it are truly called to do it. If you ever meet one in your life, they are. That's crazy.

It's like a dopamine hit too, right? They love that. Yeah. Saving people, helping people. And my dad loved that in the service business. That's why he thrived because, yeah, no, he didn't want to go out on Christmas morning to go help some— to leave the family. But like, he loved serving, saving the day, helping somebody out of a jam so that they could enjoy their Christmas. Great. And that comes with a cost at home a little bit though in the process.

Yeah, of course. Of course. So interesting. All right. I'm going to try to not address that EMT side quest as much as I can, although I'm So interested with it. So your parents, you know, they started the business shortly after your grandfather, uh, lost his, and around 1996 they had guys and they were building things up. And still your dad is running. It sounds like your dad was running the calls, mom's running the office. But then in 2012, your mom had a hor— a horrible cancer diagnosis that changed everything.

Right.

And there was no succession plan in place. So walk me through what that transition was actually like for you as You know, the son in the business.

Yeah, it was, it was really tragic. It's, you know, one of those parts of your stories that will always have a lot of weight to it. You know, it was just normal life, right? I was like 30, 31 at the time. I had 3 little kids at home. We were in the process of our first adoption. My wife stayed home and homeschooled and, you know, was really invested into the house. And so I'm working and we're, you know, trying to make money and get by and, Starting to grow that a little bit. And, you know, like I said, I was kind of out of college and more into the office working space, but it was still very much my dad's business. You know, everyone there were people my dad hired. I had some family members in there. People babysat me. Like, that's how long, you know, retention, babysitter. And so, like, you know, out of the blue, you know, the old, like, hey, can you guys come over for dinner conversation? We want to talk to you about something. And you're like, I don't know. Well, maybe it'll be something amazing, right? And it wasn't. It was, you know, mom's got pancreas cancer and it's stage 4 and, you know, the time's ticking. And that was like obviously hard to process just even as a family. And like, you know, okay, like, oh my God, like, what about your grandbabies? They're just here and we didn't bring this new one home yet and I want you to see 'em. And, you know, so that had just like a huge emotional baggage in play. And then like the next piece was like, oh, and— We're not going to be in the business anymore. We're going to be like going and healing and traveling and trying to find the best care and spending some quality time together. So like, you know, you're up. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, we'll give them— we'll, we'll, we're going to give this a run. And, you know, it was, it was rough because I mean, people that were your friends and people that you like worked alongside, now you're like their kind of awkward boss, but like, it's not like my dad's. Completely gone. So they're going around your back and questioning your decision-making and not prepared for the transition. You know, you can't blame them, right? Like if you're not ready for a leadership transition and all of a sudden some new guy's in, he's like, well, we're going to change the software because this thing's from 1999 and it's 2012. We need to upgrade and we need to change this plan and we need to do it, right? Like all those things, any kind of change just became like, who's this young kid? Coming in here and like trying to run the show. And so that created like a very difficult situation for me as I'm navigating that year in the business and mom ultimately passing in December.

Oh, yes.

And then, you know, dad came back in May of 2013 and said, I'm not coming back. Your mom's dream was always to open up a kitchen and bath showroom. We always did a little bit of bathroom and kitchen remodeling and they wanted like, you know, the running faucets in the shower and the, The displays. And so like, we did it. We, my dad and my brother, they went and we built this beautiful showroom and they worked that. And it was like my dad kind of fulfilling like a dream that him and my mom had that they someday were gonna do and never did. But there I was. Now dad's gone, mom's gone, my brother's gone, and I'm running the plumbing company by myself, which was just a, just a long, a long, long journey.

While also managing this really abrupt and horrible tragedy that hit your family.

Yeah.

And I didn't, we didn't cover this in your pre-interview, but adoption, like not only raising your own children, but adopting new children and that integration process. Like both of those things alone, processing the death of a parent and raising children and then bringing in adoptive, 2 of those are massive full-time emotional jobs. And then add to that, oh, and make sure that my parents' legacy, you know, still lives on. Still lives on. And I take on this leadership role.

Like, for sure.

Dude, like, yeah. props to you. And you grew the business. You did really well. You grew from about $4 million to $14 million, right?

