High-Performance Leadership: Get Your Team Rowing Together | Podcast Ep 216 | Toolbox for the Trades

Hello contractors and welcome to Toolbox for the Trades. My name is Jackie Aubel and today I am speaking with Katherine Howard, the head of Mergers and acquisitions at ler. Catherine is known for building high performing teams in the trades and helping brands unlock their full potential. I hope you love her authenticity and business insight as much as I did. Katherine Howard, you are the head of Mergers and acquisitions at le's Air. Today you and I are going to be talking about your mission in the trades. We're going to talk about how to develop high performers and we're going to tease an upcoming speaking event you have in Australia coming up in a few weeks. Welcome to Toolbox for the Trades.

Thanks for having me. That sounds great. I'm ready for it. Let's do it.

I am so psyched to talk to you. So I want to kick this off with a bit of an icebreaker. So I know you have quite a big sales experience. So tell me about one of your most memorable things. Sales experiences. It doesn't have to be in the trades. It could be in any of your previous careers. What is a memorable sales experience for you?

I know exactly where I'm going to go with this. Before I came into the trades, I think that I shared with you that my background was in direct sales and network marketing. Because of my colorful history. It's hard to find a job even if you're an intelligent person when you have a criminal history. So I did go into direct sales and network marketing and. And one of the first times that I made a lot of money was I was indirect sales and I sold. What do they call it? The good, the good words. They call it, let me think. Bedroom accessories. That's what it's called, bedroom accessories. So I was doing. And that was like old, like, like Avon, Mary Kay. Like you have a party with adult women and you pass out catalogs and all of that. And I going through some sales training on not selling on your own budget. And they had this like luxury, luxury product. And it was like a $400 bedroom accessory. And it was like medical grade silicone, a lithium ion rechargeable battery. And this was like 2012 before that was really a thing, you know. And so it had like all these different speeds. It was like the inverter, dual action, all of these things ergonomically designed. So it was hands free, you know.

You got to have it hands free.

Was going to buy a $450 bedroom accessory in 2012. We thought no one until I learned how to sell it. And I remember the first party I went into, like, I'm not going to sell on my budget. Someone's going to buy this. And I went really hard to sell that top of the line premium product. And the first woman into the ordering room ordered one. And along with the complimenting products that she needed for it, this huge order, and swiped her credit card. And I thought, I made it. In life, I can sell anything.

First off, that is by far my favorite answer to an icebreaker question we've ever gotten. I don't think I'm ever going to refer to them as anything other than bedroom accessories from now on. What a fun way to say that. And I just, I can't think of a better way to kick off the show. One thing you mentioned in your icebreaker that got me thinking, what does it mean to not sell within your budget?

It's a selling strategy that I still teach technicians today is that we often sell within our budget. We assume that they're buying on the same budget that we are, when in reality, you don't know the balance in their bank account, you don't know the availability on their credit line with their credit cards, and you don't know how they choose to spend their money. So when you're selling something, you need to present all possible options for repair or equipment replacement or bedroom accessories and let people decide how they want to spend their money and what, what budget that they're buying on.

Yeah, I think that's totally accurate. I have such a difficult time with that. I have my own life experience, my very unique life experience. It's so easy for me to project that onto other people, but instead you're really encouraging folks to flip the scri script and not make assumptions based on the way that they live their life.

Exactly. It's something when I, when I walk into a trades company and they're telling me, katherine, we're having problems with low tickets, we're having problems not converting new equipment sales. Can you help? One of the first questions that I ask when I get into a room full of their technicians is who owns their own home? And if you have a technician team where no one is a homeowner, you really have to teach them how to communicate with homeowners and sell with an open mind and present options that maybe they think are too expensive and your technician couldn't afford. And how do you communicate that with a homeowner? I think that that's, that's a great skill set that we teach technicians that I learned in direct sales, selling lotions, lubricants, and lingerie and potions accessories. Yeah. The tagline, lotions, lubricants, lingerie and bedroom accessories, accessories.

