079: Robert Glazer - Is Your Growth Holistic Enough?

Are you thinking about how to grow your business with near and offshore staffing, but you're also wanting to make sure that it's reliable, cost effective and really well done. I think docsa talent is the way to go. Here's why. They don't just fill your jobs. They bring integrity, top talent, and a people first approach that's hard to find. I've known the people at Doxa talent for over 20 years now and I say that you can count on them. I have. Talk to docs of Talent and you won't be disappointed. Go to docsatant.com Bill G. Again, that's doxatallent.com Bill G. One more time. Doxatallent.com bill G. Check it out today. One of the most neglected things that we see in companies scaling up is a holistic program of growth and development for the people on the team. In the beginning of a company, there's lots of attention paid on developing job training programs, getting job scorecards in place, figuring out what to do to help people learn to do their job, what are the jobs, and so on. But missing even as companies get up through a half a billion is often a broad program of holistic growth and development for both the leaders on the team and the larger teams. It makes an enormous difference. And today's show is all about the difference it makes and what it looks like and what it takes to develop yourself and your team more holistically than just more job training. So that's what it's all about. Listen in. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host, Gazelle's business growth coach, Bill Gallagher. Hey, I want to welcome to the show today Robert Glaser. So Robert is a guy, I guess. I first met him in the entrepreneur's organization, the EO organization, a few years ago. I served on the Eastern Regional Council and you were involved in that and in developing the Nerve conference there. I led a little session for our accelerator leaders there and it was super fun and super big. I've since stolen ideas from that to do with our regional conference out west where I am. Rob is an entrepreneur. He's the CEO of Acceleration Partners. They're a performance marketing firm and is the creator of something called Friday Forward. He's a terrific speaker. He's a mensch. He's a good human being. He's from the Boston area and really welcome to the show, Robert.

Thanks, Bill. Excited to be here.

Yeah. You're going to tell us about this idea. We're looking into what it is to develop your team and yourself beyond the skills of a particular job and what that means, the impact of that. Before we get into the real meat of that, let's talk about the motivation or how you came to be in that. Tell us how you arrive in this area.

Yeah, I think there's probably two paths. I think one is as I have evolved in my career and up the age ladder, I sort of went through a process of figuring out what was my sort of purpose and values. And I think a lot of people have gone through this process. Then they look back on their life and say, hey, this was consistent all the way along and trying to get in alignment. And so I've always tried to figure out a way to make things better. Since I was a little kid, my mom would joke around that she'd ask me to clean my room and I'd rearrange my room. And there's a familiar entrepreneurial story that when you're not conforming as a kid, you're getting a lot of signals from society that you're doing the wrong thing and from your teachers and otherwise. So I struggled a bit and I think it wasn't until my late twenties that I spent some time trying to make things better for other people, growing their businesses and found that that wasn't a great solution otherwise. So I finally kind of always was an entrepreneur. My risk profile got more comfortable with that and really started to al myself around the notion of how to do things better and how to put myself in situations where I could improve both myself and others. And combining that with running a high growth company, what I came to learn and talking to a lot of people is that you break a lot of people along that path. And if you're growing 30 or 40% a year, most people can't keep up with that. So you keep having issues where this person was great and now they don't work anymore and you're shifting them out. And I really wanted to find a way to break that cycle and figure out how we would find and grow people with our business and then how to align my sort of passions and goals around that. So that particularly for me in the last five years, I think it has been an exercise of alignment and getting out of everything that's not the right fit in my life. And trying across personal family, I make the same contributions for my family that I make for my business, that I make for myself. It's the stuff that I'm just naturally at and that and that brings me energy. So I think in Some ways it was figuring out who I was probably all along. I recently looked at this report card that my first preschool teacher wrote when I was five years old. And if you switched out some names and pick up sticks for content marketing, you could have swapped it for some 360 that someone would have written about me last week. And then also just the realities of trying to grow a, a high growth business and bring people along on that journey.

