Hire Smarter with These Recruiting Tips | Podcast Ep. 80 | Toolbox for the Trades

Jody Underhill, you are the founder of Rapid Hire Pro. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Welcome to the toolbox for the trades.

Thanks, Jackie. I'm excited to be here and hopefully share some nuggets for those that are the service titan users to be able to utilize in recruiting.

Trust me, this is one of the hottest topics on the podcast. So I know we are going to get a lot of great information and my audience will be very grateful for it. But we are going to kick off this podcast the way we do every single one, which is how did you get into the trades?

Right, so it kind of was happenstance. We didn't like start off with, oh, we're going to go into the trades and do recruiting. I worked for the power company in Florida for about 26 years. In my mid-40s, I decided I don't want to do this anymore. I want to go out on my own. I was an executive and decided to leave. Started a marketing agency, very successful doing that. And about a year and a half ago, we had a client come to us and said, hey, I've been doing, I've been doing recruiting in the trucking industry and but I've over promised some stuff. Can you come in and help me figure it out? And so we came in, we put some solutions in place, kind of turned his business from upside down to right side up. And so we started doing recruiting and trucking. I was like, hey, this is actually easier than doing, you know, doing regular marketing and there's a big need for it. Well, about six months in, my wife reached out to a buddy of mine, Tommy Mello. It's funny, I met him and my wife the same day at the same conference, but so she's known him as long as I have. She reached out and said, hey Tommy, if you need guys, you need to check out what we're doing in trucking and see if you need people. We could probably do that for you with your A1 garage door, which is what is his company. He's like, yes. And the next week we flew out to Phoenix and we sat down, looked at whether we're doing the recruiting, see what we could put in place to do that. And long story longer, after we did that for him successfully, he started telling people about it and about just bottom line, about three months, three and a half months ago, we started doing recruiting for recru trades in general. Everything from handymen, electricians, plumbers, H vac technicians, you name it, and have been, you've been, haven't looked back since then, because there's such a need right now in every industry, but especially in the trades, 100%.

And I'm glad you mentioned your start with trucking, because I know trucking also has a bit of difficulty in hiring and retaining folks. And there's a lot of stuff there not quite the same, but not quite the same. But definitely similarities between that in the trades. And speaking of Tommy telling people about you, he called me and was like, jackie, you need to have Jody on your podcast. You need to. And I was like, okay, great. We had a chat. And I was like, yep, you've got some great stuff. I'm excited to share your insight with our audience. But before we go into that, I would love to learn a little bit more about, you know, your particular case study with Tommy. Like, tell. Talk to me a little bit about, you know, what Tommy's problems were and how you helped him overcome them.

Sure. So when we first started working with him, we. So we kind of walked in to sort of to sit down because like I said, we've known him for a long time, we're friends first. And kind of sat down, said, let's look at what you're currently doing. Because everything we were doing in trucking was. Most trucking companies, they use like hiredriver.com hire a CDL, maybe it's 10 street and driver's reach and different networks like that. And what we did is we were doing recruiting specifically through social media, only using social media for recruiting. And so when we went and sat down, everything that. The main thing, the main thing they were doing with A1 was recruiting through Indeed and also using a third party app, posting it, and then posting on Indeed in some other places. So that's the main place that the app, the people were coming in. And whenever we're talking to him, he's like, you hit me at the right time. I want to have 25 people in every one of my classes every month. Because he hires 20 to 25 people, new technicians a month. He's growing very rapidly. And he said, this month I have as many trainers as I have as I have trainees in the class. I've got seven trainers, I got seven students. He said, I need help with this. So I said, all right, let's see what we can do. So we took that, we created the ads, started running them on Facebook and Instagram, and started bringing the leads in. And basically what we've done is in that length of time, in the last six months, we brought in over 150 people for a one. Now that's not just technicians and installers. It's, you know, experienced technicians, experienced installers, apprentices, but also, I mean, we brought in an HR director, a, a marketing, marketing director, a videographer, you name it. He also owns door 48 where they manufacture doors. So we've hired finished carpenters and metal fabricators. So it kind of runs the whole gamut as far as the people that we're hiring. But all, you know, for A one, he also owns a, his own wrap shop where they wrap vehicles. We've hired vehicle wrap installers. So it kind of works across the board no matter what the job is doing it. And here's one of the reasons that, that we feel that it's so successful is because when you're on Indeed, there's nothing wrong with Indeed. Indeed is great. You can get great quality people and you should never stop using Indeed. But the only people you're getting there are the people who are going to Indeed. What we do with social media by putting the ads in front of people, what are people spending their time doing? Jackie? They're on social media, right? They're scrolling. We want to stop the scroll. Put it in front of somebody whenever they may not necessarily be going and actively looking. Because as statistics show, about 74% of job seekers are passive job seekers. Meaning they're not actively looking, they're just scrolling. And if they see something, they might take a chance on it.

Got it.

And that's sort of what we did. So the case study is around 150 people in six months.

