031: Brad Giles - How to Get A Brand Promise

Are you thinking about how to grow your business with near and offshore staffing? But you're also wanting to make sure that it's reliable, cost effective and really well done? I think docsa talent is the way to go. Here's why. They don't just fill your jobs. They bring integrity, top talent and a people first approach that's hard to find. I've known the people at Doxa talent for over 20 years now and I say that you can count on them. I have talent. Talk to Doxatalant and you won't be disappointed. Go to doxatalent.com Bill G. Again, that's doxatalent.com Bill g. One more time. Doxatalent.com Bill G. Check it out today. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host and Gazelles business coach, Bill Gallagher. We're talking today about how to get a powerful brand promise and kind of a secret, sexy method to do that. The Attribute Map. We're talking with really an effective, longtime, successful, notable Gazelles coach from Perth, Australia, Brad Giles. Brad, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Bill. It's good to be here.

Yeah. So this is a terrific topic. I'm looking forward to it. And it's not one that everyone digs into. We've had Bob Bloom on the show before talking about, talking about core customer and that's key to what we'll be doing. So you're in Perth, Australia today? Yeah.

Yes, I am. This is where I grew up and lived my whole life here.

Nice. And I understand you first came to the world of Gazelles through the, through the entrepreneurs or the EO organization EMP program?

Yeah, actually, yes. That's where I honed my skills. I actually first read Rockefeller habits back around 2001 and implemented it successfully into my business. I was a member in EO and then over time I grew into a larger business and then I joined the EMP program, which is a fantastic program out of MIT in Boston.

Well, a lot of our successful entrepreneurs and our coaches have come through the program. Right. That's where I first met Vern and was introduced to the Rockefeller habits back around the same time as you. So you've been a Fast 100 winner a couple times. You've been an Earn Young Entrepreneur finalist, you put on a kick ass TEDx event, you've been a president of the EO chapter, you've grown a number of different businesses and today you're a full time Gazelles coach with your company, Evolution Partners.

Yeah, that's Correct. I suppose, having seen the Gazelles methodology work so well in my own business back in the early 2000s, over time, having been through the EMP program and everything else, I got to a point and I thought, what do I really want to do? I make a difference. And it came back to one thing, which was I wanted to help other people through this journey of entrepreneurship. About four or five years ago, I became certified, having used it for several years beforehand in Friends businesses as well as mine. And now I'm working with companies right across Australia.

Beautiful. So we're going to talk about how to get a powerful brand promise, and in particular, this method, the attribute map, that's not well known and understood and noticed. Tell us about. You shared a great story about applying it with one of your clients. Tell me about that.

Yeah. So I started using the attribute map several years ago and used it with a client and then started to recognize how closely it would align with the brand promise and then began to actually turn it around and use it to build out the brand promise. So it started with a client, civil contracting company that I work with here in Western Australia. So effectively, what they do is they build the infrastructure behind new subdivisions. They put in the electrical, the plumbing, pipes, the roads, the drainage, everything that goes in to make a new subdivision. They work in a marketplace, so their guys effectively drive large trucks, and they go around digging holes and then filling them in is the simplest way to put it. Not the most sophisticated of jobs, but one where we could really make a difference. And so their ideal customer, or according to Bob Bloom, their core customer, the phrase that we use in Gazelles, was a person who is in control of that purchasing decision around the infrastructure for a new subdivision. And so what we recognized was what frustrated this person was they would be presented on a certain date with what was supposed to be a completed infrastructure project that would meet the specifications. But almost 10 times out of 10, it was never happening, not just from their company, but from all of their competition. So essentially to what we found out was we were able to bring that back and we were able to say, let's identify the attributes, the service attributes that would make the difference to this person, would improve our brand reputation in the market and would be able to make a difference. And finally, we're measurable, which is obviously the key elements of the brand promise. And they were for this person, first of all, the job has to be on time. There was nothing more frustrating than they worked for months and months and months on a project. And then it comes to the due date and it's not finished, it's still got more time to go. It had to be on time, what we call the first time. And so what that meant is it had to be on time and ready to go without having any previous defects that needed to be fixed. And then every time. So we built the brand promise to be on time, first time, every time, which is a bit of a catchy kind of a phrase, but it really met the needs of that core customer measurable and we were able to bring that out in that company and make a big difference in the way that they operated and to substantially change the way that business delivered.