I think it's really interesting to see that childhood connection. So many of these patterns and things we developed very early on. People wonder why I always probe into your interaction with your parents or your siblings and people like that. All those early relationships are how you relate to the men and women in your life today, to authority figures, that kind of thing. They all start, started as little kids and you just kept building on what you were good at and how you survived, how you made it, how you avoided failing.

Yeah, I have two parents that had basically one job each for their entire career and three kids who all run their own businesses. So it's a very interesting and I think that has a lot to do with the independence that they fostered in each of us. But it is funny how that sort of works out.

You know, we spent an astonishing amount of money on our kids private school education going through almost exclusively. They went to private schools and my parents were both educators. My wife felt like she should have been better educated. And so we both had this mindset of like we really want to give them the best things. And I went to some interesting schools and a lot of schools. So anyway, this approach. Well, my son goes off to college in one semester. He drops out. He drops out because they're not willing to move fast enough. Now mind you, he's already in a very specialized program that lets you sort of design your own degree and even take grad level courses right away. But he doesn't like his advisor, he wants to go, so he drops out to do AI research and development and then dabble in blockchain stuff. Mike, well, his housemates, his co workers are all PhDs or PhD candidates. I'm like, I can't really complain. He's doing what he loves. And then my daughter is like, I think I'm going to take a gap year. And then she goes on, she's a photographer, artist, designer kind of person. She gets picked up and goes on a national tour with a rising rap artist. And both of them have gone this non tradition. We're like, wait a minute, you're supposed to go to college and really Enjoy the next four years. But we keep reminding ourselves that we've not lived traditionally, so we can't really expect that of others. But this notion of continual improvement, development, like growth beyond the specific tactical things that you do every day is something. It sounds like that you began in this early on, like in. In cleaning a room, whatever. Right. Like just your approach to things was how could I tweak it? How could I make it better?

Yeah, I was always messing with it, testing the cause and effect. I remember. I don't think I ever told this story. I mean, I remember taking video games apart and attaching a plug to it and saying, well, what would happen if I plugged it? I took two electrical thing, I didn't really know that much and took it to the 9 volt battery and plugged it in. The whole thing exploded in my room. Yeah, don't do this. Started a fire. Don't do that at all. It's interesting you bring up the education thing because I think that's probably true for a lot of entrepreneurs. I was bored in school, I didn't do well in school and I misconstrued. You know, I had a love of learning, but it just wasn't fed in the right places. And not until later because early on it's like, look, take the core, do a little bit of everything. And you know, I've come to learn I had ADD and I just. It just didn't interest me. And so you start to think, well, I'm not smart or do all this stuff versus I think the most important thing I think about for my kids is how. And their teachers are actually very focused on this, which I'm impressed. There's a lot of focus actually on the growth mindset curriculum in our public school system. But how do I. One of their history teachers said, how do I. They're not going to remember stuff in this class and they can Google it. I want them to remember that they loved learning history. I thought of my history teacher as history. You know, this guy was 26 and fun. My history teacher was history. But I. That that is what I want from my kids. I think we all have different makeups and it's like, how can you find something that you're passionate about so that you want to learn and play with it more? And you know, my love of learning is definitely around certain topics and subjects. If you put me in certain things, it just doesn't me and I don't want to go. Go deeper in it. So once I once I. Once you figure that out, though, I think you figure out your base, you're actually interested in learning more other things because you figure out how that interacts with your base. But when you don't know what your base is, you're not excited to learn about that stuff. I mean, had someone sort of said to me, hey, this is what entrepreneurship and business and marketing and all this stuff looks, I mean, I would have been full bore into that at 10 or 20. I was always making catalogs and all kinds of stuff. But in the traditional system, there's no one to call out and say, hey, that's a thing. And by the way, there's a lot more jobs probably in that than a lot of the stuff we're teaching you.