Incredible. Wow. I'm so happy I asked that question. So your name, your last name is Howard. You work at Leir. For anyone who has not put two and two together, you are Tom Howard's sister. So you've been, you know, you've known him all your life and now you work with him. One of the first jobs he gave you when you came over to LE was actually to build a support center in Armenia. And I want to hear all about that. Like, what were some of the biggest challenges you faced developing that international call center? And how did you overcome them?

That was the greatest, most fun experience ever. And it was challenging for all the reasons why you think opening a business in a foreign country where you don't speak the language would be challenging, but so fulfilling and so much fun. And really my first experience working with Tom, which has been an incredible journey and I really only have positive things to say, not because it's always positive, but working with my big brother has just been so much opportunity, so much growing, so much learning. And it really stemmed from the beginning. I had decided to move to Armenia. I was going through a divorce and I thought, you know, this country just isn't large enough for the both of us. And I had visited Tom in Armenia recently. He was there for Service Titan. And I said, I'm, I'm going to move there. I'll be quite happy there. I have this network marketing business that paid me every month my. So my dollars would stretch much further in that country. And Tom had said, you know, if you're going to go there, could you help me? Could you start this? And I said, yeah, it sounds like fun, but. And so I went to Fresno and I trained in Fresno to learn a lot of the different systems, policies, protocols that we had, how Service Titan worked, all of those things, so that I could go duplicate that at an offshore support center. And the reason why at that time, 2020, 21, it was really hard to staff entry level positions in California. I think a lot of California business owners can relate to that. During COVID it was just we were in a pandemic and it was difficult. So going over to Armenia gave us the opportunity to have their full time employees for lease that, that could work those entry level positions at a price rate that could keep our prices affordable for the homeowners who were also in the middle of a pandemic in California. Not just our employees, but our Customers too. So I didn't speak the language. I went over there, I had the greatest support obviously from Tom, who was a big help. And you know, we rented the apartment, we found some people who spoke English, we set up cubicles, we connected them to Service Titan and the rest is really history. It's been four years now, three and a half. And all of the employees who I hired still work for Lee's today and some of them actually just got visas on January 30th, so they'll be coming over to the US to do some training and things like that. Super, super, super exciting. I think that the trades has so much to offer so many people and there's nothing wrong with contributing to an economy that's not your own. And their opportunity for them to ear through American home service businesses and contributing to our operations has been a great partnership that we're grateful for and honored to have and excited to welcome them over to this country later on this year. I believe they're coming in April.

Nice. Congratulations. I know when we first spoke you were so excited about this. Are they coming just to kind of get extra training? Are they trying to immigrate to the US?

Nope, they're coming for training. They got 10 year travel visas so they're coming to do the training. Hopefully they can do a lot of Service Titan training while they're here. They can train with our teams here in the US and then take that back to Armenia and and make greater contribution from their office there.

Awesome. That's so cool. What was it like for you? Culture shock wise? Were you in Yerevan? Am I pronouncing the capital right? Yeah. So yes. What was that culture shock like for you?

It was a culture shock and I was there when the war in Ukraine started, which kind of was a division because Armenia and Russia are sister countries and the US and Russia are not sister countries. But Armenia is an incredible, incredible place. And it was intriguing to me to meet everyone who grew up in a completely different situation than I did. To hear that after the Soviet Union fell they had in the 90s one hour of electricity a day and nothing to eat and nothing to drink and nothing to wear. Where obviously the 90s here in California was much different, you know, much different experience to have people who are so different yet so similar. My youngest son, I think he was nine at the time, came with me and got to experience that, which I thought was most important because I believe in our culture we have this weird idea that differences equal, inferior or superior, when they don't, they just Equal differences. And actually, if you can leverage those differences and collaborate, you can have greater outputs to what you're doing, if that makes sense. So I wanted my son to learn that you can have relationships with people who are completely different than you. And that's really what globalization and a global mindset is, to take those differences and leverage them instead of rate them as inferior or superior and go with one or the other.

Yeah, that's great. I totally get what you were saying there. And so it's been three and a half, four years since you opened that call center. How have the LEASE customers responded to your international call center?