Not too bad, not too bad at all. And I know everyone listening right now, their ears are all perked up. Quick sidebar. Whenever I hear what Tommy's doing, I personally become physically exhausted. So I have no idea how that man does it, but goes to you for helping him hit those goals there. And especially all those different levels from installers, truck wrappers, metal fabricators, office folks, videographers. That, that's insane. So kind of going off that point you just made about how, what was it, 74, 75% of folks are passive job seekers. Your whole hiring philosophy is based off the fact that it's an employee market right now. How is this affecting owners and operators in the trades who are desperate for talent?

Well, the main way is affecting it is it just, it comes down to marketing, right? Time kills deals and no matter what the business is. And it used to be that whenever it was an employer's market, you could, people could wait. You could wait to a week, two weeks, because they were people wanted jobs. If you look at it now, anywhere you look, I mean go through the drive through McDonald's and they've got a big sign up there, a big marquee, a $400 sign on bonus, you know, college tuition, 15, $16 an hour. You know, it's you go anywhere you go, it's, you know, no hiring. The thing is, is that business owners are busy running their business, I get that. And their staff is busy running the business. But what's happening is the delay to interview taking a long time to go through the hiring process. Now you should definitely make sure that you're going through qualifications with people, but you can't make them wait anymore. You make somebody wait two weeks for an interview, they're gone. Right now the average company is taking 42 days to hire a new per a new recruitment. And the top talent can get a new job in 10 days typically. So that's the biggest thing is whenever you find somebody that looks like that, they check all the boxes and that you really like to have as representing your brand as part of the team. You gotta move quick because if not, they're gone to the next opportunity 100%.

And I love that you talked about that McDonald's example there, what all the things they're offering. We're going to get into that in a second. And actually when I say a second, I mean right now because that's the next question I have for you. So what are the top things that hiring managers in the trade should include and their job postings?

Right. So if you think about it, and this is kind of, I'm going to talk in general, I want to unpack it a little bit if that's okay. So, so, right. The way that we've always been able to market for employees, we haven't really had to market for them, right? We just. It's called a want ad, right. We put it, it's help wanted. You put an ad out, it's like this is the job. If you got this skill, this skill, this skill, skill, rather go ahead and apply. Well, that doesn't work today because what people are looking for are what are the reasons that I should come to work for you? Not what is the job and what do I have to have? It's what do you have that's going to cause me to want to come work there? So instead of leading with the requirements, leading with the reasons that they should come work for you? What are the benefits, what are the pay, you know, what are the, what is it what do you have a sign on bonus? Well, those all seem like the most critical what we're actually finding today. Especially because it's a little bit different environment than it was even two years ago. I mean there are material shortages in some industries. Do you have a good supply chain? Do you have supplies in place that they're going to be able to stay busy working? Especially if you do performance use performance pay? Do they. How old are your vehicles up and running? I know I've had countless conversations with people. It's like I made the switch over because there's new vehicle, I can take it home and I get a gas card. I don't have to drive 45 minutes into the yard every day to get my vehicle. I'm able to take it home. I'm given a gas card so I can start rolling on tickets the moment I get in my van in the morning and go. That gives me the ability to make more money. So I mean the big thing is you have company vehicle, you can take home, gas card, little things like that that weren't really that big of a deal before. It really is now because in the trade you're not going to be able to work from home or work remotely. But the next best thing is that you're able to walk out the door, get in your, get in your, your vehicle or your shop, for lack of a better word, your shop is sitting in your driveway. You go to the shop isn't driveway, you get in it and you start running tickets. And when you are able to finish up for the day, you finish up in, you don't have to drive, you know, half an hour home when you're done. Those are big deals. People ask me about 401ks, yes, it's important, but it's not the one. It's not one of the driving factors. Probably 5% of people maybe ask about it. But it is one of those, those things that you know that really need to be there. But for the most part, you know, what is it that's going to cause someone, if you're looking for experienced people especially to leave where they're at and come work for you and positioning it that way so you're really marketing for employees. I mean, go ahead.

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

I was going to say because if you think about it, you don't advertise for clients, customers going hey, if you've got a three bedroom, two bath house, you pay your bills on time, you have a, you have at least a 700 credit score. And your air conditioner's broke, give us a call. We want to. We want to come fix it for you. But that's how most people advertise for employees. Like, if you have two years experience in this certification and this certification and a good work ethic and communicate with customers, great. You go ahead and apply where it has to be. You know, we arrive on time. We do. The way you advertise for customers is how you have to advertise for employees is the main point.

I mean, it's very simple and makes sense when you say it, but I can totally see how if you're busy running your business, trying to make it profitable, trying to keep your. Your current techs busy, you can't. Like, it's just a total mind shift. And someone like yourself coming in and being able to provide these little tweaks can really make a difference.

