066: Dustin Mathews - Presentations That Drive Effective Results

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All right, this week's show is all about how to have presentations that actually make a difference, that drive results. Look, most of us, most of the listeners of this show have to make a presentation sometimes, but lots of those don't produce the intended outcomes that you and I have for them. And I do it and you do it too. So sometimes we do something that works and sometimes we don't. Today's show, today's speaker is all about how to change that forever. So there you go. Stay with us. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host and growth coach, Bill Gallagher. On the show with us today is Dustin Matthews. Dustin's the co founder of Speaking Empire. It's a business that trains speakers and aspiring speakers to actually produce results. Dustin's helped several companies get on the Inc. 500 list and produce miracles with all kinds of speakers. They work people on a live stage and take them through a whole training program. But he's going to share with us the big ideas about presentations that get people into action. Welcome to the show, Dustin.

Bill, thanks for having me on. I'm really thrilled and you nailed it. It's all about getting people into action in any area of life. But we're talking presentations, so let's do it.

Yeah, well, look, we'll see it into other areas, but it's a big thing. We have to give presentations, we have to talk at trade shows. We have to give major sales pitches. There are whole even, even like board presentations or other things. And we usually have an intended outcome. We want people to do stuff. This is different. A presentation of this kind is different than a meeting where we want to dec or brainstorm something. In this case, we want to present something. We want to fill people, inspire people, propel them into action. I'M excited to hear what you have to say. I know that for myself, I gave a workshop yesterday, and I see in getting ready for the show that I violated some of your rules in getting ready for the workshop I did with 30 people. I've got a couple workshops coming up, intros to the scaling up framework that we want people to take away and get into action around their business. I'm anxious to hear for myself even the wisdom that you've got to share with us. So before we get into all that, I'd like to give a little color. And I know in getting ready for the show, you're in Florida right now. I'm actually in a hotel room in Salt Lake or I'm here working for a couple days before I head back. And so we find ourselves on the road in all places, all the time. And I know you and I both grew up living a lot of places. In fact, I used to joke, I told my wife in the beginning, one of my qualifications was living a lot of places. And she thought that was ridiculous. At least then. So how did you get into the speaking and speaking and coaching speakers, speaking business?

Well, funny story is starting off at university, Bill, did you have to take public speaking in order to graduate?

My dad.

Was that prerequisite for you?

My dad was a college professor, a public speaker, an author, an entrepreneur. So speaking was kind of an organic thing for me and not something that I later, I suppose I studied a little bit, but more from looking at other speakers like Zig Ziglar or somebody like that. Right.

Yeah. So I grew up on the other side of the tracks. If you want to say that. I didn't want to do this. I didn't want to be in front of others. I didn't want to be doing podcasts and interviews. I was a behind the scenes kind of guy. And so I think that's the introverted nature in me. I like to do both, like to come out from the cave every now and again. And so in school, I actually found a loophole to get out of having to take public speaking. And it's funny now because I run a company that trains business owners, entrepreneurs, execs, how to go out and deliver a message powerfully. I think that's the game of life, you know, we get these obstacles and challenges and that's how we overcome it. And so I initially ran from it. And one day while I was working for somebody, they said, listen, you've got to cover for me. And I gave them the whole story longer than I've shared here about why I wasn't the guy, the 17 reasons why it's not me. And they said, listen, if you want to continue working here, you got to do it. So I did it. And. And I was amazed at the result of it. Meaning, like, I didn't think Bill people would take me serious. I got the baby face if you see me on video now. But 10 years ago, it was like, I must have looked 12. And I said, no one's going to take me seriously. And the challenge that I thought was, looks matter. And they do. I'm not here to say, like, it doesn't help you in society. I do want to share this. If you've got specialized knowledge or if you've got a solution to a problem out there, people that are hungry, that have that pain want to listen to you. And so that's what I experienced. People bought my products and services. They bought into the ideas. And so once I tasted it, I was hooked. And so that's been my mission and passion, is to really empower people to get out there and start spreading their message.

Yeah, okay, I got it. So you had to actually get into this by going through. You were essentially in the real estate business. Right. And became a speaker and a speaker trainer.

