054: Mark Green - The Power and Magic of Authenticity

Are you thinking about how to grow your business with near and offshore staffing, but you're also wanting to make sure that it's reliable, cost effective, and really well done? I think docsa talent is the way to go. Here's why. They don't just fill your jobs. They bring integrity, top talent, and a people first approach that's hard to find. I've known the people at Doxa talent for over 20 years now and I say that you can count on them. I have talent. Talk to Doxatalant and you won't be disappointed. Go to doxatalent.com Bill G. Again, that's doxatalent.com Bill g. One more time. Docsatalant.com Bill G. Check it out today. All right, we're talking today about the power and magic of authenticity. All of the things that provides, how to access it, what it means, what are we even dealing with? Today will reveal a whole lot to you in the world of authenticity Foreign. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business Podcast. I'm your host, Gazelles business coach Bill Gallagher on the phone with me today, a senior Gazelles coach, longtime person who's contributed to me, mentored me in many ways. Mark Green on the phone today. He's a senior Gazelles coach. He works with other coaches in their practice development and he's a business coach with mad skills in our world. He's been a coach for many years now. He helps trains and mentors folks all over the world. And his background is rich and interesting too. He started in tech and tech marketing and he had an executive search firm and he had a marketing company and he did other leadership training, development. And along the way he discovered some powerful things about authenticity and, and the integrity that goes along with it. And so we're going to talk today all about that. Welcome to the show, Mark.

Thanks, Bill. I appreciate it very much.

Nice. So you're in the New York metro area. Yeah. Are you there today?

I am. I'm at home in New Jersey.

It's awesome. And I'm on the west coast now and back in my office and taking care of some podcast recordings today. So I'm so glad to have you on. And you know, some folks who know me and know me well know that this is a subject near and dear to me. So we're going to riff off each other today. But I think we're going to focus first on your story and the evolution of it. So I don't know, where does it begin for you, this journey towards authenticity? Tell me about where it all gets started.

Well, it all gets started, believe it or not, in my childhood. And I was always one of those kids that everybody found easy to talk to. And for whatever reason, through middle school and high school especially, I sort of turned into this peer shrink person that everybody felt comfortable coming to me. And I'm telling you this now because it will close the loop toward the end of the story, particularly around authenticity in terms of what I'm now doing for a living. But it's interesting to point out that that's kind of where it all started for me. But it took me years, decades actually, to figure out that that was really the thing for me.

So the journey towards authenticity begins with being a good listener for your friends.

Yeah, yeah. Able. Able to. Able to just to be approachable, that people were able to open up to me and for me to feel like I was able to have some sort of an impact on them.

Interesting. All right, so walk us through a little of the evolution. Tell us about your journey.

Well, you know, so in my life, the journey was always about how to get on, how to make a life for myself, how to make a living for myself. And, you know, went to university, studied psychology and business, got hired right off of campus into a technology company and, you know, thought, well, I'm going to make it as a manager, as a leader, and did my first stint in corporate America and that turned out not to be it. And I don't need to get into all the details behind that, working for a large company and down the path of manager, leader. And from there, the next thing was, well, if the big company didn't work, let me try a small company. And I went down that road in a couple of different ventures there. And it was really looking to the outside for what I thought I was searching for. And in the end, surprise, the answer came around that it was really on the inside. And it just took a while for those pieces to fall into place for me.

So can you. Can you make that a little more real? Say what pieces fell into place? How did that show up? A little less conceptual.

