072: JT McCormick - There is Power to Telling Your Personal Story

Are you thinking about how to grow your business with near and offshore staffing, but you're also wanting to make sure that it's reliable, cost effective and really well done? I think docsa talent is the way to go. Here's why. They don't just fill your jobs. They bring integrity, top talent, and a people first approach that's hard to find. I've known the people at Doxa talent for over 20 years now and I say that you can count on them. I have. Talk to Docs of Talent and you won't be disappointed. Go to docsatant.com Bill G. Again, that's doxatant.com Bill G. One more time. Doxatalent.com Bill G. Check it out today.

Oh, what a show we have for you this week. This I hope this is an inspiring and thought provoking show for you that we have today. I want you to hear a story that'll challenge your reality. Have you grateful for the challenges that you have and have you seen new opportunity? And I want to leave you today with the freedom, the permission, the courage to find your story and tell your story powerfully. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business Podcast. I'm your host and Gazelle's business growth coach, Bill Gallagher. On the show with us today is JT McCormick. JT is an amazing human being, as you'll hear, but he has a terrific story to tell. He's the president and CEO of Book in a Box. And Book in a Box is exactly what it sounds like. It's a company that'll help you publish a story. Right. And like everyone, he knows that we've all got a story to tell. I wanted JT to share his story with you and the journey and like all that. So he's the CEO of this company and they do a tremendous amount of stuff. He's also a father and he's active in his community and he's been featured in cnbc, Forbes, Entrepreneur Magazine and are you in Austin today?

JT I am in Austin today. I finally get to be home this week.

That's a super fun town. Welcome to the show.

Thank you, Bill. I appreciate it.

Nice. All right, so tell us about, tell us. Well, actually, you know what? I'd love to hear the inspiration. Why don't you start with that moment that you saw that you were going to have a kind of a different life than maybe would be expected from your birth.

So there was a particular moment at the age of 10 years old that really set me on a different path. I was In Houston, Texas. And my father was driving me through a community called River Oaks. And so go, go to any large city and imagine the most upscale community within that city. And that's what, what River Oaks is in Houston. And what was mind blowing for me as we drove through this community was I saw homes 10, 15, $25 million that were larger than the public housing, aka projects that I lived in. And one family lived within these, these homes. And I was mind blown by it. And that was really the first step for me. It seemed like different because before that moment, the first 10 years of my life, all I had ever seen were pimps, prostitutes, drug dealers, welfare, despair, crackheads, heroin addicts. There was no, I didn't know anything else.

Well, so tell us where you come from. So share a little bit of your upbringing with us.