Yeah, that's right. Well, I wasn't a speaker trainer yet. I still had to grow my confidence as a speaker. And so what happened was I went out and started filling rooms and giving a presentation because originally I was driving everywhere trying to make these sales one off. And then I said, you know what, we need to get them in a room and I need to deliver a message. And so we started doing that. It became extremely successful. And knowing about your book, scaling up, that's what we did to scale real quickly is invite a bunch of people to one location and deliver a message that got them to buy our product and service. And so I think a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs can leverage this in a room, on a webinar, on a Facebook, live, on a podcast. There's so many media nowadays for us to use and leverage to grow quickly.

That's interesting. So you were struggling with that and you just decided to put more people in a room to scale up that message. Well, I think a lot of us have done something like that. Why don't you take us through what you learned in the process of that? I think that became the basis of the work you're doing now, didn't it?

Absolutely. So we did 3,000 events in a short time frame.

You're going to Learn there.

Yeah, it was a pressure cooker environment. I'm very fortunate to have been there. I got to test a lot of things and see what works. Essentially what came out of that is a five step process. Here's the thing, Bill. Everybody does these things in a presentation, whether they know it or not. As they say, knowledge is power. The five components of a powerful presentation are one, the intro, two stories, three, an offer. And what I mean by that is not coming out and saying, hey, I've got these watches for sale, or hey, I've got this product for sale, but educating and building value. And I'll unpack that in just a second. Four is the meat. It's the content that people call it. Now I say the content is the whole presentation. But this is where you might see somebody steps. You may see three steps to success or five steps to having a better business. That's where that is. And then five is the close. And so these are the five components of a presentation. And so I've got a tip or strategy in each one that people can immediately use in implement in their business. Are we ready to get into those?

Yeah, let's do it.

All right, so let's talk intro. Like this is a conversation, Bill. This isn't a conversation about presentation.

Wait, wait. So our assumption is here, now you've got an event, you've got some people showing up. You're gonna make a presentation on something related to your business that matters to you and you want to produce a result. Right now we're going to go into doing it. We're not actually looking at how to put butts in seats or.

Right, got it.

Okay, good.

We're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about the message. And I want to say this applies to folks that are listening in, that are in a boardroom. This applies to folks that run teams. This applies to somebody selling one to one. And so this is a conversation about influential communication. And yes, it's about presentations, but it's, it's really bigger than that. So.

Yeah, well, I'll tell you your, your number, like where this gets on from. I once went through and I did a series of. That's about 60 of the same event. And I got massively trained in that. And the numbers that you did is like a whole order of magnitude or several above that. And that's just awesome.

Yeah, absolutely. And what's unique and funny about that is a was formulaic. And so we gave the same pitch time and time again once it was refined. And so we kept getting the same result. And really, this is what I want folks to get, is consistent results. And whether you give a presentation once or you give it 3,000 times, it's all about how do we get the most effective result out of it.

All right, intro.

Yeah, all right, intro. So I always look around in society and I say, what can I learn? And so I look at the most influential and the highest paid people in society. And oftentimes you'll find on this list athletes, you'll find celebrities, you'll find royalty, right? You'll find the President of the United States. And so not the highest paid, but, you know, very influential, of course. And so I say, okay, what can I learn from them? Well, when they come out to a function or an event, they never just show up, they are properly introduced. So if you go to your favorite rock concert, you're not watching the Rolling Stones right away, you're watching the two warm up bands before the Stones come out, right? If you go to your favorite sports thing, like a basketball game, right, they turn off all the lights in the coliseum and they announce the players come out, right? So there's this buildup, there's this anticipation, there's this excitement. The president, when he comes out, you know, a guy walks out and he says, Mr. Speaker, the President of the United States. And so I'm telling you all this because if you want to influence, if you want to put the cards in your favor, then what you should consider doing when you do a presentation is having someone or something introduce you.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I just to come alongside, reinforce you there. I know that when I'm walking, when I see someone or when I'm walking out to talk about something, if somebody hasn't introduced the person or I haven't been introduced, if the speaker's not introduced, then everybody's left with, who is this person? And what gives them the right to be in front of the room doing the talking right now? Right? Where's the credibility? And am I really ready for this message?