Yeah. And the thing with that is, is that it's. And it's what we do, Right? So I said, I did marketing before, and we didn't set out. As a matter of fact, if you look, read about us, I said, we're sort of an odd duck agency. We never set out to do recruiting. We never thought our superpowers could be used for that until somebody. Until somebody came and said, hey, can you help me? And that's sort of how we got into it. But now I'm looking at it and the fact that we're in. We're in the trenches every day. So we see what's happening. We see what's getting people's attention, what's causing them to apply to one company versus the other. And especially whenever it comes to advertising on social media for jobs, it is so very restrictive, Jackie. I mean, it's a special ad category to begin with. And you can get ads rejected. You can get your entire ad account shut down very quickly because they do look at it. It's not just, oh, it's not just a little mistake. It's a discriminatory practice. They are accusing you of discriminating. Whenever you ask a simple question on your lead form, like, what city do you live in? That's discriminatory. You can't. You can't discriminate. You can't. So you can't ask those questions and little keywords. For instance, we've had ads shut down for violating network marketing or mlm. Not anything against network marketing, mlm, but evidently Facebook does, because there are sometimes they look at as being unsubstantiated. Unsubstantiated income Claims, but having the wording, excellent income opportunity that'll get your ads shut down in a heartbeat because those are the words that people use for network marketing. I had one. This is. Wasn't in the trades, but it was in trucking. It was a feel good story. It was one of the. We ran it because this lady was during COVID and her son was not able to go to school. She was on the road. She, her mother was not available to watch him. So because he was doing school remotely, he was able to go on the road with her. Right? He was able to. And so we did that and there was a picture of her and her son, who's 10, standing out by the truck. The ad got shut down for violating the policy on dating ads because it was a male and female in the end. So you have to be. And the thing is, is that they reject it and they don't care. I mean, you got to go through a long process to get it approved. Fortunately, because of, you know, how much we do, we're able. We now have a person assigned to us. We're able to get things moved through. But it's just those things, whether you're doing it yourself or having someone do it, being aw of that. That's why it's always a good idea to create a separate ad account to run employment ads versus ads for clients and customers. Because you don't want to let anything that you're doing for recruiting impact what you're doing to bring in money for your business.

I'm so happy we went on that tangent. So my background, I'm in marketing, obviously, and my background is in social media. And I predominantly worked in organic social media. I've done a bunch for Service Titan and I have got. I've never in my life posted any type or boosted any post about hiring at Service Titan. And I've gotten flagged for that. Like this isn't hiring, that it has different standards. So I'm glad that you, you brought that up because some people may hear your takeaway right now and say, okay, great, so I'll make some posts on Instagram, Facebook and I'll boost them. Great. No, there is a whole different layer of complexity when it comes to hiring to make sure that your ad is in compliance with various laws and regulations, especially on Facebook, which does own Instagram.

Right, right. I'll put it this way too. I mean, it's a special ad category. The same as financing, the same as it being a political ad. I mean, so it's under so much scrutiny. That you have to make sure that what you're doing, I mean, and if you put on there I had one that was an ad that got disapproved or rejected because I mean it was a company that has a, a very hot top end pay on their sales positions of like $260,000 a year. It got rejected for an unsubstantiated income claim. You know, it was a range of 150 to 260. We couldn't run it that way. We had to make it because we had to make it less than that, less than 200 in order for the ad to even be able to run. It's kind of crazy actually. So you never quite know what's going to happen. And we have seen ad accounts from that we've worked with clients whose ad accounts were completely shut down because they submitted an ad, the same A.D. two or three times thinking okay, finally they'll do it. And they look at that as that you're trying to circumvent their ad approval process and they always completely shut down your ad account. So there's some things there that you have to make sure. And thing is, if you just do what's natural and don't try to scan the system, it should work okay. But just be aware that there are things that will trigger those things to happen in social media especially.

Got it. Thank you for that really good learning and tip there. So going back to the actual job posting, what we use to attract different members or different positions rather, how would you tailor a job posting for say an office position or management position compared to a field tech position in the field tech example you gave, hey, we have performance bay, we have new trucks, you can bring them home. What about for the other roles within a business?

Right? So with those roles, it's looking at what makes it attractive. And here's one of the things that keep in mind is that if you're running an office position, you're going to get the question every time. Is this remote? Can it be remote? Is this, can it be after hours or part time? So be, you know, make sure that you post, you know on your ad that you know on your, on the information that it's in office position, they'll save you a lot of time, effort, energy, answering questions, is it remote? Because they feel like, because today's, with today's environment they really feels that they should be able to do that. But understanding in the trades you really, a lot of times you want to have the CSRs, you want to have the dispatchers in the office as well as your HR person or your payroll clerk, that kind of thing. But the way, the positioning that is the benefit of. Is there a, basically a route of progression of where they're going to get to in the business and what is the, what is the work environment going to be? So whenever it comes to the office job, you know, it's not the take home truck, it's not the, it's not the, the supply chain there. It's more of the working conditions in the, in the, in the building and what they're going to be dealing with. If it is remote, great. People love that. And you'll get a ton of, a ton of applicants. But other than that it's, they're more focused on what are the benefits. Do I have health insurance, Do I, do I have vision, Do I have dental? In those cases, a lot of times they are more interested in the 401k than say a technician might, might be. And so it really comes more to the benefits package more so than the truck or the gas card and that type of thing. So that's, that's kind of what I would go with that.