So my father was a black pimp in the 1970s. And I mean that literal. It's not like now where Jay Z has turned the term pimp into a positive now and someone refers to someone as a pimp and it's a positive. No, my father was a 1970s pimp. He put a woman on a corner, she sold her body and brought the money back to my father. My father had 23 children. I'm one of 23, I'm the only one by my mother. And my mother was raised in an orphanage in the 1950s. Institutional kids are neglected mentally, physically. She grew up in an institutional orphanage, and when she turned 17, they gave her $20 a suitcase and said, good luck to you. So, so my father is black, my mother is white. And so back in the 70s, I'm 46 years old. Back in the 70s, that was not nice. Race mixing was not a good thing back in the 70s. So black people didn't like me because I was half white. White people didn't like me because I was half black. And in many ways it was difficult for me to find a place to fit in. So there was an identity piece to that as well. You know, again, first nine years of my life, I lived with my mother and we were on welfare. We were poor. We, you know, we, we often joked that we were so poor we could not afford the O and the R. We were just po. And so with that, we, we made the best of it. And my mother, we were both learning simultaneously. She had grown up in an institutional orphanage. So many of the things that she learned, I was learning at the same time. She was the one piece that I could guarantee is when my father did pick me up on those rare Occasions was total chaos. I was sexually abused on many different occasions by my father's prostitutes. I constantly saw my father beat women. And on any different day when I was with him, you never knew if his house was going to be raided by the police and you watch your father walk out in handcuffs. So, yeah, it was a pretty chaotic upbringing. I'll share one story with you, Bill. Actually two, if you'll indulge me. With my mom, I remember coming home, I was five years old. We were coming off of the bus, and as we got closer to our apartment building, we saw all of these belongings out on the curb, and they were our belongings. And as we got closer, we realized, oh, wow, why is all of our stuff out here? And the landlord comes running out of the apartment building and he looks at my mother and he tells her, no nigger lovers can live here. And I was five years old. And so I remember at that moment thinking to myself, okay, we have no place to go, we have no money and we have no family. What are we going to do? And I just remember the moment of sitting on the curb there with all of our belongings with my mother, not knowing where we were going to go. And we just, we cried together. So that was what my mother and I faced quite often. And then as far as my dad, the one story I'll share with you is there was this particular time he picked me up on the weekend and he had two of my half brothers with us. And in the 1970s, the car of choice for a black man was the Cadillac. Well, my dad had a special Cadillac. It was all candy apple red on the outside. The inside leather seats were candy apple red. The carpet was candy apple red. And so when you got in this car, you didn't dare breathe too hard, put your feet on the seats, anything. You sat there, you did not move. He loved that car into the this day. I swear he loved that car more than he loved his kids. But. So he picks us up, myself and my half brother's in the backseat, he's got one of his prostitutes in the front. They start arguing. That's no big deal to us. We constantly know when we're with our dad and there's a prostitute with him, there's going to be arguing and she's probably going to get hit at some point. Well, we had just gone through the drive through at Wendy's, and my dad and this prostitute are arguing and she pulls a burger out of the bag and she hits my father in the side of the head with the burger. Now Many would think, oh, wow, she just hit my dad. That's not actually what went through my head. What went through my head was, oh, shit, you just got burger on the car. So right there, imagine a busy highway. My dad puts the car in park, middle of the highway, walks around, opens the door, pulls this woman out by her hair, commences to beat her just brutally there in the middle of the highway, takes the bag of food, dumps it on her, takes her purse, dumps it on her, walks back around, gets in the car, puts it in drive. And Bill, as calmly as you can imagine, turns around, looks at my brothers and I and says, where would you guys like to go eat? As if nothing happened. And that was. That was the chaos that, that I grew up in.

You know, I.

You have.

Comfort with it today, like you can share it. It's the. The emotion of the little boy crying. The stuff's not there. But these are, you know, this is wild. Not normal, ordinary kinds of things and not easy. Like there's a. To watch someone being beaten to people being hurt and abused and things like that. That's a tough thing to go through.

You know, very much, Bill. And I've made peace with it. I would say the number one area of which I've made peace is I always say to myself, always, I can't change the past. I literally can't. I can't change the fact that I was sexually abused. I can't change the parents that I was born to. I can't change the fact that I was in juvenile three different times. But I can change the future. I can change what happens the next hour tomorrow, things of that nature. And what I mean by that is, is each morning, if you'll indulge me here, each morning I wake up between 3:45 and 4:00am and I'm human. There are days where I want to hit snooze. I want to go back to sleep. I look over at my wife, she's passed out. I want to go back to sleep. But I say to myself, okay, somewhere in this world there is someone with cancer in a hospital bed that's never going to leave that hospital bed. And all I have to do is get up and make the most of this day, and that's what gets me out of bed.

I get that. So all of these things go on. Right. And you were telling one story I heard you share before, about how you were left alone in a place for a long period of time. You went off with your dad, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. This one's the this was a tough one for me, but yes, I'll tell it so I'll spare you the details of how we got there, but I'm living with my father and his prostitute.

So you spent most of the time growing up with your mom. Right, but then at one point you.

I spent the first nine years of my life with my mother and I spent the ages 10 through 15 in absolute chaos with between my father and some of his prostitutes, one of my uncles, an aunt here, a girlfriend there, a prostitute over there, juvenile over here. So There was a five year stretch for me, ages 10 to 15 that were just, it was brutal. I don't wish that upon anyone. But to Your point, I'm 12 years old and I'm living with my father's prostitute who is a horrific heroin addict. And my father comes to the house one day and he says, hey, I'm going to England for two weeks. And truth be told, he left for two weeks and he didn't come back until a year later. So that was the longest two weeks in the history of mankind. But did he go to England? Yeah, he actually went to England and so God only knows what he was doing there. But I got left with the is prostitute. My three half brothers and sisters who were ages 12 and 3 or 12 and 4, they were, they were back to back. And so on a Sunday afternoon she tells us, I'm going to get a pack of cigarettes. I didn't think anything of it. It was common. Well, Sunday afternoon turned into Sunday evening, she's still not back. Sunday evening turns into Tuesday, she's still not back. Well, well, I'm supposed to be at school. And so two days turn into five, so on and so forth. Well, about day three, day five, I realized, okay, we're running out of food here. So I tell the four year old, hey, sit down with our brothers and sisters and watch the kids. I'm telling a 4 year old to watch the kids.

