056: Andy Bailey - The Illusion Of Work-Life Balance

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On our last show we had Rory Vaden talking about stuff. Today's show is all about the illusion between work and life, between personal and work, and a great access to power in the face of all things. I think you'll find it a terrific compliment if you listen to our last show. If you didn't do that later. Today's show we have on Andy Bailey who's going to talk about his new book no Try. And he's going to talk about the difference between try and Will. And so I'm super excited about it. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling of Business podcast. I'm your host, host and Gazelles business coach Bill Gallagher. On the show with us today is Andy Bailey. Andy is the head of Petra Coach, another, well, maybe the largest of the Gazelles coaching organizations. He's a guy I really, really admire personally, professionally, in every sense. He's just an awesome human being and with a terrific experience background. So he's been a successful entrepreneur and CEO. He's been noted, he's been Fortune 500. He's been future 50s. He's an all around very accomplished entrepreneur and CEO. And I think that as you get to know him and you hear him here, if you don't already know, you'll get just a tremendous amount of time out of being with him. So thanks for coming on the show with us today, Andy.

Thanks for the intro, dude. I want you to come speak at my funeral as well.

I'll be more prepared. So you're at home today or office?

I'm in the office today.

Nice.

Today. Those are the rare days that I'm in town.

This is something that you're known for, right? I know you and your team go around conferences and stuff with the no try Buttons on. And I know this has been a mantra for your you. I know that Yoda is a figure that symbols do or do not. There is no try. I know this is a big thing for you and we're going to get into what it represents and all that right away. But would you take us back a little bit to. I don't know, how does this evolve? Where does this crystallize for you, this idea in your life and in your career?

Well, it also is our number one core value for the organization. There is no try, only do. Just as long as I can remember, have always been this type of person that looked for a solution rather than looking at it as a challenge or a problem. I believe that there's an answer to any question. I think you may not always like the answer, and it may be too difficult to implement or too expensive or even immoral. But until you look at it from all sides, really chase down, you know, we're not going to try to do this. We're going to go do it. How do we go do it? What's the answer to the question? Until you really put yourself in that place and begin to ask and answer those really tough questions, sometimes they can be fun to answer. You don't really find success. And I think that's an attitude that I've had for a long time, and I look for people in my own organization and we go out in the world. Our core purpose for the organization is to remove the attitude drive from teams. And I think a lot of teams that we get to work with, you see this in your own practice. They kind of have an attitude of, you know, we'll give it a shot, we'll test it out based on historical things. We've done that before. It won't work here. You know, there's just this attitude of almost a victim mentality that exists. And I believe that we need to change that.

But. And yet I know you're not, you know, that the outcome, I mean, I can certainly say what I'll do, but we don't know what the outcome is ever of anything, do we?

We don't know what the outcome is until we reach the end result, whatever that end result is. I believe that. And many times I'll describe it this way. I'll say, I'll ask a question. Have you ever put a puzzle together before? And everybody in the room says, yeah, of course we have. And I'll say, where do you start putting a puzzle together? And everyone will say, with the corners. Or we put the pieces Right side up, or, you know, we start from the center and that's not true. The first thing we do is look at the box. We look at the picture on the box and we get a clear image of where we want to go.

Yeah. The end result is.

Right. I mean, this is not, not new to anyone's thought process, but we maybe didn't notice it. Yeah. You know, if you can get clear in your personal life and in your business life where you want to go, it's much easier to put all those pieces together. So no, you, you don't know when you start, exactly where you're going to end. But I can, and you know this as well, you have a hell of a lot better chance of ending up where you want to go if you're very clear on where that is.

Yes. Which goes to like, we've had Brian Scudamore and Cameron Herald on talking painted picture and vivid vision type stuff. You know, similar kind of thing. Get a clear picture of your puzzle box. Yeah. So this has been sort of with you always. Did it always live in this way or did it crystallize at some point? Did you see Yoda? Did you. Where did it evolve in the language in this way for you?

Well, I didn't understand. I always had the drive. I always had the mentality of I'm gonna, I'll out work, do whatever I have to do to make something happen. Once I start something, I always want to finish it. So I never had a give up kind of attitude. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs have that spirit as well. It didn't crystallize or become understood for me until around 2004, 2005 timeframe when I did meet Vern and started reading the Rockefeller Habits and really got heavy into books and understanding and get, you know, and growing personally and intellectually along that path as well. And then jumped into MIT where we went through the birthing of giants program, et cetera. All that story is kind of detailed in the book. But that's when that shift started. Like, I kind of understand this better. Teach me more, teach me more, teach me more. I had to really dive into learning so that I could become a different person along that path.