Got it. It's really interesting how, I mean you mentioned earlier that the hiring landscape is so different just even two years ago, because now we're dealing in a post Covid world where essentially every business was forced to adopt some level of remote operations. Would you say that that is just completely change the outlook of most office employees that are looking?

Yeah, I mean, because they, they look at it as well. It worked then, why won't it work now? Why can't we do that? It's one of the things. This is completely off topic, but I live in South Car in the northwest corner of the state. It very rarely snows here, but when it used to snow, I mean like two weeks ago, it snowed 6 inches or 8 inches rather. Usually that would have shut school down for a week. Guess what? No more snow days. The kids, they did virtual learning the year before. Now there's no snow days. They just do virtual. They just convert to virtual learning. That's where the employees sometimes feel that they should be able to do that. So it does allow itself. Whenever there's something, something happens where they may not be able to make it into the office, there may be some flexibility. One of the positions we just are running for one company is a ratio of in office versus home versus in home time. Putting it that way that half the time they can work from home and there are times they have to Come into the office. But everybody expects it to be, especially for those office type positions. But you're the owner of the business. If it's not a remote position, don't feel like you have to make it a remote position. There are advantages of people coming into the office so that you can make sure everything is what's happening with them. So you make the decision based on that, but just make sure you clearly communicate it in the ads. The other thing is clearly communicating, as you're having conversations with them, exactly what to expect with their hours. You know, they're going to work weekends or nights or anything like that. A big thing. A lot of we're seeing a lot of companies do that are going to a no on call, putting that on the ads, that there's no on call, that kind of thing.

Very nice. I made this joke when you first told me that snow day anecdote. And I'm gonna make it again because I love it. But snow day is definitely one of our many cultural casualties of COVID that I feel bad for today's children. Anyway, so moving on, we talked a little bit about how long the recruiting process should take. Like with a good candidate, they're usually nabbed up within 10 days. How do you think owners in the trades should potentially reorganize or rethink their hiring process to accommodate for this employee market?

Right. So one of the ways of doing that is identifying what's going to make someone qualified quicker than not. One of the things that we do in our process is we institute a video interview, meaning not like a zoom call or like what we're doing here, but actually it's a going where they go and there's an intro and they answer questions on video. One of the things that can. How that can speed the process along for owners is they're able to see what the person looks like, how they engage, how they interact and how they communicate. Because, I mean, let's face it, granted, they need to have the technical skills to know how to fix the AC or the electrical or the plumbing. But as a technician, especially service technicians, they have to know how to communicate with the customer. They have to know how to sell the best solution to the customer. It's not just, hey, I'm here, this is broken, I'm going to fix it. It's here are your options so you'll see what they look like. Did they take the time to actually make sure that they. What was in the background in the video? You know, they had one where the guy actually didn't realize the camera was on and he fired up a one hitter in the video. It's just, you never know. I mean, what's going to happen. We have one where the guys doing the video driving down the road and his kids in the backseat, not in a car seat. It's like, just please don't break the law. But those are so, those are anomalies. That's not a very average thing. But you do want that. You have people that don't even know that they do the video and they're laying in bed. It's like, is that really the type of person that you want to have representing your brand? And you're able to just basically you're able to identify as someone that you feel comfortable representing your brand so you can move to that next level, that next stage rather quicker. But it is. Map out your process. What is it? I talk to a lot of companies like, well, we, we get the application, we call them and talk to them. If it sound pretty good, then we have them come in like, but what is the process then? You know, go ahead and map out the structure of what that process is to identify ways that you can automate certain steps of it. The more that you now are not saying that make it impersonal, it still can be automated and still be very personal, but you want to make it so that you can move them through quicker. Go ahead and put some thought behind what does cause them to be qualified versus not qualified. You know, is it, you know, it's making it so that you can get them to that point also, you know, are they, whenever you're going to do background checks, you're going to check the motor vehicle report, Go ahead and have those pieces where you can do it a little earlier in the process rather than after you provide the offer letter. You know, make it where you have everything happening at once and move very quickly through the process. And keep in mind, I talk to people that are like, how soon can we get someone in here? And I'm like, that depends. Do you want somebody that's standing in the unemployment line that's ready to go to work tomorrow that probably isn't working for a reason? Or if you're looking for experienced help with experienced technician or installer, more than likely they're working for someone else. You want them to give notice and treat the employer where they're at, the same way you would want them to treat you whenever they leave you. Because the bottom line is, it's like I learned this watching Mad Men. The Don Draper Talking to. I think for Peter, when he lost the Lucky Strike account, it's like he was all upset. It's like, look, you start losing a client the day you sign them. Eventually everyone leaves. You want them to leave where they're currently at, the way you would want to have them leave you and making it so that it's not so. Keep that in mind. So the time you look at, they're a great candidate, it's going to be three weeks, three or four weeks before they're in a truck running for.