And I go down three and one.

Four, three, one, yeah, four, three, one. So I go down to the store and I steal food for us to eat and come back. And this goes on. Five days turns into seven, seven turns into nine. Well now we've run out of diapers for the little guy, my little half brother. And I didn't know what to do. I couldn't go steal diapers. So I sit him on the toilet and he's crying, I'm crying, he's yelling, I don't know what to do. And I look at him, I tell Him. Sorry, buddy. This is. This is how it's got to go down. I don't know how else to potty train you other than to make you sit here until something comes out. And it's very frustrating for me now to think about that moment because I have three children, ages 3, 2, and 7 months, and to think of, I would never potty train my children that way. And to think of how I potty trained him, it very much bothers me. But what ended up happening is my middle sister, her birthday came around, and I realized, oh, my gosh, what are we going to do? So I go back down to the store and I steal a pack of Oreos. And, Bill, bear with me here, because this one always chokes me up. The way we had to celebrate her birthday was I took three Oreos and the candles that I had stolen, and I put three candles in there for her birthday so she could have a birthday party was all I knew to do. And, man, that story gets me.

But.

To fast forward here, their mom ended up being gone for three weeks. I didn't go to school. I didn't leave my half brothers and sisters. I stayed there. And so when she shows up, my half brothers and sisters are obviously excited because their mother just got home. And so they run up to her, they give her love, and I let everyone have their moment. And afterwards, I go up to her and I look at her straight in the eyes. I'm 12 years old. And I say, where in the F. Have you been? This woman punched me so hard that my ears started bleeding. I fell to the ground. She started beating me and kicking me, and I ended up running away. So, yeah, that was a very tough moment. And honestly, Bill, the beating wasn't tough. It was the three weeks of just unknowing. My mother didn't know where I was. My father was in England, and I was here with three half brothers and sisters that I had no clue what to do.

And a stepmom. Ish.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

What did you go to juvenile for?

So my first time I went to juvenile, when I left that prostitute's house, I got sent to another one of my dad's prostitutes house. And I thought all was well with the world. She had two sons and. And things were kind of nice. Yeah, it was better. I was like, wow, this is. They treated me like a little brother. Well, when they left on the weekend to their dad's house, oh, lo and behold, I discovered that this woman's an alcoholic. Well, I guess I looked a little too Much like my father. And this woman would get drunk and start beating me. At this point, I'm just a frustrated 12 year old. I'm tired of getting my ass kicked. And I fought back and I beat her up pretty good. She called the police, police on me. And I went to juvenile. That was what I went to juvenile for the, the first time. And Bill, what, what really sucked, if you will, is when I went to juvenile the first time, no one knew I was there. My mother was in Texas, my father was in England. And the only way I'm in there for about two and a half months, the only reason I got out of juvenile, my formal name is Javon. And in the 70s, that wasn't a common name. One of the correction officers asked me, she said, do you have an aunt named Jean? And I said yes. And so she goes and calls my aunt, I guess they were friends. And she says, hey, your nephew is here. He's been here almost three months and no one has even called, checked on this kid, anything. And so my aunt came in and picked me up. That was the only reason I got out of juvenile.

Wow. It's a little overwhelming, right? And one of the reasons that I wanted to bring you on is to give people the courage to tell their story, to confront, to be open about the challenges they face, but also to appreciate the problems that they have. I sat next to a billionaire who lives near me in very interesting, self made man, a good guy. And I sat next to him at lunch one day at a business lunch. And his message was this. He said, one of my main sort of lessons in life was to be thankful for the problems you have.

Oh, definitely.

He's like, I thank God because I drive down the road and I see somebody else with a different set of problems. And it just helps me to appreciate and remember that all my challenges are real to me. They're real, they're heartbreaking, they're, they're difficult, they're whatever, but they're mine. And I would much rather have mine than somebody else's.