Yeah, sure. So if you fast forward to about 14 years ago, I was at a place in my life where I decided to start my own business. And I launched a leadership development training company. And this is when I started getting closer to this idea that I had something personally to give and contribute to other people. But even at that point, it wasn't quite coaching. It wasn't that type of a relationship. It was more of training, development delivered in a Group setting. And through my training with this group and this organization that I was a part of, and through some coaching I received, I started to realize that a lot of the things that were preventing me from getting where I wanted to go resided inside my head. And this was sort of the beginning of my understanding of what I now call authenticity and integrity. But that back then, I didn't quite know what to call it. I just knew that there were people who seemed to magically have stuff work for them in their lives and also seemed to me to be very fearless in how they conducted themselves personally and professionally. And I didn't know what it was, but I knew I wanted a part of that. And so that's what sort of opened me up to all of that. And one of the major first early inflection points for me was some work I did with a colleague coach of mine by the name of David Herdlinger, who's a great guy and he's still in the business. And he took me through an exercise to uncover my life's purpose. And this was a really important thing for me foundationally. And I was at the right point in my life to be open to that because frankly, at earlier points in my life, I sort of. I would have poo pooed the whole concept. And so clarifying my life's purpose was very interesting for me because I, for the first time, began to have an inner compass, sense of direction. And that was able to take hold and then begin to inform how I was going to continue to develop myself and where I was going to go from there.

So what is your life's purpose? Do you have a clear statement of it or.

I do, I do. My life's purpose is to liberate human potential.

Oh, nice. Really nice.

I'm very mindful of that in everything that I do. And if you were to ask anyone who knows me, you know, Mark says his life's purpose is to liberate human potential. Is he actually kind of like that? You would get a very validating message from people who know me from either personally, professionally, doesn't matter. I just. I show up the same way.

Hmm. So I spent a lot of time around landmark courses. Some people may be familiar with those. I know that there's something. Some people have strong feelings about it one way or the other. That's all fine, but. And one of the things that you do there is you notice that we have different ways of acting. And if you're acting some way where you don't have power, then there's. Then that's you're not. That. That acting is like a pretending. Acting like an actor on a stage is pretending to be someone. There's a pretense or pretending there. And that's inauthentic. Right. So one of the things that they do is uncover how are you acting in areas where you don't have power, where you are, you know, which aren't your sort of natural state. And one of the ways that I would always act is like, I didn't care if you liked me. I don't care if you like me, you know, and so I would be very headstrong. And I was out to accomplish my things and. But, but of course I care if people like me. I want to be liked. I want people to like me. I want, when I lead sessions for people to give me high reviews and say nice things about me. And, you know, and when I let that go, set it aside, gave it up, then there was a world available of like, well, what? Who do I actually want to be? And back in those days, I came up with that who I am really is making a difference and that the purpose of my life is making a difference. And I lived with that for, well, let's see, for more than 10 years. For like 15 years. I've lived with that until last week.

Oh, wow.

Right. And then last week they started to shift. And this week I revised my purpose statement and I'm playing with it now. So this is like my draft statement, Right. But I make it up. It's just what lights me up. Right. So I'll share it with you now that my purpose is giving people power for everything that life throws at them and that bringing passion and inspiration and full self expression to everyone is what matters to me. Right. I don't want people to be going through the motions of life, resigned, afraid, ashamed, suppressing themselves. And every time people throw something at me, I try to incorporate it. But then I'm always looking for how do I transform this? How do I create some passion, some fire, something around it that lights me up. And it's really hard to do when you're right in the middle of a crisis or trauma to create some inspiration. But if you'll stick with it and sort of face the pain, something can show up. Right.

Well, so I was the poster child back then, you know, 12, 13, 14 years ago, Bill, for somebody who could have used somebody like you, because my inauthenticity was always around, everything's great. Everything's great. Okay. Hey, Mark, how's it going? Everything is great. Right. You know. No. How's it going personally in your relationship? Oh, everything's great. How's the business? Everything's great. Okay.

Yeah.

And, you know, things weren't bad, but they also weren't great. And I was never able to admit a chink in the armor. And as I. From where I reflect now was interesting because even way back in high school, I actually had friends that used to sort of rib me kind in a fun, in a. In a. In a friendly way around the everything's great thing.

Yeah, the happy go lucky.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, how come nothing's ever wrong with you? How come, you know. And of course, I would just shrug my shoulders and say, hey, you know, I'm a positive guy. Everything's great. And this dawning of, you know, everything's not great. And then second to that, actually being able to admit it publicly and, you know, because the extension of that for me was fear that it wasn't just about speaking these things, but it was, if I said something's not great, well, then people are going to look at me and expect me to change something. Right, Right. And, well, that's already like a big commitment there. And so I had a lot of fear wrapped up in this thing as well, I think.

