Pioneering Cost-Saving Sustainability | Podcast Ep. 104 | Toolbox for the Trades

Dale Jackson, you are the co owner of Jackson Services. Welcome to the Toolbox for the Trades podcast.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

I am so excited to talk to you today. But before we even get started, I would love for you to tell me the story of Jackson Services. Where did it begin and where is it today?

Well, Jackson Services got started originally as an appliance repair shop back in 1973. So we're approaching our 50th anniversary coming up. And so through most of the 70s we focused on appliance repairs, we went into TV antennas installation. And then really what kind of laid the foundation of where we're at today is when we started doing refrigeration. So my dad and uncle, just a few months after my dad started the company, he was able to convince my uncle to quit trade school and come working for him full time in the trades. And that's when they first started doing refrigeration and they enjoyed. Refrigeration was good. It kind of really got them into the idea of just refrigerants and cooling. But unfortunately, refrigeration around these parts of the country meant that dairies were 95% of their customers. And when a dairy experiences a problem, most of the time it's between the hours of 3 and 5am in the morning. Yeah, my dad got tired of having to go out and catch 3:37am Service calls. And so that's when they started looking more into the, the H Vac side of things. And so we started off as a GE dealer back in the late 70s into the early 80s when GE and the factory workers of GE actually bought the train name and brand. So we just naturally became a Trane dealer. And we've been extremely loyal to Trane and been a trane dealer since 1983 when the very first one rolled off the assembly line. And so we were a part of the very first comfort specialist program. We've been the very first of every program I think Trane has ever rolled out. They created the flagship program, I think, just to respond to some of my crazy marketing requests and demands. So there, I'm sure there's plenty of people that are hoping that, that maybe I'll start selling carrier one day. I don't know, just get out of their hair. But anyway, I love Trane and I'm very loyal to them. I think they play a major role in our industry. So excited about that. And I mean, right now we're, it's, we're really focused on where is this industry going. And I think that I'm so excited about the opportunity that our industry is finally having with the. The electrification of the entire world. And I mean, every. It's impossible to go through any discussion at all, economics or energy, it doesn't matter what we're discussing. And the H Vac industry plays the leading role. No one talks about us, but we affect everything in this world that they're talking about. You can't have electrification of this globe without talking about the H Vac contractor front and center.

Totally. Yeah.

We're at the forefront of not only physically actually doing the work, but. And this is what really excites me more because, I mean, let's face it, I own a heating air company. I have no idea how to even service an air conditioner. I never have. Nobody, nobody wants me servicing an air conditioner. I'm a talker, you know, but I think. But that's where I feel like me and Service Titan are such great partners is because I feel like we're both visionaries and you need that vision that where do. Where does our industry need to be and where can it be? And I think sometimes the, you know, well, I don't only get hung up in the older generation, but I think that the newer generation is coming into our trade right now. And we're seeing technology adding into that, that work ethic that my dad laid in our industry. But now you're overlaying that work ethic and that brilliance, really, with technology. And that's where service titans playing an amazing role in coming alongside our industry and saying, where can we go? Not, not just what can't we do and where have been, but where can we go? And we can and do play the leading role in getting to where the globe wants to go.

Yeah.

And that's what excites me, is that we're now able to deliver the data that enables these industries to make smart decisions. You know, it's one thing to say as a, as an industry or as a company, let's say Kia, that makes our cars here in Troop County. They're one of our largest clients. You know, let's say they have a carbon footprint, zero plan for 2035. Well, that's great to say you have that plan, but who's actually doing it? Oh, 100%. We're actually the ones that are going back to Kia or back to Duracell or wherever here locally and saying, hey, here's. Here's the decisions you need to make. Here's how you need to set your budget for the next five years. For the next 10 years. Here's the systems that have caused you the most repair bills per kilowatt usage. That the amount of data that we're able to collect, package deliver back to our owners is amazing. And that's what's changing our industry, is the knowledge that we now have.

Yeah, I love your answer to that question because it really just speaks to how far Jackson Services has come since your dad started it almost 50 years ago. And I just want to clarify a few things. So you're in lagrange, Georgia, Georgia in Troup county, which has a lot of manufacturers, a lot of big production plants there. And we'll talk a little bit about that because spoiler alert, we're going to talk a little bit about commercial. I tend to not talk to many commercial contractors on this show, so I'm really excited to talk to you. You also touched upon sustainability and carbon footprints which is stuff I'm also incredibly excited to talk about. So you just gave a lovely little table of contents for anyone who's interested in what we're going to discuss today. But before we even do that, I was hoping you could tell us a little bit about Jackson Services makeup. I know you do various different types of businesses. I know you have a number of employees. Could you just share a little bit so the folks listening at home get a sense for how big your company is and what your operation looks like.