So I think this is really interesting. I had a mentor many years ago, and I was CEO of another company, and I was frustrated with some of the people who didn't seem to be wanting to work on themselves and their own growth and development. And I was complaining to my mentor about this, and he said to me, he's like, look, look, that woman does a phenomenal job with your accounts receivable. She's not interested in her growth and development. Right? And your company values aren't about growth and development. Let her do her damn job. Go do your own workshops. I would say overall, many of our companies do have some value around growth, and there is value. And many people have an area or an aspect that they're interested in their growth and development. And certainly one of our values today, I think it's number three in my. If I count them right. In our company, values are never finished, is the value.

Right?

And it means just always being, growing and evolving until the day you die. And I have a picture to represent that. It's a picture of this guy, Jack lalanne. Do you know who Jack lalanne is?

Yeah, Right.

So Jack lalanne's this guy. He'd, like, pull a boat swimming from Alcatraz. I've done the alcatraz swim like 10 times, which I think is amazing, but I didn't pull a boat with my teeth while doing it. I don't know if that's accurate to him or not, but he would do just crazy stuff into his 80s, right? And so that's my image. So it is part of my thing today. And I do think that when companies that our audience, right, the companies that are trying to scale up, they're trying to grow, if they want to be along for the ride, they've got to develop themselves and their leadership team along the way. Because if they just focus on the strategies and tactics, it's sort of their own leadership ends up being the lid on things. They want to do things the same way. I had this really clearly just in the last year. I had a CEO of a very large company and this guy's approach to his own leadership and the way he led his team was plateaued. And although we were bringing the scaling up framework to his team and all that, he wasn't willing to change. So he would derail the way that we were running meetings and things like that. And he wasn't a bad guy.

Just as like, there's two choices, right? You self identify as the 0 to 5 guy or girl or the 5 to 10 or the 10 to 20 and you, and you're aware and you keep revolving or you declare that this is going to be my thing and I need to learn. I, I would not have been qualified four years to be leading the company that we're running today. And I think, you know, what gets me out of bed every morning is frankly being scared to death of not being qualified to run my own business. So that is, that is the motivating factor. Because I, because I want to be that person. I think some people don't. And it's fine if, you know, Tucker, Tucker Max, we work with him booking a Bach. He wrote a lot about last year about how he fired himself. He just wasn't good at any of that stuff. He didn't want to do it. He freed himself up. So I always say that every business is two businesses. You have the product of the business and the business of the business. While I love our product, I really love the business of the business. A lot of founders don't. So I've seen this in creative companies, whether it's jewelry or otherwise. There's a hot product and they can grow on that to 5 or 10 million. But there's 50% turnover. No one cares about accounting. No one looks at, you know, anything. But the product is not given any attention by the founder. And I'm sure you've seen how that ends up, you know, eventually, then they're just choking on the growth because no one's focused on the business. So it's interesting in our industry, people come and want to talk to me about the product and the product. I'm very knowledgeable about the product, but I spend 90% of my time on the business of the business and the business of people right now.

The team dynamic, the quality of the leadership. You know, if you look at, and depending on for our listeners, you're at some stage of growth. You've maybe been through some stages. In the beginning, you've got to influence customers, you've got to influence some suppliers. Pretty soon you have to influence a circle of people around you. Those are very early stages. Then you start to have some managers, but you're still very visible to the larger team, even through maybe 100 people. As you start to go through 100 people, though, you start to have to build leaders who lead through others and do that. Depending on the way you're organized, that could show up earlier or later. And then as you cross through 500 people and you have multiple locations and so on, you've got to create people who are leading and leading through others. You've got to be a different kind of leader influencing differently than you do in the beginning. You can't simply be the guy who hires and fires everyone. Right. You've got to be more about that message and the values.