Totally. And you know, it's interesting, Bill, my mother, because of the way I grew up, you know, I was always judged. My mother was always judged for having a son with a black man. And here I was, mixed race. I was always judged. And my mother always told me from a young age, never judge people because everyone has a story and you don't always know what their story is. And that always stuck with me, that everyone has a story. Just as with me, I have no clue to this day where my last name comes from. My mother was given that name in the children's home. She has no clue why, if she was. Was sent to the children's home with it or if they slapped it on her when she was there. So I've got this last name that I have no clue where it comes from.

Oh, interesting. So the last name is your maternal last name?

That is. Yes, that is my mother's last name. And I asked her, I said, why? Why did you give me your last name? And my mother's response was, because I grew up in the children's home. I never had anything of my own. Had anything of my own. So when I had you and you were my son, you were my only thing that I had ever had that I could call my own. So given that your father and I weren't married, I was bound and determined that you would have my last name.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, that's. That's. So that's why I have the last name.

Because you are her most treasured thing.

Exactly, exactly.

I assume both your parents have passed on, are they?

No, actually, my mother is actually still alive. She's not in the best of health, but she is still alive. I talk to her and see her often, but, yeah, she's not in the best of health at all. And oddly enough, Bill, my father passed away about a year ago when I was in the middle of writing my book, and I had not seen my father for 30 years. I had not been back to Dayton, Ohio, for 30 years. I had actually vowed that I would never go back to that godforsaken city. And my half brother, in fact, the half brother that I potty trained, emailed me. He was the only sibling that I actually kept up with. He emailed me and said, our father passed away. And I struggled mightily on. Do I go back to Dayton? Do I, you know, quote, unquote, pay my respects, whatever? And I decided to go back, and thankfully I did, because I ended up paying for my father's funeral as well. And if you'll give me this moment, I remember sitting there and I go to this funeral, and I was blown away by how many people were at my father's funeral. It was standing room only. And you had so many pimps that showed up for my father's funeral. I was like, wow, this is like a circus in here. And so what was mind blowing to me is I got to hear all of these pimps and different people say all these great things about my father that I didn't have those Memories of him. And so when it came my turn to quote, unquote, speak, because everybody gets two minutes to speak, I go up to the microphone and I said, I go. I'm blown away by how many people are here to pay respect to my father. And it's actually I'm enjoying the moment because I don't have these memories of my father. The memories I have of my father were when he would call my mother and say, get him dressed. I'm coming. Coming to pick him up. And I'd sit there in the window for four and five hours, and he'd never show up. I said, those are the memories I have of my father. And the only reason I'm here today is because be it heaven, be it hell, or wherever he's watching from, I did not want him waiting on me like I waited on him for all those years.

It's fascinating. It sounds like you have still a complicated relationship with him that on the one hand, you see, speak as he is a character, but also a monster. A monster. A character. But I hear in there some, you know, a boy also who didn't get enough of his dad.

Oh, not at all those particular times, though, when my dad did show up. Oh, God, I remember running in and jumping in his arms. Every. Every little boy wanted that moment with their father. And I remember those weekends I did have time with my father. Is harsh as this may sound, I learned a lot from him. You know, it takes a different kind of individual that can convince a woman to stand on a corner and sell herself for money and to give it all back to him. So many of the lessons that I've learned in life, from hustling to speak to everybody. One of the lessons that my dad taught me, Bill, is I'll be quick. He picks me up one weekend, and we're walking down in the grocery store.

And.

A little girl passes me by, and she says, hi, Jevon. And I didn't say anything. And my father smacks the hell out of me in the back of my head. My. My face hits the ground and my nose starts bleeding. He pins me up against the frozen food section door with his forearm, and he looks at me and he says, I don't care who it is. You speak to everyone. You show everyone respect and say hello. Now, this is from the man who beats the hell out of women, telling me to show respect to everyone. But that lesson stuck with me.

Well, he's hitting you there, too.

Yes. And to this day, I speak to everyone. So there's so many lessons that I took from him. But you're right, he was a monster. He is a character. But there is still that point where. Yeah. I do have some minor moments where I remember being happy to see my father.

So in the middle of all that, you are still a boy who also loved his dad.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's so fascinating. Our lives are so complex.

So complex. It's even amongst all the chaos. And that's what it was. I knew. I knew if one thing I could count on my dad for, it was chaos. And so even among all of the chaos. Yeah. There's still some. Some love there for my father because there are some lessons that I took from him.