Absolutely, yes. So we are, our headquarters is located in Lagrange, Georgia. Lagrange is located about 15 minutes away from Alabama state line. So we have an office also located in Auburn, Alabama which is only about 35 minutes away from us. Our service area is kind of a, it's a nice little triangle that we have around Noonan, Auburn, Alabama Columbus, Georgia so in Columbus we've got the national Fort Benning base for the military is there. So we do a lot of work on the military base as well. But so gosh, for the most of our history of our company we were somewhere around the 6 to 7 million dollar revenue, had roughly about 30 to 40 employees when we took over. I kind of transitioned into more of the commercial mechanical role as salesman manager back around2013 and that's when we really started to focus on more of the new technology. We really jumped on board with VRF technology and we do a lot of school projects where it be full fledged renovations or building out new schools. So when we around that 2014 markets when we really started to grow and the first year I took over with the commercial, our revenue was $300,000. And I think in 2021, we were around 8 or 9 million dollars for that. So. And we've grown to. I think we're around 85 employees right now. We got up about 110 right before COVID hit and. But we've really just kind of had to readjust because of. You got supply chain issues, you've got workforce development issues. So we've really had to kind of take a step back and focus on what is. What's generating the most gross revenue and the most net revenue, I mean, net profit, and really focus on. That's what we gotta do.

Totally. And you're not alone in that.

I hope everyone is doing that. But I mean, I know for us personally, that's another thing that just. I'm so excited about that service titan has given us the ability to have that data. For us, it's one thing to hand data back to our customers. That's great. But if I can also have that same level of data and let me know when I'm hitting my KPIs and it lets me know where to direct my labor, because we all know labor is my most valuable commodity I have. And so we're really focusing on those KPIs now through service time.

I just want everyone to know I'm not paying him to say this. I'm just asking him general questions about how he runs his business. And he just happens to say such lovely things about my company while he does it. Thanks so much for that breakdown and congratulations on doing the 300,000 to almost 9 million in just a couple of years. That's incredible. Do you also have a residential component to the business as well?

Yes, Traditionally we've always been had a major residential division and we've always focused in on maintenance agreements. I don't understand why so many people in our industry either ignore them or act like they don't want to do them. It's been the backbone, the foundation of our company from day one. My dad and uncle both knew the value of having a maintenance agreement and having that loyal customer. And there again, I could go on about five different things about service type and what they do with their maintenance agreements. But now I'm not going to say anything. So.

No, no, you can keep going. Keep playing on the compliments. Please don't let me stop you. But I definitely want to focus on sustainability and profitable commercial because you're doing things at Jackson Services that I don't think a lot of people know is possible. You're promoting Sustainable products, and you're doing it while. While making a profit. And then you're also having a profitable commercial side of your business. And you also said new construction, mechanical. But let's focus on sustainability first. Why is promoting sustainable products and reducing your company's carbon footprint important to you?

I think that's a great question. And it actually came from our customers. I mean, that was. A lot of people don't know, or some may not know. I think more we'll find out as we go down this path. But when it comes to sustainability, Lagrange plays a major role in the foundation of the global discussion of sustainability. The owner of Interface, which is a global carpet manufacturer, Racing Anderson, he started his company the same year we started ours here in Lagrange, 1973. Think I'm correct in that. And he's. We've been one of, you know, they've been our client from day one or when we started doing commercial, you know, heating and air. And he really began the discussion of how can you lower your carbon footprint in an efficient way, but do it in a way that, where you actually make more profit. You're. You're more efficient, everything's more efficient. Your, your labor force is more efficient, but the amount of water you use on sites more efficient. And I think one, there's just good principles to that. As a business owner, do I want people working for my company that actually care about just not being wasteful? Absolutely. That's a great trait to have. I don't want to be wasteful. Well, what's another term for not wasteful? It's sustainable. It's green. We want to use less energy to accomplish more. That's just good business practice. And Ray C. Anderson was great at telling that story. He was great at communicating to the world, really in the industrial world especially, that you can be more efficient, you can be greener, if that's what we want to call it. And you can make more money doing it. And I think it just naturally leads to having employees and team members that actually care, that care about the community that they live in. And that's one things that I feel like, or I certainly want to do is to lay a foundation that my staff, my team know that we care about our community. And I think so many people do care that they want to do work for people that care. And so that's the approach that I take. And if you don't care, then you're not my customer and I'm okay with that. Doesn't make you a bad person. It just means you don't care and you don't place importance on companies that are going to help you reach those objectives, like lowering your carbon footprint and reaching your sustainability goals in 2030 or whatever. If that's not your objective, that's okay. But that just means you're, you're probably not my customer. And so whether, regardless if that's even on the residential side, you know, through so many of the things that we do that we try to implement, whether it's through our coaching through the nexstar system, or whether it's through the objectives that we encourage our service techs and installers to reach through Service Titan. You know, what we're trying to do is we're trying to teach excellence. We're trying to teach understanding the role that every single person plays in our company in serving our clients. And I think that sustainability plays a role in part of serving our clients is helping to take care of our community as a corporation, as a corporate citizen.

So, yeah, I mean, taking ownership of that responsibility, I think makes you a very responsible business owner. That's just a compliment from me to you. I love the way you spoke about that, and I wish more people who owned corporations did. My next question was really about, you know, what kind of impact you saw on the business level. Well, actually, let me rewind. When did you first start pivoting to really promoting sustainable products? Was this something that you always were doing in the background as you saw Interface, setting the model at, in your area, or was there a certain point where you really started adopting them and started promoting them to your customers?