Yeah. There's an analogy in the book the Hard Things About Hard Things, where he talks about going from the player to the base coach to the guy in the dugout to the GM and how each one of these things was completely different. Yeah. I have to get a lot of people now to expect higher things of themselves and switch from doers to team builders. And I think that's one of the hardest things for an organization. That's where a lot of people don't make it is what happens when there aren't. It's all doer roles. From 0 to 5 million. You value firefighting and multitasking. I think one of the hardest things for a company and one of the things that I'll eventually write about in the book, because I just had the discussion 100 times, is then from 5 to 10, you don't value that stuff or you want to stop value now you want, hey, what can I hold you accountable to? And where are you going to be an all Star? It's very hard for people where the organization is rewarded that for years because they say, well, I do a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And then it's a very hard transition because you say, that's great, but I want to know where you're going to hit.350 and where I can say you're playing good first base or not first base. What you actually value at one stage, this is where your core value is even. Sometime we actually tweaked it a little bit because I think what we valued early on and the Scrappiness and the firefighters. I don't want firefighters at 5 to 15 million. I want strategic forest planners, not firefighters. But the people who just got so much reward for their firefighting have a hard time making that transition.

Right. So there's a different culture, different environment. I actually think so. I know a guy who's also applied our work and so on. We've had him on in the past who's got hundreds of millions of dollars in sales and he's got four employees. The stages and the nature of the leadership in an organization like that, depending on the industry you're in and what you're doing, you may find that it's less tied to the revenue than it is the number of people. And we often have a like, well, a $5 million business is going to be like 15 people and. But yeah, when you change a lot.

Of distributorships and stuff, I think if you're talking about a services, they follow general parameters. But yeah, you can distribute $10 million machines and have a few people. So it does vary dramatically.

So you started to get involved in your own development and then you started to develop a blog or an email list and talk about the evolution of that, the work that you were doing and. And its impact on your own team and then on your larger world.

Yeah. So two things happened. I was in EO's Leadership Academy program which is a pretty intense leadership training focuses on and Warren Rustin talks a lot about morning routine. And then I read this book Miracle Morning that a lot of people suggested as well. And I started really redesigning my morning.

And how to not so pause there for one second. Right. Because you're referencing a whole bunch of stuff I want to. So organization, EO Entrepreneurs Organization is also like ypo, Young Presidents Organization. There are other groups out there that we reach out to Vistage and so on. But there's a leadership academy run in the EO organization and Warren leads it. And there's a shift that happens in that where people learn to be a leader of influence instead of just authority based leadership. Now it's great to have authority. Right. But very Machiavellian. But if you can lead with. If you could inspire people and transfer values and engage them in mission and be of service to them as the leader fulfilling a role. That's a different. That's a shift that's pretty powerful. Right? That's the.

