How Two Electrical Pioneers Are Lifting Others Up | Podcast Ep. 207 | Toolbox for the Trades

Hello, contractors, and welcome to Toolbox for the Trades. My name is Jackie Aubel, and today I spoke with Gilbert and Victor Ayala, the President and GM of 5 or free electrical services in Sacramento and the Bay Area. We spoke about the power of second chances and how the Ayala brothers aim to improve the lives of their team members and their families. I'll be honest, this episode is a little different than our regular content, but I'm confident you'll find Gilbert and Victor's insight as impactful as I did. Enjoy Gilbert and Victor Ayala. You guys are the president and the GM of Fiverr Free Electrical Solutions in the Sacramento and San Francisco Bay area. Today we're going to be talking about the power of second chances and setting up a company for success. Welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you.

Thank you for having us.

So, just a little background, guys. Two pantheons ago, Gilbert and his brother Victor, they approached me at Panthe Titan's User conference, and I absolutely loved chatting with them. I think they've got a great story, and I'm just so happy that we're making this happen in real time. We're going to kick this show off with an icebreaker, like I love to do. So I'm going to ask and Victor, I think I'm going to give this one to you first. What song, if any, would be the soundtrack of your life?

It's probably one that's many people have heard of so much. It's from an artist by the name of Zach Williams, and the name of it is far too good to a man like me. I just very grateful for everything that's gone on in my life and even some of the struggles and the hardships that have happened through our life if they didn't happen exactly the way they did and I wouldn't be the man that I am today. Very humbling to think about where I'm at. I'm very Dexter forts and that would be my song. Zach Williams, far too good for him.

What a beautiful answer. All right, Gil, same one. Are you going to follow it up with something as meaningful?

So I'm a sucker for what they would call baby making music. So good. Old Brian McKnight, Boyz II Men was awesome. That pantheon. So, yeah, I think over the years, you know, working this business and stuff is just always keeping my. My mind focused on why I leave the house every day for both my wife and my children. And just the support that I have with her. Just really wanting to be the man that, yeah, she deserves.

So awesome. Awesome. So you guys are brothers, obviously. Gil, you are the president of five or Free and Victor, you are the gm. The gm, by the way, who is operating in Tennessee, even though you guys are based in the Bay Area, which is very cool.

Shout out to Service Titan for making that happen.

I know I set that up. I set that up for you and you just knocked it down. Way to go, Gil. So I know that this whole story really started or the. The inception of five or Free. That was really your thing, Gil. So I would love if you could tell us how you became president of five or Free Electrical Solutions and start with how you got into the trades to begin with.

It's not actually something that I came up with. I actually had a business partner that I started with. His name is Alexis Munoz and actually he's out in Tennessee now, but I started with him and it's been fortunate. And it's also just another aspect to keep me from floating away is just knowing that the brand in and of itself wasn't my idea. Basically between him and his dad, what they did was they put on an Excel spreadsheet of all the reasons why service companies get one star reviews. And so they tallied up all the reasons why companies would get one star reviews and then what they did was they came up with the top five reasons for the one star reviews and made those into promises. And so that's where the brand came five or Free. They actually started it with a window cleaning company out here in the San Francisco Bay area, which was successful. And I joined with him through in some sales systems with him and turned his average ticket from like, I don't know, four, four hundred dollars to maybe like thousand to twelve hundred bucks. And.

Nice.

We ended up partnering together and starting this thing together and then that was pretty much that. We ended up parting ways probably about three years into the business and I've been pretty much running, running it ever since, so.

Nice. So when did you make the transition to president running it on your own?

That was in 2018.

Okay.

Yeah, we, we ended up partying and I just ended up taking the wheel and going with it and growing it from at that point, I think we were probably about a year in with Service Titan and I think at that point we were probably at about 1.5 mil. So service titans definitely helped us grow. And I think overall, just with losing a partner and going from that point till now, I wouldn't have been able to do it without having the type of processes that are just set in stone with service Titan. So that's just definitely helped us out a lot.