So many of our things, the idea is simple, but the application is not easy. Right. So certainly if you look at anywhere that you're shut down, you're resigned, afraid, embarrassed, ashamed, you're suppressing something, you're holding back, you're waiting, then there's something there to deal with, there's something inauthentic, there's some way you're pretending. Right. And just saying it's not okay, everything's not great is powerful. And yet there's also a struggle, especially today in social media. So last week I posted some photos. I posted one photo of an empty Jetway, right? And I'm like, I'm not going to pretend everything's great. I'm not doing great today. I'm barely hanging on. I'm lonely. I was in a despairing place. And I felt really good about sharing that. Many people appreciate it, but a few people were definitely made uncomfortable by that level of authenticity. And just put it. And I'm like, I don't know who to really share this with right now. I put it out by the same token. I'm in this group for a long time called Entrepreneurs Organization, or eo. And in eo, one of the things we do is we have forums of other entrepreneurs and we meet and we share, you know, everything that's going on with us. We share deeply and we share the good and the bad and all of it, but we especially share not just the victories, but also the things that we're afraid of and confronted by and so on. And I had a foreign mate for a while who. Everything's great. Everything's great. Everything's great. Family's great, business great. Wife's great, house is great, you know, and I. After a while, I just didn't believe him. I just, like. It's not human, dude. I mean, it's. You know, it's nice to have it for a while, but then you're either not reaching or you're clueless. So I just. I couldn't. I just. I don't believe it. It's not human.

You're. You're. You're right. You're right. It can't just. It can't just be great. And I think it's like. It's like when you go to the gym and, like, any muscle, you have to exercise it. And I have to remind myself still to this day that it's okay for me to say I'm vulnerable here or this isn't right, or, you know, I'm engaged with a client, that's not a great fit for me, and I'm miserable and I need to do something about it. And, you know, any. Any of that kind of stuff or, you know, there's something going on with one of my kids that's. That's on my mind or that's troubling me, et cetera, I have to remind myself to do these things because these are things that would always be suppressed in the past.

So I don't know if you noticed this, but I find. So we all sort of recognize authentic leadership and authenticity as being powerful, even conceptually. If we haven't examined it deeper or tried to develop it or like, there's something there that's of interest. Right. But then the first thing that I notice is people go to sincerity. So I'm going to be much more sincere. And I don't think that gives you any access at all, because I don't think that we need any help in authentically expressing the things that we're proud of, authentically expressing the things that light us up, whatever. What we have no capacity for is authentically sharing what we're afraid of and ashamed about and like that. That's the access to full authenticity.

Yeah, And I agree with you, and I don't think it's about sincerity. This is where I'll bring the concept of integrity into the picture. Bill. I think it's about integrity. And integrity for me is this idea of being solid, having a solid foundation. And the extension of that is I'm the person who says what I'm going to do and does what I say, and I'm reliable. You can count on me, you know. And that, I think, creates the foundation where in combination with being able to be authentic, can create a really big impact on others from a leadership perspective. And I use this in my coaching, particularly of other coaches, which can be a challenge because, you know, coaches by nature feel like they've made the journey. They're in a position of influence and been there, done that, and I know what I know. And I often find myself in a position of helping them have to realize that they actually need to deconstruct some of the things that they know and unlearn those things to be able to change them, to have the kind of effect that they want and to be able to build the kind of practice they want to provide for their life and their family, et cetera. And this is a challenging role. And what I found is the way to break through all of that is the combination of integrity and authenticity. And it's being able to stand up in front of a group of coaches and literally say, there is nothing that's going to come out of my mouth today that I don't live with myself in my world, in my life, in my practice. I'm not going to suggest that you do anything that I myself am not doing.