So what you identified in the mapping process is that the timeliness and the consistency and the predictability was the most important thing. And, and I assume when we get into the attribute mapping we'll talk a little bit about what wasn't so important, right?

Yeah, that's right. So it comes down to be very specific service attributes. So for example, knowledge is table stakes. You wouldn't be able to operate a civil contracting company, for example, if you didn't have the knowledge of how to perform the work.

Right.

So we're trying to avoid table stakes and we want to make sure what are the service attributes, the real difference that we can make.

Yes, our steps here are really core customer, then the attribute map and then that leading into the brand promise and then the metrics that demonstrate whether or not we're on that or not.

Right, that's right. That really speaks to my central belief, which is if we're going to build a one page strategic plan, there's got to be depth behind frustrates me when we've got these things that I like to call bubble wrap business plans, which is effectively we get a box and we put just anything in it, like thin air because it sounds nice and then we move on to the next box. I suppose that's the difference. Working with someone like yourself, an experienced gazelle's coach, to know how to get into those, to the meaningful side of what's behind the plan.

Right. Well, I discovered recently actually, quite to my embarrassment, somebody that I've been working with for a while and we'd done a variety of other things because it was a non standard thing. We hadn't done their values because they're like, oh yeah, we've got values but we've been working on other stuff and they grow nicely and stuff. And then I looked at it and it was like integrity, teamwork, communication. I was like, oh my God, that's Exactly what you're talking about. It's like, it's generic. He's like, well, these don't make any difference. I'm like, yeah, because they're all generic, throwaway words. Of course. Who would want to do business with anybody who didn't have integrity? Why even bother to put that up? It's like table stakes and communication. Well, all right. You know, can you imagine doing business with somebody who didn't value communication or teamwork? It's all kind of, it's disposable. Right. We want it to be real rich, vivid, differentiated.

Yeah, probably like you. I've seen hundreds of one page strategic plans now, and there are a smaller percentage that when they're completed, they look elegant, they look beautiful, they look like a piece of artwork. Because everything flows and it makes sense. And you can immediately see how that plan will deliver exceptional results moving forward.

Yes.

And then you look at the other side, like you said, and it's just like, well, what should we put in here? And they try to come up with a, a tagline or something like that. And then you look across the purpose and the brand promise and the profit per x and they really just try to put something in a box. But the purpose of a plan is not to fill a box. It's to help you to drive the business forward in the direction that you want.

Yes. And so, look, leave the box empty if you're not ready to get there. Let's work on the other pieces. It doesn't all have to be done. You could take it one step at a time. So let's start one step at a time with this process. So first of all, core customer. Right. I know we've been down that a little bit with Bob Bloom, but talk to us about how you discover and hone in on core customer. What's important on that? I mean, I think just honing in on a core customer is sort of fundamental to it because if you're trying to appeal to everyone and own all segments of whatever business segment or industry or whatever you're in, you end up not really being able to cover that, especially for anybody we're talking to. So what's your process and what's it, what are your tips for getting at core customer?