That's awesome. And for the record, you do not have to talk about so you don't have to say such nice things about Service Titan. That's what this pod, this podcast is for hearing your story. But I appreciate all of the Service Titan love you're giving us Titan now. So window cleaning. I didn't realize that at first. How did electrical get added to the mix?

I was originally an electrician and I was the top salesman in with a company out here with a great man. His name's Scott Momola. He is the owner of Maine Electric. And kudos to him. He just got bought out by Service Champions north with Kevin. Kevin Comerford. I learned a lot from him. And basically I was. I was a top salesman there for 2012, 2013, and then we ended up having to part ways at that point. And I went in on my entrepreneurial track run from that point and I opened up a chimney sweep because that's what I did with my brother Vic a long time ago. So I just wanted to see if the things that I learned within the service industry, that if I can implement the same processes into a different industry, that they would work. And they did. The chimney sweep business, it was called King Bristle. And within three months, I think we did about 80, $80,000 in revenue. The first start of it, I was able to hire like two or three guys helping me out with that. And so I ended up merging King Bristle. And at the time, Alexis Munoz, he, he was the owner of five or free window cleaning. So he was helping me, launched the King Bristle as I was helping him with his business. And so we just seen that we worked well together. And so we ended up just joining forces with our chimney sweep and dryer vent cleaning, plus the window cleaning. And that was just services that we offered all together. And then I just figured, well, why don't I just get jumped back into the electrical. It was always a license thing, the contractor's license. I ended up finding out that there was an option to get a license without having to take the test, which is called an RMO here in California. So I took that option and brought on an rmo. We started a corporation. And then the stipulations for that was just basically the RMO that was starting out with us was there until I was able to take the test, which I took the test probably within two years of the corporation starting. I passed the first time. And so that's how that kind of started.

So Initially, we started a chimney sweet business. And I don't move fast enough for this guy. This guy likes to move quicker. And so he leaves the business that we started to go start his own competing. So he's competing against his older brother, trying to take my market share over here. And then this guy, since I'm the one, I'm a certified chimney technician. I got, you know, I took all the classes for all the mortar and the different types of this and that, whatever. And so this guy who was starting with me, all of a sudden he's on roofs and stuff, calling me, hey, how do we fix this? Hey, how do we do that? Because he's such a go getter that he just wants to go get it before actually, you know, understanding, you know, all the little nuances and stuff. So I'm helping my competitor over here. I'm on one roof and this guy who's supposed to be on the same roof, if me is on another one, it's so. Yeah, go ahead, continue, Gil, continue. Yeah, that's. That's my loving brother over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, my goodness. Okay, so first off, I just want you guys to know I had no idea we had chimney sweep and window cleaning in the mix here with five or free electrical services. Also, Gil, I am somewhat not surprised that you started a competing business because it was not going as fast as you wanted it to. Not that we know each other that well, but just from the few interactions that we have had, you definitely seem like someone who is eager to get started.

I think that's most entrepreneurs.

Yeah, for sure. So let's back up just a little bit here because you both did chimney sweeping together. Vic, how did you get into the trades?

So for me, we had a fairly, you know, rough upbringing. Parents weren't allowed, got raised by different family members. I chose to take a life more of crime. Put it that. To put it. To put it in a light way. I ended up. I'd end up in jail and you know, as most people, when they get out of jail, they're. It's hard to find employment. And so I knew a buddy that I worked with before, had knew a guy that had a chimney business that would take chances on, you know, on certain people that had records that had bad backgrounds. And he referred me to him and.

I went and did an interview with.

Him and it was named by the. By the man named Mark Herzog out of Fremont. He's passed away now, but he took a chance on me and brought me in and it was, you Know, because I was legit and honest about wanting to change my life. I ended up moving pretty quickly through his, through his company, up to being his main tech. And once I got to his main tech, he decided to pay for my, my schooling and to get me actually certified and whatnot. And so I worked with him being his main chimney tech. And I think I was with him for a good. It was around four years or so that I. Four to five years that I was with him before I upgraded the company and the deeds of my family up through the company. So that's kind of where that happened. Now before that, for the, the electrical part came into it, I started going to, getting my ET BT training to.

Be an electrical trainee.