That's really great. And I think it'd be great for not just other coaches, but for all leaders, people becoming leaders, people who are now leading to get. Like if you. I had once a coaching arrangement didn't go well because the senior leadership wanted me to coach the middle management, but they didn't want to eat the dog food themselves. Right. Go do that with somebody else. And I think about, like, when I go to lead some new thing, one of the things I do is I lead accelerator sessions and we focus in on one particular area or another for a while. And so I always. I just do the work again. So if we're going to go through execution habits, which I've been doing for the last little bit, I just go through and I look at my priorities and I see where the next thing is to elevate and I look at what the gap is to. Not only in the past for me, in say, meeting and communication rhythms, but also then where Am I sloppy right now? And then I share. Okay, so here's the world of it, and here's what I'm doing, and here's the next thing for me. So it's always. I'm always in it with them. I'm not. There's no hypocrisy. Right. In the world.

Yeah. It's very powerful because you're being the change you want to see in others, and it makes it easier for others to opt in. Similarly, I use authenticity in that scenario as well. And by the way, I said with other coaches, I use this with my clients as well. But this idea that I'm standing before you, willing to be vulnerable but on a firm foundation of integrity, and it really kind of gives everyone else in the room permission to go there. And I get that comment pretty often from people in a bit of surprise, like, I can't believe, Mark, that you took this group in such a short amount of time and had people laying cards on the table the way that they were. Like, where did you know? How did you do that? And it's exactly what we're talking about, Bill. It's at the nexus of these two ideas.

Yeah. Yeah. So integrity and authenticity are tightly connected in. In a little. In a connected dance there. Right. There's. There's a. There's a couple of the pieces right in the. In the toolkit leader. But those are two really big anchoring ones. Like, if you get raw with people in the world of authenticity, but then you've got little bullshit secrets or.

Yeah.

Things that you aren't. Then it's all sort of for naught. And it. It doesn't. Somehow it comes undone because there's no foundation. You said that it's solid. And if you look, one of the other things that you'll see in the definition of integrity is whole. Right. Complete. And so you take a spoke out of a wheel, and you're good to go back to 711 and pick up some milk on the bike. But you couldn't win the Tour de France in that wheel.

That's right.

So it matters to the extent that you're doing something interesting and important, especially to our audience. Right. Of people trying to scale up their companies.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'd launched my leadership development practice. I'd figured out my life's purpose, and I had gotten to a place in that particular network that I was a part of at the time, where I became one of the more senior folks. You know, I was teaching other people, and I began to realize that there wasn't as much of a learning opportunity for me as there had been in the past. In other words, I had people who were peers and colleagues, but really not people that were beyond, far, significantly beyond where I was. And it caused me. And I don't know why this came to me, but it came to me when my first wife and I were buying, about to buy our first home together. My grandfather, my grandpa Ben, my mom's father, gave me a piece of advice about home buying. And this is a long, long, long time ago. He said, mark, whatever you do, don't buy the most expensive house in the neighborhood, because there's only one way that all the other houses in the neighborhood can affect your property value. And at the time, it was real estate advice. And at the time, I took his advice, and it was perfectly okay. And I didn't buy the most expensive house in the neighborhood. Fast forward to where I was in my business. And for some reason, Grandpa Ben's words came back to me. It dawned on me that he was not giving me real estate advice. He was giving me life advice. And in this network that I was a part of at the time, I had become one of the most expensive houses in the neighborhood.

Yeah.

And I realized the effect on my property value, if you were, if you will. This was at the same time that I began to feel like I wasn't having a big enough impact with my clients. And so those things came together that opened me up to look out and essentially change my surroundings. And that's when I was introduced to the Gazelles organization. And I decided to, you know, investigate it and subsequently affiliate when I realized that there were people in this organization at the time that I considered to be 10x more sophisticated than me, 10x smarter than me, 10x more successful than me in all the things that I wanted. And I took a leap of faith because there was an element of me that felt like, well, I deserve to be in this network. And there was an element of me that felt like, boy, I'm really going to be the low man on the totem pole, because these people are really impressive here.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so that was a big, big step for me in terms of coming to be able to admit maybe everything's not great. Okay. And being able to put together for the first time in my life, a much more directed internal locus of control. Okay. Like, I'm doing this because I want to do it, because I feel like I'm following a path. And that was a big deal, because the next step in that process was That I was able to, through coaching that I received from my new colleagues in this new network I was a part of. Through some of the training and content that I was exposed to, I was able to create the business model for my coaching practice that I now train other coaches on around the world and has put me in a place of being able to live the life that I want to live on the terms that I want to live it. And it's been a very, very, very liberating thing.