That's absolutely right. And you know, the first seven seconds matters. I mean, we've all heard that, that it takes. People judge a book by its cover, and so they're assessing. And so if you're a speaker or you're delivering a message, I say, and someone hasn't pre framed it, then you just have to work that much harder. And probably their constraints, like you only have 30 minutes or 90 minutes. And so every second matters. And so the introduction is powerful. So one of my favorite strategies is coming with an intro video. Because, Bill, I'm not a braggadocious guy. It's just who I am. If you strengths finder or whatever person, I'm just not that guy. I'm not going to come out and talk about my accolades. However, I will give you a script to introduce me or someone else or I will come to an event with an introduction video that says, you know, multiple time offer. He's done this, he's done that, he's done this. And so I get in some environments, like a boardroom, you're not going to show a video before, you know, like introducing you. But could you get a key decision maker who's the influencer in that room that you could get to start the meeting and then properly introduce you to influence in your favor? So that's a big, big one for intro.

Yeah. Get it. Okay.

All right, sounds good. So let's go to number two, which is story. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean we're going right to story right away. Stories need to be in a present. Now, I'm going to. I know a lot of different people are listening in, so just bear with me on this. So you've got to tell a transformative story. So what life was like, you found something, you discovered a process, you invented something, and now life is better. And so sometimes when I say that, Bill, I'm going to ask you this question. People think of like the motivational skit on SNL by Chris Farley. You ever see that one?

Yeah.

If you haven't seen down by the river, down by the River. If you haven't, you got to Google it. It'll just make you laugh. And so people think, oh, gosh, I don't want to be that guy. Like the broke guy living down by the river. Like, that would just ruin my cr. And I say, okay, I got it. But the point is, you do want to tell a transformative story. So whether you're selling yourself and you talk about how life was and then you discovered this process, or you discovered when you were building businesses that there were really three to five things that really help you scale, then you do yourself a great favor because you're talking about a transformation, and then you're linking it to your product. And most speakers, most people that are communicating in front of groups are forgetting the link. So they may tell a story of the department, they may tell a story of the marketplace or even a story of themselves, but they forget to link it to the thing that they're actually talking about. And if you don't do that. It's harder to sell your idea.

Right. So I've told many a story, and I remember in this one series of workshops, I used to tell a story about my mom, my relationship with my mom growing up and all that kind of thing. And it was very transformational, very moving. Right. And for a long time, it was like people were all emotional after hearing the story, but they didn't see how it related to growing their business or to whatever. And it wasn't until I added a question or a tag or something onto the end that illustrated back how this wasn't. Because if you didn't have that same issue with your mom that I had with my mom in those days, then it didn't impact you. But when I pointed back to the underlying concept of it and left people with a question, the light bulb started to go off, right?

Yep.

So they're inspired by something they can't put a finger on, and then a connection gets brought to it.

Absolutely. And then I would say if we're actually, like, being forward and selling a product, like going for a product sale, where you really have to move the audience from where they are to actually giving money, which is a big task if you think about it, like, you've got to build trust, make the case. And so I would say, you know, when you were with, you know, you were telling that story. It was in that process or in that story that you discovered one of the key elements that is so mission critical to people scaling their business. Like, let's say we're selling you, you're scaling up program. And so I would link it there in that moment. So people are like, okay, that story made sense. And then obviously that sort of baked in. So I got his wisdom from what he learned, and it's baked into this product or his philosophy. And so it just naturally links, and it's just very smooth and fluid of a conversation. Okay, all right. So after that, so you've got stories. Just know that you got to tell transformative stories. If you look at Hollywood, if you look at Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Right. Some sort of transformation that takes place or that has taken place. So make sure to tell that. Once you do, then you want to now get into the offer. And what I mean by offer is not the problem.

Now, wait, hang on a second. Actually, in your workshop and in your book, do you talk about how to tell a compelling story and how to structure the transformational aspect? Because I think a lot of people have a notion of a story, but they're not sure how to bring the good storytelling to it.

Yeah, absolutely. In the book we have examples and stories and so I can unpack it a little bit if you want. Here.

Well, yeah, no, I think we should go on to your other points first, then we can come back to it.

Okay, let's do it.

But yeah, let's give people the overview and then there's more about that in the book. We'll give people a link to the no BS presentations.