And I made it probably halfway through the, the class before I ended up getting arrested. And that kind of put in, you know, kibosh on that. So it never went back. But I still have to pay my full loan off those. So for all you people out there going to do it, finish it, because they don't, they don't care if you finish them out. They're still, they still want their money. So.

That'S a thank you for sharing that. About your background, Vic. And that's really kind of what we're here to talk about. And one of the things that got me so excited when I first met you guys at Pantheon, because you were really upfront about your history and about how in your work at 5 or free, you're hoping to give second chances to the right type of people. And Gil, anything you want to add? Because I know. And again, you don't have to say anything you don't want to say, but any. But I know your background too. You kind of came from. You came from a rough background, similar one as Vix. So can you just talk a little bit about how the trades give you a second chance?

Yeah. So I'm, I'm still in the same shop. So every single day there's a dumpster that's right outside my garage door at my shop. And that dumpster is a monument for me in my life because at 18 years old, it was. I was crying to that man, Scott Nimola. I was crying to him. He's seen something different in me. I was a part of a group, group interview trying to get into his electrical company. As we were walking out, he decided to talk to me as I was the last one there. And he asked me like, why, why do I need to give you an opportunity? And I, I just laid it out to him completely honest. You know, I never grew up with my dad. You know, I got my. My girlfriend at the time, who's my wife now. We just celebrated 17 years together. She's my high school sweetheart. But my wife, my girlfriend at the time, I got her pregnant, and I never really carried a real job. I was always doing things that I shouldn't have been doing that could have got me in a lot more trouble. And so I just plainly told him, you know, these are the things that I have been doing. And I just started going to church and I got plans to marry my wife and do it, do. Do it the right way. I got her pregnant, and I want to have my life changed. I was out at that dumpster, just laying it out to him. And at that point, he gave me an opportunity. And so the same place that my whole career started is the same place that I walk in every single day. And I just see the smiles and the lives being changed with the people that are here on our team and working with us. There's something about the fact that that monument is there, and then likewise, the brand in and of itself, Fiber Free is not mine, which just. It was necessary because I get my big head from this guy. So.

No.

Well, what you guys haven't mentioned and what I know from the pre interview is you guys are also. You come from a big family. You. You're like, you're two of what, eight siblings, I think, right?

Yes.

And, Vic, you're the oldest, so it sounds like tumultuous childhood. You, as the oldest child took on really, that parent. Parentified figure for your younger siblings. Weird question. Don't have to answer it if this is too personal, but I love family dynamics. Vic, like, given that you really helped raise Gil, how proud are you of him that he's an entrepreneur?

Oh, I could be prouder. I tell him often. But just thinking about how, you know, I know. I know the struggles that our family had. I know the struggles that we had. I mean, like, his birthday is today. He's 10 years younger than me. And there's still, you know, I've still got siblings younger than him. I got siblings older than him. And to see what he's been able to do, what God's been able to do through him, it is one of the things that. I don't like to put it this way, but there's no other way. I'm proud of what he's done. I'm proud of the man that he is. I know that my weaknesses seem to be his strengths. He inspires Me as a little brother, he encourages me because I know that the general, you know, the genetic template is there. You know, it's just. God's just blessed me with a different brain in different areas, and God's blessed him, but he inspires me to try to access those different parts and to have a little bit of a different mindset in different areas and then to see not only what he's done in business, but, I mean, I don't know how other people look at business, but business is a tool. It's a means to an end. And while it's important, no one's really sitting there on their deathbed. You know, man, if only I would have made that deal five years ago. What they're talking about is if only I could have been a better husband. If only I could have been a better father. If only I could have spent more times. And I've heard it from. At service time, from the speakers and stuff, and it's just, you know, as the. As you get bigger and you get bigger, you realize the things that you have to sacrifice to get there and to be able, you know. The best thing I could say about my, my, my brother is that while we are growing and while he's a great businessman and a great entrepreneur, he is an awesome father, he is an awesome husband. And those are the things that I'm most proud of to see the wonderful, wonderful nieces and nephews and the great relationship that he has with beautiful, beautiful wife that I do back in high school, you know, when they were young, to see them grow to what they are, those are the greatest things that I'm proud of as a. As a old brooker. So don't you start crying, Gil.