What about quitting? Have you had an experience where you quit something or does it live for you in a, in a place where you say, I'm not doing that anymore? What's your thought on that?

I've never given up on. I've never quit a job. I've never, you know, we obviously in business stop doing things and that if it doesn't make any sense to do them any longer, we don't do them just for the fact of doing them. You know, big initiatives, things like that. I walked away from competitive sports when I turned 45 and got hurt all the time. Maybe that's a little bit of something like that.

Right.

I think as a human being, you evolve into whatever the next thing may be.

Yes.

Your mind grows and you just go in a different direction. I just think that a lot of people approach life with an attitude of it owes them something or they are not willing to fight for that extra 10%. And, you know, what we're. What we're talking to people about is, you know, stop being a. Stop being a victim of your own circumstances. Stand up, find a way to find a solution. Don't try, just go do. I'll tell you a quick little story about this. I was in India. This has probably been five or six years ago.

Yeah.

And we were doing a disc exercise. You're familiar. That's what I'll be familiar with as well. And we had about 20 or 25 people in the room. You know, obviously, I'm this guy from Tennessee, got a little bit of a southern accent, talk kind of fast. And I was, you know, working my very best to fit in over there. And they just kept saying, well, we'll try, we'll try, we'll try. And it drove me nuts. And. And I just. I had a couple of markers in my hand. I threw them on the floor, and I told one of the guys, I said, just do me a favor, just try to pick the marker up. And he's like. He looked a little stunned. And, you know, so he reaches over, and I'm like, no, no, don't do it. Try to pick it up. What does try actually mean? Doesn't really mean anything. It just means we either do something or we don't do something. It's a very simple. And when people write priorities, you have this happen in your own practice. They'll say they're going to try. If you just remove the damn word from your vocabulary, stop saying it or writing it, it changes the way things read.

Right. Changes the power of it. And the words have a power on us. Consciously, subconsciously, the way that we speak, the words that we choose have real power. And we notice sometimes, I think most of us notice after the moment that we said them, at least I do, that what we said had unintended consequences, lacked the power that we wanted, or something like that. And you could certainly hear that in this. And so what shifted with that company when you threw it down and they got it?

I think they had an understanding of what I was getting across to them and saying, stop saying try that. It doesn't exist. And there was just one example of what that looked like to your point about words was in a planning session yesterday in Charleston, South Carolina, and I heard one of the guys sitting at a table and I say this to people all the time. And you know, he said something to. I don't remember exactly what it was. It was something to the effect of I'm not good at math. And my comment was, don't say bad things about yourself. It's a power words. Mm. So I'm improving in math. It's much better than I'm not good at math. It seems trite, but it does make a huge difference. And, you know, I had to learn those things over the course of time and work now with people to hopefully convey that message moving forward. But, you know, it's just something that I've. That I've done for myself and I'm still working at it every single day.

Well, I. So interesting. Let's segue into the sort of the personal work thing. And as you were, we were talking about quitting and changing and things like that. What came to mind for me in that moment without much effort, was that I just shifted. So for years I did triathlons and, and I've probably done, over the last 10, 12 years, I've probably done over 40 triathlons. Then I've done some other long distance events and I'm really good at them. Right. And yet I've never been like in the top half of the finishers, so how can I be good at them? Well, I'm really good at finishing, I'm really good at signing up for them, I'm really good at trading at them. I'm really good at lots of things. And yet I had some family stuff shift last couple of years and my triathlons went out the window. My food eating changed as we dealt with sort of a change in our household family structure. And then later this year, it changed again. In the process, I gained 30, just over 30 pounds. And my fitness dropped. My eating changed and I was really depressed. And for the last year, now that like the extra family members are all out of our house, and I'm now kind of a new empty nester and my whole life is upended again. Life, relationship, work, everything's shifting again. It's unsettling. I tried to get back into triathlon and I realized I just didn't care. I didn't have any pat. I don't know, it just didn't fit for me right now anymore. And, you know, I have thousands of dollars of bike equipment and things like that. And I'm like, oh, what is there doing? I'm like, so I've sort of left it, sort of quit it, at least for the time being. And now I'm like, well, I'm doing new things. So I'm trying new kinds of exercise and new, new diet shifts and things like that, but I'm doing them. And I just use the word trying them. And I might say instead experimenting with them. I'm exploring new things to see what lights me up right now.