Oh, it's been great, actually. Where we're headquartered in Fresno has a massive Armenian community. So it's been exciting that they get to see that we're partnered and that we stand behind Armenia over there. I believe that Fresno is also as well as Sacramento and Los Angeles and Las Vegas and Phoenix. The southwest. Most of the United States is a melting pot. And so to overcome that. Where are you? Is this an offshore center? They respond with, we're bilingual employees of lease, how can I help you? And we've had a great response from that.

That's great. And actually, now that I'm thinking about it, because they're pretty. That's a pretty significant time difference. So that works out great for you guys with after 12 hours.

Exactly 12.

Oh, that's perfect. Yeah, that's gotta be great. All right. We can do this whole episode on how to build an international call center, but there's a lot of other things I want to talk to you about. When you started your network marketing career, when you were doing the direct sales, one thing that you me you did is that you built systems so easy that anyone could do them. So I want to hear how this prepared you for your career eventually in H vac sales and in leadership.

Yes, that was. I always tell people when I came to the trades, I was like, so we just pay everybody to come to work every day, no matter what they get paid. Yeah. And they're not, like, doing what we need them to do. Like, they're not following our systems and protocols. No, not always. And it was just blowing my mind. Because in network marketing, it's a volunteer workforce. And so to be successful, which I have, I still have a successful network marketing business. You have to have systems that are so easy, anyone can do them, because anyone can sign up yet so effective that they work. Because if they don't work and they don't produce revenue in sales, then they don't get paid. So they're not going to keep doing them if they're not rewarded. Right. So I was in the call center in Las Vegas, Las Vegas business. And I was getting ready to be done. I was just building and designing the call center there. And then I was going to head off and the service department was not doing so well. And I noticed the manager didn't have the motivation that he needed to get his team to operate on the systems that they were supposed to follow. And I thought that I could help. So I asked him, could I do a training for you? 30 minutes of your meeting in the morning and I'm going to go ahead and do this training. So I took what I had from direct sales and network marketing and I pulled together this morning. Meeting, training. I still remember what book I used, what chapters and what pages it was from. And I took it all to apply it to H Vac and plumbing. And I invited all the H Vac and plumbing people and all of the managers and everyone, will you come to this training? And I did it. And it was that afternoon they asked me to take over H Vac service.

Wow. Because you had this ability to just implement systems that worked and get everyone on the same page, it sounds like.

I mean, you can have systems, people have a lot of really good systems out there, but if everyone's not rowing together, if your team members aren't signed on and aligned with your vision, then, I mean, no one's ever going to work harder for your goal than they will for their own. So they need to understand how their goals align with your goals and then get them plugged in so that they believe in the system. They believe what they're a part of and that they're willing to follow you. And that's what creates a high performance environment. And I think that that's what I'm really good at, is creating a high performance environment. I can't take credit for anything that anyone sells on my teams. I think we have the number one salesperson in in a truck that I've ever heard of. He did 19.5 million last year. I can't take credit for a single dollar that he sold. That's his own exceptional talent and extreme work ethic. And what he goes out there and does every day. What I can, you know, help with and assist with and being a contributing member to our team, is remove the obstacles that stand in his way and create a high performance environment for the team that supports him so that he has an opportunity to thrive. And that's what you can do for all of your teams, for your plumbers, for your H VAC service technicians, for anyone who's responsible for producing revenue for your company, you have got to get them signed on to your vision so that they'll follow your systems, your policies, your protocols, the strategies. Because your systems, policies, and protocols are just makeup components of your strategy that you're trying to execute to get you to success. Right. And they have to be signed on to your strategy. And that's what we do in network marketing. And when they sign on and. And you can, they do it, we make great money through social media. Working from home. That's actually when I first took over H VAC service. So this was my first time leading a team in the trades. I'd only done network marketing. And there was a technician who said it was like our second or third meeting. And he was like, you know, I'm number one. I was number one last month and it was August, so you can see that I'm pretty good at what I do. So I, I think that you're great and all of that, and you can work with them, but you can see that I'm pretty good. So I don't think that I need your help. And so I looked at him in the meeting, we're in the meeting in front of everyone, and I said, with all due respect, your skill sets are exceptional. I think he had sold around $350,000 in H VAC service in August. But once again, with all due respect, in my free time from my cell phone, I sold more in weight loss drinks than you did in air conditioners in August in Las Vegas, and I'm fat, so what am I think there's some room for improvement. And he was like, whatever, it doesn't even count. It's not the same thing. But later he came to me and said, okay, like, what do you got? Tell me what you got. And then we worked together to create a high performance environment in which he could thrive. And By November, just 60 days later, he sold 750,000. So more than 100% growth in 60 days from one top performer. And when you, when you do those things, when you get them signed onto your goals and you're working together in a high performance environment where the people who are responsible for producing revenue for your organization have an opportunity to thrive, that's where the magic happens.