Okay, let me, let me take kind of shift on two different directions. So from a, from a business operations point of view, one of the things that an example of us going, shifting toward that sustainability, we converted, I want to say roughly about 38 to 43 of our fleet over to run on propane gas. It was very early. Well, they've been doing this for probably 30 years, but this was roughly about 10 years ago and it was still early on in the transition. But, you know, there again, it was. We were trying to show the principle of we can be more sustainable, but it's actually costing us less money. And it did. It saved us a lot of money. But it cost. I mean, there was definitely a cost to it. It was, you know, it's downtime on vans that, you know, you're dealing with new technology, you know, But I felt like that it was important that our staff saw that one. We're being innovators, we're trying to be on that cutting edge and we're trying to be conscientious about, you know, what do we leave behind. So I think yes. Did it cost us money? Did it cost us efficiency? Yeah, probably did. Did we go away from that? Yes. You know, but that was really because the environment changed around that technology and we actually shifted over into more of a fleet management. So it was less about. Was that technology bad? It was more about just. We have to, I have to recognize changing changes in the tide of just business and with my company grows from you know, 30 employees to 110 employees, then other things like fleet management changes along the way. But another thing that I would say along that note was educating or making sure that our staff understands or appreciates the community live in. A few years ago I had a young man that came and I knew his parents and he had graduated from high school, but he had, he was in the special ed department. And for those of you that don't know, I have a severely autistic son. So I'm very passionate about the special needs community. But this gentleman had down syndrome and he was just a hoot to hang out with. I loved him anyway, so I hired him and he would come to the office and he would work for, you know, two or three hours, two or three days a week, you know, not very long. But you know, he really felt fulfilled, you know, in his accomplishments and his job, you know, and it was great for him and it was great for his parents just to have him somewhere to go, you know, for eight to ten hours a week. But you know, the real value in having him come here just for six to eight hours a week was it was so that my staff caught a glimpse very briefly of what it's like to, to have to babysit a gentleman with down syndrome just a couple hours a day, you know, and, and he loved everybody here. But you know, there's, there were those days where he got upset because somebody made him sit down and do something and he went and flipped breakers, turning off the coffee pot and everything. You know, that, that stuff happens, you know, but that's life. You know, his parents, they don't get to say time out and I want four days off, you know, and I think that's important for, for me if I can help our team here and our staff kind of understand that and see that that's important. That's bigger than heating and air.

Got it. So what I'm hearing in all of your answers is that you're just very intentional about how your community. Well, how your company appears to the community and giving back to the community, but also very intentional about communicating your values to your employees, making sure that they know that these are things that are important to me so that they can be stewards in the community and work as a representative of Jackson Services in a way that represents the company in a good way. I think that's pretty cool.

Thank you.

I love that. Thank you for sharing about your son, by the way. So I know in lagrange, Georgia and Troup county, you and your business partner Ben saw an opportunity to grow the new construction, commercial and mechanical side of the business. So tell me about that. Tell me about how that happened.

All right, so just so everyone's clear on the terminology that we use, so we have.

Oh, please. Because I'm. I'm so sorry. Please. Because I'm using every, every word under the sun and assuming they're all synonyms, please be clear. You're welcome to correct me.

So what, when I refer to new construction, I refer to residential new construction, like building houses. And. And there again, this could be. This is just us. This is our company. We're not a very. I don't even know the correct term to use. I'm afraid to even say it, but I mean, there's some companies that really focus on the plan spec type projects where they get in and they build their list out and they're every nickel and diamond everything that is not us. So in new construction, what we refer to as new construction residential building houses, it's very difficult for us to be profitable because it's just very low margins there. Again, those are not our customers. We tried, okay? I spent a lot of money in a very targeted way with. I mean, we spent $40,000 in just a matter of two months trying to reach new construction clients. All we want to do is sit down with them and tell them about their air conditioning system before they build their house. The home builders wouldn't let us do it. The homeowners don't care because it's not sexy. It's not granite countertops. You know, no one cares about the efficiency of your house. It's just the biggest investment you're going to make in your house. But anyway, so we had to come to the understanding. Look, we're done beating our head against the wall complaining because these new construction residential customers don't care to listen to us. So I figured if we, if we can spend 40 grand and they still don't care to listen to us, let's take the hint and let's just quit trying to get them to listen to us. So we've quit doing that all together.

Got it.