Yeah, look, Bob Bloom is obviously the go to guy in this area. So I mix a little bit of Bob Bloom with a bit of Rick Cash, founder of Nielsen. And the point from Rick is that There are a 7% of customers in every market where the profit pulls. And you may remember he Uses the dog food example. So there are 7% of dog owners who will spend a ridiculous amount of money on their dogs to make them satisfied or happy or luxurious. And the profit that is in that 7% is extraordinary. In the research that Rick had done, every industry has these profit pools. Therefore, taking that consideration and then using Bob Bloom's work, which is around, who is your core customer, who is the ideal customer that will pay the most, that will accept your experience or your advice or whatever other attributes that matter the most to you, who is your ideal customer? Then from there we can take it forward to think, well, what does that core customer need? Just like you said. I must have said that hundreds of times myself. If you try to be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to no one. And therefore, out of all of the customers that you serve, who is the one that you would most like to spend your very precious time and money to market, to, to replicate?

Well, I did that earlier today. I was talking to someone and I realized I just can't work with that person. Our communication, our expectations are just not aligned. And I'm like, oh, I can move on. It's pretty liberating.

Yeah, yeah, it is. And that's a good word for it, liberating. Because I've, you know, I mean, probably like you, I've done the core customer exercise many times and it kind of dawns on people, I think. So these customers that we can't stand dealing with, these customers that annoy us so much, we can build a business model in the future where we don't have to deal with them. And I'm like, yeah. And it is very relieving. Yeah.

Well, I remember years ago, one of my key in my last business and one of my outside reps chased down some business with Macy's. Macy's is a very big store, part of this federated group, you know, he was so excited about it and we all were, because it represented massive volume. And we started down the path to begin to do business with this company and we were working very hard at it. And it's not for the faint of heart to go down that path. The both the expectations of that business.

Plus.

All the logistics involved, but then the culture and so going through all of these things, I came to a point one day and as we were going through the implementation of something called our EDI integration to begin to transact with them, I got on the phone with one of the key people and they were just like being nasty with me as I tried to work through this thing. And I realized if they're being nasty with me on trying to fit into their requirements, can you just imagine what it's like when they're really after something they really want? I can't imagine doing business and having a majority of my business be tied to them. And I stopped myself with that thought mid conversation with this person and I said, you know what? I just don't think we should be in business together. And she was stunned. But I felt really great as I hung up the phone and I'm like, okay. And I think she was a little miffed and all that because not used to having it go that way. But I was totally satisfied and happy to say no, thank you and move on and focus on other stores and other accounts.

Yeah, it takes courage to get to that point. But you can build the kind of business by saying no that you really want.

Right? So figuring out who to say no to, figuring out who you really love and who loves you, who's willing to pay a profit, a premium, who's willing to pay you on time, who do you go back, who refers you? Right. These are the kinds of things that we do to figure out and then developing a rich profile for them. Sometimes I'll send folks out to their clients offices and say, not only talk to them about why they chose you and everything like that, but then look around the office, think about what kind of a person or if you deal to a consumer, not to a business, look around their home, see what it's like, see what else they read and what other brands they use and get a rich picture of this picture person as you hone in on what it is that sets yours apart. Because simply saying they're a man or a woman between a certain age with a certain income isn't terribly meaningful. Right?

It isn't. That's right. So we like to say, I think one of the Rockefeller habits is we've got to get it right down to 25 words or less. I think it might be 9.4. We've got to get it right down to. To 25 words or less. A description of who is your core customer, who is the person that you can make the biggest difference with. And I like to give them a name and then we always refer to that through quarterly planning sessions. So Andy or Maria or whoever it is, we name that virtual person and then we keep referencing back to that Maria. What would Maria think? How is Maria going to care about this?

Right. So you build a target profile with a kind of an avatar. We've had people pick a, an image or a face, like off of Google Images or something. Go find a face of a person who looks kind of like you're looking for and develop kind of a rich profile. Think about what media do they use and what are their hobbies and what are their sports and what are their family interests. And that kind of a rich picture. And then obviously, you have to narrow it down then to 25 things that you find really predictive to go in on. So that gives us a core customer. And then let's talk about this attribute map. Right, So I know it's barely mentioned in the Scaling up book, but it really comes from another book, right?

