Why You Need a Company Vision | Podcast Ep. 58 | Toolbox for the Trades

Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's webinar, a live conversation with Chris Hunter and Ben Stark, the co authors of It's Go Time. Ben Stark and Chris Hunter share insights and strategies to help your home service company succeed. My name is Jackie Aubel. I'm the senior content marketing manager here at ServiceTitan and the moderator of today's panel. Our goal today is to share some key insights that you can use to sustainably grow your service business. And honestly, I do not think there is a duo more suited to talk about this topic than Chris and Ben. In case you don't know, Chris and Ben have known each other for a long time. In fact, Ben was one of Kris's most influential mentors. Both men have impressive trade careers who started out as young H Vac technicians and later went on to build and sell businesses of their own. In an effort to give back to the industry that gave them so much, the duo co founded the Go Time Success Group, a business consulting and coaching firm that also offers technician training services. Today, both Ben and Chris work to support the service industry, and a big part of that was releasing their book to the masses. Their Pathway to success wasn't just about luck. It was hard work, repeatable systems, processes and procedures that both Ben and Chris believe any contractor can leverage to build a phenomenal business. Ben Stark and Chris Hunter. Welcome. Welcome to the webinar.

Thanks, Jackie.

Thanks for having us. I don't know if you noticed though, Jackie, but Ben has been my mentor so long that I'm trying to get a little gray going to match my mentors going. So I'm getting there.

Ben, I can see it. I can see it molding. I think maybe just a couple more.

Years rubbing off on him.

Yeah.

So let's kick things off with an easy question. Maybe Chris, you can kick this off. How did you two meet?

Yeah, so I joined as a young contractor.

Not knowing what in the world I.

Was doing, I joined the Service Nation Alliance. And the first thing that they do is they send you to a boot camp. And this boot camp is basically business 101. Everything that I didn't know about operating a business. And there's Ben Stark. He's up there talking and teaching us the class. And he had already been down the road that I wanted to go, so I immediately just like, oh man, this guy's so wise. I need to learn from whatever he was saying. So I just soaked it up. So that was probably in 2000, I want to say maybe 2011, maybe 2012, sometime around that area There.

Got it. Ben, anything you want to add to that story?

I don't know. I'm kind of the same origin, though. Got involved in a alliance early in my career when I was a struggling contractor, and I was able to listen guys like, you know, Ron Smith and Jim Abrams and John Young, and they. They were very impressive. And. And I kind of learned the same ropes as what Chris is talking about. You know, it's all about giving a little bit back when you have it 100%.

I am always so blown away. I say this all the time. How much contractors want to help other contractors to succeed, because it's so this thing where it's like, once you get it, once you get the business, then you're off to the races, and it definitely sounds like you guys have done that. So before we get into the book, I still want to dive in a little bit more to the relationship. So, Chris, can you share with me? Once you approached Ben and were like, I need to know this guy. He needs to be my mentor, what was one of the most impactful things you learned from him?

Yeah, so at the time, I was working really hard, right? I mean, so I was. And, yeah, I would make decent money some weeks, and then other times, I felt like, oh, my gosh, I'm putting in all this effort, and we're growing. We're serving a lot of customers, but where's the money, right? I mean, and then I looked at Ben, and Ben, I think, was on the. On his. He'd already sold two or three companies by this time, and a multimillionaire. So right away, I was, like, infatuated with that, thinking, what am I doing wrong? I'm working. You know, I can probably work just as hard as what he's working, but what's the difference here? So one thing that Ben really taught me was a couple really key things. But one, Ben did that on purpose because he planned for it, and he started with that end in mind. And just hearing that concept was kind of revolutionary to me, just because I was so in the moment just focusing on that. So that was his plan, was to build and sell and create uncommon wealth. So I was really, really drawn to that. I wanted to figure that out. So that was one of the major things. But there was one other thing that was really key, and it still helps me to this day. At the time, it was so easy for me to attach even my identity to the business. You know, like, this is my baby. You know, I'm growing this thing. And I was so emotionally attached to it. But Ben taught me that businesses are their own living, breathing entity. And it's your job, while you're the steward of it, to grow this thing and use it to help you accomplish your personal goals. But it is its own thing and you can release it to the next generation of leaders. So that was a big, kind of an emotional wall for me to get over because before it was just me, you know, I felt attached to the company. He helped me to see it as two different things.