Yeah. And I think to your point, as life circumstances evolve, we evolve with them. I'll turn 50 this year. I do not need to be. I, I quit. I played pretty heavy competitive basketball for many years and nice, you know, you, every time you get your nose broken on a court, every third weekend, you got it. I mean, it wasn't for me anymore. And I was cool with that. I took up paddle boarding. Paddle boarding. I never break my nose. Paddle boarding.

Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, the stand up warding.

Yeah, exactly.

So let's talk about the application. You were talking earlier about this separation of work and life and the life balance and all that. Talk to me about that and how does this apply in that domain?

So, yeah, and this has been. We just did the user conference together, which we did a fantastic job. I saw you do your core value exercise work for at least a little bit. I thought it was really impressive. And I was in the other room several times doing creation of one page, personal plans or, you know, part of the structure that we have. And it's something that I didn't. Nobody ever sat me down when I was 18 to 25 years old and talked to me about the importance of envisioning what I wanted for my personal life. Now I got lots of education and information and still do in the marketplace supports this. If you look at, you know, Even with podcasts, 95% of the podcasts are going to be about business stuff. But what I found in my own life was I built a company that ultimately I sold in 2011. And around early 2000s, I got to the point where I would sit in the parking lot and go, I don't want to go in this place anymore. And I think that, you know, there's, there's probably listeners that are in that place or have been in that place or at least can relate to it if they were the entrepreneur, owner, CEO of a company. And what I found was I had built a business and that it put me in a box personally in a place that I didn't want to be in as opposed to if I'd have backed up from that. And somebody had said to me, hey man, why don't you build what you want your life to look like in the different areas that are important to you, health, accomplishments, rituals, et cetera. And then go build your damn company to serve what you want for your life rather than the opposite where we just go build for building sake. So I learned that over the course of time and it's been. One of the really important things to me is to, to be very, very purposeful with my personal life. I'm purposeful in business automatically because my brain is wired that way.

Right.

But I have to work. I have to work at the, the stuff for my personal life, right. And I do that with systems and processes and daily check ins and things like that. As we were talking earlier, I think there's a, there's a couple articles on our website about this too. They. I think the. I just hate the term. Just like the term work life balance. I hear it all the time. We have terrible. Work life balance. Work life balance. And the reason I don't like it is balance is work. And life balance is automatically equated to time. The amount of time that we spend at work and the amount of time that we spend in our personal lives are at home. Call it that. And especially as a leader, entrepreneur, owner of a business. I feel like you're going to drive yourself insane if you continue to try to balance those two. They will always be out of balance. I prefer to look at them as creating work life purpose. So can I have a purposeful life feeling fulfilled with it and can I have a purposeful business feeling fulfilled with it? And what does it take for me to do that, define those things and get to work on them on a regular basis. That's what I've been able to do. And that's what we work with those companies to do all the time, especially with those leadership teams.

Well, so the purpose of my life is giving people access to the power, to their own power in the face of any circumstances so that they're left fulfilled and fully self expressed. Right. That's the purpose of my life. And I used to say the purpose.

That's the stated purpose.

Yeah, that's the stated purpose that's invented or created purpose, right? And I used to say the purpose of my life was making a difference. And then I saw for a while that it was a little too broad. I actually just saw that very, very recently that it was too broad for me just to say making a difference and like being a contribution. And then I got more specifically, like that's the thing that I love the most, that's most fulfilling for me is when I give somebody access to their own power in the face of some mighty challenge or crisis or whatever and that they're left fulfilled and fully self expressed. And that lights me up. And then in business, right, it shows up a little differently. Like the purpose of my, my business and the purpose of my work life is highly related, but it's helping leaders build a better world. And each leader that I work with has some vision for something. And whether they realize it in the beginning or not, they sort of discover a business purpose pretty damn fast and they articulate something even if it changes. And that is something they go to work and I help them to fulfill that. And so I see those purpose. And yet there are things that like I, I'm a pilot and I love to fly. And the kind of flying I most love to do is like aerobatic flying, crazy stuff, not like long haul, not like big plane or that kind of thing. And I love flying different kinds of airplanes. But I haven't flown for over two years now. And it doesn't occur for me as a problem because I still am in my heart. I mean, it's a problem. If I wanted to go fly tomorrow, I would be rusty and not safe or legal. But it's just not something I'm giving investing any time in right now. And it seems highly likely that at some point in the future I will do that again. But right now I'm spending my time, I'm investing my time in other things because that's just the cycle of it, right? Does that make sense? Does that fit with what you're saying?