Yeah. And it's, you know, one of the. I was just back for a class working on it and the presentation I gave was I showed sort of a Patchwork coat. And I said, you know, but I thought I was a good leader before I came to this. I was sort of picking, hey, Bill's like this and Steve's like this and Mary and I love all these things. And, and that's my sort of leadership style, I think what. That's what that talk about alignment before with what that program really focuses on. Who are you? What do you want? How do you just lead authentically, you know, from. From who you are and aligning and everything from that. And so two things came, came out of that. One was focusing on the morning. That's one of the functional things. And I read this part book, the Miracle Morning, and started getting up early and being proactive. And I realized that one of the key things we do in that program is we read something positive. Don't turn. If you turn on the news, it's the worst thing you can do in the morning. I mean, if I turn on this morning, what do I read about? I read about Matt Lauer getting fired and nuclear bombs in North Korea. This is not a great way to start the day. So I started with reading and journaling and then reading something positive. Well, part of reading something positive was I collected these stories or I'd find them or a quote. And I ran through one of the books I was. And I didn't love them. So I started finding this stuff. And as I found this stuff, I decided, you know what, I'm going to put this together. Daily would be too much. I'll send an email to the team. It was called Friday Inspiration every Friday. And I'll send them just a little note, something to think about, something positive yet challenging in a lot of cases. And I'll include a quote or a story. And they started like a paragraph. So we probably had 20 or 30 people at the time. Started sending them out each week. I didn't even know if anyone was reading them. And then within a few months, I started to get a lot of emails. I love this. I look forward to it every week. I sent it to my friends, I sent it to my family. How could they sign up? Then I decided that maybe I would send it to some people outside the company because maybe it would have some value to them and some other EO members and encourage them to do the same thing and send it to their team. And then it started just getting bigger and I added some people to the list. And two years later, it's up to almost 30,000 people globally. It was just an email. I ended up setting up the Website as an archive. And as I went along in this, and this is where it comes back to, I think all the core purpose. It said, look, why am I doing this? This is a big time commitment. Does this have any commercial value? I don't know. But I said, this is just very aligned to my core values. This is about being better, putting it out there, encouraging people, inspiring them, challenging them at the same time. And so that's going to be a good use of my energy. And what's come out of that is just a tremendous amount of opportunities for business for my employees. People started running races or tell me they signed up for this or when. And I remember one week I wrote about not burning bridges and someone I don't know wrote me this note about how she had burned this bridge and went and unburned it with an old friend that weekend. And so I just, I started getting these emails every week and people telling me the actual changes and the impact they were doing that. I said, look, I just keep going with this. It seems to, it seems to make a difference both inside the company and outside the company. And it's created a real halo effect for us as a business. Again, I think if you just add value, you know, people want to do, there's no commercial aspect to it at all, but people want to work with us or people come up and say, you know, I like what your company stands for. But it was just, it was easy for me to do because it was aligned. And I think it was hard for even some people on my team to understand why I was spending so much time on this. But I was like, look, this is one of the things I was meant to do, so I'm just going to do it.

I think that's, especially as an entrepreneur, sometimes it's good to recognize, look, this is in my bones. I've got to do this. This is who I am. There's a self expression here that's wanting to be realized. Tell us about the impact on the team. What are the areas that people have taken? What have people done to develop themselves? What's it been like within your business?

Yeah, so, you know, I'll roll back and I'll say that we all talk about the comfort zone and it just seems like getting out of your comfort, it just always seems like this trite thing. But it really, one of the things I've seen with my kids is, is if you've ever done any little kids, you do these adventure courses with them and there's all this new technology on these ropes Courses where they control it and snip themselves in. And there's two things, things they can't get stuck. And I, you know, I watched my kids, the same thing, go through these things, not think that they could do it, do it, and then have a huge degree of confidence afterwards. They all go to overnight camp. All these camps really push trying stuff in a safe environment, getting out of your comfort zone. My daughter, who was, was so nervous about swimming before she went to camp, we gave her lessons all that week because she had a test. Then we get a letter in the mail that she's the youngest kid ever to swim the lake, swim and back. We really thought they were talking, talking about the wrong kid, but she had just become comfortable with that stuff. So I think there was two aspects. People started doing stuff they hadn't done before and when they just run a 5K or have a difficult conversation or start doing that stuff, I think their, their confidence and their willingness to challenge their around stuff grows. And then two is training. We started training on managing our energy and prioritization and how to, how to, how to, you know, think about long term planning and goal setting and all this stuff. And we also functionally train. But what I started to see was people doing things they had never done before in their personal life and that translating into their professional life and willing to take risks and take chances and have confidence around that. So we have a lot of, we're very focused on knowing, we did a whole thing this year around knowing people's personal goals, knowing what they want to achieve and using, say, look, use this as a vehicle, this job as a vehicle to get what you want out of life in total. Because I'm sure you've seen this. I mean, my example is always, have you ever had someone who's stressed, exhausted, money problems personally, and they're killing it at work? It's just not the case. I mean, people are the same. So I think if they're out of.

Control, there's not a clear separation. Right. Like if you're having relationship, family problems, other personal problems, you come into work, in some cases it's a nice escape, but you really do bring it with you. You are trying to escape, you're trying to avoid it, but it's in the background, it's coloring what you're doing.