I absolutely love that for so many reasons. The main thing is it feels like you kind of. Ben helped you get out of that mentality of having that hustle mindset and start thinking in a more forward thinking mindset. I think that a lot of people get caught up in that. As long as I work hard, like, I'll just keep doing it, keep doing it. But you really end up burning yourself out if you're not being intentional about what you're working on.

100%. Yeah. And Ben is an EMED certified coach, so they call it going from the technician mindset to the entrepreneur or the visionary. So, yeah, that was a big switch.

I love that. Now, Ben, on the flip side, I would love to learn, what was it about Chris that made you want to accept him as a mentee? Because a lot of folks are trying to find resources in this industry. So what was it about Chris that you were like, all right, I'm going to help this guy out?

Well, I mean, I've gone to a lot of people and, you know, I've been all over the. Actually all over the world, you know, studying other companies along with, you know, trying to help them come along. So, you know, one thing that struck me about Chris that was so, I think revolutionary in my mind was the fact that, you know, I thought I took pretty aggressive action. My action a lot of times turned into a lot of failures too. So I was trying stuff and following my face. And, you know, Chris kind of the neat thing about Chris is, you know, I thought I was pretty fast, but Chris is like light speed when it comes to implementing new ideas, making adjustments, and, you know, kind of figuring out pretty quick, you know, are they going to work, are they not going to work? And so, you know, my study of Chris has been, you know, has been kind of like, you know, draw it out, plan it out, execute it. Surround yourself with the right people to make sure that you have every chance that you have at success of what you're trying to do. And I kind of had some of those metal blocks. Chris Was great in growing not just one company, but expanding divisions in his company and then expanding his companies to multiple locations because he was in a relatively small marketplace where with me I had a large marketplace, but I struggled with even expanding trades in my company. So I was a, you know, I know I did real good in H Vac, but I challenged, I was challenged in converting my success into the plumbing or the electrical business until I kind of got with Chris and kind of saw, you know, how you implement this and surround yourself with the right people. I think that's a true attribute to what he does. He attracts the right people to him.

So, Chris, you know, you always credit Ben for being your mentor, but it sounds like you were a bit of a mentor yourself. And also I will, I will underline that point. Now, working with Chris for over a year, Ben, he is certainly an implementer and that I think is really the key, key, key to trying new systems and processes, trying new ways of doing business and actually seeing if they work. Go for it, Chris.

Well, just on that thought, I think any great relationship, it's a win, win on both sides, right? So, I mean, that's why no matter if a contractor is just getting started or they're the biggest, most successful one out there, there's value to be had in every conversation and every relationship. So. Yeah. So thank you.

Learn from the people you surround yourself with. I mean, even if you're trying to help them to move to something else. My goal is to find something every day that I'm putting in my pocket to find, you know, to see if it fits, make notes, state journaled entries, whatever it may be. So you can always reflect upon something that you're learning.

I love that. And I've heard this before. It's. You're the summation of the six people you spend the most time with. It's so true. Right, so let's go to the book. So, Chris, maybe you can go first. What was it? What made you to decide, okay, we developed the Go Time success group. What drove you to want to write a book that more folks could access?

Well, with Ben and I both, we had wanted to do this personally for a long time, just to give back. It's kind of a legacy thing too. So, I mean, you can have this passed down to kids or to other people. But so he contacted me. He's like, I got this idea. I'm like, I got the same idea. He's like, let's just do it. So we created like a shared Dropbox and six months went By. And I think both of us had, like, one document with, like, three quarters of a page. So I was like, all right, this is a lot harder than it looks. So that's why we got Dave Rothker to come in. So Dave then took us on a journey for almost two years. He would just have a zoom call with us, and we would interview and talk about all the lessons we learned throughout the years in each one of these areas. So that made it much simpler because without. Without his help, I'm not sure we could have pulled it off.

Yeah, Dave Rothiker, definitely. I mean, books are hard. I think that's what any writer will tell you is writing a book is really, really difficult. Anything that you want to add to that story, Ben?

I mean, other than. It's like Chris said, we had our mind, we knew what we wanted to create. We had a plan. We even had probably chapters kind of lined out. But truthfully, Dave Rothker is a wordsmith, and he put it all together and made it really happen for us, and it was a great experience. Even though it took longer than we all expected it to take, it was, I think, well worth it because of the depth that we went into thinking about what we were putting down there.