Yeah, exactly. So if you think about what you just said, it's no different than we do in business. So when I'm in front of groups of people, especially if There are multiple CEOs in the room, in a speech or talk or whatever you want to call it. I'll ask who has a written plan for their business, something that they look at on a regular basis, at least once a quarter to move the business forward. They know where it's going to be in a year, maybe they know where it's going to Be in three years. And then they're reviewing it and adjusting it. This is what you're talking about, adjusting it.

Right.

And 80% of the room will raise their hand, 20 will raise their hand. And I'll say, keep your hand up. If you have something similar to that for your personal life where you know what it's going to be in a year, what you want to achieve this year, what you want, three years potentially out three years, and you're reviewing it on a regular basis and making adjustments. Right. All the hands go down. There'll be like two people in a room of a hunt.

Yeah.

I just think that. I just think that that's sad.

Yeah.

At the end of the day. At the end of the day, Bill, our businesses are important, but they're not as important as our lives. And if we don't spend at least as much attention to planning, purposefully planning our personal lives and adjusting them along the path. So when, you know, I don't want to fly this year, and I just don't really feel like it, but I want to go do this thing, maybe I'll fly next year. Well, that's cool, because I'm going to sit down in December and reevaluate and rebuild my plan for the next year for myself, personally. Right.

So I've always done a version of this for years and for a couple decades, I guess, and I've always had a personal plan in different forms that I updated every year, just like my business plan. And just like my business plan, I'm getting to attending to it, updating it, tweaking it, using it more often. I mean, a long time ago, I would create a business plan once a year. I wouldn't look at it, and then the year would just go. However it went, I look back the next year as I did my plan, I'm going, look, I did that. I did that and a lot. It was sort of accidental what I accomplished. And that evolved over time. And I would say it will probably continue to evolve until the day I die. And I notice with clients, it's the same kind of thing. We're stepping them up to doing more thoughtful planning on an appropriate rhythm and then. And then integrating. Do you do this work with your clients consistently, or does it remain as an outside.

No, it's part of our process.

It's part of your process.

Yeah. So we'll do it out of the gate with. With a. Usually, you know, we work with executive team first, and then we'll go and work with the broader team.

Yeah.

So in the very, very beginning, one of the very first things we do is we will spend about an hour, you know, 45 minutes an hour introducing the concepts of beginning to build out the one page personal plan. And then they, each of that executive team will have a first quarter priority of finish the one page personal plan and get together as a group over dinner or lunch and review each other's one page personal plan. And then they share that back with us, which is going to be in the software so that we can get to it. They share that back with us as the coach and throughout the course of the year. We're checking in at a call today with one of the CEOs and, you know, three of the five things we talked about were things he needed to do with his wife and with his kids. And it's because they were on the personal plan. If we get out of whack, out of. I'll use the word balance, but I don't like it. If we get, if we feel less purposeful at home, we suck at work. We got to make sure that we're doing the right thing on both sides of that coin.

Well, in the sort of the traditional duality view of things like the balance scales, right. This, that work, personal balance seems a little simplistic if you shift it to say, if anybody's a cyclist or an automotive enthusiast. If you think of your wheel being out of balance, there's more dimensions. It's not an either or. And I think of that as a longtime cyclist that like, if the spoke goes out, if the wheel goes a lot. True, it's out of balance. And that creates an impact on performance or the opportunity for performance. So you could ride a wobbly wheeled bike to 7:11 and grab some milk, but you wouldn't enter and win the Tour de France with that bike. So is your demand for higher levels of performance as you're up to something big, the need to have things in balance makes sense. It doesn't mean equal, though. It's not either or. It's a much more complex thing. And I think you and I both know that you don't leave your work really behind when you go home, and you don't leave your home behind really when you go to work. And although guys may think of themselves as more compartmentalized than women, and there may be differences culturally and gender and all that, we're a continuum. We're complex human beings and we have all these different competing interests. And our one page personal plan, we'll attach a link here in the show notes as well that people can download because it complements, in addition to Andy's book, gives you a way to think about some of the key areas. You may even have other areas, but they give you some buckets to think about your life from different perspectives and to create a life plan that includes your financial security as well as it. And complements your business plan. Yeah.

Yeah. And I usually, you know, like, just a simplistic view is, what do you want for your. For your life and your area of health? What do you want for your life in the area of relationships? And what do you want for your life in the area of wealth? And wealth can be, you know, paying down debt or saving some money or buying a house, whatever, you know. Right. Just kind of those three areas. And if you can, you know, you just don't want to end up a year from now and go out and get much done. This year, I worked my ass off in my company, and we built this really cool thing. But my relationship. My kids suck.