Yeah. The thing about prioritization, right, Someone who can't prioritize at work is probably making those same mistakes at home. So if we teach them how to prioritize at work now, they go home, they get Much better at what I need to do, what I need to not do. And now they don't feel as stressed and as unaccomplished, and suddenly the two hours they had at home is more meaningful than the two hours before. So we have just seen this halo effect. And I like to say I think it has had a better business outcome, but it's had a better humanitarian outcome. And I say to people, look, if I'm trying to convince a CEO to do this and spend time on really developing their people as people, I can give you the altruistic argument and I can give you the economic argument. Which one do you want? Because they're both valid. I. But we've seen a higher return on that sort of training and that path, which is you have to inspire, but you have to challenge. I think if you think about Kim Scott and radical candor and all of these things, this is not rainbows and unicorns. I mean, to do a lot of this stuff, it is honest about what it takes and getting the feedback, and it's not, hey, you can do it. Chicken soup for the soul. This is. Is getting people to think really reflectively around, are they actually doing what they're capable of doing? And I think the answer for most of us is we're not.

Well, is there a limit to what you're capable of doing if you're reaching and growing and developing? I remember my first triathlon. I remember my first promotion. I remember any number of these things. And in each stage, it looked. The next stage looked insurmountable, right? And, oh, my God. But then you engage it and you struggle and you fail for a bit at something, and pretty soon. And then after a while, it becomes easy and you start to develop mastery in something. If you stick at it, right, you.

Have to want it, right? No one can want it for you. So you have to. That's the sort of inspiration, is that you have to want it if you want that, and you have a burning desire to get it. But that's where I think that the obstacle isn't. You will overcome whatever is in the way.

But everybody wants something, right? We all want something at some point. And you have to actually be interested in knowing what your people want, knowing what you want, being curious about it, about yourself and others in order to do that. What do you say to our skeptics who are like, yeah, I don't have time for that. I'm busy. I'm putting out fires. I'm making money here, here.

Cognitive dissonance. I don't know, it's just, it's easy, it's easier not to do it. Look, if you want to have better relationships with your employees, if I showed them some of the letters that I've gotten from my employees and some of this saying, look, some of our best employees who are performing really well saying, what we're doing here has changed my life. I don't know who would feel better about that as a contribution. And I think had this discussion with a lot of people and I'm sure you've seen this, but the type of organization that is going to be successful in the future is going to be very different than the past. We have these flexible organizations. You have tons of contract work. You can build your own job. So an authoritarian culture that's very about the founder and doing what benefits the founder without transparency. I don't know that that's a recipe for success in the future. I think it worked in the past and I think it's really hard to build an organization that way right now.

It's harder and harder. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think that we've covered a lot of things like that. I just want to underscore a couple points. So there's a real value or takeaway that you can see both in the engagement, the satisfaction and the quality of work that you get when you focus on people not just in their job role, but holistically developing themselves in some way and provide opportunities to do that. You can't really do that unless you're doing it for yourself as well. So what are you doing for yourself as a leader in the business, to develop yourself? And then how do you. There's nothing worse than somebody saying, oh, yeah, you guys should go work on this. But I'm going to keep doing the same old crap I ever did.

I always say as, do as I do as I say, not as I do. Never worked for me parenting wise. It doesn't work for me leading wise too. So I am constantly putting out new challenges. So every year at our summit, I actually review my goals for the year. I went over my vision board, what I said I was going to do, where I succeeded, where I fail. I pick something new every year. And I'm probably going to put in January my goals out publicly to the team. So I think actually in the family too, what I've seen, particularly in EO spouse relationships, and I'm sure you've made this mistake and seen this mistake. You know, people come back from EO and they go, oh, they're all excited. We got to do this, honey, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And they end up driving their spouse crazy versus just doing it right. So I come home and I start getting up early and I start writing in a journal every day and I start running a marathon. And suddenly my kids are curious about this and my wife is curious about this. So a lot of it is, is it's what you say, but what people visibly see you doing. They see me constantly going to training, constantly going to learning things and setting new goals for myself.