Yeah, I really get that. And I can hear that. So authenticity and the expansion of addressing what really wasn't okay with you led you to an explosion of results and satisfaction, really, I hear.

No. No doubt. And what it also did then was began to shine a light on a part of my life that I had kept very closed off to everybody else who knew me. And that was my personal relationship. And without getting into a lot of detail around that, you know, suffice to say that I realized that I was. Was not able to be authentic there either. And I was living a life that looked very happy from the outside, but that inside me, I felt like I was. I was not able to be authentic. Authentic. Okay. In that relationship. And so my relationship was the next thing that changed in my life. Okay. And, you know, for those who've been through a divorce or that kind of a transition in your life, you know, put three children in the mix, and it's a big deal, and it's scary.

Yeah.

And, you know, again, that. That's this idea that if I admit this to myself, then I probably should do something about it.

Right.

And so that. That played out. And the final piece for me, just to kind of bring it all full circle. So, you know, we've got this idea of professionally, the journey to authenticity. Right. In my relationship, a journey to authenticity. By the way, I'm very happily remarried and able to be completely authentic in my current relationship, happier than I've ever been personally. And everybody around me knows it. Even people who didn't really know me personally, only professionally, have noticed how I've changed just as a result of that, which is kind of profound. Right?

Yeah.

And then the last piece for me, the last piece for me is about health and fitness.

Yeah.

And, you know, this is where Carrie and I, my wife, today woke up over the winter about two and a half years ago and realized, you know, we're both healthy, but we want to live, like, a long, happy, productive, active life together. And if you draw the trend line out from where we are right now to this life that we say we want together, we're not on the right trajectory. We're not living our life today in a manner that's authentic with who we're saying we want to be in the future.

Right.

Okay. And so we changed. So we changed, and it was pretty dramatic. And at age 50, I can tell you I'm in better shape now than I've been in my entire life. My physician is astounded, which is always a great thing. And, you know, we've brought this piece into authenticity now, and it's really been the last part, the journey. And again, I can have these conversations with great integrity because I walk that walk every day.

Real. You know, I think, though, something that underscores that we're never done living. So there's always another area, another layer, another whatever. I hear a couple things in what you're saying. One of them is, I mean, we've been talking back and forth, authenticity, integrity. And authenticity. And integrity. And then what you started to point to is that there's not really a big separation between work and personal, and we think of them as distinct areas, but who's in all of them is us. And there's this kind of continuum. So when. If you're off in your personal, it affects your work, and if you're off at work, it affects your personal, and there's a mixing. And if you get to work on one area, then you start to notice other areas. I went through and I did probably 40, 45 endurance events, mostly triathlons and long bikes and swims and runs and marathons and things like that. And then I got dislocated by a bunch of family stuff a few years ago and a series of different family things. And then my weight and fitness all kind of went to hell. And then I went to try to resume that stuff now, and it somewhat had expired for me, and I've been grappling with what to do about it, like, what's really going on. And so I think that now there's a. There's a new thing now that I just saw that I'm exploring, but that kind of excites me. But you. You can count on that. You can't get it all done. Like, you can't go to the bathroom once and say, okay, I did that. I'm done. I'm not going to go to the bathroom again for the rest of my life. Right. No, that's. That's.