It does. It comes from a book called Uncommon Service, how to win by putting customers at the core of your business. And that's come out of Harvard, and that's by Francis Fray and Ann Morris. It is just a wonderful, wonderful book on how to put customers first and how to cut through all of the noise to deliver what really matters to, ironically, as we were just saying, your core customer.

All right, so we've got this core customer profile. Now. We want to apply the process from Uncommon Service of the attribute mapping to figure out what to focus on and what we can ignore. So walk us through that process.

Okay, so we understand our core customer. We'll call them Maria for the purpose of this conversation. So we know who Maria is. But what is the difference that we can make in Maria's world? How can we deliver an exceptional service experience for Maria, no matter what we do, to ensure that we're able to organically drive revenues toward our business? And what I mean by that is because we consistently deliver exactly what Maria wants, we're going to be able to have more and more and more of both her income or revenue and also that of people who are just like her. So that comes down to understanding the service attributes that Maria needs and not wants, but needs in order to satisfy whatever it is that she's doing so effectively in the attribute map. What we're doing is we're starting by saying who is our core customer and what are the top 10 things, the top 10 service attributes that core customer needs and not wants, and then working through with the leadership team to build that list. That's the first part of the exercise.

You just brainstorm the list or are you going out and talking to the core customer? What's the discovery for these set of attributes?

Yeah, generally in the first instance, we're just workshopping the list. We're just talking with the leadership team and to figure that out in the workshop.

Great.

There is a later, more complex version where we would go out and talk to customers, but that's about having an and or conversation. The more complex one, and that is, would you value us being on time all the time? Or for example, would you value us focusing more on low cost? That might be the first question. And then we'd go to the second question which would be would you rather us focusing on being effective on our price or would you rather us focusing on cleaning up more effectively or something like that. So identifying and cross referencing all of the service attributes against each other to validate. Because if we just said to a customer, what do you need the most? They might say, look, what we need the most is definitely the lowest price. Every single time, give us the lowest price. But that might not be what they need. So a good example around that is Shoulders Hernia Hospital from the book. So at Shouldess is the world's leading hernia hospital. They been operating since I think 1946 or 1947, something like that. So when you go to a hernia hospital, what you need is very different from what you want and what you need is permanent hernia repair. So what that means is a very low cost of recurrence because when you have a hernia operation, there is a chance that hernia could come back in the future. Having done this for many, many years, hernia have identified what are the things that really matter to a hernia patient that will affect the lowest recurrence. So first of all, what they do, just like you did before with your customer, they only accept fit and slim patients via application. So you need to apply to go to Shoulders and then once you've applied, if you don't meet the certain criteria, they won't accept you. They'll put you on a waiting list and they'll say, look, you need to get your BMI down here and your fitness to this level and your weight and so forth, but they won't accept you if you don't meet their criteria. Secondly, pre op training is provided by post op patients. So the average stay is six days and on day two is your operation. So all of the training that goes in to get people to understand how does this place work happens on day one by the people who are post op. Next is the patients are awake during the procedure and 99% of them walk away from the operating table. That's the thing that people don't like, but it is what shocks the brain into a rapid and comprehensive recovery. They've learned over time that people who are under general anesthetic are more likely to have a recurrence in the future. So everyone must be awake during the procedure. And finally, There are no TVs, there are no bedpans, and the building has an expansive grounds and a golf course. So they want to get people to walk around a lot more than the average hospital stay, which would be probably staying in bed and watching tv. So the biggest complaint that shelters have is that when people leave, they feel like they've been in a day spa and that they have to actually leave. They've been walking around, they've been relaxing and getting a bit of exercise and sunshine. The results of that is that a standard hospital has a 6% recurrence rate, but shoulders has a 0.5%. So 10 times more at a standard hospital recurrence rate than at Shoulders. So Shoulders are delivering what a customer needs and not what they want. Because, let me tell you, I don't want to be awake during the procedure and I might not want to have no TV in the whole place or no computer. I need to ensure that to get the lowest recurrence I'm able to do what I need.