Right.

At your kid when they're seven years old.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Well. And I think you get to a point, like, we. You probably have the same thing where, especially at the outset of working with a client, I'm like, okay, what's the goal? And they're like $100 million or I had one right now is like a billion dollars. Is his number, like, great. Why does that matter? Why did you pick that number? What does that represent to you? And some people say, well, I want to have 5 million cash in the bank. Okay, great. Why that number? What is that? And I think that becomes a much more meaningful thing than that. I mean, it's great to have a specific metric with something, but to know what it represents and why you came up with it. It's all made up. But if you can have a good answer for yourself for that, then it also could change over time.

Yeah. And then the addition of. What is your rhythmic review of how you're progressing and. Right. Do you have an accountability partner that you're reaching out to and saying, hey, man, kick me in the butt if I'm not doing these things, because they're really important to me? And here's why they're important.

Yeah.

To your point, you know, I don't really want to do triathlons anymore. I want to do something different. So I got to change my plan. If you don't review it on a regular basis and have those conversations just like you do in business. Yeah. You will find yourself in a place where you're dissatisfied.

So Andy and I are both members of the Entrepreneurs organization. It's also similar to a ypo. So eo, ypo, Vistage, these are all peer and advisory groups and in some of them maybe less so in Vistage, certainly more so in EO and ypo. There's an element and if you're in a Mastermind or something like that, there's an element of peer accountability and support for what you want in your personal life that can be very powerful. And I know we probably both use that. I tend to do my personal planning personally, not with my teams, between about the 20th of December and the 5th of January. And I take a thoughtful. I don't do it all at once in that timeframe, but I let it sort of cook over a few days and I use the worksheet to go through it and I start to reflect back on the last year and I look back at last year's plan and then I think about the coming year and where I will be in the year ahead and what I'm creating and I go through all that exercise in.

That same way and then tell me what your process is throughout the rest of the year.

I would say that's probably the weakest part. So the key thing that I focus on then is I break down. So I'll typically Update like a 20 year time horizon in the long one. And I find that really powerful. Like how old are my kids, how old are my parents, how old am I? What am I dealing with? And that creates a rich picture of like health issues and life stage and things like that. You know, I can imagine myself being a grandparent in 20 years from now and, and that, that's, that's weird.

Yeah, for me.

And so that creates a picture and then I step into the one year and it gets way more concrete. I don't tend to do like the three hag or any interim thing, but I have sometimes in the past and then I do the 90 days. And what I mostly do from the 90 day thing is I look at the one year and I look at the 90 days and then I just put shit in my calendar. Pardon the language, but I, I. So if I have, I think of it mostly as creating and creating, modifying or retiring habits and practices. So I'm like, okay, I'll erase all my current workouts and I'll create a new set of workout times. And one of my things this year is to get surfing again. And so I put in various occasions to go surfing appointments time, I reserve time, I Do I have a number of clients in Hawaii. And so I reserved extra time to make sure I got in some surfing time when I'm there. And then I started to think, well, maybe I could do some surfing Santa Cruz too. So I put that in and then I just hired a new sales guy and marketing. Actually I hired sort of a couple to do some marketing and selling stuff for me. And they're surfers and they like do their work on the road. And I'm like, I kind of like the idea of these guys. And I'm like, okay, we're going to meet up somewhere. We're going to do our little planning together. So I mostly what I don't look at it much except about mid year, but what I have done right away is calendar out the new habits and the sort of the milestones. So they're actually all sort of planned at the beginning of the year. And then I'll do like one check mid year.

I found. And this is, I was at EMP program last week after we went to Summit.

EMP is the evolution of the. For our listeners is the entrepreneurial master's program, the evolution of the old birthing of giants program that gave rise to the Rockefeller habits and the scaling up work that we practice as coaches. So just for reference.

Right. So I had about 65 entrepreneurs in there and we were talking through, how do you build this stuff? And I was showing them how I did it. And you know, the way I do it is, you know, a five to seven year progression from not doing it very well, in my opinion, to getting, to getting much better and still looking for improvements. What I, what I found for myself was if I don't look at it on a more consistent basis, if I look at it once a quarter, it's not gonna, I'm not gonna make much progress. I. I look at my plan every day. Mm. And I do it through a very systematic approach of using an old timey paper calendar where I'm actually checking off elements of it every single day. So it goes back to Jim Rhodes, you know, kind of take one small step daily towards your goal.