Well, Jackie, I think there's a lesson to be learned for contractors there as well, because a lot of times we have this vision in our head what we want our business to be, and then when it doesn't equate to that, there's frustration. Right. It takes a while. So sometimes you do have to bring in an outside source to help you get this thing turning and moving. And that's exactly what now Ben and the rest of the team at gotime do as well.

I love that. I'm so happy you made that distinction, because in all the conversations I've had with, contractors, usually find that folks fall into one of two camps, and it's the visionary or the implementer, and you usually need a mix of the two, I think, to really make a business soar. So let's go into some of the core tactics within the book. So, Ben, why don't you take this question first. Tell me about the importance of developing your company's vision, mission, core values. Why is it so important for owners to establish this?

Well, I think, you know, a business is a. Is a, you know, kind of a consolidation of a lot of best practices. So until you know what your company is about, your core values, where you're going with it, what you're about, are you a money machine that just burns through customers. Are you a wealth machine that grows and develops relationships with customers? I think a lot of best practices that you choose to work through in your company all hinge upon things like, you know, does it fit the culture of your company? So it is so very key that you. I think in your, you know, we do a lot of annual planning. I've done annual planning for over 30 years, and it's always evolving. So started off as writing things on big tablets and rolling them up and opening them back up next year. You know, now it's all gone to the process of using, you know, software and computers that we implement our ideas and where we want to achieve our goals into our daily use of dispatch software. So there's a lot of things that are involved in it. And I think that's really kind of my core feeling on knowing where you're going before you start heading out. Like you said earlier, you're always trying to, you know, have your vision, share it with people. So people are buying in to the big picture of the program, so they actually see a reason to stick around with you. I mean, the grass is always greener when some guy comes up and says, oh, I'm, you know, I'm gonna give you 10 more dollars an hour to.

Come to work for me.

You know, that doesn't really fit the situation around here because we're trying to build a true wealth future not just for, you know, myself, the company, but also each individual in the company trying to show them how to, you know, figure out a way to get them to buy into what our big vision is in the company. I think that's the important part of the vision and the writing it out and the annual planning and all the other good things that go along with it and tying it into, you know, advanced software, some type that helps you achieve what your goals are.

I love that, because the way I think you just described that is the culture, which is defined by the vision, mission, and core values, is kind of like the big umbrella that goes along everything. And before you decide to make anything, whether that be to maybe open into a new market or a vertical or to adopt new software or to, I don't know, go through a certain training program, you all have to see if it goes back up to the culture. And I think that really provides a nice compass moving forward. Am I right in kind of summarizing that?

Exactly. And somewhere you've got to get in writing because it has so much to do with, you know, when you're bringing a new employee in, you Know, are you immediately starting to develop that culture in that person and get them to see it? So it's got to be in writing and it's got to be repeated in training and everything else so that you're always reminding people of the direction you're going in.

I love that. Chris, would you mind sharing a little bit about how you took these ideas of vision, mission and core values and how you implemented them at your company?

Yeah, so it's just like if you're going on a journey, right, you want to know, where are we going, why are we going there and how do we get there, you know, what's the logistics of it? So that's really where this was. Ben talks about, you know, hey, Chris, could take action quickly. But the thing is, if you, if you have these defined, there's a whole lot of clarity. So you spend a whole lot less time chasing things and wondering, how do we get there? Why are we going there when you have these things defined? So another thing with like even the vision or the mission when you're creating it, most people never even ask themselves, really, why are they in business? I find that so mind boggling. But I was the same. And you ask them, so what's your purpose for your own life? Or why are you in this business? Why did you create it? And they really never even stopped to think about it other than they wanted to make some money, you know, maybe. So just stepping back and starting there as a foundation, so critical. And then for me personally, I even tied my company's vision or mission to even my personal one, you know, so I was a man of faith. So I actually married the two together a little bit. So I knew that for us, we wanted to keep customers comfortable, save them money, do it better than anyone else, and honor God while we did it. So that was the mission of the company. And the vision was to get really good, which means develop systems and perfect our craft, develop leaders, and then duplicate in similar areas. So there was no question about why are we doing this and where are we going. It just gave us a whole lot of clarity.

And I imagine that your employees all were able to identify with that on some aspect. I mean, you mentioned you were a faith based company for technicians who are also similarly faith based. That probably meant a lot to them that you had that in that mission and that vision, right?