Interesting. So we brainstorm the attributes and we start with that to build on them because we know something about it. Where possible, we go check them with the customer, but when checking them with the core customer, we want to ask either or conversations to get them to put to make decisions between things and indicate trade offs so that we know against our core customer what they value the most. Right?

Yeah, that's right. I would suggest that would be some months down the track, though. So initially we're getting, I mean, if the leadership team doesn't understand the customers, at least at a basic level, we've got some serious problems, really. We're using the leadership team's knowledge at the outset to build the base service attributes as we understand them. And that's pretty much where most of the work happens. Later on the and or conversations are really about validation.

Interesting. So getting where they're honed in on what they care about based on our experience and our judgment, and then using that to figure out what we're going to promise, what we can promise and what's unique to us. That's maybe not the same as everyone else. I know we talk a little bit under brand promises about Southwest Airlines, and I'm a pretty regular Southwest flyer with I think, 36 flights so far this year. And I know it's not a high frills kind of experience at all. There's no meals, there's no business or first class seating. Right?

That's right. That's a story from Bob Bloom and I'm led to understand Bob, who helped us to develop the core customer understanding that we use. Bob built this core customer being a traveling salesman through Texas in the 1970s. There's actually an attribute map that has been applied to Southwest. So the first most important thing to the Southwest customer is low prices, which is what you just said around no frills. Next is friendly service and frequent departures, which plays into their brand promise being low fares, lots of fun and lots of flights, the three lfs. But then as we go down the service attribute map, we've then got on time arrival, fast transport, convenient airports, extensive network and onboard facilities. So when we map those in the service attributes with XY axis on a graph and down the side we've got the service attributes within rank from 1 to 5 on the other axis, how do we perform? So when we look at Southwest, for example, low prices, they would give themselves a five or we would give them a five comparing to a full service airline at the time in the 1970s, they would give themselves a one because back then flights were very expensive and that was their major point of difference. I'm led to understand back then flights came out at $14 across Texas and all the other airlines said, you guys must be mad, you'll be out of business before you know it. But of course, Southwest were comparing themselves to the bus, not to a full service airline. And a bus actually scored a five because they were cheaper than that, Whereas I think it was a 4.5 or a 4 maybe for low prices being the first of the attribute maps that they measured.

Yeah, it's really interesting, you know, I think they're still pretty cost competitive, but that lots of fun and sort of being low hassle and having lots of flights is probably a bigger determinant for me. But the low fares are not a bad thing. And in truth, although I'm not really a candidate for a bus on short haul regional flights, I don't care about a whole lot as long as they don't make it a nasty experience by being surly or uncaring or whatever, but by being friendly while giving me a quick and easy like, look, just give me an hour flight down to Los Angeles and let's move on. Is my world, right?

Yeah. And then if we look at the bottom of those service attributes, onboard amenities, they compare the same as the bus. They're no frills. Like you said, we're not here to make you feel good. We're here to get you to your destination at the lowest price in the friendliest way. When there's a flight available and the bus is the same, no frills. The full service airline. On the attribute map from Southwest, there are four. They're going overboard to give you meals and all sorts of things that you don't perhaps care about.

Right. So figuring out which things you can disinvest in and which things you can focus on reminds me of a time some years ago when I came into the last business that I ran. And as we came in, we were looking at all the different things that we did, and we'd struggled for a long time to get our marketing way up because we felt like our marketing just isn't very professional and we're a small company. And then for whatever reason, and really by accident in those days, I asked one of our customers what we could do to make our brochures and our literature better. And she laughed and she said, oh, it's the best in the industry. And then I realized, oh, we're spending way too much on this. This doesn't matter that much. It was such a burn of energy and time and money to produce these beautiful, glossy catalogs. And then when we hit a rough spot spot, it was one of the first things I ditched. And it actually led to a huge breakthrough because there were other implications about our operations and inventory management that went along with that. So ditching this expensive marketing thing really freed us up to focus on what we did well, which quite by accident, stumbled into it. We're giving people the access to the attribute map. So think of these attributes, look at how you do on them, and then think about how your. What your customers actually care about for the core customer. And that leads you to things that you want to invest and emphasize and things you could even disinvest in. And then the top couple of these helps you to get to the brand promise. Right? So that's really our top three.