Yeah. Uh, thank God. Right. It was super hard. Um, but I think what I quickly realized was I can't do this myself. Like, this is, this is outta my box to be able to kind of manage this little thing. And, Right person at the right time came along and he ended up becoming a good friend. And he came from like corporate America. He worked in like the data IT world and he knew like corporate structure and corporate systems and corporate organization charts. And so he came in and I was like, put my family plumbing brain together with that corporate brain. And here we go, off to the races. Like, talk about change. Like, we're rewriting everybody's job role. There's no more, we called it the Sandy, right? Sandy did everything. You know, and then when Sandy quit or Sandy called in sick, you're like, how many jobs did she do? She did like 75 different things, you know, and they try to fix that. And so we built departments and we built structure and we built KPIs and we started having business planning meetings and metric meetings, looking at financials. And that's something like I was never exposed to. And so it was like my college world, but the corporate world into this family business, like all coming together and starting to make sense. Once we got through some of those rough few months of like change, man, it was just like, holy cow, this thing is growing. We were like, we know how to fix problems. We see the department issues. We, we can highlight things and put focused energy or money on things until it's better and then move to the next one. And it just blossomed and bloomed and feels like a miracle, um, all the way to the end of 2024 when I actually had the opportunity to To sell it. And I did. And it was probably the best decision that I made at that time of my life.

Amazing. I just need to clarify, Sandy, was Sandy a person or was this—

Sandy was a person. She was the one that babysat. She was actually the one that babysat me. She was like our office manager. She like was our payroll girl, our HR girl. She got the mail, she answered the phone, you know, she counted the—

The MVP.

MVP, counted the petty cash box. Made coffee in the morning, right? Like I always joke around, I'm like, you can never, you know, you start, you start your business with a Sandy. You can never, you can't continue looking for the next Sandy. That doesn't work, right? We have to learn how to build departments and leadership structure around that. But it's just, it's funny. And if she could hear that, she would probably, probably laugh and completely know what I'm talking about.

Interesting. Yeah, it's so quick. So yeah, so you're dealing with all this personal stuff and now you're also doing what a lot of folks on the show have done before, which is take their family's business Into the next generation, the next, uh, millennium, the next decade. Like just embracing technology, embracing processes, which it's so great that you're with BDR to help coach these plumbers who are struggling with the same stuff.

Yep.

Um, and again, congratulations on selling your business because—

Thank you.

Dude, I, I, I admire every single person on the show who is on that path or has success on that path.

Yeah.

It's incredible. I wanna specifically get to, um, COVID, 'cause you mentioned that COVID really was, so like, so, and I also, I know, Nate, this is the first time you and I have met, um, but I have a mental health background and I'm like, you're telling me this story and like, I could see the pressure cooker like breaking and then, oh, once in a lifetime global pandemic that now has to change every which way your business, your technicians work.

Mm-hmm.

Also, you're essential and you must keep working no matter what. But also, please try not to catch this disease and die.

Or bring it into the office.

Yeah. So like, talk to me about how COVID kind of was this, like, was this, uh, turning point for you and really realizing like, I need to start focusing on my mental health and how I'm supporting myself and not just supporting the business and my family and all my other obligations.