Well, both. I mean, so technically, I mean, I, I'd like to say all of them were that had the same philosophies as me or thoughts, but they didn't. And that's okay. But they knew exactly what I stood for, and there was no question. And if you think about it, it all came down to could they trust me, you know, and was I going to do the right thing? And that was. That was one of our key values, was you always do what's right, you'll never be wrong, and, you know, I'll always have their back if they do the right thing. So that's how I was able to kind of tie those two things in. And it helped with the culture. It really did.

And one indication of Chris, too, is that it kind of drew that type of people to it to him, because he was very upfront and honest about where he was going with it.

Yeah, it's a magnet. Your culture, no matter what, it's a magnet. Either a good magnet or repelling magnet. Right.

So, yeah, that's a really good point. And I also love. At the beginning of your answer, Chris, you talked about answering the question, why am I in business? Because I think it's true. So many times we find ourselves at jobs or doing tasks, and we kind of stop for a second and we go, wait, why am I doing this? And I think that's a really important question that folks need to answer, not only when they start a business business, but also as the business is growing and evolving. So let's talk about. In the book, you guys talk about a strategy folks can use to ignite recruits. And I thought that was really interesting language. So, Chris, why don't you mind explaining that for me?

Well, I mean, so it basically takes. Is right off of what you just talked about. So it's connecting the dots, right? So if your company's got a mission, a vision, and a value system, a culture that is attracting in. So now that you get them in, how are you going to really ignite this passion in them? And the way you do it really is you find out what's most important to them, and then you connect the dots between their personal goals and your company's goals. And when these two meet, that's really where magic happens. And so much of it comes from one asking them, you know, and having a system in place to even identify what is important to them. What are their work goals, their personal goals, what do they want to improve in, you know, things like this and being. I've mentioned this before to you, Jackie. I think we even had like a vision board, you know, where we. We asked these questions, displayed it, and then for me, I got to spend a lot of time connecting. Connecting those dots so if somebody wanted to take their kids to Disneyland and I could show them how, if we perform in this area and then they hit these numbers and this could happen, there's the money to connect, to get them to Disneyland, and it gives a way to ignite that passion. And then Ben talks about four toolboxes, and it really goes into having a system to not just build technicians, but really reach in and connect at so many different levels. In fact, Ben's got a poster behind him there. It's got the four. Four toolboxes. But you can tell them about that if you'd like to, Ben.

Well, I think it's kind of the philosophy of trying to break things down where it's pretty easy for them to remember the fundamentals. And, you know, Chris is great about, with his analogies and everything he does about building, you know, a simplest simplistic framework, so it's easy for people to see, remember, and duplicate. So, you know, our four toolboxes, you know, of everything we do is kind of like, you know, with the, with the physical toolbox, it's having the right tools and knowing how to go out in the field and use these tools to the best of their ability. So it helps them to move through their jobs quicker, you know, and then whatever project it is, you know, if it's changing a, you know, capacitor or toilet seat or whatever it may be, you know, having the correct stuff to move through there quick, then it's having knowledge about what you're doing. And that's a lot about. What our training is based upon is teaching everything, everything and every little aspect of all these different tasks that they've got to go out there and perform. And then you can have all the knowledge in the world. But if you don't have the communication toolbox, you know, you can't really transfer this on a, on a personal level to that customer where they comprehend what you're talking about without talking over their head. So it's important for us to teach the, you know, the toolbox, the knowledge about the knowledge toolbox, the communication toolbox. And then the most important one of all is the mindset toolbox. You know, you know, you start towards a job, My job is, you know, not cooling, air conditioner or whatever it be, hot water heater, not heating. And you, as you're heading to the job, you start to think about what the process you're going to start going through at this job. And the mindset is, you know, you step out of that truck and you turn off all the bad things in your, in your life and you kick on the professionals. Turn, turn the professional light switch on to where you're approaching that job with a clear head every time you walk to it so that you are successful at what you're doing and you're not letting all the things on the outside of your life influence what you're trying to do to make yourself better and grow your wealth as an individual.

I love that. Go for it, Chris.

No, I was going to say, I know Jackie loved that last point because she is 100% in line with that mindset toolbox.

Oh, my goodness. I love the mindset toolbox. I have some. I won't go off on too many tangents, so I want to keep on task, but I just wanted to recap there. The physical, the knowledge, the communications and the mindset toolbox. I think those are all great. And not only can they be applied to the service industry, but also other industries.