Got it. So Tommy Mello has this. That has this theory that I've heard echoed a lot in the guests I have on this podcast, which is you should always be hiring, even if you don't necessarily have a position. And I'm curious, do you agree with that viewpoint?

Yeah, but the reason I do is because it takes a length of time to get there, to get somebody onboarded into that process. But it also gives you the ability, and especially now with the day's work environment, I mean, two or three years ago, people talked about top grading, right? You know, getting rid of the bottom 10% or whatever, just move, you know, staying with the top people, it's getting harder to do that. Well, if you're always hiring, whenever you're bringing someone in and you're in a position that you would be able to start to look at top grading and do it on a more systematic basis rather than. Rather than doing it as soon as you find somebody, always, it's kind of like instead of ABC to always be closing, it's always be hiring. And I hear that a lot. A lot of business owners say, well, if we find a good person, we'll always take them. Well, the only way that you're going to find a good person is if you're always looking at candidates, if you're always having applicants coming in so that you can then have that. Now, the flip side of that, it's always great to keep building up the leads there because you never know what time it is on someone else's watch. I'll give you an example. Whenever someone comes in, they come in from a Facebook ad, they fill out the information. We immediately send them a text with a picture of the ad and some information with a link to go officially apply. But unfortunately, not everyone does immediately. Some people look at it. They're just not quite ready to take that step. So we put them into a nurture sequence, and we nurture them for about five days with emails and text messages, and we put little emojis and stuff in the text messages to make it entertaining and more like marketing. And we do a couple of voicemail, drop a couple of voicemails on them. But after five days they haven't responded. Then we move them into, and we move them into what we call a nurture sequence. And we nurture them. We send them something about once a week instead of every day. We have people that are in class right now, the February class at A one that applied, they came. The lead came in the first time in October last year. But it just, they weren't quite ready. We have one that's like he came back in. It's like, hey, I'm ready to talk to someone now. It's like, well, but you sent us a message that said that you, you're taking another job. And they're like, yeah, well it didn't quite pan out. So I want to, I'm ready to take a closer look at this now. So when, if you, if you weren't always hiring, if you just, it's not like a faucet that you can just turn on and off if whenever you have it kind of them trickling in, you don't have to spend a ton of money. You can lower the ad, spend per day so that you have some leads coming in every couple of days so that you can then find those people. And if you do have someone you want to top grade, you've got someone there to look to look to.

Got it. I love that what you just said of you never know what time it is on someone's watch. That is so appropriate because I would imagine, as you know, taking, taking off my podcast host or hat and now putting on my Jackie as an individual employee hat, I may be very happy where I am, which I am very happy here at service day and thank you. But you never know what may happen. Perhaps I need to move to another state. Perhaps I need to be closer to family or need to move somewhere with a partner. And all of a sudden I can't work in California anymore. But I've had these folks kind of reaching out to me. Oh look, my circumstances have changed and now we can have this conversation. So I love that you're hammering home the nurturing of these potential clients even after they've, they've left that five day window.

If you think about it, what do you do with clients that came to come into your funnel? It's a sales funnel. I mean in this day and age, there's not many people who haven't heard about, heard of A sales funnel. Right. Because it's, you know, it's basically every, every business has a sales funnel. I don't care if it's a sandwich board on the sidewalk. That's, you know, that's the entrance into the sales funnel. Right. So with, with the trades, whenever someone puts their information in about getting something fixed or they're looking for, you know, they're looking for getting a new H vac system and they don't make the decision right now. You don't stop talking to them. Right. You move them into a nurture sequence you have so that you can continue to send messages out to them. I know inside of Service Titan, if a job is a no sale, it doesn't just die. Right. You know, there's notifications, so they can go, they can go back and look at it and see why it didn't close and start talking to them again. It's the same thing with these employees if they don't do it right now. So it's just, basically it's, you know, it's again, nurturing them, treating them like you do a customer and bringing them through that process.

I love this mind shift. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

No, no, I was just going to say. So it's just, it's a, a matter of just continuing to stay top of mind. That's really what it comes down to 100%.

And I just love this mind shift of treating your prospective employees and your current employees like customers, making sure that they're happy. Right. Go for it.