Yeah, if you just bring stuff, you go get enamored of something and then you bring it back and you throw it on your team, your family, whatever. In particular, our folks are looking at their teams here. They'll learn that they can not object, just pay some lip service, go through the motions, avoid attention, and then pretty soon you'll forget of about it. And there's a particular acronym that coach taught me years ago that your people have for this. It's Bohica. And that's bend over. Here it comes again. They're ready for you to dump some crap on and that they have to deal with. And then if they know, if they just sort of go through the motions, it'll go away. But then you'll go off to the next conference or workshop or class or whatever the heck you do or read a book, you'll be like, okay, we're going to do this now if you're not doing it and leading the way yourself with it. So I've had leaders ask me in teams, well, shouldn't we implement the daily huddle throughout the whole team, throughout our field teams first? I'm like, no, you should do it yourself first. If you're not willing to do a daily huddle and do it well, it's not going to go over with your teams. You've got to be willing to embrace dashboards and metrics and daily huddles and effect and all of that kind of stuff, or you will be the lid on the growth of the company.

Yeah, I started sending, you know, our COO general manager start going to some EO type events, YPO events, leaders, and starts coming back and he has all these ideas. It's very funny. The table, the table has turned. But I've. There's a couple of things with that. So I think right. When you lead by example, it just, it takes longer. But people notice, they start, hey, how did you. You're running this, you're doing this, you're writing a book. Like, what, what are you, what are you doing the other Thing with the team is I used to make this mistake. I think across all these organizations there's people who learn to hide the day that the founder comes back from these events, right? Because they come back like, oh, we should. I mean, my approach is to actually not do that. Now, after many failures, come back. I might sit down with my finance person a couple days later and say, I saw this finance guy and I mean he had this concept that was incredible. I actually, I tracked down the video. Watch it, let me know what you think. I'll call the guy. Whether it's $500, let me have you talk to him for an hour. Because I think this is actually going to help you. And so now they watch it, they get excited about it, they get buy in versus I was coming back and just kind of trying to tell. So I actually tried to bring whatever that thing is to the person and have them get a vested interest in it directly rather than me telling them that it's good. And that has worked a lot better for me and for them I think too.

So I hope that got you thinking about the growth and development of yourself, your leadership and your whole team in a more holistic fashion than simply job specific training. If you'd like to read more of Robert Glaser's blog, you'll go to fridayforward fridayfwd.com and you'll see some of the things that he talks about that he uses to develop himself and his team on a regular basis. You can get that every Friday. You can find us every week in the podcast. Go to itunes, stitcher, wherever you get your podcasts and find us there. Subscribe like, share, etc. That's all really groovy and we love your comments, your feedback, your reviews are super helpful to us, but if we can be help to you, it's through the growth kit and the tools, the things that we have available on our website@scalingupbusiness.com you'll find a free growth kit there that you can go ahead and download. It's got how to run an agenda for an off site planning and strategy session with your team. It's got tools and worksheets to help you do that, sample agenda instructions, and an introduction to the Scaling up framework to give you an overview of the things that we do to help companies successfully grow and navigate the journey of successfully scaling up a company. I hope that's helped. Helpful. Find us@scalingupbusiness.com thanks again. We'll talk to you next week. Are you ready to turn your goals into daily wins. You should check out our Scoreboard software powered by Align. It's the official software for scaling up. With Scoreboard, you'll get an AI driven coach for priorities and KPIs and it'll help keep your team focused on what matters most. With Align, you can track your goals in real time and you'll even see results on the go. With their mobile app, you can rest easy knowing that Align has world class onboarding and support to set your team up for success. This is really more than just software, it's what I actually use to manage growth in our scaling up client teams. Unlock clarity and results with Scoreboard by Align. To try it now, go to aligntoday.com Bill G One more time. Aligntoday.com Bill G that's aligntoday.com BillG Check it out and try it now.