However, they're again going back to my principle, which is understanding who our client is. And so now when we shift to commercial and we start talking about, you know, more of the quote unquote, new construction, now, what does that consist of? Well, our niche is in technology. My philosophy is as long as whatever you are repairing or replacing, if it is complicated or if it controls something that is very complicated, then you can make money doing that. When it's very simple, like all it is is just pure labor and pure a material, you know, it's just more difficult to do that. But when you add technology to it, now all of a sudden it matters who's doing the work, how is the work getting done, how fast is the work getting done. Those are all factors I factor in when I consider are we going to go after this market? So one of those markets that we go after heavily is the VRF market with the ductless systems on the commercial side of things. And so in our area, that's a lot of schools. And a major part about schools here in the south is there a lot of old schools. And so therefore, when you need to replace a heating and air system in a school, you've only got a few months to do that because the kids, they typically get pretty upset in September and October if there's no air conditioner, you know, while they're in school. So I mean, and that. But that's kind of our niche. That's where, you know, I know that's a, that's a special job that everybody can't even bid that project. When you're talking about a 2,3 million dollar project, it has to be done in 67 days. And so therefore, you got to be capable of putting, you know, eight guys on that job for all every day leading up to it. So therefore, there again, that's technology or that's a, that's a time expedited job. So that's, that's our niche. We can go after that. And then the other thing you've already mentioned is just our enormous industrial base and, and why. And what we are extremely blessed to have here is not only an enormous industrial base base, but a very smart industrial base. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that Racing Anderson kind of set that standard here locally back in the 70s, and it's just kind of become a thing to where if, if you're going to set up shop in lagrange, Georgia, in our industrial park. You're going to be conscientious about, you know, your carbon footprint and what is, what is your initiative to. To reduce or increase your electrification. And that's. I mean, we've got. I mean, even companies that you don't hear a lot about, like Milliken is leading the charge around the world, but they don't. They don't talk about it quite as much as Interface does. Because what's. What's unique about Interface is that. And I mean, this is cr. This is something I would do. This is crazy. They. Their number one marketing campaign to sell carpet is how efficient they make carpet. So they sell carpet based on how efficient it is and how they're lowering their carbon footprint. And so therefore, who's the number one person helping Interface with their global marketing campaign? We are, because we're the ones out there actually telling them when it's time to replace the system and making sure that their repair costs aren't getting out of control, making sure that, that when they have a particular system that is losing X amount of ounces of refrigerant on a regular basis, because we have to document that and keep track of that, because that plays into. Are they lowering their carbon footprint? Are they reaching their objectives? And so not only am I helping them reach their objectives, but as just their partner, it's also my job to make them look really good while they do it. And so that's what. That's kind of my marketing approach is. Not only do I do I try to understand where my clients are going and their objectives, but I want to brag about them while they're on their way to reaching their objectives. Because guess who's the number one person helping them reach their objectives? Me. You know, in our industry, you know, that's awesome.

And that's something you and I have in common. I also love making service to end customers look good.

I.

When you were speaking, I was thinking about how so often I've heard people on this podcast say we did commercial or we did something that wasn't residential service and replacement, and they weren't able to make it successful. It was bleeding their business. They weren't turning a profit. And it sounds like when you really started pursuing these contracts, you were very specific about, this is our niche, this is what we can provide. And you also are in an area that's super conducive to these types of jobs. So it's like you combined intention with intention with Convenience almost in terms of convenience in terms of location. Do you have anything else that you would like to say about making a commercial side of a business successful? Especially considering that you also have a residential SR background backbone, I should say.

Okay, yes, case, a great opportunity or an example. And so we filmed an actual commercial. So this just goes to show you kind of the approach I take. So locally, we support heavily our Chamber of Commerce. Now we do that one because we want to give back to our community and support our community at the same time. The best place for a business to do more business with other businesses is the Chamber of Commerce. Our Chamber of Commerce is very successful, very well ran, and I've sponsored pretty much every single thing that we do at Chamber. One of the things that we do is our monthly breakfast. And so I created a sponsorship just so that I could play my commercial every month in front of the 57 different plant managers sitting in the room. And case in point, so I spent a lot of money making this commercial. But my point was so many people know us as either a residential company or a industrial mechanical company. And some sometimes our struggle is letting the other side know what the other side is doing or that we can serve both people. We can serve you in your house, but we can also serve you in plant as well. Well, so case in point, I've mentioned them quite a few times, but Interface. So the very first time we're sitting down at the table and this is the first time I've sponsored the breakfast, and they're about to show my commercial and I'm sitting right next to the plant manager for Interface, the company that we've done business with for 28 years at this point. And. But I'm showing now on the commercial, I'm showing them that we're replacing this 500 ton process chiller down at Fort Benning. And anyway, so Jay turns to me and he says, you do chillers. Didn't know that. Yeah, Jay. Yeah, we do. We do millions of dollars worth of chillers every year. And so now, since then, that was like around 2018, we've done probably $7 million worth of chiller projects at Interface, you know, since then. And we're actually looking at starting our next one right now for another $4 million.

That was an incredible example. And also, you know, I think I might have mentioned this before on the show. I've done so many of them, it's hard to tell, but this is something I say a lot I catch myself in. This is you make assumptions sometimes, especially when you're in something. So I work at Service Titan, right? And I'm constantly talking about contractors, I'm constantly talking about H vac, plumbing, electrical. When I go out into my world where service Titan isn't a thing and I start using this jargon, people are like, wait, what, what the hell are you talking about? And I think sometimes when we're, when we're so into something, especially as an owner, you kind of assume that people have your reality when. In case they don't. And I just think that example of someone you've been doing business with for literally 28 years turning to you and say, oh, you do? Chillers. Just incredible. Because now they know you're available for that service and they don't have to form a new vendor relationship, especially if they have a good relationship with you. It just, it goes to show that you always should be sharing details about the kind of services you offer. So I think that was a tremendous example. Thank you, Dale.