I wanted to call that out because I think part of the reason why Gil is so great and you're great too, Vic, is because you were that grounding force for him when he was younger. I think siblings really help one another during tough times growing up. And I think that is such that comes through in the way you two interact and the way I met you two as a duo. It comes through now in the show. And given that the trades has family businesses embedded in it, I think this is probably one of the most powerful examples I can show of how sometimes that family history really provides us almost like magic stuff that allows you to do great things. So thank you for getting vulnerable with me and for sharing a little bit about that. That was fantastic.

I don't know about Gil. I do know about Gil, but there's nothing that's really off the table for us, you know, if you're willing to broadcast it, we're usually willing to say it, so.

Well, one thing you said here, right. Is you. One thing you said that I wanted to pull on here is Gil, in our pre interview, you mentioned how you want to help other people become better husbands and better fathers. Because it sounds like for you, you had this moment as an 18 year old boy who by the way, front of your frontal lobe wasn't developed yet. That doesn't happen until you're 25. So you're still developing. Right. You got your girlfriend who you love pregnant. You're at this place where you're like, I want to be a better father than my father was to me and I want to get into this trade to do that. And so you try to do that with the people that come onto your team, with the gentlemen on your team. So tell me a little bit about how you try to support them in their goals of becoming a better father, a better, better husband.

Yeah, I mean overall, that's a teamwork between both my brother and I. I mean he's, he's been one as a leader for me, just always having my back in terms of, you know, being a better husband. And maybe it may not be exactly what he experienced, but he has wisdom that he's always there and willing to give over the years. So I think, I think our guys, they can see it. One of my guys, and he's like 50 years old, one morning he told me he's driving away, he rolls down his window and he says, I want to be like you one day. And I said, what do you mean? And he's like, you're just so patient. You don't get easily mad. And I want to be like you. And I think just being open and likewise to just our gatherings together. When I do make our teen gatherings, parties and stuff like that, inclusive. Bring your wife, bring your kids and let them. And I also, a lot of the times will include the, the wives and remind the guys that if it wasn't for their wives at home, if it wasn't for their children at home, through the sacrifice, then you know, you guys want to be able to be here. You got your great support at the home. So just I think just being available, making, making known to them that I'm nothing special apart from the fact that in the same type of effort that I put to my work is the same type of effort that I put inside the home to ensure that, you know, I am constantly knowing My wife continuing to know her and get to know her along with all of my kids individually and just being present, you know, as much as you can. Just being available to talk to them and minister to them and having an open ear and just available to, to give insight if, if they're willing to listen.

So, yeah, it sounds like you're doing a lot of practicing what you preach, essentially, like you are embodying and living the values that you pride yourself on and folks are seeing it and they're looking up to you because of it. That's quite a compliment. When someone older than you is like, I want to be like you someday. Vic, anything you'd like to add there in terms of this goal of like, we want to help our team become better partners. Better, better partners, better parents.