Yeah.

You know, Bill, I tell people this. My father never taught me how to be a father. He taught me how not to be a father.

Yeah. But it's fun. In the end, we're still just reactions. I see time and time again in my interactions with teams, with CEOs, with senior execs, with leaders of all kinds of that. All of our relationships and all our ways of relating are extensions of things that we learned as children. The way that our parents interacted with each other, the way that we interacted with them, the way we interacted with our siblings. All of those kinds of things are patterns that keep getting repeated. And some people do the work to sort of set that in the past and to create new versions or to grow up from them. But you were either, like, trying to live up to them or were trying not to be like them. But it's still some extension or version of that thing. And we've seen in history people who went through unspeakable horrors and genocides and things like that accomplish extraordinary things. And then we've seen people who had difficult emotional backgrounds and otherwise safe things become monsters themselves. And human beings are fascinating, complex. I appreciated hearing when I was going through the 0809 downturn, I had a mentor who had me read a book. What is the what? It's a book. It's a terrific book about one of the Sudanese lost children and the extraordinary horrors that he went through. And I read the book and I went back. I'm like, why'd you have me read that book? He's like, well, why do you think? And I'm like, well, mostly I got like, my problems aren't that bad. Like, I'm worried about losing my house. But, you know, I'm not worried about my whole village being burned or my friends being shot or things like that. And it was a good reminder as I dealt with some very first world problems in that time frame. And I think all of us go through things at different points. You know, there's not a week that goes by that one of my clients isn't dealing with some kind of a challenge or another, a personal one or a personal one with their executives or somebody's personal thing interacting with. You know, there's not this stop to like my personal life, my business life. There's no clean separation for human beings. We walk into work with our struggling relationships or a problem with a sibling or a child, and then we go home carrying the brain breakdown that we had or having been fired or any range of things like that. Our lives are a continuum and our worlds are complex. And I think a lot of times people like, oh, I don't want to talk about that in this setting. I think there's not a lot of permission to talk about. And then if you don't have access to your story, if you can't talk about things, you bottle it up, you compartmentalize it, and then you're left with less than what of a human being interacting with the world. Right.

You know, Bill, that, that last statement you said, there could not be more accurate in the fact that I struggled mightily with identity. And what I mean by that is, you know, everyone celebrates or when they read the book, they, they see, wow, how did JT go from lowest paid person to president of a software company in three years? How is JT now the CEO of a publishing company? And he's got no college degree and he barely, barely finished high school. And for me, I very much have to say this, I struggled mightily with relationships. I was a monster. I had no role model of how do you have a relationship, relationship. How do you conduct yourself in a relationship? I had no clue how. And then the other part where I struggled with identity, to your point of compartmentalizing is I had this belief of no one would ever believe in a mixed race kid. Guy whose father was a pimp, mother was an orphan, barely has a high school diploma, diploma. So there are so many ways why I went by J.T. mcCormick, why I allowed people to believe I had an MBA, why I allowed people to assume I had a degree. Because all I ever wanted to be judged on was my character and my work ethic. If you could just see clear of those two things. I knew I could outwork everyone and I knew I could prove that, that I belong. But I needed people to get past what my past was. And until I did my book, I lived In a very compartmental life where I was not 100% transparent and true to myself.

In the book Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Pat Lencioni, one of the first things that we learn is that the foundation or the base of healthy teams is an environment of trust. And trust we're talking about here is really openness. I trust you enough that I can share with you who I really am, what I really think. Our meetings are filled with interactions where I really speak my mind. I don't keep it covertly and share it with the one person I trust later on, or text it to somebody on the other side of the room or wait till I see a moment to undermine you later. If I disagree, I speak my mind at that moment. Part of the way we do that is by inviting people just to share their story, the highs and the lows. Not the whole narrative necessarily, but the things that they don't normally reveal. We do that. People are usually blown away. So we'll chart out our life from birth to the present moment, and we'll look at the high and low points, and then we'll encourage people to do that. How the coach does it, how the CEO does it, or whoever starts the exercise makes a massive difference in the level of permission and openness that that occurs. So I'll start off and I'll talk about, you know, how I was really happy and I was born in la, and then we lived in Hawaii, and that was all really great. And then we moved to Europe, and that was a shock because, like, we sold all the material possessions and we moved a family of five into a camper van in 1971. And so it was really shocking, right? And then. But then it became kind of an adventure. So then we got high, right? And you begin to get a picture of that. And then. And then I talk about how the parents began to fight. And I noticed that a little bit. But When I was 15, my parents divorced. And at first I thought it was a good thing, but my mom took a of years, couple, couple of kids, and our family didn't really speak to each other anymore except through court proceedings and things like that. And then I spent the next 20 years hating my mom for breaking up our family.