I love it. I love it. So then after the storytelling phase, and again, you're not just telling one story and moving on, you're baking them in throughout. But the next core concept of a presentation is your offer. And so the big challenge I see with speakers or communicators is they make assumptions about the audience, meaning that they use jargon and they expect the audience to know it or they expect them to be experts or peers. And that's not always the case. So what you have to consider is when you make an offer or when you're doing this correctly, you've got to turn up the pain or describe what the challenge in the marketplace. So describe what the problem is. Right. And you do that with statistics. You do it by citing cnn, Wall Street Journal, the whatever is relevant to your audience. And then you let them know that, listen, you have a solution. And the solution is not the product per se, but it's my philosophy. I recognize there was a challenge in the marketplace. Wall Street Journal says this and this about business growth. I went out and put together the scaling of if I'm using you, Bill, as an example, I discovered this sort of scaling up process in methodology. What you do is you, you've told them what the challenge is and then you say, listen, I've got a solution. The solution is this. And that naturally gets you into the next step, which is the body.

Okay.

All right, so let's dive into the body. So what I want people to consider, think about is whatever it is you tell people to be successful, whatever your methodology or your process is, I want you to boil it down into three to five steps. So if you try to do like 17 steps in one presentation, especially if you've got like 45 minutes, you're going to be speaking fast and your audience is going to get overwhelmed. And so what's useful is if you do have 17 to say, listen, I'm going to share with you the, you know, the five biggest components or the five key things that you need to understand. And what you've done is you've created an Open loop, which is great because you've given them five and now they are hungry for more. The other 12 if you pull it off effectively. And so let's give an example to make this concrete. Let's say you sell weight loss, you show people how to become healthier. So let's say, I say to you, okay, what are the five steps to being successful? Well, one, drink more water. Two, look at the fork twice before you put it in your mouth. Three, get a smaller plate. Four and five. Right, Whatever four and five are. Now, likely you've heard, Bill, have you heard of some of those before?

Yes.

Right. So nothing new under the sun, right? And so your audience is like, eh, I've heard that, you know, nothing special. However, if you called it the instant weight loss formula. Now I know that sounds a little hypey and forward, but by you calling it something, it is now a process. And people love to buy process. They love to buy systems.

They want a recipe, they want a step, they want a process. Yep. Yeah, they want to be formula system.

That's right. All of those. All of those. Now if you're not as creative with the words and it's not the instant weight loss formula, then the easiest thing to do is call it your last name in a method. So like, you know, if I were struggling to come up with the name for this weight loss thing, I'd just call it the Matthews method. And so. Right. The Matthews method has an alliteration for weight loss. And so now I am instantly unique in the marketplace. No one else has the Matthews method. And so if I want to take it a step further, I would trademark it. So if you want to hang your hat on something like scaling up, right, like you go down, you trademark it. So what I would say is, when you trademark things, let me ask you, Bill, when you see a TM or an R after something, what does that, like, tell you? What does it communicate to you?

Oh, it's legit. They've been working on it for a while. It's just not baked yesterday.

You know, all those things, which definitely, that's all those things. And it definitely furthers the sale. So it's like, oh, well, what is that? Oh, that looks more substantial than this other guy over here who just seems like he invented it out of nowhere. And so you want to stack the deck in your favor. So if you are selling a product or you are an inventor, you ought to consider the trademark if you're going to really want to own that. Now, this next part is critical. So You've got your five steps right, or whatever it is. Maybe it's three, maybe it's nine, but try to keep it small. Then what I want you to do is I want you to tell a story or case study in between each one. And I sort of got this from my kids. I got two young boys. One is three right now. And so he's really saying no to me a lot. It's a fun, challenging. Well, you remember those days? Yes, it's a fun, challenging time. So here's what I think about. If I tell you drink more water, you may say, ah, Dustin, I tried that thing in the 90s. I tried that water diet. And you know what? I actually gained five pounds. So I'm the guy in the audience right now that just heard that. I've got my arms crossed. And I just tuned you out for the rest of the presentation because he told me something that didn't work. So what do you do? Well, you tell a case study and you say, well, you know, I also told this to Bill. He tried it in, you know, 2004, and he was a coke drinker. And, you know, all I said is, listen, Bill, just for the next seven days, just humor me. Just drink two glasses of water a day and I'm going to check back with you on the eighth day and see what happens. So he did it. He hated it, but he did. And on the eighth day, I checked in with him and he was 3.7 pounds lighter. And so now when I sort of tell you that story now, if you're the guy that was in the audience and your arms are crossed, you're like, well, maybe I didn't really drink as much water. Maybe I really didn't do it right, or maybe I should keep listening. And so then you do that with step two, and you tell step three. And so you're making the case. And so in your body, make sure to have five steps, three steps, whatever it is, but tell a case study as much as you can for the time you're allotted so that you can really further the sale. Makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah.