Well, it's one of the things just to piggyback off what he's saying. My demeanor and my constitution, the way that I'm built up more. I've always been more of a follow me type leader. I've never been more of a rah rah. When I speak, usually I always speak when I have something to say and I try to be really concise with my words. My brother will tell you, sometimes I come off as being short or sharp. My biggest thing that I bring to what we're trying to do for the company is consistency. And the men, they see that, they see the consistency that I have with them and they also get to see the consistency that I have with my wife and my family. And anytime we're doing events or they'll hear conversations when my wife's around, they see how we interact with each other. You know, everybody wants to try to emulate the things that they, that they want to achieve. Right. You know, when I was younger, I wanted to be Will Clark. You know, I wanted to have the same swing and I wanted to be a professional baseball player. And, and so for me, I just wanted to be somebody that they want to emulate. And when they do ask, you know, they know that they're going to get honest truth because I don't beat around the bush with them. We're able to go out here and work 10, 12, 14 hour days because we have amazing people at home supporting us, keeping everything down and appreciating what they do and realizing that even when you get home, your work's not done yet. My work's not done until my kids and my wife are getting ready to go to bed because I still have to bleed into them. I still have to be a dad. I still have to be a husband. You know, they say that a woman's job is never done, right? You've heard that, right? That a mom's job is never done and a woman's job is never done. Well, what makes you think that your job's done? What makes you think that your job's done? And so getting them to have the right type of. Type of mindset, to go home, to be that good husband, to be that good dad. Yeah, you're tired. Your wife's tired, too. She's still making sure that your tits are fat. She's still making sure your UFOs are clean. So why don't you go make sure that your kid had, you know, someone to play catch with? Why don't you go make sure that, you know, that your wife has something to. To look at you besides just a paycheck and, you know, some dirty clothes? And it's just emulating it. It's just living it out and doing it consistently every day. So that. Because people know phonies. I'm sorry, people know phones, especially if you're working with them every day and everybody can put out the good show or they're in front of people and I'll look how great our marriage is. But if it's not consistent and they see the cracks, that it doesn't really play out that way. It doesn't really work. We want to give the best service so that people have the best experiences, so that they have the safest homes and they. That they enjoy being at their house every day because that's where they live. Well, we have the same. The same goals as well. Why does that stop once you get off work, though? Why does the whole idea of being the best stop when you're in that car? Ride home? No, go home and still be the best. Be the best husband you can, be, the best dad you can be. Be the best man that you can be.

I could not agree with you more, and I think that's such a wonderful message to be sharing to your team and something that clearly you two have learned from your life experience and you are trying to spread amongst the work that you're doing in the service industry. I want to stick on second chances a bit. You guys have been giving such great answers here. In a lot of the interviews I've talked with, with people, you know, we talk about folks with criminal backgrounds. We talk about this idea of second chance, putting people in the industry who may have a murky past, so to speak. My question to you guys, does Everyone deserve a second chance.

I would say that. I would say that, yes, everybody deserves at least one second chance. I want to just be clear. The week that me and my brother, we base everything off of biblical principles. And so the idea of second chances, while it is true, but the truth of the matter is, is Jesus can give me a thousand chances and I'm going to fail a thousand times. And so if it wasn't for what Jesus did for me, you know, things wouldn't be where they are. But with that mindset, though, still I believe that if a person is honest about where they're, where they're at and who they are and could see the need to actually change, then, yes, I do believe that they deserve second chances.

Now, if you're going to be one.

Of those people that wants to continue in the same bad habits and the same lifestyle, make the same bad choices, while I still believe that you deserve a second chance, it's not necessarily going to be with us. And I've seen the results of it, not only with my experience with the chewy cleaning guy with Mark Herzog, where he, his whole thing was he only took people that were coming out of, you know, prison or coming out of jails or situations like that. I'd seen the results there and I've seen results with us here where, you know, people that never thought they would be able to, a horn buying a house or, you know, sending their kids to a private school or, you know, all the different things that we all, that we all want to do with an honest chance and with, with real effort, be able to do it. Now that's not to say that every, every person we've hired has been a winner. It's just trusting the people that you're putting them with. You know, the, the guys that you already got that already know the culture you want and taking their feedback and, and listening to them quickly and making quick judgments on, on whether you're, they're going to be a good fit for, for our culture. But like I said before, yes, we're growing and yes, the, the revenue's coming in. I take great pride in what we're doing as a company, you know, money wise. But I can't tell you that my greatest prize is to see one of our field supervisors, you know, talking with him the other day. And, you know, I've noticed that you haven't had any issues, you haven't talked about any issues with your marriage recently. And, you know, and so, well, I've taken, you know, I've done This, and I've done that. Or. Or another guy that we got there was his wife and his family are living. Living with their parents. But, you know, you've told me recently that because of the chances that we've given them, you know, they're. They're about to move out and get their own house.

Amazing. You know, I'm so happy for them. I don't know them, but I'm so happy for them, you know, for anyone who's had to move back in with their parents for a stretch of time.

Can you imagine? Can you imagine living with your. Living with your parents, with your kids?

Yeah.