Yeah.

Daily, daily ritual. So it gets me engaged with on a regular basis. Now, looking backwards, five years ago, yeah. I said I wanted to look at it every day. I looked at it once a month.

Yeah.

Three, four years ago, I said I'm.

Looking at every day.

I looked at it once a week.

Yeah.

Over the last couple of years, I've gotten pretty damn good at looking at it every day. I'm looking for Ways to improve that as I go.

So here's what I've done to improve my own version of it. That definitely won't apply for lots of people that I've gotten to looking at it every day in a different form. So what I did is I took my one year and I collaged it visually into a little poster. I just went and grabbed Google Images. I used Keynote or PowerPoint to sort of layer them up into themes. And I got all the key things that I will be doing by the end. And I have images to represent that. And that is in front of me. It's in my bedroom and in my office and where I work out. Because that's a kind of reflective time as well. Right. And so I have that sort of subtle reinforcement there all the time. And a lot of times it's just sort of wallpaper. And then every now and then I like go, boom. Oh, yeah, there that is. But what I don't do is do any kind of a monthly or quarterly, like, look at the specifics the way I do say on the business side. And I'm like, boom, look. We celebrated ending our quarter this week and we hit our quarterly focus and our theme and we accomplish what we set out to. And so we're celebrating now, and it's really great. But I am not doing the same thing on the personal side in a proactive way. So I'm getting that for sure out of this call. I also am getting the opportunity of bringing it to our regular programmatic. So I've used it inconsistently with clients in the past as part of the engagement. I haven't brought it to the full leadership team as part of the annual program planning or any other point. But now you've got me thinking you've upped my game in that. In that area.

Well, I'll tell you, it's not an easy thing to do. Most people do not want to do it when are very uncomfortable doing it.

Yeah.

You know, I use my own personal experience, that story of being in a box and how it's kind of changed the way I feel about my world, my life.

Right.

You know, my family, my friends and the things are important to me and kind of get them to relate to that, those stories. Because, you know, if they're not in that place already or been there, they're going to be there, you know, in our other coaches. And we have, as, you know, multiple coaches inside of Petra. Some of them are much better at it than others. Right. Some of them are, you know, they're like, oh, man, I just don't know if I can do this because it's just not an easy thing to get people to do. Yeah, you're there as a business coach and to move the business forward.

But yeah, you know, I always think.

One of the big challenges every business.

Has people, I always say wherever you are is the starting point. Right. And it's very hard to get to New York from San Francisco if you're in Nashville. And you got to get wherever you are as your starting point and acknowledge where you are and begin from there. And so like, I'm like, okay, that's where somebody was telling me today about their CEO, a new client that I'm onboarding right now. And. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. That is where he's at. It's a very common, normal thing. And we'll get beyond that and we have to start there. It's not where we'll end up. He'll get through it. He has to develop in the process as well. So I think it's a really powerful thing to just get that wherever you are right now is your starting point and there's an opportunity to elevate from there. Let me, as we're getting a little long in the show now, let me point people back to a couple of things. So first of all, to get Andy's book, no try, go to Amazon and just type no try book or wherever you get your books, but go to Amazon there, type no try book and go download or buy yourself a copy of the book. It's great. Although I just cracked it. I confess I haven't read it yet. I just picked it up from you at our summit user conference. And then a couple other things that Andy does. So Petra coach of course is company. You can go check out his group and model of coaching and I think the world of you and your team and all that. So I recommend you all wholeheartedly. And then he's developed the key software that many of us coaches, our official sort of accountability and business planning software, aligntoday.com and that's the one that I use with all our clients. And you can go check that out as well. So and then we'll have a link to the onepage personal plan in the show notes. So you can just download it here if you look in the show notes and find that link and you can get. That will complement the. The other stuff that's there. And of course, there's a version of it in Andy's software as well. If you're using the software, want to do that with your team. A reminder to if you want to get podcasts like this, art guides and tools and things like that there were putting out, just go subscribe. Go to scalingupbusiness.com and go subscribe or download the Growth guide there and you'll get all this resource you'll get on a weekly basis out from us and you won't have to think about it further. We like to explore all things related to growth. So go there, go get Andy's book, go subscribe and share it with anyone that's appropriate that you think would get some value out of this. I want to thank you Andy for being on the show and thank our listeners for joining us once again. Again, it's been a pleasure.

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