Yeah. One of the things I was going to say about the process, I'm sorry, I keep coming because things pop into my mind is what it calls, it says on the process of what would people do? What should the owners of the businesses be doing? And it's in the communication with them because, and this is, I'm a big statistics person. Right. And studies show that people are more anxious and feel worse if they don't hear back from an application they've submitted than not hearing back after a first date. They take it harder not hearing back from an application. And the other thing is, I think it was like over 70% of employers feel that they do a great job communicating what happens with the hiring process. But less than 20% of applicants feel that employers do a good job of basically telling them what's happening in the process. So it's just letting them know what's going to happen next. What is the next step in the process going to be having and having Communication in place that you know that's going to happen systematically and not leaving it to happenstance because with most recruiting, you know, it's one of those things where it's, you know, you've got even except every. If you have a full time in house recruiter, that's great. What are the tools that you're providing them to be able to track what's happening with the candidates? That's the thing that, because if they're not hearing back from you, they're going to assume that it's a, you know, that it's, it's a no go. So they're going to go somewhere else.

Got it. So providing your in house recruiters, if you have them with the tools needed to nurture those prospective employees and be communicating with them about next steps or next stages. I've actually, I have some friends who are in the job market right now and one friend of mine applied to a pretty prestigious tech company and she didn't get the job. But they had a call with her afterwards saying hey, the only reason you didn't get this is because this other person has slightly more experience in this area with you. But we really liked you. Can we continue? Can we keep you on our roster so if something similar comes up, we can reach out. And she was like, oh yeah, of course you can. And even that process where they, you know, essentially rejected her for the role by opening that line of communication, she now has a great experience with the company even though she didn't get her main goal met, which was to work there.

Right. And that's the thing. It's just, it's about communication. That's the biggest. I mean it's just, it's, it's. Oh, I mean it's. Everything in life is, you know, the more you communicate, the better it's going to be. And even if it's bad news, right? Even if it's bad news, communicate. And that's for your business as well. You know, things are going great, communicate when they're going bad, communicate more. And, and I kind of learned that from the power company back in 2004, 2005, we had back to back to back hurricanes. And the only time you think of the power company are not positive either one. There's two times when the power goes out and when you get your bill, you don't want the best grade. The cut power company can ever get is a C. Right. Even if you do everything perfectly well. During those hurricanes I was, I was a director of national accounts, national executive Accounts so we had Miami Dade county schools, Broward county schools, the federal government, the state of Florida, all the huge accounts. And I told my account managers that, you know, they need to hear your contacts at these places, need to hear from you. They should never see or hear anything in the newspaper or that or hear it at Sea. Owns the TV that they didn't hear from you first. And although the service was horrible those three years, our ratings went through the roof because we were communicating so much. So even though their level of service went down, the perception of their level of service went up. And so from that same thing, when you're communicating with the prospects going through the process, that's going to make mean so much more as they're going through that process. And we almost get to the point where they recognize the number. The other thing I would tell you is always use the same number with any communication so they know where it's coming from from, and they don't look at it. Because if someone calls you on your phone and it's a number you don't recognize, do you answer it?

Usually no, because I get about nine of them a day.

Right. So so does everyone. And so if it's a number that you're communicating with them from the text messaging with phone calls, where they recognize that number, it increases the likelihood of them to respond either to the text or the phone call because it's a number that they see consistently with the messaging coming through.

Got it. It's all great. And I wanted to bring up a Brene Brown phrase that I think is really apt or applies really well to this communication, which is clarity is kindness, even if it's, you know, bad news, like you said. So I think definitely something for folks to keep in mind. I want to circle back on Indeed and the other traditional job boards where people may be posting for hiring. When we first spoke, you told me that, you know, one of the biggest things with Indeed, that if you don't have a resume ready to go, people will most likely just. All right, well, moving on to the next. So I would love if you could expand upon that a bit.

Sure. I mean, if you think about it, how many people that are in the trades have a resume laying around ready to go right now? Indeed tries to make it easy so you can fill out a resume in their system. But where are most people filling the information out? Are they sitting on a computer now? They're on a tablet. They're on their phone. Have you ever tried to type out a resume on a phone? It's not that conducive. Right. So the, the thing is, is that having a way for them to apply for your job in a way that's going to make it easy for them to fill out on a mobile device. One of the things we do inside of our system is that we, instead of an application being, having to have a resume, if they have one, great, they can upload it. But have you ever tried to upload a document on a phone?

Horrible.

It's like, where do I go find it anyway I can. On a computer? Yeah, I can go find it and attach it if I'm, you know, because that's what I sit in front of every day. But I mean, I can't tell you how to go attach a resume to a form on my, on my phone. I can fill out the information. I can tell you everything I want to know with drop downs and put in the information. And so making it easy for them to do that because you're going to get the same information. Because people that don't have a resume, when they move on, it could be the best tech or the best installer you could have ever hired, but they're going to prematurely exclude themselves because they don't have a resume ready to go. I would rather have information and application filled out online than worry about a resume. The other thing with resumes are, are they all the same? No, no, they're all different. You got to look for the information where, when you have a application that's laid out where they can fill everything out and it's, you can know where to look from. And when you go through it, everyone looks the same. It makes your job easier for identifying those that you want to talk to from that standpoint. The other thing I would say is that if you do create an application page online, make sure that you have the job description next to it so they don't have to leave. It's one of those little tricks of a sales funnel, right. You want to keep people narrowly, singularly focused so they don't leave the page. Because if they leave, the chances of getting them back are go way, way, way down. So you want to keep them on that page as much as possible. To that, to that, to that. You also want to, if you have a video, you know, put images on that page, put a video on that page. Because application pages with videos get about 45% more conversions than application pages that are just static. An employee unemployment video is an amazing tool because you're able to see if the owner, they're able to See the trucks able to see people working, hearing people that work at the company, what they say. So I would say having a recruiting video created, it doesn't have to be a major motion picture production. You could shoot it and string it together with an iPhone and edit it with the tools that are on an iPhone or an Android. And would be better than not having a video on your page.