Yeah, I think it's it's like the buildup, right? The the silent buildup, and I think we're talking about burnout today, and that's that's what it is, right? It's the the silent killer. It's not I did this one thing or this one thing happened, then I was burned out. No, that's not burnout. That's probably trauma, right? Like burnout is the secret slow decay that catches you, and I think you look at 2012 as the loss of my mom. 2013, 2014 by myself. 2015, I hired. This friend, we're grinding, we're building, we're growing, we're doubling, right? And that takes us, I remember we went out to dinner in like the end of 2019 because it was just such a great year for us. We like had these structures in place and like we were making really good money and like everything felt like it came together. Like I actually like had a flex schedule, like for the first time I didn't have to like come in 7:30 in the morning and work till You know, six, five, six o'clock at night, and it was just like we went to like the nicest restaurant. We had the same anniversary, and we just like pigged out on food, clinking wine glasses, great time, and just saying like, "Oh man, I hope we never have to do that again." And then this like whole COVID thing happens, and somehow I'm like have my office in my bedroom, and every day I'm fighting with technicians about wearing masks. Every day I have customers screaming at me because we touched their counters, and we we got sewage in places, and we're we're. in their home and it was just endless, right? Endless of like fighting your people, fighting your office staff, fighting customers and trying to create unity around all that saying like, we're trying to do our dang jobs. We're trying to help you. Like, we're not trying to kill anybody or die. Like that just like amplified. And I started to have like health issues and like I'm at home and then, and I'm like, man, something, something is off. Something is not right. At that time, I happened to be like, you know, there was nothing open. So, you know, church was online and all these different things. And I was connecting to this group and they started doing this book study on being emotionally healthy. So I'm like, oh, good time to start reading this book. And I'm reading this and chapter by chapter, there's exercises and it's taking you through like, how do the things of the past, how have you not healed from them or thought through them? Or looked at how they impacted your emotions, your thinking of life, your worldview. And as I was doing that, like that list I thought was just going to be like, oh, I'm just going to go back a year or two. Well, I went back a year or two, went back 3 years. I went back to mom. It went back to my childhood of like growing up in this environment. And it was like Pandora's box opened. Like I was like, went down some dark hole and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm in a bad spot. Like, I'm in a really unhealthy spot, right? Like, started just drinking more casually, like most people did in COVID. But like, you know, for me, that's not normal. But like, I was that, you know, doing that life and started questioning things of like, do I still have faith? Do I still want to be with my family? Do I still want to run this plumbing company? Do I just want to like get in a car and drive away and never come back and start all over? Like, really dark things. Like, That I've never thought before in my life. I've always been a pretty steady, even keel, deep values kind of person. And I was really feeling like that core. And what I realized is like, oh my God, I actually never healed and really mourned like my mom's death. I never like thought about like the cost and the weight of like growing up in family business and not having family life, not like Celebrating, like going on maybe one vacation a year, like, and the rest was just grind. Dinner tables aren't family talk; they're work talk about workman's comp claim, and we flooded this person's house, and this guy got in an accident. I gotta fire this guy. Like that weight, man, it really revealed pretty quickly to me, like how burned out and fried I was emotionally. Now was affecting me physically. affecting my mind and what I'm thinking, protect my choices in life of not holding to some of the values that I believed in. I think it was like an eye-opener of really learning like, wow, I, I'm, I'm stuck and I don't know exactly how to get outta this.

First off, thank you for being so vulnerable and so honest about some of those things. I guarantee you there's someone listening, at least one person who aligned a lot with all the things that you're saying. And I think talking about this is so important, especially from the entrepreneur angle, right? Because suffering is relative, right? But as an entrepreneur, you're in a unique situation where it's not just your livelihood that's at stake, it's all these people that you employ's livelihoods at stake. And I can, I've never felt that weight, but I can imagine that it must be tremendous. So, you found yourself like, oh, I'm not okay, and I don't know how I'm gonna fix this. Talk me through how you ended up fixing it and walking through it.

It's a great question because it wasn't one step, right? It was multiple steps of trying to unpack the layers of that. And I think a lot of prayer and meditation and started like talking about what I was feeling was like a new concept. I think one of the things I share in the trades a lot is like, it's freaking lonely. It doesn't matter what role you have, right? Like, if you're an entrepreneur, you're certainly lonely at the top. Like, there's no doubt. You hear that all the time, right? It's lonely at the top. But let's not act like it's not lonely for our guys, right? Like, they, they get in a truck and they disappear all day long, driving around a van by themselves, talking to strangers, dealing with everybody's problems, right? Probably on the phone with their own problems, dealing with their own struggles in that process. And they got nobody. Right? And day after day after day of that. And so like, you're not used to community, you're not used to finding safe places. Like you can't go talk to the next plumber next door and say like, hey, I'm having all these problems and this is what I'm struggling with. He's your competition, right? Like you're trying to grind to beat him. And so that lack of community is what like really starts to wear on you. And so that was a big part of it. Like, how do I start talking about these emotions? How do I start Getting to a spot in community, and so that was where it began. Right? Like in my own prayer life, that was my own personal reflection. Right? Going to counseling and really starting to have like neutral third-party person who thinks differently than you came differently, different place than you. I picked a specific counselor that was like very opposite of me. Right? And that's you know he asked why'd you pick me out of all the people, and I said because like. You don't look like me, you don't sound like me, you don't, you didn't, you didn't declare that you're, you know, these values. And so like, I want to hear a different perspective than what I have around me all the time because I need to be challenged, even if I don't agree with you. And that's not the path I had. I need to, I need to process different voices. And so, you know, and then like just being honest, I think we struggle with honesty. We struggle with saying I'm sorry. And I kind of began that kind of journey of like, Writing. I remember I wrote my wife like a ten-page thing and shared things that I never shared, right? And it was messy, and it was not the best. And but it was like real and exposing, and like helped us grow to like new levels in our relationship because like you're starting to peel those layers of authenticity and and and real and emotion, and and that's where healing kind of begins because you get out of that shame cycle. lonely cycle. And then doing this, writing about it in a book I wrote, doing podcasts, sharing it in my coaching journey, anywhere I can, I try to say like, man, like, let's just be humble and say like, we're human and we can't do it alone. And yeah, you messed up. I mess up. It's okay. It's probably fixable. But like, you gotta take some steps if you actually want to get better.