I started off with three toolboxes and then I thought, this is not complete, you know, and then it was like, it is that mindset toolbox that ties everything together.

Well, like anyone from the trade, you got to keep buying toolboxes. I mean, that's what happens.

So, Ben, I would love to hear, I mean, Chris alluded that you've been doing this a little bit longer than he has. How has recruiting in the trades evolved since you first started?

Back before. When we had stone tablets, you mean?

Yeah, when you had stone tablets, had a chisel on them with a hammer and a nail.

Yeah, I think, you know, years ago, of course it was running ad in newspaper and you hope to get the right person. But over the years, the development of everything, it's kind of like marketing. You know, how many different ways can you market. It's kind of like how many different ways can you draw employees in now? So there's the Internet, the, you know, the ads, whatever it may be. And I think really what we've developed and been successful more than anything with is growing the culture of our business to where people are attracted to us. You know, one of the first things I did when I started this, my last company, Sunny Service, was at the same time we opened Sunny Service up, we opened up Growth and Profit Systems, which was a training arm. And then we started trying to help train people. And of course it evolved to go time success group with Chris, you know, coming in. And so now it's like, you know, we try to build a culture where people are knocking on our doors to come to workforce and it really is something that I think that companies to be very successful for long amounts of time and grow to the plateaus where it's very possible to do. I mean, it's not hard to be a 10 million dollar a year company these days. I mean it's hard, but it's with a plan and with, and with the strategy. In 10 years you could be a 10 million dollar company. And a lot of companies have done it and are doing it. So it's taking all the marketing mechanisms and having developed training programs that, you know, once a guy learns something about the job he's doing and he's very successful and he masters what he's doing, he steps into another area, he mentors somebody to come in and part of his job is trying to find a recruiting mechanism where maybe you pay this guy a piece of what this other, this guy he's bringing in earns. And while he's mentoring him, he earns off of it as well. So it's something that there's just a lot of different layers to what you can do to continue to keep that flow of people, you know, knocking on your door to come to work for you and you know, use the assets that you have. You know, you develop good strong people. And when you develop good, strong people coming into your company, you want to replicate that. So what better source to use than the people that the good people that you already have. Rewarding them, right is a big part of it too.

I actually, I want to keep on that because that's a really great point and it goes perfect segue into my next question, Ben, which is setting up a successful training plan in place for new recruits. So talk to me about what that looks like, you know, when we actually get into the brass tacks of it. What kind of suggestions do you make to your clients now and what did you find was successful at your business and also at Chris's?

Well, I think, you know, with our business, I mean we, we built a small lab and, and we started putting training, you know, writing things down. You know, it's, it's creating a training manual, you know, what, what you're going to do next week. And we build a training calendar at the beginning every year that kind of coincides with, with the extreme weather or the mild weather. You know, if it's, you know, springtime, we're training about tune ups. If it's summertime, we're training about, you know, how to prevent callbacks. And as we're starting to go into the slow season, we start training about Things that they typically wouldn't be talking about to a customer. So it may be duct cleaning or attic insulation or some other venture that we're trying to maximize our labor force all times of the year, even in the times of the year where our, you know, our peak extreme season is not working for us. So it's just good training manuals and having, you know, doesn't even have to be an elaborate lab. It can be a very small one, system working lab. But you're taking people and you're teaching them how to do things in these labs to help them be more successful out in the field, teaching them how to use meters and communicate and knowledge all the toolboxes you're working on.

Got it. And am I correct in the training schedule? Basically shifts in the weather, especially for H Vac.

Yeah, weather. And, you know, like I said, different, you know, peak times of the year, slow times of year. I think the most important thing a successful company can probably do is make sure that every single day of the year, you're working on having that, you know, that service tech, at least on three calls a day, that salesman on two leads a day, that install crew on one replacement a day. So, you know, you know, the whole success, you know, structure and vision of what we're trying to do is to keep things moving and rolling. So in our business, we've got to kind of switch avenues a little bit of what we do. Sometimes it may be, you know, just repair work. Sometimes it may be more geared upon, you know, a few different odd things that we normally don't do in the peak season of what we trained to do. So just keeping the trucks rolling is, I think, the most successful thing you can do to keep above that break even mark. Because when you're in the heating and air conditioning business, anytime you drop below break even, you got to pay yourself back out of the money that you're making in the good times. So it's always good to be above break even.