Yeah, well, I, I think kind of circling back around to maybe the point of, of asking or answering the question, why commercial, why focus on industrial? And I think sometimes as if you're a residential company and you're kind of contemplating why should I put forth or risk this investment going into a new market. And I just encourage you, think about it from this point of view. And this is going to sound, I don't know, I'm way too blunt for my own good a lot of times. But. So I'll just be frank with you. You know, if, if you're in a building and that building has X number of units, and let's say half those units heat and cool people, and the other half of that building, those units, heating, cool stuff, machines, motors. Well, in that business you've got half the people there that are in charge of running that company. But really what they're there is they're only there to build X amount of widgets that they're making. Whatever that widget is, they're there to make that widget, okay? So if you got two units that go down that heat and cool 20 people, those 20 people get very upset and they do not like to be hot or cold and they complain. They can complain very loudly and they can make plant managers jobs very difficult. However, if you got two of those units that cool down equipment that make their widgets and those units quit working, the whole business shuts down. So we care about people. We really do. We want them to be comfortable. And when they're not comfortable, they will cause and make our life Miserable. However, when the machines go down, the business goes down. So therefore, when, when we have POS where it literally says if required to get on private jet, do so. I mean, when, when this part goes down and it's holding up an assembly line, that equals $1.3 million per hour, if we need to get on a jet and go to Oregon to get a motor, we get on a jet and we go to Oregon and we get a motor and we come back and no questions asked, you know, and that goes to. But however, there again, I'm not saying we don't care about people. We do. But that's part of what we're building out with, with service site and as we speak, where we're going to start. And this is, this is new and never even heard of in our industry, at least as far as I know where we're going to build out and start documenting downtime. Where. Because if, if I'm doing my job as a contractor and I'm doing it well, not only am I addressing downtime when it happens, every. You can't prevent every service call from happening. But what happens if you can start documenting how fast you solve that problem or at least how fast you get it up and running and then how fast you actually solve the problem and then. But then you can also now start documenting when you didn't have repairs because you were doing your job well as a maintenance tech. And I think in our industry that's what we have. We have discounted the value of a maintenance and doing it well because we haven't had a really effective way to show when we're doing it well. And so it's hard for us to put a dollar value on something that we can't quantify and show how we're doing it well. Well, if you can start showing because of the KPIs that Service Titan is helping us to collect, if you can start showing how you're preventing downtime, then that's great. That's a huge value to that plant manager. But let's say you still have that downtime. Sometimes plant managers do not make repairs that we recommend they make, but the reason why they're not making them is because they don't have it in their budget. However, if I can start documenting every minute that that unit that goes down, you remember those 20 people I told you that don't like to be hot or cold? When those units are hot, those people are hot or cold. If I can empower that plant manager and show his boss that this unit has been down for on average of six days a month every month for the past 12 months. That's going to empower him to get the board or whoever to add another $15,000 to the budget next year because get that system replaced. Because it's all about giving him the data to make him do his job easier and better.

I love that.

And.

I'm just, I just want to share. I'm really enjoying this interview and I'm loving all of the, the points that you're giving. I'm learning a lot and I know our listeners are too. So from how I know you already, you know, we spoke a little bit before this. You seem like someone who puts a lot of stock in relationships and improving the lives of those around you, which I love. So I would love to learn. You already kind of mentioned this before with Trane and with Service Titan, but how are you partnering with other businesses to improve the trades as a whole? I would love for you to go into detail a little bit more about that.