That is an incredible statistic. 40% more conversion with a video than a static page. And that could just be you. I mean, theoretically speaking, you have a great culture already, right? With people that love working for you, who wouldn't mind doing a couple lines of like, oh, yeah, I love working at ABC Plumbing. They're the best. So even, like you said, just putting that on an iPhone, there's a lot of tools out there where even if you don't have the bandwidth, you can put something together pretty quick.

It's. It's pretty simple to do.

So actually, I have a couple more things I want to talk to you about, and one of them, which kind of leads into what I just said before, is retainment, right? Because there's two levels of hiring, right? It's attract the best folks and retain them. I would love to hear your thoughts on company culture and how you keep those people. I mean, that Lucky strike example from Madman was great. You're losing clients the minute you sign them. But you know what, in your perspective, is the best way for companies to create a great culture that will keep these folks, these great, talented people there longer?

It can be as simple as just making sure that they know that you care by acknowledging the things that they do great. Thanking them for showing up on time, thinking of making it so that when they come into the building, they get a high five. Or, you know, you can't sometimes with, you know, with COVID and the restrictions, you can't shake hands or. I was. I saw an interview with someone the other day where they said, I still hug my employees. I'm saying, you have to go hug your employees, but making sure you acknowledge them. But the other thing is, keep this in mind is people come to work for their dreams, not yours. Find out what it is that makes that motivates them. What is that thing that they come to work for? And it can be as simple as an employee survey to find out what's going on with them. One of the things we just. We've recently done, even with a one, is put together a survey utilizing our system to send out and just asking them questions like, you know, what's Your spouse's birthday, what are your kids birthdays? What's your favorite movie? You know what, you know, what is your. What's your. What's the coolest place you've ever been? Who's the most most famous person you've ever met so that you can kind of have that information? And some people like, oh, that's kind of corny. But it shows that you're. You're. That you care and you care about them. Because like I said, you know, nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. That's that same thing as caring. And one of the things that we've done, even with our internal team, is, you know, we have adopted the dream manager philosophy. It's the fact that they come to work for their dreams, not yours, and identifying what is their dream. Because for a lot of people, it's homeownership. It's just a matter of fact that I would love to own a home or buying their first car and being able to help them realize that. I'm not saying you got to give them extra money to throw down payment or do anything like that, but, you know, identifying, okay, you want to be a homeowner, you know, help. I've been helping them structure their finances. I was talking with one company recently, and they said that when, you know, they have their CPA come in once a quarter and they have to come into the employees in the morning meeting, they have them come in for an hour and they go through and give them ideas and pointers on things they can do for their personal finances, the things that they need to look at if they want to become a homeowner. Helping them with their credit. Little things like that that are intangibles, granted, that lets them know that you care, and it's more about them as a person than them as a technician or an installer, that's what starts to build that culture. Whenever you do it that way.

Yeah, that's awesome. I 100% agree with that. Next thing I wanted to ask you about is apprenticeship programs. Tommy mentioned that he has an apprenticeship program that's churning folks out. What are your thoughts on apprenticeship programs and how folks in the trade should be utilizing them?

I'm seeing it more and more whenever we talk to people, because everybody like to have experienced technicians. Right? Everybody would like to have experienced installers. Do you know what the average age of the trades workforce is right now?

Probably late 50s, early 50s.

It's, it's. It's early 50s. Right. So they're Going to age out, you know, where the next, where's the next badge coming in from? Well, everybody wants experienced people. You know, starting to build an apprenticeship program or training into your system is going to allow you to bring people in that, where you're able to hire for. We're able to hire basically for their, their ability rather than their technical skill. Are they customer focused or what? Their, their attitude. Hire for attitude rather than aptitude and being able to do that so that you then, I mean, let's face it, what the top, top. What does top talent get you? Being able to train them as they come in the door. Making it so that they know your way of doing things and so that they're treating your customers the right way as well. But top talent gets you more five star reviews. They don't call in sick all the time. They're, you know, they're, they're actually getting more leads for you because they're, you know, they're talking to people whenever they're pumping gas, putting it in the truck. You know, the people asking them questions about their job instead of like, I don't want any more work, they're out there doing that. So bringing in someone from the ground floor and giving them the opportunity. With that in mind, most of the positioning that we do, especially on the apprentice side, is ready for a new career. Because you want to position it as a career, not a job. Anybody can get a job. It's a career. A career is something that you become known as. You know, nobody, nobody is. You don't, you're not known as a, as a hamburger flipper at McDonald's, but you become known as, oh, what is he? Oh, he's a plumber. Oh, he's an H vac technician. He's a, you know, he's a garage door repair guy. You know, he's a, he's a handyman. They become, that becomes what they becomes their identity, so to speak. So helping them, I did do that from a very early age, and treating them and training them the right way also keeps them so that whenever they do leave, it's way down the road, not, not anytime soon. Because you've helped them become who they are.