Jackie, let me throw one extra on the training calendar. So Ben mentioned doing it in coordination with your seasons, but I would encourage people to be intentional about coordinating even with your marketing. So, for example, whatever the marketing special is for this month, the month before, we should probably have trained very heavily on that subject. So then that way when the text or ground force is out there, they actually know what they're talking about really well. And to back that up, to be intentional about budgeting for training, because nothing happens unless it's scheduled or you have it in the budget. So people Are like, well, what do I budget for training? I've got kind of an odd one, but I'm a firm believer in this. But whatever you spend on marketing, you should probably budget half of that for training. So therefore, if your marketing budget goes up because you're wanting to get aggressive, well, you better make sure you train even more on it, because our ground troops are gonna have to maximize these dollars. So if you're spending 10% on marketing budget, 5% for your training. Ben also has a good rule of thumb, kind of for what to budget for training. But, Ben, you have that off the top of your head. What?

Well, it's kind of like you either can do it off the percentage of revenue they bring in or. Or a percentage of what you pay them, but somewhere between half and 1%, you kind of are always marketing. We sometimes go as high as 3% because it's just we feel that maybe we didn't have a very profitable year and maybe it was because we had too many callbacks or too many odd things that the quality control wasn't there. So anytime I've invested in the training side of my business, my quality control has always improved, which has put more to the bottom line, because there's nothing worse to your bottom line than having problems in the field that you're having to continuously waste time and assets. Because when your assets are out there fixing something you've already done one time, they're taking away from the assets that you could be producing money with new money with new customers.

And Jackie, too, training wise. Now, it's not just about the technician. So technology, like our service software, service that plays such a big part of this, that ought to be scheduled as well. We ought to have a very dedicated training effort on maximizing this thing. Because, I mean, if you think about what it does for your company, if you're ignoring making that part of your trip training plan, you're handicapping yourself right off the bat.

I'm so happy that you guys said that. It's almost like, I don't know, like, different departments in a company should talk to each other and, like, plan accordingly. Like, crazy, crazy idea. Let's hop on software real quick because I know, Ben, you've seen, like, a lot of changes in just the way work gets done. Talk to me about how important it is to leverage technology to help with this process. And, Chris, because you were the one who just mentioned service titan and how that worked for your company and for a lot of your clients, you can take it from there.

Okay.

Well, the you know, on software, you know, where we go with software. Like you said, I've been on all different types and I've probably been on, I don't know, probably six different dispatch type softwares and couple of different accounting softwares. And I think the progression of what's happening is that the more advanced that you get and pieces of the puzzle that are available that you can either implement or not implement to fit the type of business you're in right now is very, very important asset to have. And that's kind of where we are right now in our software is some things. We're still a relatively small company, we're under 5 million, and we're not using a lot of the pieces of software that we have available to us because we really don't need them at this point. But so software, you know, and having the pieces that you can turn on and off, you know, is I think, a very important mechanism to have available to you. And as far as numbers, I mean, that's what it's all about. You can't really sit down and counsel, you know, a technician or a CSR or salesman on where they should be if you don't have accurate numbers going into it, because then you're not accurately showing, you know, what's legitimately achievable and what's on the outside of the envelope that, you know, probably is not going to be obtainable. So, you know, and the truth about the success with people is small steps get you big results, I think.

Yeah, well, piggyback off that. So if you go back to my vision at Hunter, you know, we were 25,000 people in the little town that I was in. So I knew that, oh man, if I'm gonna create anything of size, of enterprise value, I'm gonna have to figure out how to expand. Right? So with leveraging software, it helped really accomplish what Michael Gerber calls the people law. And just to summarize what Michael Gerber in the E Myth says about it, I'll mess the quote up, but basically it says whenever you have intelligent systems and processes in place, every time you add a person into those systems, you can expand your reach, and you can expand your reach almost indefinitely. So I think about what I was able to do with my vision, which was get really good, which was to have systems and processes, develop leaders, the people, and then expand into neighboring areas. Well, I was able to use software as a tool to be able to do that. Because now during that development of the leaders, I could say, hey, I want you to go to this neighboring area. But guess what? We're going to be able to do everything from our home location, because all the stuff that most people that go into business don't like, like all of the dispatching, the record keeping, the billing, all of that stuff, the call take, we'll do it at the central location. All I need you to focus on is growing in your community and your team. And we had visibility into every location that we had because of service time and being able to see it instantly. So I'm a huge fan of leveraging software. It's essentially a way to leverage and maximize your systems. That's the way that I see it. It helps out. And now that they're getting smart, too, I mean, I get to see behind the fence here at Service Titan, but the power of data and data that's coming in to help you make intelligent decisions in creating this extraordinary customer experience and making it repeatable every time. It's why these people are growing so fast these days.