Wow. Yeah.

20 years, right? And. And then, you know, one day, I've. Since I have a great relationship with my mom today, but that's 20 years. And that had a massive impact on my relationship with women in general and my wife and my daughter and everything. And then when I repaired it, something new but opened up and was possible, but I can continue to, you know, examine that. So that's a little bit of it. And then, you know, my dad was my hero growing up. My dad was like. My dad was a professor of linguistics. He was an entrepreneur. He was not a monster in the sense or the, you know, in any obvious way. But in 2005, you know, when I'm an adult, my dad's life began to unravel. And this character that he was, for me growing up was actually bipolar, and he became an alcoholic, and his life began to decline. And in 2008, my dad took his own life, and I had to deal with that and my family and my business, all of that kind of thing. And our entrepreneurs, the people, our listeners here, the people that we deal with all the time, deal with all kinds of stuff like that. And there's not a week that goes by that I don't have somebody going through that. And I want to give people permission to sort of embrace it all. Especially as leaders of businesses, we have real challenges in our life, and you need some help to deal with all of them, large and small. And so, you know, you know, whether it's a coach or a psychologist or a peer group, like a forum in YPO or EO or some kind of therapy or something, I mean, it's. They're not all psychological in nature, but there's a great deal of stuff that. That impacts our overall wellness. That's. But that needs support, needs help in dealing with day to day. And I think it's really important to do them. And it starts with beginning to tell your story. And then, of course, as you really well illustrate here, when you overcome, when you transform, when you move through the spaces, when you're able to tell it all, you integrate the whole thing. You become a more powerful, effective whole human being. And a world of new possibility is available to us, right?

Oh, totally, Totally. Since we've done the book, and there's one out of the entire book, there's one page that stands out for me the most, and it says, my name is Javon Thomas McCormick. I am half black, half white. I have no college degree. I barely have a high school diploma. And it just goes through. This is where I come from. This is me. And. And it's accepting it, embracing it, and just understanding. Okay, it's where I come from, but it's not who I am. And I know so many people talk about the journey, but it's one step in the journey for me. And I find the irony that I did this book at age 45 because I have a whole second half, half of life to live. And this first half, there's the book, there's what I am, my flaws, everything that I've done, accomplished, so on and so forth. But it is what it is.

Powerful. So look, we've all got a story in us. Get to know your story. You become a more whole, more powerful, effective human being. In the process, create room for all your people to know and own their whole story. J.T. mcCormick, President CEO of Book in a Box Number two best company to Work for in Austin. His book is I Got How I Overcame Racism, Poverty and Abuse to Achieve the American Dream. As always, our Scaling Up Podcast brings stories of entrepreneurs, thought leaders, other coaches and their successes every week. And we thank you so much for finding us. If you want to find the notes and links to JT and his company and so on, you'll go to scalingupbusiness.com and go to the podcast and blog page and we've got these and others there. You can subscribe to us on itunes and anywhere else that you find your podcast. Every week we come out with a new podcast and some new story that hopefully is helpful in growing your business. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show and thanks to all our listeners.

Thanks Bill. Take care.

Foreign.

Are you ready to turn your goals into daily wins? You should check out our Scoreboard software. Powered by Align, it's the official software for scaling up. With Scoreboard, you'll get an AI driven coach for priorities and KPIs and it'll help keep your team focused on what matters most. With Align, you can track your goals in real time and you'll even see results on the go. With their mobile app, you can rest easy knowing that Align has world class onboarding and support to set your team up for success. This is really more than just software, it's what I actually use to manage growth in our Scaling up client teams. Unlock clarity and results with Scoreboard by Align. To try it now, go to aligntoday.com Bill G One more time. Aligntoday.com Bill G that's aligntoday.com Bill G Check it out and try it now.