All right, so we've unpacked a lot here, so let's get into the close. This is the most important part and the biggest thing I can share with folks is don't wait till the end. And what I mean by that is you should be getting sequential agreements throughout. So as a demonstration in this podcast or in this interview, I've been playing off of Bill, I've been asking Bill questions, I've been checking In. Does that make sense, Bill? What do you think of that? I've been asking that now because I. I can't ask you. You're listening on your car, you're listening on your computer. I can't physically get an answer. So in a room, you can check in and you say, well, does that make sense? How many of you can see yourself doing this? These are called trial closes. And so you want to make sure that you don't wait to the very end before you actually go for the big ask. You want to make sure that you're getting yeses throughout so that it's natural, it feels easy. The other thing, and Bill, I think you mentioned it, was you let them know right away that there is an opportunity to get something right from the beginning. And the reason.

So that's like, listen, here's how the afternoon's gonna go. I'm gonna share this. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna give you. And at the end, you'll have a chance to buy this thing if you'd like to do that. Right?

That's exactly right. And the challenge is, like, people are afraid of that. And so here's what happens. Like, people are not stupid. The audience is not stupid. Like, you know, they got your invitation for a free steak dinner, or they got an invitation, an email for your free web.

Here it comes.

Yeah. Like, they know. So you know what? They're not stupid. Like, don't be. Don't, like, try to dance around it, get it out of the way. So you let them know right away. That alleviates the stress on the speaker, and then that alleviates the anticipation of the audience, because they're saying the whole time, I know he's going to sell me something. I know he's going to sell me something. And so, like, let's get that out of the way and say, listen, this is how it works. At the end. Some of you are going to get an opportunity to come with me on a journey, get to the next level or whatever it is. And so all that pressure just goes right away. So that's not step number two in your close. And then the last thing I want to pack in here is this idea of the irresistible offer. So I've created this thing called irresistible offer architecture. And actually, I want to take a step back. Bill, you're a student of the game. You've helped companies grow big. You're a student. You understand business. Am I the first guy ever in your walk of life that has ever talked about irresistible offers?

Not so much.

Nope, not at all. That's exactly right. Like, I am not the only guy. And I suspect if you listening into this podcast, you're a student of the game too. And so I am the only guy that does have Irresistible Offer Architecture. So just like I'm a student of the student, I'm a product of the product. So just like I said, hey, go create five steps and call it the Matthews Method. Well, that's what I did. So I created Irresistible Offer Architecture. It actually has nine components. Now, I'm not going to go into all nine. We just don't have time. But I will give you the two biggest things. So when you make an offer, what I want you to think about are what are the objections? And I want you to speak in benefits. So let me explain so you really get it. I want you to think like an infomercial. Let's say you're watching infomercial. Very rarely do you ever watch from the beginning all the way to the end. That would be the most ideal scenario. And so I always think about that. No one is fully paying attention, right? So when someone's in a room, they listen to a speaker, you know, they get a text message, they're on Twitter, whatever, they're distracted, right? I think about missing my whole presentation. And if all they saw was the close where I'm getting excited even more and I'm telling them about my product now, it's going to change their life. If all they saw was that, do they buy?

Yes.