Okay. Well, there's a lot I, I, that is something I'm very passionate about. And if people that know me know that I don't joke around when I'm loyal, I'm loyal and I consider everybody. If I'm going to do business with you, then you're my partner. And so I expect you to make decisions that are with what's best for my company and mine equally. The Service Titan Trane or Mitsubishi or Ari Michael. We buy our material from Ari Michael. I don't know. To me, it's all about everybody can be helped through every partnership, partnerships equal, doing things more efficiently, more effective and a better cost, a better profit and a better service back to our customers. But part of that is like for instance today is workforce development. And so I'm working with, trying to work with two different chamber of commerce, one on either side of the Alabama, Georgia border. And then the way things work in my area is Kia and Hyundai play a major role. So on my side of the, the river in Georgia it's called Kia, and on the Alabama side of the river it's called Hyundai. And so but then all their suppliers are in our area. And I mean right now we're, we're living in a region that probably has, I couldn't even tell you that the actual workforce region. But we're short just in our county, we're short nearly 7,000 jobs and that's in a county that only has about 60,000 people, period. And we're, we need about 5 to 6,000 jobs in the next year. So part of one of the things I'm trying to do and even now talking to service titan a little bit about supporting me, supporting me in these efforts is actually starting a trade school. But this trade school is going to be different. We, and I don't want to get into the weeds, but it's very frustrating because we actually got. I worked with the city of Lagrange and a couple of other different entities here in lagrange locally and we went after what they, what the state of Georgia referred to as the innovative grant. So basically they gave us carte blanche to create a grant that was innovative. So I came up with the idea of a training center that used the money to purchase not only the building to train the kids in, but this, this training center would actually use it. Like for instance, we have a college and career academy. A lot of those are popping up around the country and that they're enabling high schools. Like in, for instance, here in Grange and Troop county, you've got three different high schools. So the students of those three different high schools can send their students to like this one centrally located trade school, you know, and I think that's fairly getting more and more common, which is great. However, the way this was unique, we've already started a H VAC construction pathway, one of the high schools, but it's kind of confined there in the high school. But it's still great. And we've actually got employees that still work here that have come through that program. But this particular training center, the reason why it was unique was, and we got awarded $2 million to build this out already is our, the money was going to go to one building, the center. But then most importantly it was going to go to purchasing the houses that are around the center. And in this particular area of the community, it's kind of a, we'll just call it a very low rent area. And so, you know, these are houses that you know are $20,000 and you can, you know, so what I wanted to do was actually use our students to renovate the houses. So as you have students that are going through this trade school, they're learning plumbing, electrical, heating and air, sheetrock, bricklaying, woodworking. You're then using these students to walk across the street, you know, from 1:00 o' clock to 3:30 every day and okay, let's start replacing the heat and air in this house. Let's replace the electrical in this house and then you do it. And then we had already lined up the housing authority that would then take ownership of that house, rent it out and then put use that rent to put money back into the trade school. And you just keep doing this in perpetuity. It just keeps going and going and, and here's why that is so incredibly important. And I'm sure there's plenty of heating and air businesses out there and owners that would agree, I hope, I'm guessing that would agree with. What I'm about to say is that it really breaks my heart when I see so many individuals, men and women that will go through a trade school like let's say West Georgia Tech here, locally a technical college, a two year college, which is great. There's a lot of, a lot of trades where you can go and you can get your certification. Now us in Georgia, maybe we're different, but we don't really require much certification to do heating and air work. I mean it just, it is what it is. We require. You actually know what you're doing to do heating and air work. But that's different. But what breaks my heart is you have kids that are doing the right thing. They think they're, they're, they're not going to Auburn university and spending $50,000 a year, but they're, they're still, you know, it's still school full time, so they're probably still having to live at home with their mom and dad, which is okay, that's what they need to do. But then, so then they come and they work for me. And then the very first day, I send them out to a house and they crawl up under a crawl space that's 30 inches tall and wet and damp and it's got a dead rat in it. And they realize they do not do well with dead rats or spiders, you know, or the snake skin, you know, or I send them up in the attic and it's 143 degrees and they've never been in that, that was 143 degrees. And they realized real quick they just wasted two years of their life because they know how to do heating and air. They just can't physically do it in the environment they need to do it.

They're not getting the training that's giving them real life exposure to what the work actually is, right?

You can know how to do it in a book. You can even know how to do it in a lab with equipment. Standing up in the air conditioned room at 72 degrees. But lay on your side in a 29 inch crawl space and you're laying in 2 inches of mud that Might be a little bit of sewage, that's a different story. You just may not be cut out for that. That's hard, you know, So I think that's such a transformational way to not only transform an area. The idea of what I'm building out with a trade school is going to enhance thousands of students and their ability to be able to go straight out of high school. And I mean, if you can imagine going through three years of trade training in our industry and in the meantime, like, because part of this program is set up for internships during the summertime with the various surrounding heating and air, plumbing and electrical companies. I mean, we're talking about students that in today's market here in Lagrange, Georgia could be graduating and day one make $25 an hour. And for us here in Lagrange, Georgia, you know, $25 an hour, that's, you know, that would be equivalent of going to Atlanta and making $40, you know, so, and so, so not only are we solving the workforce development for our region, but we're giving so many students the ability to start off on a debt free career. They didn't have to go live with their parents for two extra years. They didn't have to get into $50,000 a year debt. You know, they're going straight to work, a productive member of society. And plus they're helping companies like me find employees. And then part of this also, this model, and this is how it also helps our existing trade partners is if you can, if you can teach high schoolers during the day. And that all comes with federal and state and local funding because those are high school students. Okay, so you're covering. All my business owners out there will understand what I'm about to say. You're covering all your overhead for that facility and that teacher. Okay, now what happens when that organization that's running that facility, what happens now when they reach out to companies like me and they say, okay, this week guys, we're going to be doing this one training session, so send all of your service techs for these three days, just for these three nights, we're going to focus on this one thing, whatever that is, okay? Because that's, I don't want to, I can't send my guys to school for nine weeks, you know, but I can send them for four days to learn one thing and then come back and apply it for 30, 60 days and then go back and learn one more new thing. You know, that way this company can turn this into a for profit center because they're going to charge me to send my text to come and get training. But they're not going to charge me as much because they've already covered the overhead with the 457 students that are going through this school every week because I have it lined up. Eight different high schools are set to send their students to this facility. Wow. Wow.

I have nothing to say. I just want to say, wow, that's so brilliant. And I just, I cannot emphasize enough. We actually have another episode coming out in this season that will be before yours where Tom Howard, our VP of customer experience, talks about how he built a training school and he had his first year students or his first few months, his first graduating class. And then the summer hit in Fresno and half of them quit because they did not want to be in 130 degree addicts and they realized this is not the work for me. And so since then he's made modifications. But I have heard that before and I think that's actually a really brilliant solution and also I think a great way to market this career to high schoolers to get them interested in what they can do within their community and also building up low rent properties in a way that more people may be interested in living there. Because it sounds like two, you may be. Well, actually let me know if you, if this is the case for you. And we might cut this because it's a little out of what this podcast is normally about. But do you find that a lot of young people who are born in your town, in your county, do they, A lot of them tend to go to Atlanta or go to big cities. Are you having, are you struggling with keeping young people local?