What an answer. I always tell folks that, uh, finding the right therapist for you is a bit like dating, and you really have to find one that works for you. And it sounds like you were really intentional in how you chose your counselor, and I commend you for that. And I think just talking about it, it's so often that we suffer in silence without sharing what we're going through. And it sounds like you also had tremendous support from your family too. And shout out to your wife, because I can only imagine what kind of— I don't think most marriages would survive some of the stuff that you're telling me about. And I think actually a lot of folks I've had on the show who have gone through divorces have alluded to that fact as much. So I just really wanna give you credit for figuring out a path. Yeah. It takes a lot of courage.

Yeah. And she's, she's good. She helps draw that courage out, right? She's my best friend. And that's what helps you kind of find that place of trust and be like, well, she can't trust me. And I can't be honest with her. Well, then this whole talking about it being real thing isn't going to work, right? Because like that's the closest person I got. And so did it with a stranger. Okay, let's start bringing it into the home and taking it one step at a time. And I think if your heart is to move forward and be better, not blame, right? Obviously, she's not perfect, and she affected me, and she's part of that story. My family's part of that story, and we could go down and be like, oh. If you wouldn't have messed me up and if you wouldn't be like that, then I wouldn't have this. That doesn't help anybody, right? That just breaks it all.

Yeah.

Where if we can just be real with one another and say, okay, we're both in this and we both need to fix this. And had some of those conversations with my dad. I remember we were on a fishing trip together and at dinner and weeping over the table and he's crying back and saying, I'm sorry, I didn't know my choices affected you this way. And I didn't know that I was doing that to you by leaving and being with your mom. That's not why— I didn't want to hurt you by helping your mom. But that was part of the story. And, but like, the only way that actually gets out is if we actually talk about it. And if we're not trying to be bitter or burn the bridge, well, then we can maybe move forward a little more healed, a little better, so that we can be better, pass that to our children, pass that to our employees, teach others how to go through it. And As humanity, aren't we all then in a better spot?

100%. And it's really wonderful that you got to have some of those moments with your dad. A lot of people don't get that with folks that they have really long-term relationships with. I will say that some lines that really resonate with me in moments related to what you're talking about are, nobody's the villain in their own story. Everybody's acting in the way they see best. And This is when I really started— I went to therapy school, but when I went to therapy school, uh, uh, this line of like, you're human, you're going to hurt people. That's just the nature of humanity.

That's right.

And acknowledging that no one is perfect. Everybody makes mistakes. A lot of those mistakes are unintentional. And understanding that is freeing in a way because it absolves you of kind of being a victim, but it also acknowledges And inspires humility amongst our relationships with each other.

Powerful word. I think that's the word, right, that we, that we're a little scared of, right? It sounds weak. It sounds, it sounds cowardice. It's like, you know what, you're not going to get anywhere in life, right? But like humility is like what unlocks the door. You know, we're coaching people all the time, right? And if someone signs up to call with us or coach with us, right, it's an interview process. We want to see if it's a good fit and like, One of the first things we're looking for is like, is there humility that like you want to change, you want to grow, you want to be different? If you come to us and you're like, everybody's the problem but me, if you could just go fix them, it's like we're not gonna get really far. Like it's not gonna work, right? It's gotta be a journeying it together. And I think humility kind of unlocks that box for us.

100%. I wanna walk through some of the things that you do with your clients as a per— because What a powerful journey that you're able to tell in literally less than half an hour. You built a balance wheel exercise that where you walk owners through all the points of life like friendships, health, finances, family. And you said nobody ever comes out of it with a round wheel. So talk to me a bit about that tool and why it hits so hard for the people you use it with.

Yeah, it's super fun. I kind of start off by—

It's super fun.