Yeah, very true.

That's a really good call out. Chris, real quickly, I want to talk to you both about two more big, big topics. And the first one, because you just mentioned it, Chris is entering into new markets and verticals, which is something that you also talk about in the book. So how should folks start thinking about that if they're like, they've maybe mastered their one location or they've mastered one service and they're thinking, okay, what's next? I want to keep growing. I want to keep challenging. Like, where do they start when they're considering that you hit the nail?

Go ahead.

I'm sorry. I think, like, what you say is the key to it is mastering what you really do to begin with the best. I know Chris is going to say that because that's what he did, because that's where I made my mistake. I tried something even though I was mastering what I do, but I still didn't have the success because I don't think I surrounded myself with the right people. That was my failure in that area. But you're right.

What Chris is going to say here is, I love that you were thinking the same thing when Jackie said that, because it's easy to look on social media and see all of these people that are, like, just fired up a new location here, started plumbing here, did this there, and you kind of. And a lot of contractors like, what's wrong with me? Maybe I should be doing that. And yet their market share in their original area is so small. Or maybe they didn't have these Intelligent turnkey systems like Michael Gerber talks about in place yet. So it's absolutely the wrong thing to want to expand before one, you're pretty dominant, you've captured a good market share, or it's back to that, why am I expanding? Because it's going to be more headaches, it's going to be a challenge, it's going to divert your focus. But if your reasoning for doing it is worth it, then absolutely. So the tools are there. But I love how you started with that part because it is so key. Don't just do it because everyone else is doing it. Have a very valid reason why.

And when you, when you, when you know what your marketplace is, you know, like, I'm in the Dallas Fort Worth area, very, very large marketplace. I know I've got a focus on about a 10 to 20 zip code area. If I go to a 40 or 80 zip code area, whatever is available here, I'm not going to be very effective at what I do, and I'm certainly not going to be very profitable until I slowly grow out. But, you know, you can add more trades to the same customers and maximize what you do very efficiently. But you better have got your niche in your area, so your marketing is not costing you way too much money as well.

So it sounds like, master what you're doing, like, find the thing that is making you the company that is awesome. You know, it's your thing. And then once you've got that, that strong foundation, then it's time to think about, all right, what does my market look like? Does it make sense to expand out to 30 more zip codes or area code, one of the codes, or do I add another trade? And if I'm adding another trade, what do I have to do to do that trade just as well as I'm doing my current trade? And very happy that both of you called out. Not playing the comparison game on Facebook or on any social media platforms because you can't compare your life to someone's highlight reel. You just can't.

It's so true, Jackie. I mean, we've got the best companies in the industry on service titan, and I get to see how many of them are at different levels. And believe it or not, I mean, there is a significant amount of people that never make it above, you know, like a $5 million target. So it is sometimes it's easy to see people really excelling, and I want to learn from them. I mean, my gosh, I'm learning all I can, but I can't base my Worth or value on what someone else is doing?

Yep. All right, last bit of. The last topic I want to cover is Exiting with Grace and wealth, which you talk about in the book. So, Chris, because you've done this fairly recently, why don't you tell me about how you did it at Hunter Super Tax and what advice you would have for folks who are trying to do the same thing.

Yeah. So right now, there is a wave going through the industry where you'd be hard pressed to find any contractor that hasn't been approached with somebody wanting to sell. So the ultimate question is, why, you know, why would they sell at this time? And it went back to what Ben taught that first time that I met him. It was beginning with the end in mind. What is the strategy? What is the goal? So whenever I knew I was getting near that area, that's when I started kind of getting, all right, here we go. I'm zeroing in on where I wanted to be with it and started getting very intentional about getting ready, you know, to make that happen. Funny enough, sometimes if something just falls in your lap, it's not the right time, per se. For example, I remember a few years into my journey, I was offered like, a million dollars for the company.