That's right. So in the. In the. So I've had coaches through my life as you have, I'm sure, in different areas for different reasons. And when Kerry and I started going through this lifestyle change thing, we relied on a friend of ours, this guy named Rick, and he had. He wasn't a professional in this area, but he had done some transformation himself physically and had helped some other people with it. And he gave us a piece of advice that was absolutely incredible. And it helped us on the consumption side, the input side, what we were eating, and it helped us on the output side, the activity side, the exercise side. Okay? And what he said was this. He said, mark, whatever you do, don't change a thing that you can't live with for the rest of your life. Because if you change something and you can't live with that, it's never going to last. Don't eat the food that tastes like cardboard because you're trying to lose weight, because you're not going to do it for the rest of your life. Don't go on a program. We have to drink a shake two times a day and eat a little meal because you're not going to do that for the rest of your life. If you're not a gym person, don't join a gym. Find something that you can do that you can live with. And I heard that. And what you just said, like you said you found a replacement for the endurance activities was something that seems to be lighting your fire now. And it's exactly the right thing. And Carrie and I started simply by walking together. That's how we started, because we thought to ourselves, you know what? We like each other. We can walk. We could do this for the rest of our lives. So let's just start here.

Right? Right.

So in this story, there's a few lessons that I've learned that I like to impart to people when I tell the story. Lesson number one, everybody needs a coach. You may not need a coach all the time. You may not need a coach in all aspects of your life, but in different areas of life, different times, everyone needs a coach. Be open to that. Lesson number two, if you don't tell the universe what you want, you're never going to get it. You don't put it out there that I want this or I want to accomplish that or this is where I want to be. You're never going to get it. And you can't put it out there in the negative. Right. It's got to be in the positive. So it's just something again that I've learned over the years that works just in incredible ways. And I just had something that I'm not willing to share that happened in the last week. That's another example of exactly that. Exactly that happening. Number three, a purposeful life demands leaps of faith. Okay? And fear is always the obstacle to taking a leap of faith. And that could be starting a business that could be changing your neighborhood. Right? That could be any of those kinds of things. To live your purpose at a higher order demands leaps of faith.

Okay.

Properly structured, even radical change can be relatively easy and sustainable. That's another one. And, you know, this is back to my friend Rick and his advice and having a coach and those kinds of things. And the next one is my grandpa Ben's advice is absolutely universal advice. Where is it in your life that you've become one of the most expensive houses in the neighborhood? Is it professional? Is it personal? Where is it? And where is that? And how is that holding you back.

From something I hear in that, like, I'd be growing. So if you've gotten to a place where you're the top dog, then you're probably not growing anymore. It's time to get. It's time to find some new tennis partners, right?

Yeah. And it's hard because we. There's a seduction there. We want to be the smart person. We want to be someone that people feel. You bet it does. You bet it does. But it's very stagnating. And the final one is tune into your locus of control. Okay. Are you really in control of where you're going and what you're doing? Are you really taking responsibility for your life? Or are you blaming it on other people? Or are you listening to what quote others think and say to figure out what next moves you're going to make, et cetera. And these are the lessons, really, that I've internalized. And all this with the benefit of hindsight. Of course not. Listen, if I had this stuff figured out up front, I only play that in my head. If I knew then what I know now kind of a thing. But I'm so full of gratitude and appreciation that I have it now. And these are the lessons that I kind of use to summarize this journey of mine that we've been sort of dancing around here.

That's brilliant. You'll find more information about Mark and contact for him at Time4Change Biz. We'll recap his takeaways in the show notes, of course, as we always do. So time, that's where you'll find him. If you go to our website scalingupbusiness.com and subscribe. Not only will we send you a new podcast every week with notes and summary of what we're doing on all the things related to growing your leadership and growing your business, but we'll also send you the tools and things that we use with clients to grow businesses so you get a sense of the work that we do and so you'll get a whole suite of other things if you go subscribe@scalingupbusiness.com that's all I got for you. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening. Thanks Mark for being on the show.

My pleasure. Thank you Bill.

Are you ready to turn your goals into daily wins? You should check out our Scoreboard software powered by Align. It's the official software for scaling up. With Scoreboard, you'll get an AI driven coach for priorities and KPIs and it'll help keep your team focused on what matters most. With Align, you can track your goals in real time and you'll even see results on the go. With their mobile app, you can rest easy knowing that Align has world class onboarding and support to set your team up for success. This is really more than just software, it's what I actually use to manage growth in our scaling up client teams. Unlock clarity and results with Scoreboard by Aligned. To try it now, go to aligntoday.com Bill G One more time. Aligntoday.com Bill G that's aligntoday.com Bill G Check it out and try it now.