It is. It is. It's really fun exposing this. Like, like when it clicks in people's minds, it's so fun because like, I was there, right? And you just think like, I got it, I got, I'm doing good, right? Like, I'm doing fine. Like, I mean, like we all naturally think that no one's walking around like, my life is in shambles. Like that's very seldom the mentality. It's like, I'm doing good. And then like, okay, well let's, let's talk about that. Let's put that, let's put that on a chart, right? And it's a perfect wheel and it's a 1 to 10 scale and it covers all these different aspects of life from personal finance and friendships and support community and exercise and nutrition and vacation and all kinds of things, right? And then it says score 1 to 10, 1 being the lowest, 10 being like I'm killing it, or maybe I'm driving energy towards one and not the other. And it's just fun because when they come out with these wheels, like you think it's supposed to be a wheel and it looks like, you know, a Chinese star, or it looks like some sort of weird, weird helmet where it's like personal finance and things like that are all great, vacations are all great, and then it's like Rest, retreat, friendships, right? Like are all really low, right? Like marriage and relationships are one of the questions on there. And you just see such variety of answers. And I think when people put that in front of themselves, like you see for the first time, people really like getting a little honest and vulnerable because I make them raise their hands, which is great.

Mm-hmm.

And they, and actually they do it, which is even better. And then the more people do it, the more other people share. And we start saying like, tell me your high, tell me your low, right? We don't get all the details, but tell me your high, tell me your low, right? And people are sharing and then they're like, oh, well, I'm low in marriage too and I'm high in finance, right? Like, okay, so what's that teaching us, right? And it helps people begin to understand that like, we can't just, especially talking to like owners and technicians with goals and people that are like building their trades goals, like their business planning, they're shooting for targets, they They have a strategy, but then somehow when it comes to like our personal lives, we don't really have a strategy. We don't have our legacy built out. We don't have a long-term vision of like who I want to be and what matters most. It's always like, when I get over this financial hump, when I get to this spot, then I'm going to take my kids on that vacation. Then I'm going to be more present. Then I'm going to exercise and go to the gym. And it's like all those things. And then it's just always, you never get there. Right? It's just like the next one, the next one, the next one. And really what matters at the end of your life is in that wheel. That's really what matters, right? Maslow's hierarchy of needs talks about what we need as humans. As people, we know friendships and love and relationships and rest are so important, but then we don't plan and create a life around that because somehow we've been convinced if we just grind harder to build our business or build our career, then we can work on our wheel. And I can promise you, you just never get there. You will burn out long before you ever get to that, to that spot. And I think that's what my story is to try to teach you is you ain't gonna make it if you don't have that balance in your life.

Yeah. And to be clear, does anybody ever have a perfect wheel?

No. No, that's obviously the whole point, right? Like the whole point is how do you start looking at it monthly and start kind of using it as an accountability tool? And I say things like, hey, maybe you are going to work on personal finance and fitness. Okay, well, rest might take a dip, vacation time might take a dip because you're trying to build up your finances and you're trying to exercise because you're going to Ireland, right? No problem. As long as you've recognized that and that there's a timeline and a reason and a purpose for it, not just I'm wishing through life with no plan, with no endgame in mind. That's where it becomes such an issue. And I think the problem is that especially as business owners is we get so blinded and our identity just becomes, I have to create a successful business. I have to get over this hump. I have to grow this thing. Not if it burns you out, not if it destroys your family, not if it takes you early. Like, it's not worth it. It's just not worth it. And so we have to learn that we can do both at the same time, but we have to build out a legacy and a plan for our personal life and then bring in our business plan and start figuring out how there can be some harmony between those two. Um, not just all our energy and time in one thing.

One thing you mentioned in our, when we first chatted, is that a lot of business owners need to hear that you can still, you can build something amazing, but still lose what matters most. And that really hit for me. And it's just like, if you build a, you know, billion-dollar company, does that matter if you drop dead from a heart attack at 50 or you lose your family, to your point, or you have no one around you to celebrate? Uh, it can get, be really lonely.

No one wants to hear at your funeral, oh man, he made a billion dollars. He was so rich. He made the most, he had the most successful business. Like, that's not what, like, sure, that can be a small piece of it, but we want to hear like, he was a loving dad. He was a great friend. He was present. He made the most of life. He capitalized on time. He was a giver. He was a sharer. He was always available. Those are the things that like mean something. Not just money and success. And I think we, we just get so distracted in this culture and you watch an Instagram reel and you instantly feel terrible about yourself cuz somebody's flashing how beautiful they are, how much money they make. And you're just like, yeah, see, I'm not that good of a dad and I don't make that much money and I definitely don't have abs like that. And so I must be, I must be failing.