That's a great question. And unfortunately I'm part of the people that get asked to solve that problem here locally, just in the various boards that I do sit on. It is a issue for us, but it's really more on the professional end of things. And that's really part of the reason why it's so valuable to have a trades school here is because typically speaking, the individual that is a service tech, just a hard working type of guy or gal, you know, they're not going off to take this one engineering job in Chicago, you know, so we need to make sure they have plenty of good opportunities locally to stay and we have great opportunity in our area anyway. And it's part partly due to our industrial base because there, I mean the jobs are so in need. I mean anybody, if you're making less than $15 an hour, I mean you.

Don'T come to Troop County.

Yeah. Trust me. But there again. And plus, our cost of living is nothing compared to, you know, the Oregons and Atlantas.

Chicago's in the world, the Los Angeles. When you said a house for $20,000, I nearly fainted. We would have had to take this podcast on another day.

That doesn't work for me personally because here, because of our business and our growth and we've had to grow. I mean we had. I felt so bad because we didn't. We grew so fast that I had about 40 people parking across the street in a church parking lot that just was very kind to us and let us use their parking lot for years. And I finally had to break down and buy three of those crack houses behind my office. And I ended up paying about 60 grand for a $20,000 crack house. But that's a whole other issue. But now I have a parking lot.

Now you have the parking lot. We this has been a really fun conversation. I want to give you the opportunity to talk about anything that you want to talk about that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. So is there anything else that you would like to say?

Well, it's a very extensive conversation, but I would like to talk about maybe a whole separate podcast and just talking about what we're doing to serve the special needs families in our community and through our tents. And I'm working on a partnership right now that is going to include some of our national partners in the H Vac industry. And it, I think it is just going to be absolutely amazing how we're able to our industry will be able to change the world for millions of people. And I'm super excited about that. But we'll probably have to wait and go into that in a different, a different day.

Okay, no problem. Do you want to give a quick preview as to what, what it is or you just want to keep everyone guessing? I'm fine either way.

Well, maybe a shorter story would be without getting into the big, the big picture future, where we're going with it. But where it started was and I hope that maybe my heating and air brothers out there and sisters hear me. But like I mentioned earlier, I have a severely autistic son. He's 14 years old now and even for a 14 year old, he's still rather small. He's about the same size as my now nine year old son. But anyway, he's 14 now. And back in 2017, one of the things that we do is we sponsor the county wide Fireworks show for our county. And so it's out in the middle, out by the lake and it's just a big old humongous open field and there's thousands of people that come for the fireworks every fourth of July. This was the very first year that our company had sponsored the fireworks. It was 2017 and so I wanted to do like a barbecue for all of our staff and I didn't want our staff sitting out in the middle of a hot field on July 4th, you know, so I was like, look, we got to figure out a way to Air Condition 10. You know, of course this is all like the day before. And of course also the day before I'm out there, you know, everybody's figuring, you know, put, setting up tables and chairs and, and it occurred to me, I said, you know, looking around, how, how am I going to bring my own family out here? How is my son going to come and spend all day in this open field? And for those of, you know, without getting into the nitty gritty. But I think we need to get into the nitty gritty sometimes. For me, what that means is that anytime I take my son who's 14 and you know, at least £100 anywhere for more than two hours, he's gonna, he's gonna wet his diaper and if I can't change that diaper, then it's going to wet his clothes and it's going to become obvious and you know, for a special needs family, it's embarrassing and you know, it's just not good for him. And so therefore I need somewhere to change his diaper. But you don't. There's just not anywhere to change a 14 year old's diaper, especially at an outdoor event even, I would argue even in 95 of the indoor events, because you still don't want to take your 14 year old son and lay him down on the floor of a public restroom. It's obviously better than laying him on the floor of a Porta John's outside, but it's still a public restroom. And so I'm thinking in my head, well, how in the world can my own family come out here? So that's when the idea hit me is if we're going to air condition this, and this was a big old humongous tent because it was going to hold all 60 or 80 of our staff at that time. I said, why don't we set up this other little small tent over in the corner and with walls on it, just a little ten by ten pop up tent with walls on it and put a cot inside that room. And now when I need to change my son's diaper, I can take him in there and it's a six foot long cottage, I can lay him down on it and I can change his diaper. Or other family members could come in and you know, maybe there's nursing mothers that want to come in and just sit down and nurse their baby in private or maybe there's, you know, other families that have children in wheelchairs and feeding tubes and you know, so. But it really was a very eye opening even for me especially means family. It occurred to me, and this is the overarching principle of what I'm trying to address is no one, I'm not, it's not that no one cares, but no one sees special needs families because they're not there. And so therefore no one ever does anything to provide services for special needs families because they're never there at knocking, asking, I need this service. See, people that need wheelchairs can be 100% normal. They just need a wheelchair so they can fight their own battle. So guess what? We have wheelchair ramps everywhere. We have handicapped parking spots everywhere. But what happens when that special needs family wants to go, they want to go watch fireworks but they're too embarrassed to show up, so they're not there demanding the services that it would be required for them to be there. Where's that family? At the restaurant? They're not there because it's too difficult to wait for their table to open up. It's too embarrassing to deal with their child halfway through dinner that has a meltdown or they don't want to deal with the physical issue and emergency that might come up. So what we started doing was we committed that we set up a tent. So we went out and bought dozens of. We went through a lot of 20 by 40 tents at first. We set up this big old huge train air conditioner with this big old whole house generator that was super loud and super long, super expensive and. But we set it up at every single outdoor public event for free. And so every single event had an air conditioned tent and it had that other tent on the inside. And that's the message I'm trying to share with the public is to think about that family member, that cousin that you have, that you know they have an autistic child. But for some reason they just stopped coming to family events. They just stopped coming to little Johnny's baseball games. But it was because their child, oh, wait a minute, they got to be about 67 years old. They got to be too big to handle. They got to be too big to be able to deal with X, Y or Z. That might happen. And so that's like the vision for my tents that we would set up. And it really. It's so hard to communicate with people, so you have to tell them a thousand times over and over and over again. But so many people, when they show up to an event and they see my tent, and they'll say, I saw your tent. Yeah, but no one was in there. No one was in there using your tent. And I say, good, that's great. I said, but what you have to realize is, look around. How many families were there only because the tent was there, they didn't need it. Good. I don't want them to have to use it. But if it's not there, they can't show up. Because what will happen? What will happen? It happens so often as you go to, as a special needs family, go to so much trouble to get your child up, to get them dressed, to get them in the car, and to physically walk from this point in the parking lot to whatever event you're going to. And that's a struggle. And then all of a sudden it rains or they. Something happens and you're like, I give up. I'm going back home. But instead, if my tent's there, they can just say, oh, guess what? I'm just gonna go calm down in this tent. I'm gonna go deal with this issue in this tent. And they do. They have that opportunity, and then they can hopefully get back to whatever they were doing. But the point is that I'm trying to change their mindset to where just because they have a special needs child doesn't mean that they also can't show up for that Alzheimer's walk because they also lost their dad to Alzheimer's. Point is that I'm trying to change their mindset to where just because they have a special needs child doesn't mean that they also can't show up for that Alzheimer's walk because they also lost their dad to Alzheimer's five years ago. They also might have lost their mom to breast cancer. And they want to show up and support that. You know, why can they not do that anymore just because they have an autistic child? You know, and so this started with the tent. It started with that principal of the tent. And now we're working on a partnership with Auburn University and another national partner, and we're looking to. We're looking to basically transform the way special needs families are cared for across the country. And it's pretty cool.