Yeah. And actually, okay, so a couple things. So you doing your own network marketing thing. It sounds very successfully. You came onto lease, you supported Tom with building the call center. In Armenia, you came back to Fresno and you eventually took over the H Vac service department after, you know, I.

Came back to Las Vegas.

Came back to Las Vegas.

Separate company. Yes, a separate company in Las Vegas that eventually we sold to private equity here. Then come 2024, returning to Lee's.

Got it. All right, cool. And I need to shout out that One of the H VAC salesperson that you were referencing earlier on who made 19 million, did 19.5 million in sales, that's Phil Flasky. And we actually have him on an episode a couple of months ago. So we'll link that in the show notes for anyone who wants to listen.

Yes. So I should correct myself. It was 19.7 million.

All right. We don't want Phil getting angry at us. So that is. That's good. Thank you for doing that. So you kind of already alluded to this. You know, you have such a passion for developing high performers and creating this culture of achievement and allowing people to unlock their potential. From what I heard, it sounds like you create this environment where your team members, your revenue generating team members know what the goals of the company are, know how the work that they do aligns with those goals, and they understand how they're going to be rewarded. In the process of helping you reach those goals, are there any other elements that you think are critical to creating a high performance culture and a high achieving environment?

Yeah, I think that you nailed it on the head with a lot of those right there. The one thing that I would add as being critical to the success of an organization is the personal development of those individuals. I see a lot of the different sales trainings that exist. They're, they're, they're good. There's a lot of good sales trainings about what you name your estimates and how many you should be offering and what order you should put them in and how much they should cost and how to overcome the specific objections when they come at you. The same objections we've been overcoming for 50 years now, there's a lot of that out there. But when it comes down to it, the people who are responsible for producing revenue for your organization need the professional posture to control a conversation for a desired outcome. And so their personal development is their professional development. We talked earlier in this podcast about selling on their own budget. If they don't own a home, and they've never been faced with a $25,000 ticket for an investment in their home, they can't quite grasp and wrap their mind around that. And when someone says that's expensive, they're going to agree because in their core belief system they believe that's very expensive. So I have a broader mission of obviously increasing the value of our technician position and the job so that they do make more like most of my technicians do, own their own home so that they can really wrap their mind around what purchasing, purchasing components for your home, like a new roof, like a new re pipe, like an H Vac system, and making that investment in a premium product and why you would make that investment in a premium product instead of just going with the bottom of the barrel. And so when you have these technicians who come in, and a lot of technicians in our industry, they come from different backgrounds, they come from all over the map. You don't know what their history is and what self image they carry on themselves with that. And if they do feel valuable, if they do feel the professional posture to control the outcome of a conversation or not. And so I think that a lot of times in our industry, like an H Vac, they have like you're the H Vac service technician. And then you get really good at being a service technician. And then, you know, you start flipping units or however it is to a comfort advisor or a salesperson or something like that. And then like once you get really good at being like the best fixer, you become like the manager or the salesperson or something like that. And the skill sets and characteristics of high performing salespeople aren't always the same as high performing technical technicians, the ones who are diagnosing the mechanical components on a unit. So you have to identify which ones in your, in your roster are going to be the best salespeople and what are the characteristics that those people have. They have to be coachable. Coachable. As far as what do you name your estimates, how, how much should they cost, what order do you put them in and how do you overcome objections? But they have to be coachable to up level in life. I need the A team. I need the A players. I tell my team, this is the big leagues all the time. If you, you know, are playing just to show up and get paid and go home. If you're playing, you know, for a participation trophy, please go work somewhere else. This isn't for you. And that means I need you to show up as the best version of yourself every single day. And so if no one told you that you're valuable today, I'm letting you know that like our technicians are our most valuable employees. I tell them every single morning on a platform wide technician Call that I host at 7:30am to constantly develop them to understand the customer acquisition costs before they enter the home so they know what we've done in order to support them and give them that opportunity to provide that revenue for their family, for their co workers who depend on them and for the community who depend on their services and their skill sets for what they use every single day to survive. So I think really that constant self development leveling up of the individuals who are responsible for producing revenue for your organization has been skipped. It's been skipped. It's not talked about enough and it's not focused on enough for the people who, who really want to grow a big business. There's there you can come and you can show up and be really good at sales and get to like, like 3 or 4 million a year. You can have an exceptional organization and get to like six or seven a year. But really when you're talking 10 figure technicians and we have more than one, they have to be aligned with a purpose that's much greater than themselves.