I love that, Jody. I love the idea of selling a career with the apprenticeship program and not just a job. And everyone I know who I talk to on this podcast who has apprenticeship programs in place, they're slow going, but they are going and they are churning out really loyal and talented techs. And what's even better is, you know, you're training them to do stuff in the way that you want it to be done. Because a lot of the folks I talk to are dedicated to exceptional customer service and providing an awesome experience. And, you know, sometimes you hire top talent and they don't necessarily have the same standards you do.

And to that point, though, you mentioned, you know, the customer service is. It comes down to. I mean, reviews are one of the. Part of the lifeblood of the service industry. You know, I know you've been making it so that you know that they're asking for the reviews, that they're doing that. But the other part of the reviews is that a typical job candidate will look at six different places for reviews before they make a decision to apply to a company. So, not just making sure your Google reviews are good and your Facebook reviews are good and your Yelp and your Angie's List reviews are good and your home advisor and your thumbtack, but also, what does your glass door look like? What does your. What does your. What do your Indeed ratings look like? You know, how are you. How are people rating you? And getting those top employees of yours to make sure that you know that they are letting people know what a great company you are to work for to that same, that same vein is like getting them to record testimonials for you. But you're, like, going to those sites and giving you those ratings. It kills me whenever I see companies that they just, they don't even think about it. They've got, you know, they come to this and it's like, yeah, we need to get some. So we need to get some technicians, a couple of installers. It's like, all right, tell me, help me understand these. This. The ratings of the 2.1 stars you have on. Indeed. Oh, I didn't realize that was that way. I'm like, well, that's part of what's hurting you, being able to ignite. And the bad news is you have 2.1 stars. The good news is it's only three reviews. So three. Three good reviews is going to turn that around for you. So really paying attention and looking at doing that, because that's just as critical because they are. They're looking at how you treat people, and they're looking at what the customers are saying about you to decide if they're going to come work for you.

Jodi, you are chock full of statistics and wonderful catchphrases. I don't know if anyone's ever told you that before, but I definitely got a lot from this interview as A hiring person, a hiring manager, myself as an employee, I'm no doubt that everyone listening is also just like jotting down notes furiously or gonna replay this episode. Couple more questions and then I'll let you go. If you could give yourself one piece of advice from early on in your career, what would it be?

That putting in the time pays off, right? There are no quick fixes. There is no ready made patch that's just going to make it everything do great. It takes time to put things in place. And even though the name of our company is Rapid Hire and we do move things very quickly, you still have to put in the work. You have to put things in place in order for it to take off and stick with what you're. Stick with what you're doing and stick with a way of doing it and to make until it does pay off for you. Because I said I've. Whenever I left the power company, I jumped from. I was always in marketing, but I was the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. Since. Since focusing right in one area, in one avenue and keeping with that, it's made it so that, you know, it's just given me. I tell people that doing what I do today is but the worst day. Doing this is better than the best day of the power company company. But it would have been so much better, so much quicker had I just stayed with the one path and not worried about trying to expand into 17 different things all at one time. So you're kind of really just staying with where you're at. Also let the people who are the best at what they do help you. You know, if I would have instead of trying to do it all myself and now, I mean, now that I have a team in place around me and I have outside experts that help me with the things that we do in our business, it's helped us grow exponentially. So I know that's kind of a very circular answer to what would I tell myself, but I had a lot to learn when I left the power company. I've been with a Fortune 200 company. I had to figure all this stuff out. Unfortunately, I thought I had to figure it all out on my own. But if I would have just slowed down and let the people who are offering to help me help me, it'd have gone so much quicker.

Yeah, I relate to that a lot actually. So thank you for sharing. Final question. If you had to choose a song to be the soundtrack of your life, what would it be?

It's kind of funny because I was born and raised in a little tiny town in Florida, and it's kind of a it's kind of. It's just one of those things that always keeps coming up and you think of it, oh, it'd be like, you know, something smooth. It's save a horse, ride a cowboy.

I can I just say I'm collecting these songs for this season, and the playlist that will be that I will create for this is going to be so eclectic. It's gonna be very fun. Thank you for sharing that. Jody Underwell from Rapid Hire Pro, thank you so much. Again, all of this information was critical to the trade, is critical to the trades, and I so appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for being a guest on Toolbox for the trades.

You're welcome. Thank you very much for having me.