Yeah, that's right. And like we said before, a beautiful and elegant business plan. It makes sense, and you can see how everything would flow, just like you said. Then when I've built and when I've seen attribute maps that are elegant and beautiful, you can really easily say, look at the top three. What if we focused on those and we took money out of marketing and put it in to deliver a better service experience for the core customer? What would that do to our Revenues, A, but B, how would we be able to pay for that? And the way that we pay for it is to stop doing the things that people don't care about, which is often when it's built right. And when it works quite well. The bottom three elements on the attribute map, if you're scoring a 4 or a 5 on the things that people don't care or need about, you should be scoring a one. You should be scoring very low because otherwise you're delivering things that the core customer doesn't need or even care about. And many times you see that. So we kind of say, well, let's take the money that's taking us up to a three or a four or five at the bottom of the attribute map. And that is how we will pay for the improvements, the operational improvements at the top, focusing on what people really care about.

So then we end up with a powerful, compelling brand promise. We don't have to spend so much on the promotional side of marketing. We don't have to work as hard in selling because what we can promise is what you want.

That's right. That's right. It's exactly what the person. I'm just going to correct you there needs. It's what the core customer needs. People will want you into bankruptcy. Then the next part of that, once we've built that for ourselves, we then look at our two major competitors. The question is, who is your core customer talking to when they're not talking to you? The answer to that question, the top two companies. Then we would map those two companies against those service attributes. And that answers the question, are we unique or can we be unique? Because those top three service attributes, if they're good competitors, they might be a 3 or a 4 or 4.5. We want to push it out to a 5 for the top few. That answers the question in the brand promise. Because in the brand promise, you may recall, there are three key questions to define. Is our brand promise a tagline or is it brand promise? So it must be unique, number one, it must be measurable and it must fill the core customers need. By virtue of the attribute map, we validate the third one, at least at our best estimation at this point. Is it unique? That's how we're also determining it through the attribute map. To say, where are our two main competitors comparing to us?

Right. We can go and look against them and how it matches up and then we can hone in on it.

Yeah. And going back to Southwest, when we compared Southwest against the full service airline and the bus on the first and major attribute of their brand promise, which was low prices or low fares, Full Service Airlines scored a 1, the bus scored a 5. Southwest Airlines scored a 4. So clearly compared to a full service airline, they had a 1 versus a 4. They were definitely unique. Mm.

It's a fascinating thing and I think everyone, when you're working on your business, especially this time of year, useful to think about the year ahead and where you can focus on and refocus energy and your message and set the right kind of priorities. I think this is a valuable thing for folks to do. I appreciate so much coming on today to talk us through this and help to get people a little further down the road to producing a more compelling brand promise. We're going to put links to your website and to the book on the Uncommon Service Book, Frances Fry and we'll put anything else that we should stick in while we're thinking about it in the show.

Notes Well, I have started a vlog yesterday, a video log. I don't know how it's going to go, but it's an experiment. You may want to put that in there. If people are finding it difficult to get to sleep, that could be something that could help in that department. But in all seriousness, yeah, the vlog that I've started, I don't know how that's going to go, but it's certainly an experiment. I'm trying and it seems to be fun at this point. And the other thing, I've got an online training school which you may want to put a link to and that really walks you through each of the steps, how to build a one page strategic plan. So you may want to put that in there as well.

Thanks so much for being on the show with us today. Really appreciate your talking through brand promises, attribute maps and the whole flow from the core customer.

Thank you so much, Bill. It's been a pleasure.

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