Yeah. What I was thinking about while you were talking and I'm really happy you brought this up because there are so many sales trainings out there. There's so many great sales trainings out there. I've talked to a lot of really respected and successful sales trainers in the industry, but I don't think enough talk about this developing. It sounds to me a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. Understanding what kind of stuff maybe junk in the head your technicians are coming to work with and how to help them overcome it. And this actually aligns really well with your personal mission. So why don't you tell me a little bit about that.

My personal mission I'm really excited to share with anyone who will listen is to create a pathway to prosperity for anyone who's willing to show up and work hard in the traits, regardless of your gender, your race, the country you were born in, or even your criminal history. You can win over here. You can make a viable income whether you like selling things or not. The skilled labor position is a very, very viable income as well. I have people in my company who are responsible for producing revenue and I have technicians who the thought of trying to sell something makes them physically ill. But they like fixing things and they're so important and so valuable. So the ones who are responsible for producing revenue, no, we need to sell at a high ticket price so that we can pay the people who really like fixing things to fix the things that we need them to do. And I really came up with this mission and really drilled down into it. I noticed when I started moving up within the organizations and learning in the trades and making connections that there weren't a lot of women. I remember being. I was in a vertical track event, it was October of 2022 with my brother, and I asked him, where are all the women? Is there a different event for them? And Tom just looked at me and he said, it's pretty bad. And I said, okay. And so I was so hell bent on at that point coming in. And I can help create a pathway for women to have an opportunity in these industries that are prosperous. And when I noticed that women weren't the only underrepresented community within our industry, I thought, well, we could really do something for everyone because there's an opportunity to make a lot of money here. I think we're only 8% black people in this industry, 3% women. And I like to throw it in there that immigrants you can win over here. I think they're a huge part of our industry, especially in California, Las Vegas, Arizona, where I do business. Criminals who have made mistakes in the past, who are looking to get their life together, you can definitely do it in the trades. And we have a lot of those people as well. When I talk to a lot of you do know my brother Tom, and he doesn't fall into like any of those categories, certainly not criminal at the end, but I do. And so when I talked to him and I shared with him, I think that there's a lot more of me here in the trades. A lot of success stories that come from these underrepresented groups. And no one's talking about it, like, hey, you can win over here. And look at all of these people that have done all of these things. And Tom told me, I think you're absolutely right. He's very well aware. And as soon as I started talking about it, I started noticing how many people approached me and let me know, like when they, when they started in the industry, they were undocumented immigrants and they were able to find work and a support system and get things squared away through the industry. Criminals who got out and were able to find a job and through that job learn skill sets that have led them into a pathway of prosperity and a lot contributing members of society, fully rehabilitated felons in our industry, we are just packed full of it. And I think that that's an amazing thing because these people have to go somewhere. And so I think it's great for women. I think it's great for minorities, criminals, immigrants. Our industry, we're trillions and trillions of dollars. If you're willing to show up and work hard, you can make it. Let's talk about it, let's be open about it, let's be honest about it, and let's welcome everyone. We're in a labor shortage right now. Anyone that wants to learn some skills and show up and work hard, I'll take you.