Well, that's ideally, right? That's what you want to think about. Like as a copywriter, I was trained as a copywriter. They always taught me to write the order form first. And if the order form, the one page summary of everything, if that could sell whatever it is you're selling, then everything else is gravy. You might not even need the sales letter. Now, I know that's a big ask for some of us because some of us are selling, you know, hundred thousand million dollar projects, right? So like, you know, this is a big ask, but the concept is how do I make the offer so irresistible that if they were just reading the term sheet, that it speaks in benefits. So as an example, if one of the objections is time, why not put a time management course in there? You know, go interview somebody. And so when you're at the back table or when someone's talking to you and say, listen, I buy your course, but I'm just so dang busy. Great, buy the course. I have time management in there for you. It's going to show you how to get three hours back in. My course only takes two hours. You're actually going to get a bonus of an hour. And so now they get an added benefit. So that's a real crass, real easy example of like, how do I put things in the offer that help overcome objections that my audience may have. And then the other thing is this, Bill. Most people, when they get up there to talk, you know, the program that you've created, your methodology, your process, it takes a lot. Like if you're a writer, if you're a thought leader, a lot goes into making a book or a podcast. And so it's a labor of love. And so sometimes us as the creators, we want to tell the universe. We want to tell the world. Listen, I've got a 1678 page workbook, or better yet, I've got 349 hours of content for you now, Bill, do you want to watch 349 hours of anything tomorrow? I hear it in your voice, right? And so, you know, that's the challenge. It's like you're trying to communicate to the world, look how much love, look how much, you know, effort I put into this to make this awesome. They don't hear that. All they hear is work, work, work, time, work. And so what I want you to consider is speaking benefits, really. This is a conversation about copywriting. I want you to set, instead of saying the 1,678 page workbook. Let's call it the instant Success Playbook, let's call it the Rapid results manual or guide. Right? So let's just think about the names and the words that we use when we're describing the offer that we want. And so those are the big core components of a powerful presentation.

I think I get it. So let's just look back. So we want to have a powerful intro to establish the credibility and the listening so people are warmed up, they're ready, they're giving us the benefit of the doubt. In the beginning, we want to tell a compelling, transformative story that gets people, that touches people in some way emotionally, but is actually connected to what we're offering. We want to make a sort of a summary offer and make clear after that what we're actually offering and why it's a benefit to them. Then we want to go into and give people the main points. The steps are our formula or whatever it is. If we can package it, name it, trademark it, all the better. But the pieces to our product or service that are going to benefit them and undo. And in each of those points, if we can have a case study or an example of it, like a mini story that makes. Makes it real, all the better. And then we want to go for the close. And in giving the close, we want to deal up front with the common things that we know are uncomfortable for people. They're likely objections, right?

That's right, Bill. That was a masterful summation of what I just presented there. And that's exactly right. You got it.

Nice. Well, then I listened well. And it does have me thinking about other things. Sometimes I just want people to take action in their business. Other times in a workshop, I might want people to apply to work with a coach. Sometimes I want people to come to a workshop. Right. All the time we have different outcomes. And our audience speaks at trade shows and to masterminds and to boards and to investors and things like that all the time. And they're all thinking about something. So what is it? Can we take people through the whole framework like that so that it's well set up so it has the best chance to succeed? So your book is no BS presentations and you can go find the book and get it and read all about it, go deeper into all of these things, including like how to construct a more compelling transformational story and so on. That's nobspresentations.com and they can also link over from there to your business. And you do an amplify experience a thing three times a year. So. So it's only every four months or so that people can sign up and go do a live workshop where they get to work on their skills with you. How long is that workshop?

Amplify experience is three days, but we've included a media day where we invite folks. So now it's a four day event.

Nice. So four days, three times a year. And they can find out about that. And they should probably start with nobspresentations.com, well, I. Super successful. Super successful. Points for sharing. And I appreciate having them on. I think having a formula for improving those times when we have to speak the results of them is really, really helpful. We help people scale up. You could read the book Scaling up as I did, or the original book, the Rockefeller Habits, years ago and apply it perfectly to your business. Or you could start to listen to our podcast, come to our workshops, or even work with a coach and get some help to figure out how to apply it properly and make that process easier to scale up your company through 10 million, 100 million, or even like our most passionate clients reaching for a billion dollars in sales. The Scaling Up Framework is an easy, foolproof formula that helps you master the four big decisions people, strategy, execution and cash and get those things right so that your business grows and grows successfully and beats the odds. If you'd like more info about our public workshops or to subscribe to the podcast, go to scalingupbusiness.com today and go subscribe there or register for one of our workshops. We'd love to have you. Scalingupbusiness.com Dustin Matthews Nobius Presentations Another great podcast in the can. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening.

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