And at the time, I was like.

Done.

Here we go. You know, I was thinking, wow, this is it. But ultimately, if you think about that, what is that going to look like after taxes? What is that going to mean for the rest of your life? Is that enough to sustain your lifestyle that you want? You've got to ask yourself these questions, because it's not all about that top number. It's about what's that number going to actually be when it's done right. But right now, luckily, thank goodness, I didn't take that offer and went on to do it later. But right now, there's a lot of interest in this industry. So Ellen Rohr at Pantheon talked about the window. So the window of opportunity is wide open. I mean, it's. It's as open as it's ever gonna get. There was a time where the window wasn't open and you couldn't sell a business if you wanted to. And how long will this window stay open? I mean, it's any. It's anybody's guess. So if your end goal is to create uncommon wealth and maybe take advantage of this window of opportunity, this may be a great time. But if you're not there yet and you still got a ways to go, really do the math before you just need your. Take a number.

Yeah. And I think that goes also back to annual planning, right. Which Ben was talking about at the beginning. When you, you are the owner of a business and you have this end goal in mind of where you want to be in your personal life, not just your professional, because your business is separate from you, like you said, Chris, you know, you think about what is the goal? Where do I want to live, what kind of lifestyle do I want to have, and what is the number that I'm looking to. And that will be kind of also what guides your planning, I would imagine, right?

100%. Yeah, exactly. And the decision, is this even what we want? And if so, have I developed the leaders to take it to the next level, you know, after, after I'm gone? Because it is its own living, breathing entity. And one other thought on that too, because I know this time of year is stressful for a lot of contractors. I've already, I've got messages already. We just got summer started. But they're like, man, I'd almost pay somebody to take my business right now. You know, that's the, that's the feeling. But my advice there is never make this major of a decision in a valley or in a time when you're really, really stressed, you know, so this is a big deal. And here's what you're going to find. Even after you exit a business, if you're a highly motivated person, you're going to be like me and Ben. You got to do something and you want to do something that matters, right? So that's why I'm here. That's why Ben's still doing what he's doing. So think about, it's not going to be, you're not going to be sipping martinis all the time at the beach or whatever. I guarantee you, if you're driven, you're going to want back in the ring.

Totally. Final question. Ben, you've been in the industry for a while now, like Chris has said. Where do you think there's the most opportunity for service contractors today?

Oh, I just think, I don't think the, the opportunity ever ends. I think we get in peaks and valleys. And I think the, I think the key thing about when you get into an economic or weather, whatever related valley that a business kind of goes through, I think that's when you put your foot on the accelerator, you don't pull back. So I think, I think, you know, it's, you know, I've always had the philosophy of when, you know, the economy is crashing or interest rates are going up, whatever you just keep on going and even press harder and try to look for more opportunities out there and they develop every time we've gone through a pullback of significance. You know, all I've ever done is, you know, just pushed a little harder, done a little more marketing, took a little more risk and it's always paid off because a lot of the people are retracting and say it can't be done, but that's not true. It can be done. I just don't see it as it's never been a challenge to me. And I'm no nuclear scientist by any means. I'm just a hard working guy that gets out there and knocks on the next door and looks for opportunity.

Love it. Any final words from you two before we wrap this up? And I want to thank you. This has been a really wonderful conversation and I've absolutely loved it. So thank you again for your time. Any final words?

I mean, thank you for inviting us.

On and thank you to Ben.

I love this industry.

Passionate about it. And this conversation right here is kind of proof that anybody can do it. My gosh, if I can accomplish something as a technician that, you know, my first goal is just to learn how to fix an air conditioner, which hose do I hook the blue one to and which one to hook the red one to.

Right. And then to get to this point.

In just a few years, I would have never dreamed that. And it was only possible from learning from people like Ben power of leveraging tools and technology to grow. So my final words is just, I'm thankful for the industry and if I.

Can do it, anybody can do it.

Read more books. We have a good one that's out there, by the way.

Oh, your book is fantastic. Yeah. Again, it is called It's Go Time. Ben Stark and Chris Hunter share insights and strategies to help your home service company succeed. You guys co authored it with the help of Dave Rothacker. It's awesome. Everyone should check it out. Thank you, Chris and Ben. This has been an awesome conversation. Thank you to everyone watching and I hope you all have a great rest of your day.

Thank you.

Take care.

Bye.