Amazing. I love this idea, the pathway to prosperity. And I've had several folks on the show who come from different backgrounds, come from a criminal background, and now have created so much success for themselves. But there's still, you know, you and I were talking about a story of someone who had approached you and, you know, shy, like, confess to you that they also had a criminal background, but they wanted to keep it really under wraps. So there's still definitely a stigma. But that being said, I think people who have something to prove, people who are hungry and want to improve their lives, they're going to be the best employees that you could ever ask for.

That's how I take it, 100%. And a lot of people that are looking for opportunities, a lot of people in those categories who have found opportunities in the trades but have been, like you said, too shy to talk about it openly. So if I can create the pathway to ignite conversation that creates a more inclusive environment in our industry, I am here for it.

Amazing. Well, with that being said, if there's anyone listening here who has, you know, you've already mentioned you have a criminal background. There's anyone listening right now who's kind of was. Was in the same situation you're in, or they're just getting out of it. What would you say to them if they're like, oh, crap, maybe I can be an entrepreneur one day? How do I do it? What would you say to them?

You can. You really gotta look at what are the criteria for these things. To be an entrepreneur, you've gotta have revenue that exceeds expenses. In fact, you don't even need that. There's some. Some people out there, the revenue is not exceeding expenses, who very much consider themselves business owners. You've got to be willing to commit to the change in your life and understand that your past doesn't define your future. It's the same concept that you have to talk to your technicians about every single day when you know it's the final weeks of February in H vac right now in California, in Nevada, in Phoenix, it's 70 degrees outside, outside of the Winter and it's just really, really hard to go call after call after call and get knocked down and get knocked down and get knocked down and get back up and get back up and get back up. But it's that mindset that you've got to leave the past behind you. And every time that you knock on another door, it's a new opportunity to do something great. And every day when I wake up, I'm excited for the opportunity to live and I don't want to waste that. And it was always kind of a struggle. Tom and I were raised by a single mom in the 80s. I was six years, 16 and pregnant long before it was a TV show back then in public high school. Once you show, you have got to go kind of left to a systemic fulfilling prophecy of poverty at that point, teenage mother, drug addiction that landed me incarcerated and was convicted of criminal felonies five separate times in front of a judge and had to live that life and get out and figure it out. And I wasn't going to accept defeat in that moment. And that's how I got into the network marketing and direct sales because I needed a way to make money, a way for income to exceed expenses and create some sort of business and income that I could control and that I could grow. That wasn't just punching in a time clock in and out, which there's nothing wrong with that every day. As long as you have the means that you need to survive and you trust the organization that they're going to be able to continue to provide that paycheck for as long as you need it. That's really, really important as well.

Well, what a story. I have had such a great time talking with you, Katherine, and I know that my listeners have loved hearing you as well. You're going to be at Service Titan's first ever World of Titans event in Australia, which is going to be Thursday, April 3rd to April 4th. It's being coordinated by the lovely Ellen Rohr. And you're going to be there, you're going to be talking. So if any of our listeners go to this event, what can they expect to hear from you?

Oh, I am so excited for Australia. I am excited to meet the business owners and the technicians down under and hear what's going on with Service Titan down there. They can expect to learn from me at the World of Titans event how exactly to create that high performance environment. I talked about to remove the obstacles for the people who are responsible for producing revenue for your company so that they can thrive at optimal levels. And produce the most amount of revenue how they can, you know, do 19.7 million in sales if you give them the right opportunity.

Amazing. I may be there. We're gonna see. But, Katherine, I. This event is going to be crazy. I've been. We've got a couple guests lined up in the next few weeks who are also going to be at this event. So if you guys are going to be around Sydney around that time, I really encourage you to go. Katherine, I had such a great time chatting with you today and getting to know you a little bit. Is there anything we should have talked about that we didn't get a chance to.

No, I think that we've got it covered. And like I said, they can find me on social media. I keep them updated every. Every day with what's going on in the world of Le and Katherine and my life and so they can find me there. Feel free to follow me, shoot me a message. I might get back to them as soon as I can.

Amazing. Well, Katherine, thank you so much for your time today. I know you are a busy woman. Really appreciate you coming on for Toolbox for the Trades.

Thank you so much, Jackie, we'll see you later.