I don't think it's pretty cool. I think it's extraordinary. And I just want to thank you for going into that. I can tell how passionate you are about this, Dale. And as you're talking, I just want to thank you for opening my eyes and for the folks listening to this podcast about the challenges your family faces and how with just a few simple innovations, they can start being part of the community in a. More. They can be part of the community more. And I think that's a beautiful thing. So I really want to applaud you for the work you're doing, and I can't wait to see where that goes. So thank you so much for sharing. I'm excited for you. Okay, we're gonna end with my favorite question of all time. If you had to choose a song to be the soundtrack of your life, Dale, what would it be?

Oh, holy crap. Gosh, I don't even know how I would answer that question. You know, I. And this is a big passion of mine, and I don't. I don't even care if this sounds kind of wonky or I am the last person you would probably think of when you think of, like, the man in black. Especially in my industry, people give me a hard time about. I've been wearing suits for 15 years. I was way too young, and I looked like. When I first started managing, I looked like I was 12 and I was managing, you know, 50 year olds. And so I. My philosophy was, look, I'm dressing for the job I want. I'm building my job, and I built my company, and now I don't have to crop under houses anymore. And I don't apologize for that. But. But my drive for that is. Is my staff and so. So many. And I would. I would caution or. Or urge other business owners, especially right now, because I know I. You're getting emails every single day about selling your company, and everybody's trying to buy. Investment money is out the wazoo, okay? And maybe you already make enough money, okay? But here's what I'm most passionate about is the day. The day I say I make enough money and I don't want any more headaches and I don't want to grow anymore. That's the day I tell every single one of the 87 people that work for my company, you no longer get to grow. You no longer get to get a pay raise anymore. You no longer get to strive to be that new position. And that's what I'm passionate about. And so many people in our industry, the owners hold back our staff because we make enough money. Well, I don't give a crap if you make enough money. What about the other people that have broken their back for you for the past 15, 20 years? What are they going to do 10, 15 years down the road if you say, I don't need any more business, you know, and. And that's just what I'm passionate about. So I wouldn't say that man in Black is my theme song, but I just. I hope that you could ask every single person that works directly with me and they know that I'm passionate about giving them the opportunity to grow. And if you don't want that opportunity, I am very passionate about showing you the door.

Got it. I love that. I love that song, too. I think that's the first Johnny Cash submission we've gotten since I've been asking this question, so I'm happy about it. Dale Jackson, it was an absolute pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for being a guest on Toolbox for the trades.

You're welcome. Thank you.