Yeah.

Yeah. What a, what a trick.

Yeah, I know. I mean, I, I'm a marketer, so like, I'll lie if anybody brings this quote back to me, but we should just all take our phones and throw them into the ocean. Okay? Like, and I also wanna call out that when you were doing this practice yourself, when you were doing this as a business owner yourself and like figuring out, you found that even when you were sacrificing all of your personal life for the sake of the business, it wasn't making the business any better. Right.

It just, it's a facade, right? Like, yeah, it's, it's better. It could be better financially, but that's not better, right? Better is when, like, one of the things I wrote in my book is like, what's the first steps? And like, a healthy owner is the first step because when the owner is healthy, when the owner cares about the harmony of life, when the owner cares about the legacy of his life, then that overflows into the culture of the business and you're teaching your people how to be that. If you're just grinding and burning out and sacrificing everything to make it happen, guess what you're subliminally telling all your people, get in earlier, work longer, work harder, make more, push harder. Like that, that's the message that comes out. And so you're not actually making your business better. You're actually just helping other people burn out because they're following your example. And I think that's such a dangerous thing when you have, when you've been given the responsibility to lead people and we don't even lead ourselves well. And then that's how we bring other people along. It's just very damaging and you can see it all across America. Just all across. Yeah, 1,000%.

All across America. Yeah, I do not think this is a trade-specific problem, but definitely one that is impacting the industries that this podcast speaks to and speaks about. And I, Nate, I'm, I actually, a bit of self-disclosure, I took a little sabbatical myself because I was burnt out. And I gotta tell you folks, not working for three months is super cool. It is super cool. Yeah, ten out of ten would do again. But like it's interesting to me. So I the day when we're recording this, I'm three weeks. I'm almost three weeks back from three months off, and the level of patience, the level I have more creative ideas. I am showing up. better for my team. And I'm gonna really try and work hard to make sure that what burned me out in the first place is hopefully not going to do the same thing.

Yeah.

When I was deciding whether to do it, I was like, there was this voice in my head that was like, you're lazy, you don't deserve this. Like, who do you think you are? Um, and I just encourage anybody out there to, who may really be struggling or aligns with what Nate and I are talking about to take some, to take the moment to collect your thoughts and think about what you really need because you're worth it.

Absolutely. I love that. Thank you for sharing that, Jackie. I think that's super powerful for people to hear. I think they need it, right? And it's not always the big things, right? It's a break. It's a pause. You know, someone asked me like, well, what were the big things that you did that were different? And I said like, I worked on sleeping. Like I worked on committing to actually sleeping like more than 5 hours, like going to bed on time, not always being in a rush to get to the office, like letting the team do its job and sleeping. And the second one is like having coffee with my wife in the morning before I leave the house and just sitting and drinking a cup of coffee and a patio outside talking about life and the day and starting it off. Like we never did that.

Years. That's awesome.

Years and years, right? Of just like, she's in bed, I'm gone. She's making dinner, I'm coming home. Right? And just that pattern. And it's like those little pieces, those little changes, they compound into something really special in life.

Yeah. Oh, I'm so happy for you, Nate. This— I couldn't have asked for like a better episode to do after my sabbatical. But thank you again for your honesty. Obviously, Nate Agentis is with BDR, so folks can find you. Anything else you want to plug? You mentioned your book. Do you want to mention the title of your book or anything like that?

Yeah, I mean, you're welcome to read my book. It's got a plumber pun to it. It's called Get Shit Done. It's called Build— Building a Lasting Legacy, uh, in your life. And it just teaches you about how to be a healthy owner, how to grow a business, the, the right structures to put in place to make that happen. A little bit of the things I talked about today and helping put some pillars in place for you that can maybe make your journey easier than mine was.

Love it. And you wanna know how I would, how I know I was so engaged in this interview? Because I did not mention the animal heads behind you once. For anybody who's watching on YouTube, just FYI, Nate's background is an eclectic, fun one. So enjoy that. Nate, thank you so much for joining Toolbox for the Trades. I really, really enjoyed chatting with you.

Yeah, thank you, Jackie. Appreciate it. Glad to be here, and it was great talking.