You know, and so it is. And of course, you know, you have the ones that weren't at the point of, you know, second chances from ideal backgrounds. You know, they're still getting their houses, they're driving their new trucks, they're taking their kids. And so seeing the growth of these people's lives is what makes the headaches of a upset client or chasing a bill down or in California, you know, dealing with the government and everything that has to go along with every county's little rules. It makes all those headaches worth it, knowing that these men's lives are being changed and their family's lives are being changed, and their. Their children, their kids, Their kids aren't going to have to go through the same things that I did or that Gilbert did growing up or that maybe even their parents did growing up, that they're going to have normal lives. Hopefully. Classes is hard in my tears. Okay. Yeah.

Honestly, I love it. I. I love this type of content, and I think this kind of stuff is what people in the trades need to hear a lot of. The Tommy Mellows, the Ishmaels, the Tom Howards, they all recognize this. And I think you guys at five and freeze is why I wanted to talk to you so bad. You guys embody it and you live it, and you, like, you understand this. And this is one of the things I love about the trade so much. We are literally coming at the end of time, which is insane to me. I could talk to you guys for, like, another five hours. I do want to shout out, though, that you guys are pacing. We're going to hit 4 million this year, which is a 33% increase from last year. So way to freaking go. Gil, any final words that you want to shout out as we conclude this episode? And, guys, I really. I cannot thank you enough for being so vulnerable and for being so present with me and sharing your background, because I guarantee you, someone who listened to this was really moved by it. So thank you. Gail, Any final last words?

Yeah. So two things. One is kind of just piggybacking. Chilling back from what he just said. There's two people that I've had. One was my younger brother. He was always in and out of jail. I remember when I took him on a side job. We got paid like a thousand bucks or something for like three hours. I got the check, we went, we were driving and he just starts crying. This is probably when he was about 18 years old, now he's early 30s. He was crying and was saying like, is it that easy? And I say, what do you mean? He's like, I have to like do bad things to make that kind of money. And you're coming over here. I've never had a cut and like somebody so happy to, to pay me and they're happy about it, you know. And there's another gentleman that works with us. He's my brother in law. There's one thing that I know happens is, is. It's an, it's an identity change, right? They, there's individuals that come in, they may have thought of who they were and they've, they've lived their life with this mindset of all that they can be, and this is all that I am. To the point where they recreate a whole new identity. They come in here and they get to experience customers just truly liking them. To the point where they start to realize, like, this is who I am, this is what I'm here for. I'm supposed to be doing this and you know, in tears, telling me over and over, and I'm like, yeah, dude, like, what you did in the past is not who you are. Like, you're here and you're making a huge difference. Customers love you. It's bleeding into your home. Things are changing. So that, that's, that's one thing. The other thing I would say, at least just to close out this last year, I've been really focused in on what it means to get money down to the bottom line. Tommy Mello, he says, I'm sure he's got it quoted from somebody else, but it's, you know, revenue is for vanity and profits are for sanity. This last year is like, okay, the goal is to put money to the bottom line. We want it, we want it. It's top line is good, but we want to have a good operation where we have profit at the bottom one. If you have money at the bottom, that means you're making money, right? Everybody wants to make money. But the reality is, is being that it's at the bottom, it still should keep your mindset to stay on the bottom. Keep a servant mentality. You're still, you know, you still have that mindset of, of just don't get your head high. And by all means, maybe other people are not like me, but I think anybody who has the possibility of making a bunch of money could definitely ruin themselves. But it's, it's just having a mindset beforehand to ensure that you're not necessarily gonna let the money change you. Money is again, the business is just a tool. That aspect of things is just, you know, staying staying on the bottom and staying humble through the success. And that's, that's what, that's what's gonna keep the good direction. I think overall with even customers. Customers are gonna feel it. If you're just a pompous company out there that has no care, then I mean, who wants to buy from, from a pompous company, so.

Exactly. I'm just so happy you shared about those people in your, in your company who were able to see that the way they learned how to do things doesn't necessarily have to be the way they do things. And having that experience of the customers being happy to pay them, being happy to see them, how transformational that can be. I truly think that you guys are doing incredible work and I am so happy I got to share your story on toolbox for the trades. Gil and Vic, I know I'm going to see you probably at the next pantheon, but I am going to be following your guys story closely. I can't wait to see where 5 and 3 goes. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate you coming on.